Any single males just up and gave up?

[Tellya Later 15]

I ask this because its been a good 3 yrs or so that I've been playing with couples. Off and on of course but it all started with a couple in the summer of '01. In any case since I'd say jan. '02 its been damn near impossible to find

 

• sane
  
• sincere
  
• honest
  
• genuine
  

 

couples looking for a single male

• intimacy
  
• companionship (if not even for the moment)
  
• sexual release
  
• satisfaction of a kink
  

 

Now if you don't succeed with couples (and the decided slant against singles in the lifestyle does lend it self to not succeeding) consistently there will be gaps. Like I mentioned in another post, if you succeed with a couple, there's a good chance you'll succeed with a single woman. And as a single woman the likelyhood of repeat "parties" is greater.

 

So why put up with it to begin with?

 

Now I'm not saying meeting couples sucks, is a bad idea, or you're better off reading a book, but I am saying that for the effort involved (pleasing two people one of which is a woman the other is a defensive and protective husband, as well he should be; fakes; fitting into their life)...you'll have less trouble with a single woman.

 

Yes you'll have to weed through crazies.

Yes you'll have to troll bars (if it comes to that) and other areas for meeting women.

But, you can find someone who you probably won't have to fight/negotiate to be around.

 

And if you did happen to find that perfect couple...did you ever think that finding that perfect woman would be just as good. Plus, if she's as sexually free as you....you can just fuckin swing!!!

 

Sorry...this is a rant. A rant with a message...but a rant none the less.

 

soapbox head bang

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Excellent post and one that I've often wondered about...

 

And if you did happen to find that perfect couple...did you ever think that finding that perfect woman would be just as good. Plus, if she's as sexually free as you....you can just fuckin swing!!!

 

Why would a single male who CAN succeed with couples choose to swing with couples rather than just finding a woman (or three) and potentially being able to swing as a couple.

 

As a single female I went through this on the other side. Coming out of my marriage I considered swinging alone and I did for a short time. But when it came down to it and a desirable relationship came along, I took that over swinging... and the option is still there to potentially swing with him later as a couple.

 

Now, that said, if something happened and this relationship ended, chances are I'd just return to swinging as a single female rather than attempt to find another relationship (not that I was looking for this one). Relationships are hard and finding someone worth entering into one with is even harder. Swinging on the other hand would allow me to develop friendships with both men and women and have my sexual needs fulfilled without any strings or expectations (I would hope).

 

Granted I'm a single female, but that's my take. I don't know how different it is than a single guy's take but I would love to find out.

[gsu22 187]

Relationships for me have been more emotional of course and harder to manage. Like Julie said, and I agree 100%, the swinging experiences I've had have produced nice friendships and excellent sexual releases with NO strings which is great.

 

Also, I realize that I'm only 23 and I'm not always looking for a relationship right away......I've been lucky enough to swing with a few nice couples and those experiences for me have really broadened my horizons. I've been able to fulfill fantasies, have wonderful sex, and make some good friends along the way. Relationships can bring all of these things as well but the circumstances can obviously be diffierent. And when another relationship does happen, I'm sure that I'll stick with that above swinging unless she wants to swing as well ....and IF it doesn't work out, I can fall back on swinging again.

[curiousagain 326]

I am a little confused. Tellya later, are you saying you are seeking sex with couples but not single females??

 

I don't know about everyone else, but swinging is one thing I do, not everything. I continue to date single females and while not looking for a relationship, if I found that special someone, I would certainly give it a try. I have several Friends with Benefits so I am not seeking couples for sex alone but MFM or foursome sex. That and the little bit of voyeurism and exhibitionism that goes along with it are my kinks. I think I would give up swinging in a nanosecond for a good relationship but then again I really enjoy the lifestyle. I have made some great friends in it and find as a whole these are people who think like I do and I enjoy being around them even if just for conversation. Perhaps that is one reason I enjoy this board so much.

 

I think the problem some single males have in this lifestyle is they are in it just for sex, not the kind of sex that the couples are seeking. If you are just looking for sex, your time is better spent in search of single females. Have you tried internet dating? You don't have to go to a bar to meet someone.

 

If you become friends with a couple long term, that is a relationship of sorts. Not a romantic one, but a friendship relationship with a twist. There are people's feelings to consider as well as your own. If you are wanting one night stands with single females without strings, those are out there too and in more frequency than couples.

 

Sit down, think about what you want. Think about where that is available and how to put yourself in that position. You have to decide if you are a single male looking for sex or a swinging single male.

Then again, maybe you are clear on all this and it is just me that is befuddled. LOL

 

I think I need another cup of coffee

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Now I'm not saying meeting couples sucks, is a bad idea, or you're better off reading a book, but I am saying that for the effort involved (pleasing two people one of which is a woman the other is a defensive and protective husband, as well he should be; fakes; fitting into their life)...you'll have less trouble with a single woman.

This makes sense from a mathematical standpoint. The more people you add into the equation, the less likely it will be that all parties will be able to get along without conflict. From a couples perspective, this is also why it is generally easier for couples to hook up with a single guy rather than another couple.

[gsu22 187]

I'm not just in it for sex......like I said, the friendships and sex with no strings has been nice indeed. If a single female and I met and a relationship developed, then I would hope for a successful relationship with her. I would of course give up swinging for her BUT if it didn't work out, I could lean back on swinging I believe

[EternallySingle 32]

I've stopped looking for couples. I still have my profile on SLS and I update it every two or three months, but I've made it clear there that I'm available if anyone wants to meet me, and because of where I live, I really don't see that happening. So in a way I have given up on swinging, because I don't initiate contact with couples anymore, just single women.

 

To me, thats dating. Yes, its dating with the intention of hooking up with someone who might be interested in some no-strings attached sex (and in the back of my mind the hope that a connection beyond sex might occur as well), but I've given up on clubs and pursuing couples. I'd rather spend my energy pursuing single women outside of swinging, then single women involved in swinging. I leave it up to couples to want to get to know me and ask me to join them, not petition them to let me join them for what may only be a string of one night stands.

[curiousagain 326]

I am beginning to think I am way outside the bell curve here. I really enjoy threesome/foursome sex. I may enjoy moresomes, haven't tried it, but just because the opportunity hasn't popped up. It seems like the vast majority of single males trying this via the internet are trying to use it as a substitute for dating/finding sex, etc. It is way more and less than that.

 

My ad states I am not having any problem finding women outside of swinging and that is true. I have always seemed to find women to date but presently, I am one of a couple of hundred males working with about 4,000 women. Probably some of the men are gay and about 1/2 are married. Think about it. It's what it must be like for a single bi female to walk into a swing club. Maybe that's why I take such a cavalier and fun attitude to swinging? I like to see the couple have a fun time and am not satisfied unless they both are. (up to a point, I am not bicurious lol) Do you think that is why so many single males act the way they do? They have absolutely no clue about relationships, the actual workings of swinging, etc. and are just out to get laid rather than being part of the puzzle of multiple partner sex? Am I just beginning to realize what everyone else has known forever???? It would explain the actions of the average single male. Maybe they think the swinging females will have sex with anyone and act accordingly rather than realizing they are just people who like to swing????

[Tellya Later 15]

Relationships for me have been more emotional of course and harder to manage. Like Julie said, and I agree 100%, the swinging experiences I've had have produced nice friendships and excellent sexual releases with NO strings which is great.

 

Also, I realize that I'm only 23 and I'm not always looking for a relationship right away......I've been lucky enough to swing with a few nice couples and those experiences for me have really broadened my horizons. I've been able to fulfill fantasies, have wonderful sex, and make some good friends along the way. Relationships can bring all of these things as well but the circumstances can obviously be diffierent. And when another relationship does happen, I'm sure that I'll stick with that above swinging unless she wants to swing as well ....and IF it doesn't work out, I can fall back on swinging again.

 

see thats exactly where i'm at. I cherish the times I had swinging and the friends I made but I *WANT* the relationship with a single woman but due to my job (underpaid and working nights) socializing is at a bare minimum. Factor in an inability to meet the friends I've made and the new people i encounter more or less are fakes, jerk your chain, or are out to make a buck.....the fun has been sucked out of it.

[Tellya Later 15]

I am a little confused. Tellya later, are you saying you are seeking sex with couples but not single females??

 

No. Like I said in my first post, if you can succeed with a couple you can succeed as a single based on the math and what it takes to attract the couple. This is evidenced when I actually do get to socialize.

 

I think the problem some single males have in this lifestyle is they are in it just for sex, not the kind of sex that the couples are seeking. If you are just looking for sex, your time is better spent in search of single females. Have you tried internet dating? You don't have to go to a bar to meet someone.

 

I would wager these guys don't succeed. There was a post I just read about a couple who just read a rant and was planning a mmmf. The conversation they detailed exhibits the behavior a single guy like mentioned above would exhibit. Now to decline a mmmf because you aren't comfortable with it is one thing but to turn around and "bait and switch" to something in your favor is deceitful and wouldn't work with a single woman and damn sure won't work with a couple.

 

[QOUTE=curiousagain]If you become friends with a couple long term, that is a relationship of sorts. Not a romantic one, but a friendship relationship with a twist. There are people's feelings to consider as well as your own. If you are wanting one night stands with single females without strings, those are out there too and in more frequency than couples.[/QOUTE]

 

See this is what I had. But due to distance, circumstance, and life I don't anymore. Its been replaced by fakes, jerks, and people out to make a buck. All i want is the levity and good times that you get with a friendship with a couple with maybe a dash a sex because with all the couples I did become friends with I would rate the times that weren't sexual higher than the sexual ones.

 

Sit down, think about what you want. Think about where that is available and how to put yourself in that position. You have to decide if you are a single male looking for sex or a swinging single male.

Then again, maybe you are clear on all this and it is just me that is befuddled. LOL

 

LOL now I think I'm just as confused curiousagain. Like you I enjoy the 3somes/4somes/moresomes but at the same time I really want, and I can't think of a better way to say it, but someone I can call my own.

[Hottimes 15]

Granted I'm a single female, but that's my take. I don't know how different it is than a single guy's take but I would love to find out.

 

It's a little different being a single guy... Look on any liefstyle site and you will see the vast majority of ads are for "blah-blah-blah ISO couple or single female" (no single male included).

 

When I was in highschool I had an amazing relationship with a beautiful and caring 30 something couple in Palm Beach. Mutually fullfilling for everyone on a physical and emotional level. Later I went away to college and saw them from time to time during the summer, holiday breaks, and whathaveyou. They wound up having a child and exited the swing scene altogether. It was a wonderful introduction and experience in general. It is also what I have found to be a complete anomaly. I have not experienced that same type of 3 way long-term love affair since.

 

As far a strictly sex is concerned, it is much easier to find a single female. For some reason with couples, if the husband is not having sex with someone elses wife, he does not care for you having sex with his!

[BigDlittleK 15]

This being my first nite and having never swung I hope I dont come across as arrogant. I dont agree that if you have a good relationship with a couple or more necessarily translates into being able to have a good relationship with one person. Like I said I have never swung but I believe there are boundaries and rules that are in place before anything happens right? So there is a comfort level that is in place to ensure a positive experience. Im 34 and have never been married, not for lack of trying, but I know that in a sense when you meet a woman or man that you want to have more than just sex or friendship with it becomes a leap of faith. The upfront boundaries and rules and comfort zones ,for the most part, are non-exsistant and you are working on the hope that this person feels the same. I think as gut-wrenching and nerve-racking as that can be sometimes is what makes it exciting and enlightining. For every time the pieces have to be picked up and you have to start over there are countless experiences inbetween that make it worth it. So TellYaLater dont give up man youre living the life and I dont mean with the couples You are a single man ,young man , I suspect she could be at the club tomorrow nite or the coffee shop 5 years from now at least thats how I look at it for whatever its worth

[EternallySingle 32]

Excellent post and one that I've often wondered about...

 

 

 

Why would a single male who CAN succeed with couples choose to swing with couples rather than just finding a woman (or three) and potentially being able to swing as a couple.

 

As a single female I went through this on the other side. Coming out of my marriage I considered swinging alone and I did for a short time. But when it came down to it and a desirable relationship came along, I took that over swinging... and the option is still there to potentially swing with him later as a couple.

 

Now, that said, if something happened and this relationship ended, chances are I'd just return to swinging as a single female rather than attempt to find another relationship (not that I was looking for this one). Relationships are hard and finding someone worth entering into one with is even harder. Swinging on the other hand would allow me to develop friendships with both men and women and have my sexual needs fulfilled without any strings or expectations (I would hope).

 

Granted I'm a single female, but that's my take. I don't know how different it is than a single guy's take but I would love to find out.

 

Reading Julie's response and remembering a recurring conversation I've had with several female friends and relatives, this is a very different situation for women than with men. I don't think its easier for single women, however, just different.

 

As for her first question, when the average single guy approaches a single woman, he may be thinking of having sex with her, but he's not going to do or say anything (usually) that will make her think he is interested in anything but her, even if he knows she swings every week and is a lifetime member of every local swing club. Goes back to the 'ticket' theory. Unless she has explicitly said "I'm only with you because I want a swing partner", any man with half a brain is going to try to establish some level of trust with a single woman before he brings up the topic of sex. That may take a few minutes, a few days, or a few months, but unless its a one night stand, he's not going to think of swinging if she doesn't bring it up. Thats a good way to shoot yourself in the foot. Its a little different meeting someone on a swing site, but not much. Most of the single women have profiles that effectively say they could care less if any single men existed at all.

 

Also (and this is just my observation), a single woman is more likely to be approached for dates, be invited to parties, or even just asked to hang out on the spur of the moment, than a single man. In fact, if a single man does ot actively approach as many women as he can in a week, he won't have any dates that month, let alone that week. Usually, he can't even expect to go out with good friends who are female unless he plans for it in advance, and many times he will learn that outing has been cancelled one or two days ahead of time if he's lucky. Why? Those single female friends have probably been approached at least five or ten times a week and asked on dates. Whether they accepted, or even took them seriously, is beside the point. The only exception is when the woman secretly wants a relationship with said single man, but doesn't know how to or is afraid to let him know for one reason or another. In short, men approach women, and most women seem to like it that way.

 

Another observation: A single man is more likely to pursue a relationship with a woman than a single woman is likely to pursue a relationship with a man. See above. Again, there are exceptions.

 

Lastly, a single woman is going to be more actively pursued by couples looking to swing than a single man. Part of that may be that 1/2 of a couple usually consists of a woman, and she may be more comfortable trying to gain the interest of a woman than a man. The belief is that a single man may become too attached, too possessive, or be too disrespectful of the couple's relationship. Or he may want to become too close of a friend for one or both of their comfort. Also, its easier for some couples to include a single female in their 'vanilla' activities than a single man, and this is not restricted to swinging. I think a lot of husbands would rather not have single male friends because it would leave their wives outside looking in, but have no problem with their wives having single female friends. I've been in a situation with a couple I used to swing with where I was friends with the husband before the idea of swinging ever crossed my mind, and the wife became jealous because we would do things every other weekend like football or pool or archery. No looking or even talking about women, but she felt left out. Why, I don't know. Just something I've seen.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

This being my first nite and having never swung I hope I dont come across as arrogant. I dont agree that if you have a good relationship with a couple or more necessarily translates into being able to have a good relationship with one person. Like I said I have never swung but I believe there are boundaries and rules that are in place before anything happens right? So there is a comfort level that is in place to ensure a positive experience.

 

The key and the reason why I would agree that if you are a single (especially a single male) who can succeed in swinging that you should be able to succeed in the dating world (probably even better than most, is that because of those boundaries and that comfort level having to be established before anything happens, if you are one who can get to the point of establishing that comfort level then you obviously have something going on... that little something extra.

 

It's much harder for a single male to succeed in the swinging world and be accepted by couples than it is for him to succeed in the dating world. He has to please two people instead of just one. You think getting past a girls older brother is hard, try getting past her husband!

[Russ 15]

Sure I give up about 2am. When I was married me and my friend used to keep a wager on the single guys along those lines, as for giving up it's like a drug- very hard to. You can hang it up, come back in couple years if you want to, afterall it's recreational fun, your status can change and when it does the view changes from the 'cheap seats' to front row, but the politics never seem to change. Swinging is for couples, the power rests with the couples, as a Single males we are just the side show. If we can't laugh at ourselves and the many hypocrisies of Swinging then we arnt the consenting adults we claim to be. We're just one big disfunctional incestuous family. We singles have to remember we are the relatives that are invited at Christmas and arn't suppost to stay that long.

[20ishCouple 15]

Wow I'm just reading what everyone is posting here...and well, honestly I am in aww at some of the things I have heard from the single men here. Mr. 20ish and myself want a single male, thats our favorite combo. But we want the emotional part of a long lasting 3 way sort of relationship, not just the sex. We love the bond that is shared between people who can be friends outside the bedroom, yet venture to the bedroom and show so much emotion and love, its very passionate, and that is a friendship that is treasured fore life. We had that once, and distance has came between us...so now we are searching to find that again. We want to meet someone who wants more than just the sex. It's good to see that the single guys posting in this forum don't look at swinging with a couple as just some One nite only sex and nothing more. Mr. 20ish is very patient, understanding, and far from the jealous type. We work well with Single men. It's just hard to find them around our area, who want a lil more than just sex, and who are somewhere close to our age. It's given us knew hope that somewhere out there, there are people who we'd work well with. Thank you all.

[Russ 15]

Wow I'm just reading what everyone is posting here...and well, honestly I am in aww at some of the things I have heard from the single men here. Mr. 20ish and myself want a single male, thats our favorite combo. But we want the emotional part of a long lasting 3 way sort of relationship, not just the sex. We love the bond that is shared between people who can be friends outside the bedroom, yet venture to the bedroom and show so much emotion and love, its very passionate, and that is a friendship that is treasured fore life. We had that once, and distance has came between us...so now we are searching to find that again. We want to meet someone who wants more than just the sex. It's good to see that the single guys posting in this forum don't look at swinging with a couple as just some One nite only sex and nothing more. Mr. 20ish is very patient, understanding, and far from the jealous type. We work well with Single men. It's just hard to find them around our area, who want a lil more than just sex, and who are somewhere close to our age. It's given us knew hope that somewhere out there, there are people who we'd work well with. Thank you all.

 

Sounds like the two of you are unfortunately among the 'dying breed', couples like you are hard to find and few and far between. It seems most couples between the age of 20-35 are 'players' or 'big game' hunters out to rack up a score and don't have any concern for the emotional wake they leave behind when speeding away. Young couples new to swinging just experimenting and have tight hot bodies know they 'got it going on' and don't need to reach inside or work at being 'kinder' 'gentler' souls. I was among the former with my first wife until I lost her, then my second wife(who is 15 yrs my senior) taught me a thing or two, don't get me wrong I'm generally the same A-hole I always was but atleast I care about people.

 

Ever see the movie "Kiss the Sky"....beautiful movie too bad it don't really workout like that with a committed couple...there's always that 'line' that can't be crossed.

[20ishCouple 15]

Well we definately aren't in it for the rackin up of the score. It's about so much more to us. Just wish that there were more people who we clicked with who has the same mindset.

 

No we've never seen that movie....gonna have to check it out.

 

 

R & J

[Spoomonkey 420]

20ishcouple

 

Like you, we very much enjoy single men - but they are really tough to find; especially when you are looking for friendship more than just the occassional (or one time) hook up. We want someone that we would both be happy to hang out with (and he with us) even on a vanilla weekend - but with the kind of benefits that brought us here to begin with...

 

I can see why singles give up - but I can also see why couples get frustrated. From the perspective of the couple, though, all we have to have is patience. With single men, it is a much tougher deal.

 

Spoomonkey

[20ishCouple 15]

I completely agree with you there. Patience....And we got lots of it. But still ready for another go with a single male.

[Spoomonkey 420]

Finding for a good one is worth the wait.

 

It doesn't always seem that way during the wait, but it is... Or recent search recently ended with our best single male experience yet - and we can't wait to play with him again...

 

Well - Mrs Spoomonkey actually plays with him... I play with her... I mean, we all play together, but I'm straight...

 

Aw - forget it...

 

 

I like to say there is a LOT of "catch and release"...

 

Spoomonkey

[20ishCouple 15]

I do understand and I am sure it is worth the wait for the right one, or ones...hehe....

 

Oh and I do understand what ya meant. *wink*

[curious24 17]

Spoonmonkey and 20ishCouple why do you all have to be so darn far away? I can't find anything like you all close enough. er

[Dr Jekyll 15]

Well - Mrs Spoomonkey actually plays with him... I play with her... I mean, we all play together, but I'm straight...

You are??? I'd never have guessed...

 

More seriously:

I think it's sad how many single guys are out there spending time and effort into a lifestyle that will not accept them. The couples who play with single men complain that they struggle to find quality single men. And although it's a paradox I can easily see it happening, as we have talked about so often in the past...

 

The thing is, as a single guy, why would you be looking for more than friendship with a couple. Very few people can do the polyarmorous (sp?) thing. It's tough to accept the person you love is in love with someone else too. So I can imagine 20ishCouple having a hard time (not saying it's impossible) in finding a single guy to join them... I certainly wouldn't.

 

On the other hand, being friends with a couple, doing stuff together and shagging when everyone feels like it is what every single guy out there should be pursuing. It is the only way they'd ever get into the lifestyle, but quite honestly, is it worth the effort? I'm currently keeping a fairly high profile with the idea that if something comes up and I find a nice couple to play with every now and again it would be great. But I'm living a life outside the lifestyle. I'm definitely not spending every resource on it, just keeping my feelers in place... Somehow I think the effort might eventually become too much for the rewards.

 

It's true that you can more easily find a girl out there... But single guys are not looking for just sex in the lifestyle, it's groupsex they're after. Something of a kink and unusual. And this is why single guys stay in the lifestyle. If not for that, it's not worth the effort. The friendship with great people is a BIG bonus. But finding them is tough, frustrating and high maintenance...

[JnCC 24]

Let's see...If I understand your original post, you're basically saying "Why am I busting my ass to score with a couple in the Lifestyle? For all the effort I'm putting into this, I could be dating a real, live woman.. LOTS of women, in fact"

 

You're right, it's a lot easier for a single guy to score with a woman than it is to score with a couple. Obviously, guys who are looking for couples aren't looking for a woman...they're looking for women AND a man. The desire for both must be pretty strong, as they're working pretty damn hard to get them both. I'm not passing judgement here, just stating a fact.

 

When you think about it, swinging is just a way for married couples to approximate, once or twice a month, the lifestyle that single guys and gals live 24/7...

[curiousagain 326]

Yes, JnCC for the amount of time, money, effort, etc. to meet one couple a single guy can have a warefhouse full of women if he is half way attractive and has a decent job and passable social skills.

 

So why do we do it?? We are into group sex. simple as that. Personally, I am spending less and less time on the swing thing. But, there are several reasons for that. One, I now know several couples and I play semi regularly with them, I am tired of the BSers and fakers, and how many couples treat single males, and I think my time, money, and effort would be better spent on regular dating possibly with the hopes that I will meet someone that would like to try swinging or is a swinger. Just a reallocation of resources. Basic time/resource management if you will.

[20ishCouple 15]

Spoonmonkey and 20ishCouple why do you all have to be so darn far away? I can't find anything like you all close enough. er

 

Curious....

 

From what we've read so far about you (in your interview)and seen from your posts, we really like your way of thinking. (IMO) so far, from what we know, you are a good guy who has his thoughts and ideas of the lifestyle in order.

 

We'd love to be closer to you, it would be fun to meet up and have some drinks, just hang out, whatever.

 

Why do you have to be so far away?

 

R (the she of the we)

[jonbmf66 15]

This is to the 20ish Couple. I am new to this whole thing, but I am doing my research on here and talked to some people about it. I am actually living in Southern Indiana myself and would love to talk to you guys on here sometime. I am young, 19 to be exact, but you two are young two, and I am just looking into some things.

 

I have looked through many of the threads, and seen the desire for young gentlemen, and I feel that I am looking for more than most of the average single men are.

 

Sorry if this is offensive or anything

[scrying 15]

I'd have to say what I am looking for can depend on my mood, frankly. While in theory, I'd love to meet a couple or single woman out here that I can develop a good and lasting relationship with while I remain, the impatient side of me occasionally does just wish for the sheer unfettered joy of sexual abandon. But then again, one can also have that in a relationship setting.

There is a great deal of frustration on the part of the singles set (male division) when it comes to pursuing encounters in this lifestyle (and living out here, believe me, I know frustration :rollseyes . I haven't thought of giving up so much (being a stubborn bastard)...but there are days, and there are days, ya know?

meanwhile, back at the ranch....

[ATAK 15]

Well, here's my 2 cents...I've been a single man for 2 years now, but have been in and out of the lifestyle for 8 years or so. Its been nearly 18 months since I last had a swing experience...but I've not given it up. These things are little moments in life that happen, either because of a spontaneous decision, or long-term planning. Either way, it's not something that's gonna happen to you every day. I've thoroughly enjoyed every experience I've had, and yes, I'd LOVE to have more of them, but I take what I can get and I'm happy about it. Like many other men here, I date single women regularly, and have many friends that are not in the lifestyle. Many of them don't have any idea that I swing, but it's not because I've given it up. If the situation presents itself, then I'll speak up. Given the choice between a sexual relationship with a couple, and an emotional relationship with a woman, I'll take the emotional every time. I just hope she's open-minded enough to be willing to try the lifestyle too. If not, so be it. I've had fun and I'll remember the times I've had.

 

The thing is, as a single guy, why would you be looking for more than friendship with a couple. Very few people can do the polyarmorous (sp?) thing. It's tough to accept the person you love is in love with someone else too.

 

Men are generally insecure anyway when it comes to women. If we weren't insecure, then it'd be easy to hook up with almost anyone we wanted to (like many ladies do). So when a man meets, dates, and eventually marries a woman, the last thing he wants is another man coming along trying to steal his woman. I think this is why it's so hard for single men in the lifestyle. Married men know how single men operate because they used to be single themselves. Married men know that single men are searching too. They just don't want their wives to be the ones that they (single guys) find! Married men are acting in self-preservation mode. I don't believe married men feel they are as threatened by bi-females (which may be an arrogant assumption), plus there's the possibility of sex with more than one woman....it's a risk they're glad to take...also other couples are less threatening because there's an exchange. It's seen as "fair" to everyone because everyone involved gets something. No one's left out.

 

Forgive me if I'm just stating the obvious...

 

And as a side note, thank you Julie for the nice note you left me. It made me feel good.

[Belkin 15]

Why would a single male who CAN succeed with couples choose to swing with couples rather than just finding a woman (or three) and potentially being able to swing as a couple.

 

That's the first time I've heard someone besides Mrs. Belkin say that! She won't even consider single men - she says that males that have it all together and know how to treat women right have girlfriends. She feels that they have proven themselves to some degree in order to attract a partner and therefore are usually a better bet than a single male.

 

So we look for couples.

[ATAK 15]

she says that males that have it all together and know how to treat women right have girlfriends. She feels that they have proven themselves to some degree in order to attract a partner and therefore are usually a better bet than a single male.

 

Perhaps as a general rule, the above statement is correct. But to assume that all situations are the same cookie-cutter type is stereotypical. I have been married (10 years), had 2 long term relationships and have 4 children. I do not blame my current lack of a girlfriend on "not having it together" or "not knowing how to treat a woman". There are many factors which I won't bore you with here, but to group all single men into this category is very simplistic and fairly closed-minded. Besides, not every woman that a swinging male dates and becomes involved with is open to swinging. So just because a single man doesn't have a girlfriend, doesn't mean he doesn't "have it all together". He might just be as picky as a woman might be.

[Spoomonkey 420]

Some of the single men that we have been interested in are usually quite mature and really nice gentlemen. Sure - you have your guys out there trying to "swing" when they couldn't score with a piano sized hooker, and they may, in fact, make up the majority of those "hit and miss" singles who try it, realize it's tough and move on.

 

But - there are good single men out there who - for one reason or another - are single... Maybe they just don't want a relationship right now... Whatever the reason, there are good ones...

 

Rare - sure - but worth the lookin'

 

Spoomonkey

[Belkin 15]

Perhaps as a general rule, the above statement is correct. But to assume that all situations are the same cookie-cutter type is stereotypical.

 

That's true...and why I said "are usually a better bet". There are only so many hours in a day and Mrs. applies some filtering to her searches. She chooses to increase her odds at finding someone decent quickly by focusing on attached males. She is no doubt missing out on a few golden nugget singles this way, but she obviously feels her search time is cut down. Life is a series of choices.

 

I've often told her if I hadn't found her, I would probably be single today. So, had she married someone else before meeting me, I would not be on her list of possible partners either!

[EternallySingle 32]

That's the first time I've heard someone besides Mrs. Belkin say that! She won't even consider single men - she says that males that have it all together and know how to treat women right have girlfriends. She feels that they have proven themselves to some degree in order to attract a partner and therefore are usually a better bet than a single male.

 

So we look for couples.

 

Thats your opinion, and I respect that. From your point of view it makes sense, but have you or your wife taken into account that the man simply hasn't met the woman he wants to be with? I can (if I was an indiscreet jerk) give you the names of twelve women that have flat out said they'd like to marry me (not date, marry). But I've been involved with all of them and they each have something in their personalities that I just can't get past. So I keep my eyes open. I keep in contact with them to see if they've changed, but I don't lead them on, and I look for other women. I don't have really high standards, but there are certain things (like no history of violence and not actively selling narcotics or blowing up buildings...I've dated both ) I just won't put up with no matter how attractive a woman is or how good she is in bed.

 

Meeting people for any reason is a game of numbers. Your wife has decided to rule out single men simply so she doesn't have to go through the bad ones to find the good. Thats her choice. Me, I've stopped writing couples for almost the same reason. I feel the ones that would want to swing with me would see my profile and hopefully say "hey, I want to talk to him just to see if he's bullshitting, cause if he's not..."

 

Stop hatin' on the S-G's. We jus be tryin to kick it like a soccer ball, yo.

Sorry. Was watching Malibu's Most Wanted last night

[JnCC 24]

Why would a single male who CAN succeed with couples choose to swing with couples rather than just finding a woman (or three) and potentially being able to swing as a couple.

Julie, I think you raised a question that is often asked, and rarely answered to the satisfaction of most couples in the lifestyle. I can't answer it as it pertains to everybody or every situation, but perhaps I can shed a little light on it from my perspective...

 

Obviously, the reason some males are in this is that they're bi, or bi-curious. That in itself is nothing to be ashamed of, but not something to bring up down at the Precinct House when the other guys ask "So, how'd your weekend go?" I've read some pretty compelling arguments that state that "sex is sex" and that "at the moment of union, we are all one, absent gender" I'll leave that to the philosophers to decide. But there are better ways for a guy to find out if man-sex is a scene that holds appeal to him, other than swinging.

 

Some men prefer an occasional round of multiple-partner sex. Personally, I enjoy passion, sensuality, and foreplay, and can therefore only give and receive so much pleasure at one time. I would prefer "one woman for three hours" over "three women for one hour." But that's just my style. Others feel quite differently, and if they can find willing partners, more power to them.

 

There are others who are just looking for sex. Easy sex, cheap sex, kinky sex, couples sex. It doesn't matter what kind of sex to them, since they're not finding it anyplace else either. Why not look here? Most aren't above paying for it in dollars if necessary. They consider swinging females to be on about the same level as the pro's they patronize after they've struck out at the bar or swing club. They consider their husbands idiots for allowing their wives to participate. As a group, they're probably the biggest losers in all this, both literally, in terms of actual results, and in terms of their personality traits.

 

But then there's another group, one that doesn't get much recognition. Those are the guys who have fairly rewarding "vanilla" lives (meaning, "they get laid about as often as they like") but who, for various reasons, retain ties to the swinging community. They're guys who who enjoy the open-mindedness and "out of the box" thinking they find among swingers, and who have a tremendous amount of respect for couples who are able to incorporate this into their lives. Seeing firsthand how dynamic and rewarding a relationship can be, they aren't going to settle for anything less in their own lives. If you read through some of the posts on this forum, I think you'll find that, unlike the guys that actively solicit couples, most of the single guys in here fall into this category. We don't "covet" our (swinging) neighbor's wives. We admire their marriage, and the kinds of women they've married, while actively searching for our own.

 

Speaking from the perspective of one who's played this game before, finding sex is easy. Finding women who have, or will, "swing" isn't terribly hard. Finding couples to swing with is hard, but with a little patience, can be done. But...finding an attractive woman who is open to all of the above, PLUS willing to share intimacy, passion, communication and trust? THAT takes time. There's just no quick or easy way to kiss all the toads you gotta kiss to find them.

[BradAndJanet 70]

Excellent post, JnCC.

 

-B

[curiousagain 326]

Great post, JnCC, I totally understand the one woman for three hours thing. Some of my best days are what I call days without accountability. Me, a female friend, the king size bed, a stereo, some wine, and a whole day to kill, and my Son out of town.

 

But, the multiple women for an hour. Ooooh yeah. I'm there too.

 

One must be flexible to the situation.

 

But again, great Post

[EternallySingle 32]

Thank you, JnCC

[robnbarb 40]

This is a tad presumptuos on my part, but I would assume the single male has never found another single woman that was to his likeing.

 

Quite naturally there are those who are just jerks, but that is not all single males.

 

Also think about how many married men have the MFM fantasy. I am sure the Single males have it too.

 

There are plenty of jerk single males, as well as jerk couples. the point is that we don't question why the couples want extra partners, so I have never gotten this idea of questioning single males as well.

[SDbaldman 15]

Great post JNC you were able to capture what I was trying to express in my earlier post A good summation of what I've experienced over the years

J.R.

[Dr Jekyll 15]

Great post JnCC...

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Belkin I think you may have read more into my post than I intended when I wrote it, although having written it several months ago I can't tell you exactly what I was thinking at that moment.

 

I have nothing against single males, when I was swinging as a couple, most of our swinging was done with single males. The good single males may be few and far between but they are out there. We have a few here on this board that I only wish were an example of the majority of single males (swinging or not).

 

My post was in response to the original post regarding guys who find it so hard to be active in swinging. When it comes down to it, if you can't find women to date (on a one on one basis) then you probably won't be successful in swinging. However, if you are a single male who is successful in the dating world then you will probably be successful in swinging. It's just a matter of a) do you really have to choose one over the other, b) which would you choose if you had to make the choice and c) why?

 

I think the biggest issue is the finding a single female that they can be comfortable enough with to bring up these interests/fantasies and one who would be willing in sharing them with him.

[ATAK 15]

Thank you, JnCC

 

Ditto. Great Post.

[mfmyeahbaby 19]

I've stopped looking for couples. I still have my profile on SLS and I update it every two or three months, but I've made it clear there that I'm available if anyone wants to meet me, and because of where I live, I really don't see that happening. So in a way I have given up on swinging, because I don't initiate contact with couples anymore, just single women.

 

To me, thats dating. Yes, its dating with the intention of hooking up with someone who might be interested in some no-strings attached sex (and in the back of my mind the hope that a connection beyond sex might occur as well), but I've given up on clubs and pursuing couples. I'd rather spend my energy pursuing single women outside of swinging, then single women involved in swinging. I leave it up to couples to want to get to know me and ask me to join them, not petition them to let me join them for what may only be a string of one night stands.

 

well I dont want to appear as just one of those couples, we are very sincere and serious. yes this is just the male part for now but she to reads. Just speaking for myself I feel that you bring a new light to what we consider great play. I personally enjoy your insight on things and she likes your personality. given the opportunity we would luv to get to know you. I