Am I looking for too much of an emotional connection?

[Pollyanna000 15]

Hi everyone, I'm very new to this, so please pardon my ignorance.

 

My husband and I invited a male friend in a few months ago and really enjoyed it. I am very attracted to him and count him as a great friend, and had a fantastic time playing. We had two wonderful experiences and then he got a non-swinging girlfriend. After that, we slowly got up the courage to discover the online swinging community. Personal ads and chat haven't worked, so we got really brave and decided to go to an on-site house party last night.

 

We had fun. I experienced my first girl-on-girl play, and he got his first female swing action. At the time I had no problem with the proceedings. But later on in the night I started to feel guilty - I barely knew these people's names, and I felt no real connection with them. They were nice enough, and definitely attractive (not to mention talented), but I felt that I was missing the connection I had experienced with my friend.

 

My first reaction to these feelings is that I'm just seeing things that aren't there. I'm sure my friend didn't care about "connections" when he was having sex with me. Perhaps I'm looking for the wrong thing? Am I looking for too emotional a relationship? Is swinging supposed to be just cut-and-dried anonymous sex? Or am I right in thinking I should at least feel something for the person I'm having sex with?

 

My husband and I agree that we'd much prefer to get to know people first and have a real friendship with them before we get naked. I know many people here say the same thing. Does anonymous sex make you feel guilty, too? Is looking for emotional attachment in swinger sex the wrong idea?

 

Thanks for any help, I'm confused as all hell today.

[wrnakedru 38]

There's no right or wrong that applies to everyone. You and your hubby have the choice of what feels right for the two of you and it would be wrong if you attempted to do things differently.

 

Some view playtime as "just sex" after all, so the anonymous angle is not disturbing to them. In fact, some prefer to play only out of town with those there is no chance of repeat encounters with - feeling that keeps it as "just sex" with no possibility of interference in their day to day lives.

 

Others find that prospect to be too "cut and dried" to interest them. They want to know their playmates well enough to feel a connection, and feel the experience is enhanced because of that.

 

Many seek to find playmates with enough in common they can enjoy a friendship that includes shared non-intimate activity.

 

Some are flexible - and go with what works for them on whatever given occasion, not feeling that all their playmates must be of the same sort of category.

 

If the quickly-elevating activity of an on-premises club seems too cold to you, you may want to try the off-premise clubs. Or utilize the online sites to make initial contact with others - and seek others who want a chance to get to know each other prior to activity.

 

The choice is yours to make - enjoy yourselves!

 

WR

[244somes 15]

Hi,

 

There are few things in life which offer as much fulfillment as

 

Great friends and Great sex

 

It seems natural to us to put them both together.

 

Jennifer

[Pollyanna000 15]

Thanks for the posts.

 

We've been looking for off-premise stuff and it seems that there's not much near us. I guess we should go for that and drive the distance and/or spend the extra money for a membership. The online sites don't seem to work very well, but maybe it's just because we're inexperienced at this.

 

I have to say I don't like how I feel today about what went on last night. You're right WR, it's my choice, and not all facets of swinging are for everyone. I thought that I could make this leap but I guess I can't, at least, not yet.

 

I'm not entirely scared off though. I just want this to be more meaningful.

[Spoomonkey 421]

We started out really feeling like we would need the connection of friendship with our playmates - and I think we go into every play situation with that hope. But - over time that ideal has died, becoming less of an expectation and more of a latent, unfulfilled hope.

 

I'd venture to guess that just about everyone in the lifestyle has a desire to see those great in the bedroom and out kind of friendships develop, but I think they are pretty rare. I think the only time we've ever felt guilty has been when we have played with people with whom we sort of knew ahead of time that we weren't going to be friends with. Something about the moment just worked for us - but we could tell that they weren't the kind of people we'd be interested in hanging out with.

 

Maybe after a while, you get jaded. You hope for friendships, but let yourself accept the fact that they are hard to come by. So, you live the lifestyle one experience at a time, keeping yourself open to the lightening strike that could be something more.

 

Spoomonkey

[NakedInSeattle 159]

Reminds me of a profile I read recently. I went something like this.

 

The friendship angle is overrated. It takes a long time to establish a good friendship but good sex can happen in a hot second. Why worry about which comes first.

 

We have made real good couple friends after we found that the sex was great. Wouldn't it be a shame if you work for a long time on the friendship angle and then the sex fizzles rather than sizzles? I bet the friendship would end.

 

The other important point (already made) is that you have to do what is comfortable for you. Anything else will spoil the experience. And what an experience it can be!

 

Thanks for letting me put in the 21/2 cents worth.

[Chika 15]

We've also had a range of experiences in this regard. Each worked in its own way.

 

We've made some very good friends in this lifestyle that we see on a regular or semi-regular basis. We get together and socialize in the way you would expect friends to socialize with the added benefit of knowing that we'll enjoy some great sex sometime along the way. (Many times when time permits!) l

 

We've also had those hot, nearly spur of the moment encounters with people who we had a great time with then and there but knew that we weren't going to be fast friends when it was all said and done. I think this has always been a mutual feeling. I don't think the other parties engaged with us had any delusions about it being anything beyond a great physical encounter to be enjoyed in the moment.

 

Typically the former has occurred as a result of contact initiated on a site such as SLS and the latter has occurred in a club setting.

 

We'd say that both kinds of situations have their merits. The point of this for us is to enjoy ourselves and that we do in both cases. If friendships develop, all the better but in the end we've done what we had hoped to do in this lifestyle, which is to have great sex with others and to bring the energy of all that back to our private sex lives.

 

I think it's important to note that even when friendships develop, they do not necessarily last forever any more than they do in other areas of our lives. Sometimes people come into your life for very long periods. Others are there more briefly. Regardless, you think of them as friends. We all just move along in our lives. We fit into peoples lives and they in ours in different ways and for different periods of time but they all have value.

[Pollyanna000 15]

Thanks again for the comments.

 

As I think more and more on this, the more I know that sex with strangers is not what I'm looking for at the moment. I think I need a real relationship with people first. I had some great sex at the party, and I enjoyed it while it was happening...but I can't shake a certain disappointment. I mean, I had my first girl/girl experiences, my husband had his first swing with a female, and I don't even know those people! I feel like I could have had a real memorable, meaningful experience, but it was just cheap quick sex.

 

We've made some very good friends in this lifestyle that we see on a regular or semi-regular basis. We get together and socialize in the way you would expect friends to socialize with the added benefit of knowing that we'll enjoy some great sex sometime along the way. (Many times when time permits!) l

Now THIS is what I'm looking for.

 

Wouldn't it be a shame if you work for a long time on the friendship angle and then the sex fizzles rather than sizzles? I bet the friendship would end.

Well I hope not! Part of the basic requirements for swinging is a sense of humor, right? Being able to look at a failed sexual attempt as just another silly mishap in a friendship and move on is important. Much the same way a misunderstanding or argument between friends can be gotten over.

[good times 991]

It's kind of funny that when I think about it, the people we have made friends with in the lifestyle we have sex with very rarely. I would say that if we had the requirement that we had to be friends before we had sex that we would have given up a long time ago. Forming friendships is rare and since we have been swinging we have only formed good friendships with a few people we have met through swinging. On the other hand we know a quite a few couples that excite us sexually, and we have a great time playing with them, but don't have much in common beyond that. We are involved in swinging for the sex, and while it is a bonus to become friends with people we swing with, that isn't what we are looking for, nor does it bother us a great deal if someone just enjoys our company for ocasional sex. I have met a lot of people recently that say they would like to have sex with us but need to get to know us and become friends first. We have yet to either have sex with any of these people or become friends. I think it is because we look for different qualities in our friends than we do for our playmates. But to each their own, you have to do what feels right for you in the end.

[BradAndJanet 70]

In the beginning, we held the belief that we needed to become friends first before having sex would feel 'right' for us. In practice, however, we've found that we do just fine with more casual encounters and, in fact, we prefer keeping things that way. As several others have mentioned, friendships are rare and hard to come by, and finding people who make compatible friends and with whom we share a mutual sexual attraction is even more difficult. We would love to have that happen, but as good times says, we'd be waiting a long time if that were a requirement!

 

Having said that though, I'm not implying that what you're looking for is wrong, Pollyanna000, but it may prove to be a longer search and you'll need patience. However, it's not about quantity, but quality and you need to do what makes sense for you.

 

Chica, I like what you said about friends. Yes, some are there for a long while, some only a short time, but all of them add value to our lives. So, if anyone has a friend they haven't seen in a while, send them a note today. They'll be glad to hear from you.

 

-B

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Regardless of whether or not your friend felt a connection during sex (and if he was a friend he probably did), you did and that is evidently important to you.

 

Some people can have "just sex" with absolutely no ties, but others just aren't built that way and they need to know the people first and need to feel comfortable.

 

I've had plenty of both but I would take the swinging with friends over the swinging with strangers any day. Of course, sometimes it takes less time to make a friend than others

[Pollyanna000 15]

Regardless of whether or not your friend felt a connection during sex (and if he was a friend he probably did), you did and that is evidently important to you.

Thank you for saying this. People say "everyone is different, do what feels right for you", etc, but then they say that the friends thing is hard to come by and more of an ideal. That makes me feel like I'm setting myself up for disappointment, and that maybe I wouldn't make a very good swinger. But saying that it's "evidently important" makes me realize that like it or not, this is who I am, and if I'm not going to be comfortable with something I shouldn't feel like a failure because of it.

 

In any case I feel better as time goes on. I was worried that it would affect how I view sex with my husband but we shattered that today. We have been working on my friend and his girlfriend for a while - perhaps just a little more of a direct approach would actually get us results? I guess that's for another thread.

[good times 991]

But saying that it's "evidently important" makes me realize that like it or not, this is who I am, and if I'm not going to be comfortable with something I shouldn't feel like a failure because of it.

 

 

Absolutely right.

[DBStPete 20]

Or perhaps something to think about is just what is that "connection" you seek?

 

We're facing a similar dilemma. At one end of the spectrum is sex with your partner-till-the-end-of-the-universe. At the other might be something like a glory hole. While we all agree on the first, how far you want to go along that spectrum towards the glory hole is really the question, and the answer is different for each of us.

 

When you're sitting back thinking about it, you want lots of "connection". In the heat of passion, it doesn't seem so terribly important. But then afterwards the importance may come back, a little, or a lot.

 

For me, since we mostly do MFM, what I'm thinking about is whether I want this guy boffing my wife. Do I like him well enough to think that's cool, or is it going to bug me? And the answer is, I have to "like" him. I don't have to necessarily know a lot about him, but I have to like his energy, his vibe, his manner, his presence, his personality. If he has that, and a nice one, and knows what to do with it, cool beans. That's the level of "connection" I think I need, as a minimum.

 

Even that seemingly minimal level of "connection" cuts out quite a few people and situations. Add in that the better half has her own criteria for "connection", and the number gets smaller still. But still not too bad.

 

If we can do more than that, great. But as others have pointed out, if you set your sights too high it's likely to be a long wait. My suggestion is to set your sights lower, but still acceptable to you, and hope that out of those you meet a star rises above the others.

 

Something else to consider is this, and it's something that actually causes us some trouble sometimes, I think. Relationships take time and energy. The more of both you put in, constructively, the stronger you build it. That is to say, the stronger is your "connection".

 

If you've been married for any length of time, there's no way any single can compete with that. It's not possible, they don't have the hours in with you.

 

We've been married a long time (31 years Friday) and have always had a really strong relationship. We've had more than one single remark to us that they actually found the strength of our relationship intimidating when they were with us. With each other, it can be like we're functioning on a different plane from those around us. We can invite you to our bedroom, but we can't bring you to that place where we live. It's inevitable that a sensitive single knows that and is perhaps a little bothered by it.

 

By the same token, if we were to demand of singles that they join us in that space, or even aspire to it, we'd never get anywhere. We could never have that level of connection with another person, if for no other reason than the sheer years we've been together.

 

So we have to compromise. We want new friends and lovers, but we'll never have that connection. We have to settle for what we can get, or do without. For me, that means I have to "like you".

 

Sorry for the rambling. I do that.

 

DBStPete/D

[curiouscpl0105k 16]

 

My first reaction to these feelings is that I'm just seeing things that aren't there. I'm sure my friend didn't care about "connections" when he was having sex with me. Perhaps I'm looking for the wrong thing? Am I looking for too emotional a relationship? Is swinging supposed to be just cut-and-dried anonymous sex? Or am I right in thinking I should at least feel something for the person I'm having sex with?

 

My husband and I agree that we'd much prefer to get to know people first and have a real friendship with them before we get naked. I know many people here say the same thing. Does anonymous sex make you feel guilty, too? Is looking for emotional attachment in swinger sex the wrong idea?

 

Thanks for any help, I'm confused as all hell today.

I am glad i saw this post! your comments seem so familiar b/c we have been saying this for weeks. being that the hubby and i are new to this we would love to be able to find a couple that we can be social w/ enjoy the same things and can hang out.....but b/c we are open and friendly there are also the benefits of saying "hey guys...wanna go back to the house and play tonite after the concert?!"

i know just what you mean and i guess it all depends.....we hope to visit one of the swinger parties soon and maybe i will have a better idea then....but i am nervous too b/c i am the kind of person who likes to feel like i know something about the people i am planning on being intimate with......we'll see

cheers!

[curiouscpl0105k 16]

i know just what you mean and i guess it all depends.....we hope to visit one of the swinger parties soon and maybe i will have a better idea then....but i am nervous too b/c i am the kind of person who likes to feel like i know something about the people i am planning on being intimate with......we'll see

cheers!

 

i am quoting myself to add that i also agree with what others have said here as far as the "instant hot sex" goes......i think i will be able to do that (just sex....no ties) in a club/party type situation b/c yes that is what youa re all htere for! but i still prefer the idea of not having to go out and have sex with total strangers all of the time......i am guessing that these are all things that we discover as time and experiences pass.

 

cheers!

[Pollyanna000 15]

Sorry for the rambling. I do that.

 

DBStPete/D

DBStPete, don't say that! Thank you thank you thank you! I really like what you said. All of it is true!

 

Just thinking about it in that way proves to me that I've got my head on straight. I know that the connections will never be the same as the one I have with my husband, and I never expected that. The way I felt with my friend was nowhere near that kind of intimacy. It was somewhere along the scale you mentioned, and in an appropriately moderate spot. If I keep thinking of it as a scale instead of a black or white situation, I feel much better.

 

I definitely learned something from your post. Thanks.

 

curiouscpl0105k, I hope you can work out where you stand as well. It was the inner conflict that was killing me....I'm enjoying this part of myself, but the odd guilt hit me like a brick.

[DBL D 120]

Wow! You have all helped to open my eyes on this relationship thing. I think that you'd probably have less sex with each other as times goes by if you become great friends. (And just what is a great friend? Hah, there's another thread waiting to happen.)

 

We did have a sorta one-niter with a couple and we both felt weird about it later, but I'd still do it again. It's all part of the total education of DBL D.

 

Male D

[couplefromma 15]

We have posted many times that we like to make friends as well as lovers. We think there is nothing better then playing with friends and being able to share times in and out of the bedroom. The trust you build leads to exciting adventures.

 

However, this is not the easiest thing to do but its the way we like to pursue this lifestyle. We would rather be with friends and share a long time relationship with them then go bed hopping

[xxoticangel 99]

Over the years we have swung with friends, became friends with swingers, and had numerous one night stands. We have found that friendships that develop with swinging partners made for the best sex. The more you play with someone the more you pickup on what they like and the more comfortable you become. Swinging with friends eventually turned into disaster (one 5 years later but still a disaster). One night stands are always fun but sometimes confusing. The first sight, kiss, and taste are all great but the "why can't I get her to cum"'s or "why can't he get it up"'s can be uncomfortable. One couple we met at a club turned into a 2 year booty call relationship. We had nothing in common but our views on swinging and sex. We had a great time at the club and ended up playing with once every 3-6 months for over two years. We would get a hotel with two beds about half way between on a Saturday night. Meet early for a predinner quickie, get something to eat, then back to the room for more adult fun. We never even knew their last name but had a great time with them until he transfered to the left coast. They weren't friends by any definition but the sex was good and there isn't a lot of conversation when your mouth is full.

[AZ Dreaming 15]

I agree that it's better to play with someone that you know some what first, but what if that couple want more out of it then you do? We played with a couple that we had know for about 5 years. They seem to want a " relationship" too. The wife wants to go with my husband for a coke or lunch and the husband wants the same with me. They have even expressed love for us. I am really confused by this as I don't want or need to love anyone but my husband. I just want to have fun sexually with them. They seem to want or need to talk all the time and see us all the time. So how do you get somewhere in the middle?

 

Sorry I hope I expessed myself ok. I am new to posting and a little nervous to ask about this and write about what I'm feeling. Thanks for all the wonderful options and info on this board!!

S

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I agree that it's better to play with someone that you know some what first, but what if that couple want more out of it then you do? We played with a couple that we had know for about 5 years. They seem to want a " relationship" too. The wife wants to go with my husband for a coke or lunch and the husband wants the same with me. They have even expressed love for us. I am really confused by this as I don't want or need to love anyone but my husband. I just want to have fun sexually with them. They seem to want or need to talk all the time and see us all the time. So how do you get somewhere in the middle?

 

Sorry I hope I expessed myself ok. I am new to posting and a little nervous to ask about this and write about what I'm feeling. Thanks for all the wonderful options and info on this board!!

S

You did a great job posting AZ Dreaming.

 

When swinger friends start to talk of love, and it makes you uncomfortable, it is a warning sign not to ignore.

 

I would be upfront with your friends. You and your husband should sit down with them and communicate your concerns. Their interest in meeting each of you privately is a red fladg This is becoming a disjointed arrangement that would make me uncomfortable. I can see why you feel this way.

 

There may be no "middle" with these people. You may be past that. Whatever you work out I think right now you might suggest a time out. Give everyone time to think.

 

LM

[Pollyanna000 15]

It's amazing...I never expected there were so many types of swing relationships on the scale. But now that I'm reading about it, I keep thinking "duh!"

[DBStPete 20]

They have even expressed love for us. I am really confused by this as I don't want or need to love anyone but my husband. I just want to have fun sexually with them. They seem to want or need to talk all the time and see us all the time. So how do you get somewhere in the middle?

 

Sorry I hope I expessed myself ok. I am new to posting and a little nervous to ask about this and write about what I'm feeling. Thanks for all the wonderful options and info on this board!!

 

You did just great. Welcome!

 

There is another "subculture", if you will, parallel to swinging, known as "polyamory", or "poly". These are folks who are interested in having serious, committed relationships with more than just their spouse. There are a myriad variations on this, even more than the variations in swinging! Variations in combinations of adults, obviously, but also variations in depth of commitment, degree of faithfulness to the "family", who lives together, child custody, legal arrangements, etc., and that's besides the sex. People's involvement in this ranges from a kind of "friendship plus" all the way to as close to full-blown legal polygamy as they can get.

 

I should point out that many folks in poly look down their noses at swingers and go to great pains to distinguish what they do from swinging. By the same token, many in swinging feel that excessive emotional involvement is just that. But there are folks who are open-minded about both, who see it all as a continuum, and who live (or at least fantasize) somewhere in the middle.

 

It sounds like your friends, whether they use the label or not, are at the lower end of the polyamory curve. Poly has it's own potential rewards and emotional traps. If you want to understand them, you might try some Googling. There is some good material out there. There's also a Poly forum on AFF.

 

I think it *is* possible for people to have something that is deeper than "friends with benefits", but less than polygamy. It's rare, it's not easy, but I've seen cases of it. IMO it requires people who are very emotionally mature and secure.

 

There's a Robert Heinlein quote that I'll paraphrase: "Love is the state of mind where another person's happiness is *essential* to your own".

 

Boy. Is that ever hard to live sometimes. But I truly believe (and today happens to be our 31st wedding anniversary), that this is the truest definition I've ever seen.

 

It's really hard to live the above with one other person, over a long period of time (hopefully life). It's exponentially harder to do with more than one other. I think this is why, in practice, "successful" polygamy has been very rare. By "successful", I mean a relationship that is as fulfilling for all involved as a 2-person marriage. There is plenty of polygamy in the world that is oppressive - that's not part of this discussion.

 

We've tried to make poly work a few times but never managed it, or even really came close. This was with vanilla people, which I think is part of the problem. If something came along in the lifestyle - eh? Who knows? It's not likely, but I'm just an analytical realist who believes in miracles.

 

So, anyway, sorry for the ramble, thought it might give you some jumping-off points for understanding what you're seeing and feeling, and terms to plug into Google for more learning.

 

D, of DBStPete

[DBStPete 20]

Another little comment on poly: I suspect that in some senses it can't work.

 

Here's what we found. I think we'd been married about 10 years or so. We were trying to ease another guy (call him L) into the relationship in a committed way. A second husband, more or less, or at least that was the potential long-term goal.

 

After a while it became apparent that, even though we all loved each other, the very fact of that huge pre-existing bond between B and I was itself a significant barrier. She and I were connected with each other in a way he could never be precisely because he could never make up those lost 10 years. Our relationship with him would always be 10 years "smaller", ten years "behind".

 

It's bad enough, if your spouse was previously married, to have to be in "competition" with that dead or gone spouse. Now imagine that the spouse is still there and sharing the bed and breakfast table with you! Pretty intimidating. So that's why I think this is not common.

 

D, of DBStPete

[AZ Dreaming 15]

Sorry Pollyanna for changing this thread a little bit!!

 

I guess my problem is that these friends knew that my husband and myself had certain bounderies and I feel like they keep pressuring us to change. My bounderies are a little different then my husbands. I want everything together, including emails, phone calls, going out with them and playtime. He is ok with doing all of the above on our own. He understands where I am at and does not push to play alone but we have gone out on "dates" with the other couple on our own. We also receive phone calls and emails from them to our cellphones and private email. I am trying to push my bounderies somewhat so my husband and I came up with our own rules or bounderies when we are alone with the other spouse of the couple. I just don't really find this fun at all.To me if I want to go on a date I want to go for a nice dinner with the man I love, my husband!! My husband does seem to like to do this and I want him to enjoy himself. We talk about it all the time and are completly honest with each other. I just don't like having someone else who is not my husband tell me he is in love with me! It makes me feel like they are phony! How can he say he loves me he doesn't even really know me that well. And she has told me she is in love with my husband also.Oh and the husband told me that his wife has always wanted two husbands. That is a really wierd sensation!! I think we need to run away from this couple and my husband thinks that things will be ok. But he knows and has said it is totally up to me because the most important thing will always be us.

I told him yesterday that I am not going to go do "alone time" with the husband anymore and he is fine with that and says then he won't go with the wife anymore. I guess I just needed to vent about this because this is one issue that my husband and I don't quiet see eye to eye on.( ok so there is more then one thing!! )

 

Thanks for letting me vent and again I hope I made myself clear and did not babble to much!!

 

S

[guitarlover 16]

As my partner and I are still swing virgins but, getting closer to taking the next step, I mentioned to her that I'd rather have a bit more in common with another couple than just our mutual horniness. I understand the other angle of keeping it less personal, but, I think, personally, that it would be more fullfilling if we had more of a connection than just wanting to ball each other.