What's your opinion on family nudity in the home?

[clit pro poet 15]

Our daughter became, seemingly on her own, more modest and reserved around the house when she reached her early teens. As adults, we're polite and considerate, but don't barricade the bathroom when showering, for example. (It's so much nicer, here in the South, to let the breeze blow through a half open door.) In day to day life, shedding dirty clothes on the porch, say, then making a run for the shower while grasping the clean bundle, is silly and fun. We just do it less readily than we used to.

[clit pro poet 15]

When I was in high school, I snuck a girl into my house and my mom walked in on us when we were having sex. Instead of closing the door and leaving (I rolled off of this girl as soon as I heard the door open) she came into the room and sat on the edge of the bed. She introduced herself and asked the girl her name. The girl of course was very embarassed and nervous at first but got comfortable after a few minutes.

 

My mom and her wound up chatting for about 30 minutes before she left the room after saying, "I better leave you two alone. I'm sure you have things to do."

 

What a graceful woman!

[threeIsNice 15]

We started out with the "family bed," meaning the kids all slept with us when they were babies. No sense avoiding nudity then, like when changing clothes to pajamas, coming in from a shower, etc. We don't run around the house nude. The youngest two daughters sometimes holler "oh Dad," when I start to change clothes, but hey, it's my room and they can leave if they don't like it. It's not that big a deal.

[DanBridget 15]

Dan,

 

I have never seen my parents naked, Of course my dad from time to time in under wear. Not sure about when we have kids.

 

Bridget,

 

It isn't odd in her family for the women to be around each other in various forms of undress. Whether it be in the shower or changing clothes or trying on new clothes. The men are not that way. Her sister has let her son see her topless for too long, yet he doesn't care or make a point of it.

 

So I guess from her stand point it will be about the same if we had a girl, but not a boy.

 

Dan and Bridget

[FlaPlaya561 48]

I guess it's ok when the kids are young they dont understand. I wrote that i have seen my mom nude walking around I still can remember her boobies, So i really think that stays with the kids as they grow older they can still remember like i can. Happy Holidays Everyone

[matt1610 15]

I think it girls shouldn't see dad nude and vice versa. But you don't want them to think nudity is bad either

[WesternSwing 504]

We have three girls ranging in age from 14 to 3. All three have grown-up around me being naked in the morning after a shower since birth (well the 11-year old since she was three, that is when Mrs. WS and I got together), and they think nothing of it at all. They are not shy about coming in the bathroom while I'm showering or shaving.

 

Growing-up my parents house was the same way, casual nudity was nothing out-of-the-ordinary. Mrs. WS's parents were the other extreme. Mrs. WS doesn't ever remember seeing her mother or father naked. It has only been since living with me that she has become comfortable enough with nudity that she does her hair and make-up in the morning while naked. It took a long time to deprogram that nudity is wrong.

 

Both Mrs. WS and I think it may take some of the curiousity out of it for them. Maybe not. But we'll see. We definitely know they won't have hang-ups about nudity as they get older.

 

Both Mrs. WS and I sleep in something, however. We just wouldn't feel right with the baby crawling in bed with us in the middle of the night while we were wearing nothing.

 

Mr. WS

[Tempest419 15]

We have a 2&1/2 year old son who also hates to wear clothes... he has been known to get to a friend's house and strip down shortly there after, LOL I think it's our natural state to be nude... anyone who's had babies will observe that we hate those itchy, structured things called clothes right from the get-go. I went naked in front of my son in transitions, from changing clothes to bathing, that is normal. I think most parents find it's by necessity... you just don't get any alone time! Just in the last year he has begun to notice my body and I do find myself a little self-conscious... but alas I don't have much choice... he is still bursting into the bathroom whenever he feels like it. He still usually plays in the bathwater while I'm bathing... not sure when all this will end but as of yet, we have not taught him to be self-conscious, and while I don't parade in front of him, I don't shy away if it happens, either. When it's warm weather out, he does not have to wear anything more than underwear if he wants and it's been that way since he was a baby, so it's fairly normal for him.

 

I also remember seeing both my parents naked by accident at some point, Mom was more comfortable than Dad with the girls, but as a rule they weren't into the nudity thing. We aren't nudists either but do want to teach our son not to be ashamed of his body.

 

For what it's worth... I agree that it's ridiculous to have a congressional hearing over a boob popping out, for fear it damaged some young or otherwise sensitive person eternally... and yet we let them watch random violence and murder w/o the blink of an eye!

 

Sincerely,

~T

[tojoe59 17]

good judgement. If your AOK with your body, well i'm 15lbs over what I should. This gives your kids a mood to be AOK with what they have. Don't walk around all day be cool and live life

[hfire269 16]

When I was in high school, I snuck a girl into my house and my mom walked in on us when we were having sex. Instead of closing the door and leaving (I rolled off of this girl as soon as I heard the door open) she came into the room and sat on the edge of the bed. She introduced herself and asked the girl her name. The girl of course was very embarassed and nervous at first but got comfortable after a few minutes.

 

Sounds like something my mom would have done.. She walked in on me and my now hubby a few times and jsut started chatting away... lol its like mom come on go away already. LOL.

[elysian74 15]

I have 2 girls and I dont feel comfortable with them seeing me in the nude. Their curiousity is a bit too much....

[jrock6545 15]

It's interesting as I grew up with four sisters and being embarassed wasn't an option..at least for them. Their typical response was "it's just my brother" when they would change in front of me or walk in while I was showering. As I was in the "growing up stage" I was probably more embarassed than they were. As I got older in my late teens I wasn't as embarassed by being nude and seeing someones breasts or penis didn't seem to be a big deal. My parents were both pretty open about being nude in the privacy of our house and that seems to be the case with my family now. My wife is explaining the facts of growing up to my two daughters and their natural inquisitiveness about the body seems to be explained better when they can identify a body part or two. When they get older I would guess they also would become more self conscious but as for now they tend to not take things to serious if someone is seen "naked". It appears that if we make a big deal out of something they also will do the same. We don't in this area so they don't either.

[love_shack 15]

Americans are the most hung-up populace on the planet. In Japan, families still bathe together at home. They used to bathe together in public bath houses, but the Americans put a stop to that during the occupation after WWII. People still use public bath houses there (called "sento"), but they are now separated by gender, so families can't be together there anymore. I (an American; believe it or not) recall bathing with my father-in-law and son togher in my in-laws' home. In fact, my mother-in-law even took a snapshot of us three together, regarding it as a cute family photo. It never occurred to anyone that there should be any taboo.

[Thrax 384]

Americans are the most hung-up populace on the planet.

I would agree that for the most part the U.S. is the most hung-up industrialized nation on the planet with regard to sensual and sexual matters. It doesn't make me proud, but it's probably true. Still, many people from conservative Asian, African, and South/Central American societies (I would guess between half and 2/3 of the world's population) consider us libertines in comparison to their societies.

 

In conversations with Latinos (usually at least nominally Roman Catholic), Africans, Saudis, Chinese, Pakistanis, and Indians when I was in grad school, in my several corporate jobs, and in my limited travels in those regions, the topic of "moral decay" in the U.S. often came up. Quite often there were negative comments about immodesty (nudity or near nudity in public), but also about pre-/non-/extra-marital sex, and homosexuality. Admittedly, my evidence is only anecdotal, not scientific, but I think many people fail to acknowledge how conservative and tradition-bound much of the world is. And I think it is interesting that the U.S. now gets a LOT more immigrants from these conservative societies (many with different religious traditions but social conservatism that fits right in with a large segment of U.S. society) rather than the more "open" European and other nations. Who knows what that means?

 

Sheesh, I am so long-winded.

 

Let's just get naked, okay? While we can!

[BustyBlonde 15]

I have no problem walking around totally naked in front of my daughter. I want her to grow up knowing that the body is a beautiful thing (even when it looks like mine.... ) She too, is very comfortable walking around naked in front of us, she just turned 10. Hubby, on the other hand, wears undies at all times in front of her. That is his comfort zone and I appreciate that. He started covering up when she started noticing his privates. Before that, he would shower with her and everything. You know what though? I am not so sure I would want him any other way. I think gender plays a huge role in it.

[FlaPlaya561 48]

Seems like most of the replies latetly have come from this thread. YES bustyblond i really think gender has alot do to with it. Like i said before my mom walked around nude all the time altho when kids grow they still remember ...

[ozbeachcpl 15]

seems most of the replies have a common theme like ours..

we go nude round the house..but the kids would die if they knew we did it at a public beach..

it has become more of an issue as they have hit puberty too

[ozbeachcpl 15]

sons have even complained about mom waring bikinis..say she is too old for it..

[oldman65 15]

seemsmost couples will go nude at swinger events and only some at home why the hang up. my parents did not mind be nude around me and my brothers. same with me at home our son has seen both of us nude more than he has seen us clothed. een wife family hs seen it all.

[atljay73 15]

We, our family have been to a summer nudist camp for the last 18 years and have been to various nudist family orientated resorts. Nudity has never been an issue, as a family and around our nudist friends, nudity has never been an issue.

 

 

I think nudity shouldn't be shunned away if it involves family or others. Growing up I was raised to be proud of your body and was comfortable being nude around my parents or sister. The last few years I visit nudist resorts and see several family there

[RenoFantasy 15]

My wife is comfortable nude, in front of the kids or otherwise. Myself... as our daughter gets older I have become less and less apt to be naked in front of her. This is really something I should probably work on. Especially being involved in this lifestyle, I really don't want my children feelining they should be ashamed of their nakeness. Conversely, I don't want them flaunting it either. (I am their daddy, after all)

 

I usually do my best to not let my children see me naked, but I don't jump and hollar if they walk in on me nude.

 

This subject has brought to mind another topic that maybe should be discussed. How do you intend to handle your childrens inevitable questions about your lifestyle choice? Maybe someone should start a poll, but I'm too tired to do so at the moment.

 

Matt & Sarah

[Guest jojo_man_7353]

Im not a swinger but Ive been getting interested in nudism. At other sites Ive been reading about nudism and family nudism and it seems pretty cool. They talk about how its natural and nonsexual. Then I come here and Ive been reading several post about nudism, beaches, nudist clubs and such. It seems that theres quite a few post that mention incest and mention that theres sex at some nude clubs. Im beginning to think that there's more incest and sex happening in front of kids than some people are willing to admit. Some of the incest encounters have been nightmares for the kids Im sure. Then again you read that some encounters seem to be pleasurable to the kids. The pleasurable ones seem to be between teens of the same age and ones that are both interested. Of course I realize incest can and does take place in non-nudist, non-swinging families but Im assuming it takes place more often in these familes because the parents are more open to sex and nudity. I don't really know what Im trying to say, but if you look over the post, there is a lot of talk about incest here. Like I said I think that its happening more often than people will admit.

[JnCC 24]

I come here and Ive been reading several post about nudism, beaches, nudist clubs and such. It seems that theres quite a few post that mention incest and mention that theres sex at some nude clubs. Im beginning to think that there's more incest and sex happening in front of kids than some people are willing to admit....I think that its happening more often than people will admit.

You might want to check this out...

http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/NudistHallofShame/index.html

[Dare2Share 16]

I have two girls under the age of 5. My husband always wears shorts around them and makes sure to throw a towel on after he showers. He's completely uncomfortable with the children seeing him nude, which I respect and even appreciate.

Our four year old is at the age where she asks me about body parts and why I have pubic hair. I've always answered her questions honestly but I am at the point where I put limits on things. If she wants to talk to me while I am in the shower, that's fine but she isn't allowed to just pop in my bedroom first thing in the morning or be in the bathroom while I am relieving myself anymore. I am more lenient with the two year old and occasionally she'll take a shower with me when the four year old is away for the weekend, though.

[redhead12144 15]

it depens on how you feel letting your kids see you. if you are open minded and take away the mystery of men and women being nude every thing would be fine. it just depens on how they fel seeing their parents nude. and what is comfortable. and you have to talk with the kids to let them know not every one goes around with out any clothes.

[JnCC 24]

Our four year old is at the age where she asks me about body parts and why I have pubic hair.

LMAO....!!!

 

I have a female friend who's somewhat naive, 17 year-old daughter recently asked her why she didn't...

[Dare2Share 16]

LMAO....!!!

 

I have a female friend who's somewhat naive, 17 year-old daughter recently asked her why she didn't...

 

Well, I suppose that I count myself LUCKY in this situation. I wouldn't feel comfortable if my 4 year old daughter found that we were similar in that aspect. I'm sure others don't feel the same way.

[caligula531 15]

My wife will be topless infront of the kids, and I will not show any nudity in front of them. The kids have always seen their mom partially nude, and they have never said anything about it, or showed any mixed emotions (i.e. "eww mom, cover up") they have always found the best time to have discussions, and get answers to there questions while my wife is in the tub, so they dont have a problem with it. I was rased by a very conservitive, single mother, and was basically taught that nudity is bad, or dirty. It took 1 year of a realtionship with my wife of 22 years, before I was comfy with her seeing me fully naked in the light. I always resented my mom for that, but have not been able to shake it. It dosnt help that i have always been heavy, and have not wanted to subject anyone to all my glory

[FlaPlaya561 48]

I am forever with the thought of my mom walking around nude with her 44dd boobs bouncing all over, it never goes away...i am 45 years yrs old ..what you do is up to you! but kids dont forget and it grows up with them.....

 

 

M

[curiousagain 326]

LMAO....!!!

 

I have a female friend who's somewhat naive, 17 year-old daughter recently asked her why she didn't...

 

[Guest curiousR]

when my kids started 1st or 2nd grade, nudity around them began to cease. i believe the same went on when i was a youngster... save for one momenteous day.....

i 'member when i was in high school, my mom came out of the shower madder then a hornet, nikkid as a jaybird and yelling at me and my sister because "somebody" borrowed her shampoo and failed to return it. i stood there wide-eyed and unable to blink and pushed my sis towards the other bathroom. she sprinted to the bathroom and returned in record time. mom snatched the 'poo from her hand and stomped back to her running shower. THAT was the last time i remember family nudity in my house and to this day, i love to remind dear ol' mom of that unforgetable kodak moment... :c)

[mybeeps 15]

Growing up, and even to this day, i have never seen my dad naked. My mom on the other hand, yes, many times. like someone mentioned before, i remember sitting on the toilet, as she took a bath, it was sorta our "time" together. My brothers and i however were never naked in front of each other when older, but, as children..and when i say children, i do mean under three and two years of age, there are pictures of us in the tub togther.

I don't see a problem with children seeing their parents of the same sex naked. I think that mostly comes from the way it was with my mom and i. If I am in a wicked hurry, i will grab my daughter, and shove her in the shower with me or at the end with me....and she doesn't give a care at all. Come to think of it, she doesn't really care who sees her naked. (she's 8) hmmm...

 

Of course, i dont want her to see me when i'm having sex, that is just not right.

 

so yeah..there ya go

 

~beepers~

[Islanders 15]

I didn't mind my son seeing me completely or partially nude when he was younger. But, now that he is about to turn four yrs. old, I try to cover up when around him. However, I don't mind if he comes into the bathroom to ask me something or use the toilet, while I'm in the shower. He's at the age now where he has tons of questions for everything he hears and sees. For example, while potty training him I had to explain to him, in a PG way, why girls sit down and boys stand up to pee. With that said, I don't mind if he's in the bathroom while I'm peeing, since I usually try cover things up as much as possible.

[FlaPlaya561 48]

Very true mybeeps and ISlanders. The bathroom is the place for potty training and clean time..

[Karenandtom4you 15]

We have been nudists for more than 20 years-so it has been a part of our life. We visit nudist resorts in this country and others. The organization AANR promotes such a healthful attitude toward nudism.

Other countries have a Healthier view of nudity than much of the US. There is less a sexual connotation to it than here. At the nude resorts we have visited -people of all ages-including families with children are present.

At home-we do not usually go nude-it is more because of the cost of heating our home. We do have a hot tub and go nude there all the time.

-so Nudism has been part of much of our adult lives-and still is.

[NUDEWOMBAT 16]

I have never had any problem with nudity in front of my 4 children (boys 9,7,3 & girl 5) they have all grown up seeing me naked around the house & seeing my wife going between the shower & bedroom nude (except for a stage my wife went through when she banned us being nude anywhere except the bedroom).

 

The other day my daughter asked my why was I wearing clothes when I got out of bed (it was a cold night), she was so used to me getting up & getting her breakfast nude if she got up earlier than anyone else & then me going back to bed. my wife always wears clothes to bed, she will get naked to make love but gets dressed straight away afterwards

 

I am a naturist at heart & will go to a nude beach at the first chance I get, however my wife still refuses to be in public nude.

[cara1 15]

My son barges in on me while I am dressing. He is five, and it doesn't phase him. I don't wish to make nudity taboo to my child. However, I don't think that I'll feel comfortable with him viewing me nude for much longer.

[DGrey 28]

Nudity wasn't taboo for me growing up and it won't be for our daughter either. I'm sure I'll have fun explaining to her why she's getting pubes when I don't have them anymore. I dread that day. LOL

 

Nudity is such a natural part of life and it's a shame how it's always automatically tied to the act of sex instead of something so basic and natural.

 

E

[OttawaCuple 15]

Sorry, I know this is slightly off-topic cuz we're talking about nudity around OUR kids, but it reminded me about nudity in MY family when I was growing up ...

 

I grew up in the 50's. Like most 50's couples, Mum & Dad slept in twin beds and if I went into their bedroom in the morning and found Dad in Mum's bed, my Dad would explain that Mum was cold. I remembering being jealous cuz Dad never let me into his bed when I was cold.

 

I'd occasionally see my parents nude, but usually it was when one or the other were in the bathroom having just showered or something & I needed in to have a pee. I remember one time, when I was about 7, noticing my Dad's penis was a LOT bigger than I was used to seeing it and I must have been looking pretty wide-eyed at it cuz my Dad quickly covered himself with a towel ... and that was the last time I was ever allowed to see him naked.

 

My brother, who is 5 years older than me, never let me see him naked, but one time when he was about 15 (so I was about 10) I happened to come out of my bedroom right when he was walking by, naked, to the bathroom and he bolted into the bathroom, covering himself with his hands as he ran ... I never saw HIM naked again either. I still laugh everytime I remember that!!

 

MrsOttawaCuple

[eubiotist 15]

Hi, folks!

 

Euby here (76 years old now, looking for a sexually liberated mate).

 

Back before I met my first wife (i.e., before 1966), I had been an "organized nudist" for about 10 years, a member of what was then the American Sunbathing Association, and a frequent visitor to a nudist resort near San Bernardino, CA. I believed then, and still believe now, that there's actually nothing whatsoever wrong with being nude with your kids. Of course, as with other things: if you aren't *comfortable* with intra-family nudity, *don't practice it!*

 

But when I married the first time, my wife was pretty up tight about nudity; so I was never nude in the presence of my stepdaughters. When I re-marry, or get into a committed intimate relationship, (hopefully not too far into the future), it won't be with anyone who is up tight about nudity or sexual expression.

 

My experience of organized nudism was that most of the nudists that I knew were pretty up tight about sex. The organized nudist movement was then, and mostly still is, at great pains to point out that there's no inherent connection between nudity and sex; that social nudity is not in and of itself sexually arousing. That's quite true; but my view was, and is, that seeing an attractive body of the sex that you're attracted to *is* sometimes arousing, whether the body is nude or clothed; and that that's perfectly normal and completely OK. There's a lot of discussion on nudist internet forums of what a guy should do if he gets an erection at a nudist venue. My view of this is: "So what's the big deal? Males simply *do* get erections in the normal course of events. Live with it!". What if a nude dad should get an erection in the presence of his kids? Particularly his daughters? Seems to me that would be a good occasion to do a bit of responsible teaching.

 

Nowadays I'm unwilling to call myself "a nudist"--for two reasons. First, I don't share organized nudism's disdain for overt sexual expression. And second, it doesn't make any sense to me to travel for an hour or more to get to an expensive nudist resort, when you could be nude with friends at home for free, if you're so inclined. I call myself a "clothing-optionalist".

 

Hugs to all,

Euby

[nteracialcpl 15]

Im not a swinger but Ive been getting interested in nudism. At other sites Ive been reading about nudism and family nudism and it seems pretty cool. They talk about how its natural and nonsexual. Then I come here and Ive been reading several post about nudism, beaches, nudist clubs and such. It seems that theres quite a few post that mention incest and mention that theres sex at some nude clubs. Im beginning to think that there's more incest and sex happening in front of kids than some people are willing to admit. Some of the incest encounters have been nightmares for the kids Im sure. Then again you read that some encounters seem to be pleasurable to the kids. The pleasurable ones seem to be between teens of the same age and ones that are both interested. Of course I realize incest can and does take place in non-nudist, non-swinging families but Im assuming it takes place more often in these familes because the parents are more open to sex and nudity. I don't really know what Im trying to say, but if you look over the post, there is a lot of talk about incest here. Like I said I think that its happening more often than people will admit.

Wow! I don't think that I had read that (the incestuous overtones/undertones), at all, in the posts that I have read.

And, I don't think that nudity necessarily equates itself with sexual promiscuity. Sometimes, I'm more intrigued by the thought, the idea of how beautiful this woman must be, underneath her clothes, than I have been, a few times, in the midst of nudity.

I guess, I'm trying to say that scantily-clad can be just as erotic, in certain circumstances, as full-on nudity, and, therefore, equally as provocative, or, more so.

[essexcouple 15]

We don't think there's anything wrong with family nudity, its totally non-sexual, and its natural. We don't have a problem with it at all, and anyone who doesn't like it because they think it's sexual should not have a family. It's fine to be modest at home, but not because you think its perverted.

[FlaPlaya561 48]

True essexcouple ...This thread is one of the most popular on here. ..

[essexcouple 15]

It's popular because people relate it to sex, and nudity is NOT sexual! That's the mistake people make. We were all born naked, was only when the MAN made the mistake that we realised we were naked! Typical men, spoiling everything!

[chetthomas05 15]

When you are not around naked people, you will find it quite awkward to be with naked people. Growing up the only thing that came close to family nudity was my dad walking around in his underwear sometimes and when we were outside I would walk up on him when he was going to the bathroom (we lived on a ranch and when you’re out in the field you have to take care of business).

 

Seeing his “unit” freaked me out because of the size difference. I would always think to myself, “Gosh, am I going to be that big when I grow up?” I still don’t even know if I have reached his size…I hope I have.

 

Right now I sleep nude because it is extremely comfortable not having boxers impede where my penis or balls want to go.

[JnCC 24]

What if a nude dad should get an erection in the presence of his kids? Particularly his daughters? Seems to me that would be a good occasion to do a bit of responsible teaching.

Screw the "responsible teaching!" I think it would be an excellent occasion to wrap a goddamn towel around yourself.

 

There is no valid excuse for deliberately exposing ANY child, especially your own daughters, to your erect penis. NONE!

 

This is the kind of attitude that gives organised nudism a bad name.

 

I'm certainly no prude. As a former member of the AANR, I was a card-carrying nudist for 5 years. But if I were ever to witness a man with an erection cavorting among children (either his own or somebody else's) at a club or campground, I would mention it immediately to management. If the situation were not handled immediately and to my satisfaction, I would submit a letter of resignation to the club manager.

 

I would further make it clear to them that a copy of that letter, citing the exact circumstances of the event which led to my resignation, would be going to ASA, the AANR, or whatever sanctioning body the club was affiliated with. I wouldn't rule out submitting a copy to the local county prosecutor as well.

 

I'm sorry, but if a grown man doesn't understand why it's wrong to expose children to his erection, he doesn't belong in the nudist lifestyle.

 

If the club management doesn't understand why it's wrong, then I don't belong there.

 

I'm curious...What in the hell could possibly lead to your having an erection in the presence of your own children in the first place?

[bill&sabrina 22]

 

I'm curious...What in the hell could possibly lead to your having an erection in the presence of your own children in the first place?

 

I can think of lots of things that causes me to have an erection in the presence of my kids.

[essexcouple 15]

What on earth is wrong with being nude!! I don't get you people. My kids are perfectly well balanced and adjusted, and we have never had a problem with being open at home. There's nothing even remotely sexual about it!

[kimnbob 15]

We don't have kids, but if we did, we would be comfortable with it, we go nude often in our house and we go to the nudist beach occasionally, so we consider ourselves kinda semi-nudists. We wouldn't flaunt it, but if they saw us it wouldn't be an issue. I do have a comment about going to the bathroom with the door open though. I (Bob) have always considered going to the bathroom to be a very private function that I do not wish to share (either mine with someone, or someone elses with me). Kim doesn't mind and it has caused some discussion in our house. I'm constantly telling her to close the door when she goes. Early on in our relationship she tried to enter the bathroom when I was going and I got very upset. She doesn't do that any more.

[tojoe59 17]

Not to change the subject..but I remember when I was 10-11 seeing M&D nude and having oral sex in the Den. where no one was to see them. I can remember dad had his face in mom's lap and she was ok with it. i know it may be out side the line but does anyone else remember the M&D doing it and seeing it?