Racism and Swinging

[BiloxiCouple 695]

This past week my dad was visiting and doing some volunteer work for the Katrina relief effort here. My father is old south and his father was older south. Which means some of their remarks I do not appreciate regarding other races and sometimes other "types" of people in general.

 

I believe in our family it takes a generation of time and understanding to change certain mindsets about certain things as one of the things discussed above. My grandfather's generation wasn't good concerning racism and other things, my father's wasn't as bad, I have improved and hopefully my children will be better than I was, hence generations of time for change.

 

Now to the point of where I may be going. I hope!

 

I try to respect people for who they are.

 

Would you go to to an event/party/club/website if there was blatant racism? I can respect people for what they want to do. But do I have to put up with it? Do I walk away or do something about it? Do I want to support it? NO!

 

This is the hard part for me. I have found a couple of sites that are white only groups as stated in their ads. I understand not possibly discriminating against these sites and letting people make their own judgements.

 

I have tried to be very open minded over the years and most of the time I do well at it and it bothers me to see some parts of the world and this country still so closed minded.

 

This is a very open minded site and the people who come here as a whole are also. But there are still some.....

 

If I didn't make sense here or need to make some clarification please let me know. I don't like pointing fingers in a negative manner, I think I just tried waving in the general direction and let you make up your minds and some food for thought.

 

Julie, Thanks for having such a great site to allow us to do all this on. I know it takes alot of your time and you also have alot of volunteers that put alot of time in also to help each one of us out. I have learned alot here and hopefully passed on a little information that I may have learned over the years also. Come down and visit when things settle down. The Mississippi coast needs some fun and cheering up.

 

Billy

[EvilMJ 65]

I personally have nothing to do with any club or group that has any sort of discriminatory policy.

Even through the club that I attend seems to have a predominatly white membership, that is not their choosing, there are a few black and asian members, we even have members wtih some disablities (one of the hottest guys there is in a wheelchair). My best swinger friend is black, but that's not why I chose to play with her, she just happens to be a very fun attractive person.

 

I did have a friend in the swinger crowd who I chose to distance myself from becuase she had very racsist close minded opinons. She says she only plays with people of her own race, and would never play with anyone in a wheelchair. Sure she is entitled to her own opinon and preferences, but I take no part of that.

 

It is all personal choice I suppose but I want nothing to do with any club or person who discriminates on the basis of race, colour, culture, disablities...etc..you know the list goes on. If I can't change it, I certainly do not want to support it.

[CB_n_Red 16]

We have declined to play with people who have been overtly racist. We just don't feel comfortable faced with such brainless bigotry and I (Red is more tactful) would find it hard not to indulge in some bigot-baiting in such a situation.

 

No club that I know of here in the UK discriminates at all. If we found ourselves in one that did we would leave and make it clear why they would get no more of our money.

 

The club we attend most has quite a mixed clientele (but mostly white and some Asian - that's Asian as in sub-continent - British English terminology) and that suits us just fine.

 

CB

(Proud of his Arab nieces)

[txduo2000 18]

I do not consider myself racist; but my husband is, to a degree. He doesn't "hate" people of different races and would never join a supremicist group or participate in any hatemongering, but he does prefer that we keep things within our own race group as far as swinging goes.

 

I understand, being in the south, and being from a town where the old KKK was headquartered in Texas, how the past generations can perpetuate racisim, and I understand how those who want to break free of those restraints can and do make a difference in generations to come. That sort of happened to me and my family. My parents, grandparents all used derogatory terms and have negative attitudes towards different races, particularly blacks. I raised my kids differently and they are much more tolerant of different races ... so much so that my daughter only dates black guys ... much to my husband's and my ex-husbands's dismay. And I will be honest ... I do wish she would branch out and not be so restrictive in what she finds attractive, because she has absolutely no interest whatsoever in white guys.

 

Part of the issue with my husband is that (and I have announced, publicly, that I have had an affair during my marriage) when I cheated on him, it was with a black guy, so that only worsened his negative feelings toward black people, and especially black men in the lifestyle. Honestly, it really makes no difference to me ... people are people. But because of my husband, and the things that have occurred in our past together, I respect his decision to keep play restricted to those within our own race. It is too sensitive an issue to try to change.

[Carol_Danny 17]

Since we live "way up North", we have experienced very little racism, and have never had to make the choice of attending a "racist" club or not. We were brought up differently up here, and I have never acted nor done anything that could be construed as racist. I can say that we would not visit a club that we knew to be racist as that is very counter to our liberal beliefs.

 

We do "swing" with people of different races and colours, and don't think much about it. But truthfully, there are very few Black swingers up this way, and I think we know them all!

 

We do have friends that aren't comfortable having sex with people of other races, but they aren't really racist. To them it is a matter of personal choice, no different than size discrimination. I can't really agree or disagree with that, as I don't have the same feelings about it. These swinging friends of ours are good friends with the same Black friends that we have, and have no problem with friendship and socializing. They just aren't into sex with them.

 

-- Danny

[Chicup 42]

This is a good question and I don't know the answer.

 

The clubs we attend are mixed race and we don't have a problem with that but if there was a great club that had a 'whites only' policy I can't say for sure we wouldn't attend. Most people who would have such a stance tend to be mouth breathers we wouldn't want to play with so the club wouldn't be 'great' and we wouldn't attend.

 

So what I am saying is that we don't have a problem with racism in swinging (sexual attraction doesn't have to be color blind) but most people who are racist are people who's company we do not enjoy.

[intuition897 2,179]

Since we live "way up North", we have experienced very little racism, and have never had to make the choice of attending a "racist" club or not. We were brought up differently up here, and I have never acted nor done anything that could be construed as racist. I can say that we would not visit a club that we knew to be racist as that is very counter to our liberal beliefs.

-- Danny

 

I grew up in an all white very small town. I knew black people existed, but didn't see one until I was in high school! I was very insulated as a kid. One would think the result of this would be intolerance, but in fact it was just the opposite. There was no opportunity for anyone to impress any negativity towards other races on me. It just never came up. So now, I just find different ethnicities very interesting. I prefer the appearance of some over others, but it is pure preference, not tainted by the opinions of others.

 

The other result is a kind of naiivite towards racism. I am continually shocked at the occurrences of bigotry in this day and age. The stupidity of it is nothing short of mind-boggling. Even a good friend of mine surprised me with her racist ideas. We were talking about sex and the topic of sex with black people came up. She said she would NEVER do that! I asked her why, and she didn't really have an answer, just that she would never do it. I think she might have even shivered a little. :rollseyes I just have no time for small-mindedness like that.

[Zoe&Wash 93]

This is the hard part for me. I have found a couple of sites that are white only groups as stated in their ads. I understand not possibly discriminating against these sites and letting people make their own judgements.

I'm not clear on this - how is it bad to "discriminate" against a discriminatory group?

 

I sincerely believe, with every libertarian fiber of my being, that the deicision to participate in any act or activity, or the choice to associate with any person or group, is one that is best left to the individual.

 

The good news is, you know about them before hand. Would be a bitch if mid-orgy you asked, "Gee, this group seems a little melanin deprived, don't you think?"

 

If you choose not to associate with them, it ain't discrimination - it's decision.

I have tried to be very open minded over the years and most of the time I do well at it and it bothers me to see some parts of the world and this country still so closed minded.

So . . . To hell with them? This isn't your problem, it's theirs?

 

Don't try to open your mind up so much that your brain falls out.

 

W

[Dolphins524 15]

Living in the south & growing up in a family w/ some strong racist views, I could see that happening around here.

 

For me, it would depend on why they were only wanting white people to attend. It could be that the hosts or organizers of the party & the people in their circle of friends just aren't attracted to people outside of their race. In a case like that, I wouldn't see a problem attending. Now if it's some white supremesist group of swingers, I'm thinkin' we'd not be attending . I can't really speak for Mrs. Dolphins on this one because I've never asked her, but myself, I've seen plenty of women from different races that I've thought were very attractive (as a matter of fact, a certain member of this board whos name starts w/ a P has quite an attractive avatar ) . We're trying to be as open minded as possible going into this. Not what I grew up w/, so it's kind of different in a cool way.

[Mrs Spoomonkey 118]

This is the hard part for me. I have found a couple of sites that are white only groups as stated in their ads. I understand not possibly discriminating against these sites and letting people make their own judgements. Billy

 

This is easy for me..... NO!! I would not post, or place an ad on a site that in their advertisements stated "whites only". Nor would I go to a club that did. To me that screams "White Supremacy" group and quite frankly those people scare me

 

Our club is a mix and depending on any given weekend you could have more of one ethnic group than the other. It's no big deal to us. I have never played with a black male or couple, have been attracted to a few but the timing and circumstances didn't work out. So it's just a matter of attraction for me and I don't want any part of excluding people for their race.

 

Mrs Spoomonkey

[HappyPeople 17]

Would you go to to an event/party/club/website if there was blatant racism?

 

No, because one half of us is a mixed race person.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I know the clubs of which you speak, and for the record they are listed in our club listings here. I've had a few question me for doing so, saying that I should remove the club OR remove the statement of racism from their listing.

 

My policy on listing clubs here, is pretty hands off, if it's a club it can be listed. I can't pick and choose. A club that states that they only allow one race, to me is no different than a club that only allows "pretty people" or "people of size". That said, there are clubs that are racist from the other extent (black only). Private membership clubs ALL have the right to pick and choose who they allow in.

 

That said, I personally am glad that they state it up front, and I wish more of them did (I know there are some that don't). Doing so, does allow people to make the choice for themselves ahead of time, rather than going to club only to discover that the club ideology completely conflicts with their own (perhaps not even realizing it does until after several visits and a good chunk of change).

 

Would I visit one of these clubs, definately not.

 

Another question for you, are you bothered by clubs that for other reasons discriminate? Does it piss you off to see a black only club and realize you can't go? Or some other club whose policies prohibit you from attending?

[HappyPeople 17]

Another question for you, are you bothered by clubs that for other reasons discriminate? Does it piss you off to see a black only club and realize you can't go? Or some other club whose policies prohibit you from attending?

 

No, I feel equally as sorry for other discrimators as I do race discriminators.

[De and Ci 19]

Wow, 2 clubs in Mississippi-whites only, I'm so shocked-of all states-Mississippi! Who would have thought! Me espousa is from Mexico City, she gets pretty dark in the sun. Does that mean we can't get in? hmm

[Dolphins524 15]

Wow, 2 clubs in Mississippi-whites only, I'm so shocked-of all states-Mississippi! Who would have thought! Me espousa is from Mexico City, she gets pretty dark in the sun. Does that mean we can't get in? hmm

 

 

Mine's part Cherokee Indian & she gets pretty dark, also. Guess that kinda would rule us out too if you 2 were. All I can say is they wouldn't know what they were missing . Come to think of it, I think I might be just a little bit Indian also . Oh well, piss on 'em if they don't want us.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Wow, 2 clubs in Mississippi-whites only, I'm so shocked-of all states-Mississippi! Who would have thought! Me espousa is from Mexico City, she gets pretty dark in the sun. Does that mean we can't get in? hmm

 

I think the worst part is (and this may be why those who thought the info should be removed from the listings thought so) is that seeing that two clubs in one state (where if I remember right there's only 3 or 4 listings) discriminate, it tends to give you a bad view of the whole state/ area (especially if you aren't from there). Those of us who live in the South and don't still carry around racist issues have to work that much harder to make others see that we aren't all that way. But, on the upside, we know where to find the open-minded folks - at those one or two clubs that are left.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Those of us who live in the South and don't still carry around racist issues have to work that much harder to make others see that we aren't all that way.

Dito

I will also add that I've lived in enough different regions in the country (Northeast, Northwest, Southwest) and the South is not the only region that has these type of neanderthals floating around.

While the state of Mississippi certainly has their share of it, they are not the only state in that category.

[DBL D 120]

I am absolutely Non-racist...I think. I have been attacked physically by a black racist though. I hope to experience every kind of woman except those that are quite overweight.

 

The one thing I have concerns over is the statement that I hear a lot that "Once you go Black, you never go back." Now, I think that is racist (not to mention a little scary) and I have a problem with those who say that.

 

Otherwise...we be cool.

 

Fem D has never mentioned wanting to be with another race except recently she mentioned that she's been thinking of what it would be like to be with a black person.

 

It all sounds interesting to me.

 

Male D

[JnCC 24]

Would you go to to an event/party/club/website if there was blatant racism? I can respect people for what they want to do. But do I have to put up with it? Do I walk away or do something about it? Do I want to support it? NO!

It depends on what you mean by "blatant racism" If I usually enjoyed the club and the people I met there, I probably wouldn't let the fact that it was an all-white club stop me from going. While I don't object to other races at a club per se, they're not the reason I go...it's to have a good time, period. In patronizing the club, I'm not "supporting racism"...I'm supporting my right to freely associate with those of my choosing, and not to be bullied by politically-correct, "feel-good" social banter.

 

That said...the club that I most often attend is racially diverse.

 

I have tried to be very open minded over the years and most of the time I do well at it and it bothers me to see some parts of the world and this country still so closed minded.

I know what you mean. Every year in our city they have a "Black Family Reunion." It's become a very popular event in the black community. I've never heard of any black people boycotting it because it was a BLACK Family reunion. I'm not sure if that's because they're all racists, or they just like to have a good time among people of their own race...the same as the white folks at the swing clubs you were referring to.

 

Just for the record, I think there's a BIG difference between choosing to socialize primarily with those of your own race, and "Screaming White Supremacy," but again, that's just my opinion.

[HappyPeople 17]

I know what you mean. Every year in our city they have a "Black Family Reunion." It's become a very popular event in the black community. I've never heard of any black people boycotting it because it was a BLACK Family reunion. I'm not sure if that's because they're all racists, or they just like to have a good time among people of their own race...the same as the white folks at the swing clubs you were referring to.

 

Just for the record, I think there's a BIG difference between choosing to socialize primarily with those of your own race, and "Screaming White Supremacy," but again, that's just my opinion.

 

For me, the line is when they say "XYZ Only"... Events of special interest - such as "Gay Night", "Goth Night", or "BBW Night" (or maybe the Family Reunion you spoke of), where a particular interest group is highlighted but others are not banned from attending doesn't bother me. It's when the word "ONLY" is dropped that it becomes offensive.

 

Just for the record, I think there's a BIG difference between choosing to socialize primarily with those of your own race, and "Screaming White Supremacy," but again, that's just my opinion.

 

It's a fine line really. I guess it depends on where your heart is and only you know that.

[JnCC 24]

For me, the line is when they say "XYZ Only"... Events of special interest - such as "Gay Night", "Goth Night", or "BBW Night" (or maybe the Family Reunion you spoke of), where a particular interest group is highlighted but others are not banned from attending doesn't bother me. It's when the word "ONLY" is dropped that it becomes offensive.

I hear what you're saying, but what word would you use?

 

It occured to me as I was responding to that post, that there are a number of things that I don't personally care for in a club. I don't particularly care for smokers, country music, single males, toothless females, Buffalo hot wings or cheese balls. All are to be found in significant numbers at our local club, and yet I continue to attend (with a friend). If we won't boycott a club that allows known carcinogens into the air we breathe and known dickheads into the space in which we fuck, how can I say with any degree of credibility that we'd boycott one that won't allow black people?

 

I would prefer that the club remains open to all races. (For one thing, they keep the DJ from playing too much country music) But if the owner were to change that policy, I'd probably still attend, at least until it stopped being fun.

 

Looking at it another way...what if the owner changed the membership policy to "Couples ONLY" Would couples who had no particular interest in single males to begin with suddenly stop going in an act of protest? Hell no! Is that because they have some sort of "bias" against single males? No...they just don't give a shit one way ot the other, as long as they're having fun. They'll stop going when the fun stops, for whatever reason.

 

Going to a sex club and getting naked with strangers is a very sensitive thing. Doing it with your wife or husband even more so. I tend to give people a LOT of lattitude in choosing what kinds of people they'll explore this with. If that means restricting it to those of their own age, social status, or skin color, so be it. My guess is that eventually, most will realize that swinging is like any other emotionally intense activity...the color of a persons skin matters little to the enjoyment of that activity. When that happens, they'll migrate to the clubs where they have the most fun, regardless of the color of the members.

[HappyPeople 17]

Buffalo hot wings?

 

What could you possibly have against Buffalo Hot Wings?

 

I am seriously offended... This means war,

[HappyPeople 17]

But seriously, if you are going to compare allowing in black people and smokers... I hope that even you find that completely ridiculous.

[JnCC 24]

But seriously, if you are going to compare allowing in black people and smokers... I hope that even you find that completely ridiculous.

Of course it's ridiculous. When going to a restaurant, I'll always ask for the "non-smoking" section. I wouldn't think of asking for the "non-negro" section.

 

The point is, there are always going to be people who aren't comfortable in the company of certain other people. Those choices are as likely to be based on personal habits, religous beliefs, or lifestyle as they are on race. If I boycotted every business which has some policy or business practice I didn't agree with, I'd probably be living in a commune up in Amish Country.

[CB_n_Red 16]

Okay.... I've just got to ask - what are "Buffalo Hot Wings"? The term conjures up a remarkable mental image but I'm the reality is rather more mundane!

 

CB

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Buffalo Hot Wings is to the British as to what their Chips are to us?

 

It's chicken wings and legs fried and covered in a hot sauce. The hotter the better for some.

[CB_n_Red 16]

Ah! Thanks! We just call them chicken wings..... Had some last weekend - very hot and very tasty!

 

The joys of being separated by a common language.... (to quote Winnie).

 

CB

[Chicup 42]

The other result is a kind of naiivite towards racism. I am continually shocked at the occurrences of bigotry in this day and age. The stupidity of it is nothing short of mind-boggling. Even a good friend of mine surprised me with her racist ideas. We were talking about sex and the topic of sex with black people came up. She said she would NEVER do that! I asked her why, and she didn't really have an answer, just that she would never do it. I think she might have even shivered a little. :rollseyes I just have no time for small-mindedness like that.

 

Neither my wife and I are sexually attracted to black's. This isn't a planned thing, and if sexual attraction is due to some racist overtones so be it as its buried pretty deep. If we don't have a problem with interracial clubs, we don't have a problem with interracial swinging, we don't discriminate in our daily lives, but we are not sexually attracted to people based on a physical trait that makes us small minded? :rollseyes

 

To us its just the physical attraction, same as any number of other characteristics we might not be physically attracted too. I personally am very attracted to that white white red headed Irish skin that looks like someone is glowing from a distance. Why? I don't know, I am 1/2 Irish and have very fair skin but nothing like that, nor does anyone in my family. I know a LOT of people who don't like this trait, while for me its a major turn on.

 

Sex is a funny thing, what makes one person bi, the next gay, and the next like red heads best?

[txduo2000 18]

I personally am very attracted to that white white red headed Irish skin that looks like someone is glowing from a distance. Why? I don't know, I am 1/2 Irish and have very fair skin but nothing like that, nor does anyone in my family. I know a LOT of people who don't like this trait, while for me its a major turn on.

 

 

Chicup ... what state/country is this bed you are currently under? I am a redhead ... not the pasty-white variety, but I don't tan ....

[CB_n_Red 16]

I personally am very attracted to that white white red headed Irish skin that looks like someone is glowing from a distance. Why? I don't know, I am 1/2 Irish and have very fair skin but nothing like that, nor does anyone in my family. I know a LOT of people who don't like this trait, while for me its a major turn on.

 

Irish???!!! That's Scottish! Should know - I'm married to one just like that and most of Red's ancestors are from Ayrshire and Glasgow. All the kids seem to have inherited it as well.

 

On the other hand, of course, there has always been a lot of population shifting between Ireland and Scotland.

 

Got to add, it works for me as well

 

CB

[intuition897 2,179]

Neither my wife and I are sexually attracted to black's. This isn't a planned thing, and if sexual attraction is due to some racist overtones so be it as its buried pretty deep. If we don't have a problem with interracial clubs, we don't have a problem with interracial swinging, we don't discriminate in our daily lives, but we are not sexually attracted to people based on a physical trait that makes us small minded? :rollseyes

 

To us its just the physical attraction, same as any number of other characteristics we might not be physically attracted too. I personally am very attracted to that white white red headed Irish skin that looks like someone is glowing from a distance. Why? I don't know, I am 1/2 Irish and have very fair skin but nothing like that, nor does anyone in my family. I know a LOT of people who don't like this trait, while for me its a major turn on.

 

Sex is a funny thing, what makes one person bi, the next gay, and the next like red heads best?

 

Sorry chicup, I guess I should've clarified a bit more. Of course your preferences do not make you small-minded, but my friend's preferences DID stem from a prejudice against blacks. She's been my best friend since we were, like, 3 years old, but I had no idea she harboured such a negative attitude! While my upbringing was not exactly what one would call liberal, she had a very strictly religious upbringing, her parents not even allowing her to attend school dances. So I suppose if these values were ingrained in her from early childhood, one cannot fault her entirely for that. I just found it really sad that she might base her opinion of another human being on what she had been force-fed all those years. I had hoped that being the adult that she was when we talked about this, she would have formed her own opinions by then. Guess I was wrong.

[Chicup 42]

Irish???!!! That's Scottish! Should know - I'm married to one just like that and most of Red's ancestors are from Ayrshire and Glasgow. All the kids seem to have inherited it as well.

 

What the Scotts won't tell you, is that Scottland was colonized by the Irish. They even know the clan names (I've long forgotten) that did it. When I mention this to the Scotts I know, even those who have never BEEN to Scottland, they get very tight lipped, as if I just spoke a dirty family secret.

 

Go ahead, tell your wife she is Irish and see what happens

[Carol_Danny 17]

For one thing, they keep the DJ from playing too much country music

 

Okay, I am a prejudiced bastard, and I will admit it publicly!!!

 

I'll never go to a swing club that plays Country & Western music!

 

-- Danny

[JnCC 24]

Okay.... I've just got to ask - what are "Buffalo Hot Wings"? The term conjures up a remarkable mental image but I'm the reality is rather more mundane!CB

The reality is far, far worse than you can imagine.

 

"Buffalo Hot Wings" is a way of presenting one of the most inedible parts, the wings, of what is arguably one of the most "foul" of fowls, the chicken, for human consumption. They're prepared in a toxic concoction of grease, garlic, and other so-called "herbs and spices" and served, usually in bars, to drunks and people who are under the impression they can "sing karaoke."

 

The comparison to "Fish and Chips" as bar food does not apply to Buffalo Hot Wings. The main ingredient in "Fish and Chips" is FISH...not flippers, gills, or fins. If you wanted to create comething comparable out of fish, you'd begin by deep frying fish tails in a hellish mixture of crankcase sludge and drain opener until no possible nutritional value remained, then serve them in a dimly lit pub to patrons who can barely see fit to stagger to the 'loo.

 

BTW, the term "Buffalo" in "Buffalo Hot Wings" refers not to the origin of the meat, but to the city in upstate New York where some pub owner first got the diabolical idea for serving to human beings a part of the chicken that most well-nourished mammals won't eat.

[chocco 15]

I think that 99% of the comments on this board suggest that the "lifestyle" really does have a lot of really good people in it. Seems to me that the true racists make up a very small percentage of people here. I'm an African-American male who likes all colors. I don't get offended if a couple has a preference for white only, just like I don't have a preference for a couple who only wants blacks. While I don't understand it, I know that I don't have to understand it -- that's the definition of personal choice.

 

For those who think that racism is alive and well, I challenge them to read this board...for the most part, racism is dying.

 

Just my two cents...

[Carol_Danny 17]

I personally am very attracted to that white white red headed Irish skin that looks like someone is glowing from a distance.

 

Red-Headed Irish! Blasphemy! That's just impure stock mixed with Saxon and Norse blood! BAH!

 

Everyone knows that the true Irish (the Celtics) were of darker complexion and had dark hair!

 

See! There can be racism even among whites! My family (the really old ones who are barely alive now) absolutely hated Red-Haired Irish as they are considered an abortion to the Celtic "race". These same old guys could care less about anyone else (well, there is that English hate thing), but they used to drum the history of the Irish into all us young 'uns. Luckily, my parents generation didn't toe that line, and neither did we.

 

I personally think true Redheads are the hottest women ever!

 

-- Danny

[Chicup 42]

Red-Headed Irish! Blasphemy! That's just impure stock mixed with Saxon and Norse blood! BAH!

 

Everyone knows that the true Irish (the Celtics) were of darker complexion and had dark hair!

 

See! There can be racism even among whites! My family (the really old ones who are barely alive now) absolutely hated Red-Haired Irish as they are considered an abortion to the Celtic "race". These same old guys could care less about anyone else (well, there is that English hate thing), but they used to drum the history of the Irish into all us young 'uns. Luckily, my parents generation didn't toe that line, and neither did we.

 

I personally think true Redheads are the hottest women ever!

 

-- Danny

 

I'd like to see a genetic tree of this just for fun. I've known far more red haired irish/scottish than Norse. I'm sure there is more going on than just viking invasions

 

Of course there is now proof that the Romans had outposts in Ireland as well.

[txduo2000 18]

I'd like to see a genetic tree of this just for fun. I've known far more red haired irish/scottish than Norse. I'm sure there is more going on than just viking invasions

 

Of course there is now proof that the Romans had outposts in Ireland as well.

 

 

I am of Scottish/Irish decent and I have NO idea what you two are babbling about.

[Carol_Danny 17]

We're just fooling around with this topic. The original Irish were all dark haired and of dark complexion. So some of the old-timers think any fair skinned Irish are of "mixed race" and prejudiced against them. Of course, the blood line was mixed over a millennium ago, so there really are no "pure-blooded" anything anymore!

[Chicup 42]

I am of Scottish/Irish decent and I have NO idea what you two are babbling about.

 

Don't worry, I'm into anthropology, this stuff fascinates me

[CB_n_Red 16]

What the Scotts won't tell you, is that Scottland was colonized by the Irish. They even know the clan names (I've long forgotten) that did it. When I mention this to the Scotts I know, even those who have never BEEN to Scottland, they get very tight lipped, as if I just spoke a dirty family secret.

 

Go ahead, tell your wife she is Irish and see what happens

 

Ah yes, I'm well familiar with that. Even the name Scotland come from the name of an Irish tribe, known to the Romans as Scottii (IIRC). They crosses the Irish Sea during the 4th and 5th centuries AD, I believe. Hmmm.... long menories we have! The process has been working in both directions for longer than recorded history.

 

Of course the reality is that the British Isles, like the rest of Europe (and the rest of the world) contains a real mixture of "races" (for want of a better word). My own surname occurs all over, in England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales (plenty of them in the rest of the English speaking world as well). Just goes to prove how much mobility populations have always had. Anecdotal evidence suggests that there can't be so many people in these islands who can't claim ancestry from all the various parts. I know I can and I know Red can. She certainly wasn't annoyed when I mentioned the Irish bit!

 

Of course, in spite of English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish ancestry I'm still a Yorkshireman at heart ;-)

 

And yes, I am interested in genealogy as well as linguistics and anthropology!

 

One very plausible explanation for the ethnic situation in western Europe suggests that a native, dark-haired population was overlaid by a fairer haired population of Indo-European speakers, though we have to be careful not to confuse language with ethnicity. All very complex and all very prone to become problematical (politically at least).

 

Okay, I'm waffling.... Time for some breakfast!

 

CB

[CB_n_Red 16]

I'll never go to a swing club that plays Country & Western music!

 

Maybe we're fortunate - I don't know any clubs here that play Country and Western music....

 

CB

[CB_n_Red 16]

These same old guys could care less about anyone else (well, there is that English hate thing), but they used to drum the history of the Irish into all us young 'uns. Luckily, my parents generation didn't toe that line, and neither did we.

 

Good for them! And you!

 

I have noticed that the old antagonisms (English/Scots/Welsh/Irish) do seem to have stayed more current in the colonies than they are here now. It often strikes us Europeans that it is strange how emigrants worked hard to retain their original national identity after they had left, rather than embracing their new one. It does seem odd to me hearing someone with an American accent describing themselves as Scottish or Irish or Italian or anything else! (Note: this is just an observation - not trying to wind anyone up!).

 

I personally think true Redheads are the hottest women ever!

 

I'll second that! That really is Red in the avatar. Her hair is still naturally the same colour that it was when I first met her (even though she is 50 now). Just me that went grey....

 

CB

[CB_n_Red 16]

I'd like to see a genetic tree of this just for fun. I've known far more red haired irish/scottish than Norse. I'm sure there is more going on than just viking invasions

 

Putting together such a genetic tree would make unravelling the DNA sequence look like child's play! But yes, much more going on than Viking invasions (which haven't been forgotten around here either!).

 

Of course there is now proof that the Romans had outposts in Ireland as well.

 

True.... those Romans have a lot to answer for, including shifting a lot of population around!

 

After all, what have the Romans ever done for us? Apart from.....

 

CB

[Spoomonkey 421]

I'm an African-American male who likes all colors. I don't get offended if a couple has a preference for white only, just like I don't have a preference for a couple who only wants blacks. While I don't understand it, I know that I don't have to understand it -- that's the definition of personal choice.

 

Not to get lost in the "Great Irish Hair Color Debate" (or is it Colour???), this guy had some interesting and I would say rather refreshing thoughts.

 

Thanks for posting this, chocco!

 

Spoomonkey

 

PS - My heritage is Viking... That plays a little into Irish history...

[CB_n_Red 16]

Definitely "colour"......

 

CB

[Pepper & Drew 384]

I can't really speak for Mrs. Dolphins on this one because I've never asked her, but myself, I've seen plenty of women from different races that I've thought were very attractive (as a matter of fact, a certain member of this board whos name starts w/ a P has quite an attractive avatar ) .

 

Hmmmm....wonder who that is

 

Anywho, I wouldn't begrudge anybody who went to a club that discriminated. Nor do I think it's all that bad if a club states it upfront...after all, like others have said, I'd hate to find out after I got there. If people don't want to play outside of their race, that's their choice. This is sex, not the job market. There's plenty of swingers who do chose to play interracially that we're certainly not going to sit at home on the weekends and cry about it.

 

Pepper

[vancpl 15]

We live in Vancouver Canada and think this is about egalitarian a place as it gets. WM/AF is the most common combination, while Black Male/White Female is also becoming increasingly common. For whatever reason, their novelty (we have very few people of African descent in western Canada) the hipness of black culture - black men are the hottest dates around here.

 

We wish the rest of the world were like canada.

 

"...you may say I am a dreamer,

but I am not the only one..."

[HappyPeople 17]

We live in Vancouver Canada and think this is about egalitarian a place as it gets. WM/AF is the most common combination, while Black Male/White Female is also becoming increasingly common. For whatever reason, their novelty (we have very few people of African descent in western Canada) the hipness of black culture - black men are the hottest dates around here.

 

We wish the rest of the world were like canada.

 

"...you may say I am a dreamer,

but I am not the only one..."

 

I was thinking of moving to Vancouver a while back and spent a lot of time looking into it. It really does seem like a nice place to live; I am envious.

[Dolphins524 15]

Hmmmm....wonder who that is

 

 

Pepper

 

 

Opps. Guess that was kinda obvious, huh ?