Broken Full Swap Boundaries

[BuNNyinmi 15]

My husband and I had our first real full swap this past saturday. We had both agreed to some very simply ground rules. Or atleast I thought they were very simply. They were as follows:

 

1. Always wear a condom.

2. Always same room.

3. Never finish with the other person.

4. No kissing.

 

Things did not go quite as planned. I ended up being in a seperate room then my husband. I felt a little disappointed that he let that happen but I also did not stop it. Getting to my concern is that my husband did not follow any of the above agreed upon things we set up prior to our first full swap get together.

 

He has tried to blame it on being drunk and thinking me and the other wife talked about things that were going to happen. I am very disappointed in my husband as in the past with any soft swap encounter we have ever had he has always talked to me about things and made sure everything that was happening was going good for me also. He did no such thing that night.

 

His reason for this is because he says he wanted to do it the way he wanted to do it.

 

I could really use some input on this situation.

[SexhoundDog 18]

He has tried to blame it on being drunk

 

Oh please, this is the most worn out excuse in the world. Tell him you don't buy into that shit.

 

And the other one that got me is "He wanted to do it the way he wanted to do it." I think you'd better set him straight REAL QUICK on this one and say "Uh honey, what about the way WE wanted to do it?"

 

He showed no respect for your feelings whatsoever, a big mistake if he wants you to continue swinging. I'm sorry for you that your husband doesn't appear to get it. I hope you can bring him around.

[BuNNyinmi 15]

I was drunk also and still knew just what I was doing.

 

His response will be that we have been doing this the last 2 1/2 years the way I wanted to do it with not making him feel as if he was included in the lifestyle and activities we did with couples.

Well correct me if I am wrong but we started this lifestyle so I could explore my bi-curious side and we are supposed to move forward at a level that we both are comfortable with. If one of us is not comfortable moving forward as fast as the other but is willing to in the future should that level of comfort not be respected. He keeps telling me that this and that is how it is in the lifestyle (refering to how other couples do things) and we should be doing it that way also. I have read 4 books on the lifestyle and every single one has said that we as a couple should make the lifestyle what we want to make it as a couple. Not what the other couples want. He has yet to read one of those books.

[wrnakedru 38]

Did you come to your list of simple rules together after discussing the things that were important to each of you? Or did you state the ones that you felt should be rules - and he, more or less, agreed to them?

 

I ask because of his remark that he "did things the way he wanted to do them."

 

Your follow up post indicates that prior to this experience you have been involved in activity that, it sounds, didn't actively include him. So you had agreed to going to the "next step", but maybe added the provided set of rules you would feel comfortable following as you expanded your activity.

 

Well, I think it's time to sit down and have that discussion again. You admit that you too did not stop the fact you were separating into different rooms, so it looks like neither of you was holding to the rules. I think maybe it's a good idea to include a new one - a first one, if you will - that no activity should happen when either of you have had "too much" to drink. A drink or two - maybe even three, depending on the time frame - can help serve to ease your nerves, relax you a bit and can be a help when utilized thusly.

 

I believe your experience has taught you both that too much to drink can mar your judgement and can end up with your activity bringing unhappiness to you both. It's all supposed to be about fun, so try to keep a clear enough head to define what exactly is "fun" for both of you - not only at the moment, but later on as well.

 

Take some time to be sure he hasn't been hampered for so long by whatever your prior activity has been that he is just gonna run amok with his new freedom. It is important to remember that yours is the relationship that matters most, and the lasting effects of your activity need to be good ones - not something you have to try to get over - each and every time.

 

Please take time for some serious discussion before you attempt any further playtime. Be honest with one another, so that you have no surprises to deal with in the midst of what should be pleasure.

[BuNNyinmi 15]

We did discuss different things that were important to both of us and came up with the list I posted. He did agree with them. I actually had others that I wanted but let them go because as time went by I realized they were not important enough for me to hang onto.

 

He was involved but just not the way he wanted to be involved. Since day one he has wanted to be a full swap couple. We started this with me exploring the bi side and then moving on to same room sex with own partners and then to soft swap. He has never been happy with any of this. He has pushed all along to move it along faster and faster.

 

Don't get me wrong I did do saturday night for him but I was happy to do it as the other husband is a very attractive man also as my husband is. It was just that we both agreed that there should be some kind of intimacy saved for us after an encounter and these things were the ones we both agreed to.

 

I would held to the rules if anything had happened with me and the other husband and I did atleast hold to the no kissing agreement. Nothing happened with me and him other then oral for him. With that happening I had the hopes that with these agreements at least I could get some sex from my husband but he had finished already and was ready to crash.

[Dave_kat 227]

Dave here, and I've got a couple of questions about this, as perhaps I'm not understanding your set rules. They seem to me already impossible to keep, just from an admittedly male point of view.

 

1. always wear a condom.. no issues there, wouldn't do it any other way

2. always same room, not so much of an issue, the majority of this lifestyle is about seeing the other person enjoy the happenings.

3. Never finish with the other person. Do you mean this as no ending up as two couples sleeping in different beds with the other's spouse, or is this related to orgasm, as in for him not to be able to have an orgasm (or two) without it being with you? When in a 3some situation, I can certainly understand, but when you come to full swing, that may not always be possible and might even seem rude to require him to disengage with her to come over to you to finish off. Part of the lifestyle is enjoying the happiness of the other and partaking in their enjoyment I would think that you as the female would enjoy one or several orgasms while engaging in intercourse (Personally I'd feel terrible if I wasn't able to get you to that point) and I'd think that you'd certainly be able to continue to have more as the party continues. It might take a bit of time to recharge, but after an event/playtime, I'm always back in kat's arms seeking more.

 

4. No kissing. I can somewhat understand that, but I question something as well. For both myself and kat, kissing is the beginning of arousal. A bit of intimacy like necking while talking and gradually building to the excitement of the whole evening. While kissing your S/O is certainly good as part of the build-up, kissing also let's the other party involved get a feel for things, for example, aggressiveness, response to things.

 

Now his response about being drunk I personally think was BS, and letting you go off into a room on your own, big mistake as well.. Truthfully though, if it was the way he wanted to do it, then you both need to sit down and review what happened, where things went wrong, and figure out if there are different viewpoints on what the rules mean, or even what else caused the whole situation

[JKBertha 15]

You know what, that pisses me off and he's not even my husband.

 

I mean, it's like, I would feel great, you had it your way....but crushed me doing it.

 

You know, I am very sorry this happened, and that has to be very hurtful. I don't know how you go on and fix it....but if he were my guy things would stop now. It's not the fact that your rules were unreasonable, cause it doesn't matter what rules were set. It's the fact that you both had agreed....bottom line. And you should never feel pressured or pushed into anything.

 

What do you think would happen to your marriage if you quit swinging? Would he stand by you in that decision? Or would he resent it? Because what he did is put his desires before your trust....and that's not cool.

 

Put him on this board, I'd love to have a rant at him .

 

I do hope you go on to be ok, I really do. And that things work out great. Now I think I must go take a happy pill, cause I'm pissed

[BuNNyinmi 15]

The same room was his idea because it is a huge turn on for him to see me pleasured by someone else and feeling as he is the one allowing it to happen.

 

I mean the never finish as him not cuming with another female. I was under the understanding though that if we are always in the same room that it would not be as complicated for him to finish with only me. I wish him being ready for more later was the case with him but it is not. Once he finishes he is done for the night. And I do see that is asking for a little much at this point. But I would think there are other things that could take the place of him finishing with only me.

 

The no kissing was agreed upon because it is a very intimate thing that would at least give us some intimacy left for just the two of us. We know several couples that do this. Necking is something to us that is completely different then kissing on the lips. I thought we both believed there were plenty of other places on a persons body that could be kissed with out taking away from us sharing something just for us.

 

Yes there are different view points. He is all for anything and everything and has been since day one with no regard for my comfort level.

[dave110256 21]

Sounds to me like a good set of rules to be followed. I would never do it without a condom, never go to a different room and always finish with my wife. The kissing thing I would have to disagree with though, just personally. I find it hard to get intimate without kissing and would never expect my wife not to also. But rules are rules if they were both agreed upon by both parties.

I think it's time to step back and find out just what your husband is looking for with these encounters, maybe he wants to do things his way.............not a good thing in my book.

[ALilOEverything 901]

For me this would be a trust and respect issue. You trusted when you made the agreements that he would adhere to them and he broke the agreement breaking trust. How could you trust what he was going to do if he didn't adhere to the rules the first time and then made excuses how it wasn't his fault (being drunk) and how he wants to be the ones to make the rules anyway. If he respected you he wouldn't have done any of this

 

You both definitely need to take a step back and work on communication, understanding (on his part), respect (again on his part) and rebuild the trust. I wouldn't go back into swinging until he respects the boundaries, does not resent them or you for putting them in place... and understands this is something you're doing for each other, not just him.

[20ishCouple 15]

I'm also very sorry to hear that this has happend to you. Your husband should have respected your opinion and your comfort level. Me, personally, I would never be comfortable with my guy and another girl in a different room. EVER! Even if he wanted to do that, I would have never backed down from the way I feel. That would have ended the whole evening for me. I hope that you and your husband come to terms with what happened during that encounter, and that you will move on and continue to explore the lifestyle. However, I like everyone else who has posted a response, think that it is time to sit down and talk before going on with any encounters. IMO I believe that your rules weren't too much to ask. Especially if you both agreed to them before hand. That is why we set rules, so no boundries are crossed, and nobody gets hurt. Sounds like to me that he needs to look up the meanings of RESPECT and Understanding. Always explore at the pace of the slowest person. This should be common knowledge. If he likes the whole "Full Swap" thing, why would he break the rules? He has to know that this will only make you alot more Uncomfortable. I completely feel for you and hope that things work out for the best. If you ever need to talk, feel free to message me. I'm always here to lend an ear.

 

Ms. 20ish

[WesternSwing 504]

Your rules are pretty simple, straight forward, and very common within the lifestyle. Except for #4 my wife and I have the same rules. So don't let him tell you that "this is the way they do it in the lifestyle" because that's not true for everyone.

 

You two need to talk it out, and he needs to realize that those rules are for both of your enjoyment, as well as your health. Swinging is a couple activity. Both have to be getting something from it. It only works when it is that way.

 

Maybe he'll realize what happened and the next time won't be that way. In the beginning, sometimes toes get stepped on as you learn and realize boundries, even if they were set out to begin with. In our first full swap experience we didn't use condoms, which we had agreed to. Things just got carried away in the heat of the moment. But, we have ever since.

 

Mr. WS

[Vespertine 31]

He is all for anything and everything and has been since day one with no regard for my comfort level.

Definitely take a step back, stop all swinging activity and figure out why you're still willing to swing if he has no regard for your comfort level.

 

I'd have a hard time with some of the ground rules you have set- No kissing, No cumming, but if doing so made my husband uncomfortable, I'd have no choice but to follow them- because I respect his feelings.

 

Are your ground rules just for him or do you refrain from kissing other women too and not orgasming as well?

[BuNNyinmi 15]

No the kissing does not pertain to me kissing other women. It is just kissing the other sex.

 

All he can say about that night is that he was drunk and that is how he wanted to do things. Even after I asked the questions of why if he likes the idea of full swap so much why would he break our agreement and want to risk that it would make me more uncomfortable. He answers that as I am not fit for the lifestyle. No what I am not fit for is his form of the lifestyle where anythings goes from day one.

[20ishCouple 15]

He answers that as I am not fit for the lifestyle. No what I am not fit for is his form of the lifestyle where anythings goes from day one.

 

 

Ya know what my answer to that is? Well if he doesn't think you are fit for the Swinging lifestyle (or his idea of what the swinging lifestyle is all about anyway) then why would he even keep living it? Swinging has to work for the both of you. And while I am sure you are very content with swinging when the rules are followed, you are far from it when the rules are broken. He needs to take your feelings into consideration. That's just not fair. Swinging has to be a mutual agreement between the both of you. How fair is it for you to be uncomfortable while he gets his jollies? It's just not right. I hope your man realizes how good it is to even have a partner who was comfortable and trustworthy enough to even try the lifestyle. But by disregarding the rules that you guys set forth before the encounter even happend, just says that he doesn't value the relationship...thats just my opinion. I'm not meaning to come off rude, disrespectful, hurt you, or make you question your marriage...but thats just how I see it.

[fun_pairTX 26]

Wow BuNNy,

 

If I were you I would immediately stop swinging and not reuurn until all the other issues are settled. There appear to be a bunch including lack of respect and hostility. Our prayers are with you both.

[BuNNyinmi 15]

Question my marriage is just what I am doing at this point when we talk on the phone and he gives me another reason for saturday happening the way it did because he finally felt that it was about him. I have not appreciated him being patient for 2 1/2 yrs. Stepping away from the lifestyle is not an option at this point because I pay the price with becoming only his fuck partner and nothing more. The case for that is because this lifetsyle has consumed his side of the relationship and he has made our relationship all about it for him. He says it is always been what I want and nothing else. I suppose it has been because all I ever wanted was to be comfortable with my marriage and feel like I was still wanted in my marriage. But I felt so much like I did not measure up enough for him.

 

Thank you for all you responces and support.

[EvilMJ 65]

. I have not appreciated him being patient for 2 1/2 yrs. Stepping away from the lifestyle is not an option at this point because I pay the price with becoming only his fuck partner and nothing more. The case for that is because this lifetsyle has consumed his side of the relationship and he has made our relationship all about it for him.

 

Thank you for all you responces and support.

 

 

WOW!! I think you have no choice but to step away from swinging and get some counseling. This is not a stable marriage and swinging is only going to continue to make things worse. If he was a true husband to you there would some love and support, but I don't see this here.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

His reason for this is because he says he wanted to do it the way he wanted to do it.

 

To me this line says that he had no intention of keeping the rules.

 

I assume you both agreed to the rules ahead of time and no issues were expressed, yet the above statement says to me that he didn't like the rules from the start and was simply looking for a way to get around them. His EXCUSE that he was drunk, is just that, an excuse... and a convienent one at that.

[jcbicouple 24]

Dito to all of the above.

Your rules were very much like other people have (right down to not kissing) not unreasonable for a couple to have all of the same rules you did.

Your hubby disregarded your rules (Which means he disrespected and hurt you), and it sounds like he needs to do some serious soul searching. He doesn't have a clue what swinging is really about....It's not about just getting off with someone other than your partner: It about still being together (even seperate room couples are still thoughtful of one another) and enjoying sexual pleasures while others are involved.

You definitely need to stop swinging, and work on your relationship.

[CB_n_Red 16]

This is an interesting thread, but I'm afraid I'm going to play a bit of devil's advocate here for a moment.

 

In the initial message Bunnyinmi said that "I ended up being in a seperate room then my husband".

 

My question is how did this happen? Presumably one of you left the room you were both in. I suspect it might be significant for the rest of the discussion if we knew which one left the room with a third party. If it was the husband then I would have no disagreement with all the subsequent comments in the thread, though I am somewhat surprised (if this is the case) that Bunnyinmi didn't stop him there and then. If however it was Bunnyinmi, then did the husband perhaps assume that Bunnyinmi was okay with the rules being broken?

 

I'm not trying to belittle Bunnyinmi's feelings about the broken rules, but experience does suggest that most stories have at least two sides and it could be that there is something here that we are missing. But please, do correct me if I am wrong on this!

 

As everyone else has said, you two need to sit down together and do some serious talking before even thinking about playing again.

 

CB

[BuNNyinmi 15]

Ok I am going to try and answer all the questions here. Sorry this is long I have alot of hurt and mistrust in this relationship now. I will tell you now that this will not be talked about anymore because he feels I dwell on things to much.

 

I got another reason from him last night and that was because he finally felt like it was about him. (This is explained further down why he felt that way.) My questions to that is: could he still had that feeling and been with me also? No he could not have been. He gets me when HE wants it so there for it does not count.

 

I ended up in a different room because the couples house we were at the bathroom is right next to there spare bedroom and the other husband stopped me on the way out. Saying to me that I probably did not want to see what was going on and pulled me into the other room. Yes I am to blame also for letting this happen. I did try to go back into the same room and my husband did see this happening. If there were any of the rules he would have thought I was ok with breaking it would have only been the same room one.

 

The whole story for you is this. We started this lifestyle with the idea of me exploring my bi side. That was the fantasy he wanted to see and I was more then happy to do it because I have always been interested in being with woman. Come to find out now that was not the only thing he was thinking of 2 1/2 yrs ago when we started this. Those are his words not mine. We both agreed from day one to take things slow so we both would be comfortable with things progressing. However, I was the slower of the two and his patience has run out and ran out a long time ago. He tells me I did not include him in thing. I was under the understanding that this was for me to explore and if things changed then we would talk about it. The only talking that would ever happen was him stating what other people are doing. And I understand that it is easier for most of the men in this lifestyle to move along faster. My question for all you men that have a wife that has moved along to the full swap is this. Did things change in your relationship as you were exploring and working on the different levels of swinging such as how your personal relationship was taken care of as a priorty? Let me go ahead and answer this question for my relationship and that is no the personal relationship was not the priorty here. Most of the things I got in the first 5 months of our relationship started being taken away as we went further and further down the road. (Attention, affection, support, being able to express feelings and having them accepted, being able to express the things you want to do.) Stupid me I should have spoke up along time ago and stopped what was happening. Then maybe coming out of the lifestyle for a break or whatever would not be so complicated. What I mean by that is that everything is taken away we do take a break. I had to forced a break earlier in the summer because of some health reasons and it was the worst time of my life. He was so against the break that we hardly even said one word to each other. He says it is because he was trying to adjust to me taking away something that was sexy about me. There is way more to me then this lifestyle but I feel he does not see that anymore.

 

As far as the counseling that will never happen. I have asked about it in the past and he states it is just not for him.

[CB_n_Red 16]

Thanks for clarifying things!

 

It seems to that in spite of the talking you both did, there was a lack of real communication in several key areas, most particularly as regards comfort levels and the speed of progress. I feel that your husband was very wrong to push you as fast as he obviously did and the fact that he did suggests that he probably had other motives all along. My apologies for speaking bluntly, but to this plain-speaking Yorkshireman that's how it looks. Two and a half years isn't a long time!

 

A couple of interesting points there:

 

"He gets me when HE wants it so there for it does not count."

 

What!? Now that is a strange one. I don't get Red "when I want", but rather when we both want. I thought that was an important part of any relationship! As for it not counting..... Where is this guy coming from? I'm thoroughly gobsmacked at that one!

 

He also well out of order in assuming what other couples in the lifestyle do. In our case we talked about swinging on and off for five years before doing anything and neither of us pushed the other. Only once both of us were completely comfortable with what we both wanted to do did we start to turn fantasy into reality. Having said that, I know of others who have reached that point much more quickly and yet others who probably never will. There is no fixed pattern of progress!

 

By no means is it true that men in the lifestyle necessarily move faster either. Quite recently on the Board we have seen women posting about their husbands' reluctance to progress faster. Possibilty more men than women are comfortable making speedier progress but I do think it's important not to generalise. It's still more important for you that your husband doesn't generalise!

 

Considering the rest of your last paragraph, it seems to me that there were issues in your relationship before ever swinging came into the picture. It appears that your husband has been too controlling for your comfort (it might suit some, but clearly didn't suit you). Given those issues it may well have been inadvisable to even contemplate swinging in the first place, though I realise it's a bit late to shut that barn door.

 

In the case of Red and I, our relationship was always strong (married 25 years, together nearly 30 years) and discussing the prospect of swinging made it even stronger. It enabled us to discuss our feelings in greater depth than ever before. On top of that, since we started actually playing our level of communication has got even better. I probably feel closer to my wife now than I ever have done and I know she feels the same.

 

Finally, there is more to any and all of us than the lifestyle! I do feel that proper professional counselling is your only way forwards as a couple. If your husband can't see that then he probably has his too deeply buried in the sand for his own good.

 

Okay, enough of my waffle. I could probably waffle for England given half a chance

 

Good luck! I fear you will need it.

 

CB

[Dave_kat 227]

Kat and I went through a very rough period in our marriage when she started exploring her bisexual side. This was after we had been full swing for years, and I'm out in the field for a 3 week exercise and when I come home on a shower run, she's telling me all about this girl she met and some of her antics.

 

This girl that she had met was a lesbian, and had 0 interest in men. I had problems with that because when we talked about things, we had rules about both of us being there, both of us involved, that sort of thing.

 

I deployed to Kosovo for 6 months with this hanging between us. We had never resolved the issue to decide what exactly we were going to do about things, and things went so far that while I was gone, she went and got divorce paperwork.

 

I came back from 7 months in Kosovo and discovered, much to my dismay, that she had moved a different girl into our house, another lesbian (The first one turned out to actually be ok with my being present and helping me pleasure Kat), but this one was so scared of me physically yet willing to stand up and seriously push those buttons, that kat literally would have to pick nights. One night with me, one night with her. That divorce paperwork was very close to getting filed (I found this out several months later).

 

Then all of a sudden, I decide to go get drunk, and go and talk to a female friend of mine. Just talk. The girl came over and immediately laid into kat for what she was doing. While kat wouldn't listen to me, she listened to this girl explaining that while I had no problems with her being bisexual, it added whole dimensions to our play. I wasn't there for the whole conversation, but I know a lot was said.

 

What the whole thing boils down to is the fact that Kat and I were still in love, kat was having problems with her own sexuality and explorations, and neither of us were communicating effectively. Kat and I had been through so much, and she never could picture herself without me, even though she might be so angry at something I might do.

 

My whole point of this is that I felt completely left out of things while she started exploring and continued on. You say straight out that that you had the understanding that this was for you to explore. I understand that whatever limits you have with other women are your own, and totally support you in saying that if you did not feel comfortable doing something with another person, noone should even think about trying to force you. But at the same time, I say this. You are married, a couple. Anything you do with someone else has a direct effect upon your relationship. You exploring your bisexuality with another woman while he is present or not, and leaving him out of the situation, you're telling him that you can have yours and your others while he cannot enjoy those other things.

 

It's all good to explore sexuality. But as a couple, you should have been doing it together. Him watching while you have the fun will instantly cause a lot of frustration. It takes A LOT of experience for a man to be able to watch his wife have fun, be aroused, keep himself under control, and wait to participate until after the whole thing, especially with his wife there doing this. While seemingly sexist, think about watching your husband play while you were simply watching and not able to do something. Sharing in your experience with each other is what marriage is about, and something your rules seem to specify from the beginning (same room, keep kissing to each other, finish with each other, all of that).

 

You both need to stop and evaluate things. If there are serious problems, stop and listen to each other. Get a friend involved. Someone who knows you both and can play devil's advocate (it's a form of counseling that he might be willing to do). Figure out why you are together in the first place. Why you love each other. What you get from swinging, and what your motivations are. Decide from there what you really need.

 

By the way, those divorce papers I mentioned? We keep them in a file with all of our other important papers, and pull them out every so often to remind us of just how close we came.

[fun_pairTX 26]

Stepping away from the lifestyle is not an option at this point because I pay the price with becoming only his fuck partner and nothing more.

 

BuNNy,

 

I'm sorry to hear that. What you are saying is that the only redeeming part of swinging at this point is that you get to spread him around and you don't get stuck with him yourself. If this is truly the way things are then you need a lawyer, not a counselor. It is too bad you aren't in Texas, it sounds as if he needs a good ass whoopin.

[BuNNyinmi 15]

actually what i am saying by us not being to leave the lifestyle is that we become roommates. which means he hates me because then i have taken away the sexist thing in our relationship. when we took a break over the summer there was no relationship. he took away all affection, attention and everything that a relationship is. I tried so hard to get these things during this time but i damaged our relationship by needing the break and i believe he still has not forgiven me for it. i do not want to spread him around that is actually one of my biggest hang ups that he will not accept about me. what we have had when our relationship was good is the most wonderful thing and i do not want to share him or that with others.

 

what it boils down to for the most part is that he feels he has been patient enough for 2 1/2 yrs and i should be moving forward more and faster because he feels he has given me things i have asked to get back. he has given them on his terms and when he wants to give them. we are only human and all need things in different ways. i have tried and tried to be very direct in the way i need the things i have asked for with nothing. What i have asked for are things like: attention, affection, feeling important, sex earlier in the evening, being able to say things i would like to do without him getting mad at me because it is something he does not want to do, some say in the lifestyle who we meet.

 

yes i believe there has been a problem that he would like the control to be all on his part in this relationship but that will not happen. i have let it happen and now i am kisking myself in the ass for it. i was not raised to be walked all over and that is just what i have let happen. now i am trying to get some self respect, self esteem and control back. since i being in this lifestyle my self esteem has dropped and that is the worst thing for any person i believe. and worst of all not feeling wanted by my own husband unless it has something to do with this lifestyle does not help at all.

 

i do thank all of you for reading my very long responces and giving me your honest opinions on all of this. it is very much appreciated.

[EvilMJ 65]

My dear, the problem is not the lifestyle. The problem is that your marriage is esstentially over. He has made it clear that he does not love you as a husband should love his wife.

 

It is clear that he is not going to seek counselling, he is not willing to do his part to make you marriage work. All that is left is to seek a lawyer.

 

Honestly if your husband hates you and withdrawls everything from you when he is not allowed to participate in swinging activities, then it is time to call it quits. You deserve better than that BS!

[CB_n_Red 16]

Got to agree with EvilMJ.

 

I had started to put together another reply, but that it what it boiled down to.

 

It will be a hard decision to make, but I can see no alternative for you. I just ran the whole thing past Red (just joined me in my workshop) and she agrees.

 

Good luck anyway!

 

CB

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

BuNNy is sounds to me like the damage is already done to your relationship, and was probably done before you guys ever stepped into swinging.... which only serves to intensify just how badly swinging can go for a couple who already has communication issues (as you guys apparantly do). That said, the idea that you can't step away from swinging for fear of how much more it might hurt your relationship is a mute point.

 

Your husband isn't talking to you now, he has no concern for your feelings (thus his not wanting to hear you talk about the situation). From the sounds of it you guys haven't been talking at all the whole time and that's exactly how things were allowed to progress this far and get this out of hand.

 

So the question for you is, your marriage is already falling apart: do you want to save it? Or do you want to help it continue to deteriorate?

[BuNNyinmi 15]

the answer is i want to save it more then anything. i know now there is no chance of it being saved if all he sees in things is the lifestyle. i on the other hand i remember to this day what it was about him that i feel in love with even with it being taken away. i know that it can come back but only if he is willing to remember what it was that made him fall in love with me.

 

what makes this even worse is the fact that we have only been together just short of 3 yrs and married 1 yr, 2 months. i believe that short time together has been part of my problem of not wanting to move forward to fast as to not damage our what used to be a wonderful relationship.

 

i know i have said a lot of bad things about him. he can however be and wonderful man if he wants to. it is however only if he wants to and is willing to. right now it is not how he wants to be.

 

i believe you all are correct that my marriage is headed straight for a divorce. even though that is the last thing i want. i am not someone to give up easy on this stuff. i thought i had found the love of my life but that is proving to be incorrect the more we got involved in the lifestyle.

 

oh we talked but it was all about what he wanted and what he thought about things. all my ideas and thoughts i was made to feel were incorrect.

[SexhoundDog 18]

Bunny,

I guess I've got to ask this question. If you were to say to him "OK Honey, it's time to make a decision. No bullshit, let's make it cut and dry. It's either me and no more lifestyle or you can choose to stay in the lifestyle and it's no more me. What's it gonna be?"

 

What would he say? There's your answer, short and simple.

[biblonde 22]

I agree with sexhounddog....If the lifestyle is more important than you well hun, the marrage is over..plain and simple. I dont mean to sound blunt but i know if my hubby chose the lifestyle over me...well his butt would be out the door pretty darn fast. Nothing is worth having if it makes you miserable. There is no man on earth worth that! You may love him and I am not saying it is going to be easy but really dont you deserve a man who LOVES you with all his heart and treats you like a queen?? Dont be hard on yourself for this. Move on and be happy, with someone who truely loves you for who you are and not a means to get laid by others..The more I read your posts..the more it looks to me is that you are only a means of him getting other women..sorry to sound blunt but I call it as I see it! Best of luck to you and please keep us updated. This may be the hardest thing you will ever do but it will be worth it in the end. You only live once shouldnt it be a happy time? think about it!

[biblonde 22]

Well, I have been re-reading this whole post and remembering that there are two sides to every story..thinking this I noticed some things that just dont seem right. First you say he is the one who broke the rules yet it was you who left the room...granted it was to use the bathroom which is understandable but....you say the other hubby stopped you from going back into the room saying you dont want to see this..okay..my big problem...if a man told me i couldnt go where hubby was...well lets just say he would be wearing his balls as earrings real quick!! Then you were so upset by that you went into another room with this man and gave him oral??? Please..I am not really buying that at all...Something else is going on here and the more I go through this thread the more I pick up on. There is way more going on that what you are saying. I am starting to feel that this isnt your hubbies fault but both yours...maybe he broke the rules but you allowed it..you didnt even try to voice your opinion at all till after the fact. I am feeling as though at the time you really didnt have a problem with the whole thing but then thinking back on it you did and went after hubby full force on the issue. Maybe I am wrong and not reading it right but come on you say NO seperate rooms but you go willingly with this man to another and give him a blow job...if it wasnt willingly then it is flat out Rape which is a whole nother issue in itself!!! Maybe you could clear this up some cause I aint getting it at all.

[Vespertine 31]

Something else is going on here and the more I go through this thread the more I pick up on. There is way more going on that what you are saying.

I was thinking the same thing. :rollseyes

[WesternSwing 504]

Question my marriage is just what I am doing at this point when we talk on the phone and he gives me another reason for saturday happening the way it did because he finally felt that it was about him. I have not appreciated him being patient for 2 1/2 yrs. Stepping away from the lifestyle is not an option at this point because I pay the price with becoming only his fuck partner and nothing more. The case for that is because this lifetsyle has consumed his side of the relationship and he has made our relationship all about it for him. He says it is always been what I want and nothing else. I suppose it has been because all I ever wanted was to be comfortable with my marriage and feel like I was still wanted in my marriage. But I felt so much like I did not measure up enough for him.

 

Thank you for all you responces and support.

 

There are some much deeper issues here than just swinging. It sounds like he feels that your relationship has always been about you, and now he is taking something back for himself. You sound like you feel it is all about him, and if you don't let it be then there won't be a relationship.

 

You both need to stop swinging and get counseling. Swinging is being used as a replacement for eachother, which is not healthy for what there is left of your marriage. You really need to get help and resolve the underlying issues I see oozing out here.

 

And yes, you are beating a dead horse here. Each of your posts is the same thing, over and over, like you're not getting the answer from us you want, so you are going to keep asking until you do. The problem here is that you are not facing the real issue, and it isn't this swinging experience. That is a symptom, not the illness.

 

Stop swinging, get professional relationship help, and let us know how things work out.

 

Mr. WS

[intuition897 2,179]

OMG Bunny, I haven't even finished reading all the posts yet, but I just had to throw my opinion in here.

 

This guy sounds like he has some serious maturity issues. Where do I start?! He makes an excuse (drunk) AND tries to justify the behaviour (just the way he wanted to do it). That makes no sense. If it's justifiable behaviour, why the hell does he need an excuse? Another concern I have is that he not only disrespected you by selfishly barging ahead, he also put his own gratification ahead of your health and safety! Whether or not to use condoms should ALWAYS be a decision made by both halves of a couple. He put you at serious risk!

Don't let him feed you that line of bullshit that you're 'unfit for the lifestyle.' When we're meeting a couple, an attitude like his is exactly the kind that causes Mr. and I to end a date in a hurry. Just because you agreed to try the lifestyle - and he should be grateful for that! - does not mean that he's been given the green light to do whatever his little heart desires. If he's not willing to respect your wishes, don't be afraid to take drastic action; he certainly doesn't seem to be concerned about hurting YOUR feelings, does he? The girls are supposed to reign supreme: when the woman says no, that should be enough. She has spoken. I think he needs a reminder.

[intuition897 2,179]

You both need to stop swinging and get counseling. Swinging is being used as a replacement for eachother, which is not healthy for what there is left of your marriage. You really need to get help and resolve the underlying issues I see oozing out here.

The problem here is that you are not facing the real issue, and it isn't this swinging experience. That is a symptom, not the illness.

Mr. WS

 

WesternSwing is absolutely right. I should've read all the posts (oops, sorry). Hon, you guys have some work ahead of you. Don't even consider swinging until you feel you truly have these issues worked out. It's supposed to be fun and enriching, a gift you give to each other; not a way to seek revenge or 'get something for myself for a change'. Good luck.

[jcbicouple 24]

the other husband stopped me on the way out. Saying to me that I probably did not want to see what was going on and pulled me into the other room.

OK, At this point.......No one in that house would have been very happy after I broke down their bedroom door and ripped apart anything that "I didn't want to see" happening!!

[fun_pairTX 26]

OK, At this point.......No one in that house would have been very happy after I broke down their bedroom door and ripped apart anything that "I didn't want to see" happening!!

 

Mrs Fun would probably have torn the other husband's arm off and beat him with it. Before you marry a female bull rider, be sure of what ya are gettin inta.

[JKBertha 15]

Bunny, I am still very sorry for this.

 

I don't think any of us would wish the feelings that you are having on anyone, I know how painful it is. However, do you want to invest more time in him? As Dr. Phil would say, "What's your payoff here"? I mean, he's obviously not helping you to feel good about yourself...and in this short and young marriage, if you have to cut swinging off, he turns against you and gets resentful? What is the payoff for you? Why are you staying? Is it cause you don't want to feel the hurt of a seperation or divorce?

 

You have become his doormat, he is wiping his feet all over you and basically telling you tot ake it or else. Or else you get more rejection from him, more dispair, more lonliness, and more isolation.

 

You do not have to be weak...get counseling for yourself atleast, even if he won't go....because maybe that will give you a good emotional outlet, and they can help you clarify and objectively view te situation. Then, if things don't change with him or his attitude, just like ripping a band-aid off....kick the guy in the ass and kick him out. If you don't, it'll just be year after year of the low you are feeling.

 

Take care and big hugs!!!!

[bushwhacker_tx 15]

I want to look at the other side of this for a moment.

 

Bunny you said:

What i have asked for are things like: attention, affection, feeling important, sex earlier in the evening, being able to say things i would like to do without him getting mad at me because it is something he does not want to do, some say in the lifestyle who we meet.

 

Attention, affection and making each other feel important are things that can easily wane in a short time in a marriage and takes a constant effort by both to keep it happening. Our busy modern lives don’t help and we guys are usually the first to be guilty of not doing this enough however it is a two way street and sometimes the ladies may not realize that they aren’t showing enough for their guy. It is something you both need to constantly work on.

 

As for your next request you are basically asking him not to swing. You already said that once he cums he is through for the evening and if he has sex with you earlier in the evening as you want then he can’t play later. You can kiss others and he can’t. You can be brought to orgasm but he is not allowed to, even though it may be harder for a man to control his orgasm. It seems a bit lopsided to me and I don’t think these rules would work for us but maybe it works for you. Or maybe your rules really don’t work for you two either.

 

As for him getting mad at you when you try to discuss the lifestyle; are you sure your discussions are really a two-way street or are you telling him the way you want it to be?

 

There are always two sides to a story and I think we all should be careful about telling someone to get a divorce lawyer before we hear the other side.

 

Bunny, how about getting him on here to tell us his side of the story?

 

Chas

[curiousagain 326]

I too, would like to hear "the other side". There has been a lot of good advice here from couples. I would like to offer an observation simply from a male viewpoint.

 

You have sex with another female and he watches and then you two have sex. OK, but how would you feel if you watched while he had sex with a female then had sex with you. Would technically sort of be the same. I don't think you would tolerate that from reading your post. I think y'all approached this all wrong (for you two) and way too early in your relationship, and with too little communication and too much problems to start. I'm afraid at this point it is going to be all catch up and that is never easy.

[midnight hour 16]

I felt a little disappointed that he let that happen but I also did not stop it.

 

I am having a problem with this one too...it seems like this was a test..and you left the room first yet was disapointed he let this happen..a simple NO would have stopped the whole scene. If no was not listened to a more forceful voice would have def stopped the whole thing...if not that a full ball twister would have did it

We have not full swapped yet due to not finding a couple that pushes both our buttons...but I know that I would never assume he could not cum with another women especially since he has let me cum more times then I have fingers and toes with another man I would not feel right haveing a orgasm with someone else *if* Mr. Midnight was not gave the same option.

But I agree there is more going on here then the swinging. I don't think your marriage was in the best situation to start swinging.

If no one can talk....then the marriage is in serious trouble. And at this point only talking can help straighten out things.

[pleasureprince0 15]

what does this mean?

3. Never finish with the other person.

 

someone plz enlighten me. does it mean no cumming inside with other person? however with rule1-condom must, does it matter?

[Vespertine 31]

what does this mean?

3. Never finish with the other person.

 

someone plz enlighten me. does it mean no cumming inside with other person? however with rule1-condom must, does it matter?

It means her husband isn't allowed to have an orgasm with another person. She, on the other hand, can orgasm with another person. Only her husband has this restriction.

[jcbicouple 24]

It means her husband isn't allowed to have an orgasm with another person. She, on the other hand, can orgasm with another person. Only her husband has this restriction.

Did we miss something in her posts? We read it that neither of them were supposed to "finish" without the other. They both had the same rules. She let the other guy stop her from going back into the room (while she was coming out of the bathroom, not another bedroom) because her husband was already breaking the rules with his wife. Granted, She should have stopped it there, but not everyone thinks that quickly or aggresively in situations like that. As far as not finishing with someone else: Frankly, since it sounds like he can't do it again, we don't think it's unreasonable to ask that they finish together at the end. Lots of people have this rule.

We always have sex with each other last, and aren't sure we'd be open to letting the other finish with someone else either if we couldn't have them again until the next day! (Guess we're fortunate that we don't have this problem)

[Vespertine 31]

Did we miss something in her posts? We read it that neither of them were supposed to "finish" without the other.

Nope. Reading back I think I missed something in the OP's posts. I think when I posted, I was thinking about their "No Kissing" rule...

No the kissing does not pertain to me kissing other women.

I thought she posted somewhere that only he couldn't cum with other partners because after he came once, he was unable to play any further through the night. I assumed (bad thing to do! *bad Vespy!* ) the rule didn't apply to her because she didn't have this problem and the because the kissing rule didn't apply to her.

 

Though I feel bad for the OP- I feel that the rules are one sided. What's good for the goose is also good for the gander and vice versa. I think restricting only one person is a bad idea that potentially leads to problems.

 

*edit

I am in no way saying that the problems she's having in her marriage are a result of the swinging/swinging rules.

[wrnakedru 38]

Ves -

I think perhaps you got where you did in your mind was because the couple play is a new thing and carries a set of rules to govern the activity in order to accommodate her comfort level.

 

For 2 1/2 years, their activity has consisted of her "exploring her bi-side" while he watched. If I am reading correctly, that was the extent of his involvement - watching.

 

I am guessing here - but I think it likely that whilst exploring her bi-side, there was some kissing going on. I could be wrong about her doing that. It's been my experience, however, that we ladies like kissing each other - - and there's a lot of that. Admittedly, it may have been different with her and her explorations. I don't think it's unreasonable to think in 2 1/2 years, he has viewed a lot of kissing. But maybe not.

 

I have to believe that within that same 2 1/2 year time period, she did become comfortable enough, and excited enough, to experience orgasms. Finished, so to speak. More than once. Perhaps multiple times during the course of a single encounter. Certainly multiple times over a 2 1/2 year span.

 

So yes, Ves, that's a lot of viewing this guy has done in 2 1/2 years. A durn sight LOTS of kissing and a great big bunches of wa-hooing as well.

 

And now he's gonna to be allowed through the door to be part of the actual action for a change. Say what you will about going as slow as the slowest partner ... and yes, I am not so obtuse that I don't understand that different levels of activity bring about a varying degree of comfort - and may need some rules to help with that. And yes, I agree there are large communication difficulties here - as well as some huge "basic marriage 101" issues that are in desperate need of immediate attention.

 

BUT honest and true? I'm having a hard time faulting the guy for wanting to be able to do what he's watched her do for 2 1/2 years. Even the most pious of saints would eventually have to ask "When is it MY turn?" I'm having a real hard time here feeling empathy for the lady in question as she cries "FOUL."

 

She's been riding in a limo for 2 1/2 years - and he's had to run along side of it, while peering through the darkened windows. Now he's going to be allowed to ride, but the rules are he only gets to stand up on the running board. Yup, I'm having a real hard time calling him heartless and viewing her as wronged.

 

WR

[Vespertine 31]

A big FAT Dito to you, WR!

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

This is pretty much what I'm reading between the lines.