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Husband let wife's boss touch her while she was passed out

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I wouldn't feel as strongly as intuition897 does. (I think most figured that out).

 

Nice to hear from you twoplayful2. I do agree marriages either get stronger or wearker and it takes lots of effort to keep making one stronger.

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ok...you reeled me in...I think this is being blown WAAAAAY out of proportion. This is really quite simple: wife makes error in judgement (gets sloshed out of control at a business-related social event (or anywhere for that matter), boss makes error in judgement (eyes/makes advancements toward employee in a sexual way), husband makes error in judgement (allows wife's boobs to be seen/touched without her permission).

 

Were they all the wrong things to do? Of course, but please, let's try to use some perspective here!!! I once (ok, maybe a couple times) banged someone out of drunken stupidity (error in judgement) that I would have under no circumstances ever done if I had my full faculties about me. I was a little pissed the next day that I had done it, but that's about it. Sure, I coulda been pissed at my friends (which in college are about the equivalent to a spouse :) ) for letting it happen, and could've felt violated and I suppose I could've even taken a 3 hour shower, but I find it's best to put things in perspective properly.

 

I still have all 4 limbs (thank you), my home is still standing strong (thank you), and at least for the moment I can still afford to put gas in my car which is still running well (thank you, thank you).

 

Again to wrap up, 3 people screwed up, a couple boobs were felt, and now 3 people should feel a little ticked off maybe...THAT'S IT!

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themonster said:

Again to wrap up, 3 people screwed up, a couple boobs were felt, and now 3 people should feel a little ticked off maybe...THAT'S IT!

 

I think you're taking this a little too lightly. Yes maybe some people have blown it out of proportion but you seem to be going the other way. I don't think this comes close to comparing to a guy getting too drunk in college and banging a chick that when sober he wouldn't have looked at once let alone take her to bed. It is a couple in the lifestyle where trust is the main factor. No the wife probably shouldn't have gotten that drunk, but maybe she felt like she could since she assumed hubby was there to watch out for her. Also, the guy he let fondle her wasn't just some no name at the party (and no that wouldn't have made a difference) but it was her boss who she had rejected advances from before and hubby knew this. Yes she was violated and has every right to feel that way. She now has a husband she can't trust and a hostile work environment. Don't think I'd want to go to work knowing my boss got away with that. We have all voiced our opinions here based on our experiences and relationships to our spouse and she may surprise us all and laugh it off. I think that would be the most unlikely scenario but anything can happen.

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I agree with mrs. spoo...although I would be pissed as hell and IMHO...this is a form of rape to me. If my hubby just stood there and allowed this I would feel he was a part of that and would be out on his ass (at least for a while). He knew good and well she didnt like the boss and still allowed this to happen! And she was passed out and had no say in this! Just because she chose to get passed out drunk doesnt mean that it is okay to take advantage of her... If you fondle or have sex with someone passed out you go to JAIL...Just because they are swingers doesnt make it any different! If this was in a different situation do you think it would just be blown off? Most of us trust that our SO will keep our back and keep us safe. This guy allowed another man in which she didnt like play with and suck on her tits!! For those that are saying this isnt a big deal think of it this way...what if it was your daughter...sister..mother. then how would you feel about the hubby and the boss?????? If you were at a party and passed out and someone came in and did this would you just blow it off...Sorry I wouldnt!!

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Not "no big deal...just blow it off" and not "rape" but somewhere inbetween. There is an inbetween opinion, it doesn't have to be completely one way or the other.

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One more thing for those who are taking this so lightly...and sorry but I strongly believe in this!...any sexual act preformed without the concent of BOTH parties is called RAPE punishable by jail time...anyone standing around and allowing it to happen is contributing to the crime also punishable by jail time. The law doesn't read with the concent of both parties involved or their spouse... the rules apply whether or not it is your boss...spouse....co-worker..friend or stranger...think about it!

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Mrs Spoomonkey said:
We have all voiced our opinions here based on our experiences and relationships to our spouse and she may surprise us all and laugh it off. I think that would be the most unlikely scenario but anything can happen.

 

I agree with Mrs. Spoo. Reactions depend on the person/relationship, entirely. I just think that when the reality of what happened sinks in, there are going to be some very hurt feelings. Then again, maybe it'll be water off a duck's back. From my perspective, and in my own relationship, the reaction would be a bit more extreme. Mr. and I have had issues of our own in our relationship...nothing quite like this, but the bottom line is there were times that we weren't there for each other when it counted the most. We've worked past that and really grown from it. We've sworn to each other than we would do everything in our power to never allow one another to be hurt again. So keeping in mind we have a history of trust issues, yeah!! this would be huge deal! I just know that I wouldn't want to be in either of their shoes! What a rotten situation.

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intuition897 said:
Mr. and I have had issues of our own in our relationship...nothing quite like this, but the bottom line is there were times that we weren't there for each other when it counted the most. We've worked past that and really grown from it. We've sworn to each other than we would do everything in our power to never allow one another to be hurt again. So keeping in mind we have a history of trust issues, yeah!! this would be huge deal!

 

So you have been there, done that in your own form and stayed together and grown from it. And NOW if something happened it would be awful. But for this couple, what if this is not an old, fixed issue, revisited...but more like the past issues you have already dealt with? New to them?

I took the view it was NEW for them, not an old hurt opened again. Big difference, IMO.

 

I think they need to have the chance to work it out (not go to jail, as biblonde suggests) and grow from it as others have and have built more trust from experiences.

 

I wouldn't be married for 25yrs if I had tossed him out over mistakes made when he was impaired (what I did instead was put him in rehab :) worked too).

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tribbles said:
I took the view it was NEW for them, not an old hurt opened again. Big difference, IMO.

 

I agree there is a huge difference. Sometimes I find it difficult to remember that the things Mr. and I are now 'enlightened' about - so to speak - the things that are as plain as the noses on our faces to us, are not nearly so obvious to others who haven't been there, done that.

 

I have to keep reminding myself that not everyone's relationship reflects the same extreme intensity in such matters as ours might.

 

Sorry for the skewed POV, folks! Just ignore me :o lol

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OHHH I didnt suggest he go to jail I was saying that it was something that could happen. It is illegal to molest someone was my point. Even if the spouse gave permission. This is an issue that I truely believe that shouldnt be taken lightly. You trust that your spouse will protect you wether it be the wife or the hubby. HE willingly let another man molest his wife knowing she didnt like the other man and SHE WAS PASSED OUT therefore there was no concent given. I know I have 100% trust that my hubby will keep me safe..and he knows I watch out for him. Breaking this kind of trust is almost inforgiveable to me! He said that he wasnt even sure he would have stopped the Boss if he wanted to go further which would have been rape...plain and simple. And you..tibbles....thinks she should forgive him in time?? There are things that can be forgiven...like cheating...but this way crosses the line.

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Breaking this kind of trust is almost inforgiveable to me!
To you, yeah, exactly. The point is that people react different, place different values on different things.

 

Lots of things are illegal. Someone might flip out if their spouse were speeding or smoked pot or whatever, where other people don't see it quite the same way. I'm not saying your response to a situation like this one would be an over-reaction, but implying that everyone must feel the same way you do about it or they must be crazy or something definitely is.

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"OHHH I didn't suggest he go to jail I was saying that it was something that could happen. It is illegal to molest someone was my point."

c'mon now, you can't have it both ways....either he has done something he should go to jail for or he hasn't. Someone who molests, or allows it to happen SHOULD ABSOLUTELY go to jail....no if's and's or but's. But that's not what happened here...in a moment of altered thinking, pervertedly kinky heat of the moment bad judgement some person allowed a booby to get sucked. Holy shit I bet that booby will never be able to be used again. Never again will it come to see the light of day, never again will it be able to be felt by another's hand, never again will it.....well you get my point. That lil' booby will be just fine.....

 

He SHOULD get his ass chewed out just the same as if he had done one of the many other things he has and will continue to do wrong or inappropriately as all people do. Now if he makes the same mistake again...yeah..now he deserves to be left, but in my opinion anyone who says they'd leave their spouse over one big foul-up is either not thinking straight, lying, wanting to sound super tough and in control, or just plain doesn't have that strong of a connection in their relationship. I would NEVER and I repeat NEVER leave my wife for one act of indiscretion or screw up. Everyone is entitled to screw up...just learn from it and don't do it again. And I believe that this is exactly what Mr. Showmywife'stits is in the process of doing.

 

Is the trust issue gonna be there for a while? Sure, probably so, but let's all (most of the respondents) just breeeeaaathhe...and remember the perspective thing.

 

What I'm most surprised about is that given today's overreacting greedy-ass do anything for a buck society that there has been no discussion of suing the boss for 100 million dollars for "pain and suffering".

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themonster said:
What I'm most surprised about is that given today's overreacting greedy-ass do anything for a buck society that there has been no discussion of suing the boss for 100 million dollars for "pain and suffering".

 

No but I'd sue his perverted ass if he even batted an eye at me in the office for sexually harassment!! I think I'd tell him too the first time I saw him after finding out about the incident. I'd make him more nervous and uncomfortable at work then I would be.

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Mrs Spoomonkey said:
... I think I'd tell him too the first time I saw him after finding out about the incident. I'd make him more nervous and uncomfortable at work then I would be.

I kinda like that idea. :D

 

On the other hand, it was pretty creepy what he did and I think I'd try find another job as soon as I could.

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BradAndJanet said:
On the other hand, it was pretty creepy what he did and I think I'd try find another job as soon as I could.

Dito. I might be compelled to look for another husband, too.

 

I don't know who I'd have less respect for: My husband or my employer.

 

The entire scenario gives me the heebie-jeebies. :rolleyes:

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Vespertine,

you either married a saint, or are young and haven't been together long. (If a saint, congrats, most of us are just real screw ups when young). My POV is that after 25 years there are LOTS of stupid wrong hurtful stuff in our past that we learned from, got closer because we had to work thru it, and have helped us built a good relationship. Forgiveness and understanding go a long way to keeping people together (and might even stop wars!)

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We're fairly young, been married about 10 years. I didn't marry a saint, but I married a man that has total respect for me: mind, body and soul, as I do him.

 

I agree, people screw up- and we learn from our mistakes, but some things are intolerable. Giving my employer, that I've specifically expressed disinterest in, permission to remove my top, caress and suckle my breasts, while I'm incapacitated crosses the line.

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Well I have to say I have been with hubby 23 YEARS!!! and yes he and I have both done stupid things. BUT never would he disrespect me in this way...NEVER EVER! and as for those that said well..there are other things illegal that you could get upset about also... well sorry they dont even come close to hubby letting a man that was often told NO to...MOLEST me. you can sugar coat it anyway you want...rape=rape=rape....molest=molest=molest!!! Luckily I married a REAL man that totally respects my body and my life. This guy was willing to allow his wife's boss to do as he pleased and even said he probably would have let it go further...This guy would be out the door..if not more. Sorry I dont think it is okay to be with a man that I cant trust to protect me. The next time he may allow this person or some other one to actually rape her...why would anyone feel like this is someone she should stay with?? I just dont get it. I guess I respect myself to much to allow such crap!

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lol, okay, okay...obviously this guys one step away from being a serial rapist himself ;) You're correct, the rest of us should have no right at all to feel differently than you do, we should be completely appalled, we have no legit reason to think anything else and anyone who does obviously has something wrong with them. Both men involved should be locked up and throw away the keys! There ya go! Some excellent points made by you that apparenty nobody else her can dispute.

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It's hard to comprehend the mentality that accuses the woman of having done anything wrong in this particular situation. It doesn't matter how drunk you are, that does NOT give anyone the right to rape, molest, manhandle, what have you. She has done absolutely nothing wrong.

 

He voilated her trust, he allowed a man (who she repeatedly rejected) who was in a position of power in her work life purposely use her in a sexual manner. She now has to face this man on a day to day basis...her husband does not.

 

Maybe she will be able to find it in her heart to work through this and forgive him. I don't think it is possible to make light of this matter, it is quite serious and I think her husband needs to come to the realization that his wife is not something that he can hand around to just any horney old bastard that wants a lick, it doesn't work that way. When you get married you made a promise to love and support that person. Sure my husband has made mistakes, so have I, and we forgave each other. But this is beyond the realm of stupid mistakes.

 

I think it is natural that we are all going to have differing opinons but I don't think you have to be married a long time or be of any particular age to realize that this guy was wrong. This isn't a case of hubby got drunk and made a fool of himself, it is a case of allowing his wife to be used in a way that is both demeaning and disrespectful. - there is only so much forgiveness to go around and some situations crack the foundation of a marriage so badly that you can't repair it.

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twoplayful2....dispute away...it doesn't bother me any! I am just making a point..which I feel strongly about. I as a woman would be beyond furious with hubby if he allowed such a thing. It is not just a stupid mistake made by hubby but in fact he allowed and gave permission for his wife to be assaulted...and now isn't telling her about it. This boss sees her everyday and she has no idea that this man whom she rejected over and over again did this. I never once called this man "someone on the edge of being a serial rapist" But HE is the one who said he let his wife be molested with his permission...walks like a duck...quacks like a duck...hmmmm must be a duck. I have way too much respect (as does my hubby) to say that this is okay!! IT IS BEYOND WRONG!!!! More women should defend themselves against this being okay. And more men should be disgusted at this....THAT IS MY OPINION!!! take it or leave it I really dont care! those that think this is no big deal I have have to say is THANK GOD!! I am not married to you! I want to know that I am protected from creeps like this. If you cant trust your own spouse to keep you safe then who can you??

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I asked my husband his opinion of this scenario.

 

He believes this is sexual assault. Period. He also said that even if the husband gave the boss 'permission', it doesn't make it any less of a sexual assault. The husband doesn't own his wife's body, so his permission means jack squat. It's her body, not his. She decides.

 

He also thinks it's in the realm of unforgivable mistakes to make.

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As the Mr. of BB, I cannot believe how someone could think the action by this girl's boss could be anywhere close to an excusable act. Those with a low level of moral fiber may want to come up with excuses however, the law would see this act in a different light and if charges were pressed, there would be two men behind bars. Yes, the husband handled this poorly, but her boss (the person in power over her employment for those of you in West Palm Beach) committed a crime. That my friends is inexcusable.

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It's hard to comprehend the mentality that accuses the woman of having done anything wrong in this particular situation. It doesn't matter how drunk you are, that does NOT give anyone the right to rape, molest, manhandle, what have you. She has done absolutely nothing wrong.

 

Thinking that getting drunk to the point of passing out at a company party does nothing to harm the relationship is being blind to the effects of drug abuse and alcohol abuse on a relationship, IMO. As others have said in this thread, she is at fault as well.

 

Vespertine-I'm glad you and your hubby view it the same way since it means you two are in tune. Be aware that others of who view it differently are no less in tune and no more right or wrong except for themselves. NO ONE has said what he did was right. That has not been an issue. It's more a matter of degree of wrongness (speeding vs killing...big difference) that we are discussing. And how each of us could forgive or not forgive errors in judgement.

 

twoplayful2 :claps:

 

I doubt if the penal system could afford to put them behind bars, biblonde. Maybe probation and court ordered counseling? :lol: I want my tax dollars spend locking up the truly dangerous ones. As for marrying a REAL man...what, you think the rest of the males aren't really XY? Since there are more screw ups than saints, maybe it's those you call real men who are XYY? Genetic testing is available (Ok tongue in cheek....it's just one of those nutty social buttons that is pointless to push in a discussion other than to stir up emotion..IMO again)

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Vespertine-I'm glad you and your hubby view it the same way since it means you two are in tune. Be aware that others of who view it differently are no less in tune and no more right or wrong except for themselves. NO ONE has said what he did was right. That has not been an issue. It's more a matter of degree of wrongness (speeding vs killing...big difference) that we are discussing. And how each of us could forgive or not forgive errors in judgement.

Hmm...

 

I'm puzzled tribbles.

 

All I did was express my opinion of the situation. My opinion is that the situation is unforgivable. I never said "Hey! You're wrong because you don't agree with me!". I simply stated my opinion to the OP who posted, asking for opinions.

 

You said (to me): "Be aware that others of who view it differently are no less in tune and no more right or wrong except for themselves."

Please read your advice to me, and heed it. I believe you were the one to point out that I must be young or not married long enough to fully understand forgiveness, thus implying that my opinion has no merrit.

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Well tribbles I am real happy that you condone Rape and molesting. And the real men are those that would protect their wife from such an act. What went on here was plain and simple....SEXUAL ASSAULT!!!!!!! And Yes I want my tax dollars being spent on those that commit such acts! And saying she was at fault because she was drunk...WTF....that is like saying a woman deserves to be raped because she was wearing something...or a child being molested because they dont know to say NO...THERE IS NO BLAME ON A WOMAN WHO WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED!!!!!! SHE DIDN'T ASK FOR IT...THE MAN CHOSE TO FORCE HIMSELF ON HER!!!

 

You disgust me to no end blaming her for this!!

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Vespertine,

I didn't mean it to sound that way. Everyone's opinion is just that...their opinion. And people do change as life alters them. Sorry if you took it as a slam toward yours. My view is that to stay together takes lots of communication, tolerance and forgiveness. My view of your POV was that you said I might be compelled to look for another husband, too. And that seems like you are advocating divorce over attempting to work thru life as partners. I suspect I see people as a whole as more screwed up and likely to make even bad mistakes that they can learn from, than you do...but I'm guessing that by how I interpret your posts. It's super hard to communicate on message boards but I love trying anyway cuz it can make me think. (And feel and flame and well...grow as a human).

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biblonde, IF this discussion is too heated for you, remember it's the internet...it is NOT your life....you have sounded HAPPY with your man...let it go and enjoy that fact in your life.

 

What happened to someone else and how they cope and how all of us would cope and think and feel different from you...is just that. Different from you.

 

And as others can probably read...we didn't blame her. We blamed everyone.

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tribbles said:
Thinking that getting drunk to the point of passing out at a company party does nothing to harm the relationship is being blind to the effects of drug abuse and alcohol abuse on a relationship, IMO. As others have said in this thread, she is at fault as well.

 

 

YOUR words dear...she is at fault as well...

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biblonde said:
YOUR words dear...she is at fault as well...

Good I think you may be starting to get what we mean. Yes, they are all at fault in our opinion.

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tribbles said:
Thinking that getting drunk to the point of passing out at a company party does nothing to harm the relationship is being blind to the effects of drug abuse and alcohol abuse on a relationship, IMO. As others have said in this thread, she is at fault as well.

 

Sorry I have to completely disagree with you. Someone passing out at a party is not harmful to a relationship unless it is something that happens on a continual basis. This woman could be like me and pass out after a very few number of drinks...nevertheless. She cannot be held responsible for her husband allowing someone to molest her while she is incapacitated. I have seen lots of people over do it at a party, but their SO managed to get them home without getting mauled by their boss. Sorry... that doesn't fly...

 

Personally I think this conversation has pretty much been beaten to death. Obviously we are not all going to agree on this and that's fine.

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She cannot be held responsible for her husband allowing someone to molest her while she is incapacitated

 

Without this I might have stopped cuz I do agree we aren't going to view this situation eye to eye and the best we can do is agree to disagree. But it sounds like you are mixing responsibility for alcohol abuse with responsibility for what her husband allowed. Two different wrongs, IMO, but both wrong. Not even equal in wrongness, what he allowed I would rate higher on the wrongness scale. I do think both are wrongs that can be learned from and the relationship can survive. And that is purely our opinion.

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biblonde said:
rape=rape=rape, molest=molest=molest!!!

A good explanation of why we're seeing things differently. It's apparently all black and white to you where I, crazy as this may sound, feel that a violent rape attack of a child (extreme example but it makes a point...whether you understand it or not) is not quite the same as the nipple-licking we're talking about here.

 

biblonde said:
those that think this is no big deal I have have to say is THANK GOD!! I am not married to you!

And vice-versa. As my example shows, I think there is a grey area and THANK-GOD my wife is not one who can't see that and not someone who over-reacts and has such little tolerance or respect for opinions of others.

 

There is no disagreement between anyone here on whether this was wrong or not. The guy was wrong, he screwed up, we all agree on that. But whether a punishment like divorce fits the crime or not is where we're apparently not all agreeing. My opinion is that it does not and I really don't give a crap if anyone here agrees with that or not. Again, I'm not CONDONING what he did, I'm simply saying from my perspective the punishment does not necessarily fit the crime. There are a lot more variables here like little details that we don't know about and what type of personality and relationship they've got that factor into how she should react and what they should do about it. It's not all black and white with everyone and if you can't understand that there's not much I can do about that.

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I'm all for people having their own views/opinions as long as they match mine...lol...j/k...

 

But seriously, it's all the double standards that get annoying. For example, BIBLONDE, when you said:

 

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"You are suppose to keep your wife safe especially when she can't look after herself! You and MR. Boss being drunk as well is no excuse in my book!!!!!"

 

...ok...now that means that the wife is not supposed to take care of herself, that it is only her husband's job to do so, and even more so when she chooses to act irresponsibly and carelessly. I personally don't agree, I think a woman can and should be able to care for herself (under normal situations of course, a work party being one of them). But ok....maybe that's just me, but here's where the problem lies...

 

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"You and MR. Boss being drunk as well is no excuse in my book!!!!!"

 

....STOP !!!!! ...look at that again, then come back here and continue.....the wife bears absolutely no responsibility for her actions because she was drunk, but the other two men bear responsibility for themselves AND the wife even though they were quite probably drinking as well????......hmmmmm.....c'mon now....even the firmest of the "rape, molest, jail time, or divorcers" in the group here have got to see the double standard here. Why can drunkenness be an excuse to have no responsibility for the wife but not the husband?

 

Come to think of it, I think the husband should get some balls and kick his wife to the curb for allowing him to be put in this predicament where all he was trying to do was mix in and have some fun at HER office party, and she goes and gets all sloshy and gets him in all this trouble.....after all, a wife should look after her man at a party and make sure he's comfortable and doing ok!!! I find this unforgivable that the wife would do this to him and if it were me, I'd divorce her. :mad:

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and this by EVILMJ ......

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"I have seen lots of people over do it at a party, but their SO managed to get them home without getting mauled by their boss."

 

... more ridiculous affirmation that it should be ok to lose total control over your bodily functions to the point that you are not aware that someone is "raping, molesting, or assaulting " you because you have a "protector". What happens if your "protector" puts you in a room to sleep it off, goes back to have a beer with the boss, and none of the funny business happens......"that you know about"!!!

 

My point, in case it is still escaping many of you, is this: you can't go around blaming everyone but yourself for things that happen to you if you ALLOW yourself to be so vulnerable. If you get drunk, drive home and on the way kill someone, who goes to jail? You , or the friend who should've taken your keys??? (psssssst...it's the one who was driving drunk) were they both wrong, hell yeah, but the buddy isn't going to spend his next few years behind bars, you are. You make decisions everyday and if you choose to drink til you lose consciousness, you can expect nasty things to happen.....it doesn't make those nasty things ok.... but it makes them more likely to occur, so please no more ridiculous backrubbing and soothing of a woman (or man) who puts themselves in harms way. They all screwed up, now live with it.

 

Yes the guys were way wrong, but that has never been disputed by myself or anyone else in this thread. But some pretty ridiculous things have been said which just are way off base.

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one more to further illustrate the lack of credible thinking here.......

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"you can sugar coat it anyway you want...rape=rape=rape....molest=molest=molest!!! "

 

and then in the same post a few sentences later....

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"The next time he may allow this person or some other one to actually rape her..."

 

"actually rape her"???...wait a second.....I thought you were so dead set on the fact that it WAS rape and molesting the FIRST time????

 

....now your going to the "dark side" and agreeing with ME that it wasn't at all a rape/molestation. :eek: again either it was or wasn't....I say it wasn't and have never fluctuated....I see politics in your future..... :lol:

 

disclaimer: I in no way support the neglect/abuse/violation/or any other wrongdoings of/to anyone regardless of the situation, however I refuse to support anyone's denial that they are not inherently responsible for their own actions. I also keep things in perspective, did I mention that?

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tribbles said:

Without this I might have stopped cuz I do agree we aren't going to view this situation eye to eye and the best we can do is agree to disagree. But it sounds like you are mixing responsibility for alcohol abuse with responsibility for what her husband allowed. Two different wrongs, IMO, but both wrong. Not even equal in wrongness, what he allowed I would rate higher on the wrongness scale. I do think both are wrongs that can be learned from and the relationship can survive. And that is purely our opinion.

 

I agree with what you are trying to say, and agree that they both need to work on their relationship (ha bet you didn't see that one coming :lol: ). I guess what gets me upset is when people try to place the blame on a victim because he or she had too much to drink. Yes they do have a responsibility to themselves to try not to get that incapacitated, but we all know that from time to time for what ever reason it can happen. I just think (and I am not so pollyanna in my views to think this is reality in any way shape or from) a person should be safe enough to know that if they are going to pass out, that the people they love, call friends or work with can be trusted to find them a place to recuperate with out fear of rape or molestation.

 

Yes she made a mistake. Yes hubby made a mistake and yes the worst offender in my book is the boss for being such a sleezebag. my point is that this kind of activity is not acceptable under any circumstances. I am not saying she should divorce the guy. I am saying he needs to own up to what happened, take his lumps, and then maybe they will take steps to see what can be done to repair the damage (depending obviously on where her line is, he definitely crossed my, but obviously each one of us has a different tolerance level).

 

So it's okay that we have a difference of opinion. I don't think the world has to agree with everything I say.

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I think what you are not seeing here is the fact that no matter how much you drink, or what state you are in, it does not give anyone the go ahead to assault you or molest you in any way. I am not saying that we should promote drinking until passing out, I am saying we need to place the blame where it belongs, on the more heinous action, the boss being allowed to manhandle her while she was incapacitated.

 

If we went by what you are saying, we could say someone who is raped while unconscious should be held partially responsible for the attack because she got that drunk. Sorry but there is no situation where this kind of activity can be approved of or allowed, regardless of the mental state of the person at the time of the activity.

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THEMONSTER... just to clear up one thing then I am done with this post....

the statements of rape=rape=rape.....molest=molest=molest....

 

that is not saying they they are one in the same....rape is rape no matter what.AND molest is molest. You either are or your not one of the two.There is no grey erea in this.. It is kinda like being sorta prego! you either are or your not. and saying because she was drunk it isnt molest isnt much of an excuse for what happened. All (or most)of us at one time or another have drank to much and should assume that our SO or our friends would watch over us...it is called trust.

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If we went by what you are saying, we could say someone who is raped while unconscious should be held partially responsible for the attack because she got that drunk. Sorry but there is no situation where this kind of activity can be approved of or allowed, regardless of the mental state of the person at the time of the activity.

 

Um, no, I didn't read it the way you did. The victim is not to be blamed, but I would hope the person who was raped might learn that bad things can happen when you are unconscious and not to do it again except after assessing how safe the situation is. The world is not a safe place...we all know that.(???) My point here is that they all need to learn from this. Even the wife made the mistake of feeling safe unconscious and maybe she wouldn't do that again....I sure wouldn't! Mistakes do not equal blame, IMO.

 

As for themonster making true personal attacks, I don't see it that way BUT I have seen others (on a different board) take attacks against what some see as the logic in their posts personally. When feelings on a subject run hot, showing the lack of logic (that might be seen that way by another poster) FEELS like an attack and it's pretty hopeless. So others don't see it as a personal attack, maybe there is a different way to phrase the way themonster's logic is different from other posters? (I know, kid gloves are boring but there has to be a way to show your view of the logic posted without more than one person seeing it as an attack...I struggle with making my view understood without anyone feeling attacked).

 

EvilMJ I did rather hope we would be able to at least see a few areas here we agreed on. Communication takes work to fine tune each item and even just understand for sure where the other person is coming from. While we disagree in some, it's not surprising we can agree in others. :)

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Tribbles,

 

My point behind this statement is that another poster felt that she should have responsibility for what occurred while she was unconscious. I don't completely agree on that point. What she did was get too drunk..and that's it...unfortunately bad things can happen, too true. The sad part is that her husband allowed this to happen. It is a touchy subject that I am sure a lot of people feel strongly about.

 

The reason I mentioned person attacks (and this goes for both sides of the argument) is I feel that what was being said was deeming to others. It is okay to disagree but it is not okay to tell people that there arguments are ridiculous, and unreasonable. There is no need for that, I think we can all have a good conversation without tell other people they are wrong in their beliefs. I completely respect your opinion, and wholeheartly accept that it may not be the same as mine.

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Many years ago I lived in a London apartment with about eight other singles who were trying to be able to afford living in the city.

 

One Saturday night there was a party. A big, burly, guest (not a resident) got drunk and beat the shit out of our resident non-violent hippy because he looked at the burly guy's girlfriend's ass. He then threatened the guy with the broken end of a wine bottle, which he smashed on the coffee table. The lug's girlfriend managed to get him to put down the bottle and leave just before the constables arrived.

 

The next day the brute was full of apologies as was his girlfriend (who seemed to shoulder more of the blame than he did.) :rolleyes:

 

Both he and his girlfriend maintained we should understand and forgive him because "he was drunk" and his mother had died some weeks before. He was still angry with me (because I called the authorities) and was "looking for" me. I was easy for anybody else to find, but he never did...

 

Sorry, but the fact is that anyone who drinks enough not to remember or to pass out is at least partially responsible for what happens while in that state of diminished capacity. Nobody forced the guy to drink and no one urged him to beat the hippy up.

 

On the other hand, a man who would have sex with a woman while she's in such a state is scum of a lower order, in my opinion.

 

"Should-a-dones" don't count and the best action to take, for all involved, is to control the alcohol intake.

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Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty

WOW!!

 

I have been following this thread but not have posted much since the beginning.

 

I think good points were made on both sides and no matter how you cut it there are no winners in this situation, but it did spark a good debate and allowed all sides to be heard.

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The whole point of view some of you share on this thread is that the wife should take no responsibility in this scenario. The ONLY way that point of view can be correct is if it is, in fact, acceptable to pass out to the point of unconsciousness due to voluntary actions, in this case excessive drinking, and expect nothing bad to ever happen.

 

If this is truly what you believe you are not thinking correctly....sorry....it's just that simple. No matter how badly you feel for the wife (or any other in a similar situation) there is no way to believe that had she retained even a hint of consciousness that this would have happened. Just an ounce of awareness and she certainly would not have accepted the advances of the boss. Right?

 

So in the spirit of assuming we most certainly should all come to agree on this most obvious point, it should then be easy to point out that the wife MUST take some responsibility for what happened. This doesn't make what the two guys did ANY less repulsive, they still had NO business doing what they did. And YES, what they did WAS way worse than anything she did(she didn't really "do" anything, but I'm referring to her bad judgement in passing out unconscious). But in many of the posts she has been defended to a fault and these poor judgmentally based actions have been as well....The point that I have been apparently unable to make(until now?) is that to rid her of any responsibility is promoting that it is ok to be out of control and go through life making poor decisions and just assuming that everything is going to be ok. Everything is not ok, obviously!!

 

At NO time in any of my posts have I even hinted that the actions were ok, even though it has been said that I have. I have explained this previously but some continue to read and selectively remember the parts they want to remember.

 

If this doesn't clear things up completely then I feel our world is far worse off than I give it credit for...

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The monster.

 

I am going to end this argument with this comment.

 

I agree with you in the sense that she should not have gotten that drunk, yes we are ultimately responsible for our actions. I feel that these men have done something that should never have been done.

 

I will not tell you that if you believe an opinion is different than mine that you are not thinking correctly. No one was attacking you, we only asked that these spirited discussions do not get offensive to anyone. (and in this I do not mean only you, this applies to all of us who post)

 

I am glad that everyone was appreciate of the arguments from all sides of this conversation. I hope we can continue to carry our discussions in this manner.

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I have read thru a lot of the responses...and it is not a good thing it happened, however I am under the impression Bossman would have snuck back and did it anyway, hubby or not... :nono:

 

My first rule of everything is never get so wasted I can't take care of myself..after all Mr. Midnight is not my Daddy...and he deserves to have fun too...

 

But I think what happened was a Animal House moment with 2 men with very bad judgement on all parties involved...another example of what does happen in the vanilla world while they are blasting us on Dr. Phil :lol: He should have not done it...the boss opened himself up to a sexual harassment suit when he asked...

 

One more reason not to overdrink anywhere!

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Vespertine said:
He believes this is sexual assault. Period. He also said that even if the husband gave the boss 'permission', it doesn't make it any less of a sexual assault. The husband doesn't own his wife's body, so his permission means jack squat. It's her body, not his. She decides.

 

Mega dittoes - up here in the frozen snowy that's a class C felony, punishable by up to forty years in prison and a lifetime on the sexual offender registry.

  • Only the victim can consent to the touching
  • No actual penetration need to occur
  • Touching for the purpose of sexual gratification is considered sexual assault

 

Try explaining them apples at the next office party or shareholder's meeting.

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Even if she gives consent, if she is SO drunk that she doesn't know she is consenting the person supplying the drinks AND doing the molesting will probably have some very significant legal issues. Alcohol can be used as a date rape drug, just because it is traditional doesn't make it right [or legal].

 

Would like to hear from the person that started the thread what the resolution is. He stated somewhere that he was going to bite the bullet and tell her, would be interesting to hear from him, or better yet her, what the current status is.

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ok.. I am going to say just this... only she can allow herself to remain a victim about this... no matter what 'side" you are on. On the other hand, she can take charge of herself and become a survivor. Only you can let someone make you a victim... no matter the relationship.

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