Laying it on the line... bringing up swinging to my wife

[Hellboy 15]

After last Friday night and the strip club, I decided it was time to lay it all out for my wife and see what she thought. Of course, I was hoping it would mean "That would be awesome! Let's do it!" But what came out was "I don't know. I really need to think about this---I don't want to talk about it anymore right now" Well, not to be detered, I wrote it all out on paper, printed it out and gave it to her. My fantasies (broad overview) My ideas on swinging and how it would effect our marriage (the difference between love and erotic exploration) and I invited her to here. Being that I otherwise had one of the ugliest nights of my life, (not at all invloving my wife) we have not discussed it any further. All I really want to know is if she is willing to entertain the possibility. (I'm 80% sure she is, but she has issues to work through first)

[CB_n_Red 16]

A lot of the five years we spent talking about swinging before we actually did anything were actually periods of not talking about it of course. Red needed the time to digest the idea and work out just what she thought and wanted. Let us simply say that it worked for us. When the time was right and Red had decided she really did want to give it a try, all the potential problems had been well ironed out and we have had no significant problems ever since. Just lots of fun

 

So my advice would be to let your wife have her thinking time. At some point no doubt there will be suitable occasions for you to mention it again, but above all, don't push it! That would probably be a mistake. In all probability she will mention the idea herself when is is ready to do so.

 

CB (still feeling well worn out after last night at the club....)

[DBStPete 20]

It's not at all unusual for couples to spend a long time, years even, thinking about it. And if you push, it usually backfires. You just have to be patient. But consider this: objections are usually about fears, and fears are usually about insecurity of some sort or another. Do what you can to boost her security in you, your relationship, and herself. It will pay dividends.

 

Mr. DBStPete

[EvilMJ 65]

It's really easy to get excited when you have been given a glimps of what it is you want. But you have to give her time. Just because you are ready now, it does not mean she is. Women are raised to believe that there are just some things that you do not do, and are not supposed to find exicting or fun. At the mention of sex toys or pornography my mother would get upset and was adament that it was not something that ladies had anything to do with.

 

You can't just turn off your upbringing and values that your parents instill in you just because your husband wants you to. She has issues that she is going to have to work through first. In my case it didn't take long but other people may find it harder.

 

All I know is that by pushing things too much too soon you may be making her dig her heels in all the harder....like trying to walk a cat on a leash.

[Spoomonkey 421]

It's not at all unusual for couples to spend a long time, years even, thinking about it. And if you push, it usually backfires. You just have to be patient. But consider this: objections are usually about fears, and fears are usually about insecurity of some sort or another. Do what you can to boost her security in you, your relationship, and herself. It will pay dividends.

 

This is excellent advice - push too hard, too fast and you're asking for trouble.

 

And this is just hilarious:

 

like trying to walk a cat on a leash.

 

Spoomonkey

[Hellboy 15]

Excellent advice all around. Its really common sense to me examining questions posed by others, but I have a hard time practicing what I preach. I am a little bit excited. It is her upbringing, for she is a preacher's daughter and the only two confirmed incidents of her parents actually having sex are at the conception of her and her brother. Her desire and drive crave experimentation and exploration. But her inhibitions hold her back. I and I am quickly learning that it makes her uncomfortable to discuss those things because it brings out the conflict. I am getting extreme mixed emotions and its frustrating the shit out of me. But we are alot closer than we have ever been. I get scared by words like 'never', though and maybe I shouldn't. Perhaps I should just accept that she feels that way in the moment. I think it also has to do with a bad experience in college where she was dating a member of a fraternity and thought she was in love and he wanted to share her around the fraternity. That really turned her off and opened up some issues with commitment. Not that she can't trust me, but that I am HERS and no one else's. Not in an overly possesive way, but she wants to give that back in return. By me setting that aside and telling her its okay throws her for a loop, I think.

 

On a positive note, we were discussing options for celebrating our anniversary and I mentioned we could go to Austin where we went alot in college and know lots of bars and she suggested a well known strip club by name as a possibility. Out of the blue. So that's good. She's still on board for that. With Thanksgiving and running around all day and the incident that happened here last night (ummm.....problem with the livestock) she has not had the time to talk about the letter I wrote. Maybe tomorrow. But I will not push.

[Fred&Wilma 15]

Wilma and I are still in the very early discussion/examination/inner looking stage. Her comments have fit into so many things I have read here it is down right scary. The whole thought/dicussion process is exactly as some of the female members have stated - "I was not brought up that way - but it sure does interest me" and they need to come to terms with that. Patience is virture, do you want your S/O to participate because you told them to or because it was a mutual agreement?

[Hellboy 15]

That's it exactly. And looking at the advice we have gotten, it all looks positive, but to me it feels like it could break either way. The wrong word at the wrong time and it could blow the whole deal or switch it into high gear. That's the frustrating part and now I feel like I am walking on egg shells. I could just pester her to death and use my powers of presuasion, but then it would feel 'wrong' So we all sit and wait, calculate everything we say and hope it all come out right. BTW, we had fantastic sex this evening and the letter is laying on her night stand. I asked her afterwards if she had anything to say in regards to it and she said she was still thinking. I want to believe she is really working it out, but a small voice is telling me she is thinking of the best way to let me down easy. Who knows? Only time will tell, but after what I have seen, it would probably be shocking if she said flat out no. I can also see a scenario where we meet another couple and she just doesn't feel it and that shuts her down for good.

 

I spoke with an old buddy of mine tonight and back in college we were very good friends. His wife is a little wilder than mine and when I told him what we did for my birthday last Friday (strip club) he told me he and his wife had done the same. I knew his wife before they got together and I know she was at one time bi and that her and my wife get along great. Hmmmm......I know I can trust them. . . . hmmmm.......It's a thought. I get the feeling my wife would be more inclined to do it in the moment than to plan it out to the nth degree. Perhaps.....

[TNT 1,155]

After reading all your post I have to say I think you might be trying to push a little to hard to fast. You seem to be moving at warp speed while your wife is moving at a snail's pace. You always go at the slowest person's pace.

 

Relax and slow down, let your wife set the pace or it's going to blow up in your face. You should be enjoying the journy and not focusing on the destination.

 

Teresa

[Hellboy 15]

You are in all likelyhood 100% correct. Being an impatient man, it is hard for me to accept, but I must. But understand that I vent about it here and am not putting on alot of pressure. I think about it alot and come here to unload all my ideas/thoughts on the situation. That being said, you're still probably right.

 

I'm not ready to 'do it' but I want to talk about it with her. We have 2 small kids and getting away for an evening is a bear. We are going to be moving soon (if I can find the 'right' house) and I need to get some things in order first (like get in better shape.)

 

Not to worry, I won't push. I'll take that advice and ease up a little. Thanks!

[vividpleasures 15]

Hi.

My husband brought this up to me about a years ago. The word "never" came out of my mouth a few times since then. We had one MFM, well, one confirmed and 2 unconfirmed. [Thats another thread]

The most important thing is not to push the issue. You brought it up, even to the extent of a letter. Now, leave it alone. I know how your wife feels. There are many questions going threw her head right now. Maybe send her a link to this site. I know it has helped me out a lot. After that, I wouldnt mention it again. Start focusing on her and your relationship. When she is ready, she will let you know. Also, if she does bring it up, dont get all excited about it. When she drops the issue again, be sure you do too.

It's a long road to travel for some, just ask my husband!

The Mrs.

[Spoomonkey 421]

Being an impatient man...

 

Hellboy

 

Just to encourage you - using the words "impatient" and "man" together in a sentence is often redundant. While we may not all have had to walk in your shoes, we all know where you are coming form!

 

The waiting - especially when things seem so close - can be really tough. I remember waiting for Mrs Spoomonkey to "catch up with me" for quite a few months - and I remember having to remind myself to be patient quite a bit. (Okay, I did it so much that it was a bit of a nutty mantra in my head... "Be patient... Be patient... Be pati... Maybe I'll drink a beer...")

 

I am glad that you are venting here - it helps you "cleanse your brain" and gives you the chance to get your bearings again. There is no need to point out that you are an "impatient man"... Most of us who are men - or have ever met one - understand exactly where you're coming from

 

Spoomonkey

[TNT 1,155]

I am glad that you are venting here - it helps you "cleanse your brain" and gives you the chance to get your bearings again.

 

Dito , Let us be your venting ground.

 

Teresa

[Hellboy 15]

Thanks, folks. Its all good here. I am enjoying my sexlife with my wife immensley right now, so anything else (ie swinging) is gravy at this point. I am enjoying the frank and open discussion I get here and its been a big help.

[Suncouple 32]

If you are near Austin you might be near San Antonio.

Try a Saturday night here:

http://www.texasplayers.com

It is a fun, sexy environment. You can do some dancing and watching.

There is no sex there so she can relax, maybe.

Spend some time talking to other couples and let her talk to the other women.

I wouldn't expect that this will be the night, though.

Think in terms of six months at least form here.

[tracy1878 19]

hubby and I talked about swinging off and on for about 4 years or so before we ever actually did anything. Just talking about it would get us both turned on and we'd have wild sex, so right there was a good benefit! I think the advice your getting is right, back off a little and let your wife chew it over in her mind. You guys never know what all we're thinking about!

[Denver2some 15]

Thanks, folks. Its all good here. I am enjoying my sexlife with my wife immensley right now, so anything else (ie swinging) is gravy at this point. I am enjoying the frank and open discussion I get here and its been a big help.

 

Very glad to hear this! I had been reading along, thinking OMG this guy is going to really blow it ... by hounding his wife to the point where she won't even want to have sex with him!

 

But now I see this post. And I see (thankfully) that you may be excited, but you're not carried away enough to risk what's most important.

 

Just be careful to not be the one making all the "suggestions." Give her time to do her thinking, and come up with suggestions of her own. (The strip club she suggested, for example ... perfect!) Otherwise, she may do something just to shut you up ... but resent it because it was "all about you." Remember that women often love mulling over ideas, and making plans for an erotic evening.

 

Also, I'd step way, way back on your thoughts about your college friend and his wife. There are 100 different ways that could go wrong. Not only is playing with friends risking a friendship (read the many threads here) ... having a couple already selected may cause your wife to wonder if all your pushing has to do with experiencing THIS particular woman, not swinging in general. Also, she may have no interest in either the male or the female. Better to pick out a couple together, when and if the time comes.

[SexhoundDog 18]

Hellboy,

I agree with the others, slow down a bit. What are you looking for anyway . . a couple full or soft swap, MFM, FMF, or ?? Have you tried watching any porn together, maybe the kind you think she's closest to wanting to try?

 

Either way, take your time, and you've got to be absolutely sure she doesn't think you want in it just for your jollies and she's a bargaining chip. Maybe next time you discuss it, ask her what her idea of the perfect experience would be, then follow it up with what could you do alone to give her a perfect experience, and see which one seems to turn her on the most. Really, I totally understand your impatience, but hang in there.

[Hellboy 15]

I know.... I'm like a kid with a new toy and I think about it all the time. As I said before, I vent alot here and what I say, as much as I talk about it, its not like that around the house here. Despite my "will she/won't she?" musings, I know my wife very well and I have no fear of really upsetting her by bringing it up. I just fear screwing up a chance at it by presenting it poorly to her.

 

I feel like I have talked myself into a hole with you folks. Don't worry about me and my wife, we will be fine, no matter what happens. Yeah, I would like to play a little, but if she's not down with it, I'll just have to stick with fantastic 1 on 1 sex.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Just relax. She has the info. DO NOT bring it up again. Let her do it if and when SHE is ready.

 

The more you obsess about it the more of a problem it will be for you should she decide she doesn't want to do it. You have to be ready to accept that your fate may not be to swing. You know the old saying, hope for the best, expect the worst.

[intuition897 2,179]

hellboy, just a question:

Why do you want to do this?

This will probably have a huge impact on how receptive she'll be to it. If it's because you have all these fantasies you want to fulfill, because you just love sex, because the idea of 'strange sex' makes you feel like a kid in a candy store...

So often we hear 'how can I convince my wife'. I think it would be better received by your partner to let her know why you want HER to experience the lifestyle, not you. If you focus on her fantasies and the expression of her sexuality, and give her the freedom to explore the lifestyle - without ever expecting her to reciprocate - then I'm sure she would be more comfortable with it. This may seem like an unfair position to put yourself in, but if you love one another, she will respect that gift and give it to you in return. We've found that it's something you give one another, not something you take. Just my thoughts.

[Hellboy 15]

ARRGGHHH! I spent 20 minutes typing a really well thought out response to everyones questions and advise and my connection died as I sent it.....Try again...

 

Every post I make on this thread digs a deeper hole for me and I think I am giving a poor impression of my motives and such. Let me start over. First, my previous posts on other topics give a better indication of what is going on here in Hellboyland. Aside from that, let me try and sum up.....

 

My wife and I have a great marriage and a tremendous sex life. We've been married for 6 years and are stronger today than any other day in the past. My motivations for approaching my wife on the topic of swinging are varied and some are indeed selfish. (I am human) But the bottom line is that I want her to experience pleasure and freedom greater than I alone can give her.

 

For the past six months, she has been going to the gym religiously and gotten into fantastic shape. Her libido has exploded and the sex has taken a quantum leap forward. We have introduced a number of new elements into the equation and each time it has made the experience better and better. A year ago, she was afraid to go into an adult video store, now she walks in like she owns the place.

 

I like to think I am pretty good in the sack. But even then, there are things I cannot give her. The touch of a woman, the release of recieveing pleasure by more than one person at a time, the thrill of the chase, the anxious moments exploring someone you are not as familiar with as the person you sleep next to every night. I can't give her another inch or two(ouch! that's tough to say!) For me, I want basically the same things, exploring sexuality with an unfamiliar person. But the big thing for me is to give her release and freedom. The craving is there, the attraction is there. She has never been as hot as the night of our excursion to the strip club. Her fantasies are important to her, but she has a hard time expressing them without the guilt and shame built up by years in a sheltered environment.

 

Even when she lived away from home and partied pretty hard in college, she was always the grounded one in her circles of friends, the on the rest turned to to keep them somewhat straight, a motherly figure in the absence or a real one. But deep down, she wanted to be the one having fun, letting go and enjoying herself. This is an opportunity to walk a little bit on the wild side and explore our sexuality.

 

I felt bad when she told me what a fantastic time she had out on my birthday only to follow it up with admissions of guilt. Alot of people here have overcome that, being the chief obstacle to attaining a heightend sexual freedom. That's what I want to do. I want to let her know its okay to persue those desires, I want to lift the barriers and remove the obstacles so she can enjoy herself. If I have to nudge a little, that's one thing. I don't want to pressure her or guilt her into doing anything. But every other thing we have tried to expand our sexual horizon has turned out better than we had hoped and I hope this is no different.

 

If she decides she cannot do it, to me it will be like not winning the lottery. A minor dissapointment, but I won't freak out or get depressed. As evidenced by the 4 orgams she had Sunday night with me, its not something we NEED, but I think its something we both want. Just, we are at different stages, though the impetus to take that step has to come from somewhere, one of us has to bring it up as a topic for discussion and I guess that is me.

 

Perhaps the letter was over the top, but it was damage control for some things I had said prior to that. You all know how tenuous this can be approaching these subjects and I, like I did with some of the above posts, planted my foot in my mouth.

 

So I hope that paints a more complete picture of where Hellboy's head is at and puts to rest any fears I am nuts or driving my marriage off a cliff. That most assuredly is not the case. We are stronger as a couple each day, sex or not, and this, which ever way it goes, won't change that. Cheers and thanks. Its all good here.

 

BTW : She reminded me the other day that I had neglected to bring her to the board and show her around. Time has not permitted such(heh she crashed out @ 9:00) and I am here because I am a night owl. What can I say. This is when I usually work on my novel anyhow, but I am taking a break from that. But she wants to come visit, so that's good news.

[DBStPete 20]

I felt bad when she told me what a fantastic time she had out on my birthday only to follow it up with admissions of guilt. Alot of people here have overcome that, being the chief obstacle to attaining a heightend sexual freedom. That's what I want to do. I want to let her know its okay to persue those desires, I want to lift the barriers and remove the obstacles so she can enjoy herself. If I have to nudge a little, that's one thing. I don't want to pressure her or guilt her into doing anything. But every other thing we have tried to expand our sexual horizon has turned out better than we had hoped and I hope this is no different.

 

Then it needs to be about HER. Entirely and completely. 100%. Your human desires don't enter into it. Can you do that? If you can do that, and mean it, and pursue it with all the passion you've shown so far, then you can do this. But I think that's going to be the best way, maybe the only way.

 

Don't worry, if it works you'll get yours and then some. Nothing is as giving as a happy woman, god bless their dear souls.

 

Help her explore her inner sexual desires, and her fantasies. Help her work out her guilts. Spend a year or two on just her. If she's half the woman she sounds she'll have plenty of material for you. Do all that, and talking her into swinging won't be an issue.

 

Mr. DBStPete

[intuition897 2,179]

Sorry if I came off as sounding condescending! I didn't mean to. It sounds like you guys have a great marriage going for you and it's just a matter of *sigh* time and patience. There shouldn't be any reason to withhold the truth from her about your own desires and fantasies; I'm just suggesting that the emphasis should be on one's partner's desires and fantasies.

 

"Don't worry, if it works you'll get yours and then some. Nothing is as giving as a happy woman, ... "

 

I think that was just what I meant. Just give and trust her to realize the value of your gift. If she refuses to respect it (doesn't sound like that'll be a problem), deal with that problem when it arises. This is what Mr. Intuition and I have found to be the best solution for us.

[Hellboy 15]

Got it. Being where I am(about anything goes) it has to be about her, giving her what she desires. Just removing the obstacles from her getting there. If I express an idea and she says no, there won't be any "cmon, do it for me, I want to do that" That never entered into the thought process. I think we can put this thread to bed now. Not to worry folks, all is good in Hellboyland.

[sex4us 15]

Hi!

I agree with what everyone has to say. My husband was also impatient, but he waited patiently for 11 years. I kind of knew I had a wilder side of myself but was so afraid to bring it out. When you are an only daughter, catholic, not given freedom too explore and had cultural issues in the family you've grown up in, it is very hard to break old habits. For me, I had so many things to take care of, sex was the last thing on my mind and always too tired to have it. I did get mad, upset everytime to he brought it up. I felt inadequate, wasn't enough for him, but we would talk and talk when we had bonding time together, and I did get over my insecurities and I gave him the permission and some ground rules. He would do the same for me. We're just starting to meet new people online and very informative reading everyone's experiences and thoughts.

 

Give her time, she'd be the one to open both your doors to new experiences.

 

sex4us

[Hellboy 15]

Folks, its all good. I have recieved some "counseling" from a respected member here and not at all worried. In fact we did have "the talk" and she did say no and then we had fantastic sex. What she said was it was too much too fast (duh!) and not to bring it up for a while.....for a while? hmmm....oh well, message recieved, and oh yeah, it was her who began the talk and me that finished it by backing way off.

 

As I sit here in the glow of another session of great lovemaking, I wanted to tell everyone : You were right, I am moving too fast with the swinging thing. But the important point is that our relationship is such that it doesn't matter. Yeah, I may have set back the time table for moving up into a more exploratative mode sexually, but that's it. This is not going to make even a scratch in our iron clad marriage (sure, everyone thinks that until they are served with divorce papers, but...) In other words, trust me, I know what I am doing. Fear not, for either way, I am a happy man and according to my wife, so is she (I think her exact words were "Oh, God, I am cuming again!)

 

Cheers!

[Denver2some 15]

So glad to hear your talk (and other things) went well, Hellboy.

 

Congrats on both!

[robnbarb 40]

Hellboy-your story sounds like mine from about 4 years ago.

 

One thing you should know that I learned from some friends after they disccused the lifestyle is that there is a new level of trust after a conversation like this. Basicly you have shared something you would normaly keep way down in your soul. How can you not trust someone after that.

[Hellboy 15]

My first reaction to that comment is that with us, there is already complete trust. But upon deeper pondering, its not a deeper trust, but more of a horizontal move, I suppose. From being in the conversation first hand, it was never about not being satisfied and wanting to be with other people. But to share something that you might think would offend your partner does create another form of trust. And its a morality issue with us. She trusts our relationship enough, its just the 'wrongness' of it. Which time will tell if that changes. We'll see, but I'm not overly concerned. We just had great sex again and I am happy. Except the cinnamon Good Head stuff burns a little on her. Hey, she bought it, not my fault!

[JandL 15]

My first reaction to that comment is that with us, there is already complete trust. But upon deeper pondering, its not a deeper trust, but more of a horizontal move, I suppose. From being in the conversation first hand, it was never about not being satisfied and wanting to be with other people. But to share something that you might think would offend your partner does create another form of trust. And its a morality issue with us. She trusts our relationship enough, its just the 'wrongness' of it. Which time will tell if that changes. We'll see, but I'm not overly concerned. We just had great sex again and I am happy. Except the cinnamon Good Head stuff burns a little on her. Hey, she bought it, not my fault!

 

You're not alone. My wife too sees the "wrongness" of it. And although she is somewhat attracted to it, she is still keeping the idea at a distance.

 

And I, like you, am having a hard time being patient and just kind of letting it go.

 

I still check this site everyday, and read stuff online about it. Which probably just makes it all the harder. Oh well. Good things come to those who wait, right?

 

Hang in there.

[CB_n_Red 16]

Good things come to those who wait, right?

 

They do indeed! Five years we talked and now we really are making up for lost time.

 

(Still grinning after last night's playtime.....)

 

CB