A lesson learned too late

[DragonHeart 15]

(I know this is long, but I needed to write it all out - a type of catharsis for my broken heart. Thank you ahead of time for taking the time to read it and respond if you so choose. Sincerely, Heart)

 

A few weeks ago, my boyfriend and I went to a swinger’s club and had an amazing time together. We danced, drank and talked with several fun couples. We found a couple we were both interested in and formed a really good bond with, but they needed to leave early and so nothing happened.

 

At that point, I thought he and I would just end up having awesome sex in a group room. But what happened was he went and approached a woman he had spotted across the room and told her he thought she was very attractive, while I sat on the couch (her partner was out of the room.)

 

When my boyfriend came back, we went into the play room. There, he strapped me to a bondage wall and blindfolded me. As he was playing with me, this woman and her partner came over and began touching me and kissing me. The woman also began touching and kissing my boyfriend. He then told me that she was sucking on him.

 

The whole time this was happening, I felt very disjointed from the whole situation. I had no emotional attachment to this couple and only knew that my boyfriend was interested in this woman. And now here she was sucking on him – without asking me first!

 

My boyfriend thought I would get very excited by the bondage experience, but I was totally dry. I didn’t like not knowing who was kissing me (I had not met either of them), or what he was doing with her. We then went into a private room and the experience just got worse. My boyfriend was very focused on her, while her partner came over and put his penis in my mouth. I was drunk, so I went along with it, but I felt really uncomfortable. Then I watched as my boyfriend had sex with this woman, without getting my okay first.

 

It was awful. I cried all the way home. First of all, I was disappointed in myself for getting so jealous – I felt like I had let him down as a partner. But I was also crying because I felt betrayed by him – that he had done these things without asking, which is, as is my understanding, the "rules" of swinging.

 

In the morning, I came to realize two things led to that bad experience. First, I was drunk and had overreacted, and second, we hadn’t communicated – him or me. He said, "Why didn’t you tell me you were uncomfortable?" And I said, "Why didn’t you ask me before doing things with her?"

 

I wanted to blame him for my reaction, but ultimately it was my fault because I didn’t communicate. The truth is, in the moment, it didn’t even occur to me that I could say something. Maybe it’s growing up female and being socialized to go along with things, but the thought of me interrupting him and saying, "Um, excuse me, but I don’t even know that woman and I’m not comfortable with you going all the way with her" was not a thought that entered my drunken mind. It was only later that I was able to verbalize what I had been feeling.

 

I came to realize that I had been uncomfortable because I had no emotional connection to this woman. All I knew was that she was some woman he had felt attracted to across the room. I came to realize that for me, I need to have an emotional connection with the woman or couple for me to be comfortable having my boyfriend be that intimate with her. Once I know her story and get to know her a little bit, maybe dance or laugh together, then I don’t mind sharing my boyfriend with her. It excites me because he really is amazing. But when the connection is just between him and another woman, with me on the sidelines, I feel hurt and angry.

 

We were both so traumatized by this experience of me crying all night that we broke up. He says he needs to be with someone who’s excited for him when he’s with another woman, and I say I would be supportive if I knew the woman beyond the point of her being just some stranger he thinks is sexy.

 

Is this a common situation, where the woman needs an emotional connection? I feel like he expects me to be like him, but I’m not.

[DBStPete 20]

This is just a quick response as I have to head off to work. More later. I did read your other thread as well.

 

Briefly, and to be blunt, your BF is an insensitive, selfish lout. This is not unusual in men of his age.

 

Not only was he boorish to you, his little deal of hitting on a woman while her partner was away is extremely uncool. It's an instant "no way" with us, and I think most couples, because we feel it shows a deceitful nature. It's "cheating".

 

You, on the other hand, are rare and special. Very, very few women in unmarried couples would even consider swinging. And then to engage in these various "edgy" activities, that you didn't really care about, without being asked, just to please him? Lady, that is way above and beyond the call of duty. Way.

 

Almost every woman needs some emotional connection, especially when you're just "starting out" in swinging. It is entirely normal.

 

My initial call? You're way too good for him. He won't change anytime soon. Based on what little we've seen here, he clearly has a very selfish nature. Sorry to be harsh, but there it is.

 

Find a better guy. Seriously. There are really, really good men going unused in the world, and too many louts with nice women like yourself. You can do your part to fix this tragedy.

 

DBStPete/D

[Spoomonkey 421]

When people are new, they simply don't know what to say in certain situations. We played with a new couple recently and at one point in the evening, the wife let a couple of guys touch her even though she didn't want them to. She honestly didn't know that she could say "no". I told her the same thing that you need to understand:

 

"No still means no in a swing club."

 

In fact, I think a woman who can say no is a whole lot sexier than the ones who simply do whatever whenever.

 

I think you are right about how some women feel in the lifestyle, not realizing that they have rights.

 

You both share some of the blame for not speaking up and communicating - but he does win the "daft award" for assuming you into a situation and not talking to you first. The mistake you made of not saying something was serious - you obviously know that. But the way your boyfriend conducted himself was immature, thoughtless and very "un-lifestyle-like". Your SO comes first - before your chance to play with some hot chick across the room.

 

But, more than that, the fact that he could not talk with you and work through the boundary issues afterwards shows me that he really isn't made of the kind of stuff that a swinger husband needs to be made of. He isn't the kind of man who belongs in the lifestyle - and anyone with "I'm taking my ball and going home" mentality; anyone who is that pouty and manipulative needs to grow up before dragging others into the world of swinging.

 

I am sorry that this happened to you. Our first experience had a similar result as yours - only in reverse since I (the husband) was the one who struggled. The difference is that we talked for days, made love like crazy and learned more about each other. We never fought over things because we knew that the mistakes that we made were the kind of mistakes that help you learn what is right and wrong. Now we are very happily involved in the lifestyle and have met many wonderful people.

 

What happened to you two is something that can be worked through and can be a healthy learning experience - but only if both people are adult enough to deal with it.

 

I am truely sorry for your loss - but unless he does some soul searching, you are better off.

 

Spoomonkey

[Vespertine 31]

You, on the other hand, are rare and special. Very, very few women in unmarried couples would even consider swinging. And then to engage in these various "edgy" activities, that you didn't really care about, without being asked, just to please him? Lady, that is way above and beyond the call of duty. Way.

DBStPete/D

 

I agree wholeheartedly with D & Spoo.

 

Don't settle for less than you deserve.

[Rett 15]

You surely picked the right caption for your post "A lesson learned too late".

 

It certainly seems as if your boyfriend had absolutely no respect for your feelings or self-esteem to put you through an experience such as that. Without openly and completely discussing both of your feelings, desires, and expectations both beforehand and while at the club - that's disturbing and a certain road to disaster. It sounds as if he's interested in only one thing and that's sex and disregards any caring or love for you.

 

I think DbStPete has given you some very good advice here.

 

You'll also have to say "no" not only for yourself but also as a couple. I don't think many ladies would put up with this man for an instant.

 

Sorry you learned too late.

[SexhoundDog 18]

He says he needs to be with someone who’s excited for him when he’s with another woman

 

Heart, I feel for you that you had such an incredibly insensitive bastard for a boyfriend. I couldn't agree more with all that the others have posted. He didn't give a rat's ass about what was up with you, was focused way too much on the other woman and totally disregarding your feelings. I just gotta say it . . what an asshole!

 

The way you've written indicates to me that you are an extremely sensitive and caring person. I hope that you'll write this off as a bad experience with a bad person and not get a bad opinion of the swing community. As most of the regulars quite frequently state, they're in it for their mates pleasure. Whether you ever swing again or not, my wish for you is that you end up finding the kind of man you deserve. The shithead you just broke up with ain't the one, and I hope you clearly see that.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Heart -

 

Stick around with us. We'll help you through this.

 

I think you will find, if you take time to read this board, that you have been expecting too much from yourself. The blindfold and bondage is usually saved for a playtime when you are very familiar with the people you play with and have developed trust, or, if you are experienced with this type of play and have done it with strangers before.

 

Dito to what the others have said.

 

I, too, like to feel an emotional connection with people before I play with them. It doesn't have to be deep, but I want to know them enough to at least like them as human beings.

 

In time I think you will find that the break up with your boyfriend, and this swinging experience, was a blessing in disguise.

 

LM

[Miss_Piggy 98]

The advice you've received already is excellent. The only thing I'd like to ad is with regards to the following comment:

 

felt betrayed by him – that he had done these things without asking, which is, as is my understanding, the "rules" of swinging.

 

Another lesson to be learned here is that with swinging there are no general rules. You have to define each and every rule on your own for yourself. This is where the communication is so important.

 

It sounds to me like you have had a major eye opening experience. I'm sorry about what this has done to your relationship.

 

Let's try to look on the bright side though. The qualities of your boyfriend's personality existed prior to this club experience. The benefit is that you were given the opportunity to see another side to your boyfriend. The challenge now if to accpet this reality as it is and move on to bigger and better things. Good luck to you.

 

~Piggy

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

The lack of communication was BOTH parts. I don't know what your boundaries were before you went and maybe you didn't have any (which was yet another problem), but he was just as much at fault for not involving you in the decision of who you played with and putting you in that situation as you were of not saying something when you had the chance.

 

He's a jerk for breaking up with you over this and from the sounds of it he has no desire to have a relationship with good communication where both parties have a say of what is going on, he simply wants someone who will stand by and let him have sex with whoever he wants.

 

To answer your question, this isn't common and this is another example of why swinging is something that should only be done by couples who already have good communication and a strong relationship.

[LaStrata 16]

You definately are entitled to better treatment than your bf gave you - his behavior had no sense of partnership - and swinging is partnership - even when you are single you still need to be aware of boundaries and appropriate condsideration of others, and of oneself. Its sounds to me - wrong person, wrong place and wrong situation. You cannot go into a bodage theme without the complete trust of your partner - and with a partner that has earned it. It sounds like it was an onsite premises - this is not a place for people new in the lifestyle - its just way too much to deal with all at once. Here is also another issue - do not drink if you are going to get drunk. Swinging and drunkness will not mix - you always need your wits about you so you won't find yourself in situations you can't deal with. This can be tricky when one is sober and expereinced. To protect yourself from bad experiences in the future remember swinging is to please yourself and to share that pleasure - it takes alot of trust and communication. Trust comes from yourself first - learn to trust your own judgement and learn to stick to it - you have a right to say no. Do not get drunk - this is putting yourself in a positions in which you will not be able to trust yourself - so don't do it. if you follow some basic guidlines to keep yourself safe, you can be quite safe and confident even if you end up making a mistake and swing with a partner thats not right for you.

[DBL D 120]

Maybe this is the difference between a "sex club" and a Swingers Dance. Plus you guys weren't married. Communication rules! You did well to hold it in till you got to the car. I am afraid I wouldn't have made it that far if it had been us. Can you say "cut's like a knife?" This would definitely hurt our relationship and probably end any thoughts of doing things like this in the future.

 

I do hope you are doing better now. This could really get to a person.

 

Male D

[curiousagain 326]

I also saw your other post. I think the reasons for this situation have already been explained awfully well and I am in agreement with them. Speaking as a guy, if he wants to leave instead of working things out with you when you were ready to talk it out and continue, let him go. There are about 5 million of us in line for someone like you and we all have much more sense about what it takes to be a man, lover, and swing partner than he does. I hope you refuse to ever speak to him again.

[DragonHeart 15]

Wow! I’m overwhelmed by the heartfelt responses from all of you. Thank you for taking the time to help me with this. I appreciate all the different advice and insight. I wrote to this site because I didn’t have any other outlet for talking about what happened, and now I know I came to the right place.

 

I’d like to just add that I know there are always two sides to every story, and that if he was willing to write out his version of that night, you might also feel sympathetic towards him. He did not intentionally mean to hurt me. He could explain his motivation for approaching the woman as being just a way of finding us a partnership for the night. He could say that his focus on the woman afterwards was because they had focused on me for some time while I was in bondage, and that he wanted to make sure she was pleasured in return.

 

I’m not trying to make him into some selfish monster, because he isn’t at all. I’m just writing out my perception of that moment while I was in the middle of it. I can’t change the way it made me feel at the time – I freaked out and it was bad – but neither can I change his reaction to that expression.

 

He said to me that that night, watching me cry so hard on the way home, was one of the worst nights of his life, and that he never wants to go through that again. That’s one of the main reasons why we broke up, because he wants to avoid the possibility of putting me or him through something like that again. I think he wants to find someone more like him – who is able to fully enjoy all the sexual experiences without emotions getting in the way – although what I’m hearing from all of you is that an emotional bond between the couples is what makes swinging work… (The irony is, the balance of our differences was what made us such a good couple in the first place.)

 

I learned a lot about myself – my likes, my dislikes, my boundaries - and questioned myself deeply about why I didn’t say anything while it was happening. I learned that it’s my responsibility to the relationship to express my feelings; it’s not right to blame him for not being able to read my mind.

 

I know that through honest communication, as many of you have said, we could learn from this bad experience and become stronger. But instead, after 15 months together, he’s choosing to walk away, as though the answer can be found in a new partner, when really the answer can be found by looking within ourselves.

 

Sincerely, Heart

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Wonderful post Heart.

 

I sure hope you stay with us here on the board. Your contributions would be very welcomed, I feel sure.

 

While you learn more about swinging, you will also have experience that can help other members.

 

LM

[JKBertha 15]

I'm so sorry you went through that, and I know how hard breaking up can be.

 

My husband and I have been together for 8 years, and I know how I would feel if this happened....devistated.

 

I actually hope for you that you meet someone who you develop a great relationship with, someone who gives you happiness and intimacy.

 

Take care of yourself, and I really wish you the best.

 

-JKBertha

[Dr Jekyll 15]

WOW... What a wonderfull insight into your own situation. It's an incredibly rare and beautiful quality in a person. I admire you for that DragonHeart.

 

I agree with the gist of what everyone said in their responses... Nothing to add there...

 

Good luck in working through this incredibly hard time...

[SexhoundDog 18]

I gotta feeling this fine young lady is gonna find her a fine young man before too long at all. And at some time, she'll share this bad experience with him and really find out what he's like, whether they ever choose to try swinging or not.

 

Don't settle for anything but the best of what you want, Heart. I don't think you'll even have to go looking, the smart ones will come looking for you!

[midnightpassion 15]

Sorry you had that happen to you. from what the others have said. is right on the money. and we all are here to help you anyway we can. i would just like to add one more thing. dont let that turn off the lifestyle. in many cases you might find it better being single and swinging. what i mean we know of many couples that just look for single ladies to play with, and they treat them with with the most respect and class.

[Rett 15]

Hi DragonHeart,

 

I don't think that I can properly express my sympathy for what you have just been through.

 

I know it's hard breaking up , but in this case I think it is to your benefit. The man you date should always make every attempt to make sure you are in a safe, comfortable , and enjoyable situation whatever your physical and mental state are at the time. In this case he failed in every way. He apparently just took you deep into the dungeon of dispare without first communicating fully with you. He also showed no remorse and was extremely callous after the happening by just walking away implying that your emotions were a problem that would not be an issue with a new partner. The true nature of his other side came through. Unfortunatelly there are many men that are true womanizers and play the game for all it's worth to get personal satisfaction. Unfortunately for you , you've learned too late.

 

I'm sure you will find a better partner - one that will always in every situation try to treat you with honesty and respect. Communicate openly with the person you partner with and really get to know them inside and out. You should always feel as if you are the one person that comes first in his heart.

 

I surely hope you can get over the deep scars that this must have left in you.

[lizandtom 512]

Dragon, while I agree with most of the advice posted previously, I have to question one point which may be worth a re-look. Most posts above have pretty much burned your ex bf at the stake, but a comment made by you I find worth re-examinging. You stated that he chooses to walk away because he wants to avoid EVER going through such an awful night as seeing you crying to such extreme. While this may be a cop-out to find someone new, if true it shows concern for your feelings.

 

Although relatively new to the scene, the main rule I (male) have abided by since day one, and reading through this site to know what emotions to deal with, is that you go at the pace of the slowest partner. Number two is set your rules and limits from the beginning and stick by them, and three is always keep the lines of commuication open.

 

Considering you were interested in swinging to start with and he obviously was, it may be worth considering some communication again between you too, if you care about him (being together for such a period as your has to say something...). Only you can know what type of communication that may be...maybe he's called you since then, or written a short note, etc?

 

If you perceive his statement of, "don't want to ever make you cry again so I'm breaking up with you" to be BS, then forget him and get yourself someone new. ONLY YOU could have perceived if he was truly hurt by his actions, or if he was just trying to dodge the relationship.

 

All the best in whatever happens.

[Guest Unregistered]

So many opinions based on one side of a tale. I enjoy the energy that has gone into helping Dragon heart. She is a wonderful, beautiful lady and I love her very much. We have been together for 1.5 years. I'm glad she has found an outlet for herself.

 

There are rules in swinging....at least there should be.

We had solid rules set in place.

3 pinches and game over. No questions asked. No need for explaining.

We have gone over these each and every time we went out to "play".

I did approach a lady and tell her she was beautiful and for her and her boyfriend to come join us when her boyfriend returned. (I made a point of including them both).

I did this because Dragon heart finally got to sit down. Her feet were killing her from dancing with me all night. (Something we share). I asked her permission prior of course. That's how it should be.

 

They did not join us at that time for whatever reason.

 

Dragon heart and I went into the play room. I tied her up to this wall, blindfolded her and started playing with her. This other couple showed up and I asked Dragon heart if it would be cool for them to play with her. She agreed by saying "yes". I held her hand so she could give me the signal if she needed to. This should be an easy way "out". No signal. After 3 of us were playing with just her for over 15 minutes....The "other" girl put my penis in her mouth. I told Dragon heart that she was doing this. Again I held her hand in case there was a problem. Still no signal. I thought things were cool.

 

We untied Dragon Heart and went to a private room. I asked Dragon heart if she wanted to go down on her. She told me that she would rather I go down on the "other women", which I did. I thought things were cool.

 

The rest ot the story is pretty much on track.

 

In this lifestyle communication is a MUST.

 

This is not the first time Dragon heart has failed to communicate her needs, wants, desires.

 

I always seem to hear about them after the damage is done.

We have had many awesome experiences together; however this last one killed both of us and left an awful experience in both out minds, hearts and souls.

 

I believe you have both sides of the story now.

 

In case any of you are still reading this epic.

 

I still love you Dragon Heart... always will.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

To DragonHeart's (ex)boyfriend:

 

I would be very happy if you would register to share your side of the story. There are always 3 sides to any story and we'd love to hear yours. There was another thread started here by DragonHeart, which (in my eyes) makes you look worse than this particular thread did.

[LaStrata 16]

I am glad you chipped in your side of things. I do not believe that it makes dragon heart the bad guy but I also know there are always two sides to every story. I can relate to your view because I also have a partner that refuses to communicate no matter how hard I try to talk things out - and I repeatedly get slammed after the fact - when I had no idea before. Some of the problems that I have run into in swinging is that many are open minded enough and have the desire for the experience but really don't have the emotional and communication skills it takes to be stable and happy in the lifestyle. Swinging requires both partners' skills to be exceptional - both in knowing who you are, what you want , what you don't want and how to communicate that effectively - and kindly. Good luck, it is sad that it was such a painful experience for the both of you.