Would you want to know?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Reading this thread about getting a swing partner pregnant got me to thinking about a bigger question.

 

If you (or your wife) got pregnant and you had been swinging, would you want to know if it was yours or someone else's? Or would you just assume it was yours?

 

Would you have paternity testing done on the child? If so, and the child turned out to be fathered by someone you had swung with, would you tell them? What, if anything, would you expect from them?

[CB_n_Red 16]

If Red got pregnant (still technically possible, even though she is 49), I couldn't possibly assume it was mine - it's 20 years since the big V

 

If it happened I'm not sure whether or what we might say to the potential father(s). Something we would discuss if the occasion arose.

[rachchris1855 15]

This is very interesting... in fact, I am 22 weeks pregnant and my husband and I were fairly new to swinging when I did get pregnant! The third time we were with a couple that we had been playing with, I got pregnant. Now, although it was what we consider "group sex", I did not actually have intercourse with the other man. Therefore, I know my husband is the one who did the "job" so to speak... ha ha... and he did come inside me with no condom. We discussed how we were somewhat relieved that there was no official penetration from the other guy. If there was, then a condom would have been necessary. But still... the thought in the back of our heads would have been there... asking if maybe it was him... When we first found out though, we discussed it in detail and we would have assumed that the baby was my husband's, not the other guys.

 

The other couple does know I am pregnant. I don't know if they put 2 & 2 together and realize that the conception happened when we were with them. We didn't bring it up and they didn't ask. I don't think they were concerned about it and we have no worries either. We have stopped "playing" with them and everyone till we are done with the pregnancy and the baby is born and are trying to be patient...lol. It's good to fantasize though!

[Gorgegon 17]

If my wife gets pregnant by someone else, we tell the father that he had a child, obviously after the appropriate tests were done. However the child will live with us like our own children. We feel obligated to confess the truth to the genetic father not with the intention of getting money from him but to make him decide if he wants to have a relationship with someone that has his own blood, in the early years maybe passing as his or her “uncle” or “godfather” until he or she is old enough to understand the paternity issue. (probably I didn’t explain this well Julie, English is my second language).

 

If I get another women pregnant I will certainly like to know that I had a child, however I think the mother should decide if she wants to raise him or her, if not, we will take care of our kid the same way we are doing with the ones we have now. If she wants to keep the child and she allow us to visit him I will be happy to be the “uncle” or “godfather” from out of town. But if the couple don’t want us near them, we have to respect that but we would create an education fund from elementary to collage and definitely he or she will not be left out in our will.

 

What I wouldn’t be able to accept is if I was told that I child of mine was aborted. That is why we are thinking very seriously on getting me the vasectomy done because I can not control how the other couple will react in a situation like this also keep in mind that this is not typical conversation for swingers when you are trying to hook up with another couple. Or is it ?

[Sweet_Candy 54]

One of my fears is my wife could get pregnant while swinging. I've had a vascetomy and have been tested to be sterile. My procedure was 4 yrs. ago after our second child. We've discussed this issue and have agreed that we would use the "morning after pill" if we should progress to intercourse with another couple. I can say honestly I would not love this child as if it were mine. If my wife decided to keep this child it would end our marriage and she knows this is how I feel.

[wtxcpl 16]

Other than the moral question, how about the legal one?

IE, you tell the "father" and later he decides to get custody, then what?

[bear_and_babe 68]

When we were in a exclusive relationship with another couple we did have to think about this. My husband has the V, the other wife has her tubes tied, so no worries there. But the other husband was not fixed and I am on the pill. We had a case where I was on antibiotics and if you don't know, some antibiotics can cancel out the pills effectiveness. Bear and I talked about it and we decided that if I got preg. then the other couple would have never known about it. I have health issues and would not be able to carry it to term anyway, so we would have to abort.

 

Please no flames, this is just what we would do for our situation.

[RNDNV 16]

Jeez Julie, talk about a scary hypo! What are you trying to do, scare the folks out of playing....

 

Actually, the legal and ethical permutations here are quite interesting.

 

As a general rule, if we are talking about a married couple, most state's have laws that say children born during the term of a marriage are presumptively the husband's. Over time, if the husband takes on the "role" of father (thereby supporting this legal presumption), then he might never be able to avoid his status as "father" in a later divorce action, and therefore be obligated to pay child support just as if the child were his own even with proof that paternity is not his (because of the prior swing encounter).

 

If the couple is not married, then things get more interesting, because the legal presumption doesn't kick in because the parties chose not to avail themselves of the benefits and protections of the institution of marriage. So let me run with this hypo: couple plays and gal gets pregnant from other guy. They decide to keep the child as their own, and over a course of years raise the child as the parents. They later break-up, and gal gets custody of child and wants child support. Guy counters, "not my child," and of course, paternity test confirms the same. Generally, a court would not award child support to this mother. If she tries to chase the "real father" for child support to help her raise this child, this guy can argue that she is "estopped" from collecting any child support from him because he was left in the dark by her concerning paternity when she chose to raise the child with the other guy who was her boyfriend.

 

Now these are just two tangential hypos stemming from the original post, and they only discuss a couple of legal angles, and don't even touch upon the interpersonal ethical issues at play in Julie's hypo.

[wtxcpl 16]

If she trys to chase the "real father" for child support to help her raise this child, this guy can argue that she is "estopped" from collecting any child support from him because he was left in the dark by her concerning paternity when she chose to raise the child with the other guy who was her boyfriend.

 

I guess there is an exception to every rule (or maybe just dumb laws here in Texas). An old school chum of mine found out he fathered a child 12 years prior and was ordered to pay BACK child support!

[djjwp 129]

Having had both a Father and a Dad, I will add this.

 

Father was a great guy, used to watch him chase my mother down the hall with a sweeper hose. He died when I was 12.When I was told, I rolled over and went back to sleep.

 

My Dad walked on water. He was 20 years older than my mother and raised me from 12 to when he passed away when I was 28.

 

Point here: sex does not make a parent, love does. I have a vasectomy and if the wife got PG, we would raise the child with no issues and love it as our own as it would be. The other “dad” would be informed and what relationship he has will be up to him. To keep strife down, we would leave telling his wife up to him as he may not want her to know; his call.

 

We hope to never have this issue as our standing rule is No V, No play. There are too many folks out there to choose from to play with. Those not taking the simple step of protecting all involved do not play in our playground.

[bunnyrabbits 17]

Having been through this (my wife has had a child from a play partner) , it was difficult to accept at first. When our son arrived, I grew to love him just like my other children. This was a difficult time for us, but we got through it.

 

We did tell the father. He really didn't want to have anything to do with this situation. I do worry that he will come back one day and want to be a part of his life. But if that happens, I know that I will always be "daddy".

[meandher2go 17]

we are afraid of this happening too. I could never love the kid and wont even try to. she might feel different so this causes us a problem.

 

i have had a vasectomy so i know im safe, but she is scared of getting pregnant and rightfully so. we think we will only play with V-safe guys (condoms regardless) or soft swap with guys not v-safe from now on. she doesnt wanna go on the pill anymore especially since she doesn't need it with me.

 

and to answer the question, I would obviously know it wasn't mine..

[EvilMJ 65]

Having been through this (my wife has had a child from a play partner) , it was difficult to accept at first. When our son arrived, I grew to love him just like my other children. This was a difficult time for us, but we got through it.

 

We did tell the father. He really didn't want to have anything to do with this situation. I do worry that he will come back one day and want to be a part of his life. But if that happens, I know that I will always be "daddy".

 

I think that there is nothing more admirable than loving someone else's child as your own, regardless of the circumstances of their arrival. I think it takes a big person with a big heart to open themselves like this.

 

I have been reading posts where people say they could not love this child and it makes me sad. It is not the child fault, they are innocent little beings who did not ask to be born and arrived because two people chose to swing. It is not all the wife's fault or responsiblity, you chose to play as a team and the decision to have and raise this child should be made as a team.

 

We did have this scare once and we agreed to raise the child as our own if I was indeed pregnant. Luckly I was not. I would certainly tell the father as I think he has a right to be involved in some way if they choose.

 

It might be hard to explain though as hubby has had a vasectomy

[Sweet_Candy 54]

I think that there is nothing more admirable than loving someone else's child as your own, regardless of the circumstances of their arrival. I think it takes a big person with a big heart to open themselves like this.

 

I would tend to agree with this in most cases.

 

I have been reading posts where people say they could not love this child and it makes me sad. It is not the child fault, they are innocent little beings who did not ask to be born and arrived because two people chose to swing. It is not all the wife's fault or responsiblity, you chose to play as a team and the decision to have and raise this child should be made as a team.

 

Yes we play as a team and as a team we are not wanting any more childern.

We have our family and as responsible adults we are willing to take what steps are neccesary to keep it the way we planned it. It also takes a strong person to admit their weakness or inability to do something they are against. There are too many unwanted childern in our society already why would a responsible person bring an unwanted child into the world knowing they would not want it. That is a selfish and unkind act in our eyes.

[EvilMJ 65]

hey Sweet,

 

My post wasn't meant as a stab at anyone in particular and certainly wasn't meant to flame anyone either. I certainly appreciate your point of view, I may not agree with the point of view that you would not be able to love that child as your own, but I do respect it. I think what gets me upset is when people start to put all the responsiblity and burden on the wife, as if they got pregnant and therefore it is up to them to decide to keep the child on their own..etc.

 

It is such a senstive subject with so many gray areas and no definate rights and wrongs.

[RNDNV 16]

The other “dad” would be informed and what relationship he has will be up to him. To keep strife down, we would leave telling his wife up to him as he may not want her to know; his call.

 

To respond to this thought, this is what I meant by the ethical issues that people of different opinions may vary as to what they perceive their "ethical obligations" are. The choice to "inform" the biological father carries with it the possibility that the biological father may indeed want to participate in the child's life to a significant degree, and if so, it wouldn't necessarily be up to him or you guys to determine what that "relationship" would be. Should your opinions differ, it would be a matter that may well end up being decided by a court. A natural father, even under the circumstances described here, would have parental custodial rights, or at a minimum visitation rights, that would be awarded in the absence of some other good reasons why he shouldn't be involved in the child's life. In sum, I guess what I am trying to say is that the wife, providing she lets the "cat out of the bag" (which is an entirely different ethical dilemna), doesn't necessary get to dictate how the child will be raised.

[RNDNV 16]

We did tell the father. He really didn't want to have anything to do with this situation. I do worry that he will come back one day and want to be a part of his life.

 

Now here is an example of the other direction Julie's hypo can go. In this case, you have a real concern. May I be so bold as to suggest a strategy for you guys? If the biological father does not wish to be a part of your child's life, then perhaps you may wish to consult with an attorney to find out what your options are to secure your concerns. I imagine this is what you will be told.

 

If you don't receive child support from this person, which your wife is certainly entitled to receive, you may wish to contact this person to see if he would be willing to surrender his parental rights. The upsell to him of this is that he would never be obligated to pay for child support, and the advantage to you guys would be that you would then be free to adopt the child, thereby securing your parental rights. Of course, implicit in this is that if he does not wish to surrender his parental rights then you could pursue child support to help raise the child.

 

For you specifically, with each passing day you do gain a somewhat tenuous "step-parent" right that, depending on the state you live in, may be significant or worthless, whatever the case may be.

 

Now if you do get the termination, that typically should be followed up by an adoption, that way should you and yours someday in the future decide you no longer wish to be together (yeah, I know, that would never happen... but just in case...), you could preserve your own custodial rights of access to the child.

 

In sum, you would never have to "worry" again that your relationship with your son could be severed.

[bunnyrabbits 17]

In sum, you would never have to "worry" again that your relationship with your son could be severed.

 

I do not worry that our relationship could be severed. He knows that I love him and I will always be there for him. I do worry that the bio-fathers appearance could be difficult to accept. But, I have faith that if this were to happen, we would work it out.

[Sweet_Candy 54]

It is such a senstive subject with so many gray areas and no definate rights and wrongs.

 

Ditto! We agree, we've been following this thread with interest. No ill will felt and hopefully none given.

[Coupleinidaho 15]

JustAskJulie said:

If you (or your wife) got pregnant and you had been swinging, would you want to know if it was yours or someone else's? Or would you just assume it was yours. Would you have paternity testing done on the child? If so, and the child turned out to be fathered by someone you had swung with, would you tell them? What, if anything, would you expect from them?

 

Granted we have not taken that next step from fantasy to real life, but we have talked about this type of situation at length. Neither of us would want to continue the pregnancy if we didn't know 100% that it was our child biologically. In today's day and age, the old "won't tell anyone" ploy doesn't cut it. If the child ever has medical issues, it WILL eventually come to light that the child is not the product of the two of you. That actually happened to a girlfriend of our's (not the swinging, her mother had an affair). Of all places, she found this out during a college biology course, in which they worked with blood types, DNA and genetics. She was devastated, not to mention her non-biological father. If you proceed with a pregnancy that could be the product of an encounter with a man other than your husband, you WILL be opening a pandora's box down the road, with great emotional damage to the child, or adult if it surfaces later. It's just not worth the risk for ALL parties involved.

[Coupleinidaho 15]

RNDNV said:

As a general rule, if we are talking about a married couple, most state's have laws that say children born during the term of a marriage are presumptively the husband's. Over time, if the husband takes on the "role" of father (thereby supporting this legal presumption), then he might never be able to avoid his status as "father" in a later divorce action, and therefore be obligated to pay child support just as if the child were his own even with proof that paternity is not his (because of the prior swing encounter).

 

That's not entirely accurate these days, I know this because my soon-to-be-wife's sister happens to work for child support in my state. While in the process of a divorce (where child support, who provides medical insurance for the child, etc, is finalized), if the husband ever feels that he is not the biological father of the child in question, he pays a simple $177 (per child) for a paternity test that the agency sets up. If it turns out that the paternity test excludes him as being the biological father, presto, no child support, etc. Granted it may be a little more difficult years after the divorce, but all you really need is a decent attorney and an order for a paternity test, which would not be that difficult to convince a judge to do if you explain the swinging aspect of your past relationship.

 

 

Quote

If the couple is not married, then things get more interesting, because the legal presumption doesn't kick in because the parties chose not to avail themselves of the benefits and protections of the institution of marriage. So let me run with this hypo: couple plays and gal gets pregnant from other guy. They decide to keep the child as their own, and over a course of years raise the child as the parents. They later break-up, and gal gets custody of child and wants child support. Guy counters, "not my child," and of course, paternity test confirms the same. Generally, a court would not award child support to this mother. If she tries to chase the "real father" for child support to help her raise this child, this guy can argue that she is "estopped" from collecting any child support from him because he was left in the dark by her concerning paternity when she chose to raise the child with the other guy who was her boyfriend.

 

First off, from your hypothesis, did they have a paternity test to begin with to confirm he was not the father? The only limitation is that once the child legally emancipates (usually 18 or 19 if attending high school, but depends by state), you cannot go after the biological father. One other thing that you may not realize, is that if the mother ever is a recipient of assistance (be it medical/medicaid, food stamps, or AFDC), and she is not living in the same household as the father of the children, she must list the father or possible fathers (in an attempt to obtain child support from the father to reimburse the state for the assistance expended). Child support takes it from there, and if the most probable man says it's not his, genetic testing is ordered. If he is excluded as the biological father, then orders go out for each one on the list of possibles until they find the bio dad. If it turns out that she is not being honest about these possible fathers, her assistance is sanctioned (stopped). My wife's sister told us some horror stories about guys finding out that one or two of their kids are not their's until the parties get divorced and the children are in their teens. Ack!

 

She's even gone as far as saying that paternity tests should be mandatory at birth, as it would save a bunch of time, effort and emotional devastation. Considering that 10-20% of all children born are not biologically the husband/partner of the couple (saw that quote on this board, from a anthropology book I think), might be a wise action. I know they have or are attempting this in a few states, Texas being one of them.

[Coupleinidaho 15]

djjwp said:

Point here: sex does not make a parent, love does. I have a vasectomy and if the wife got PG, we would raise the child with no issues and love it as our own as it would be. The other “dad” would be informed and what relationship he has will be up to him. To keep strife down, we would leave telling his wife up to him as he may not want her to know; his call.

 

Your life story is quite touching. The only problem is that your situation is a bit different than the one presented. Your Father passed away, and he was your biological Father. Your Dad was a stand-up guy who came into this knowing that he was not with your mother at the time of conception. Most men (real men) do not have issue with being a Dad in that situation. On the other hand, most men would not want to rub their wife's belly knowing that the bun in the oven is not of their making.

[michelle101 15]

Alright! That's it. I'm already tied...The Mr. is getting snipped. I find this thread way too scary. Don't want to deal with it at all. Can't say what we would do until we were in that position, and I don't care to find out. I'm hoping on prevention.

[EmpyreanPleasur 18]

based on the original question, yes I would want to know who the father is if there is a possibility it was not my husband. I'm sure we would tell the other man if he was but I know we would have no problems raising this child!

 

Darn scary situation with all the possible complications, but it IS a risk you take when you have sex.

[tribbles 490]

I think knowing the bio fathers family medical history is important and thus someday telling the child (when he/she becomes an adult) is a MUST.

 

Glad we are both fixed.

[Coupleinidaho 15]

EmpyreanPleasur said:

based on the original question, yes I would want to know who the father is if there is a possibility it was not my husband. I'm sure we would tell the other man if he was but I know we would have no problems raising this child!

 

We're curious, would you feel the same way if it was the other way around, namely that your hubby impregnated the female of the other couple? If the woman carried the baby to term, you would have to realize that he would be spending time with her and the baby, are you comfortable with that whole situation? My Mrs. wouldn't. Sharing sex is one thing, sharing something as intimate and life altering as a child is another thing entirely.

[GerdOEvert 51]

We have two children. Both of them are ours.

 

If we had had an "accident" and become pregnant while "partying" we would have had an abortion.

 

There is no way you can really raise a kid, unless you adopt one, that is not your own. There are enough problems, issues, and fine points without including a stray father.

 

Perhaps the one exception, in my mind, is if you cannot impregnate your wife, and you have a friend who is amenable to swapping, swinging, or whatever.

 

Not even remotely a question for us, and we did not have to face the issue.

[95mustang 15]

Well, I debated on wether or not to reply and obviously choose to.

 

My husband is actually my second husband and I had a child with my previous husband. Now both men are good "fathers" but my husband is daddy. My ex will never be daddy. I don't know exactly why it happened this way, but my husband took a more active interest in my son while my ex took a more active interest in parties.

 

However, to answer the question: I don't have an answer. My husband and I have decided to soft swing first. As I can get pregnant but he had the V. I think that it is easy to say that you would have an abortion, but unless you have actually done that in the past, you have no idea about how you would feel about it until you actually had to do it. I have and it was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. And I most certainly would not do it again. My husband loves my son with all his heart and treats him no differently than our son together.

 

To the couple that actually had this happen to them I think that "RNDNV" gave you some great advice. A great example of this would be: If for some reason the wife in your marriage were to pass away, the Biological father could then come and demand custody. At that point you have no legal right to the child, you would end up separating brother/sisters and father/child when you could have legally prevented something in that case. My ex won't turn over parental rights, even though we told him he could still have visitation and just wouldn't have to pay child support. He said no so we filed some papers saying that should either of us pass away the other one's family has legal right to visitation. This is the reason for us to soft swing, we have been in this situation and it is scary, not to mention that I don't want a child with anyone other than my husband. Creating a child is one of the most loving acts a couple can share. Children deserve to be loved and treasured and not something that creates panic and anxiety. I personally would like to have another child, but my hubby doesn't so we have put the discussion away for awhile. But I would beg anyone in this situation to please get legal papers on file as soon as possible to protect your rights and your child.

 

Mrs. 95mustang