Single men or cheaters?

[Guest Unregistered]

We are newbies to the lifestyle, just put up an ad. One thing that's bugging us is that we have been contacted many times by "single" men who are actually married and looking to cheat on their wife. One even admitted it and expected us to be ok with it because he was being honest with us. But he couldn't be honest with his wife? Are we unusual for being turned off by this? Do these guys think that just because we are swingers we have no morals? I don't get it. Has anyone else here had similar experiences?

[domedomeOOO 15]

most of the "single men" are not single. they are married jerks who do think it's alright to cheat!!! and alot of them get away with it.

[curiousagain 326]

Yep, domedomeooo is telling it like it is. That is one area the net has it over the clubs I believe. It would be easier to get a hint if the guy is a cheater via some communication before meeting as is typical on the net. If you just run into a single guy in the club and play right away, the odds may be pretty good he is actually a cheater. At least that is my opinion and probably worth what you just paid for it.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

One even admitted it and expected us to be ok with it because he was being honest with us. But he couldn't be honest with his wife?

And these guys can be the worst!

 

They think their "honesty" with swingers in admitting they are married makes it okay to play with them--as if it takes the "dishonesty" out of cheating on their wife. :rollseyes

 

I hope you will register so that you can reply to your thread and get involved in the discussions on the board.

 

Welcome!

 

LM

[good times 991]

Are we unusual for being turned off by this?

 

No, you are solidly in the majority.

 

Do these guys think that just because we are swingers we have no morals?

 

Apparently, if you do a search on "cheating" on this board you will find dozens of posts from guys who can't understand why we would think what they are doing is wrong.

 

I don't get it. Has anyone else here had similar experiences?

 

Yep, thats why it now says "NO SINGLE MALES" in or sls ad.

 

I would also have to say that curiousagain's opinion is a fact at the clubs. If a guy says he is visiting from out of town the odds are he is a married cheater.

 

I don't know any swingers that would knowingly play with a cheating husband.

 

 

Our response if emailed by a cheater off our ad would be "I'm sorry sir, but if you can't keep your wife excited enough to keep you sexually satisfied then I can assure you we are not interested in you in the least", then we would block him.

[Vespertine 31]

Are we unusual for being turned off by this?

Not at all! You're like 99.9% of us on the board. Most of the members of this board abhor cheaters.

Do these guys think that just because we are swingers we have no morals?

Yes. That is a common misconception that most cheaters believe about Swingers. It's like they believe we've all placed adds 'just for them'. Most can't fathom why we won't play with them. We don't even reply to contacts made by single men anymore. In our experience, they get real nasty when they hear the words 'No'. We send a generic 'Thanks, but no thanks' and put them on ignore if they continue contacting us.

[TNT 1,155]

Unfortunately when being a couple that is open to single men dealing with those who are married and cheating is one of the pitfalls.

 

When we are contacted by those who are married and cheating we always reply the same way...Thanks, but we don't play with married men without their wives.

 

Don't let it bother you and just move on. There are a lot of great single men out there.

 

Teresa

[curiousagain 326]

I am afraid the same might be said of single females both online and at clubs. It has been my experience that at least half or more of the single females on swinging websites are cheating females. One of the first clues is they don't want to be seen in public with you at popular places. etc. Usually at some point, you get the "I'm actually married but my husband lets me do this" When you ask if it's OK to ask the husband and get it straight from the horse's mouth, it's a whole new world!!! They disappear faster than a paycheck.

 

I think I am going to hush now before all couples quit playing with ANY singles.

[TNT 1,155]

Your right curiousagain, we always talk about the single men or married men cheating, but the truth is there are just as many single females or married females cheating. It's not just limited to one sex.

 

Teresa

[good times 991]

I agree with you curiousagain and Teresa, but doesn't it seem like the males are much more "in your face" (for lack of better words) about it than the women?

 

It just seems to me that if you call a cheating woman to task she immediately gets embarrassed and makes a hasty exit, whereas the men seem to come on strong with the excuses and justifications.

 

We have run across several cheating women and but it seems much more rare, of course, single females are rare so maybe the percentage is about the same. I bet if we went down to the club right now we could find at least one cheating male though, and its an off night.

[Spoomonkey 421]

Maybe "cheating" needs it's own seperate board around here...

 

This is coming up a LOT!

 

Any idea why???

 

It seems to be a daily occurence...

 

Unregistered, you are right in the middle of the "mainstream" on this issue. Cheaters are not swingers and simply don't belong in the lifestyle... There are folks who will play with them - out of ignorance, desperation or apathy - but that doesn't justify it, in my book...

 

Spoomonkey

[JnCC 24]

we have been contacted many times by "single" men who are actually married and looking to cheat on their wife. One even admitted it and expected us to be ok with it because he was being honest with us. But he couldn't be honest with his wife?

Probably not. I think a lot of guys new to the Lifestyle read these forums and see references to how important "honesty" is among swingers, so they naturally assume that by being honest with you about their marital status, they'll be accepted with open arms. I also think that a number of cheating males would love to include their wives, but feel they can't for whatever reasons. That's my personal belief on the subject...I have no evidence one way or another, but I DO know that most people in here don't share that belief.

 

Are we unusual for being turned off by this?

No, you're in the majority by far. But don't let what others think about the subject influence you one way or another. What's "acceptable" in swinging is for you and your wife to decide, and that includes who you do it with.

 

Do these guys think that just because we are swingers we have no morals?

No, but they probably believe you practice a lot more "latitude" in your morals than vanilla couples. Most of the people in this country are NOT swingers, and believe right down to the soles of their Judeo-Christian sandals that "swingers have no morals." On the other hand, most swingers are not cheaters, and believe right down to the stilletto spikes of their "FMRN" heels that "cheaters have no morals." The truth of the matter is for you to decide. Regardless of how you may feel about it, I think it's safe to say that an "HIV+ bi-male top" will get a better reception from the swinging community than a single male who is known to be cheating. (The rules seem to be relaxed considerably for cheating bi-females, however)

 

Curiousagain - You're rightagain as well...there are a lot of "not-exactly-single" women in the chat rooms, as well as a fair number of "My husband and I are happily married, BUT..." types in the Lifestyle. And if I had a dollar for every lying-out-his-ass, "single" male in the Lifestyle, I could hire a Proctologist to "get the stick out of my ass" as one member has suggested...

[Spoomonkey 421]

...if I had a dollar for every lying-out-his-ass, "single" male in the Lifestyle, I could hire a Proctologist to "get the stck out of my ass" as one member has suggested...

 

Actually - stick removal is a fairly inexpensive proceedure...

 

It can actually be done without the help of a proctologist - all that is neccessary is a firm grip and a "can do" attitude...

 

 

Spoomonkey

[jcbicouple 24]

most of the "single men" are not single. they are married jerks who do think it's alright to cheat!!! and alot of them get away with it.

Problem is....It's the cheating morons that give the real singles a bad rap! People remember the negatives easier than they remember the positives. We've met a lot of singles (male and female) that were not cheaters. We end the conversation quickly if they are attached with a "Sorry, We aren't interested in playing with half of a couple". We've only met two "single" males that were really cheaters. One we figured out, one we found out too late. 99.9 % of the singles that say they are single really are. Most cheaters will tell YOU they are, they just won't tell their wives. Just make sure you ask the magical question "Are you married or attached?" We add attached because people that live with a partner but don't have the paper sometimes think they are "smart" in saying they are single....They aren't. As far as we're concerned, if their live in doesn't know, they're still cheating. You'll probably have to draw your own line with that one. We would rather not be with people with steady gf/bf either.

 

P.S. They also make it rough on the couples that really do have permission to play separately. Of course, they probably wouldn't present themselves as "single". Still....It's because of cheaters that we say no to anyone playing without their spouse. (Unless we know them both)

[EternallySingle 32]

I agree with you curiousagain and Teresa, but doesn't it seem like the males are much more "in your face" (for lack of better words) about it than the women?

 

It just seems to me that if you call a cheating woman to task she immediately gets embarrassed and makes a hasty exit, whereas the men seem to come on strong with the excuses and justifications.

 

We have run across several cheating women and but it seems much more rare, of course, single females are rare so maybe the percentage is about the same. I bet if we went down to the club right now we could find at least one cheating male though, and its an off night.

 

I don't know about swinging, but in the 'vanilla' world (at least around where I live) married women looking to cheat actually get offended at single men that turn them down and get extremely loud when you call them out on it. On several occasions I've had women throw drinks in my face, call me gay at the top of their lungs, slap me and run out crying, all because I turned them down. Again, these are women NOT involved in swinging. I'd HOPE women who profess to be swingers don't act like this. Then again, they are probably not as desperate for attentention.

 

Which is, as I've learned, the number 2 excuse for cheating by men and the number 1 excuse for women. Oddly, sex is the number 3 excuse for both. Respect is number 1 for men and number 2 for women. Gotta love those sexuality programs on Oxygen (oops...too much information )

[intuition897 2,179]

I agree with so many posters on this thread that I can't think of who to quote first!

 

Spoomonkey, Curiousagain, TNT, GoodTimes, Vespertine... even JnCC, whom I've disagreed with before on this very subject. I'm sure it's true that lots of men - AND women - would prefer to include their spouses in the fun, but personally it still doesn't matter a damn bit to me how badly they feel about it AFTER the fact; they still made the decision to disinclude their s/o, to put a secret ad up on the internet, to meet people for coffee 'and maybe more', and put their own self-serving desires ahead of theirs. It's not the sex that's the problem; it's the betrayal involved. If there's any possibility that we may injure another couple's relationship, we refuse to play. We know we can't solve everyone's problems or prevent them from cheating with someone else, but we can at least take the high road and sleep better at night knowing that at the very least, we haven't enabled a cheater in his or her endeavours. I just finished sending a curt reply to a 'single' dude whose ad claims he's part of a couple, but in whose email claims to be single. I told him that if he's looking to play without his partner's knowledge, he's looking at the wrong profile.

 

Rest assured, guest, you're in good company.

[willygoat1 16]

Not at all! You're like 99.9% of us on the board. Most of the members of this board abhor cheaters.

 

Yes. That is a common misconception that most cheaters believe about Swingers. It's like they believe we've all placed adds 'just for them'. Most can't fathom why we won't play with them. We don't even reply to contacts made by single men anymore. In our experience, they get real nasty when they hear the words 'No'. We send a generic 'Thanks, but no thanks' and put them on ignore if they continue contacting us.

 

ALL cheaters Ves????

[Vespertine 31]

ALL cheaters Ves????

Anyone who plays behind their spouse's back and solicits us for a meeting will be ignored... We don't want to be hunted down by jealous wives & husbands!

[WildMainePussy 15]

I also think that a number of cheating males would love to include their wives, but feel they can't for whatever reasons. That's my personal belief on the subject...I have no evidence one way or another, but I DO know that most people in here don't share that belief.

 

We know a married friend who has signed up on a site. I know the reason why he wants to play...his wife's just about dropped dead in the bedroom...she chased him, broke up his marriage, finally got a wedding ring on him and lives on easy street - figures her work's done. She has little interest and now due to surgery last year uses that as an excuse not to enjoy sex with him. I know this guy is totally hot and very capable (yes I'm guilty) so it is her problem, not his. I'm trying to figure a way to get him openly with us but don't want to ruin a friendship either. We're not that great friends with his wife, more so with him as we see him more often. But he's the only married guy I would ever consider going near. All others need not apply.

[northindycpl 32]

Maybe "cheating" needs it's own seperate board around here...

 

This is coming up a LOT!

 

Any idea why???

 

It seems to be a daily occurence...

 

Spoomonkey

 

What is up with it? As I am fairly new to the board, I wonder if it has been an issue since the start, or is there just an onslaught of new Cheaters out there?

 

I have a grave concern about Oprahs show..... I have said this before, Oprahs show on Swinging included in segment one, cheating wives. Segment 2 was swingers. It irritated me to no end that they were paired together, like they were one and the same.... or better yet.... as my friends said... Swinging is an alternative to Cheating!!!

 

I know that we had a huge jump in members after the show... I wonder if there are cheaters that have been brought here the same way? Is that causing the influx... or is it just a cold winter?

 

I volunteer to be the anti-cheating-watcher-woman on the board.... I have some frustration issues I need to work through

[JnCC 24]

I agree with so many posters on this thread that I can't think of who to quote first!

Spoomonkey, Curiousagain, TNT, GoodTimes, Vespertine... even JnCC, whom I've disagreed with before on this very subject

I think intelligent, reasonable people can disagree on one element of a subject and still be "of like mind." There are many people in the Lifestyle who routinely do things I would never do, but I still consider them brothers (and sisters) beneath the flesh. It helps to remember that each of us is as unique as the experiences, friends, and circumstances that have brought us to this point in our lives.

 

We know a married friend who has signed up on a site. I know the reason why he wants to play...his wife's just about dropped dead in the bedroom...he's the only married guy I would ever consider going near. All others need not apply.

I think somebody once said that "ALL ethics were situational ethics." If they didn't say it, I will. Trying to figure out what motivates people to do what they do can be a frustrating and futile effort. Trying to locate the "ground zero" of a failed marriage is almost impossible, because every time you think you've found it, the other party brings up a negative word or action that preceded it.

 

People cheat for many reasons. Some, like your friend, are "driven" to it by cruel or emotionally distant spouses. Others just want more than what they have, or more than what the other person has, and have no moral qualms about taking it. (If you've ever watched a bunch of 4-year olds in a play group, you can almost tell which ones are likely to be cheaters as adults) For some people, it's a combination of the 2...they may have an innate tendency to cheat, but better judgement prevents them from acting on it until some other influence comes to bear...a particularly bitter argument with a spouse, for example.

 

Unless you know both parties personally, and have some knowledge of the interpersonal dynamics between them, you probably don't know why one of them cheats.

 

Whether or not you play with known cheaters is a personal matter, not unlike the decision to play with people outside your age, race, or sexual-preference. The difference is, that if you do, you can definitely expect a lot more fallout from your friends than you would get for swinging with people outside any of the other "norms."

[intuition897 2,179]

I think intelligent, reasonable people can disagree on one element of a subject and still be "of like mind." There are many people in the Lifestyle who routinely do things I would never do, but I still consider them brothers (and sisters) beneath the flesh. It helps to remember that each of us is as unique as the experiences, friends, and life-circumstances that have brought us to where we are at this point in our lives.

 

JnCC, I agree with you. I sure hope it didn't sound derogatory in any way, 'cause I sure didn't mean to! I just noticed we tend to sparr a bit on this particular subject, and it's one of the only ones we've really debated back & forth. So anyone who's read our posts might think we naturally dislike one another. I don't think that's the case, at least not from my end. I appreciate the well-thought out responses, and I love a good debate

 

I'm sure that we may all need to 'agree to disagree' and yet we would still be of like mind. I just don't believe that cheating is one of those things that some couples are 'into', like heavy S&M or B&D, assorted fetishes, bathroom play, etc. While those kinds of activities are a matter of taste and choice, choosing whether or not to play with a cheater involves the morality issue of there being an element of dishonesty in the arrangement... where other choices, like whether or not to explore B&D fantasies or a foot fetish, do not. So it's not just another option or question to be grouped in with the rest - at least not for Mr. and I - it's a completely separate issue. Fundamental to the very heart of swinging.

 

Frankly I don't CARE what their reasons for cheating are. All I know is that they're lacking the strength of character needed to make the situation right. There! I've said it! My honest opinion. (Let the flamethrowing begin!) I sympathize with the sufferer, but wallowing in one's problems is no way to live. You only get one kick at the cat here, so do the right thing, even if it's hard to do, and you won't have to regret it when you're laying on your death bed. So what advice would I give the gentleman in WildMainePussy's post? You confront the woman. Warn her that he needs more attention or affection, more effort on her part; the reason he's telling her this, he says, is because he needs more from a relationship than she's giving him. She's asking more from him than he is willing to give (and he is perfectly justified in saying that, don't you think? A sexless marriage is not something that anyone should have to endure out of obligation). He wants to be with her, and he loves her, so he's giving her fair warning, and an opportunity to do some soul searching and decide whether or not she values him enough to make an honest go of it. If there is some reason WHY she does not want to have sex with him, for God's sake, say it! Give HIM the opportunity to find a solution to THAT. The man is not a mind reader. It's drawing a line in the sand, giving her an ultimatum. It sounds harsh, but it's tough love. Time to let the marriage evolve into a grown-up relationship where everyone is responsible for their half of it.

 

But this is not an easy thing to do. It's scary because when you put the ball in someone else's court like that, and allow them to make a decision regarding your future, you may not like what they decide. But it will be the truth.

[curiousagain 326]

But he's the only married guy I would ever consider going near. All others need not apply.

 

A perfect example of situational ethics. We ALL are guilty of situational ethics. Would I walk into a store and steal a crescent wrench?? NO

Why? well, for one I don't believe in stealing and two I would go to jail, three I would lose my job, etc. etc. etc.j

 

If I was jobless, broke, and had hungry kids at home might I walk in a store and steal food?? Maybe. I haven't been there, but if it happened, I'm not going to sit here and say I wouldn't do it. Would I exhaust all other possibilities first?? Yes. I have been jobless and broke and tried other things first. It never got to the point of having to steal but if it had, I can't say I wouldn't. But I do know it would have bothered me till I died.

[curiousagain 326]

I think intelligent, reasonable people can disagree on one element of a subject and still be "of like mind." There are many people in the Lifestyle who routinely do things I would never do, but I still consider them brothers (and sisters) beneath the flesh. It helps to remember that each of us is as unique as the experiences, friends, and circumstances that have brought us to this point in our lives.

 

I know some swingers play with cheaters and far be it from me to throw stones, I live in a glass house like most people do if they look behind the paint.

 

What I have a problem with is cheaters who EXPECT to be accepted by all swingers. As has been said, we are not all into the same things, we can agree to disagree, but we shouldn't expect acceptance by all others. Most couples don't play with single men. I don't get upset about it or try to change their mind. I just shrug my shouldners, say "cool" and move on.

 

edit: OK, words mean things. I guess what I am saying when I say accept is embrace. There is a big difference between accept and embrace. Thanks for the PM pointing that out.

 

It's a big world out there, anyone will find a welcome mat somewhere, it just might not be at the exact address they want.

[jcbicouple 24]

Frankly I don't CARE what their reasons for cheating are. All I know is that they're lacking the strength of character needed to make the situation right. There! I've said it! My honest opinion. (Let the flamethrowing begin!) I sympathize with the sufferer, but wallowing in one's problems is no way to live. You only get one kick at the cat here, so do the right thing, even if it's hard to do, and you won't have to regret it when you're laying on your death bed. So what advice would I give the gentleman in WildMainePussy's post?

Here's a bit of advice for him: If you don't like your life: YOU are the only person that has the ability to change it.

Frankly, The bit of "My wife/husband doesn't give me sex or hold me/show me affection." is the most bogus excuse there is.......Spouses know when their mates are cheating and rarely does a person that is being hurt and lied to want to hold and caress the person that's doing it. Ask yourself "When was the last time someone pissed me off and I thought "Gosh, I'd really like to hug them." It's not in the human nature! Someone hurts you: You don't want to love them and make THEM feel good! You want to ignore them or kick their ass.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Here's a bit of advice for him: If you don't like your life: YOU are the only person that has the ability to change it.

Frankly, The bit of "My wife/husband doesn't give me sex or hold me/show me affection." is the most bogus excuse there is.......Spouses know when their mates are cheating and rarely does a person that is being hurt and lied to want to hold and caress the person that's doing it. Ask yourself "When was the last time someone pissed me off and I thought "Gosh, I'd really like to hug them." It's not in the human nature! Someone hurts you: You don't want to love them and make THEM feel good! You want to ignore them or kick their ass.

This cracked me up it is so "in your face."

 

Your words are so RIGHT ON!

 

Great post jcbicouple!

 

LM

[intuition897 2,179]

Here's a bit of advice for him: If you don't like your life: YOU are the only person that has the ability to change it.

Frankly, The bit of "My wife/husband doesn't give me sex or hold me/show me affection." is the most bogus excuse there is.......Spouses know when their mates are cheating and rarely does a person that is being hurt and lied to want to hold and caress the person that's doing it. Ask yourself "When was the last time someone pissed me off and I thought "Gosh, I'd really like to hug them." It's not in the human nature! Someone hurts you: You don't want to love them and make THEM feel good! You want to ignore them or kick their ass.

 

jcbicouple, you are so right! You took exactly what I was trying to say and whittled it down to a single paragraph! Great post.

[thump69us 15]

jcbicouple, you are so right! You took exactly what I was trying to say and whittled it down to a single paragraph! Great post.

we agree also. we get tired of single men contacting us and saying that they play but their wife isn't into it. well, then we aren't into you is our response.

[WildMainePussy 15]

We've known the couple in question for almost 9 years...before and after they were married. He's spoken to her 3 times in the last 2 years regarding this unfortunate situation. My s.o. is a retired doctor so he's spoken with us regarding the surgery angle. I suggested recently he start cutting off her excuses, if her back hurts, haul her ass to their doctor for a check up. He did and there is nothing wrong with her back. The doctor who did the surgery says she's healed nicely..there's another excuse out the door. When he does speak to her regarding how she's treating him, things go fine for about 4-6 weeks and then it's same old/same old. How would you like to be in bed, starting to try to stimulate your partner and have her get up to use the bathroom and then leave the room instead of coming back?

 

Her first marriage ended because she got bored....the second because the husband was abusive. Now she's working on #3.

 

He's trying to keep things together for them, he's very considerate of her to the point he still opens car doors for her but he's running out of rope in the romance department.

[jcbicouple 24]

When he does speak to her regarding how she's treating him, things go fine for about 4-6 weeks and then it's same old/same old.

Was he still having sex with you (or someone else, other than his wife) during this time? Has he ever confessed and told his wife he was sorry?

 

How would you like to be in bed, starting to try to stimulate your partner and have her get up to use the bathroom and then leave the room instead of coming back?

Goes back to our previous post: Would you want to be with someone that hurt you? and frankly, If I were having affairs: I'd expect it.

 

We aren't trying to be mean to you wildmainepussy, just trying to point out that you are defending someone that is not fixing his own problems, but adding to them instead.

Lots of people have been in failed marraiges. Lots of people have had affairs. From what I've seen people that have affairs fall into two catagories:

Catagory A: They want out of a bad marraige and they don't know how so they use the person they're having an affair with as a crutch for support to get out or force their partner to leave them.

Catagory B: They really are either inconsiderate people or people that need their lives to be miserable, and they need someone to tell them they aren't a bad person.

 

Finally: You have no idea how this man treats his wife when you aren't around. You are going by what you see when people are there and by what he says. I (Mrs. JCbi) was married to a "wonderful" man, that was a complete ass whenever we were alone. When I wanted out, everyone including my own sister, told me I was the bitch. Thank God I got smart enough to have a brief affair that gave me the courage to say "I want a divorce." (Mind you those words came after one kiss!) I don't speak to most of those people anymore. My sister saw the real person for herself shortly before the affair, and realized that I had been absolutely miserable for the previous 11 years, and appologized. (I adore her with every ounce of my being, and I never blamed her for not knowing.) Now before you begin throwing stones, let me end this by saying: I (and my husband) understand affairs happen, we've said that before; What we don't understand are the people who say they still love them, and continue to hurt that person and act like their spouse is the one in the wrong. If you're going to have affairs, lie and cheat: Get out. I never have and never will understand how anyone can say they love their spouse while they cheat and lie.

 

ok, You may begin the thrashing.

[jcbicouple 24]

Guess we should post again to say that we do realize there are people that have "mistake" affairs (for lack of better terminology). What we mean are those that get "caught up" or "infatuated" by someone, but the only way to fix that is to talk to your spouse and accept that there are consequences to be had from your actions. Not every marraige fails because one of them had an affair, that's not what was meant in the above post. It's those that don't take the time or care enough to fix their marraiges that fall into the above catagory, and if they have repeated affairs: You can bet they fall into the Catagory A or B above.

[WildMainePussy 15]

Once they got married, that was it...only after a couple of times before hand.

Yes, what goes on at home is truly unknown as we only hear his side most of the time.

But he says she was really hot for him until just after they married but had lived together for a couple of years already so personality quirks would have been known.

[Vespertine 31]

Finally: You have no idea how this man treats his wife when you aren't around. You are going by what you see when people are there and by what he says. I (Mrs. JCbi) was married to a "wonderful" man, that was a complete ass whenever we were alone. When I wanted out, everyone including my own sister, told me I was the bitch.

Excellent point to bring up, jcbicouple!

 

I have known several men (and a few women) that fall into this category. I always try to remember there are two sides to a story. I've watched a close friend go through a similar experience. Her 'Mr. Wonderful' was an abusive policeman who was very, very good at hiding his true self from everyone.

 

As far as a wife or husband withholding sex 'just because'-

I don't think anyone's going to intentionally withhold sex from someone without a reason. There's always a reason. More often than not we're just not privy to it.

[SluttyWife 17]

I think it is safe to say that most swingers give that a big thumbs-down.

Like fleas on your dog that won't wash away. LOL

 

Slutty Wife

[JnCC 24]

I (Mrs. JCbi) was married to a "wonderful" man, that was a complete ass whenever we were alone. When I wanted out, everyone including my own sister, told me I was the bitch. Thank God I got smart enough to have a brief affair that gave me the courage to say "I want a divorce."...My sister saw the real person for herself shortly before the affair, and realized that I had been absolutely miserable for the previous 11 years,

 

If you're going to have affairs, lie and cheat: Get out. I never have and never will understand how anyone can say they love their spouse while they cheat and lie.

 

ok, You may begin the thrashing.

"Thrashing?" My dear, we only "thrash" people for petty offenses in here, things like "taking one for the team," "breaking an agreed upon rule at a party or club," or "wearing a belt that doesn't match your shoes."

 

Cheaters, we burn at the stake. After first hanging, castrating, and disembowling them, of course.

 

Thanks for being honest, and sharing your perspective on cheating as one who's seen the problem from both sides. Whatever it took to give you the courage and self-assurance to leave, I'm glad you did it. Sometimes, it takes some outside influence to remind us that healthy relationships are supposed to be mutually reinforcing, and that sex is supposed to be "fun" more often than not.

 

I still think you're gonna wish you had some asbestos underwear, though...

[Spoomonkey 421]

Cheaters, we burn at the stake. After first hanging, castrating, and disembowling them, of course.

 

Yeah...

 

Nothing's too good for a cheater, eh?

 

I wonder how this compares to having your heart ripped out by someone you love who - instead of being honest with you - decides to get his jollies behind their back? Ever looked into the face of a spouse who is, for the first time, realizing that their trust has just been shit on?

 

But, I hear what you are saying - a guy's got a dick, so a guy's got needs - and we just need to open our arms, homes and wife's vagina for them... It's the "enlightened" thing to do...

 

Puts us right up there with Unicef and Amnesty International...

 

Spoomonkey

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I still think you're gonna wish you had some asbestos underwear, though...

I don't get it.

 

LM

[JnCC 24]

Ever looked into the face of a spouse who is, for the first time, realizing that their trust has just been shit on?

No, but twice in the last 5 years I've had good friends, ironically, both airline pilots, tell me of their wives infidelities, and asked for advice. The first was the most poignant. He and his wife were extremely close to my second wife and I, almost best friends, you could say. They were both really neat people, fun to be around, but very serious about their kids and family. We attended their wedding, vacationed together, and partied together. We even hosted the baby shower for their firstborn son. After 10 years together, she stopped traveling with him on his overseas trips, something she had done since he started with the airlines. Sensing that "something was up," he tapped his own phone before leaving on a 9-day trip. I'll never forget his description of hearing the tape for the first time...

 

"The only way I can describe it, is it was like ice-water was being injected into my veins..."

 

The phone call had been to the Boys Vice-principal at the school their son attended. They divorced shortly afterwards.

 

The other guy was almost as sad. We had numerous conversations over the telephone and in person. You don't typically think of an airline captain crying, but they do when they find out their wives have been screwing a guy they previously thought of as one of their best friends. The situation with his wife was a little different from the first couple...I thought I detected the faint odor of "skank" in the air the first time I met her. But her infidelity, though known to myself and many others in the community, came as a complete surprise to him, and cut every bit as deeply when he found out.

 

I suggested a local counselor, and because of my experience in the Lifestyle, told him that sometimes sex was just a response to boredom (she was a stay-at-home mom). A number of her other affairs were eventually revealed, and they too, divorced.

 

BTW...in an industry known for cheating husbands and gold-digging flight attendants, neither of these guys was a cheater. Both were as stand-up of men and fathers as I have ever known. In fact, in the second case, maybe a little too-much so.

 

But, I hear what you are saying - a guy's got a dick, so a guy's got needs - and we just need to open our arms, homes and wife's vagina for them... It's the "enlightened" thing to do...

That's not what I said. Maybe somebody else in another post, but not moi. The post I was responding to was by the female half of "jcbicouple" in which she revealed that she had had an affair.

 

Perhaps you meant to say, "A woman's got a vagina, so a woman's got needs...so we ought to open arms our arms, homes, and husbands fly for them?"

 

Dwight Eisenhower once said..."I detest war as only a soldier who has seen combat, and seen firsthand the ravages it suffers upon men, possibly can"

[DBL D 120]

We are newbies to the lifestyle, just put up an ad. One thing that's bugging us is that we have been contacted many times by "single" men who are actually married and looking to cheat on their wife. One even admitted it and expected us to be ok with it because he was being honest with us. But he couldn't be honest with his wife? Are we unusual for being turned off by this? Do these guys think that just because we are swingers we have no morals? I don't get it. Has anyone else here had similar experiences?

 

No Morals? No, I don't think so. You are overreacting. They know that swingers aren't as uptight about sexual matters as the general public, so they start there.

 

Just block singles to your ad. Can't do that? Try SLS.

 

Male D

[demann2k 15]

I am a single guy and new to this....the board and the choice. I have read the responses in this thread and I have to say thank you. It has taught me to try and be patient.

[curiousagain 326]

JNCC, your PM box is full.

[Spoomonkey 421]

You don't typically think of an airline captain crying, but they do when they find out their wives have been screwing a guy they previously thought of as one of their best friends.

 

So - hypothetically - let's say that I was that guys best friend, banging his "bored" wife... Nothing wrong with doing that is there? I mean, she was really striving to keep her "primary relationship unscathed" - maybe just "trying to fix one specific problem", a lack of intimacy, perhaps - and really, that is such a better alternative than just dumping the loser in the first place, isn't it? Heck - I've heard an arguement that, in a way, it was almost a noble thing...

 

I - as your pal's best friend - was just doing him and the wife a HUGE favor by banging her and keeping her happy... Heck - she could have been seeking couple's counseling or filing for divorce... But - because of me - the obvious open minded, intolerant saint that I am - I just gave her what she needed...

 

And I gave it to her good by the way...

 

Sure - airline captains cry - but it's not my fault... I was doing a favor...

 

Right?

 

After all - hasn't this been the arguement all along?

 

Shall I provide all the links, or do you recall them without the help?

 

BTW...in an industry known for cheating husbands and gold-digging flight attendants, neither of these guys was a cheater. Both were as stand-up of men and fathers as I have ever known.

 

It's too bad moms who raise children, have jobs, a house to clean, supper to cook and a husband who has forgotten how to buy flowers once in a while aren't so "stand-up" as these pilots... If they were, maybe my side of the debate would make sense... Because then they'd be victims - like the pilots... But as it is, they're just frumpy...

 

Fortunately, they kinda deserve what's coming to them...

 

Right?

 

Well - who cares...

 

Because we shouldn't judge a cheater because we don't know every individual situation... It's much easier to pretend that cheating has no victims - and thus is as morally respectable as swinging. Hell - it is really just all about us getting our rocks off because we "can't see [ourselves] having sex with the same person for the rest of [our lives]."

 

That levels the playing field, doesn't it?

 

Dwight Eisenhower once said..."I detest war as only a soldier who has seen combat, and seen firsthand the ravages it suffers upon men, possibly can"

 

So tell me again how I should feel about cheaters?

 

I obviously just ain't getting it...

 

Spoomonkey

[curiousagain 326]

JNCC, there is no sense even trying to argue the point whether or not swingers play with cheaters. Some do, most don't. Both have their reasons and are quite satisfied with it. But your post #38 is a perfect example of why most don't. Who needs the drama and who wants to harm an innocent person?

It is sort of like when you meet someone from a vanilla dating site and you realize the photo they sent you was 20 years and 40lbs ago. It doesn't mean they are not still attractive, but the fact that it screams dishonesty is an instant red flag and turn off.

 

 

There is a huge difference between someone who is on the tail end of a marriage having an affair with someone out of desparation and someone who sets out to methodically and systematically have a separate life from their spouse either in the sexual area or any others. So, JCBICOUPLE's confession is different from someone who methodically, systematically, continuously, cheats on their partner. Someone convicted of second degree murder and a serial killer are both murderers. But, that is about the only similarity.

 

And while I am on my soapbox, I have seen several post here saying to the effect that if your spouse isn't having sex with you, it's your fault and if you would just straighten up and fly right everything would be OK. That is a load of bull. Sometimes your spouse isn't having sex with you because they are too busy having it with someone else, or they are manipulative and controlling and that is one of their methods of manipulating and controlling you. Sometimes, they have hormonal, physical, or mental problems. There can be a lot of reasons for it.

 

So, if someone says to you they love their spouse but their spouse doesn't want to have sex anymore and they just need a release somewhere, they MAY be telling you the truth. But, they need to realize that most still don't want to play with them. Nothing personal, just the way most feel.

 

Everybody needs to realize that everybody has their likes and dislikes and the reasons for them is irrelevant. We can argue the validity of the reasons till the proverbial cows come home and it won't make one iota of difference.

[northindycpl 32]

J Sometimes your spouse isn't having sex with you because they are too busy having it with someone else, or they are manipulative and controlling and that is one of their methods of manipulating and controlling you. Sometimes, they have hormonal, physical, or mental problems. There can be a lot of reasons for it.

 

So, if someone says to you they love their spouse but their spouse doesn't want to have sex anymore and they just need a release somewhere, they MAY be telling you the truth.

 

 

This comment struck me.... My best friend has been having an affair for the past 15 years or so with a man. She is in an otherwise perfect marriage with her husband; they get along well, they are great parents, they have built a life together, they enjoy each other. Her husband however, suffers drastically from PE. 25 years ago when they got together it was not an issue. 20 years ago it became one, out of the blue. They then spent Thousands of dolllars on doctors, medication, therapy to 'cure' this issue and nothing cured it. Eventually, her husband became angry and resentful of her always working on his problem and the communication halted on this topic.

 

Now she got to the point that she wanted to leave him, but in her words, it was like kicking a sick dog in the street. For whatever reason, they had this problem and she felt as though they should work it out. The husband just refused. And continues to refuse sex. She then began to have an affair.

Over the past 15 years of her affair, her and her husband have still tried different things off and on, but nothing works. In fact, her husband ejaculates on her leg most of the time, and they had to pay for invitro to be able to have children.

 

I sympathize with her. In knowing my friend through this process, I know how hard it is for her and them. There is a piece missing that she desparately wants her husband to fill, but he physically can't. I believe that if all of a sudden tomorrow, he could have sex normally, she would stop having the affair and rush to him. And she holds out hope that he will someday.

 

Even though I completely understand why she is doing it, I still think it is wrong. I tell her that I think it is wrong. It is still cheating, with a capital C, although it may be justified to a degree.

[BradAndJanet 70]

I don't get it.

 

LM

For protection from the flames...make sense now?

 

-B

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

For protection from the flames...make sense now?

 

-B

Thank you Brad!

 

I can always count on you.

 

LM

[Fireman412ntee 16]

The worse thing is that those that are able to play on their own get labeled as a cheater. I have always had the option to play on my own but it is too hard to try to convince others that my wife says itis alright. I feel like I need a letter form my mother. So I choose, for the most part, to not play as a single. That is one of the down sides to this lifestyle. There will always be cheaters, both male and Female. That is human nature, sad to say.

[jcbicouple 24]

Well, Thanks for not heating the asbestos too much, but don't get me wrong; It's never "right".

I just agree with Curious again.....There's a big difference in someone on the tail end of a failing marraige getting out, and those that are repeat offenders that continually put their spouse through the pain that Spoo described so well (all the while saying, "But I love them"...Ya, whatever!).

I (we) do not and never have supported cheating. At no point did I say it was right, just that I think there are those that get out, those that make mistakes (Not every marraige fails because of a kiss. I'm NOT talking long term affair when I say mistake) and there are those that have no concience. None of them are "right" but we think much worse of those that continue to have long term affairs, and/or multiple affairs.

 

Curiousagain used a great example with the murders: A person can kill someone in a moment of passion and regret it their entire life. A serial killer will hurt as many people as he feels like as long as his own gratifications are fullfilled.

[Alura 2,775]

Fireman412ntee wrote:

 

I have always had the option to play on my own but it is too hard to try to convince others that my wife says itis alright. I feel like I need a letter form my mother.

 

I don't understand why it's so hard to convince others, Fireman. (Are you a George Strait fan?) The one time we played with a guy without his wife, she called us to ask us if it was alright.

 

Is that not a good method to convince a couple? It worked for us. For us, I don't thing a letter from your mother would help, but a phone call from your wife would.

 

Mr. Alura

[DBL D 120]

Ditto that, Alura.

 

We got all this modern technology, and nobody uses it!

 

A little chat with the other little woman is all that's needed.

 

M.D.