Finding other swingers who have herpes...

[Guest herpescpl]

How do you find other couples who like to swing that have the herpes virus? I can't believe that no swingers have the virus, since 1 out of every 4 adults in the United States have herpes according to some major health organizations. Please respond!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I'm sure you are right that there are plenty of swinging couples with herpes. At one time I saw a webring for swingers with herpes (I'm looking for it again now to provide the link).

 

I think what it might be is that either:

 

a) those who have herpes won't admit to it and just swing when they aren't showing symptoms (since supposedly you can't spread herpes when you aren't showing symptoms)

 

or

 

b)Those with herpes just don't advertise for fear that their honesty would drive others who don't have herpes to berate them.

 

Personally, I say just be honest about who you are and what you are dealing with, there are others out there and they will find you if you let them know you are there.

 

Yahoo's webrings are down at the moment so I can't find that ring... but when I do come across it again I'll post the link.

[cplapsry 18]

herpescpl said:

How do you find other couples who like to swing that have the herpes virus? I can't believe that no swingers have the virus, since 1 out of every 4 adults in the United States have herpes according to some major health organizations. Please respond!

 

There are many herpes related sites and I have looked for most of them. We have herpes too.

[adventureUS2 25]

You would be surprised to find that most people who have herpes don't know they have it. It is hard not to notice a genital out break. But most people believe the out breaks around their mouth is a cold soar or a fever blister.

[eagerbeaver 15]

I agree with the above post. I am a nurse and lots of women harbor the virus in the vaginal wall or on the cervix and outword signs are never present. Some people with the virus have symptoms a few days prior to an eruption of the sores-these can be as simple at being tired, sore throat, head ache, joint pain, ect. Herpes virus lies on the nerves in the body. I have had patients tell me that they know they are going to have a break out because their heal of their foot hurts or their hands are sensitive. Most people that have lived with herpes are in tune with their body's symptoms prior to a break out. Just remember, Herpes can be transmitted prior to the pustule appearence. Let me put it to you this way, Chicken Pox is a form of Herpes. People (children) are infectious 24 hours prior to any appearance of pox. The same goes for herpes. The best bet is...ALWAYS use condoms.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

adventureUS2 said:

You would be surprised to find that most people who have herpes don't know they have it. It is hard not to notice a genital out break. But most people believe the out breaks around their mouth is a cold soar or a fever blister.

 

Many people who carry genital Herpes never actually have any physical outbreaks. They can pass it on to others without ever knowing they have it.

 

You are right too about those who have oral herpes, by giving oral sex with an oral herpes outbreak (cold sore) you can be giving someone genital herpes.

[luvinit 30]

I contracted herpes from a FMF with a couple that had been married 25 years and I totally trusted were STD free. It took about 18 months before my husband got it from me. We just recently had same room sex with another couple with some FF touching and we thought they would run the other way when we told them we had herpes, turns out they have it too. You never know who is a swinger and who has herpes. We just lucked out that a couple that was already friends of ours were both. If I was going to put up an ad I would state that we have herpes right up front. We posted an ad before and the first couple that contacted us blocked us as soon as we emailed them that we had herpes. I was mortified and closed the ad. It was a whole year later before we found the couple we are swinging with now. It has been a long time coming but it was sooooooo worth the wait.

[shelliemn 15]

Very interesting reading...and one hell of a way to put a damper on a fantasy.

 

From time to time I read that scientists are working on a herpes vaccine. I wish they'd get it to the masses.

 

I worked with a woman once who told me about her herpes. It can be a very unpleasant experience.

 

And since most people who have herpes never have outbreaks, who knows, maybe we all have it now.

 

I think there's a blood test for herpes, but my doctor said there isn't last time I was tested for STDs. She told me that if I have herpes, I'll know it. Perhaps not, huh?

 

If it wasn't for herpes, I'd be out fucking like crazy! It's my favorite hobby

 

[tweedle 16]

Amen to that!!!

[wiscpl 22]

We were recently contacted by a couple through SLS in which they mentioned through their profile that they had genital herpes. We really appreciated that they were upfront and honest about their condition when they described themselves but unfortunately had to turn them down. In our profile we mention we are STD free and play safe so we stay that way. We are sure they are a great couple and are probable missing out but this is the one thing we are afraid of most when we decided to enter this lifestyle. We hope everyone is as open and honest as they are when they aproach someone.

[luvinit 30]

If I had it to do all over again I wouldnt believe anyone that says they are STD free. The couple I was with had been married for 25 years, were not swingers and were good friends of mine, turns out she knew she had it just didnt like to think about it, or thought she was cured. Some people are just in denial. I would play like everyone has it!

[Guest ncdragonpair]

Mpwh.net has a "seeking couples" tag you can designate yourself as, but I think they have some stupid rule about not having anyone else in your photo. Which makes no sense. I am not a paid member so I couldn't tell you much. They don't offer lifetime anymore, and monthly drafts on the ideal we'll find anyone locally off there isn't appealing. Some of the free herpes dating sites have tags for couples seeking, and alternate relationships, but we've not heard much from them. It's a very stale environment to search in. There will be activity, then nothing, for weeks. Good luck everyone who needs it.

[SnowWolf 15]

it was this way in my case. I knew I had Herpies 1 which are the cold sores but didn't know until a little while ago that I also had Herpies 2. Even though I never did have a break out in my genital area. My X had a blood test and they found it in there test. I got tested and found out I have it as well.

[rduelist 15]

We prominently mention in all our adds that we have Herpes. My wife takes medication, so rarely has outbreaks. I essentially never have outbreaks any more. From what I read however transmission is possible even if you dont know you are having a mild outbreak. Essentially you should simply know that no matter how hard they may try to ignore it or if they simply dont know, about 20% of the people in the country have genital herpes. If you think about this the probability of being exposed is fairly high. I often see people claim that swingers are somehow less likely to transmit this and other diseases. That is wishful thinking at best. In some ways you are almost safer knowing that your potential partner is honest than hoping that they are. Somehow we always seem to think that the high class, good looking, hot couples must be safe, and that those with a disease must be somehow dirty and low class. It doesnt work that way.

 

The Yahoo site has been good for us -- we have met several couples there and have been quite lucky in that they were all great people. As others have said I think that absolute honesty is the way to go - we have met many others who have the disease, and even a few who dont, and as long as everyone knows whats up its cool.

[OttawaCuple 15]

MrOttawaCuple & I are not yet active swingers, although we are discussing the possibility.

 

We both have herpes.

 

When we met each other, neither of us knew cold sores could, thru oral sex, transmit the herpes virus to the labia. He'd had cold sores every winter since he was a kid and as far as he knows, had never transferred the virus to anyone. During his outbreaks, to protect me from getting cold sores, we wouldn't kiss, but being oblivious to the risk, we DID have oral sex.

 

Three months after we met, 2 weeks after having oral sex during a cold sore outbreak, I got a massive "Primary Outbreak" of genital herpes. I got one more minor outbreak 3 months later, and from then on, I get an "I'm not really sure, but I think it's an outbreak" outbreak about once a year.

 

About a month ago, a week after I "thought" I might have had an outbreak, MrOttawaCuple had his first genital outbreak which was also so minor that we weren't sure it wasn't just a pimple.

 

Having been on the receiving end of getting genital herpes unexpectedly, I know how devastating it is to find out you have it. I thought my sex life was over. Fortunately I now know that having herpes is most often not much different than getting pimples (or having the occasional cold sore) and, as long as your partner also has herpes, it really doesn't affect your sex life at all.

 

Our prime concern is to not spread the virus to anyone else, so if and when we start actively swinging, we will make sure any potential playmates know we carry the virus long before there's any sexual contact.

 

I'm sure there will be a lot of great couples who won't play with us, but I'm hoping there will also be some fantastic couples who happen to be HSV carriers too who will be thrilled to find a couple like us to play with.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan--Okay, here's a tough statistic about herpes: If ten people have the disease, two of them infected the other eight. Fifty percent of the time it is done knowingly. So, we're big fans of testing and 'meet and mate' is virtually off the menu. Condoms always.

[niceNHcouple 15]

We can relate. We have HPV(though my wife has never had a wart outbeak and me only 1) and when we tell people they treat us like we have the plague. We are very honest and tell them right up front. We have been with 1 couple a few times and had great fun. We always have condoms with us. We are becoming very discouraged as we cannot seem to find anyone else who'll give us a chance.

[OttawaCuple 15]

shelliemn said:

I think there's a blood test for herpes, but my doctor said there isn't last time I was tested for STDs. She told me that if I have herpes, I'll know it. Perhaps not, huh?

 

This is a quote from the U.S. Food & Drug Association website:

 

"There are currently two FDA-cleared blood tests that accurately determine if a person is infected with HSV-1 or HSV-2, the HerpeSelect ELISA Kits and the HerpeSelect Immunoblot Kit made Genital Herpes: A Hidden Epidemicby Focus Technologies of Herndon, Va."

 

Another quote from the site is:

 

"... most people with genital herpes don't know they have it, and are unaware they may be spreading it to others, says Warren. Many have no symptoms or mistake their symptoms for something else, such as jock itch, insect bites, hemorrhoids, yeast infections, razor burn, or allergies to laundry detergent."

[puddles 15]

(He speaks) I contracted Herpes in oral sex with then partner's cold sores. Passed it back to her, then it went away. Twice in 20 yrs it came back, in both cases I laid off sex with my then partners then used condoms for at least a week after it healed. Better safe than sorry. Somehow, I don't think it will ever come back twice with the same partner, but it's likely to reappear early in a relationship with a new partner - just like with thrush, once the immune system adjusts to the pH, natural bacterial fauna etc of a new partner the immune system seems able to suppress it. At least, that's been my experience. I don't actually consider it, in my case, or anyone I know with it, to be a serious illness; more of an inconvenience, preferable to toothache. It's the social aspect that sucks, and what it can do to your mind before you understand it is potentially more destructive than the disease itself (birth is a special case). But, different folks, different immunities.

 

My immunologist friend tells me H is normally passed on only in that active phase (24hrs before the pain there's a tingling, which one comes to recognize, because it's very site-specific) but some people are "shedders" that is to say in these unfortunates the virus is in normally shed skin cells and can be passed on at any time. You can be tested for shedding.

 

In my experience there's no such thing as a mild outbreak, and the pain pretty much rules out sex anyway. But in a swinging setting, use condoms (of course), and don't have sex if it's "out". Really, herpes should be the least of your worries.

 

It is well known that herpes thrives on the amino acid l-arginine and does not like l-lysine. Not so well known that Hepatitis C thrives on iron and does not like selenium and the amino acids l-methionine, l-cysteine, or NAC, but I thought I'd include that too.

[kenora_guy 16]

Don't have it, don't need it and don't want it...

[niceNHcouple 15]

Never say you don't have it at least where hPV is concerned.Most people that do have it don't even know they have it. How common is HPV?

 

Approximately 20 million people are currently infected with HPV. At least 50 percent of sexually active men and women acquire genital HPV infection at some point in their lives. By age 50, at least 80 percent of women will have acquired genital HPV infection. About 6.2 million Americans get a new genital HPV infection each year.

 

How do people get genital HPV infections?

 

The types of HPV that infect the genital area are spread primarily through genital contact. Most HPV infections have no signs or symptoms; therefore, most infected persons are unaware they are infected, yet they can transmit the virus to a sex partner.

[driveajeepnaked 26]

wiscpl said:

We were recently contacted by a couple through SLS in which they mentioned through their profile that they had genital herpes. We really appreciated that they were upfront and honest about their condition when they described themselves but unfortunately had to turn them down. In our profile we mention we are STD free and play safe so we stay that way. We are sure they are a great couple and are probable missing out but this is the one thing we are afraid of most when we decided to enter this lifestyle. We hope everyone is as open and honest as they are when they approach someone.

 

We recently had the same experience with a single female, and turned her down with explanation. She was very upfront and honest, mentioned it in the 2nd email to us...

 

Now, from looking at her certs, we see that she has played with persons in the very small and ever replicating local group... You have to understand that you can practically identify every swinger in this area just going through the certs... So, now we see that other couples that we have either met or chatted with, or hope to play with, are in the circle of certs that have had contact with the single female...

 

Relating to Spoo's recent post "Pushing the line..." regarding certs and communication... and the whole STD free ideal.. is the whole cert circle at risk of Herpes and would it be overly cautious to avoid those that we know have had exposure??

[imsnowman 34]

driveajeepnaked said:

Relating to Spoo's recent post "Pushing the line..." regarding certs and communication... and the whole STD free ideal.. is the whole cert circle at risk of Herpes and would it be overly cautious to avoid those that we know have had exposure??

 

The whole cert circle is "at risk". The risk is probably negligible if the people involved practiced safe sex. That doesn't mean only condoms. Reread the posts and do some searches for information on transmission. For instance, H-positives who use a daily valtrex suppression regime present a very small risk. We have played a lot over several days with H-positives and not had any problems.

 

Only you can decide if it's overly cautious. We would say that it is more risky to play with those in the circle who you think have been exposed but who don't know if they have it then it is to play with known positives and take appropriate precautions.

[Amanda69 24]

Quote

If I had it to do all over again I wouldn't believe anyone that says they are STD free.

 

Exactly and a perfect reason to play safe at all times.

 

And sorry we would not play with anyone who said they had Herpes. I would not and could not take the risk of infection for myself or my partner.

 

It is however, very important that couples or singles with the infection are honest and it is nice to see many here who say they are.

[kenora_guy 16]

niceNHcouple said:

"Never say you don't have it at least where hPV is concerned. Most people that do have it don't even know they have it.

 

Well since I was tested for the full spectrum of STD's in mid February, and have been only with my s/o since, unless she is messing around on me (which makes little sense since we have an open relationship) then I'm pretty sure I am hPV free...

 

 

imsnowman said:

The Republicans would never let it be created or produced. They've stopped production of an HPV vaccine and that causes cancer. Claims it would increase promiscuity among young people.

 

This makes me wonder with the antiviral drugs out there (current count is about 20 fda approved and a handful that are the approval process) why can't one of these be used for harpies. Some cannot because they are gene specific that is designed to fight a certain DNA sequence. Some are less specific and go after a broader spectrum that is related to a certain DNA. However, others are broad spectrum and go after viruses in general... Why couldn't the last group be used?

 

The answer is likely money... most antiviral meds are expensive and no insurance company is going volunteer to pay for what they would perceive as a 'small percentage' of the population who are not in monogamous relationships, dogging the neighborhoods spreading the disease...

[OttawaCuple 15]

HSV is NOT HPV. This thread was originally about herpes (HSV), but someone started talking about HPV and now the two acronyms are being thrown around as if they are the same thing.

 

HSV is Herpes Simplex Virus, AKA herpes, cold sores (when on the mouth) or genital herpes (when on the genitals).

 

HPV is Human Papillomavirus, AKA genital warts.

 

For good, accurate, complete and current information on these two related but very different infections, go to the herpes.org website.

[MC_alter 15]

My wife and are new to the lifestyle and we both carry genital herpes and HPV. At this point we have avoided having to out our issue by engaging in soft-swing only. We haven't had an outbreak of either in over a year at least, but while condoms are very effective in prevent STD spread when used properly, there is always that chance it might break, etc... We are trying to be responsible and the last thing we want to do is expose anyone, but alas, when push comes to shove, I know we need to suck it up and just be up front rather than feeling restrictive will keep people safe from spread.

 

Here's what I want to know: we have genital herpes but we both have never had a cold sore. I have heard mixed accounts of whether or not there are actually separate strains of oral and/or genital herpes or if they are all the same virus. Assuming we have the strictly genital variety, would it be possible that we could transmit the virus to someone orally to genitaly, and vice versa? I know that people with oral herpes can easily transmit to gental, as oral is often both oral and genital, but what if it is strictly genital? Is this the case, or is it that we both have been lucky enough to never have a cold sore? There seems to be little info out there on this scenario.

 

Lastly, does anyone know if HPV can be transmitted genital-to-oral?

[louie_st 5]

Herpes if not posted on your ads in SLS is just wrong. Don't get me wrong oranything, but I would want to know up front. Not a few weeks later then I find out with some growth or something. I would not want to swing, soft swap, or get physical with a in fected person. This would kill me if I or the wife would come home with this!!! I could see alot of people getting hurt over this. This is not your own life, but others you might infect. Then there is the chance you infect somebody else and then here we go on the cycle again. This is how AIDS was so rapidly spread throught the USA. Nobody saying anything and hopes it goes away. God what happens if they pass it along to their children by mistake and now you just corrupted some inocent child becasue you did not want to say anything. I don't know I just think people who are infected need to be very up front about it......

[imsnowman 34]

MC_alter said:

My wife and are new to the lifestyle and we both carry genital herpes and HPV. At this point we have avoided having to out our issue by engaging in soft-swing only. We haven't had an outbreak of either in over a year at least, but while condoms are very effective in prevent STD spread when used properly, there is always that chance it might break, etc... We are trying to be responsible and the last thing we want to do is expose anyone, but alas, when push comes to shove, I know we need to suck it up and just be up front rather than feeling restrictive will keep people safe from spread.

 

What are the parameters on your soft swing? Do you actually play with the other people or is the touching just between you and your wife?

 

MC_alter said:

Here's what I want to know: we have genital herpes but we both have never had a cold sore. I have heard mixed accounts of whether or not there are actually separate strains of oral and/or genital herpes or if they are all the same virus. Assuming we have the strictly genital variety, would it be possible that we could transmit the virus to someone orally to genitally, and vice versa? I know that people with oral herpes can easily transmit to genital, as oral is often both oral and genital, but what if it is strictly genital? Is this the case, or is it that we both have been lucky enough to never have a cold sore? There seems to be little info out there on this scenario.

 

Lastly, does anyone know if HPV can be transmitted genital-to-oral?

 

Do a search for both HPV and HSV. There are many, many pages of information about both. This site ASHA is one of the best.

[ShellyM 0]

I have a question and I hope someone has an answer. Is there a difference in a canker sore and a cold sore?

[DGrey 28]

ShellyM said:

I have a question and I hope someone has an answer. Is there a difference in a canker sore and a cold sore?

From my understanding, a cold sore develops outside on the lips or surrounding area and a canker sore develops on the inside, typically from a cut or something similar.

[imsnowman 34]

Canker sore

Cold sore

[Thrax 384]

ShellyM said:

I have a question and I hope someone has an answer. Is there a difference in a canker sore and a cold sore?

Apparently, yes. I didn't do much research on it, but the following is from the Mayo Clinic website ( https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/canker-sore/symptoms-causes/syc-20370615 ). I figured the folks there might know what they're talking about:

 

"Canker sore: Small and out-of-sight, but painful, persistent and annoying. That's what canker sores, also called aphthous ulcers (aphthae), are for people who experience them. These shallow ulcers in your mouth can make eating and talking uncomfortable. They may occur on your tongue, on your soft palate, inside your cheeks or lips, and at the base of your gums.

 

Canker sores differ from cold sores in that they occur on the internal soft tissues of your mouth and aren't contagious. Conversely, cold sores almost always start out on the lips and don't often spread to the soft tissues of your mouth. In addition, cold sores are caused by a form of the herpes virus, making them extremely contagious.

 

Canker sores are common, but the cause in many cases is unknown. Canker sores can occur at any age, but often they first appear when you are between 10 and 40 years of age.

 

Most of the time, treatment isn't necessary for canker sores. Pain usually decreases after several days, and canker sores typically heal within one to three weeks. Occasionally canker sores can develop that are larger than 1 centimeter in diameter or last longer than two weeks."

 

I've had canker sores before, but never have had a cold sore...knock on (or touch) wood. Haven't had any canker sores recently, but within the last decade or two they've appeared occasionally but usually vanished pretty fast. I credit that to clean living...

[MulderNScully 19]

Man, this is really hitting home because Bren and I have a friend who is a single female and is aware of us being in the lifestyle. She doesn't want to get sexual with us (don't want to risk loosing our friendship), but even if we did we wouldn't because of no fault of her own she contacted the herpes virus by a former boyfriend of hers. She now has the symptoms described early in this post and is getting the care and treatment she needs, but that's not the issue really. The issue is she wants to check out the lifestyle and the club as a voyeur of sorts, but not a participants. We talked about the implications till nearly 1:30 am this past Monday morning.

 

I read one person on here saying a condom is your best bet...I agree, condoms is a good line of defense but if you are another woman who want to have oral sex with a woman who has contacted herpes I'd say a dental dam would be appropriate too. You can still be sexual, but also cover all the basis where this lifestyle pertains too. My advice: Check with your doctor or get some good direction from either Planned Parenthood or other sexual health outlets which deals frankly with issues of sexual health.

[Paramour2_99 0]

How is it that the two of you can have the frame of mind to be swingers and you both have communicable deseases?

[MulderNScully 19]

No, no, no!!

 

Scully and I don't have the herpes virus or anything else. Our friend does but she's only curious about the lifestyle; we haven't, nor would we, play with her on any level because of that (along with the fact she is a good friend of ours). If for any reason we didn't make that clear please forgive us. We wouldn't knowingly pass on any STD onto another couple/single in the lifestyle without first briefing them. This is just wrong!

[OttawaCuple 15]

MulderNScully said:

No, no, no!!

 

Scully and I don't have the herpes virus or anything else. Our friend does ...

MulderNScully, I would assume Paramour2_99 is responding to MC_alter's post as they were the ones who said they had HSV & HPV ( :rollseyes this is what happens when people don't specify which post they are responding to)

 

MC_alter said:

My wife and are new to the lifestyle and we both carry genital herpes and HPV. At this point we have avoided having to out our issue by engaging in soft-swing only.

MC_alter, what do you mean by "soft-swing"? There are many definitions, but The Swingers Board dictionary defines it as "The term used to describe same-room sex, watching/being watched, or any sexual encounter up to, but not including intercourse, with someone other than your spouse." Not including intercourse CAN mean all forms of oral sex, and oral sex can be VERY risky when you're talking about herpes.

 

MC_alter said:

we have genital herpes but we both have never had a cold sore. I have heard mixed accounts of whether or not there are actually separate strains of oral and/or genital herpes or if they are all the same virus. Assuming we have the strictly genital variety, would it be possible that we could transmit the virus to someone orally to genitally, and vice versa? I know that people with oral herpes can easily transmit to genital, as oral is often both oral and genital, but what if it is strictly genital? Is this the case, or is it that we both have been lucky enough to never have a cold sore?

MC_alter, there is no such thing as a "strictly genital variety" Go to herpes.org for verification of this fact. Yes, it is possible to transmit "genital herpes" of either strain to the mouth although it is more rare than transferring the other way around. This information is also found on the herpes.org website).

 

Paramour2_99 said:

How is it that the two of you can have the frame of mind to be swingers and you both have communicable diseases?

Paramour2_99, although some people would not call them swingers, there are MANY couples who are members of swingers clubs who simply enjoy watching and being watched and have no intention of every ever having oral or genital contact with anyone but their own partner. My husband and I fall into that category - we call ourselves voyeur/exhibitionist swingers. As the website for one of our local swingers clubs says, "Many couples who have joined are just looking for a little extra excitement to spice up their own monogamous relationship while others are active in a swinging lifestyle. Some couples are exhibitionists, others are voyeurs, some are into fetish wear. Yet they all share one thing in common. They are all open minded, fun loving, courteous and tolerant of everyone."

 

Based on some the statistics I've seen, here's something to think about: If 80% of the 1 in 4 adult Americans who have genital herpes are unaware they have it (that adds up to 20% of all adult Americans, BTW!!!!), what percentage of swingers do you think have genital herpes but are unaware they have it??

[good times 991]

Personally, I would be highly skeptical about anything I read on some sites because many of their so-called "facts" just are not true.

 

The problem with statistics is that most of the time they are not true. At the best, they are educated estimates but usually not even that. The fact is, in the case of STD’s; some self-appointed expert that has an agenda usually generates them. Then others repeat what these self-appointed experts say until it becomes the accepted "conventional wisdom".

 

Let’s face it; if you believe these statistics and are worried about contracting Herpes then you should not be swinging. Even the most optimistic of "experts" say that condoms only provide a "slight amount" of protection from Herpes. In reality, it is safest to assume that condoms provide no protection from Herpes.

 

If you get cold sores or fever blisters, you are much more likely to give yourself genital Herpes than you are to get it from a sex partner.

 

Do I worry about contracting Herpes? Yes, but I don't lose a lot of sleep over it. First off, I don't believe that every fourth person I talk to has it, as the "statistics" would indicate. Secondly, I use my eyes, if a person has cold sores or the signs of herpes on or near their genitals; I am not going to have sex with them. In the end though, their is no way for me to know for sure, so I have to decide for myself if I am willing to take the risk. Furthermore, while I admire the people who have the integrity to tell people that they have an STD up front, I am going to assume that people will not tell me and keep myself educated and my eyes open. In my opinion, safe sex is staying sober and aware, using good judgment, and paying attention to details.

 

This is one of the reasons I would not play with someone who does not do oral sex (the other reason is that I like it). Oral as foreplay is a good opportunity to get down there and get a good look.

[edmustang 19]

Finally! Someone else who has a skeptical attitude about statistics in general!

 

In graduate school I took an intro to research class, and at least half of the class was about how to do statistics. I'm here to tell ya folks, you can make statistics say whatever you want. Throw in a bit of an agenda, phrase the question a certain way (yes, it makes a difference, even with pure numbers), stir, and pull out whatever preconceived answer you want.

 

Unless the researcher is extremely honest and consciencious, the stat is pretty much useless. After all, 43.4% of all statistics are just made up.

[niceNHcouple 15]

That's really is something to chew on, Good Times. I think it is wise to evaluate each person/persons on an individual basis. My wife and I have been with one couple a few times over the last 2 years and that has gone great. We are starting to find a few couples who are still willing to meet us so that is positive news there.

 

Thanks for the education.

[Menage_a_Trois 182]

good times said:

I am going to assume that people will not tell me and keep myself educated and my eyes open. In my opinion, safe sex is staying sober and aware, using good judgment, and paying attention to details.

 

This is one of the reasons I would not play with someone who does not do oral sex (the other reason is that I like it). Oral as foreplay is a good opportunity to get down there and get a good look.

 

Dito

 

I have to agree 100% with Mr. Goodtimes! It's is our responsibility as individuals to do what is in our best interest - and that means exactly what Goodtimes has stated here, EYES wide open and all senses on full alert to the possibility of this. But I too will not lose sleep over it and oral is the best why to check things out up close and completely personal. That is safe sex.

 

Another excellent post Mr. Goodtimes!

[seattlecpl06 16]

How do you find other couples who like to swing that have the herpes virus? I can't believe that no swingers have the virus, since 1 out of every 4 adults in the United States have herpes according to some major health organizations. Please respond!

 

We're looking for this same thing, herpescpl. I think most people with the virus are just not honest about it.

 

To be fair, statistics show that most people who are HSV-2 positive simply don't know that they have it (since for many people, like me, it NEVER produces any symptoms!). Also, since most people (85-90%) are HSV-1, often they think "oh, it's just cold sores. At least I don't have HERPES!" Which, of course, is dead wrong.

 

I think that people who have HSV-2 and are honest about it are more likely to be truly safe sex than people who brag that they're completely clean. Statistically, not having ANY type of herpes simply isn't likely. A bit of simple probability math shows that the odds of being infected with one of the two common types is a staggering 88-92% (depending on which HSV-1 figures you use -- (1 - (85/100)) * (1 - (20/100)) == odds of not having ANY herpes).

 

So the bottom line is that people who are honest with others and themselves, and get screened for EVERYTHING -- in other words, the honest portion of the swinger community, I'd bet -- are probably the safest sex around. Unlike simply promiscuous singles, swingers are more likely to actually KNOW what they do and don't have, instead of just guessing or wishful thinking.

 

Good luck in your search, herpescpl!

[seattlecpl06 16]

One more thing... even though I used it myself, am I the only one who's a little offended by the use of the word "clean" to describe being STD-free? I'm cleaner than almost anyone I know. I just happen to have HSV-2, which produces no disfigurement, no odor, and nothing whatsoever visible to the naked eye. I'm certainly not "dirty."

 

I guess maybe "STD-free" is a better term.

[puddles 15]

edmustang said:

Finally! Someone else who has a skeptical attitude about statistics in general!

 

In graduate school I took an intro to research class, and at least half of the class was about how to do statistics. I'm here to tell ya folks, you can make statistics say whatever you want. Throw in a bit of an agenda, phrase the question a certain way (yes, it makes a difference, even with pure numbers), stir, and pull out whatever preconceived answer you want.

 

Unless the researcher is extremely honest and conscientious, the stat is pretty much useless. After all, 43.4% of all statistics are just made up.

My God, Yes!!!!!

 

At some point in the recent evolution of medical science, the practitioners of a discipline called Epidemiology took over the "high ground" of credibility. This means reducing diseases to numbers. It has its uses (in costing disease, or understanding outbreaks), but lacks any finesse - a crude tool at best, a source of falsehood more often. Most of the great medical advances were drawn from case studies - the close observation of real people. Statistics was just one way of looking at the results, not the only way, far from the best way for most purposes. Consider a hypothetical example - you are testing a drug that statistically does not outperform placebos, indeed does more harm than good, but that, in a small minority of specific cases, gives significant relief to people who have been helped by no other drug. Statistical analysis won't pick up this detail (and therefore, in this hypothetical case, the drug will have been proven a failure, and be discarded) UNLESS YOU ARE ALREADY AWARE OF IT.

 

Most medical research is funded by people with something to sell and something to hide (e.g. most nutritional research is funded by the food processing industry). How does this help us when it comes to STDs?

 

If I wanted to learn about herpes - how it might affect me, how I might catch it, the risks and effects - I'd listen to people who live with it, and I'd consider other medical advice in that light. We've all, I'm sure, had the experience of listening to a doctor pontificate, while thinking to ourselves "If you actually had this disease yourself, you'd never have said that" or "No-one who has actually taken this drug themselves would ever prescribe it to another human being". Only an idiot, after all, would let an expert contradict their own experience.

 

As for relying on statistics, that's just a form of gambling.

[seattlecpl06 16]

I'm sorry, I just don't buy this "STD's are a conspiracy made up to sell condoms" theory that seems to be floating around.

 

I'm sure that financial interest plays some role (it would be foolish to believe otherwise), but STD's are a very real and very common problem. I know too many people with them or who've been affected by them for it to be a myth. My doctor reports the same and he hasn't made a dime off of condom sales from me.

 

I hate condoms. They cut 50% of the feeling of intercourse for me, and are horribly impersonal. But I think it's dishonest to use my dislike of condoms to try to "prove" that all of the overwhelming data showing they are effective at significantly reducing the risk of many STD's, so I'll just say that I don't like them. I have to wear them, but I don't have to like them. Others may and do choose differently, but that's none of my business.

 

Statistics are a useful tool, but they have to be understood in context, with testing methodolgy considered, as well as bias and so on. This doesn't mean they're useless. It just means that they need to be used with care and understanding of the complexities involved in trying to reduce a complex set of empirical data to a simple rule or number.

[seattlecpl06 16]

One more thing; aside from HIV, I don't believe that viral load testing is even performed for most virii (it's very expensive, unless I'm mistaken). This means that when I come up HSV-2 positive, this doesn't necessarily mean that I have herpes. It means that I've been exposed to herpes. If I'm going to be intellectually dishonest, I could use this plus the fact that I almost never have any identifiable outbreaks to convince myself and others that I don't "have" herpes. But since I've clearly been exposed, it's fairer to all concerned if I just say I "have" it and take the responsible safe sex precautions that I know I should be taking anyway.

[Chicup 41]

seattlecpl06 said:

We're looking for this same thing, herpescpl. I think most people with the virus are just not honest about it.

 

To be fair, statistics show that most people who are HSV-2 positive simply don't know that they have it (since for many people, like me, it NEVER produces any symptoms!). Also, since most people (85-90%) are HSV-1, often they think "oh, it's just cold sores. At least I don't have HERPES!" Which, of course, is dead wrong.

Well just a side note, anyone who had chicken pox had herpes too.

 

HSV-1 is far far tamer than HSV-2. As you said almost everyone has HSV-1 and they were exposed early in life (in fact today I saw a child with an outbreak). Perhaps that is why HSV-2 is worse as you don't get it until you are an adult (hopefully) so the symptoms are worse but still they share less of their DNA (1 and 2) then we do with apes.

[seattlecpl06 16]

Interesting; I didn't know about the genetic differences.

 

Honestly, neither my partner or I have problems with herpes. I can't remember the last time I had an outbreak (literally), and she has maybe one per year. Hardly disfiguring and debilitating. We still want to be honest, but aside from the social stigma it just hasn't affected us much.

[niceNHcouple 15]

I know condoms are impersonal but I have found some them give almost the same feel as bareback. I sue them when asked cause it is the proper thing to do when you are swinging. We always have some with us.

[seattlecpl06 16]

niceNH, do you have any recommended brands?

 

It seems like there's always a tradeoff between finding ones that are sturdy enough to not break, but give any sensation...

 

I agree; when swinging, we will always use condoms during intercourse.