Frustrated & Feeling Left Out

[seriously 16]

My wife and I are relatively new to this lifestyle. We took our first plunge only about a month ago when we finally went to a club. The first night (we went on a Friday and the following Saturday) we hit it off with a guy who was there as a single. The vibe was really good so we invited him home. The two of us worked on my wife well into the wee hours. Unfortunately, while I enjoyed it, I never really got "closure" that night. After a while I started to get tired and gave up on the possibility of an orgasm though they both had a very nice time.

 

On the second night, the Saturday, I thought, "Ok, tonight is my night to really have some fun". That is, my turn to have sex with someone new. yay! Well of course, the vibe was not as good as the previous night, plus we were both a little worn out. So once again, I'm feeling a bit left out in the cold- though admittedly we had some super awesome sex Saturday morning.

 

Now a few weeks later, being the freaks that we apparently are , we are each feeling a bit more open and have been flirting lightly with certain friends and acquaintances. And in the past few days my wife's single, very yummy, best friend has voiced some interest in playing around. Last night she came over and they ended up giving me quite a show (actually she's here now and they're probably playing...I'll catch up in a few minutes). My wife says that she is not ready to have a man directly involved though the friend has given me some positive signs. Me and the best friend have yet to have a really candid conversation about the boundaries. While I respect the best friend's wishes of course, this is leaving me a little frustrated with the situation. There has also been some suggestions that maybe they should just play alone together (which I letting them do at this very moment). Not getting any attention is starting to bug me! Darn it! I want some stranger (novel) sex! Am I crazy?

 

To top it off, my wife has put the breaks on any of my other possibilities that I've been pursuing more on my own, though I've been very open and honest with her about them. So I'm frustrated and beginning to wonder whether this is only about her pleasure and not so much about mine.

 

Any advice?

[CA91709 15]

Mr. CA putting in two cents here...

NOT having taken the plunge yet (me and the Mrs.), all I can write is some of the advice I've read in this Forum. A couple that plays apart has to have a pretty solid relationship to keep things together. Many couples only play as a team, some not only in line of sight, but within reach as well. If Mrs. CA and I ever take the leap, We'll definitely stick together!

 

From reading your post, it sounds like you and your wife gave a rebel yell and both leapt right in, damning the torpedoes not once, but twice along the way.

 

While I salute your resolve, I do wonder about your bringing in your friends so quickly. It seems a little fast paced to me.

 

I think you and your wife need to talk and you both need to take care of each other first. Just my `take' for what it's worth.

[L&R 20]

Mr. CA putting in two cents here...

NOT having taken the plunge yet (me and the Mrs.), all I can write is some of the advice I've read in this Forum. A couple that plays apart has to have a pretty solid relationship to keep things together. Many couples only play as a team, some not only in line of sight, but within reach as well. If Mrs. CA and I ever take the leap, We'll definitely stick together!

 

From reading your post, it sounds like you and your wife gave a rebel yell and both leapt right in, damning the torpedoes not once, but twice along the way.

 

While I salute your resolve, I do wonder about your bringing in your friends so quickly. It seems a little fast paced to me.

 

I think you and your wife need to talk and you both need to take care of each other first. Just my `take' for what it's worth.

 

[R here] yeah ditto's all the way on the above. You know, rules are kinda a drag but then again they are like a parachute...the two of you seen to have jumped out and maybe forgot your's. Then again this being the computer game era .....everybody loves to just jump in and start playing. You should put breaks on and make some decisions like; together, is seperate ok, Full swap only( this will insure that both of you are having your fun equally) Maybe you could get a dart board and put "the evenings Objective" in the different spots...and play accordingly...."we'll lets see Honey...looks like tonight is FMF, etc.

[seriously 16]

Well, I should say that my wife had a short physical relationship with her now best friend like 6 years ago, with my full knowledge and approval. Actually they met off a local "singles" line under bi-curious, long story. So in some ways it is not such a huge jump to pick up where they left off.

 

R, before taking the plunge we talked about it for a year. Though I've got a lot mixed/complicated feelings about this particular scenario, excited and worried about opening the door to a relationship that is more than sex.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

My wife says that she -yemmy best friend- is not ready to have a man directly involved though the friend has given me some positivve signs. Me and the best friend have yet to have a really candid conversation about the boundries.

 

I think all three of you should have this conversation about boundries. But only after you and your wife have had a candid conversation about where you really are with this.

 

Obviously we're only hearing "one-side" of the situation, but based on what you're relating to us, it doesn't sound like you two are on the same page.

 

I'm getting the vibe from you that she's not comfortable with you playing with anyone else. Is that what it feels like to you?

[Spoomonkey 421]

What it sounds like you need is a little reassurance honestly.

 

First, going to a swing club isn't a guarantee to play. You might - you might not. The last three times we have gone we only played once. Both of the other times we could have, but one week a couple who we weren't interested in kept following us around and the next week we simply weren't in the mood, even though some friends of ours were trying to "hook us up" with some couples - we just wanted to play pool. At a swing club, "your mileage may vary" as they say. Scaring up a little "novel" sex isn't as easy as declaring it "your turn."

 

Having said that, you may have opened a bit of a Pandora's box by letting an old lover into the picture. You can put the lid on it - but I doubt everyone would agree with my approach. You need to see if your wife is willing to give up the relationship and move forward into swinging together. Ask her to. Watch her eyes. Listen to her reactions. If this is really about the two of you - if she really believes that - she may be disappointed, but will respect your request.

 

I know Mrs Spoomonkey would.

 

I just don't think you're sure of her.

 

Slow her down and ask her to walk at your speed for a while. If she isn't willing to, you will know whether or not you are being "taken for a ride."

[wiscpl 22]

I see a bit of role reversely here but from what I see your still early in your lifestyle experience. If you read the board from top to bottom you would find a common theme throughout and thats communication. It's an esential part of a relationship and even more so when you are swinging.

 

Your experiences so far have been by chance so far. It doesn't suprise me that you hit it off with a single male in the first place. Single males need to be a little more outgoing when it comes to the lifestyle as they have little opportunity otherwise. Here's where you could have moved on and in the future I suggest this.

 

As far as your wife picking things up where they left off, consider yourself lucky. There are countless guys out there who would give anything for this kind of activity. The fact that your are not involved at this moment is discouraging but promising. Let your wife know your feelings on this matter. Discuss the possiblity further about your swinging seperately also. If she doesn't agree with it then you need to put your foot down and stop her activities with her girlfriend. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

[EmpyreanPleasur 18]

Everyone here has great insight and advice.

 

Realize that maybe we aren't saying you jumped into something too quickly, but that maybe your involvement is moving too fast without any real limits.

 

Everyone should have very clear limits and sometimes we have to go back and reset our limits after we've had an experience and realized that it did not work for us.

 

Also, if you are truly both ok with what the two of you are experiencing and you are just feeling left out because you haven't had "your turn" yet, you need to realize that even though it's very difficult to be patient. Sometimes one partner will have more opportunities than the other. This in our experience is most often the case for the female, especially a bi-fem who has more opportunites for herself.

[Tempest419 15]

Okay folks... this is seriously's wife. Husband's been sharing everything with me and I was more than bristled at the way things have been painted.

 

First, while the implication is that I'm fucking all the time while he watches on the sidelines, this is not true. We both went to the club two nights. We both had opportunities to get to know people. The fact is, he is more shy than me and as Empyrean pointed out, it's probably easier for outgoing, bi-females to get action. That is unfortunate for him but I do not see why I have to be strung out to dry because I'm outgoing. I cannot grab a woman and force her to fuck him, and neither can he. All you can do is put yourself out there and go with the flow. If the universe has been more returning to me, does that make me selfish, or more easy going and friendly?

 

Second--I haven't done anything without talking to my husband first. Communication lines are open. He has given me the okay. I'm not taking advantage of anyone. We have talked, and talked and talked some more.

 

Third-- as for my best friend; as circumstances turn out, it was fairly "easy" to talk to her about opening up that part of our relationship, (and might I add that what we did years ago was before Seriously and I married) AFTER I spoke with hubby at length. Again, I'm sorry he doesn't have the same type of history with his best friend, but I don't see how that equates to what he is suggesting (the part he mentioned about me putting the brakes on).

 

So here is the real rub; Seriously hasn't gotten laid by any "strange" yet. His argument is that, because I have a best friend who will also (happily for me) let me make love to her, that he needs a "girlfriend" as well, and that is where I put the "brakes" on. The fact is, Seriously has been carrying on with an older woman who is a friend of a friend for a month; I mean, she emails him personally, calls him personally, and has been mysteriously showing up at a mutual friend's house every Wednesday when he is there, and I am not. And she has been rather flirty. To top it off, he suggested that he should spend time with her by himself and go bike riding together yesterday--not inviting me, or anyone else for that matter-- developing this "friendship" (with hopefully sex soon) And while many of you guys may think this is "equality", (and as Seriously points out, if I get to fuck another "person" then he should too) I beg to differ and here is the way I see it:

 

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL--if his best male friend wants to give him a little action on the side, he is more than welcome. Go knock yourself out, honey, it will not hurt my feelings. Men might have an ass, but they don't have a pussy. I would not feel threatened by this... of course, this isn't what he wants and he didn't bother to tell anyone this.

 

I am, however, threatened by another adult female "friend" who is single and childless most of the time, who wants to just "hang out" with my husband, who doesn't even know we're "swinging." As far as I can see, she could be a black widow. What happens when she catches the flu, and poor little [girlfriend] doesn't have anyone, and hey, he should go over there.... and then the lines get blurred. Am I crazy, or does anyone else see where this is going? With what Seriously is suggesting is another adult, female love relationship (friend-love, whatever) that could easily deepen. And yes, he could potentially see this other woman as "wife" material and if she can suck a cock better than me...

 

Bottom line, I think it is a dangerous step, and if the shoe were on the other foot, this would not have even been posted here. I have not asked to contact the one-night stand guy and go to a game. I don't email with him, or call him on the phone, or hook him up with the 419 when he needs it. We are not "friends with benefits" (as husband wants with another woman) Nada, zip, nothing. In fact, I wouldn't even DREAM or DARE to have suggested such a thing to Seriously, because it is bringing direct competition to my primary relationship, and--gee-- I imagine it would hurt his feelings! And guess what--when I suggested this, he openly admitted that he wouldn't like it. Okaaaaaay.... so what he's saying is, he would be threatened if I wanted to form a fast, sexual friendship with this guy... but HE wants to do it?

 

As for my best friend--she has been around for 8 years, lived with us for six months (no sex) and knows us probably better than most anyone. She loves Seriously as a friend, loves our son, and would never want to break up our home. Everything we've done, she's been like, "Are you sure he's okay? Are you sure?" and repeated several times that she didn't want to upset him. She cares about BOTH of us. In fact, she has said that she is not opposed to involving him in the future, but that she wanted to make sure that *I* am okay with it first, and wants to develop things with me first. She wants to make sure we don't rush in and complicate things before we're ready.

 

The fact is, she is not "husband" material. She's been around eight years, slept with her before, and I don't see myself running out on my marriage for this person. Not gonna happen... I love my husband, and I love having sex with women.

 

Seriously is welcome for us to go back to the Club and try to make a "friend" there (where the boundaries are clear and open) that he would like to hook up with. I *do* want him to have fun. I do want him to experience these things, but with people we both agree on, under circumstances where things are not threatening to either of us.

 

Last but not least, I have been clear that if he is ultimately not okay with me sleeping with friend (damn, in his own house, even) then that is a rule I will abide.... but he might want to be careful what "rules" he institutes out of impatience and lack of foresight; rules he might not want to follow in the future when *his* options open up. If he were, for instance, to institute the rule of only sex with both of us with other couples... we will probably be waiting a while. I am simply not AS interested in sleeping with other men as I am women, and from what I saw, the pickins' were slim. I'm not fucking some guy I don't' like or am not attracted to just to even the score card for him. Furthermore, I'm not interested in stranger-sex as a rule. Better sex happens for me when I am in a trusting environment, and that doesn't happen in a night.

 

I could go on and on....

[CA91709 15]

Mr. CA on this post...

THAT is the most complete and fullest `other side' of the story I've read in quite a while.

 

While I hate being judgmental, seriously, you've got a son involved. It's best to straighten up now with your wife, in my opinion.

[BodyScape02 21]

Am I crazy, or does anyone else see where this is going? With what Seriously is suggesting is another adult, female love relationship (friend-love, whatever) that could easily deepen. And yes, he could potentially see this other woman as "wife" material and if she can suck a cock better than me...

 

Dearest Tempest...no you are not...it sounds like Seriously is looking for justification for what he is contemplating doing and using this board to get it. He nicely "omitted" very relevant items painting you as the uncaring and philandering spouse.

 

I would advise him to consider all he has to loose by courting this woman ( since she isn't aware of the lifestyle she is acting as an adulteress and courting your husband)

 

I am a tad ticked at him honestly... I don't know what to tell you to do... as you are communicating on every level...and he is miss communicating and self justifying ... shame on him...

 

All I can hope is, he posted it here hoping you would read it and maybe, we can surmise that he wanted you to find it. What you do with the information is up to you... but it would seem pertinent to CYA and to return to a traditional marriage arraignment until such time as the other woman is irradicated and the problem has a solution.

 

I for one think I would take the time to call the other woman and let her know... you are not welcome. But then again...I tend to prefer a confrontation to being screwed royally in silence and eventually humiliated in public. Then at least I feel, I defended myself and my territory. Cheaters tend to shun the light of day. Outing them is the only way to stop them...they thrive in secret.

 

Mr. Body and I had a single female long ago who I suspected of trying the same thing... I called her on it...she was pissed at me and he was pissed at me( I came to the board with it for advice, too) ....I dealt with the fallout and flat out asked him which he preferred- to argue the point or to preserve our relationship ? We are fine...she is gone...but we took a long time off to work it out.

 

Best wishes hon... for the record... I am on your side. He blew it with me when it became apparent how he ommitted some critical elements. He sure knows how to “spin” the story to make it come out sympathtic for him.

 

 

Ms. bodyscape02

[BodyScape02 21]

I should have picked up on (trying this post from another computer)....geeze that is another one I have to add to the red flag list!

 

There is also ( upon re-reading his post again... ) the hint that he thinks he is to be part of a ffm threesome with you and your girlfreind and is getting mixed signals...or perhaps just really really wants it and is looking for any hint of a signal and reading even the slightest nice "hello" as a signal.

 

May be ( if she is willing) a little threesome could quell his ego at not being as marketable as you. ( I agree with your analysis of shy vs gregarious...but...would add that often shy people seem to think others should "come to them".)

 

All of this may be his brusied ego at how well you are doing and are recieved, his jealousy over it triangulating into an affair with a woman who is playing to that weakness... Adulterous individuals tend to look for that opening...( I read the damn website from the other link too... it sucks...but they do it.)

 

Just free thought here hon... hoping to make sence and help and get her the hell out of the pic and you back to hunky dory

 

take what makes sence and works and disguard the rest.

[..R&M.. 15]

reading thru I can understand how you are upset about the other woman and him. But to an extent, tempest what you are doing is unfair for your relationship. You get to play with someone else and he can't. Even if you justify it as only playing with the same sex, for some people it doesn't matter if your playing with the same sex or the opposite sex you are still getting action outside of the relationship and he may feel that since you are not being 'fair' by sharing this experience with him that he needs to find someone for himself. I'm not trying to stick up for him but you kind of seem selfish, in your post, by justifying your playing by basically saying 'well its a girl I'm with and no threat to our relationship.' But to him it could be a threat no matter what because that girl can give you something that he can't give you. Am i making sense. I'm not trying to start anything by posting, just adding my $.02.

[Spoomonkey 421]

Regardless of the rights or wrongs, equals or unequals to this situation - you are both obviously not on the same page. One of you is miscommunicating badly and I would suggest, for the sake of the marriage, putting things on hold until you can both find a common ground.

[wiscpl 22]

Dito with what spoomonkey said!!!! Take a step or two back to asses the situation calmly. Grab a piece of scratch paper and write everything down and come to a conclusion that BOTH parties are satisfied with.

[Sweet_Candy 54]

Neither one of you need to be swinging at this point. You both sound self-centered. You're a couple first and foremost and it sounds as if you're acting like singles in your approach to the lifestyle. Sex is sex and it doesn't matter if it's same sex or opposite sex. Step back from any and all sex and individuals who are causing discord in your relationship. Work on your relationship before what you have is lost. From both your post there's plenty of blame to go around but we're not here to judge either of you. We read a disaster in the making. Use this time to avert this calamity and strengthen your marriage.

[EmpyreanPleasur 18]

I think it's not possible and it is wrong to try to determine who is in the right or wrong here. All I can do is offer some advise.

 

I still think you two need to clarify some limits. I would be furious with Mr. if he pursued a single woman who had no idea that we were swingers - not to mention that we don't swing apart anyway. Likewise we have agreed that unless and until we have a long time, ongoing, trusting relationship with an unattached single female, neither of us would be alone with her until we had previously agreed we'd reached that point in the relationship.

 

My point is that you may have to be a bit more specific in your limits. Yes, it is ok that he wan'ts "stranger" sex - however, does that preclude her from getting what she wants and what they have apparently previously agreed is ok? Would her relationship with her friend not be a problem as long as he "is getting his" somewhere else?

 

Swinging should NEVER be a competition between the two of you. One of the couple is ALWAYS going to be a bit more popular than the other one - and there may be times where this rotates between the two of you. Either that, or you set a rule that neither of you ever plays unless BOTH of you are involved.

 

The other thing to remember here is that sometimes we set limits that we think are perfect and once we test them out, we find there were unexpected feelings that we didn't care for - so sometimes you have to step back and reset your limits. There is nothing that says you cannot CHANGE your rules or step back and do less than you had previously agreed upon!

[Tempest419 15]

Put two hetero men into the same room naked and tell them that "sex is sex" and gender does not matter, LOL To each their own, and my boundaries with single ladies not the in lifestyle, who are looking for husbands, is my right to claim as a wife, just as it is his to tell me that he doesn't want me to have relations with my best friend.

[Tempest419 15]

Empyrean--both hubby and I have enjoyed reading your advice on many of the threads. Any advice you give is taken humbly!

 

I am relieved to hear you say that you would also not like your SO to pursue a single female alone... I guess hubby's been in the camp that "sex is sex" (as many people here also believe) and that all complications, rules and stipulations go right out the door. I have never been a black and white kind of person, life is in many shades and each situation will be taken individually. Like I mentioned... put two hetero men in the same room and say that "sex is sex" and I can imagine you will get some very loud if's, and's or but's. I guess if I did not love him then I would just not care what he does...

 

I have not taken other women off the board for him, that is ridiculous... I spent the whole second night at the club for him and even suggested that he register at adultfriendfinder.com and try to find some possibilities to pursue there til we have our son at Grandma's for a few days and can get back to the club (he declined looking through personals.) I have already spoken frankly with my best friend about a threesome, and she is even hinting that she might like to have him involved now... and even said well we'll just all need to talk before anything, which she is fine with (she is fairly liberal, sexually) my point being, if he had just wanted to stipulate this now, he will be MUCH less likely to get some strange than if he just quit tallying the score card and go with the flow of what's a direct possibility SOON!

 

We also agreed with you in that we would much rather swing with singles. People may find that strange, but I find it strange to just swap spouses in the same room, or different rooms or whatever. We want to do this *together* and this is what I'm attempting this with the best friend.... because we've also determined that we would not like complete stranger sex all the time--look at all the disappointments, the hassle, the time it takes--and sex is just better when you know a little something about them, anyway. Hubby also pointed out that our current "lovers," the guy from the club whom we both like (he was into the pagan god thing, so I'm referring to him as the Roman), and my bf, because they are single, do not have the complications of schedules and babysitters as much. Makes things less complicated! Plus neither of us are opposed to a long-term poly-amorous type relationship with my best friend... I'm sure she will be dating someone again soon and hey, who knows where that could go? And as you mentioned in another thread, taking the time to build a longer term relationship is long and tedious, but completely worth it!

 

The Mr. should be posting later to defend himself (I never said he lied or was sneaky, in fact I said we had been talking a LOT--and just not agreeing) but in the meantime, I'd like to add that we are already making plans for trying my first DP (yippee!) with the Roman towards Halloween, and if my bf makes it over to visit this afternoon (she might) I'm going to ask what she thinks about letting poor, lonely Serious at least fuck me while I eat her out???

 

Thanks to you Empyrean, would love to chat with you sometime! And thanks to everyone else, even the offended responses were helpful.

[Tempest419 15]

PS.... I should add the Mr. is verra excited about the DP (might get some practice in later tonight with my new 6-inch toy) and HE told me to invite the friend today... go figure ;-)

[EmpyreanPleasur 18]

Tempest...and Seriously...thank you. I am glad that sometimes my ramblings help!

 

I just want to clarify that though I would not want my husband involved with a single woman alone, I probably wouldn't like it if we were swapping and he developed a relationship outside our foursome with that woman either.

 

The point is, that EVERYONE has different limits. Some may seem unusual to others, but we have to work out what is right for us - like the couple that will full swap but you may not kiss on the mouth! To each their own.

 

The important thing is that sometimes what we think will work doesn't go too well on the test run and to realize it is ok to say, "hey, I didn't expect this feeling/complication and maybe we need to change that"...OR find a way to talk about this unexpected complication and what would help to work around it for both of you. I hope that makes sense.

 

As long as the two of you continue to communicate and try to understand each other, you should be able to work things out without too much difficulty.

[Tempest419 15]

Well we have been together for a total of 12 years... and there is (thankfully) still a spark between us--sometimes it gets us arguing, but we seem to always work it out. In fact.... we both feel like opening these doors (despite squabbles over definition) has made us even more attracted to each other. We are fucking like bunnies and having a great time overall. I am seeing new sides to him and feeling very, very attracted... the Mr. has been working out regularly for months now and lost some weight (as we both have) and he is just really friggin' hot! I've always noticed girls giving him the eye (and he's so funny and smart easy going) that I just want him most of the time. I think he's gotten more blow jobs now than ever. In fact, after the girlfriend left the other night (I got her off and she went home) that we had some really amazing sex afterwards that we're both still thinking about... mmm

 

We think it's been good and are 90% (confirm that honey?) having a good time, so we are excited with what's going on now.

[Guest rdy46227]

Be this too late from someone without credentials, but please take it for what it's worth...

 

1. What you have is a polyamorous situation, and swinging is not the real issue. You and your wife are each others primary partner. The gf is your wife's secondary. Note that they have a relationship which is not just sex. They have a history of years and have lived under the same roof. They have a relationship in every sense of the word.

 

2. Your dynamics of the situation demand that you have something which balances out your wife's secondary. You are looking for a sex partner(s) through swinging to try and offset your wife's relationship.

 

You aren't finding such, perhaps because your wife isn't as assisting as you need/desire, but even if you found no strings sex, it would not have the strength and weight needed to compensate you for your wife's secondary.

 

3. It appears your wife doesn't openly recognize the fact that she has a full blown relationship while you have little if anything. She's using the 'FF sex is different' argument as smoke to cover the fact she is in a relationship far beyond an ongoing sexual encounter.

 

She says that sex between two females isn't like a real relationship and that she wouldn't replace your relationship with a primary relationship with another female (i.e. replace her hetero relationship with a homo one) because her secondary is FF, and FF is not the same as MF.

 

This is flawed two ways.

 

First, the gender of her secondary has nothing to do with the fact she was a true relationship going with her gf. The issue here is her secondary poly relationship, not the sex of her secondary.

 

She could have the same ongoing intimacy with another male; you would have the same issues of her secondary relationship competing with the primary relationship. She just couldn't hide behind the 'FF sex is different' statement and you both would be directly addressing the unspoken issue of her primary relationship remaining her primary.

 

Second, she seeks to forbid you a secondary relationship by claiming her secondary isn't a real relationship, and therefore you are equal because neither of you will have a relationship. She say that you can have a bf just as she has a gf, knowing that it won't happen since you aren't bi. The flaw is her trying to squelch things by exploiting gender preferences.

 

5. You realize this is unfair, particularly since you have something that could be developed into your own secondary relationship. You feel used, and in a sense, you are absolutely right. This is what needs to be dealt with and until you do, neither of you should have a secondary relationship. In fact, you two shouldn't even try swinging (i.e. pure recreational only sex).

 

6. The arguments your wife gives about a secondary relationship with your gf changing into a primary relationship (thus demoting your wife into a secondary position) all have analogs with her and her gf, even if you won't make them to her.

 

If it was only sex for the fun of sex, no arguments of this type would be valid because each argument requires a true relationship as a premise. You are just as worried about your wife changing your relationship from primary to secondary in favor of her gf as your wife is worried about you changing your secondary into a primary (should she let you have one).

 

You want the added intimacy of a second person, just as your wife has added intimacy from/with her gf.

 

Everything is a two way street. Neither of you can have your cake and eat it too. But you see the cake on her plate, and you also see your empty plate.

 

7. While there may be communication between you and your wife, there is not understanding. Given this, she should totally break with her gf until you both understand each other and agree about the conduct of all relationships you might have.

 

8. You may be able to bring things to a better balance by forming a triad, where the relationship your wife has with her gf is as strong as the relationship you have with her gf. Difficult, though perhaps doable, but things will almost certainly not reach true equity. However, the imbalance may be small enough that you can deal with it better than you can in you current state of not having a secondary relationship of your own.

 

9. Again, swinging is not the issue here. Swing is something you are trying to use as a tool to find something that you feel is missing. It won't work, because what you are missing is relational, not purely sexual. It's not too surprising that swinging can't fill the void.

[Tempest419 15]

I think that, what we have been doing up to this point is termed a Vee... and as I mentioned definitely polyamorous with the girlfriend. I don't believe I put any smoke over that... I've always been up front that I love her.

 

But with the man that we met--and with whom we do not associate otherwise, and both hope to see again the future--wouldn't that be called swinging?

 

You are right about the swinging not being enough; we are finding as we go along that we are probably better off with something stable than one night stands. I also think that, because I am sensitive and he is more easy going, I end up putting up more boundaries than he does. It's like that in MUCH of our life together. Would that work for you and your partner... apparently not. I have always been more jealous of him (though I've chilled out more the older I get) and he has always said that he *likes* that about me. Knowing this, I think it would be stupid to disregard who we are going into this in favor of a list of rules that others believe should apply because The Online Swinger Rulebook says so... neither of us are a big fan of succumbing to the system anyway.

 

I found this funny recently... if anyone here knows anything about astrology... our combined sun sign is Aquarius (the sign of unconventionality and rebellion) conjunct Uranus (also ruled by Aquarius, the planet of unconventionality, rebellion, surprise). Our "love" is also unconventional... Venus is also in powerful relation to Uranus... basically what it all means is that we are Different, Different, Different! We are advised astrologically to keep ourselves open to encounters with others and strike our own path.

 

Also... maybe it would help to know that my GF went through a rape trauma earlier in the year. Already being bisexual, she feels more comfortable entering into sex with another "person" with a woman right now, one that she trusts. She is finding herself missing having a man, a boyfriend but at the same time she is working and attending grad school, and doesn't have a lot of time. She knows my husband and trusts him a great deal, and quite frankly I would like to "share" my wonderful husband with her to help her heal and welcome men back into her life. I have inferred that this type of relationship works out well for her at this time that she is so incredibly busy and unable to devote a lot of time to another relationship.

 

She lived with both of us for 6 months and they do consider each other friends. I have no doubt that he has a friendship love for her and that doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I have LONG had fantasies of a threesome together and told him many times how much I'd like for BOTH of us to pleasure her. We can "share" what we both love about her. He is very turned on by this I think, or else he would mind more.

 

I should also add that if this were trying to pull this off--a love relationship--with a man, he would absolutely forbid it.

 

Since we started this thread... that he and the GF had a very frank talk. I said nothing and just listened in as they talked. He told her his concerns, boundaries, etc. and she responded very lovingly and respectfully and I have to say, it worked out very well. She was very touched by his worries and found him to be "cute" and "sweet." They have also talked some more without me.

 

And... we also talked about all of us being together, and that is now a plan for the (hopefully) near future. We are taking things s-l-o-w-l-y and have already discussed that the first time, we will all participate but him just with me. Then, the GF and I have talked about giving Seriously all the attention one night soon... so things are a-brewin' I think we all agree that we just want to take it slowly. This was not about me forming something he could never be involved with, she and I just wanted to take the time to get sexually reacquainted, esp considering her rape earlier this year. We both care for her and want to be with her, so I think we are both willing to be patient and sensitive to everyone's needs.

 

Well hopefully Husband will be on here soon to help defend my ass... LOL

 

 

And as many people have advised, everyone's (as couples and as individuals) boundaries are different

[Tempest419 15]

(this post composed a couple of days ago)

Whew, it's been a couple of days since I've had time to get to the boards, with work, a two year old and the non-stop awesome sex. You got to have your priorities! .

 

First, Tempest, you so sweet. I think you might get lucky tonight. Lol! I can definitely confirm that so far having a more open marriage has been good in a lot of ways. We do seem able to talk about things more candidly and openly than ever before and not just sex. In general, the last few months have been quite a learning experience. Pushing all these social boundaries around can make the transition to an open relationship quite confusing/thrilling/emotional for us noobs as we are dealing with some strong emotions, e.g. jealousy of several varieties.

 

Second, I guess I wasn't as clear as maybe I should have about several issues. Unfortunately I'm just not as prolific as Tempest and tend to get lazy. Several of you misunderstood my intentions with the somewhat independent prospect. Let me say at this point, though, that since Tempest is not comfortable with the situation I have dropped it. However, for the sake of clarification, my hope was to bring her in for us both to form a friendship and hopefully to play with. I can see from the text that I said "me" and "mine" more than I should have. Why would I think this is a remote possibility? Well, first she is close friends with the spouse of one of my best friends. One of the only people I've told anything about this lifestyle. So it is possible she knows about our new attitude towards sharing. She and Tempest have met several times and have an amazing amount in common in terms of politics, religion, recreational drugs, etc.. Also, she has given me some indication that she finds me attractive, just subtle looks, that I have told Tempest about, yet has gone out of her way to spend time with Tempest socially, without guile as far as I can tell. So maybe I'm wrong but there might have been a possibility there.

 

Bodyscape02, the reason I had to post from another computer was due to a problem I was having starting new threads with Firefox. I discovered (I think) that it was a combination of Firefox and OS - I was trying to post from a computer running XP tablet edition. Feel free to check my previous posts.

 

As for my conclusions concerning my impatience; Actually I realized as I composed the beginning of this thread that I should essentially chill and go with the flow. I have become much more comfortable with the situation with her best friend by having a very candid conversation with Tempest and her friend about my reservations concerning intimate alone time. Now I'm feeling better, less threatened and not excluded from their relationship (for a bunch of reasons which I don't have time to write about here). I also see that building a new "fun" relationship with Tempest's best friend will take time and I'm cool with it. After all, the way we've been going at it, I'm beginning to get rubbed raw despite gallons of lube. Not a joke. So for the time being I've got nearly more strange love at home than I can take, though I do see a trip to the club in the near future.

 

-seriously

[Tempest419 15]

rdy46227-

One of the reasons I felt jealous of my wife's relationship with her gf is that we (all three) had not had "the talk" and felt threatened by a potential transition to an exclusive love relationship. Since my first post we've strainghtened things out a bit more and as I said above, now understand (and feel understood) about the situation. I think that we are both coming to the conclusion that the type of relationships we would like to form would have a more poly feel to them. Despite my comment on getting some "stange" love, which is still haunting me, there is a lot to be said for being with people you know, trust and can talk to easilly. So I am willing to let things move ahead slowly because, ultimately, it could be very nice for all parties involved.

 

-seriously

[hotblonde47 22]

I guess I'm going against the flow here but ... it appears to me that Mrs Seriously is having her cake and eating it too! My husband is extremely outgoing and I am quite shy initially but he wouldn't dream of us separating at an event and hooking up and leaving me to my own devices. WE ARE A COUPLE. We don't always play as a couple but we always respect each others feelings and wishes first! Mr Seriously, it seems to me, is attracted to someone he would like to play with. Mrs Seriously is saying "no way" while she's playing her own game. I think this couple need to back off swinging entirely until they have sorted out respect for each other.

[curiousagain 326]

IMHO, for what it's worth, I think the situation was pegged several times in the previous post. The wife and GF have a relationship and that can be as threatening to a marriage's stability as if she had a boyfriend. Tempest, it would seem you are saying your GF is not a threat to your marriage because she is a female. I have seen women leave their husband's for their female lover and I seriously doubt those two instances were the only times that has happened in the world. If Seriously was bisexual a male lover could be as threatening to your marriage as a female lover.

 

It appears y'all are working towards a solution, but what causes me to doubt the efficacy of the solution is that Tempest only seems accepting of a solution if it contains the continuity of her relationship with her best friend/girl friend. That would seem to indicate that relationship is higher in importance to her than the marriage.

 

Good luck to y'all, I hope it works out for you.

[seriously 16]

curiousagain & hotblond 47

 

Turns out that Tempest was right. It is not an exclusive relationship after all. Looks like gf will be staying late tonight, wish us luck.

 

-seriously

[Tempest419 15]

I am losing count of how many times I'm having to come onto this thread and repeat the facts that people choose to ignore about my husband being involved being the ultimate goal and something to work up to. Somebody accused me of living with her alone, without my husband, and having a relationship "in every sense of the word,"--Um, no, we had sex twice eight years ago and have been platonic friends since. I would not consider her a romantic relationship (up to this change towards polyamory) of my adult life, but perhaps a great "love".... I've also been accused of just taking mine repeatedly and leaving him out, which is not true, I haven't done anything else and do not intend to without him or his consent (which I never did anyway)... he got a nice blow job from a practical stranger at the club Friday night, which did it for him WAY better than me, FYI-- and now I'm accused of putting my friend above my marriage???????????? Praytell, exactly how did you come to that conclusion?

 

I getting three things from this board;

 

1) Many people here have no tolerance or patience for complexities of a threesome in a marriage, or for polyamory--I've seen quite a few knocks on it around here in favor of random stranger sex. According to the rules I need to let my husband fuck anyone that comes along, regardless of the complexities size, age, gender, etc. and he should allow me to do so as well. That is fine, but then this is obviously the wrong place for me at this time.

 

2)Vees or threesome situations are not swinging.

 

3) It doesn't even matter what my own spouse says about me... this is about a complete character assasination, and I'm not feeling welcome here.

 

You all have a great time--glad to meet some of you nice folks, but I think I belong on a poly board (?)

 

Peace out~

Tempest

[L&R 20]

Tempest419 said:

I am losing count of how many times I'm having to come onto this thread and repeat the facts that people choose to ignore about my husband being involved being the ultimate goal and something to work up to. Somebody accused me of living with her alone, without my husband, and having a relationship "in every sense of the word,"--Um, no, we had sex twice eight years ago and have been platonic friends since. I would not consider her a romantic relationship (up to this change towards polyamory) of my adult life, but perhaps a great "love".... I've also been accused of just taking mine repeatedly and leaving him out, which is not true, I haven't done anything else and do not intend to without him or his consent (which I never did anyway)... he got a nice blow job from a practical stranger at the club Friday night, which did it for him WAY better than me, FYI-- and now I'm accused of putting my friend above my marriage???????????? Praytell, exactly how did you come to that conclusion?

 

I getting three things from this board;

 

1) Many people here have no tolerance or patience for complexities of a threesome in a marriage, or for polyamory--I've seen quite a few knocks on it around here in favor of random stranger sex. According to the rules I need to let my husband fuck anyone that comes along, regardless of the complexities size, age, gender, etc. and he should allow me to do so as well. That is fine, but then this is obviously the wrong place for me at this time.

 

2) Vees or threesome situations are not swinging.

 

3) It doesn't even matter what my own spouse says about me... this is about a complete character assassination, and I'm not feeling welcome here.

 

You all have a great time--glad to meet some of you nice folks, but I think I belong on a poly board (?)

 

Peace out~

Tempest

 

This is terrible;

 

Since When: (1) did the rules..state you have no say in "who/what/when/where" you partner has sexual relations with?

 

(2) A TRIAD or threesome couple isn't swinging?

 

(3) Many people here (agreed) have their noses way too high in the air, but most don't really know you ...so why let them bother you..all this stuff about "red flags' and "we wouldn't swing with you" is all just ACADEMIC. In a real "face to face" they would be more interested in (a) appearance (b) how fast are you willing to "get down" and out of your clothes. The one's that ask your Handle and are you 'ON' the Swingersboard first probably would rather spend 6 months of your time getting to know you (which IMO would only lead to reasons NOT to swing with you.

 

(4) Since When is Polyamour not O.K., Yes it does "freek" out some, make other's nervous the Polyamour might "fall in love" with them. But that's silly.

 

I've always thought of the Polyamour as being "just across the street" with Utopian Swingers standing on this side (on the curb).

 

(5) Watch Your Post count....if it gets too high...some people are threatened.

 

(6) Please Don't leave......it's not a party without you!!! Besides...I'm falling N love!

[seriously 16]

For the sake of closure: Suffice it to say that Tempest's gf came over and we all three had a very erotic night earlier this week. And as you might expect I feel much less threatened by this changing relationship now. This of course leads us well into very uncharted territory ...undoubtedly there will be a few monsters but I think it will be a whole lot of fun exploring.

[Tempest419 15]

For a little more closure... be forewarned, this is probably polyamory!

 

The husband and I recently had occasion to be with my best friend, as he mentioned, and it was amazing. He always points out that I write faster, so here it goes.

 

We were discussing things that made us all feel connected--godship of our child, our eight years of trust together, and one thing led to another over a couple of bottles of wine and we started to really have a great time together. We

 

But once we got into it... it was just amazingly comfortable between us. We had earlier discussed godparenting with Macha, who would be overjoyed to raise our son should anything happen to us (hopefully not). And it was just really nice and comfortable, and Macha was in great form. We were discussing the differences among breast implants, and of course I have always insisted Macha's are as good as it could possibly get; the saline bags were put into the breast tissue, not underneath the muscle. They were a relatively full size and not abnormal looking.... and they feel fucking amazing. After Miss Hard Tits at the club, and feeling several pairs of implants at this point, I asked Macha if Husband could feel hers... Macha said sure, and he began to massage her breasts. And amazingly, like in my fantasies, it turned me on!

 

I don't even remember the sequence of events except that we all three ended up in our king size bed and doing all sorts of things we didn't plan on. He went down on both of us, I remember that. I also remember seeing her pulling and twisting on her nipples and asking him to help her out up there while I ate her out. I had been going down on her after which I came up to her face again, and she whispered to me that she was comfortable with whatever I wanted. I asked her if she wanted to share a penis?-- she answered yes, and soon we all switched positions. Husband was on his knees in front of her as she laid reclined back on a mound of pillows. I felt like I was in some strange but warm bizarro world as I wrapped my hand around Husband's cock and pulled him up to her opening. I used the tip of it to slide up and down her opening until I got to the just the right spot... and I guided him slowly into her. They began to move in rhythm, and I saw the both of them in a new light--both of them sexy, without me. How they looked while making love from the outside view. It was incredibly erotic. I insisted that they kiss--how can they be so close and such good friends and fuck without kissing?--and they asked again to make sure I was okay with it. I insisted again and when their lips met, things began to deepen--both the kiss and the penetration--and I found myself mesmerized by the movement and sounds. Her face looked relaxed and pleasured, and I loved the sight of his strong thighs against her lighter skin. I found myself leaving the room for my eyeglasses so I could see better. I took him in after her, and later on, was entirely jazzed by taking turns giving him a blow job. There was something that turned me on about our close girl-friendship allowing us to share a cock; him dipping inside her, then inside me... it was a huge turn-on.

 

It's been about two weeks and she will be back over tomorrow night--we make no promises and go with the flow, but the more she knows I'm okay with it the more turned on to him she is, and I cannot WAIT to watch them fucking again...

 

Til then~

 

Tempest

[seriously 16]

Good god, this is complicated- the poly thing that is, seriously.

[blackcreme2003 15]

This is a great thread, and by the far the longest one I"ve had read so far. I wish you two the best.

[Tempest419 15]

Hi everyone~

 

thought I'd give an update to things... after the break up of the sexual relations with my bf, things have been rocky for a few weeks. I mentioned in the other thread I started on that issue that the Husband has been feeling out of sorts with himself, and confused I think, about our involvement in the lifestyle.

 

As for the friend, long story short, she and I are working things out as friends rather well, considering, and I'm blessed I was able to know our long-term friendship would survive no matter what happened in that sexual arena of our lives. She is joined by our son, whom she loves and he is very attached to, and we are picking up the pieces and finding we still have so much else to talk about it's becoming less and less of a big deal as time goes by. I am generally feeling good with everything... I pretty much went into it with the attitude that I am a big girl who can enjoy fantasies and I don't make a habit of regretting things. I like to think that I like who I am and every experience makes me that person, and even if it turns out different than you expected (which is bound to happen) there's always something to learn. So... I am still turned on by the idea of the open relationship as long as we're together. I would like to entertain the idea of another couple if we could find one, but he is REALLY turned off by all this. He keeps likening it to some bad crab legs he ate when he was a kid... they were bad and he didn't know it... all he remembers is that it tasted great going down, but he sure felt like hell the whole next day, And I'm going... was it really that bad? I've even suggested some libido pumping supplements, but alas, I think he likes his mood.

 

Anyway... I asked him to at least entertain the idea of going to the club for exhibitionism and voyeurism purposes, which is still a big turn-on for me and was for both of us at the beginning, so that I can fulfill that "kink" in my nature... I even suggested web-camming with other couples on the internet which is relatively "safe" and he was reticent about that. To be honest.... we are at a stand-still because of some mental/emotional blocks that we can't seem to get to the bottom of, so he's feeling a bit deflated while I'm turn-on at the drop of a hat and raring to go To me, a lot of ice has been broken and I think under the right circumstances with the right couple, some exciting things could happen.

 

I think Mr Tempest (Seriously) will agree I made some rational arguments about not shutting the door on the whole thing, and I'm hoping this is a passing mood and with patience he'll come around and be the hot number he was all up until the "break-up." I keep reminding him how, a few months ago, I kept asking over and over-- "Are you sure you want to open this door? Because I hear the ladies really end up liking it." (courtesy of these boards, of course, )

 

So... does anyone have any encouraging words to share in our predicament?

[Spoomonkey 421]

So... does anyone have any encouraging words to share in our predicament?

 

I think you need to take it slow - be patient. I think having followed this thread from the beginning as well as reading the other, it is obvious that there have been some pretty serious communication gaps along the way. Working to get on the same page is far more important than working to get to your next adventure.

 

He may come around - he may not. The biggest issue is not his libido, it is his level of trust. That is a hard thing to rebuild - but you can start by assuring him that he is far more important to you than swinging is; so much so that you would gladly forget all about it if it meant harmony in your marriage.

[Tempest419 15]

I do know what you mean about the communication gaps... hopefully the Mr. will be on here to clarify his feelings on things a bit. We've had some good conversatiosn on things and clarified a lot. I think I assimilated the experience emotionally/mentally a little faster.

 

One thing is that he kept reminding me that there were issues we both had sexually with my gf that we were both expressing before this communication/poly/mishap thing happened. There's a lot there, but suffice it to say that while it was fun and comfortable and thrilling in it's own way... the bottom line is we would like to be in bed with someone who show a little more interest and enthusiasm. In less than two months of experiences with her, we both looked up to catch her watching television over her shoulder. How sexy, eh? Tho when we asked she always said things were fine. We had begun to chalk it up to incompatible sexual styles when this happened, and it was the Mr. who kept reminding me there were other women in the world.

 

Flash to current... on Christmas Eve, I almost got on the boards and posted an update then. We invited my bf over, we hadn't seen her much lately and her mother didn't come back into town for the Holiday. She hasn't been seeing the last guy anyway b/c they had a bit of a disagreement, and had lamented being really turned on and no where to go. So while I'm on the phone inviting her, in broad daylight while we're shopping, he says to tell her "we bought 3 bottles of Beujolais" (newsflash: that's what we always drank when we got together for a threesome) and my ears perked a little, but I told her anyway.... later that night after she calls and gives us an arrival time, I asked him about his comment. He came around to saying that he wasn't "necessarily opposed" to sleeping with her that night... I said you want to wet YOUR noodle, then, and he said "no, I want you to want to sleep with her," at which point--okay NOW I'm confused--but I entertain the thought and see where he's going and ask, "Why?" He said something to the effect that he wished I could've been cooler about it with her, that he misses her, etc. Now, flashing back to our bedroom issues with her in the first place, I say (thanks, Vespertine) "So I should just ignore my feelings and be an orgasm donor for her?" Of course, he said NO and that ended that... sort of.

 

Also, he bought us a membership to SLS for Christmas, so I think I have some room to be confused and thinking that he does want to still pursue this.... but when I bring up rather tame ideas, he just turns them down and yes, I'm a little bored with the vanilla sex. And I observe I'm getting mixed signals.. and people can say anything that the want, but when it comes right down to it, any old wise person or good psychologist will tell you to observe what someone does, not what they say, especially if the are incongruous.

 

And to be honest, like I projected my feelings of poly onto her, perhaps he has been projecting his "How could I not have know what you felt about her" onto me when perhaps it's him who is feeling more for her. And he pointed out the thread on the boards that linked hormones and emotions, and the idea that the longer you have sex with someone, the more you'll feel for them... and that makes him trepidatious. I have again said well I did let you spend alone time with her, I was open to poly, so were you beginning to have deeper feelings than maybe you told me? He says that's ridiculous.

 

Phew! Hope that helps...

[Tempest419 15]

One thing I might add... I think going into this, since my interests were originally in bi-women, he was perhaps not prepared for the interest I have developed in being more sexually involved with men. I have really enjoyed being in the MFM with our friend and since the things with my friend, my interest in bi-women has waned a bit and my interest in other men has increased.

[Chicup 42]

Wow.....

 

Somehow I missed this thread at first, and just finished it all (including the other thread). The mistakes made are obvious in hindsight, but it seems the problem may not have been you and your husband being on the wrong page, but you and your bf not being on the same page, and later her not wanting to hurt you by saying she was dating. Obvioiusly there is more and its not worth rehashing what you are now painfully aware of.

 

In an earlier post you said you wanted more than just having sex with no conection (though how the single male fits this I don't know) and that somehow having sex with a couple would be less connection with your spouce than a threesome.

 

We have found just the opposite for the same reasons. We WANT a connection with the other people, we want to like them, we want to care about them to some degree, and we have in fact found it with couples. The added benifit was that we didn't have to worry as much about one falling for the other, no lonely singles, no threat.