My husband played after I fell asleep

[adventureUS 15]

Not sure how to start this post as I have so many things going thru my mind, so I'll try to keep this as simple as possible...

 

I'll start by saying that a few months ago we met another couple and have gotten together a few times over the past few months...sometimes to play and sometimes just to hang out.

 

"She" is very chatty on the phone and I'am not! My hubby has never been much of a phone person..until "her". I've mentioned to him a few times over the past few months that I find it strange he can sit and talk with her on the phone for so long....(we are talking upto 4 hours at a time) Some "red flags" have been going up..but he's assured me that she's just so chatty he cant get off the phone.

 

Anyway...her hubby was away last weekend on a camping trip (which he does quite often) so the previous weekend it was brought up between the four of us if she could play without her hubby. Her hubby had no problem whatsoever with this.

 

So, this past saturday night, she came over. The evening went extremely well..the three of us had a blast!

 

Until....here it is..4:30 in the morning..we are all beat (so I think) and we are all three laying in the bed (her in the middle) she was tickling my back with her finger nails and my husband is softly caressing her back, side and ass! I made a comment about the fact that he was stroking her....well it went un-noticed! I was overly tired as I had been sick with the flu the week prior and was still recovering and exausted. I made a comment that the two "horn dogs" would probably fuck after I fell asleep..there was no mention that we werent infact going to sleep. I was kidding....and I passed out. Seriously..it was 4:30 int the morning and we were all being silly....I never dreamed...

 

Well, when I awoke the following morning.....I find out that the rubbing/caressing he was doing to "her" led to other things. They were spooning as we typically do and caressing her as he normally does me. They had sex in the bed next to me as I slept! I asked him how this happened and he pretty much recited a reinactment of our typical Love making session...start to finish. I was kidding for cryin out loud...it was 4:30 in the morning!!!!

 

He swears he has no feelings for her...and im just sick to my stomach. The argument is that my flirty remarks gave them the go-ahead. Im sorry...why was he caressing/snuggling her...talking to her on the phone for so many hours...and reinacting a love making session...is there no intimacy that is sacred for just me???

 

I know your all going to say that Im not cut out for this and that we are lacking communication....Im not looking for that from you..I just want your take on the situation..thank you

 

 

be easy on me please

[biblonde 22]

All I can say is WOW...I think he and her crossed the line!!! I dont see this as an inocent act. They talk for hours on the phone??? that is a major no no! Dont get me wrong I dont care that hubby talks on the phone with women...but hours...NO WAY! He can chatt online for that long since if I am curious about what was said I can read it. Having sex while you sleep next to them...BAD! That is total lack of respect...truthfully you should have told her to leave or change places with you but you felt you could trust them. I know that things can happen that you dont exspect but to leave you totally out of it? I say you and him sit down and have a total heart to heart talk. Let him know you feel betrayed. Maybe he did mistake your remarks as an okay to do what he wants. Let him know what he is allowed and not allowed to do when you are with playmates so it doesnt happen again. I think you both need to take some time to work through the hurt feelings and then move on. but let him know how this makes you feel, and what you want for the future with these two. Remember ...you have the right to say no at any time or even stop seeing someone if you arent comfy. Your marrage comes first and formost! I really wish you the very best with this.

[Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty]

If I were in that situation, I can honestly say that I would be raging pissed

 

I would never see that couple(or one half of it) again. I would tell her why she is no longer welcome in our home & kick her ass to the curb. That was terribly disrespectful on both her part, as well as your husband. I would sit his horny little ass down & explain exactly how he stepped out of line just in case he played stupid.

 

If he's sorry and agrees to let this couple RIP, I would be willing to try again with A DIFFERENT couple-as long as the rules are clear.

 

The fact that this bothered you makes it valid. Talk to him & find out what in God's name he was thinking that made it ok in his mind. If he still doesn't get it-perhaps y'all should take a break.

[adventureUS 15]

thank you both so much...my feelings have been validated.

 

I have had the heart to hear with my husband over that past few days and he has swore his love for me. He swears he loves me more than anything....

 

....but even tho we have one of the strongest marriages I have ever seen...this has seriously made me question..I have never felt so insecure in my entire life

 

I totally agree that we will NEVER see that couple again and I doubt we will swing anywhere in the near future. Shit...we haven't even spoken much since the "episode" except fighting ..and he would prefer to spend the night at work tonight. I havent' been sleeping and sleeping in our bed just makes me sick ...this one episode is ruining my life.

 

I feel like no matter how much I tell him how terribly im hurting because of this..im the one thats the asshole for giving mixed signals. I dont' know...after 8 years of marriage and 5 years of swinging I thought we had all our "ducks in a row".....and thats not the case

 

our marriage is suffering..our communication is suffering...I feel dead inside

 

thank you all for the feedback

[Vespertine 31]

If I were in that situation, I can honestly say that I would be raging pissed

 

I would never see that couple(or one half of it) again. I would tell her why she is no longer welcome in our home & kick her ass to the curb. That was terribly disrespectful on both her part, as well as your husband. I would sit his horny little ass down & explain exactly how he stepped out of line just in case he played stupid.

 

If he's sorry and agrees to let this couple RIP, I would be willing to try again with A DIFFERENT couple-as long as the rules are clear.

 

The fact that this bothered you makes it valid. Talk to him & find out what in God's name he was thinking that made it ok in his mind. If he still doesn't get it-perhaps y'all should take a break.

Dito I agree 100%!

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I've mentioned to him a few times over the past few months that I find it strange he can sit and talk with her on the phone for so long....(we are talking upto 4 hours at a time) Some "red flags" have been going up..but he's assured me that she's just so chatty he cant get off the phone.

After reading your post, I can see where you would be upset with your husband. But I can also see where you could be upset with yourself.

 

You saw the "red flags" and I think you may be most upset because you didn't do more early on to stop the long conversations your husband was having with this woman. Yes, he should have known better than to get involved in long conversations. Yes, he could have brought the conversations to a close earlier, he's not incapable of this, he chose to continue with her.

 

 

 

I made a comment that the two "horn dogs" would probably fuck after I fell asleep..there was no mention that we werent infact going to sleep. I was kidding....and I passed out.

 

...The argument is that my flirty remarks gave them the go-ahead.

You gave them the OK to play while you were asleep. Even if they knew you were kidding, your statement was their excuse to play.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself, or your husband, you've both learned something through this.

 

 

 

I know your all going to say that Im not cut out for this and that we are lacking communication....Im not looking for that from you..I just want your take on the situation..thank you

 

LM

[SexhoundDog 18]

Mrs. Adventure,

 

I'd try to put this behind me as quickly as possible. Without a doubt, you're all to blame, them for not having any more foresight than to think that anything goes, including the intimate things you and hubby reserve for each other, and you, for not saying something.

 

However, see what happens with you and hubby. He says "you're the one", so let him prove it. But at the same time, verify things. See how the lovemaking between the two of you goes, but be sure to check the ol' computer every so often and keep tabs on the phone. You mentioned he wanted to work tonite rather than come home. I can tell you're suspicious, so why not stop by and see that all looks well. If it does, how about a little hot sex right there on his desk?

 

I hope you can revitalize all between you. If you've been swinging for 5 years, I would hope so. A lot of trust had to have been there to be OK with swinging for that long. And, don't be so hard on yourself, it may be inflaming the situation as well.

[adventureUS 15]

I cant make love to him right now...I can't be intimate with him at all. All I can think about is how he had sex with her in our bed...how the act was so close to how we make love..and how he did it on our bed while I slept.

 

I did give mixed signals......and im paying dearly. Although..some things should be common sence..but not for all obviously and I pay for that too

 

....i give

[sensuality 2]

Whether you were kidding or not,you did give him the go ahead to be with her...he was kind of rude for not clarifying things with you..and she was inconsiderate as well.But, you are all equally to blame.Clearly, this couple needs to be off limits now.You need to get some rules going about what is acceptable and what is not.Have you ever told him you do not want him talking for hours to any woman? Have you made it clear he's not to fuck anyone without you knowing?Even if you're sleeping right next to them?Another things is...don't let anyone stay the night like that unless you are looking for a polyamory type situation, it muddles the line between swinging and actual polyamory, at least to me, anyway.Swinging is about the sex...it's not about hours on the phone and re-enacting your lovemaking with another person, that is so beyond disrespect....I wouldn't blame you if you knocked him over the head with a skillet... But, then you'd have to kick yourself in the ass for not stopping this before it got to this point.

Rule#1:

No phone calls other than to make plans to meet...if you want to chat,do it online so you both can read what the convos are about.

Rule#2:

No re-enactments of any kind...your lovemaking is for the 2 of you, not the whole world.

Rule#3:

No SleepOvers...

Whether it is at your home or a hotel, boot the bitch/couple out when you're done...{Sorry, guys...I have to be blunt here}!!

Rule#4:

Communicate, be blatantly honest about your wants and needs, your likes and dislikes...because there is a serious lack of communication going on here.I know you knew that already!!

 

And lastly...Do not allow yourself to ever be humiliated by anyone...if you sense a red flag...or your instincts tell you something is off...ACT ON THOSE FEELINGS RIGHT THEN!!!!! Sometimes, we just can't believe what we're hearing or seeing and so we go into denial when it's right there before us...I think it's a coping mechanism we humans have.But, if it smells like shit...it probably is shit!

 

Good luck, sweety!

 

Disclaimer:

This is clearly jusy SENSUALITY'S opinion and in no way reflects anyone else's views or opinions in this topic, except when it supports what I'm trying to convey!

[Vespertine 31]

Sensuality brings up some excellent points.

[growgirl 15]

Dito to sensuality, however...

 

I think you are overthinking a tad at the moment. Everything is very fresh right now. That being said though, accept things for what they are right now and learn from them. You implicity okayed them to have sex. Bad Judgement? You betcha... Would you have felt this way had they had sex w/out you but on the couch, not duplicating a "private" session?

 

While I don't mean to negate your feelings, it may help you to accept that this is one of those fucked up moments thats going to occur anywhere, be it bed, work, family etc... You move on and it hopefully will make your relationship stronger.

 

I don't agree fully w/ sexhoundog's statement though... if you're looking for something, you're going to find it wether it's actually there or only in your head. Agreed, no more phone conversations, keep everything "public" but your relationship has changed and even when this becomes a distant memory, it'll always be just a little bit different than it was before. There's nothing you can do about it now though and it's up to you and DH to move on or to dwell on it and do nothing.

 

ggs .02

[adventureUS 15]

maybe I gave mixed signals to fuck....but I NEVER gave the go ahead for them to make love.....there is a huge difference

 

im hurt and sick of always feeling like the asshole.....not this time

[EvilMJ 65]

I agree that this was a crappy situation and he had no right to do what he did, you certainly have every right to be pissed and hurt.

 

However if you want to continue to have a realitionship with your husband, you have to get over the anger and start to work towards careing about each other again. You're feelings are justified, but if you continue to let them eat at you until you are sick inside and angry at him, you are going to drive him away completely. He said he would rather stay at work tonight....this implies he 'feels' he is being driven away.

 

I am not saying that you have to accept blame, but you may have to put some of the anger and hurt aside long enough to be able to talk to him again in a less confrontational manner.

 

I hope you are able to work things out, it always makes me sad to read stories like yours, I wish I could help out!

[sensuality 2]

Oh, sweety...you are in no way the asshole here. I hope I didn't offend you at all. My heart would be in a million pieces if I were in your shoes...and it's totally understandable that you would be hurting and angry right now.You're feeling betrayed and that is something that will take a long while to mend.Maybe you two should take a long break from swinging or perhaps not swing anymore at all?It seems like he hasn't been completely honest about his wants and desires and by not communicating that to you...he has hurt you tremendously.In fact, you probably feel more like he had an affair...and that isn't cool.But, try to see your part in this, even if it is a minute one.Do you love him?Of course, you do..what am I saying?And this isn't about your love for him anyway.The real question here is one of forgiveness...Can you forgive him?Does he deserve it? The only one who knows for sure, is you.Take care...

[Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty]

I wouldn't beat YOURSELF up over this (I know, easier said then done).

 

To me saying what they are probably going to do isn't the same as saying go ahead and do it.

 

But I think what you said was vauge enough to be accepted as permission for someone who was looking for it.

 

 

Intentional? I don't know.

 

I don't think he meant to hurt you, but that doesn't mean he didn't and I believe your feelings are justified.

 

I agree with the others that this couple should be removed from your play list.

 

Swinging can go from fun to complicated Quick!

 

As the first male to respond to this thread, please be gentle..... Surrender

[biblonde 22]

My biggest problem with this is you are "fighting" over this. If this was my hubby he would be bending over backwards begging for forgiveness. And Im unclear on something ....did he say he "made love" to her? give you details? Making love is for us and us alone. We never share those intament feelings with no one else. that is just way beyond wrong!! Does he even seem like he wants to make this work for you two? Him wanting to stay at work tonight instead of coming home makes me wonder. But then again maybe some space between you guys is just what you need. Gives you time to cool off some (not that you dont have every right to be beyond pissed off!!)..and give him time to think about what he did and has been doing. This sounds more like an affair than a swinging situation. If it was just the sex part then well it would be a lesson learned but the long phone calls,,,the getting defensive for him doing wrong just doesnt sit right with me. I really hope you two can work it out and honestly I dont know any way to fix this without time and lots of talking...not fighting but talking! and listening from you both.

 

My heart goes out to you and i wish you the very best!!

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Shit...we haven't even spoken much since the "episode" except fighting ..and he would prefer to spend the night at work tonight. I havent' been sleeping and sleeping in our bed just makes me sick ...this one episode is ruining my life.

 

...after 8 years of marriage and 5 years of swinging I thought we had all our "ducks in a row".....and thats not the case

 

...our marriage is suffering..our communication is suffering...I feel dead inside

I was composing my first post while your post above mine came in.

 

Your new comments were helpful.

 

I'm concerned that if your husband doesn't feel he can talk with you about the episode in a calm and level-headed way, then he may seek comfort in the other woman. Don't push him away and throw him to her.

 

He's sleeping at the office overnight? This may be another "red flag" flying in your face.

 

Is there something else bothering you than this episode? Maybe what recently happened is bringing into focus something that's been present in your relationship for awhile that you haven't wanted to face.

 

I'm not trying to make you feel worse. I want to help. I have had moments in my life when I was so angry and hurt that I became blind. Once I calm down and acknowledge my hurt, and my fears, and look the situation straight on in a mature manner, I find my answers. Things always turned out better.

 

You can do something about your situation.

 

I'd start by paying your husband a surprise visit at his office tonight, with the intention of working this out. Talk about what's really bothering both of you and go from there.

 

Good luck.

 

LM

[RNDNV 16]

I was overly tired as I had been sick with the flu the week prior and was still recovering and exausted. I made a comment that the two "horn dogs" would probably fuck after I fell asleep..there was no mention that we werent infact going to sleep. I was kidding....and I passed out.

 

Well adventure, I can't say you "deserve" to be treated "easy" on this one. Everyone so far on the board has been very "nice" to you, but frankly, I think you deserve to hear a real authentic viewpoint that would really be helpful for you in this path you are taking as a swinger.

 

You got results exactly in line with what you created.

 

Did you or did you not in fact:

 

"participate" in selling the other couple in allowing this women to party with you and yours w/o her hubby being there?

 

party with your hubby and her, which by the way carried with it the direct implication that it was okay for your hubby to sexually engage with her as well?

 

party when you were suceptible to being "tired" at 4:30 in the morning b/c you were sick?

 

tell them (perhaps kiddingly in your mind, but you didn't say you were kidding) to go ahead a party on without you while you were sleeping?

 

choose to become a swinger?

 

have sex with her husband before?

 

Are you not in fact also choosing to not believe your hubby when he says she gabs a lot and that he loves and is committed to only you?

 

Listen lady, there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about this situation that you didn't create, and now you are whining about your results.

 

There is this story about a construction guy who always complains, every day at lunchtime when he opens his lunch pail, that he is sick and tired of peanut butter and jelly sandwichs, which is what he has for lunch everyday. One day, one of his co-workers who is tired of hearing him complain everyday says, "listen buddy, why don't you just tell your wife to make you a different kind of sandwich for lunch; a turkey or ham perhaps?" The complaining guy says back to him, "what are you talking about, I am single, I make my own lunch every morning."

 

GET IT?

[adventureUS 15]

thank you RNDNV...i give Surrender

[adventureUS 15]

im sick of always being the asshole...im done

[Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty]

Adventure,

 

Look at the number of supportive posts compared to the unsupportive one.

 

The tide is in your favor. The majority definately do not believe you are an asshole.

[TNT 1,155]

Although a little on the abrasive side, RNDNV brings up some valid points.

 

First...when in any swinging situation never kid about anything. It's way to easy for people to take what you might be kidding about seriously. If you didn't want your husband and this female having sex without your involvement, you should have definitely said something about it.

 

Secondly...you said that your husband recited one of your love making sessions when asked what they did. This needs some clarification...we all have sex with someone else like we have sex with our own partner...it's what's in the mind and heart that makes it "making love"...not in the actions of our bodies. Did he say there were feelings involved or was he just relating the same actions that you two perform?

 

You really need to work on your communication. If having your husband talking on the phone with this woman is something that you don't want going on...tell him and her that you don't want them talking. If your husband having sex with someone that is sleeping in the same bed with you both after all of you having sex together while your not involved bothers you, tell them playtime is over and it's time to go to sleep.

 

The way we see it is, you failed to speak up when something was bothering you and in letting the others involved know what you were and were not comfortable with. You have found a line that you don't want to cross but you have got to let him and others know before you get hurt.

 

Talk to your husband, rationally, he probably feels defensive because he did something that he felt you had given premission for him to do.

 

 

TNT

[RNDNV 16]

HEY, JUST WAIT A MINUTE ADVENTUREUS, where in my post did I EVER call you an asshole? No where! You put that label on yourself; that is not something I said, nor is it implied, so perhaps you may wish to consider looking at that about yourself? Secondly, who says I am not being supportive. Ms or Mr Naughty clearly suffer from the same inability to clearly communicate and understand what is being said and what is not being said. No where in my post did I call you an asshole, and if being honest and direct with you is not "being supportive" then I would say that what you are getting (and perhaps seeking as well) from the other "more supportive" posters is the kind of advise that will "support" you in continuing to be a victim of your circumstances instead of a master of your destiny.

 

Nothing should ever happen in this lifestyle that you don't want to happen, and if it does, then you have a fabulous opportunity to examine what led to that breakdown. I don't know who you are, but if there is one thing I have learned about swinging is that, done the right way for you, it can be a wonderful path for empowerment for women. This stuff is better than watching Oprah and Dr. Phil everyday for a year, and if you are really willing to look at yourself, one simple swing experience can teach you more about yourself than a year of watching Oprah and Phil.

 

Lastly, DON'T THROW IN THE TOWEL AND STOP CALLING YOURSELF AN ASSHOLE. That self-pity crap won't wash with me, and it shouldn't wash with anyone else here as well. Some may call this abrasive, I would simply say that I am being candid, honest and direct. But if you are more interested in someone blowing smoke up your ass, by all means don't listen to me.

 

Love ya.

Mr. RND

[Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty]

RNDNV,

 

You have your point of view and others have theirs. Just because you see things differently doesn't mean the rest of us are blowing smoke up her ass.

 

While we can not all be masters of communication such as your self, no matter how much we try, miscommunication does happen even in the best of relationships.

Communication is the meeting of the minds and it is not always clear if both are on the same page.

 

To me "You horn dogs are probably going to fuck again" isn't the same as "You horn dogs can fuck some more while I sleep".

 

 

If I was going to go out with the guys after work for a few beers and mrs naughty said "You probably won't be home till the bars close" I wouldn't interpret that to mean "Go ahead and stay out till the bars close".

 

Get it?

I believe that is interpreting communication.

 

You interpret it your way, and I will interpret it mine.

 

BTW,

It's Mrs, not Ms. And Mr put in the post you were refering to.

Have a good day.

[DBL D 120]

All I can say is that this is a terrible thing that's happened but it seemed to be predicted. I am not in the correct frame of mind to adequately express my sentiments to you but there do seem to be some mixed signals between all of you. I would definitely put a stop to the phone sex in the future. (I know you aren't seeing this couple again). I'm gonna have to sleep on this one.

 

And, PLEASE, stop with the personal name calling. It's not becoming.

 

Hope the night goes well for y'all.

 

Male D

[TXBLONDIE 16]

I definitely agree that there were some signs throwing up red flags that you chose not to bring to your husbands attention. As everyone on this board always preaches "Communication" is the key to this lifestyle. I cannot speak from a great deal of experience because we have really only been active in the swinging lifestyle, on and off, for about 2 1/2 years now. Let me tell you what I have learned about communication thus far....

Last weekend Mr and I had a MMF threesome with a bi single guy. It was the second time we would be together. Mr. had started questioning things, like statements the other guy made etc. I guess you could say he had a jealous twinge and was doubting us...I saw what was going on and I told him we needed to talk about this now because we were supposed to hook up with our M the next day. We gave each other a couple of hours to cool off by staying in seperate rooms doing seperate things. Time alone... We then sat and talked about it. Just feeling needy is all, that was what he told me.. so to the point..we get together with M and we are all in the heat of it, M and I were together and my husband was watching, I looked over and saw the look of someone who was very uncomfortable. I stopped the M right there by placing my hand on his chest. He stopped, got up, and Mr. asked M to leave, M started to. Mr. told M to stop, stay and that we all needed to be a part of this discussion, but first he wanted to talk to me alone. No problem with M and after we talked we talked with M and we started all over. The point is, if you are uncomfortable at any point, moment, time whatever, you stop and talk about it RIGHT THEN AND THERE!!!!! Don't blow it off or let it be blown off....plain and simple answer for me...lack of communication....it's right in front of you...

Sorry,

TXBLONDIE

[Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty]

Remember,

She was sleeping when the additional play took place.

 

It wasn't that she was watching and didn't know how to stop it. She didn't find out until the next day.

[corkwan 20]

geez, you people must watch too many tv court-room dramas. ease up on the speculation and definitions.

 

anyway, you may feel like an asshole, but you're not.

 

we went through a very similar situation, and it took a good year of trying to get our marriage back on track. you know why it took so long? forgiveness. you have to let all the anger and resentment drop off. a relationship is based on faith in each other, and that is something you appear to have lost.

 

i know you may feel responsible for the situation, but you're not the only one responsible. everyone made mistakes, and i hope that most people see that. but hanging on to all the bad feelings is not going to heal anything up. you're most likely confused yourself, and from your comments, you've lost faith in yourself too.

 

i'm here to humour you.

 

don't worry.

 

everyone fucks up. what is more crucial is getting over it. stop picking old scabs and start focusing on positive things again. make up with your husband, tell him you want a break from swinging for a while, and that you'd like to start rebuilding things.

 

forgive everyone (including yourself), reflect and learn, and move on...

[graygo98 148]

everyone fucks up. what is more crucial is getting over it. stop picking old scabs and start focusing on positive things again. make up with your husband, tell him you want a break from swinging for a while, and that you'd like to start rebuilding things.

 

forgive everyone (including yourself), reflect and learn, and move on...

 

You have clearly been through a really tough bit. But, I don't want to talk about what happened that night, or what led up to it. That's been pretty much completely thrashed out. A lot of good insight in the responses and a real lesson... even when you think you have your ducks in a row things can go south real fast.

 

What concerned me most, though, in your remarks is what has gone on since that night. You are making yourself sick with this. And, to be blunt, you are driving your husband away. He knows he did wrong, I would bet. Now I imagine that every time he sees the continuing effect his behaviour is having on you he feels guilty. Sooner or later he is going to start feeling really resentful of you for making him feel that way.

 

Corkwan's advice is bang on. Other than learning from this experience, it doesn't really matter so much now who was right and who was wrong. You really should let go. You need to forgive, starting with yourself.

[TNT 1,155]

Remember,

She was sleeping when the additional play took place.

 

It wasn't that she was watching and didn't know how to stop it. She didn't find out until the next day.

 

That's very true...however, I still see it as a lack of communication. I think there is a lesson here for all. No one is a mind reader, everyone must speak up and let their feelings known.

 

The limits of the play session were not discussed before hand.

 

They invited this woman into their home and bed, had sex with her and obviously invited her to sleep in the bed with them. Now...was the fact that there would be no play between two of them without the other involved discussed? If it wasn't I can see where her husband would think it was okay, especially with the comment she made to them, which could easily be interpreted to mean it was okay...since they had obviously already had sex that night. If it was discussed and the answer was no play without all three, then yes her husband definitely stepped over the line.

 

She's obviously extremely hurt but, I feel that she's more upset with herself for letting things go to far. To me it seems that she was seeing 'red flags' , or at the least, things that she was not happy with, before the play session ever came about and she's now wondering why she didn't stop things long ago. She's hurt, confused and upset with herself as well as her husband. Blame has to stop and healing has to start.

 

The lesson I see here is no matter what, discuss what is within your comfort zone before anything happens. Let all involved know what is okay and what is not okay and make sure that you are understood. Mistakes happen, all anyone can do is learn from them and move on.

 

 

Teresa

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I have to agree with TNT here, I don't think RNDNV presented their argument in the best way, but they do have some valid points.

 

My first question to you was why did you have her in the middle? And why if you were uncomfortable with your husband carressing her did you not change that sleeping arrangement right then?

 

By putting her in the middle and you on the outside and having already engaged in play along with your earlier comment about them having sex after you fall asleep you basically did open the door and give permission for them to walk through it.

 

Next question, did you and your husband previously to this have an agreement that nothing would happen without both of you being involved (not present - remember you were present) but involved?

 

Yes, regardless they still carry some fault here. The long conversations - I assume you were present for them, was he talking to her as much as she was talking to him? Or was he primarily there on the phone listening? If it's the latter then yes you can accept his excuse. If it was the former and he was actually TALKING on the phone where he normally does not, then yes you had every right to be concerned and should have acted on that.

 

As others have pointed out, you saw the red flags and most likely at this point you are mad at yourself (if not moreso) than you are at him, for not doing anything to stop things before they got this far.

[Alura 2,775]

There has been some wonderful advice in this thread. It's hard to add to it, but I agree there is plenty of fault to go around in this case. The key is to accept and admit that and carry on from here.

 

I'm not so sure I'd give up on that couple based on what happened that night. Perhaps it is necessary for the safety of your marriage, but I can't help but feel they might be scratching their heads and wondering, "Just what the hell happened????"

 

There is a need to discuss limits, particularly exactly what constitutes "making love" since that, in itself, must be defined by each couple.

 

I'm not sure the problem can be solved by quitting swinging. There is likely to be some resentment on the part of your husband, especially if he feels you overreacted.

 

One of our rules is: Regardless of what happens during the evening's play, we always sleep together. We tell our playmates of this rule up-front. Our last act of an evening of play has been to make love together. There is no room for others to be involved when we "make love."

 

Mr. Alura

[RNDNV 16]

Dear Adventureus, at the end of the day, what comes through loud and clear as the biggest issue you are dealing with is your own insecurity. Many couples (not all, but many) get to a point in their swinging life where they are comfortable with seperate room play, even with relative strangers. I am not saying that is for you and yours, but there is certainly room to grow for you guys, and I agree with most others that most of that growth needs to be in the area of your guy's communication. My main point is that you and your hubby may be in different places, comfort wise, with the Lifestyle, and it sounds like you need a sit down to define who's "pace of play" is the slower/more sensitive one, and agree to go at that person's pace (it sounds like yours, and if so, it is okay to say "hey I need this in order for this swinging thing to continue to happen").

 

Unlike what others are picking up from my prior posts, I am not here to bag on you, but to support you in being more than you currently see yourself. Beating yourself up is NOT productive. Really examining what happened, how it happened and came about, and learning from it so that you can move on IS the productive thing you should do. In otherwords, don't use this event to give you an excuse to beat up on yourself (unless you really want to in order to support some low self-concept you are subconsciously carrying around about yourself), that is not going to get you anything, and like someone else said, it may have the effect of driving your hubby away.

 

My last point is to emphazise a position counter to what most everyone else is saying, and that is, I still am not convinced that your husband has done anything wrong here. That said, I want you to be clear that I don't thing you have done anything wrong either. Both of you made some choices, and the result of those choices now have given you "stuff" to work on. But the whole blame game (who is wrong, who is right) isn't going to get either of you anywhere. Just look at what happened (together), and sit down and have a non-accusatory conversation about what worked, and what didn't (for both of you) and recommit to making your next journey down the swing path a better one because of what you learned from this event.

[DBL D 120]

There's just something about being an asshole, and I don't think it is the fact that you are feeling lower on the food chain or anything like it. I think you said that because you felt that someone had to make a tough decision and it was you. Mistakenly, we call people like them assholes sometimes when we all know that someone has to do it every so often.

 

My point is that it isn't getting you anywhere in your relationship that is positive. Work on trust, communication and maybe even bartering to get where you need to be, but don't give up! Please?

 

Male D

[twoplayful2 16]

Adventureus,

 

I think all were at fault, some more than others, but all enough that nobody should be singled out. I agree with much of what RND says but I do think that your husband did make some mistakes here for sure. But nothing that bad, just a little bad form on top of some poor communication. I also think that you might have been testing your husband a little bit with letting the other women stay over, letting yourself fall asleep without being in the middle or it or letting them know in some way that it's not okay for them to play without you. I think after the 4-hour phone calls you had some feelings and wanted to test them out. I think you got what you felt was confirmation of your feelings and you got pissed off about it. But I do not think that the confirmation was necessarily valid. Just because he's enjoying the attention a little too much doesn't mean he's falling for her. Just because he has slower, more sensual, passionate sex with her doesn't mean they were "making love". It was probably just something different for him.

 

I also agree with whoever said that the you are pushing him away by the way you're currently acting. This isn't to say you're not justified in feeling or acting this way, it's just to say that it's not going to get you the best results.

 

Though I know it's very difficult because of some understandably strong feelings and emotions, I think the solution is pretty simple. You need to forget about blaming him and let him know that. You need to both agree that it was just a situation that went the wrong way (if it's wrong for one, it's wrong for both). It doesn't matter that he's not accepting full blame for this, as long as he now understands your feelings and is totally accepting what you two do from here.

 

As for this couple, IMO it should just be cut off regardless of who was at fault. 4-hour conversations are going to be too difficult to just turn off. Stuff that's happened and feelings that remain are just going to make things too complicated, and that's not what the "lifestyle" should be all about. You need to just move on and put it all behind you.

 

And this "I'm the asshole" stuff should be stopped. It's an angry response, and if you're using it with him then it needs to stop.

[twoplayful2 16]

the fact that you are feeling lower on the food chain or anything like it. I think you said that because you felt that someone had to make a tough decision and it was you.

 

BTW, I don't agree that is the purpose of "I'm the asshole" here. It's probably not so much about her feeling bad as it is about her feeling she's losing the fight. When someone feels like they lose too many arguments they often resort to "okay, whatever, I'm wrong as usual, I'm the asshole once again", etc, etc. The problem has become a point that needs to be won more than something that needs to be worked out. Adventureus understandably feels very hurt and confused in this but needs to somehow get herself calmed down and thinking rationally about all of the points people brought up here (whether they're for or against her decisions) and her current situation. "I'm the asshole" is just throwing in the towel, and while that's fine to do with us, I don't think it's something she can do in this particular situation with her husband.

[DBL D 120]

Hey twoplayful,

 

I get what you're saying but I'm just relating how it was used in our situation.

 

I do think that if the lady wasn't reacting so strongly (maybe over-reacting?) that they would both (Hubby & Wifey) feel better about each other in the future. People can't just expect that they can lay out all the plans as to how they want things to go and then quit when things happen differently. We've definitely changed our thoughts about the lifestyle and sometimes those changes were made "on the fly".

 

Hope she can forgive and forget.

 

Male D

[4 is better 15]

I agree with Corkwan.

 

You need to forgive yourself and your husband. Taking a break is a good idea as well. It will give you a chance to rebuild your relationship and improved your communication skills. The most important thing should be the relationship you have to each other. This may mean taking a step back from swinging for the short term and learning to reconnect and trust one another again. You may want to look at why you were reluctant to speak up when you felt uncomfortable with the relationship your husband was developing with the other women. The only way swinging will work is if you are willing to be totally honest, that includes sharing feelings of insecurity and mistrust.

 

Another thing you may want to look into is why your husband was on the phone for hours at a time. Maybe he was getting something from the phone conversation that he wasn’t getting from home. But then again, it may have just been the initial rush you get when you flirt with someone new. This is one of the attractions of swinging. You need to determine what it was.

 

Finally, anger has a way of clouding your judgment and not letting you see things rationally. Get over the anger and start working on your relationship. The longer the anger builds the harder it is to overcome; it tends to take on a life of its own.

[midnight hour 16]

This is one reason we don't do the phone thing at all. Other then calling to se if someone needs more directions or if they are coming etc. Too much of a chance to get too personal..I know a lot will not do the computer thing and only do the phone so we are kinda against the grain. I don't like the fact of another man having my phone number to *just call* or a woman with Mr. Midnights number just to talk. Makes it wayyyyyy to personal to me. we will im forever, go into chats etc. but we can save copies of them. That way if we feel someone is too pushy or too personal we can both look at it and go hmmm..we have ran into some couples also who don't like the concept we tell the other who and what we talked about for what ever reason we hear don't you trust...trust has nothing to do with it....we just need to know everyone is on the same page...we run into men who are talking a whole different game from the woman...and that we need to know...since Mr. Midnight works nights we are not online a lot together but at different times. And I know one rule unspoken would be no one else in the bed after it was done. That is what couches and extra bedrooms are for...if anyone snuggles with Mr. Midnight it will be me, and I can not see me snuggling with another man with Mr. Midnight there..or any sex happening with one of us asleep...I feel for you....try to talk...

 

Midnight Hour

[amBIdextrous 17]

Having just joined I am reluctant to buy into that one. I cannot help feeling that adventureUS may have been insecure about swinging, the effect it may have on her relationship etc.etc. What the whole thing needs is honest straight talk, no heated accusations, and to get your husband to understand why you felt that way.

After all I assume you all had sex together in various ways, and your husband maybe reliving what happened, the memory just got him horny one more time.

I cannot help feeling that insecurity got the better of you, and sincerely hope that you two can work it out between yourselves, and put the whole thing down to experience. We never stop learning about ourselves, our partners, or friends.

I keep my fingers crossed for the both of you, and hope to hear that it all ended well.

Love can overcome anything. Hate mostly hurts the hater.

[Mr.Hyde 15]

My wife did the same thing that your husband did except she skipped the whole making love thing and just fucked him. How did I feel about it? I totally understood it and actually thought it was fine given the circumstances. We were all sleeping in the same bed, completely naked, with her in between us, and we had just gotten through having sex all night. I couldnt exactly say that it was a shocker. I might have done the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot unless we had specific rules specifying otherwise.And I would have certainly entertained the thought if my wife had alluded to it right before we layed down beside one another. I guess I'm saying that you have every right to feel weird about it. Anybody has a right to feel weird about anything that they wish to. I just wouldnt necessarily treat him like you found out he was banging his secretary behind your back given the circumstances. This might just be one you want to put in the books under the never do again category and try to move forward.

 

Hyde

[wethere 15]

You may have hit the nail on the head, in that you may not be cut out for this. If the role was reversed would your husand have a problem with it. Give this some thought and good luck in the future.

[WildMainePussy 15]

Don't forget to have the phone company block that particular phone number from getting through to your home. If the history of long phone calls is as long as you say, she might not just give up and go away that easily. Calls to the work place are usually discouraged by management so it won't be that easy to reach him there.

 

I put up with 2-3 hour phone calls my ex-hubby got from a woman he was obsessed with for 2 years while I was trying to work on saving our marriage. The phone company at that time wasn't so sophisicated then and there was nothing I could do. I completely understand the seething rage you feel on that one. Don't let it overcome you.

[sensuality 2]

WMP...I totally agree with you. An excellent idea!!

[mde 4764 15]

Bases on the story told, it appears that most of the blame and responsibility for what happened is being placed on the husband. In fact I didn't see where you accepted any responsibility in the matter. All I hear is poor pitiful me and don't you all agree that I should feel the way I do.

 

You agreed to have this woman come over and play with you and your husband and said that you all had a blast. Joking or not, you did give them permission to fuck after you went to sleep. Now, because they did, you get pissed at your husband and it's his fault because you feel the way you do. If the shoe was on the other foot, would your husband be pissed if you had been fucking while he was asleep?

 

I think that if you want to save your marriage you need to get over your self pity and being mad at your husband for not being a mind reader. Your actions are pushing him away. You need to go to him in a non confrontational manner and attempt to talk this out before it is to late, if it isn't already so. I feel sorry for you and your situation, but you aren't doing anything to try to straighten it out either.

[twoplayful2 16]

Don't forget to have the phone company block that particular phone number from getting through to your home.

 

Seems a bit extreme. If you have to go to those lengths then perhaps you've got greater problems. If the woman persists, just give her husband a call. She is still married also, afterall. But if you're going to go the overcontrolling route, why not change the phone number entirely, stick one of those location monitor anklet things on him, move to another city...

[Vantabulous 15]

I know I coming in on this one late and I won't embarass myself by trying to provide any sage advice, particularly from the standpoint of firsthand experience.

 

Something that struck me about the "a--hole" reference in one of adventureUS' later posts is that she doesn't say she's sick and tired of feeling like "an" a--hole but, rather, "the" a--hole.

 

To my mind, "an" would imply that this unfortunate situation was the first time this couple had a serious problem with their swinging. On the other hand, "the" suggests to me that this isn't the first time, i.e. Mrs. adventureUS has had issues before and Mr. has, perhaps, made her feel like she's the one who's way off base. She also made the comment, "not this time", which also suggests to me that there's more to this than what lies on the surface - not that it isn't more than enough for most folks.

 

My gut feeling on this one is that Mr. adventureUS has pushed the limits, spoken or unspoken, more than once and this incident was just too far over-the-top for Mrs. to let slide by.

 

Sorry if someone else picked up on this and I missed it.

 

Van

[WildMainePussy 15]

If the woman persists, just give her husband a call. She is still married also, afterall.

 

Hmmmmm....got a point there.

Where's the husband and his thoughts? Is he aware of the situation that's developed? Wouldn't he wonder why the sudden drop if you have been playing on a consistant basis with them? What's his take on the phone calls or do they take place when he's out of town.

[dutch51 15]

 

You agreed to have this woman come over and play with you and your husband and said that you all had a blast. Joking or not, you did give them permission to fuck after you went to sleep. Now, because they did, you get pissed at your husband and it's his fault because you feel the way you do. If the shoe was on the other foot, would your husband be pissed if you had been fucking while he was asleep?

 

 

We may be in the minority here, but I can't agree with the idea that making a comment like she did is the same as giving permission. Now the hubby may have taken it that way, and he and the other woman obviously did, but nothing short of Mrs Adventure saying "look, it's okay with me if you two want to have sex later even if I'm asleep," is giving permission. Doesn't look like she did that at all.

 

I see a big respect issue here that needs to be addressed. Unless directly given permission for (which it wasn't), having sex in the bed beside a sleeping wife was a disrespectful thing for the two of them to do. If I was the third person, you'd better believe I would *never* do a thing like that, and would not want it done to me. Swinging is about mutual involvement and pleasure between all persons and to exclude one is not respectful. It doesn't matter what was done in the past, that evening or before, it's being respectful in the moment and not letting your groin rule your head. Let's remember the Mrs. was still recovering from the flu and when you've been sick like that, you're probably not feeling your best anyway.

 

People have mentioned the "shoe on the other foot" thing, but have left out one VERY important thing- personal comfort levels. Whether Mr Adventure would be okay if the reverse happened has nothing to do with what Mrs actually feels in her heart. We can all be fair and unselfish to each other, and allow our spouse to have the same freedoms and opportunities we have, but it doesn't mean we're going to automatically be equally comfortable or feel the same about it. That's something we all have to grow into. So to imply that if he was okay with it happening, then she should be too is wrong and unfair.

 

I don't have much to add to previous comments about the red flags seen earlier in the friendship, because that seems to be well-covered. It looks like Mrs has taken responsibility for what's happened previously, which is why she's beating herself up and feeling bad. We all make mistakes, goodness know's we've make plenty when dealing with couples, but swinging, no matter how long you've been doing it, is a constantly learning experience. New things crop up, and no matter how much you discuss beforehand, things happen. The key is to address them and learn from them. Now it is time to discuss, heal, forgive and move on.

 

We wish you luck, the both of you, and hope that in time things are resolved and your closeness is renewed. There is no need to place blame now, but to deal with the resulting feelings and work through things together.

 

Sending lots of hugs to the both of you....

[Vantabulous 15]

From the viewpoint of an "outsider", I agree with dutch51 that Mrs. did not give permission. I also feel that Mr. took her comments as permission because it was self-serving, and, no doubt, he's tried to leverage her comment into a "miscommunication".

 

I still feel it's happened before and not just once.

 

As for the notion that contacting the MIA husband will do any good, I wouldn't count on it. He didn't give his permission with the proviso that Mrs. adventureUS would play the part of a chaperon to his wife. He gave permission to his wife to have sex. Period. For all any of us knows, she gave him the go-ahead to do the same. Even odds that he knows about the four-hour phone calls, too, unless he's totally out of touch. (Common sense here, folks.)

 

Personally, I can think of no greater pain than to wake up in the morning, hoping against hope, that something that's happened didn't really happen and that, somehow, everything will be as it was before only to realize that it won't.

 

Don't let "it" control you. Empower yourself and take dutch51's advice to, "...discuss, heal, forgive and move on."

 

Van