Some Thoughts About Swinging and Race

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Late last year, Sheryl made a major decision that will affect the rest of our swinging career. She no longer wants to swing with non-black men, so we are now seeking black and interracial couples exclusively. White couples will no longer be considered even though they comprise the majority of the swinging population. Greg finds this decision to be downright racist, but there is little he can do about it. To convince Sheryl to play with a white couple would be tantamount to forcing her to “take one for the team,” which is something that neither of us believe in. Fortunately, all of our regular playmates are interracial couples, so we don’t have to deal with the awkward situation of “dumping” any of our friends.

 

In chatting with some black gentlemen online, a number of them have offered congratulations to Greg for “converting” Sheryl to black men, but Greg doesn’t take any responsibility for this. On her own, Sheryl finally decided to stop swinging with white men because they have consistently underperformed in bed. This dates back more than a decade, when Sheryl used to swing with her previous husband, who was white. On the other hand, black men would almost always leave her satisfied. Eventually, she decided to cut her losses by cutting off white men altogether.

 

This puts Greg in a frustrating situation. Both online and at swing parties, he frequently comes across couples who seem like they would be compatible with us, but he has to pass them by merely because the husband is white. Regardless of Sheryl’s previous experiences, they are plenty of white men out there who are capable of giving Sheryl a good time, but Sheryl now refuses to take the time to find them.

 

It’s not that there is anything wrong with having a preference. It’s perfectly acceptable for Sheryl to prefer black men and to seek them out. However, it seems foolish for her to deny herself the opportunity to meet and play with some wonderful people just because of the color of their skin. In fact, Greg tends to be more sexually attracted to Hispanic and black women, but he thankfully did not allow that preference to keep him from dating and eventually marrying a white woman such as Sheryl.

 

Fortunately, this situation has not slowed down the frequency of our swinging activities. We recently discovered a small Yahoo! group which is run by a handful of black men who enjoy hosting swing parties. The parties are held at a local motel about every three weeks and generally consist of about 5-8 couples, three or four of the black men and one or two single females. It’s a perfect group for couples and single ladies who are into interracial swinging, and the extra men can insure that the women can stay busy all night long without having to wait.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

To me the way that Sheryl came to her conclusion and decision says more than the decision itself, and because of the WAY that she came to her decision, I don't see it as being a racist issue. When you have nothing but bad experiences you tend to look for the commonality, in this case all the guys she had bad experiences with were white, after finding the commonality you tend to want to avoid it, as she has chosen to do.

[Vespertine 31]

Everyone has a right to their preferences and to seek out what turns them on and to avoid what doesn't. Being selective regarding race is no different than being selective regarding sexual orientation or height/weight, etc.. I suppose.

 

My husband wouldn't want to (knowingly) be involved in a MFM or MFMF with a bi-male. I suppose people can take offense to that, and I suppose he could be missing out on a great couple too. I also am not turned on by heavy males, so I don't want to swing with them. I'm probably missing out on a few great guys who are probably great lovers too!

 

It's all personal preference. We can't be politically correct to the point where we're not enjoying ourselves anymore.

 

I get a bit peeved when I see white couples advertising for "a big black cock". I find that racist agaist black men. I think it separates them and it bugs me. I wonder what black men feel about adds like that? Greg, care to enlighten me?

 

Cock has always been cock to me...black, brown, white, etc... I like what's attatched to it. However, the majority of my experience has been with white men, so maybe my opinion isn't well-formed.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Vespertine said:

I get a bit peeved when I see white couples advertising for "a big black cock". I find that racist against black men. I think it separates them and it bugs me. I wonder what black men feel about ads like that? Greg, care to enlighten me?

 

This black man finds it to be kind of funny. You have no idea how many white couples contact us because they have this fetish for the "BBC." However, it seems that other black men (including the ones in the Yahoo! group we mentioned) actually embrace this stereotype. In fact, we personally know one black man how has made a virtual career out of being the big black cock for horny white wives. Some men, regardless of color, have no problem being objectified as long as it gets them laid.

[Vespertine 31]

Thanks for letting me know!

[harleycouple24 15]

I agree with Greg, it downright sounds racist to me. That's fine if you like black men sexually. Everybody on here has likes and dislikes. Hell, we wouldn't ever swing with a black male but you don't see us on here proclaiming it and telling things about a race like they just don't perform well.

 

I find this post by Sheryl very disturbing. We have to hear everyday about racism and how blacks are better at sports or whites don't give the blacks the respect they deserve. I think all men are created the same. No racism here, just the love of our fellow man.

 

Some people are better at sports, some are better at sex. How does black or white come into this? Are you talking about the myth that black men all have giant cocks?

 

I really love reading this board although I didn't think I would hear "I like black cock better than white cock", seems to me you should keep your mouth shut and do your thing. Whatever makes you happy, do it.

[bear_and_babe 68]

I guess I have several questions, so hear goes:

 

Why does it seem to Sheryl that black men have a better performance history then white men? Can't black men have performance issues just like white men? How is she going to feel if she approaches a black man and he says, "Sorry, I only play with black women"? Sort of a reverse racist. Now, don't get me wrong. I respect the fact that Sheryl has made a decision on who she wants to play with. That is a personal choice.

 

And I always have to laugh at women who say they want a "Big Black Dick". The reason I laugh is because one of my favorate play partners is a black man, and my white husband is larger then he is. His wife and I have talked about that and we just get a laugh that most white women think that all black men are large. To me, a dick is a dick, I don't care what color or size it is. I do care what type of person it is attached to.

[funtoplay 15]

To me, a dick is a dick, I don't care what color or size it is. I do care what type of person it is attached to.

 

All I have to say to that is AMEN!

[NewTemptations 54]

I see Sheryl's choice more as having a preference than being racist. To me she knows what she wants from this lifestyle and isnt willing to settle for less.

 

I know many couples/women that will ONLY play with women. Does this make them sexist? I know a man that only likes to play with bbw's. Does this make him prejudiced against the hwp people out there? I have met many black guys that will only play with white women, are they racist? There are those out there that will only play with others that fall within a certain age range. There are those out there that dont want to deal with smokers or drinkers. Those that will only play with bi couples and those that refuse to play with bi couples. What should we classify these people as?

 

We all have things that turn us on and/or turn us off when it comes to choosing our playmates within this lifestyle. Each person in this lifestyle makes their own choices as to what they want and how flexible they are with their own personal choices. I dont think its ever about being prejudiced in any way, just everyone seeking whatever it is that makes them the most satisfied.

 

Laura

[VegasLee 1,486]

harleycouple24 said:

hell, we wouldn't ever swing with a black male but you don't see us on here proclaiming

 

it seems to me you should keep your mouth shut and do your thing.what ever makes you happy,do it. 

 

Well, you just did proclaim it right here on these boards.

 

For a group that is supposed to be so open minded then why would you think that she does not have the RIGHT to speak her mind just as you have?

 

Telling her to keep her mouth shut? She does not have the same rights as you just because she does something that you would not do?

 

This lifestyle is supposed to be about being honest with yourself, your SO and the people in the lifestyle. I guess that only applies if the Truth follows Your rules.

 

In all the time I have been in this lifestyle and on Julie's board I have never seen such BS.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

I think it is certainly your perrogative, but yes, you are limiting the couples that you can play with by saying that you wouldn't play with white males. When we are looking at ads on the SLS, I always look at those that say white couples only, or won't play with blacks, etc and think, oh well, it's their loss. I understand preferences, but completely cutting off a group of people, to me is extreme. But, to each his own....

 

Pepper

[beaverz 18]

I guess I am a little confused on the purpose of the original post.

 

I realize everyone has their sexual preference, I just hope the Swingers Board doesn’t turn into a place where everyone feels they have to list a race they won’t swing with.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

I guess I am a little confused on the purpose of the original post.

Your confusion may come from the fact that this really isn't a solvable problem. Our purpose was just to hear what others thought about our situation. We felt it was an intriguing circumstance that was worthy of discussion on this board.

[harleycouple24 15]

Beaverz's post was what I was trying to say.

 

Vegaslee, you are right, everyone has the right to post or say anything they want but I didn't think my post was bullshit. I simply was expressing my right. I have read your post for awhile now and didn't always agree with what you had to say but I read it and went on. That's what forums are about.

[twoplayful2 16]

It is a pretty interesting thread. And for the record, we both think it's just another preference like any other. Mr TP2 finds features he likes in just about every size, shape, color. Mrs TP2 does have some types she's just not attracted to. Doesn't mean she won't talk to them, have a great time hanging out, even be friends with. Just means doesn't want to have sex with. And also for the record, that type is definitely NOT black men!

[Vespertine 31]

Our purpose was just to hear what others thought about our situation. We felt it was an intriguing circumstance that was worthy of discussion on this board.

I think this is a great topic! I, for one, am glad you posted it.

 

This is a topic that could be of interest to us all. I'm sure a lot of us have wondered how we could compose our add and list our preferences or dislikes without seeming to be racist or prejudice.

[VegasLee 1,486]

harleycouple24 said:

Vegaslee, you are right, everyone has the right to post or say anything they want but I didn't think my post was bullshit. I simply was expressing my right. I have read your post for awhile now and didn't always agree with what you had to say but I read it and went on. That's what forums are about.

 

The part that I believe is total BS is you telling her to shut her mouth and go on yet now you state this is what the forums are for.

 

Everyone has the right to say as they want here and no one has the right to tell anyone else to "shut her mouth" because of it.

 

I don't post so that all can agree with me. Hell, most these days will not agree with me but I will never tell you or anyone else to shut your mouth and not express your views on anything.

[rdc 15]

Okay, Greg and Sheryl, my husband and I have a very similar situation. We are a mixed race couple and we prefer (or are attracted to) what originally attracted us to each other. It has made finding the right choice of couple swap difficult for us. He will find a woman hot and I am absolutely not attracted to the man and/or vice versa. And sometimes, I think the woman is hot, but he can't imagine the guy with me....

 

So we do alot of talking, and watching, some partying, alot more talking. And the outcome is still fluid and everchanging, but we are trying to not just look at "looks". Honestly we've even rented some several XXX pics and watched them and discussed who we think is hot and horny and why. I think one day we will find a couple (or two) we would like to play with regularly and when we do, I think (or hope) we will have outgrown our preferences that seem to limit us now.

[CliffandKeira 15]

Everyone has a right to their own preferences (sp?), to call sheryl a racists is like calling me (keira) a heterophobe because i don't like to play with completley straight couples (refering to the women in the couple). To each their own, however there are always exceptions.

[RNDNV 16]

Well when I first read Greg and Sheryl's post, I couldn't help but think "man, that is a touchy and potentially volitile subject...this should be damned interesting." Well it has panned out, and I assume many are in the wings not jumping in with many more potential looks and opinions on this subject. Greg, no matter what, I applaude your willingness to post and say what you did.

 

Personally, I agree with you that if the initial criteria is the color of the skin, and simply and only that, then I can understand your feelings, especially for you being a member of a minority race, that you find that such criteria smacks of "reverse discrimination." Frankly it is. In public accomodations, employment and housing, any disparate treatment with that criteria as a basis is illegal. However, in swinging it certainly is not, and as others have posted it certainly is a preference that she is entitled to have and should be honored.

 

All that said, I think the more interesting issue is somewhat akin to my posting of a few days ago entitled "High Standards" wherein I discussed the dilemna of having a spouse who is a bit "choosy." I would think you are in an even tougher spot. Since you are with a white woman, you obviously might be open to partying with white women, but with your wife's exclusive limitation for black men, you are certainly stuck with limiting the number of people you can party with, and appreciably so perhaps. Frankly, that is not very fair to you, but as I have discovered, the Lifestyle is not fair for men as it is what I would describe as a "microcosm for a matriarchal society." Ie: women run the show and get to pick the action (for the most part).

 

On a last note, I have often struggled with the thought of one day it may come to pass that my wife will want to party with a "well hung black man" (yes, I know I am stereotyping, its just my stuff on this particular fantasy/worry), and how will I handle it emotionally if she really likes it which I no doubt think she might given the right circumstances and man. There is a saying "once you go black, you never go back." Well your wife seems to be some evidence of the truth of that statement. Hum????

[Spoomonkey 421]

As a white guy (very much so, since I am far too lazy to hit the tanning booth) I am not in the least bit offended by Sheryl's preference. It is certainly my loss - but if I had a dime for every woman who doesn't want to "ride the monkey train" I'd have enough to buy a diet pop or maybe a cheap bag of nuts... So, you shrug it off... It happens...

 

 

I don't think it is really racism as much as it is preference.

 

Mrs Spoomonkey, for example, generally isn't attracted to black men. I'm similarly not attracted to black women. That isn't racism - any more than me not being attracted to ice cream trucks or lacquered furniture... However, there is a woman at work, very dark skinned and hot enough to cook a steak on (well done, I might add). And there have been two black men at our club who have gotten close to Mrs Spoomonkey's "buttons".

 

In both cases, those guys have been flat out great guys who I connected with first. For some reason, if I get to laughing and talking to a single guy it gets Mrs Spoo interested a lot quicker... That'd be an interesting thread...

 

Anyway - it is a GREAT thread - and one that I hope we won't pussy-foot around about or try to PC ourselves out of a good discussion. We all have our preferences - how we come by them can be as intensely personal as the preference itself.

 

Besides - one of the HUGE benefits of the lifestyle - and particularly this board - is that we can find people that are kindred spirits and like-minds, even if we wouldn't want to sleep with them.

[beaverz 18]

Originally posted by Greg & Sheryl in response to Beaverz's Post

Your confusion may come from the fact that this really isn't a solvable problem.

 

I don’t see the problem with your situation unless your thinking it’s a racism issue. I don’t think it as anything to do with racism, it’s just her preference. I would think that all couples and individuals for that matter have some type of criteria for which they have sex with, weather it be color of skin, attractiveness, weight, age, hygiene or a thousand other reasons. In Sheryl's case it was a past performance issue with white men. I also would think that there are many other couples that have had bad experiences with a certain type of person and now refuse to play with anyone similar.

 

Originally posted by Greg & Sheryl

This puts Greg in a frustrating situation. Both online and at swing parties, he frequently comes across couples who seem like they would be compatible with us, but he has to pass them by merely because the husband is white.

 

How could they be compatible couples if the husband is white? Knowing that Sheryl only prefers black men and clearly has stated so, wouldn’t that pretty much mark all couples with a white husband off the compatibility list?

 

Originally posted by Greg & Sheryl

Fortunately, this situation has not slowed down the frequency of our swinging activities.

 

If Sheryl’s desire (to only sleep with the type of men that can satisfy her) has not slowed down the frequency of your swinging activities, how is there a problem? It seems you both have found the perfect group that’s satisfying both your needs in the swinging lifestyle.

 

I’m fairly new to all this, so please forgive my ignorance, but I don’t see a problem with your situation. Isn’t it common for most if not all swingers to limit the type of people they play with (not necessarily by race)?

[RNDNV 16]

I don’t see the problem with your situation unless your thinking it’s a racism issue. I don’t think it as anything to do with racism, it’s just her preference... In Sheryl's case it was a past performance issue with white men.

 

If Sheryl’s desire (to only sleep with the type of men that can satisfy her) has not slowed down the frequency of your swinging activities, how is there a problem?

 

I’m fairly new to all this, so please forgive my ignorance, but I don’t see a problem with your situation. Isn’t it common for most if not all swingers to limit the type of people they play with (not necessarily by race)?

 

As a continuation of my thoughts on this, I would respectfully very much disagree with beaverz on this issue. If the criteria for making the swing decision is skin color, and only skin color (regardless of Sheryl's "perceptions" of what she associates with men of her preferred skin color, which by the way, is the root of racism), then that is a racist decision, and there is no way around that one. I believe to characterize that as simply a "preference" is an attempt to convieniently dodge the racism factor. No doubt, "racism" is politically incorrect, and therefore the motivation to avoid such labeling is strong, but I would contend that attempting to characterize something that is clearly "racist" (b/c making distinctions solely on the basis of the color of a person's skin or attributes perceived to be commonly associated with said color [aka: stereotyping] is clearly a race based decision and therefore racism) as simply a "preference" is an attempt to justify the racism and is therefore perhaps an even greater evil (assuming one wishes to apply a judgment standard of right v. wrong or better v. worse to the matter) than the racism itself.

 

Last thought for Sheryl and Greg. I can't even begin to imagine what experiences one would have to have to come to the conclusion that only men with a certain skin color will get the job done, but I am fairly convinced that whatever is making it work for Sheryl in that regard lies deep within her, most likely at the subconscious level, and, at the end of the day its perfectly okay to feel that way. In otherwords, in this environs (the Lifestyle) it is okay to be racist vis-a-vis the choices you wish to make regarding who you play with.

[Vespertine 31]

If the criteria for making the swing decision is skin color, and only skin color (regardless of Sheryl's "perceptions" of what she associates with men of her preferred skin color, which by the way, is the root of racism), then that is a racist decision, and there is no way around that one.

I don't think Sheryl's being racist at all.

 

Sexual preference and racism are completely different. Sheryl is saying that she's sexually attracted to black men, and so for her.. she only wants to persue black men when she swings.

 

She's not saying that she wants to avoid white men in all social settings, such as friendship, work relationships etc.. She's not saying she dislikes white men, or wants to keep her distance from them. She just doesn't want to be intimate with them.

 

I can't even begin to imagine what experiences one would have to have to come to the conclusion that only men with a certain skin color will get the job done, but I am fairly convinced that whatever is making it work for Sheryl in that regard lies deep within her, most likely at the subconscious level, and, at the end of the day its perfectly okay to feel that way.

Why do you insinuate that Sheryl has some sort of 'deep issue' because she sexually prefers black men to white? I think it's kind of presumptuous of you to imply such a thing.

[Spoomonkey 421]

RNDNV said:

If the criteria for making the swing decision is skin color, and only skin color (regardless of Sheryl's "perceptions" of what she associates with men of her preferred skin color, which by the way, is the root of racism), then that is a racist decision, and there is no way around that one.

 

I see your point, but I think that since we live in a society that puts a lot of emphasis on race, this may be why her preference might be seen by some as racist.

 

But - I don't see anything in their posts that insinuate that she has anything against the pigment-challenged. She just prefers not to have sex with them. To me this is no difference than a woman who would choose not to sleep with a man based on his having facial hair (believe it or not, we had a friend who was quite conscious of his facial hair because it was a huge turn off for some).

 

I think we need to be wise in discerning what makes "racism" and what makes "preference." If we don't, we will be unfairly labeling folks.

[twoplayful2 16]

And don't forget that she's white. It's hard to understand how a white person can be racist against white people.

 

Nah, it's just sexual preference. It's not like she doesn't like white people, or even just white men. She just found she's interested in having sex with white men after some disappointments.

[curiousagain 326]

It's just a preference. Everybody has their turn ons and turn offs. And, as part of a couple, one's preferences/turoffs affect the other. Every couple has the same problem in one way or another. It doesn't seem to be having that large of an affect on your swing life so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

[omneesx 15]

We're wondering what made Sheryl decide that it was race that was the culprit in her lack of satisfaction. Their post mentions that they were looking for the commonality in all the subpar men, and settled on race. Is it possible that there could be some other factor contributing to the problem, other than race? Or is it that race was the most obvious?

[BradAndJanet 70]

Wow, this has been an interesting thread to read. Greg & Sheryl, have you been surprised by some of the responses, or have they been what you expected?

 

I wouldn't characterize Sheryl's decision as 'racism'. Indeed, it is a racially based preference, but she's not saying that whites are inferior, or should not have equal rights or anything of the sort. She's just saying what she wants in a sexual partner. I myself find Asian women incredibly hot, for example. I don't think that makes me a racist.

 

However, I can't help wondering if she won't be missing out on a good time with someone because he's not black. Making sweeping generalities can lead one astray, but I will admit that she has much more experience with this particular one than I do.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

beaverz said:

How could they be compatible couples if the husband is white? Knowing that Sheryl only prefers black men and clearly has stated so, wouldn’t that pretty much mark all couples with a white husband off the compatibility list?

A better way to say this would have been "otherwise compatible." In some cases, we have matched up very well with white couples with regard to age, sexual interests and vanilla interests, but race turned out to be the only deal-breaker.

 

beaverz said:

If Sheryl’s desire (to only sleep with the type of men that can satisfy her) has not slowed down the frequency of your swinging activities, how is there a problem? It seems you both have found the perfect group that’s satisfying both your needs in the swinging lifestyle. I’m fairly new to all this, so please forgive my ignorance, but I don’t see a problem with your situation. Isn’t it common for most if not all swingers to limit the type of people they play with (not necessarily by race)?

The problem is that Greg is philosophically opposed to making any decision based upon race alone.

 

beaverz said:

I don’t see the problem with your situation unless your thinking it’s a racism issue. I don’t think it as anything to do with racism, it’s just her preference. I would think that all couples and individuals for that matter have some type of criteria for which they have sex with, weather it be color of skin, attractiveness, weight, age, hygiene or a thousand other reasons. In Sheryl's case it was a past performance issue with white men. I also would think that there are many other couples that have had bad experiences with a certain type of person and now refuse to play with anyone similar.

That is probably the best argument in Sheryl's favor. Not even she was able to articulate her point of view so well.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Wow, this has been an interesting thread to read. Greg & Sheryl, have you been surprised by some of the responses, or have they been what you expected?

We have also enjoyed reading this thread, and the response has been somewhat surprising to us. Even though we have discussed (argued?) this issue at length, this thread has provided us with a number of points we had not considered. The feedback is highly appreciated!

[intuition897 2,179]

Quote

"On her own, Sheryl finally decided to stop swinging with white men because they have consistently underperformed in bed. This dates back more than a decade, when Sheryl used to swing with her previous husband, who was white. On the other hand, black men would almost always leave her satisfied. Eventually, she decided to cut her losses by cutting off white men altogether."

 

Ok, I'll admit I would find that statement to be somewhat disappointing. As in, that's really too bad that she's been so turned off of white guys by so many previous bad experiences. Part of that could be that now, if she were to find herself swinging with a white partner, she would already be expecting things to go poorly. So how else would it turn out? I'm not sure exactly how these guys 'underperformed' (size? duration? inability to perform an encore?) but I'm certain that there are plenty of white men out there who can keep up stroke for stroke with any black guy. I believe that just as black men 'tend' to have dark skin, white men 'tend' to have fair skin, there are likely other 'tendencies' due to genetics. However, I don't believe that anything is a hard and fast rule. We haven't swung (swung??) with interracial couples yet, but we're certainly open to the idea. We do have preferences, though: neither of us are generally attracted to Asian or east Indian features. I say generally because I'm sure there are exceptions out there whom we would be very attracted to. We just haven't found them yet. Mr. does prefer the look of the black or Latina physique (it's the big round juicy butt.. lol ) and I'm attracted to the contrast between my own (very) fair skin against the dark colour of deeply pigmented skin. It has nothing to do with penis size, just skin colour.

 

I guess all I wanted to say with all that rambling is that I'd hope that Sheryl wouldn't immediately rule out someone, even if she felt attracted to him, just because he wasn't black. Nothing wrong with preferences as long as it doesn't turn into being closed-minded.

[RNDNV 16]

And don't forget that she's white. It's hard to understand how a white person can be racist against white people. .... Nah, it's just sexual preference.

 

Sexual preference and racism are completely different. Sheryl is saying that she's sexually attracted to black men, and so for her.. she only wants to persue black men when she swings.

 

I suspected this thread would be an exciting one, and I for one and glad its being bantered about as good as it has.

 

Mr. R&D here. Like I said before, if the only criteria for making the distinction (and disparate treatment) is the skin color or race (or perceptions associated with the same), then its a racist based decision. I would submit that trying to ease Sheryl's feelings by calling it a "preference" is being too "Swinger PC" and not calling out as the truth what really is going on. And twoplayful2, if you think people of a particular race cannot by definition discriminate or be "racist" against their own race, then perhaps you haven't experienced it, but it sadly DOES OCCUR. Greg, my opinion is that your instincts are correct, and what smacks of racism to you is just that, racism.

 

Webster's Dictionary defines racism as follows: "the assumption that the characteristics and abilities of an individual are determined by race and that one race is biologically superior to another//a political program or social system (the Lifestyle community???) based on these assumptions."

 

In our very tolerant microcosm of a world we call "The Lifestyle" we can certainly understand the notion that we should all have the right and be allowed to draw whatever distinctions we want, and establish preferences upon those distinctions in making our sexual play decisions. However, to blindly say something that is, isn't that, in order to make ourselves or others feel better about it, is just putting our heads in the sand, and that's BS. It wasn't many years ago (and unfortunately in some small pockets in the South I understand that it still exists today) that a man like Greg (black) would be lynched for even looking at a gal like Sheryl (white) for the sole and simple reason that the skin colors were different. This would often be done by some ignorant, racist, sheet wearing assholes on the basis that they felt "justified" in such actions because it was their "preference" that black men not look or even think about their white ladies being attractive to them.

 

Does not a rose by any other name smell sweet (or in this case, something else) just the same?

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Greg & Sheryl said:

On her own, Sheryl finally decided to stop swinging with white men because they have consistently underperformed in bed. This dates back more than a decade, when Sheryl used to swing with her previous husband, who was white. On the other hand, black men would almost always leave her satisfied. Eventually, she decided to cut her losses by cutting off white men altogether.

Sheryl -

 

I am curious to know how exactly do the black men perform that you find satisfying. In contrast, how have the white men underperformed that is so unsatisfying?

 

You've not mentioned this, and I see it as a very important piece to the picture.

[Vespertine 31]

LikeMinds321 said:

Sheryl -

 

I am curious to know how exactly do the black men perform that you find satisfying. In contrast, how have the white men underperformed that is so unsatisfying?

 

You've not mentioned this, and I see it as a very important piece to the picture.

Dito Great question, LM!

 

I'm curious to know what difference Sheryl's noticed in performance between black men and white men.

[BradAndJanet 70]

OK, inferior in bed, maybe. But not inferior overall as people, or unworthy of equal rights or even 'sub-human' (as some whites termed blacks in the past). A fine point to be sure, but that's the distinction I'm making.

[ktown 15]

As a black man I find it just ignorant just as racism is. A lot of men have sex problems whether it be Premature Ejaculation, impotency or anything else and it is not because of race. I always read on these boards how people want to not only be sex partners but friends, but all this says is if your skin color is not right then we are done with you no matter how good a person you are, or how caring a lover you are.

 

I don't know about you Greg but I have heard a few times the old line, I can't date you your black and it hurts my friend, so now it is going the other way, it is wrong. Is there only a minority of people out there who judge people on their Character or has that kind of thing died out and now we are going of stereotypes. I also feel the big black cock thing is just too hard to believe, why do people believe all black men are walking around with a third leg, because I'm not and I don't know if I would want people who just wanted me because of a big dick because basically once the sex is over they would not me want around anymore.

 

I will say I have dated the rainbow and after the first attraction it came down to the quality of the people, but you have made your choice and hope it does not slip out at some party that you and your wife are nice people but your a mixed couple so your out, it will sting.

[charlottefreaks 16]

This is a good topic. I have come across alot of people who say they dont play outside their race. My question to the whole thing is, whatever happen to meeting and enjoying a great conversation and seeing where it goes from there. Everyone always saying we want friends, friendship is most important, WHAT DOES THE COLOR OF SKIN HAVE TO DO WITH THAT. I have had personal experiences where I have been with white men, black men, hispanic, etc. the BBC AINT ALWAYS TRUE. I have been with black men who could satify a mule if they had to. Saying that Harley dont take it offensive. I'm a black woman and I prefer someone thats gonna respect me and we have some kind of connection. You never know what a good person is until you look past what is on the outside.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

I am curious to know how exactly do the black men perform that you find satisfying. In contrast, how have the white men underperformed that is so unsatisfying?

With white men, the problem usually falls into one of two categories. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection at all (and then make some lame statement like, "This has never happened to me before!"). This has happened at least 60% of the time during swinging encounters with white men.

 

Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems. It's not that they do anything spectacular in bed, but it's usually a safe bet that they will be able to maintain an erection and fuck for more than 10 seconds.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Greg & Sheryl said:

With white men, the problem usually falls into one of two categories. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection at all (and then make some lame statement like, "This has never happened to me before!"). This has happened at least 60% of the time during swinging encounters with white men.

 

Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems. It's not that they do anything spectacular in bed, but it's usually a safe bet that they will be able to maintain an erection and fuck for more than 10 seconds.

Thank you for answering my questions.

 

It is unfortunate that more than half the white men you've played with have these two problems.

 

Do you think they feel threatened by Greg being black? Maybe these white men think they won't satisfy you as much as a Greg and, as a result, their thinking hinders their performance.

 

Possibly this is an issue for many white-woman-with-black-man couples.

 

You've both had enough swinging experience to notice patterns in your swing history. Since poor performance by white men is one of them, there are probably pieces to this puzzle that lead up to the final disappointing result.

 

Whatever they are, I hope you can figure it out and find resolve. Starting by eliminating white men is one way to begin.

 

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[WesternSwing 504]

I can certainly respect your preference. I don't think it is racist. It stings a little. I feel a little singed since I am now "inadequate". But I know I'm just inadequate to her, not a whole lot of other women in my past and present.

 

We have some very good friends that are an interracial couple (he's black, she's white). Her preference is black men and that is what they seek out. However, to my knowledge it is not because of any issues regarding the performance of white men, but simply that black men are more attractive to her. Just like some men are more attracted to Asian women or Hispanic women than white women.

 

My wife finds many black men attractive, but there are only a few we would consider playing with. It's because of how they've let the BBC myth go to their heads and they are just too cocky, and that turns Mrs. WS off, very quickly, regardless of color of skin. Many of the single black guys we've met at parties are just arrogant and think every white woman has never been satisfied until they've had a black man. This has not once held true with any married black man we've ever met. So that attitude must not turn on Black women, Asian women, Hispanic women, etc. either.

 

Mr. WS

[rainsfuct 15]

I've not posted to any of the threads yet, but have been lurking for some time. This one caught my eye for a couple of reasons. One, there is a distinction in this argument that has been alluded to, but I think needs to be brought out in stronger terms. Second, there are so many myths and stereotypes that are perpetuated, although not all are so obvious.

 

First, the distinction needs to be drawn between being sexually attracted to someone based on their appearance (we all do that), and determining that an entire race of people are sexually inadequate relative to another race. People have various attributes that they find sexy, and some race or another may have those attributes in general. It's hard to find fault with that. However, to judge an entire race of people as sexually inadequate is something altogether different.

 

Second, there are a number of harmful and damaging myths at play here. I used to post often to a forum that was a support group for men with large endowments (http://www.lpsg.org). It was always interesting to see those who were active on that site. Some were there because they had honest-to-god trouble with their endowment, some were size queens, and some were smallish men curious or hung up on men with large dicks. One of the most pervasive posters of the latter category was a black man. And there were many men posting to that board who were black and not endowed, and were SERIOUSLY hung up on the stereo-type. It puts alot of pressure on black men, just as it does on white men.

 

I guess my point in all of this, is that we shouldn't question her motives. She seems well intentioned and honest in her opinion and who knows what she's experienced. However, any time anyone says "I won't sleep with [insert race here] because they are sexually non-performative" does a pretty serious injustice to ALL races, not just the race in question.

 

And by the way, if memory serves, there are pics on the LPSG site...see how many of them are not black. As my ex says, dicks come in all sizes, shapes and colors, and there just isn't any rhyme or reason to it. Read the site. Men who are 6'10" have 5" dicks, men who are 5'5" have 10 inch dicks.....none of the supposed 'indicator's are really indicative of much of anything - except ignorance.

[SirCharlsO 15]

Just as an aside,

 

I recently attended a swing party and a very well-dressed and sexy black couple walked in. I was totally taken by her.

 

After some time went by, I was able to strike up a conversation with her. As a way to make conversation (and flirt a little) I told her it was a little intimidating to be flirting with a beautiful black lady because she must have a well-hung black man as her partner. (my own use of a stereotype! )

 

She laughed and laughed. She told me she is so damn tired of that myth. She said, not all black men are well-hung, and not all white men are bad lovers. She then looked me over and noticed (being Hispanic) that I wasn't in either category.

 

We had a great time talking, and flirting. I can't wait to see her at the next party.

 

I say this because I wish people would not judge their potential partners on race + track record. Because that is what seems to be happening here. I am NOT calling her a racist. But I do feel sorry that she is closing herself off (plus it appears in doing so, closing off her partner unhappily) to another slice of humanity.

 

I do NOT doubt the validity of her experience. But, who cares what color a person is when deciding whether to swing with them? Mostly, we look at whether they have the kind of body we like, plus we want to see if there is a sexual manner or mental connection.

 

It *almost* seems like this is just a puff piece to build up the stereotype that black men are well-hung and great in bed. My post is just to let ya know, a black lady has told me it "ain't necessarily so..."

 

P.S. - this is my first post, so I hope that I didn't overstep bounds!

[slolrner 15]

OK just a small but important point. Once you have decided to rule out people from one race – for what ever reason, good or bad, it is by definition racist. After all Merriam defines racist as: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

 

We all are racist at some point. My racial preference is for Anglo’s. I find blue or green eyes, a small waist, nice small bubble butt, and pale skin just about irresistible. I live in Miami and find Latin women incredibly beautiful, and soft spoken Columbian Spanish is so beautiful to the ear you just can’t stop yourself from being entranced. We have many, many Latin friends. While I have found many black women appealing to look at, I have found that my white bread background has not prepared me for their culture, I just can’t seem to bridge that divide. Does that make me racist, yes. Do I think that Colin Powell or Condi Rice would make a good president, yes. So sexually I am a racist just as Sheryl is, we both exclude persons on the basis of race, that doesn’t make either of us culturally racist.

[JnCC 24]

On her own, Sheryl finally decided to stop swinging with white men because they have consistently underperformed in bed. .. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection...Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems.

I TRIED to stay out of this, but dammit...!

 

Your conclusion is only one of several that could be drawn, although it still doesn't account for why there are so many more white people on the face of the earth than black ones, or why so many young, professional black women are listing "white/caucasion" as a preference on the vanilla dating services.

 

Apparently, Cheryl has deduced that the reason white men aren't pleasing her is because of some problem with them. I'm sure that some people (including myself) will draw an entirely different conclusion...that the problem may not be in their ability to perform sexually, but in the fact that they're not attracted to Cheryl in the first place. I know it's happened to me on more than one occasion...my dick may be stupid, but it ain't blind. If I don't find a woman attractive for whatever reason, I find it almost impossible to "perform."

 

"For whatever reason" covers a lot of territory. I can honestly say that there are far more women I find unattractive for what's going on between their ears than for their physical appearance, and racism and self-loathing are near the top of my personal list for unattractive qualities. If I detect even the slightest "whiff" of jungle-fever in a female or a couple, even my stupid dick loses any interest I had in having sex with her.

 

Since you're looking solely at race to explain why she's having problems attracting white men but not black ones, has it occured to either of you that the reason could be that white men have certain "standards" that must be met for sex to occur, while the black men you're meeting are simply less selective about who they'll fuck? Is that lame? Yea. Is that racist? Probably. But it makes about as much sense as what you're claiming...

 

Suggesting that men of any color aren't sexually attracted to you because they have some sort of "sexual problem" is a cop-out. Every time...not "sometimes" or "most times," but every single time I've met a woman who complained that some man (or men) in her life "couldn't keep up with her sexually," it's been a situation where the man was either bored to death, or the woman was "fucking out of her league," so to speak.

 

we personally know one black man how has made a virtual career out of being the big black cock for horny white wives. You have no idea how many white couples contact us because they have this fetish for the "BBC"...Some men, regardless of color, have no problem being objectified as long as it gets them laid.

Whatever it is that you're trying to say, I wish you would just say it and stop pussy-footing around with all this pseudo-observational, "Cheryl says this, Cheryl says that..." crap. All of your posts have the same 3 underlying themes; Your need to demean white males, your need to pronounce black males as "Superstuds," and your fixation on black male/white female sex. Something about white people is bothering the hell out of you, and I'd like to know what it is.

 

What IS your problem...your REAL problem...with white males? What is it that white men are, or do, that threatens your manhood so? What is it about white women that so validates you as a man, that you are fixated on having sex with them almost exclusively? Who would you be, and why would you matter, if every white person in the world suddenly ceased to exist?

 

You have some serious issues, dude...

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Greg & Sheryl said:

To convince Sheryl to play with a white couple would be tantamount to forcing her to “take one for the team,” which is something that neither of us believe in.

Another thought I had, maybe the white couples you have played with choose you as a couple because the wife was interested in experiencing a black man, and her husband "took one for the team" - or at least tried - and therefore he was not as motivated as his wife and performed poorly.

 

Taking one for the team is something swingers warn against doing, but regrettably, I think it happens quite often, especially when a husband wants to see his wife happy.

 

P.S. I want to add that my comments are not meant as a negative statement about Sheryl. They are based on my feelings that people don't always click sexually, even though they like each other. One spouse can really be hot for someone and so the other spouse says yes to playing with the couple, even though their heart isn't in it.

[EmpyreanPleasur 18]

I tried to read all the posts but admittedly, I skimmed a few, so forgive me if I'm repetitive!

 

By definition, I guess this is racism, but racism is frequently taken as an ugly term associated with hatred, cruelty, ignorance and physical and emotional injury. Thus we all tend to cringe at the thought of it.

 

However, there is a very fine line between prejudice and preference. My husband and I are very proud of how we always, honestly, can say "never say never'...that doesn't mean we haven't drawn some lines based on some prejudices. He is not interested in a bi-male experience. I am not interested in non-feminine bisexual females. He feels black women are extremely erotic and energetic by nature. I feel young men are impatient and too inexperienced to be any good for me (I take a long time to cum). He loves tall women, and is turned off by women much shorter than he is. I feel awkward with women shorter than myself. We both are attracted to asian women...the list goes on. You get my point.

 

So...we have certain traits we look for, both consciously and unconsciously at times. Does that mean we are racist/prejudiced? Yes...by definition we are. I think the real question that is at the base of everyone's post is does she feel they just don't fit HER needs or that they are sexually inferior period and also not worthy of respect as a human being. I'm not expecting an answer, Im just saying that would be MY only complaint in this situation.

 

Lets compare my feelings about non-feminine bisexual women...butch types. I have had a couple of experiences and while I enjoy an aggressive partner, my experiences THUS far have been with women who want to act more like men, yet feel they are superior to men, rather than just be assertive. Now, I meet this type of woman and am instantly turned off! Am I prejudiced? Yes. However, I have my preferences based on my experiences and just like the things I PREFER I have developed certain things I am turned off by.

 

Does any of that make sense?

[Pepper & Drew 384]

I TRIED to stay out of this, but dammit...!

 

Since you're looking solely at race to explain why she's having problems attracting white men but not black ones, has it occured to either of you that the reason could be that white men have certain "standards" that must be met for sex to occur, while the black men you're meeting are simply less selective about who they'll fuck? Is that lame? Yea. Is that racist? Probably. But it makes about as much sense as what you're claiming...

 

Whatever it is that you're trying to say, I wish you would just say it and stop pussy-footing around with all this pseudo-observational, "Cheryl says this, Cheryl says that..." crap. All of your posts have the same 3 underlying themes; Your need to demean white males, your need to pronounce black males as "Superstuds," and your fixation on black male/white female sex. Something about white people is bothering the hell out of you, and I'd like to know what it is.

 

What IS your problem...your REAL problem...with white males? What is it that white men are, or do, that threatens your manhood so? What is it about white women that so validates you as a man, that you are fixated on having sex with them almost exclusively? Who would you be, and why would you matter, if every white person in the world suddenly ceased to exist?

 

You have some serious issues, dude...

 

Geez....bitter much? I really don't see what Greg's alleged issues (since this was an assumption) has to do with Cheryl not wanting to have sex with white men. SHE made the decision, SHE is the one who made the comments, and from Greg's point of view, it has made it more difficult to hook up with couples. I think Greg was stating Cheryl's position, not something he necessarily believed himself. The comments about threatened manhood left me completely puzzled.....I think JnCC's post shows that someone has some serious issues, but I don't think it's Greg....

 

As far as whether it's racist or not, I think it is. Cheryl's using race as a way to chose or not chose sex partners. Do I think Cheryl should burn at the stake? No, I don't. It's completely her perrogative. When we see ads that say white couples only, I don't get upet, I just think it's their loss and move on. There are some that say it's just preference, just like preferring redheads, but do you ONLY play with redheads, and refuse to play with anyone but redheads? I think in Greg and Cheryl's case, it's much deeper. I think preference is when you are drawn to a certain thing, but to say that you won't play with a certain person, it goes past "preference" and you move to being exclusionary. But, hell, I say more power to you. The beauty of the lifestyle is that you can make your own rules.

 

Oh, and you can be racist against your own race. There have been numerous studies about the subject....the one that sticks out in my mind is in the late 70's, they took young black children and offered them white dolls or black dolls. Every child chose the white doll because they thought it was better. It's not so far-fetched to believe that whites may have similiar issues.

 

Pepper

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

We when initially started this thread, we were afraid that it might spiral out of control. After all, race is a hot-button issue that many people cannot discuss rationally. However, with one notable exception, everyone has posted measured, thoughtful responses. We thank you for your feedback.

 

LikeMinds321 said:

Do you think they feel threatened by Greg being black? Maybe these white men think they won't satisfy you as much as a Greg and, as a result, their thinking hinders their performance.

This doesn’t appear to be the case. This pattern actually dates back to when Sheryl used to swing with her previous husband, who happened to be white.

 

SirCharlsO said:

I wish people would not judge their potential partners on race + track record. I am NOT calling her a racist. But I do feel sorry that she is closing herself off (plus it appears in doing so, closing off her partner unhappily) to another slice of humanity.

Very well-put.

 

LikeMinds321 said:

Another thought I had, maybe the white couples you have played with choose you as a couple because the wife was interested in experiencing a black man, and her husband "took one for the team" - or at least tried - and therefore he was not as motivated as his wife and performed poorly.

We suspect this has happened on at least a couple of occasions. Before eliminating white couples altogether, we tried to screen white couples carefully to make sure they weren’t motivated purely by a desire for the wife to have interracial sex.

 

Pepper & Drew said:

Geez....bitter much? I really don't see what Greg's alleged issues (since this was an assumption) has to do with Sheryl not wanting to have sex with white men. SHE made the decision, SHE is the one who made the comments, and from Greg's point of view, it has made it more difficult to hook up with couples. I think Greg was stating Sheryl's position, not something he necessarily believed himself. The comments about threatened manhood left me completely puzzled.....I think JnCC's post shows that someone has some serious issues, but I don't think it's Greg....

Thank you for eliminating our need to respond to his post.

[Mrs Spoomonkey 118]

Greg & Sheryl said:

Thank you for eliminating our need to respond to his post.

 

You have my respect (for what that's worth )