First Swap! DH forgot OUR rules! What to do??

pacpl4funn · October 20, 2005

Hello and Good Morning to all,

Hubby and I became involved in swinging about 3 years ago, because we're not on the same page, we've been taking it slow. Going at my pace, a few weeks ago we had our first swap with another couple, they are great people, the best, trouble is, I thought I was ready for this, till it happened and I became unglued. LOL

Me and the other husband we're doing our thing, 69 with him on top, and my hubby and the other wife were a few feet away doing their thing, 69 with her on top.... Everything is going fine, AND then I hear my hubby's voice, "eh eh eh, not yet, not yet", it was that "tone of his voice" that made me repostion myself to see what's going on.

See we have this rule, no direct mouth cumming and no inside cumming, as he wanted to keep this for us and I did too. So what do I see when I look over, Her face is about 5 inches away from his **** and there is this long. thick, boogery load just hanging in the air off the top of his.... And a moment later, DOWN SHE WENT !!!

It was all I could do to just not get up and walk the f**K out. So I kept my cool, I didn't want to embarass us or the other cpl, cause they knew in advance of our rules.

Her and my hubby 69ing didn't bother me, her cumming on his face didn't bother me, THAT CUM SHOT DID !!

He knew our rules going into this, I warned him to becareful, I told him straight out that, I was not sure HOW I WOULD HANDLE or REACT as this was a 1st time swap. A first time what-so-ever where another woman whould be involved.

And he blew it, literly, I've been upset, confused, down right pissed off, feeling like I want to craw under a rock and just stay there.

Now I've tried talking to him and he swears up & down that he didn't cum in her mouth, that he pulled her off his **** when he felt he was getting too close and that all I saw was "pre-cum", and when I tell him, that was not pre-cum I seen, he swears if it were MORE, that he didn't feel it !

Then he tells me, he was excited and that the newness and atmosphere and hearing & seeing me with the other guy was what made him loose control! So now he's telling me I made him cum??? with her sitting on his face??? As far as I know, you can't hear or see threw someones thigh! So that to me is bull shit. Then he switched it again to hearing me, and then again that if the other cpl didn't have the same rule as us about cumming then it should be ok for him to cum in her mouth or insides..... LOL yeah HELLO! I told him, that if he wants my mouth & insides to be strictly for him, then it applies to him, regardless of the other cpls rules or lack of them....

Throughout 2 weeks of talking, he agrees he fu@ked up, badly, he agrees that if he wants things to be reserved for him then he needs to reserve them for me too. tit for tat. He is very sorry and that I believe.

But I don't know how to trust him again, he ruined this crutial first time. How do I trust that if there ever is a next time that he won't get over excited and forget that I'm there???

His lack of care and concern for my feelings hurts worse then the cum shot I saw and I need help in understanding how this coulda happened. Do all men loose control like this and just think with thier **** head??? How do I go on from here, I don't want to walk away from swinging, nor do I want to walk away from him.

Is this something that time will heal??? Because I need him to prove himself, prove that I'm the one he wants, and that I'm the one he wants to loose control with.... But I don't know how to get past this and trust that it won't happen again. He says he'd like to do this again, in time, that he won't mess up, and that the only way for him to prove this, is to do it again, and that scared me.

I think this first time swap would have been different had we the chance to experiment with a ffm 3sum so I could feel involved and have more control and say so, like he does when we have 3sums that involve another man....

Because I think the physical distance and me not partisipating WITH him bothers me too.....

I'm sorry if this was so long, but I've been reading the posts here and everyone has so many interesting and insightful ways of expressing their opnions and ways to handle things.

thanks

pacpl4funn

txduo2000 · October 20, 2005

Well, one thing that you are going to learn as time goes by and as your experiences increase, rules DO need to be respected and followed but some of them might just slip by in the heat of the moment. The broken rules are not planned in advanced, maybe not even anticipated. And the only way to work past the hurt gotten from a broken rule is to genuinely and honestly talk to each other about it.

Now, the way you described the scenario, her face was 5 inches from his dick and his cumload was not in her mouth? Am I right? Because if so, then he didn't break your rule, if your rule was no cumming in mouths or any other body cavity. The way you described the scenario, he was about to cum and she took her mouth off his dick. Then you went on to describe that she went back down on him. Now, for us, if we had your rule, the way you explained it, that rule would not have been broken in that act and the reason being that he didn't come in her mouth. She stopped, he came, she began again. Now if you would have preferred that he clean up the cum before she went back down, was that stated?

And I am not sure that he "forgot" that you were there. It is very arousing for many of us to hear our partner in the throes of passion with another. Yes, he can hear through a thigh. Not sure what the angle was where you were all situated, but was there a possibility that he could have gotten a glimpse or two through his peripheral vision?

The thing is, no matter how well you know a person, you have no idea actually what goes on in their mind, and subsequently, you don't know what AT THAT MOMENT will be most arousing to that person. Being that this was your first full swap, there's a great deal of intensity involved in that. Not only the sights and sounds, but the imaginations and visions in one's head as the process is playing itself out. For some, it's a sensory overload ... You can't blame him for his level of arousal getting out of control, and there's a big difference in actually cumming inside someone's mouth or pussy and pulling it out til the orgasm is over then re-inserting.

Sometimes rules are made and they don't anticipate all eventualities. So a little understanding has to come into play when that happens.

Do you think he INTENTIONALLY broke this rule with the purpose to HURT you? I don't. He apologized, right? Did you feel like he was sincere?

That's all that really matters, in my opinion. Yes, rules need to be followed to the best of everyone's ability. They need to be respected from all points of view. But we are human beings, not infallible and mistakes and mishaps will happen. Going into this, you have to be aware of that. You have to keep perspective on all situations and try not to overanalyze them and look for things that might not be there after all.

tulippe44 · October 20, 2005

I can't give you any advise on this situation as we aren't at that point yet, but one of our rules is that he cannot (for now) cum in anyones mouth. That rule came about from the rule that you cannot do with anyone else what you can't do with me. I feel for you but also have to agree with txduo on this one. Did he cum in her mouth, or did she clean it up after? If this had been my DH and I, I would feel the same way you do at the moment and I am sorry to hear that this happend on your first swap.

Tulippe44

pacpl4funn · October 20, 2005

I absolutly agree with that we are human and mistakes are bound to happen,

from the angle we were in, it was more of a side by side with about 3 or 4 feet of space between us all. I was on the bottom, and hubby was on the bottom, both of our heads were in the same direction.

From what I saw when I heard his voice and the tone of it. is what I described earlier, when I heard his comments and looked over, yes, her mouth was not on his dick, but several inches away, but with the load just hanging, and knowing that he's not a ONE SQUIRTer. LOL Understand what I mean??? Seeing what I seen, I knew there had to be some cum prior to what was hanging off his cock! Which means he came some in her mouth.

In talking to him, His own words, "well I didn't think our rule applied to me since they didn't have the same rule" but in the same breath, he denies cuming at all, with the exception of maybe some "pre-cum" and to be honest, I've never seen pre-cum hang thick like that. it's usually more runny.

His apologies are more sincere NOW, then they were on the night or the day after this happened.

Like I stated earlier, what bothers me the most is that this was a first time experience for both of us and I warned him to becareful. And he wasn't.

I don't like the fact that there was so much separation, distance, and I feel had we experienced a ffm 3sum so I could feel like I was in control and part of him, then I think I might have been ok with the 'cock clean up'

I feel he violated my trust in "over enjoyment" where he knew I needed things to be subdooed (sp) and somewhat restrained for my emotional needs as again, this was new and he knew ahead of time I may not be able to hand it or how my reactions might be,

And he wants to do this again, I just don't know if this is something I can do again if he can't show some restraint. Even if it's to protect my feelings, ya know everybody had a good time, and came, except me! When I saw his cum, that was it, it ruined it for me. His lack of control and care for my feelings took away from my experience and I just don't know how to handle all this. I am trying, but it's horrible at night when I try to sleep next to him and the moment I close my eyes it plays over n over in my head and then I lay there crying into my pillow.

He's never been very good at saying he's sorry and sounding like he means it, must be a macho thing. Right now I need his assurance of love, compassion, etc.... more so that this isn't a "need to have" thing. And on that aspect he IS trying.

When we're older, I want to remember the fun times, not the times he made me cry. That's not so much to ask?

thanks,

pccpl4funn

txduo2000 · October 20, 2005

Absolutely not, it's not too much to ask.

My suggestion ... back up, start over, talk more before resuming play with anyone and most importantly, go with the comfort level of the least comfortable person - YOU. Re-examine why you are both in this lifestyle. I kind of get, from the way you describe him as being a bit unconcerned with your feelings, that maybe his primary goal is to "get some extra as much as possible" ... and that is NOT a good reason to be in it. As a couple, it is necessary to be in this TOGETHER and FOR EACH OTHER. Selfishness has no place in marriage, and has even less place in a marriage involving swinging.

If you feel like you would be more comfortable in a FMF situation to work yourselves up to couples at a later time, then that's what you need to do.

You cannot continue to harbor resentment. And if he is going to be in this lifestyle, macho or not, he is going to have to learn to open up and be completely honest about his own thoughts and feelings, but above all, he is going to have to learn to be most respectful of yours. Whether he understands it or not, if something hurts you, he has to be considerate and respectful of that and at least try to see it from your point of view.

You said yourself in your original post ... you guys are taking it slow because you aren't on the same page. It's really best to try to get on the same page before making any forays into actual play with others.

pacpl4funn · October 20, 2005

Hi again, and thanks,

We know that I'm a few pages behind him and therefore that's why we go at my pace, LOL

In talking to him, that's what I actually said last night, that I want to move on from this, just forget this happened and make the next time (should there be a next time) make that a new begining for us.

But he also knows not to loose his 'self-control' again, that for me, swinging, has to be enjoyable for both of us.

I know it's difficult to know how anyone is going to react, but I've expressed my feelings to him that there has to be a certain amount of care and consideration that is depended on for any of this to be sucessful and enjoyable.

I'm not saying that I don't want him to have any fun, cause I do, and I know he wants me to have fun. But at what cost is having THAT fun??

When we first started doing 3sums with other men, I was so worried about his feelings, that to be honest, it took several times for me to be sure he was ok. THEN and only THEN could I relax and really get into it. Ya know I was keeping myself aware of him being there, keeping him close, keeping him totally involved with what was happening. I was basicly "playing it safe" for his sake. Because I didn't know how he would feel "after"....

THAT is what I need, want and have to have from him in return. For him to play it safe for my sake. And he didn't when he knew he should have.

I have made this as clear as humanly possible to him, that anything less is just not acceptable to me. Period.

He's whole heartedly agreed, when this actually happened, talking to him was as good as talking to a brick wall. He got pissy, his tone of voice when he said he was sorry was full of anger & resentment. Then after more talking and talking, he left me this note in my email a few mornings after;

"The reason you got 3 different versions from me is I knew what I wanted to say, but didnt know how too untill *** said what he said and then it all came together as to what happend. But It had nothing to do with her at all. It was hearing you in the backround and the whole atmasfeer of things going on around me. I do love you and I am very very sorry for everything and going at your pace is fine. Im not trying to hurt you in any way. I just keep fucking up. Somtimes I think I was put on this earth to fuck things up. And I do a good job at it. Well I havta get into the shower now but just remember that when I fuck up it's not to hurt you, it's just the way my whole life has been, and I think it's hard to say Im sorry because then I have to addmitt that I screwed up yet 1 more time. Im sorry and I love you. The only thing In my life that I didnt fuck up was meeting you and being persistent till I got your attention. That was the best thing I ever did.

Love you"

(*** is a friend we have that swings so I asked him to explain arousal from a guys point of view. ***'s responce was, the difference, newness & sensation of being with another woman, combined with the excitiment & atmosphere, that that would drive any married guy who has only been with one woman in 4 years over the edge.)

So I guess all I can do is let time pass cause it's really to fresh in my mind.

thanks,

pacpl4funn

EvilMJ · October 20, 2005

I have a feeling I am going to be unpopular with this post but here it goes.

Do you think perhaps you are being unreasonable with you rules? Personally I don't think I could enjoy myself (especially if I was the man), knowing that I have to control where and when I have an orgasm. Sure I can see maybe not cumming in someone’s mouth (especially if it is her request) but it seems awful restrictive to me, and sometime accidents are going to happen. I think you need to lighten up a bit on the poor guy.

He knew made a mistake and his first reaction is to say he didn’t cum, you know what, I think sometimes we say stuff in hopes to get ourselves out of the hole we just dug ourselves into, not to hurt the ones we love. Then he owned up on it and apologized. So you have a choice here, you can sit here and hold a grudge over something that he already apologized for, or you can forgive him and chalk it up to experience and move on by discussing how to handle a situation like this in the future.

Did the other couple know of your rules? If you were clear on this then I think you need to decide if you want to continue playing with a couple that doesn’t respect your boundaries. You also have the responsibility to say to them when something is bothering you, no mean no and I know from personal experience that if you tell someone not to do something it is not automatically going to ruin the mood. In fact I have received an honest “sorry about that” and we continued on with having fun. So don’t feel you have to be quiet in order to keep from ruin everyone’s fun, I think in the long run it is better if you say something at the time rather than hold it in when it is too late to do anything.

I agree with txduo2000 when they say that it was likely that his intent was not to hurt you or to break a rule, in the heat of the moment we can sometimes do things we shouldn’t do. Unfortunately this happened with him.

I think you need to decide if Swinging is really right for you, because if this accident is causing you such heartache and pain, then I am not sure you are cut out for this. Trust me, my hubby has made a few mistakes along the way, so have I, but we forgave each other and learned from them. Ultimately that is what you have to do too if is swinging is going to work for you.

txduo2000 · October 20, 2005

I wholeheartedly agree with EvilMJ. She expressed herself in a way that I was unable to do, laying out her thoughts in absolute synchronicity with my own.

Take what she says to heart .... ALL of it.

Short anecdote:

When my hubby and I started out ... kissing others was a no-no. We soon discovered how completely unreasonable and unrealistic that rule was. It was banished soon after our first experience.

Anyone can say what they want about the "purpose" of sex; ultimately the end result is going to be an orgasm. Where that orgasm is placed should really be of no consequence if you are going to be enjoying all aspects of sexual freedoms and positions. My rather crude take on the whole thing is that if you don't want him cumming inside someone's vagina or mouth, then his penis doesn't belong in either place.

Another short anecdote:

Anal is off-limits for us with other people, though we do enjoy it together. This was something that we did not discuss nor communicate about ahead of time, and it led to a major mishap in one of our encounters with another couple. There were were, me with the other hubby, my hubby with the other wife. I was really getting into it and told the guy to do me in the ass! BAD MOVE on my part. No matter that the guy I was with tried and FAILED (he was having erection issues and it just wouldn't go in), when hubby looked over it APPEARED to him, by our positioning that we were engaged in full course anal sex. My hubby got up, got dressed, and announced LOUDLY that we were leaving. He was PISSED and yelled at me all the way home. We slept in separate beds that night and it took a lot of begging and pleading on my part to try to convince him that it didn't happen. He was also upset that I even *allowed* anal with another person. I explained to him that I didn't know it was off-limits. He said that I should have assumed it was off-limits. I am not sure if he ever truly believed me that it didn't happen (it didn't!), but we have moved on and now I am completely in the know about what is and is not allowed for penetration. I will not make any mistake like that again.

And I would also like to add that by being a member of this board, a VERY REGULAR member at that, I have discovered that there are things people do that we have never done, and cause me to question whether or not it is acceptable to my hubby if we were to attempt anything. Case in point: allowing another man to come in my mouth ... not allowed by my hubby. But do I care if he comes in another woman's mouth? Nope, not in the least. I have found that by reading the threads that come in, it opens up new realms that the two of us may not have thought of, and allows us to further lineate our boundaries by discussing these situations encountered by others.

October 20, 2005

Perhaps...

He was real close to cuming. The lady stoped working on him for a moment and while her mouth was off him, he satrted cuming. His comments to her "not yet, not yet" were his warning that he was still cuming, and not to go down on him again until he was finished.

If that happened, he seems to have technically followed the rule, and clearly he was following the spirit by his warning to her.

Also, some people combine the two rules, "always make the evidence point to a lessor crime" and "pleading guilty to a minor offense can save a major hassle". This might explain why admitting to breaking the rule, though he feels technically he did not, would seem the easist way to get past your wrath.

But I've been wrong before, and will be wrong again...

tulippe44 · October 20, 2005

I have to say that I disagree with evilmj on a few points. I have been married for a few years and sexually active for a few years before that. I have never let a man cum in my mouth and they have all known that that was a no-no for me. Never have I had someone disrespect that rule. I have always had warning. I have issues with some body fluids(I'm working on it ) However, if this "rule" was put into place by a couple it should always be respected. One of the things I have seen consistenly on this board is respect the rules and that most newbies have more rigid rules in the beginning. I don't think this is an unrealistic rule and would be furious if it was my dh but I would get over it. Although I still think that the origianl poster could be mistaken in what was seen.

pacpl4funn · October 20, 2005

To reinterate;

This was a first time total swap, he knew ahead of time ( I told him a few times when we were making the plans AND in the car on the way there) he knew our boundaries going in, (and so did the other cpl) hubby knew that I wanted us to try this, I also knew that this was something he wanted to try as well, but he also knew that I didn't know how I would handle it!

You said you made a mistake, with the anal , but did your hubby have to yank out your apology??? Did it take several days for you to say I'm sorry and actually sound like you meant it??? How did you prove to him that you would never make that mistake again???

So if your unsure of the outcome and you still want to do it, then tell me, what is the proper way to proceed???? Or does "fuck your partners feeling" apply here?

pacpl4funn · October 20, 2005

ok I got 2 versions from him for the comments; "not yet not yet",

1-

She was cumming and he was trying to delay cause her hubby said she's only good for one "O"---- So if that's the case, her cumming is what "trigger him" and so thererfore NOT the sights n sounds of me or what was going on with me then. Cause when we are in a 69, he gets me cumming and from that, he starts to cum. Hence a "trigger affect"...

2-

He felt he was getting close and trying to delay her for the reason above and pulled her off his cock, but that he didn't feel himself cum, that maybe a little pre-cum but not a full blown load.....

Now I was there, I saw what was hanging off his cock, and it wasn't pre-cum, and knowing her mouth had just been wrapped around his cock a second earlier, and knowing the amount of cum/or squirts, hence he came in her mouth, maybe not all, but definitly some.

Getting him to fess up is part of the problem, it's like, ok I see that the sun is shinning and he's trying to tell me it's dark outside. What do I beleive, what I am looking at?? Or what he's telling me???

What would you all do, and how would you handle this??

Do you walk away from everything? Bite the bullet and accept the fact that your feelings and emotions don't count?? Try again with better understanding and cross your fingers??? LOL

I dono, you tell me, what would you do in my shoes?

tribbles · October 20, 2005

His lack of control and care for my feelings took away from my experience

I see this as "stinking thinking" on your part. He lost control BECAUSE of how he thought you were excited. He was turned on, not only by the other woman but by what he thought was YOUR excitement. She provided the physical stimulation but thoughts of YOU were the mental and emotional turn on and that tipped him over the edge. And lack of care for your feelings? He thought you were feeling good and having a great time!

Most, if not all of us, treat, talk, touch others the way we want to be touched, treated and talked to...and everyone is different, so we keep doing to others how we want it done and no one gets what they want! You say you held back in mfm's for him....but did he actually KNOW you wanted him to hold back his excitement and thoughts of you enjoying it, just in case you weren't having the fun he wanted you to have?

Talk with each other from the starting point of "he (or she) would NOT do anything that they KNOW would hurt me. Therefore, even tho I'm hurt, it was not what my honey wanted to do. How do we keep it from happening again? What can I learn about myself and partner from this?

We have BTDT and that is one of the things that allowed us to put it all back together.

Also, maybe he didn't feel the first squirt....my honey says each time feels different to him - some O's are no squirters and others are squirt lots..I've seen shock on his face when he didn't know he was even near the edge. Beats me how that works cuz I KNOW for me when I'm near but I have to work at it to cum and he just has it "happen" without effort most the time.

Please keep in mind this is just IMHO and may not be worth 2 cents....

Good luck!

S

tribbles · October 20, 2005

Also by now, it may be very hard for him to ID everything as it really happened and he may even be scared to tell you what he does know and may believe you won't believe him and now is hunting for whatever he has to say to just ease your hurt and get close to you again.

EvilMJ · October 20, 2005

I have to say that I disagree with evilmj on a few points. I have been married for a few years and sexually active for a few years before that. I have never let a man cum in my mouth and they have all known that that was a no-no for me. Never have I had someone disrespect that rule. I have always had warning. I have issues with some body fluids(I'm working on it ) However, if this "rule" was put into place by a couple it should always be respected. One of the things I have seen consistenly on this board is respect the rules and that most newbies have more rigid rules in the beginning. I don't think this is an unrealistic rule and would be furious if it was my dh but I would get over it. Although I still think that the origianl poster could be mistaken in what was seen.

I think I may have not been clear on this point but I said I could understand a rule of someone not cumming in a woman's mouth. I can certainly see where some women might find this distasteful (sorry for the pun). I feel when you go into swinging the idea is to have sex with other couples or singles but when you are getting too strict with the rules it is going to be difficult to enjoy yourself. I'm not 100% sure how it is for a man..not being one myself...but it must be difficult to have a good time and then suddenly have to pull out, then to top it off he has to be aware that if he doesn't get it out in time and starts to cum then his wife is going to be angry and see it as being inconsiderate and hurtful. To me it seems either they are going to have to relax that rule a bit or accept that accidents can happen and it is not meant to hurt anyone.

I 100% agree that we have to have rules in place, and I am not saying that it is okay to break these rules, but I think in a situation where they are both new, he is getting excited by watching and hearing her enjoy herself, that he could not help himself and made a mistake. If you cannot forgive this mistake, or at least learn from it and move on, then I don't think you are going to enjoy swinging all that much.

pacpl4funn · October 20, 2005

did he know that during the 3sums with other guys that I was holding myself back???? Yes he did, and it took me awhile too, It wasn't until I was comfortable knowing he was truly ok that I COULD even really enjoy it.

The mfm 3sums was new, we had never done it, so I was proceeding with extreme caution.... You know that old saying, do unto others as you would have them do unto you???

That is my feeling on all this and his too, but somewhere during that night, he lost touch with that...

So of course it's natural of me to presume he would give me the same care and consideration as I gave him. Just I got the shitty end of the stick and now I don't know what to do with it. LOL

lovefest04 · October 20, 2005

I know I am not going to be popular for this...but

The posts I read from pacpl4fun concern me. I agree that everyone should take things at the pace of the slowest person. I agree that rules are rules and they should not be crossed or ignored. But, the your posts are full of anger, control, distrust and jealously. I personally think your rules point to deeper problems, not with your marriage, but with whether your should participate in this activity at all.

I think you need to question if swinging is right for you and certainly consider soft swing not swapping at this time. I thinks its clear that you're not ready for MFMF full swap. That's OK, it isn't for everyone.

Ask yourself a lot of questions, what do I want from this, why do I want this, what personal issues do I have with sharing my husband or wife, what if he or she has a much better time on a date than I do, can i handle watching him get off if my partner is not performing.... theres lots to think about.

Try to get over the actual night, don't spend so much energy getting him to apologize, sometimes we humans just plain f*#k up. Work on moving forward positively.

In your case, really step back and see if this is for you.

Good luck,

EvilMJ · October 20, 2005

So of course it's natural of me to presume he would give me the same care and consideration as I gave him. Just I got the shitty end of the stick and now I don't know what to do with it. LOL

I am not sure what more you want. Your husband admitted his mistake, wrote you a note basically calling himself a f**k up and how his actions were not meant to hurt you. Either you love him enough to accept that he made a mistake, feels bad and move on, or you keep letting this eat at you.

I say trust your husband, trust that he loves you, sit down and talk to him and made a game plan for the future. Maybe you have to create some signals, or agree that if either one of you are doing something that make the other uncomfortable, then speak up. Maybe you need to determine if soft swap is more the way to go, so he finishes in you.. whatever the case maybe.

My final point is the person that you need to talk to this about is your husband. Put away the accusations, he admitted screwing up, and start working toward something you both can live with.

pacpl4funn · October 20, 2005

Ask yourself a lot of questions, what do I want from this, why do I want this, what personal issues do I have with sharing my husband or wife, what if he or she has a much better time on a date than I do, can i handle watching him get off if my partner is not performing.... theres lots to think about.

What do I want from this???

To have a good time, exerience life and all it's many wonders WITH my husband.

Why do "I" want this? Because it's something he's wanted to try for along time and I am cruious, I'd like to try it and I also want to have a good time while making us both happy.

What personal issues do I have with sharing my husband? Tough question to be honest. I can share to a point, every adventure is different, and if the situation is handled correctly, however, I don't want to throw away the things that make our life special either.

What if he or she has a much better time on a date than I do, can i handle watching him get off if my partner is not performing? No I don't think I can, what your asking is like if one wasn't having a good time, should the one who isn't go out and sit in the car and wait??? Sorry but I thought the pretense of swinging was that both have a good time or the night ends early!!

What More do I want??? the answer no one here seems capable of giving,

How do you move on, how do you forgive when your trust has been violated?

tribbles · October 20, 2005

How do you move on, how do you forgive when your trust has been violated?

For us, I had to KNOW he knew how he came to make the mistake he did.

Then I had to know what he had learned from it.

And finally, I had to accept he didn't do it to hurt me...he did stuff cuz he is just another messed up human and we both learned from his mistake.

S

ANGEDKY(mr) · October 20, 2005

I'm gonna throw an abstract point of view out there for consideration, feel free to set me straight if needed !!!

1) his various stories....could they be panic talking? you had said its been three years getting to this point and in less than a second he thinks he screwed it up so bad that its gone forever. Think about how many time we have seen on t.v. the cops in a high speed chase for miles only in the end to have the driver reply to the "why did you run" question with a "duh, i was scared" and they only wanted to ticket him for a broken taillight (at first)

2)I (if it were my situation) would have issues with the other females actions........... not like she was screaming "no no dont cum in my mouth", in fact she went back for seconds

3) i get the impression that he did at least TRY to abide by the rule, why else was his cock in the cold air instead of her mouth......not to say that he was 100% successful but it was removed from her mouth somehow, someway so shouldnt he at least get some benefit of the doubt based on this rather than condemnation

4) what you want from this is entirely acceptable, and I think (based on your replies) that he does realize the err in his ways and that a touch of compassion from you will help his recovery and allow you to move foward as a couple and in the swinging realm. After all the note that he left you has numerous red flags indicating some self esteem issues!! who better to help him than his loving and caring wife (rather than the hurt, blaming wife that appeared here) if you cant, maybe therapy?? that is your call as a couple but it has to be addressed or he will undoubtedly be accepting blame without regard to who or where the blame is coming from which will have disasterous results in every facet of life

5) how do you move on............COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE its the only answer, but it must be done with a certain amount of caring, address the self esteem and the rest will fall in place

angedky(mr)

biblonde · October 20, 2005

I have been debating on wether or not to reply to this...so here it goes. I have to agree with alot that has been said here but there are alot of red flags coming from you IMHO.

first you say you have been in the lifestyle for 3 years and this is your first "play" time. I see alot of security problems. You freaked because you THINK he came in her mouth. I think he honestly tried to pull out but beings that he was on the bottom that isnt as easy as you think. I dont see this as being a violation of trust. If this woman also knew your rules then she is partly to blame. Sorry dear but most men cant control when they cum. I have had some that barely start to fuck and then are done just as quick as that and believe me they really dont want to finish that fast. You may not like this but I think you WAY over reacted in this situation. I really dont think you belong in the lifestyle if something like this is going to throw you over the deep end. Could this be just an excuse for you to get out all together without saying you cant handle it...kinda like shoving the blame on him so he feels so guilty that it doesnt ever happen again???? This is the way I am reading all your posts. And no that doesnt make you a bad person, hey this lifestyle isnt for everyone. Some people get into it and love it some cant stand it or cant handle it. I really think you need to talk truthfully to your hubby. I think right about now he feels lower than dirt and I truthfully dont think that is fair. It sounded like he really tried to pull out and mostly did...she went back he didnt force her to do anything. There are going to be mishaps from BOTH you if you remain in the lifestyle..hey we are all human and make mistakes...if a tiny one like this has caused you so much pain maybe you should not be in the lifestyle. It really isnt worth breaking up your marrage over or hurt feelings and resentment. But hey that is just my 2 cents worth!

mark069 · October 20, 2005

I really think you should just forget about what happened and move on. I really can't exactly see where your husband broke the rules since by your description he came OUTSIDE her mouth. She actually broke the rules by going down on him after that but that's not his fault. In any case, he apologized anyway so I think it's time to just let that incident be "water under the bridge"...

lovefest04 · October 20, 2005

What personal issues do I have with sharing my husband? Tough question to be honest. I can share to a point, every adventure is different, and if the situation is handled correctly, however, I don't want to throw away the things that make our life special either.

You need to really determine if the "point" at which you can't share will still allow you to be swingers. "Situation is handled correctly"... this is sex, it is IMHO best when it isn't handled. You need freedom to experiment, freedom to take risks and see what happens, not control. No one wants to throw away anything nor would I recommend you do. You have concerns and fear and should consider what ways there might be for you two to experience a little wild sex without others. Videos, phone sex, cams, peep shows.

What if he or she has a much better time on a date than I do, can i handle watching him get off if my partner is not performing? No I don't think I can, what your asking is like if one wasn't having a good time, should the one who isn't go out and sit in the car and wait??? Sorry but I thought the pretense of swinging was that both have a good time or the night ends early!!

Read the posts here about how often men don't perform. Many women have experienced a less than satisfying experience only to see their own husbands/partners giving the other woman the ride of her life and enjoying every minute of it. I can't imagine jumping up and telling the others to stop simply because I'm not getting mine.

There is no keeping score in swinging. Yes you can both have a good time, but you will find that sometimes one of you will have a better time than the other and yes, sometimes you and your partner may just get up, grab a glass of wine and go outside and talk (not the worst thing to be doing, spending time with another like minded human being) while your partner is making Ron Geromy look like an amateur.

That is partly what sharing and enjoying your spouses pleasure is about. For us it's about each other not ourselves. This is not a game for the selfish, but an opportunity to share the most important person in your life with others and to allow your partners to experience and enjoy blissful play. I have often sent my partner to get a massage and love just knowing shes enjoying herself even if I'm home with the children cleaning the bathrooms. I enjoy giving her pleasure.

How do you move on, how do you forgive when your trust has been violated?

I don't know that you can. Do you love him? Can you understand that this experience was as new for him as it was for you? Can you simply forgive him and trust that he loves you? What has happened has happened, the question is, and i don't mean that you should ever swing again, is your relationship important enough for you to let it go and move on. Life can be difficult, and frankly, this isn't as bad as it gets. Love him anyway and SHOW him you love and forgive him.

S

hilltop · October 20, 2005

I have to agree with alot that has been said here but there are alot of red flags coming from you IMHO.

first you say you have been in the lifestyle for 3 years and this is your first "play" time. I see alot of security problems.

I dont see this as being a violation of trust. If this woman also knew your rules then she is partly to blame. Sorry dear but most men cant control when they cum. I have had some that barely start to fuck and then are done just as quick as that and believe me they really dont want to finish that fast. You may not like this but I think you WAY over reacted in this situation. I really dont think you belong in the lifestyle if something like this is going to throw you over the deep end.

Could this be just an excuse for you to get out all together without saying you cant handle it...kinda like shoving the blame on him so he feels so guilty that it doesnt ever happen again???? This is the way I am reading all your posts. And no that doesnt make you a bad person, hey this lifestyle isnt for everyone. Some people get into it and love it some cant stand it or cant handle it.

I really think you need to talk truthfully to your hubby. I think right about now he feels lower than dirt and I truthfully dont think that is fair.

It sounded like he really tried to pull out and mostly did...she went back he didnt force her to do anything. There are going to be mishaps from BOTH you if you remain in the lifestyle..

hey we are all human and make mistakes...if a tiny one like this has caused you so much pain maybe you should not be in the lifestyle.

It really isnt worth breaking up your marrage over or hurt feelings and resentment.

Really well said Biblonde!

Pacpl, I think you've got your swinging style under such incredible tension that it can't help but break.

Step back and re-examine what you're doing and why. If you can't let go of something like this I think that your resentment for any issue is just going to compound itself until your relationship with your husband explodes.

Is that something you want to risk?

pumpkins1970 · October 20, 2005

Mr. Pumpkin here, okay Mr. DH tried to follow the rules, he broke them , accidently, I can understand how hard it would be to withdraw from her mouth being on the bottom and all, he apologized and begged forgiveness:bowing:. You even admit you heard him give warning Surrender to the impending orgasm,...so why are you still dragging him over the coals? I agree with the majority of the board here and have to suggest that you may not be ready for the swinging scene, I mean , good Lord how would you ever forgive yourself if another man "accidently" came in your mouth ? Please, if you are going to continue swinging, just remember were here for fun, not drama and jealousy, there's enough of that out in the vanilla world. XOXO XXX

LikeMinds321 · October 20, 2005

What More do I want??? the answer no one here seems capable of giving,
How do you move on, how do you forgive when your trust has been violated?

Biblonde has already said it like it is. But I'm going to say more.

I think you are trying to camoflauge the real problem with tons of details and the ole blame game.

I don't feel you have the comfort level to swing. I think you're looking for an out and you've made your husband the excuse.

Rules are only meant as a guildelines, sometimes swingers find they've made poor choices in rules.

I've never understood why anyone would go so far as to share oral with others and stop themselves from the orgasm. That seems like cruel and unusual punishment. It's natural to want to expend that wonderful build up of energy when the time has come where your body screams "let go!"

I think others have already said this, but it can be damn hard for a man to stop the orgasm, and when his partner is eagerly participating in bringing him pleasure her tenacity can make it hard to time things out for an ideal outcome of withdrawal or stop-and-wait-for-your-wife-to-crawl-off-the-other-guy-and-jump-on-you thinking.

Before you can be honest with your husband you've got to be honest with yourself. I don't think you're being honest with yourself.

LM

couplewanting50 · October 20, 2005

See we have this rule, no direct mouth cumming and no inside cumming, as he wanted to keep this for us and I did too.

The first question I have to ask is..... why? What is the point of that rule? Maybe you should add, no penetration, to your list of rules, that would greatly simplify your current rules.

As a woman, you have a longer ramp up to orgasm than a man. You can much more easily control whether you orgasm or even approach orgasm. You believe it is OK for him to fuck this other woman, but don't come in her vagina or in her mouth, or..... even near her? Bluntly, I question just how realistic your wish is for him to thrust in her and guarantee that he won't come. ....and as an aside, I rarely orgasm, because I enjoy the desire that remains, so it is not as if I think men can't do it, it is just that most men enjoy orgasm and move toward it rather readily.

You have to believe that the woman was trying to make him come. It might be different if the woman did not want it and he did it anyway. She had no objection.

The entire tone and repetitious nature of your critical remarks reveals that you have an attitude or an axe to grind, and you don't want so much to move past this as you want to beat him to death with it.

You seem to want the people here to support you in your indignation, to better implement some agenda that you have ready to unveil.

DBL D · October 20, 2005

I think what the newbies try to do with their rules, or anyone for that matter, is to try to control the other and see how much they can take under pressure. Well, it isn't that simple. We have generally been very forgiving when we each break rules; she has changed a lot of the ways she thought about things since we started. I have too. We now do what each of us is comfy with (with our partners) and for the most part things are going pretty well. People can't and shouldn't be held to having sex just one or two ways. Too clinical and it becomes like the golf swing after awhile...paralysis by analysis.

Not much fun.

I don't want to sound like I'm coming down on anyone but after 3 years things should be different.

Here's a different approach. How about no rules? Then discuss that afterwards and decide what you should rule out or in. Too scary? Maybe. Sounds like a control issue here but one that should be dealt with in a loving and thoughtful manner.

You'll either become more comfy with each others way of swinging or you'll quit with a bad taste in YOUR mouth. Hope that doesn't happen.

Male D

HappyPeople · October 20, 2005

Situations like this is why we have very few rules. We have rules about playing alone or no taking one for the team, but other than that, we have no hard drawn lines.

And also, I'm not meaning to offend, but those with lots of rules kinda put us off - we don't want to feel like a rhino in a china shop.

txduo2000 · October 21, 2005

What do I want from this???
To have a good time, exerience life and all it's many wonders WITH my husband.

Why do "I" want this? Because it's something he's wanted to try for along time and I am cruious, I'd like to try it and I also want to have a good time while making us both happy.

What personal issues do I have with sharing my husband? Tough question to be honest. I can share to a point, every adventure is different, and if the situation is handled correctly, however, I don't want to throw away the things that make our life special either.

What if he or she has a much better time on a date than I do, can i handle watching him get off if my partner is not performing? No I don't think I can, what your asking is like if one wasn't having a good time, should the one who isn't go out and sit in the car and wait??? Sorry but I thought the pretense of swinging was that both have a good time or the night ends early!!

What More do I want??? the answer no one here seems capable of giving,
How do you move on, how do you forgive when your trust has been violated?

Ok, in the OP's response here I find GLARING RED FLAGS with neon lights coursing all through it.

"Why do "I" want this? Because it's something he's wanted to try for along time and I am cruious, I'd like to try it and I also want to have a good time while making us both happy."

Wrong, wrong, wrong .... In this question and answer, you pretty much make it clear that you are in this becuase HE wants to be. NO relationship swinging or otherwise will survive if one partner is doing things that they really would rather not do for the sake of the other partner. I am all about give-and-take in a marriage, but we are not talking about refusing to get angry because he forgot to put the tootpaste cap on again. We are talking about sharing your bodies, your most intimate physical beings with other people!!!! If YOU aren't comfortable with that, then NO SWINGING. Period.

In the rest of this response you go on to basically further exemplify your extreme discomfort of this lifestyle. Sex with others is not an choreographed event. Every single move cannot be anticipated each time. For many of us, that is part of the thrill, much more exciting than watching porn. If you want orchestrated ... you might try porn.

And as one other said, there should be no scorekeeping in swinging. Sometimes, if you continue, you will have a better time than he, sometimes vice versa. But to get angry because of that ... well, you are only hurting yourself to go that route. And eventually it will hurt your marriage.

I really believe, by the depths of your anger, hurt and frustration that this is not a lifestyle that is healthy for your relationship. You both have to be on the same page in normal everyday life before you can even consider getting on the same swing-page.

If your marriage is not already open, healthy, communicative and strong, swinging will only shred it to pieces.

pacpl4funn · October 21, 2005

Good Morning,

While yes I came here seeking insite, clearity and maybe just some emotional support. And from all the responces I can tell that every one has an opinion, some are partially right, and some I guess can't read or lack comprehension as to what I was expressing here. I guess that's my fault.

Yes we've been in this for about 3 years, why aren't we further???? Well hey, we have jobs, families, responsibilities that come first, and to even meet someone can be time consuming. But regardless of all that, hubby and I both agreed that swinging would not take over our life. HE didn't want it to be an everyday or every weekend type of thing. HE said cause if it were, then it wouldn't be as exciting...His words. And I agreed, it's what he felt comfortable with.

When my hubby first told me about swinging and swingers and his desire to want to try this, yes sure I panicked, big time, In my history I've always been a bumm magnet, nothing but cheats and women beaters. And through the grace of god, we found each other, had so many obsticals in our way, distance being one of them, we were 5 hours apart. But we made it, and we made it work.

So after we get together, he tells me about this and how he's always wanted to try this, says how he never had the balls to ever utter a word to his x wife in 22 years about this, and being how close we are, he felt he could tell me about it, you have no idea how that made me feel, how special I felt.

So sure I felt special, does that mean I didn't panic, hell yes I did, but what do you do when you see that something is so important to the one you love??? The first thing I did was to try and understand it. The whole concept, discuss it, educate myself and him. And that's what I did. I read everything, learned what this lifestyle is 'susposed' to be about.

Everything I read said if your not on the same page, to proceed with caution, go at the slower person's speed, to not rush, to take your time, create safety rules. To determin what's acceptable and not. To treate your spouse with respect, to be caring, concerned, to talk about things that you find upsetting. etc. etc. etc..

In 3 years, to some we have done allot, yes it took me 3 years to be capable of the swap, and I don't think I was ready, or as ready as I thought I was.

In the 3sums that we're done, we played with one guy regularly for almost a year, then the guy broke our rule and kissed me, hubby didn't like it at all, he tried to talk to the fellow, he denied it, so hubby said we were never playing with him again. Hubby said we needed some us time so he could 're-group' because it upset him.... Then a few months passed and we played again with a few different guys, and each time I was feeling more comfortable. You could say it was growing on me. As I had felt very tence, very scared, I knew hubby was enjoying it, but at the same time I felt if I ever really got into it, hubby might not be able to handle that. So I told him that I enjoyed what we were doing but that part of me was being careful for his sake. And he appeared very happy that I was being considerate to his feelings and said that he didn't want me holding back. He wanted me to really enjoy it, that HE was ok. So the next time we played, I let myself go, I really was able to enjoy it, I knew hubby was ok, he said he was ok, so I finally had some real fun. Then came the after, he pulled the emergancy brake. He got all freaked out on the way home, said he didn't want swinging anymore, he said, he felt this guy had disrespected me in his 'dirty talk". This was so unlike my hubby, in the past it was clear I was wasn't having THAT good a time, he was fine, the one guy kissed me and he didn't freak out and pull the plug, but because this guy talked a little dirty, he pulls the plug???? Nothing made since, It was almost a year before he wanted to do anything with anyone, and in all that time, I felt it was cause I finally had fun. He still says it wasn't cause I had fun, but cause of this guys talkin.

Anyhow, here we are, rules are broken, there nothing I can do about, it, I didn't come up with the rule, he did, I didn't break the rules, he did. I love him no matter what, yes my feelings are hurt, do I love him any less. NO.

Do I want to feel safe while we're playing, absolutly. And like I told him, if he can't adhere to the rules he came up with then it's not fair to the other men that we play with. And let me say this, that did not go over well at all.

Well I think I've said enough, everybody has their own view and I respect that, I really do, I didn't come here to cause any drama, all I wanted was some opinions, some clearity, some help and maybe some emotional support.

pacpl4funn

pacpl4funn · October 21, 2005

just one more thing before I head out to work,

The swap with this other cpl,

neither of us had any expereince in doing this, this was a first time,

it was unknown territory for us, I didn't know how I would handle the other woman thing, hubby didn't know how I would handle it either.

Many here say I'm all about controling, and that's not true, control is not the issue, for me, truth is.... it's about love, trust, caring, safety, concern & respect for your spouse.

I read in a different post about a women who was blind-folded in the B&D room for the first time, and couldn't see her husband, and she freaked. She was in unknown territory, just as I was.

Thank You for all the responces, I take them all to heart, and even those that were very harsh and unfeeling too, you have ALL actually helped me to see things that I didn't see before.

pacpl4funn

lcjtsd · October 21, 2005

What to do? From what I've read you should stop swinging. Sorry to be blunt, but "freaking out" over a kiss, over "dirty talk", etc?? Sounds like you two have other issues that need to be worked out and you're using your "rules" as an excuse.

What's our rules? Simply to have as much fun as we can.

txduo2000 · October 21, 2005

Yes we've been in this for about 3 years, why aren't we further???? Well hey, we have jobs, families, responsibilities that come first, and to even meet someone can be time consuming. But regardless of all that, hubby and I both agreed that swinging would not take over our life. HE didn't want it to be an everyday or every weekend type of thing. HE said cause if it were, then it wouldn't be as exciting...His words. And I agreed, it's what he felt comfortable with.

I think, when people were asking why you aren't "farther along" in that three year period, they meant more in your comfort level rather than quantity of play encounters. Of course, sometimes comfort is only gotten from repetitive play with partners ... sometimes it's gotten just by simply growing in your togetherness as a couple. So, from my perspective, I was wondering why you and your husband hadn't gotten more secure with each other to be more comfortable during playtime in those three years, not why you haven't had umpteen partners in that three years.

I totally understand not wanting swinging to take over your life. That's exactly how I feel. It seems like every single weekend, my hubby wants to do something that involves swinging. 90% of the time that's ok with me, but sometimes, I really like to do "normal" mainstream stuff. The problem is: kids, work, social obligations ... all those things that get in the way of being able to do everything you want to do in life. There are only (on average) 4 weekends in a month. Out of those weekends, we have our kids 2 weekends a month, leaving us only two weekends, or 4 party nights to do what we want. It is hard to pack in everything you want to do in such a short lifetime.

And certainly, our responses to you on this board were meant to help. Sometimes when we ask for advice, we don't always hear what we want to hear. Yes, we are sympathetic that you are hurting over a rule being broken. People post stuff like that all the time. It has happened, or will happen, to us all at one time or another. No one here has intentionally tried to be insensitive. But I think you have found that there are a great number of us that will simply tell it like it is, or how we see it. Of course, we don't know you and can only give advice on information we receive from you, so that's what we used to tender our responses.

The thing is first and foremost, how strong your marriage is to begin with ... how quick do you/hubby forgive other, non-related mistakes that you make in your marriage? Secondly, swinging is supposed to be fun, exciting, and empowering to our sexuality. All we have pretty much said here is that if you aren't having fun, if it is no longer exciting, if it is causing you pain and distress, and if you are feeling powerless, then it's not going to work for you.

Bottom line: You cannot fit a square peg into a round hole. Some people are simply not cut out to be swingers. That doesn't make one person better than another. It is what it is. For some people, jealousy is not an issue. For others, it is. There's no right or wrong in that, it is simply the way things are with different people.

My hubby and I have rules. There's nothing wrong with rules. No one is telling you to not have rules or to let them fall by the wayside whenever it is convenient for someone else, whether it is your hubby or your play partners, or yourself. What we are saying is that sometimes, over the course of time and continued encounters, our rules may evolve, diminish, reappear, disappear .... whatever ... dependent upon our comfort levels at various times. That's where two very important qualities come into play ... Respect and Communication. You HAVE to communicate with each other constantly ... much more than most mainstream married couples tend to do. And you have to respect one another enough to adhere to the rules you both set into play. Further, you have to respect one another and love one another enough that if a rule is inadvertently broken, or even intentionally at the time, that you apologize, step up to the plate, take the responsibility, TALK about it and move on. You cannot dwell on things that hurt at the time. You have to be in a marriage that is strong enough that you can honestly trust and believe in your partner that he/she would never do anything to intentionally hurt you.

When it becomes a contest, competition or a game of wills, then there is no respect in your marriage. When you start holding grudges and cannot accept apologies, there is no respect. When you can blatantly and casually break rules, there is no respect. First and foremost, there has to be respect.

All we are basically saying is that you have a choice. You can continue to harbor anger toward your husband, which will breed resentment and diminish your respect for him, and will ultimately wreck your marriage .... OR you can accept his apology, talk about swinging and whether or not you should really continue in this practice, and move on. That's really all there is to it.

ANGEDKY(mr) · October 21, 2005

Anyhow, here we are, rules are broken, there nothing I can do about, it, I didn't come up with the rule, he did, I didn't break the rules, he did

in your heart do you know exactly why he instituted this rule? Not what he says but what his motivations were? What negative outcome did he forsee if he were to cum in anothers mouth? I believe the answer to this question holds the solution to the majority of the issues here. If he wanted this rule for his own personal deep emotional reasons then there is no way he would have even come close to crossing the line, however if he decided on this particular rule to perhaps help put your mind at ease or satisify your hesitations about him being with another woman then that is a problem.......... here it is called "taking one for the team" and history on this board will show that "taking one for the team" will destroy almost anything good!!! and thus the line becomes a little fuzzy because it wasnt really something he wanted it was a bone he threw to you for your appeasment. I also get the feeling that the two of you were doing the same thing during the MFM play, only now the shoe is on the other foot and it hurts! Is it wrong???? In swinging YES, in the regular world? No, in fact i think it has some nice chivarous overtones, it shows he cares about your feelings and has concern for your well being however when introduced into the swinging atmosphere it takes on a diffrent persona and becomes harmful rather than a nice sweet gesture by the husband. That is where the communication comes in not just talking but communicating from the heart, deep down true blue feelings and how to help each other thru the rough times such as these. There is no I or U in team its a WE thing

Angedky(mr)

pacpl4funn · October 21, 2005

thank you txduo2000, very much, I greatly appreciate all you said and as always I take it to heart,

And beleive me when I say, in our normal everyday like, we are the best of friends, sure we disagree, that's normal, but I always try to discuss it, now granted, hubby isn't the great at wanting to discuss things, he has some trouble articulating himself, anotherwards when he says something, it's hard to know what he actually means, it's not coming out 'clear'. But aside from that, we're totally inlove, want whats best for eachother and our marriage.

I do forgive him, cause I love this man, and I know he loves me and didn't mean to hurt me, that's why I came here, to gain some understanding, to learn alittle more.

I don't want to 'brow beat' this man to death cause he made a mistake. I can't change what I saw happen, but I don't want to keep hurting inside. As I've personally found since we've been part of this lifestlye, every experience wether it be good or bad, is a learning experience. And thanks to everyone here, telling me like it is, has actually helped me. I'm not mad, or angry at him anymore. Yes, I was angry & hurt, for the last week and a half, since this happened, I felt so confused, betrayed, shaken, feeling that I didn't know where I fit in his life. And yes for a moment I felt very replaceable. We / I had never had this experience of having another woman there, assuming my roll, in effect, taking my place, I don't think I was over reacting, I was hurt. People hurt. I just had to find a constructive way to deal with it, and coming here, listening to everyone and their views was helpful.

I read somewhere, as comfort levels increase so does the level of play. And I do beleive this is true, especially for me, we started out with the minimum, watched and being watched, gravitated to bringing another man into it, and the first guy we played with regularly for almost a year, then a few different guys along the way, we experimented with alot of same room sex. Attended M & G's hosted by friends, even hosted a small gang bang for a female friend, However without going into all the details, as I'm sure not everyone is interested in what we've actually done, we're not about quanity of partners, for us, it's about the quality, establishing friends, wether it be for play or not.

I actually think I'm retarted in my way of thinking sometimes, LOL, I really thought if anything about the swap would have thrown me for a loop, it would have the other sexual acts, ie; foreplay, oral, fucking, etc......... it was actually exciting & arousing. So I find it odd that the one part, a natural bodily function that is normal duing any sexual stimilation would have such an adverse effect on me.

Either I'm really fucked up in the head or not as much as I thought.

Maybe I'm more kinkier then I even know. LOL

Oh well, I dono, :-)

thanks all and everyone have a great day.

pacpl4funn · October 21, 2005

in your heart do you know exactly why he instituted this rule? Not what he says but what his motivations were? What negative outcome did he forsee if he were to cum in anothers mouth? I believe the answer to this question holds the solution to the majority of the issues here. If he wanted this rule for his own personal deep emotional reasons then there is no way he would have even come close to crossing .....

Let me reply to this, cause this is a really good question,

when we were first educating ourselves, we read about the rules and safety etc,,,,

I asked if there was anything that he didn't want to happen with anyone else. He said that he didn't want kissing, he thought it was too personal, to filled with emotions, Now I love kissing, but that was not something he felt he could handle, so ok, no kissing, then I asked him about cumming, he literly raised himself off the chair and said NO, that MY mouth and pussy were strictly his, and that was the way he wanted it. No discussion. So of course I asked what about body shots or external cumming, he said that was ok, but then added also that he didn't want anyone cumming ON my face that that too was strictly for him.

I don't think he saw or thought of a negitive outcome if he were with someone else and came, as his comments over this situation were, "I didn't think the rule applied to me if the other couple didn't have the same rule"

So basicly my perception on his way of thinking is, other men can't cum in my mouth or inside me, but if the other couple are ok with it, he can.

I hope this clearifies or gives a better view of the how these rules came to be.

ANGEDKY(mr) · October 21, 2005

Glad you responded and thankyou,

So where does the root of your hurt and anger lie, And how does that compare to his motivations for the "rule" in question?

Also, i cant help but notice that in discussing kissing it was "no, and the reason is................." yet in cum shots it was "no, hell no, its mine" To me the diffrences in these statments are perplexing and would warrant more thoughts and questions, but thats just my overly analytical way of thinking

ciao-

Angedky(mr)

pacpl4funn · October 21, 2005

Glad you responded and thankyou,

So where does the root of your hurt and anger lie, And how does that compare to his motivations for the "rule" in question?

Also, i cant help but notice that in discussing kissing it was "no, and the reason is................." yet in cum shots it was "no, hell no, its mine" To me the diffrences in these statments are perplexing and would warrant more thoughts and questions, but thats just my overly analytical way of thinking

So where does the root of your hurt and anger lie??

I guess to me, the root of my hurt & anger I feel is because this was such an important issue/rule TO HIM when we were orginally discussing it, he was so very adimtt that those body spots were his and to be reserved for him and him alone.

And how does that compare to his motivations for the "rule" in question?

I'm not too sure what your asking.... I can't read his mind, but I can safey say that perhaps his motivation for that rule is, he didn't want HIS space violated.

OR that LIKE with the other poster on here who was about to do anal with the other guy and her husband got up, got dressed, walked out and yelled at her the whole way home and here anal hadn't even been discussed as a no no, it was found out the hard way.

I guess when I really think about it, my hurt & anger were due to the fact that I felt like,,, he needs and desires to keep spots on me for himself, ok, but yet he had no forethought for me or himself when it came down to him keeping what is needed that makes those spots on me so sacret to him.

I don't think I made much sence out of what I just said.

DBL D · October 21, 2005

Hi pacpl4funn,

Glad you stuck around and answered our questions. So many others have disappeared when things got hot.

I can see how you really want things to work out and hope he does too.

Most of us don't have time to swing whenever we want and so we want to be sure that we know the folk we are with know the basics. Every once in a while, a couple will ask about our rules and that is a great time to talk to them. Some will see our rules as too restrictive and others will see them as not restrictive enough, and will deny us any further opportunity to get to know them and work things out. That's why I feel involving the other people is important. Everyone is different.

Whether for control or comfort, rules are neccessary guidelines and allow you to grow at your own speed. Loved hearing your sexual history as it gave more insights to what is going on.

Male D

chastityrings · October 21, 2005

I am by far no expert ,..but, I think you two should throw in the towel and just read or watch movies about swinging, cause if you can't cum comfortably with a different partner, why bother with all the hastle, If I were you I'd go rent a good xxx movie and screw his brains out for a few hours, and let him pretend you're sombody else , or maybe try role playing . It just sounds like the whole swing thing is causing you way too much pain. I hope everything straightens itself out for you.

{{{hugs}}}

chastityr

tulippe44 · October 22, 2005

Just wanted to jump in again. My dh and I were discussing this thread again last night. We both agreed that oral cumming for guys in the mouth is a no-no. This is done for my comfort level. I don't at this time let my dh cum in my mouth. I am working on it but progress is slow. So looking at it from the other perspective, if my dh were to accidentally cum in someone's mouth I would of course be hurt if it was done intentionally but from the way he explained it he can always give me warning as he would anyone else. If we were with another couple and the female half did not respect this rule I would think that I would be more upset with her than my dh if he were on bottom. Also from the mans perspective, my dh says that if a man disobeyed this rule he would be furious and tempted to hit him(my dh is not violent in the least but is very protective) I have a very strong gag reflex so sometimes the smallest thing could potentially make me gag. Of course my hubby would be upset, not just because someone else disobeyed but also because for those of us that do gag alot this can be painful not only to the throat but also to the muscles. I am glad that the woman who started this thread was able to forgive her husband, but still feel the need to ask the questions about the other woman and was anything said to her that would let her know that she broke a rule. It takes to for that rule to be broken. Hubby is only at fault to the degree that he had control. His only other choice after giving warning was to physically throw this woman off of him.

ANGEDKY(mr) · October 22, 2005

I guess when I really think about it, my hurt & anger were due to the fact that I felt like,,, he needs and desires to keep spots on me for himself, ok, but yet he had no forethought for me or himself when it came down to him keeping what is needed that makes those spots on me so sacret to him.

Where I am headed with all of this is....................... his rule was based on the fact that (theoreticaly) there are certain places on YOU that should be reserved for his and your enjoyment.............you on the otherhand (correct me if i am off base here) agreed with that wholeheartedly but not from a physicality aspect but from an emotional basis (or at least with more emphasis on the emotional connection), so when you observed what you did it was crushing to you but he really deep down couldnt relate to your emotions because he was more on the physical / personal space side of thinking. In order to get on the same page you have to educate him (to a certain degree) on how you as a woman interpret all the standards of swinging that you have as a couple and likewise try to understand his inner meanings about those same standards and carry that foward in and out of the bedroom . Hope that helps, its just my humble opinion tho-

angedky(mr)

EternallySingle · October 23, 2005

What do I want from this???
To have a good time, exerience life and all it's many wonders WITH my husband.

Why do "I" want this? Because it's something he's wanted to try for along time and I am cruious, I'd like to try it and I also want to have a good time while making us both happy.

What personal issues do I have with sharing my husband? Tough question to be honest. I can share to a point, every adventure is different, and if the situation is handled correctly, however, I don't want to throw away the things that make our life special either.

If you can't answer this question, you are not ready to swing. Everyone has issues when it comes to sex. EVERYONE, not just swingers. I know what I'm comfortable with and when the time is right, I tell ALL parties involved. If they are not willing to work within my rules, it won't work. You have to stop and take the hard look at yourself.

For example, I can't do the annonymous sex with couples thing. Even if the woman says she has permission to swing alone, I have to talk to her husband a lot more than I talk to her before I feel comfortable having sex with the wife. Its one of my hangups. I had a girlfreind that cheated on me with a swing partner and got pregnant. Her rationale was that we weren't married so she could be with whomever she wanted whenever she wanted. Didn't matter that I never even flirted with other women without her present the 18 months we lived together. She believed her prior experiences negated any commitments to me.

That left a bad taste in my mouth, so now I have to know the husband is on board with what I consider a good sexual encounter (especially if she says she plays alone), just so I don't feel like I'm doing to some guy what had been done to me in the name of swinging. That actually kept me from swinging as a single man for many years.

You HAVE to be willing to look deep inside yourself and say "Does this really bother me or am I just looking for something to complain about?" If you can't be honest with yourself, you can't be honest with others. And if you can't be honest with the people you are having sex with, you will not enjoy it.

What if he or she has a much better time on a date than I do, can i handle watching him get off if my partner is not performing? No I don't think I can, what your asking is like if one wasn't having a good time, should the one who isn't go out and sit in the car and wait??? Sorry but I thought the pretense of swinging was that both have a good time or the night ends early!!

What More do I want??? the answer no one here seems capable of giving,
How do you move on, how do you forgive when your trust has been violated?

Life is not black and white. Yes, he has to keep in the back of his mind that he can't totally let himself go with other women like he does with you, but you have to be willing to let go of the anger before you can stop feeling betrayed. The anger is feeding those hurt feelings, not the other way around. Yes, you felt angry, betrayed, and hurt when it happened, but the anger is the feeling that is easiest to hold on to. And its the one thats is coming through based on your choice of words and the way your spelling and grammer slips from college educated woman to seventh grade school girl. You are typing angry, meaning you are feeling furious.

No, letting go of anger is not simple. But you have to make a conscious effort not to be angry. Once you stop acting on your anger, you will stop feeling it as much. Once the anger starts to leave, the feelings of betrayal and emotional pain will follow, because the anger is just feeding those emotions.

This is swinging. Its supposed to be fun. Its also not for everyone. If it were, you would see ads for swing clubs in the local newspaper, not just in adult magazines and websites. Don't let anger over something you can do without cause a problem with something you can't do without...your marriage.

Tempest419 · October 23, 2005

Hi there papl... I just wanted to add my two cents in as a newbie and as someone who had a similarly upsetting experience just a little over a week ago.

First of all... your feelings are hurt, and I think that all you really want--instead of an apology from your husband or advice from people here--is for someone to validate how you feel. No one has really done that; in fact, people have called you into question and defended your husband (with good reason, mind you) but it doesn't seem anyone was attentive to how you feel about this. It's okay--your feelings cannot be rationalized, compartmentalized or discarded. They are what they are, and they don't have to make sense. Emotions in a marriage rarely do.

There are people on this board who will insult you and the structural integrity of your marriage because you are new and still dealing with boundaries and issues of jealousy. These folks have much more experience and many more years on you or I and I think it's easy to forget what it's like to be new. As far as I'm concerned, if your husband initially tells you he wants to sleep with other women and you have no reaction to this... you're probably not so much an enlightened being as you are emotionally numb. It's just not human. I have those aquaintances, and they aren't much fun.

People who start questioning the integrity and reasoning for your rules is going too far. Some people want to keep things to themselves as a couple, and that's okay too. I am not at the stage where I want to fall into bed with whoever and say "anything goes" either... quite frankly, from what I've seen on this board that's not even a SAFE way to play. There are women on this board who have been violated and physically harmed because (from what I observed) there were no rules and clear communication on what is okay, either that or they have been doing it for so long they just don't have any rules. It's a very sticky game for women in several ways, and you should play as you are comfortable.

As for scorekeeping... oh yes, everyone is scorekeeping. I got with a girlfriend first and I caught all kinds of personal (that I was selfish) and marital insults (that my marriage was second to my bisexual friend) on my husband's thread because I wouldn't allow him to just run off alone with the first twat that presented itself the next week.

All I can do is reiterate that it sounds to me like your husband tried to get away from the chick, so if you believe him, then forgive and forget. Also try to remember that YOU were enjoying yourself as well to a certain point, and that you can have fun together again.

And, you are right about perhaps sticking with threesomes instead of couple swapping. It's working out very well for us with two trusted singles right now, and it feels more personal. You know what they say... three's a company and four's a crowd. It is indeed more personal with three and if you are okay with that, then go back to it.

Good luck to you and feel free to send me a note.

Tempest

KittKatt · October 24, 2005

what would u have done if u were trying to get that last stroke in before he cam and u didnt get off or out in time before the load was released into ur mouth or else wheres? what would u say or do? after all u were just having fun and enjoying the sexual activitie that u were both enjoying only u missed judge ur time on the guy. would u tell him? or just quick and say honey he cam in me i sorry. or say i was having fun and didnt get off in time and caught his load. i believe in rules and holding up to them. but this rule is one that is sure to be broken by both partys and not intentionaly.but by be caught up in the moment of pure hard sex. i can say if i were ur hubby i would tell u that i was sorry and do everything to show my love to u. also i would afraid to swing again in fear of hurting because from my past swinging experience every situation is going to be different. just remember it is all for fun and to just have fun and enjoy each other. take care you two will be fine.

pacpl4funn · October 24, 2005

Well to be honest, in all the 3sums we've done, I never let myself get that out of control, the other guy always knew that there was no cumming in my mouth or inside me, and if I was on top, and he said he was getting close, then I would finish him off with my hands. In 3 years of playing, there has not been anyone except my husband to cum in my mouth or inside me. Why ? Because I love and respect my husband.

In closing this chapter on this situation is,

Had I saw the movment of him lifting her off (as he said he did) then our rule wouldn't have been broken, however I didn't see it. And I'm tired of having my eyes called a liar.

What's done is done, there is no going back to re-do it.

I do have a question that I'm kinda reluctant to ask,

chastityrings · October 24, 2005

Don't feel that anyone is judging you, you have asked for advice and have gotton opinions, what you do with those is is completley up to you. You have rules, sometimes rules get broken, and so do hearts, please forgive and move on (I won't say forget) for your own sake. I'm sure no one meant to make you feel like a liar, they are just trying to understand and help.

And I would'nt be afraid to ask another question, you may get some very good advice, or at least see some different angles.

best to you:)

xxx

chastityr

KittKatt · October 25, 2005

hi pac i hope i didnt upset u. that was not my intention. just help u look at different views. and possible help u cope with out anymore hurt. like i said accidents happen in the heat of the moment. hurting a womans feelings is not on my list nor do i see it ur husbands either. i know from experience the hurt u feel when the other breaks a rule. it has happen to me(im kitt) she is katt. but i look at it on a different view to see what went wrong. we both learned and talked about it and it hasnt happend again nor will it. we still love each other nothing has change. we still play and sense we were so new at it we look at the swingers lifestyle different then we did before. it is a game to us. we have fun. and we have greaten or sex life with each other. all the factor that we were searching for. when we started we didnt know what to expect. what the other might think if the sex sounded hotter than our own. but we see now it is all about having fun. the experience we both share with other people. and the fact that we are closer to each other now than we have ever been with anyone we have been with before coooollll. i get off my soap box hope i helped u and didnt hurt u in anyway. have fun cause we do. and what is ur question ask away talk to u later

kitt

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