Our first swaps - Unresponsive partners - HELP!

[BloomoCoupleFun 15]

We have well fallen off what hubby calls 'Mount Newbie' and have now had two full swaps in as many weeks. But in doing so we've confronted a problem we're not sure what to do about. One that is briusing my man unfairly.

 

Both swaps were preceeded by vanilla meets, flirting, touching, etc. And this after exhaustive chats, emails and pic swaps. So all partners had spoken, seen each other, and expressed their attraction. In each case my guy had extensive chats with the other female and there was tangibly mutual attraction between them and he. Or at least they said so, and we believed them.

 

Yet in both swaps the female of the other couple was completely unresponsive. Like staring at the ceiling, not making eye contact, and not showing any postive or negative response to the oral, penetration, etc that was going on. Both would kiss and "make out" with great motivation before and during the play. He says both were decidedly 'wet' and receptive -- but about as boring and inactive as you can get. I know because I watched them. Even when he would shift for deeper penetration in the missionary position, the women would just lie there with eyes closed or staring off into space. Awk!

 

This has left our male somewhat ego damaged. Nothing seemed to work for him. His oral technique got zero response. The women would not barely touch him without being asked, and no postions were changed during sex without him specificially asking the female. I heard him say stuff like "is doggy style ok?" and "would you like to be on top?" At all times the females agreed and appeared happy -- still giving him the impression all was OK and proceeding normally -- at least to them. Unsure what was going on, he stopped for "are you alright?" and "are you sure you are ok?" solicitations more than was needed. During the play he lost his erection once or twice just from sheer lack of interest from them. Each time it only took the female touching him to get the blood flowing again immediately -- but each time he had to specifically ask to be touched. And this happened consistently over 4+ hours of play in each session.

 

To make it almost worse -- after the sessions both women reported back their great satisfaction with the play and indicated interest in meeting again for a re-match!! BOTH said he was a wonderful lover and how pleased and satisfied they were!!!

 

Now he feels like a "lousy lover" (he's NOT!) or that he is unattractive (he's NOT!). Where he would normally climax 3-4 times in a 3-4 hour session, with these two he was challenged to provide just one climax for each. The experiences have left him hesitant about trying again. And although I did not have that good a time in the first session (NO means NO guys!! - not try it again!!) the second session was wonderful for me. Had my first effortless orgasm from oral within the first 30 minutes, and the same pace was kept almost the whole night -- for me. But while that is happening for me, he is struggling to please a non-responsive woman.

 

You name it - he tried it. Being gentler, being rougher, being directive, being passive, taking breaks, tender touches -- the poor guy worked his ass off with an increasing worried and hurt look on his face. When the second one was over and the couple had left, I know I saw tears in his eyes (he says no) at one point. I could tell he was feeling rejected, feeling very unattractive. He is a hell of a sensitive person and confused by it all, and I don't blame him. He deserves better. He was very attracted to each of the women, maybe that made it worse?

 

What gives? Have we just fluked into 2 bad lovers or are we seeing symptoms of "wife manipulation" from our partners? I say that if it happens again all play stops and we hit the door. To me it means that someone is/was simply not being honest. Is that wrong?

 

Most important -- what should we do to ensure this does not happen again next time? He says if we push the issue during negotiations it will sound like he's asking for a "mercy fuck", and that spirals him downward again. His ego is all mush right now -- HOW DO I HELP HIM GET IT BACK?

 

Are we alone in this situation?

 

B

[Nymph an' Satyr 22]

The times where we have experienced the disinterested lover were cases where we believe that the wife was doing it to make the husband happy. At least that's what we think was going on. And definitely an erection killer...

[twoplayful2 16]

Asking too many questions might factor into the problem a little bit. 4-hour sessions might be part of it (maybe we're just lightweights though lol). Could be true that the other guy is pushing things, not both of them together. It definitely looks like there just isn't any real compatibility though, whatever the reason. In looking back on it when we started in the lifestyle I think the first few women I was with weren't all that responsive or interesting either. And my wife wasn't too interested in the guys she was with, for that matter, though she acted out the part okay. But we just moved on and moved on. There are tons of couples out there with different styles, preferences, etc, and I think more are not going to be a match than are. Even if those two women weren't interested in your guy, it only means that they werent compatible sexually. And if they weren't interested, I think the fact that they continued (and even want to get together again) even though they did little but stare at the ceiling doesn't say much for them or their skills.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

It could be that these two women are used to having sex with their husbands in a very passive and unresponsive way. This would tell me that their behavior had nothing to do with how Mr B performed.

 

I had some of these same concerns with my first male partner. He wasn't verbal, didn't even make a sound when he orgasmed. I was concerned he wasn't pleased with me. Yet, afterwards, he said he had a great time and was eager to see me again.

 

We liked this couple so much that we decided it was best to tell him about the things that I would like him to do during sex that would give me greater pleasure. He has since been more vocal and tells me what's on his mind, which turns me on all the more. I, in turn, try to fnd out what I can do that will make him happiest. We learned that we each had a different style in bed but that we could make some changes for each other that has made our play better. We continue to play with them on a regular basis.

 

On the other hand, as has been suggested, the women may be going along just to please their husbands. In this case, I'd discontinue playing.

 

Mrs B - Was there anything about how the husbands behaved with you that would lead you to think they are used to wives who just lay there? In reveiw, you might see some signs there.

 

If you really like these people, and would want them as friends even if you didn't have sex, then it may be worth the time to open up and talk with them about techniques that can enhance your play. If you don't feel they would handle your honesty, I'd say move on and look for more compatible playmates.

 

Mr B sounds like a great lover! Make sure you tell him I said so.

 

LM

[Vespertine 31]

Mr B sounds like a great lover! Make sure you tell him I said so.

Dito

 

I was thinking the same thing!

[Vantabulous 15]

Is it possible, unlikely as it seems, that you ran into two ladies, back-to-back, who were afraid to be very demonstrative in bed for fear of offending their husbands? Perhaps even afraid to let themselves express the pleasure they felt during the encounter that they expressed afterward?

 

If you absolutely, positively promise to take this in the proper light, I would agree whole-heartedly with LM. Mr. B went "above and beyond" and deserved better than to walk away feeling "insufficient".

 

(I'm keeping this post away from Mrs. Van. If she finds out that Mr. B will go to those lengths to please a woman, it could jeopardize our "vanilla" status! )

 

Van

[graygo98 148]

 

To make it almost worse -- after the sessions both women reported back their great satisfaction with the play and indicated interest in meeting again for a re-match!! BOTH said he was a wonderful lover and how pleased and satisfied they were!!!

 

B

 

I think that there is just a lot of bad sex happening out there. Most people don't know its supposed to be fun, or how to make it so.

 

The two women that you met probably just don't know any better. But they can learn. Sounds like they were fortunate to run into you guys, Mr. B does sound like a "wonderful lover." Might just be their first step on the road to learning just how amazing a gift our bodies really are and how great sex can be.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Is it possible, unlikely as it seems, that you ran into two ladies, back-to-back, who were afraid to be very demonstrative in bed for fear of offending their husbands?

This is such a great point!

 

I was concerned about my pleasurable response to another man, and whether it would hurt Mr LM's feelings if I was screaming in delight from what another man was doing to me!

 

I nearly had forgotten that I worried about this, we have long since overcome that threat to our play, but it is a real concern for many people starting out.

 

LM

[intuition897 2,179]

I particularly agree with Vantabulous and LikeMinds. There's no such thing as the perfect couple; we all have our demons to deal with and it shows when you get such an intimate glimpse into the private lives of others. I wondered myself if maybe these women were afraid of 'cutting loose' their inhibitions. Maybe they were somehow intimidated? I understand that he is a very giving lover, but I know that I tend to be better at giving than receiving myself, and maybe these women (like myself) don't know exactly what to do when they're in the spotlight so to speak. Deer in the headlights effect. Women get stagefright too; it's just a little less obvious. I liked the suggestion to communicate with these play partners and let them know that the Mr. would really appreciate some feedback so he knows how he's doing.

 

Now when it comes to finding future play partners, I'd suggest searching specifically for 'spirited' or 'passionate' partners that really love giving 100% in the bedroom. In your ads, specify that you're looking for energetic couple(s) that are very verbal or responsive. Some people are just more reserved than others! Could be that you coincidentally ran into two such women one after the other.

 

B, make sure you let Mr. know that I, too, think he sounds like a terrific lover. He just needs to be himself with these women, and be honest and fair to himself with what he needs to make the experience enjoyable. It sounds like he's going WAY out of his way to make sure they're having a good time; the least they could do is reciprocate.

[TNT 1,155]

There are soooo many reasons why a woman would not be responsive, ranging from not knowing any better, to being afraid of letting her husband know how much she is enjoying herself, to just not being a very verbal lover.

 

We have both experienced people who were not as vocal or energetic as we are, especially with each other . However, even in those situations we have always tried to let the person we were with know that we thought they were doing a good job, by doing so it seemed to bring them out of their shell a little and they started responding in a way we were accustomed to.

 

It seems like Mr. B did everything he possibly could and there is no need for him to be beating himself up over this. All anyone can do is ask what can I do to make it a more pleasurable experience for you...it's up to the other person to answer.

[BloomoCoupleFun 15]

Mr B here, red faced and all sheepish-like from the kindness shown by folks on this board. Mrs B is sweet in intention to my embarassment sometimes. We read through all the answers together and learned a lot we had not considered before. LM shocked us both the idea of thinking about signs from the other guys behavior and seeing that cool wiggling Vespertine pic proved it further. There were not any signs but better yet was the idea of simply expressing the problem to them. Then all the added twists in responses and very nice flattery, thank you all very much for your opinions. And we thought that Van might have pointed to a good logic.

 

I had a long chat with the other female tonight and think that the sage GreyGo was closest. But it got worse after I explained my problems. Until I did she thought we had a wonderful time and that everything was just great and saw no problems at all until I said there were. Then she got mad, then she got hurt. It did not go entirely too well and was a bit like sticking your willy in a light socket. So on one hand I feel better from hearing all these flattering things said about me but worse for peeing on her parade and hurting her feelings. She said she came and it must not have been noticed and she was right and all I could think was wanting to ask when it was. I didn't and felt cruel for thinking it. Never seen such a passive lack of response but now think that was the pinnacle of passion for her. Thank God for Mrs B who never leaves a doubt.

 

This is just one damned weird situation to be in. Hurting other peoples feelings is not a good thing to do so now I wonder if I should have not said a word to her and feigned pleasure over it all.

 

Mr B.

[twoplayful2 16]

I've heard people ask "did you come?" right after the fact, while the couples were winding it all down. Sometimes it's just not obvious and I think the question mainly comes off as simple concern that the other had a good time also. But it does seem that it could go the wrong way (as apparently happened with you) so I've kind of avoided the question myself when I was in doubt. I definitely wouldn't continue with it beyond the question right after the fact though, but maybe that's just how I am. It seems like over-talking this stuff isn't a great thing, especially for me Without some sort of feedback while you're going at it, even just body language would be good, how much can you do? But if it's me, I chaulk it up to incompatibility and move on. It's not my place to get her to change, and I'm not feeling too comfortable about having sex with her like it is. This doesn't really help with your current problem at all though so I'd just say live and learn. And good luck with that

[graygo98 148]

It seems like over-talking this stuff isn't a great thing, especially for me Without some sort of feedback while you're going at it, even just body language would be good, how much can you do?

 

 

... over-thinking and agonizing over every detail isn't a great thing, either. Your responsiblity is to yourself and your SO. Making sure that you both have the best time imaginable is Job 1.

 

It's the other person's responsiblity to let you know, verbally or, even better, non-verbally, what floats their boat. Of course we all try to please our partners and get a real charge out of it when we do. But, if they don't seem to have enjoyed themselves , don't beat yourself up. Especially if they didn't act to help themselves.

[johnintx1 15]

This is why we want to only do 3ways,so one of us dosent feel left out,or end up with the short end of the stick,...so to speak.

With a 3way it seems the we have one less person to worry about getting mad or jealouis.

We can control what we do,but cant control what others do or dont do.

We also dont have to wonder what happened in the other room. We are both there sharing the same thing at the same time.

[midnight hour 16]

I tend to agree with either the woman were scared their husbands would know they were having a great time, or are not very verbal at all. Me now I am a verbal woman....I have been accused of letting the neighbors know so even if I am not as verbal as when I am with Mr. Midnight they at least know I am there...and alive...

Kudos to your husband for trying so hard...it must have been mentally tiring more then anything...

 

midnight hour

[confunktion 20]

Mr. B's conversation with the limp noodle...er, woman brings a question to mind: If you experience an unresponsive partner in the bedroom during playtime, do you bring it up to them? If so, how do you do it and what do you say? If not, why not?

 

Mr. Funk

Not in the mood for pasta anytime soon.

[sxsurfers 15]

i see one more option that wasn't mentioned, that would have nothing to do with your hubby's performance....the other lady could have been paying more attention to what her hubby was doing with you... now that could be a jealiousy issue with her, or watching him with another women really turns her on....i think that the first time with a new cpl is not a good indicator ..... if you genuinely like the the other cpl or cpls as friends and as people... then you should not let it bother you...people tend to open up and be more them selves the better you get to know them...and everyone feels more comfortable... just my 2 cents, for what its worth lol

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Were these couples new to swinging? I have a really hard time believing that she came and showed no signs of it. And don't feel bad about peeing on her parade, you may have just saved future partners from the same boredom you experienced.

 

I would not have a problem with you bringing this up to potential dates in the future. You can express it simply in your ads by including that you enjoy "expressive, vocal partners not passive ones", and if someone asks just tell them you've encountered a couple of cold fish and don't care to go there again.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Mr. B's conversation with the limp noodle...er, woman brings a question to mind: If you experience an unresponsive partner in the bedroom during playtime, do you bring it up to them? If so, how do you do it and what do you say? If not, why not?

 

Mr. Funk

Not in the mood for pasta anytime soon.

 

 

I would have suggested that the wife bring it up to her, "hey I noticed you weren't very responsive with my husband, he's so used to my 'ride em cowboy' in the bedroom that he really didnt' know what to do...." and see what she says. I do think that having the guy bring it up would make her feel much worse.

 

I think the best thing you can do is confront it head on, hell you are already having a bad time may as well interupt it to find out why. If your wife is on the other side of the bed going at it the way you like to see a woman go, then stop things and whisper to the one you are trying to have sex with "wow watch her go, I just love the way she......"

[EmpyreanPleasur 18]

I think everyone here has hit upon so many possible reasons that ONE of them is probably correct. The problem is you may not ever really know WHICH one.

 

The answer is to not give up. Yes, it was a freak twist of fate, to have two such bad incidents in a row and on your first two, but I find it difficult to believe, based on everything I read that Mr.B is a poor or insensitive lover.

 

Put it behind you and move on. We all have experiences that we learn from. Like Julie's suggestion, I tend to want to rewrite my profile ever time a less than desirable situation comes up..."OK...let's add THAT to my list!"

 

What's most impressive is that you two are working your way together through this problem. This is an obvious indication of a couple who would be very successful and happy in the lifestyle, so don't give up!

[semntj 15]

I think you need to be more honest in your meetings! tell the woman up front. "if I have to check for a pulse, Im taking over my wife, and we will show you how it is done"!

 

Mr.B you sound awsome

[northindycpl 32]

This was an interesting post that Mr. Indy and I can relate to. Not being very experienced (me) with others outside of our marriage, I thought all women were like me. Until we started to swing. We have met very few women (and some men) that are responsive.

 

It sounds like you are a good lover. I know Mr. Indy is the best I have ever met. It isn't your technique it is theirs.

 

I think that swinging is about the variety and the differences that each person has. Some people are quiet and some aren't. We play with a couple that is really quiet and she is very unresponsive and regimented. But the more they play with us, the more they learn from us and the better it is getting. We liked them and saw possibilities, so we decided to cultivate the relationship. It is what we wanted to do.

 

It isn't fun to hurt someones feelings, and coming close to someones sexual ego is not a good idea, IMHO. If you like this couple and want to continue, then show them your differences. If you aren't interested any longer then keep your eyes open for others, and politely decline their invitations out.

 

The question is, do you want to see them or don't you. You have enough information about them to make a decision. (before the phone call took place)

[halegamer2 15]

Hi all, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth. My husband and I recently had our first swing experience, and I , to my utter horror, found it near impossible to get into the scene. The couple we were with had been in the lifestyle a few years, were incredibly patient, and attractive to both of us. We had met on one occasion before "the night", and had chatted by phone and also online. My husband and my greatest fear was that he might experience the jelousy that can sometimes happen, and all were aware this was the case. We oppted for separate room, although open door between us, to help ease his concerns. You can somewhat guess my surprise when I was so nervous, I had trouble getting undressed! Now, I wasn't forced, coerced or anything like that, I did want this to happen, but I feel like I gave a rather lackluster performance. I have said as much to everyone involved, they seem to all think I am ok, just was nervous.

I guess all I want to add to your thread is maybe just nervousness was the case? I know that we have been talking with the couple we were with, and planning a future meeting. All think it will be even better, and I still seem to be the only one who felt inadequate. I guess take what I say, use whjat you can, and I'll give more advice when I have more experience!

[Lovethenights 35]

....the other lady could have been paying more attention to what her hubby was doing with you... now that could be a jealiousy issue with her, or watching him with another women really turns her on....

 

SxSurfers may have hit close to home... One time, I became so entranced watching my wife riding the rod of the other husband, I was likely a less than fabulous partner. When I realized his wife might be getting annoyed or upset with my apparent inattention to her, I hastily offered her my apologies and resumed my attentions to her. After perhaps sensing something, she pulled my face up from between her legs and asked, very erotically, "It turns you to to watch her getting it, doesn't it?" I mutely nodded my head as she moved me to where I had a perfect view of my wife with the other woman's husband inside of her while his wife focused her awesome talents on my manhood. Needless to say, being allowed to watch my wife so pleasured and getting touched so expertly was incredible. After shattering orgasms by both of us, my wife and I made it our mission to return the same intense pleasure to them. It could have gone the other way without sensitivity, thoughtfulness, and a willingness to be flexible... The attitudes of all four of us helped make this potential disaster super. Keep going out, enjoying the fun and the variety of human experiences the lifestyle can afford you both.

[TheSwingerSet 205]

I do believe that this is so common in the lifestyle that we should add a new rule to everyones playbooK:

 

Da Rulz:

 

1) no means no

2) safe sane consentual

3) scream like a banshie

 

K

[sereneiders 263]

People reponds in many ways, some are more expressive than others. It's pointless to try to figure out what happend to those women whithout asking them, and if you ask them and they say "it was great", why not to believe in their words?

 

Having this answer from them, and if the four of you were togheter, it could be important to know if they were new at this as well. A spouse may be affraid of being too responsive with others in front of the partner as an overprotective measure, even when enjoying the game. I mean, we can theorize bad thngs or good things, and it is a matter of taste which explanation seems to work better. What we're chosing is the grounds to feel ourselves happy or unhappy about what happend.

 

In any case, I believe there's something wrong from the scratch. Your husband played 4 hours with an unresponsible playmate, while feeling bad about it? How so? Why?

 

It happened to me to meet an unresponsible playmate. I just stop playing! There's no obligation to go on doing something umpleasant. This may happen again, so next time you face the same situation, call it off and move on.

[Cpl2share 147]

Okay, Devils advocate jumpin in here: Do they have kids? The Mrs. has gotten used to keeping quite after 17 years. It started when we were playing in her parents house while everyone was home. Parents bustin ya for gettin some does not do much for gettin off. After we had kids the concern was first waking them up, and then "grossing them out." Due to that she has become very quiet with only one or two small groans when she comes. Usually they can not even be heard due to other wet sounds coming from elsewhere. I am also very quiet for the same reasons. Doesn't mean that we don't enjoy it, or get off. Also keep in mind that whena womans legs are squeezing your ears you can not hear her moans and if you are in mid stroke when she cums, it is often hard to tell. The Mrs. likes to "work it" inside, which feels just like she is coming.

[flkeyscouple 21]

The Mrs. has gotten used to keeping quite after 17 years. It started when we were playing in her parents house while everyone was home. Parents bustin ya for gettin some does not do much for gettin off. After we had kids the concern was first waking them up, and then "grossing them out." Due to that she has become very quiet with only one or two small groans when she comes.

I'm very quiet too - I've never thought about the fact that it might have a basis in not waking the kids!! I'll have to think about that one. But I really 'get into a zone' and while there, I cannot talk! It's like it's physically impossible! I do groan and moan, but nothing like some others we've been with.

 

I do have to say that with Roger I can talk - not often but sometimes I'll actually tell a story (fantasy), but NORMALLY I am just as quiet with him as I am with playmates.

 

It's not that I'm not having fun!! And I am working on it. I am TRYING to remember to say something - but normally I don't remember - I'm in a zone!! facelick

 

Sarah

[troublextwo 15]

We have had this experience also. I also believe that it may be due to insecurities within the other couples relationship. The couple that we encountered this problem with the male was the dominating force and she was more of a submissive. She acted like she needed his approval for every little touch, every little action or sound. Whatever you do just don't overthink it or it may come back to haunt you the next time. We have just quit trying to overthink some of the stranger situations and just put it behind us and move on.

[RW1F 15]

Warning Thread HighJack!

 

If I may be so bold to talk for the men on this forum........

 

Ladies, we want to know when you are having a good time. You don't have to scream and climb the walls when you are having a good time (although that's rarely frowned on). A simple "that feels good" or "yea, just like that" is usually sufficient. Men look at women as complicated creatures for good reason. It's because you are. What makes one woman reach the Big O in a couple of minutes may not ever work for the next.

 

Please, Please, Please let us know verbally or otherwise (in a very obvious manner since sometimes we aint so smart) if you like what we are doing.

[Cpl2share 147]

RW1F: You hit it right on the head (excuse the pun). I know what buttons (okay, just one) to push for the Mrs. If I don't after 17 years, I have no business trying to play with someone else! But that is her, not someone I just met, or at least have never been sexual with before. I do not need the Mrs. to tell me when I am doing what she likes, but with other women I need some guidance, cuz I am just a dumb guy who knows what I like.

[personal416 71]

We've come across a few situations like that and have coined a phrase "flat-backers". While they usually profess to having a good time, we both like more vocal interaction and have chosen to move on because the lack of feedback takes the joy out of it for us. Not to sound too harsh, but we each have our preferences we look for in partners we spend a 2nd time with.