My wife has a double standard and may be cheating, too

[Naughtycool 15]

Well folks - long time since last post- 9 years in lifestyle - and still learning!

Previously my wife had a semi- exclusive single party partner that got WAY too close for WAY too long- finally ended about a year ago due to the hassle-

Lst week an old friend and party partner of hers clled to take us to dinner- ended up that I had a late appt. and couldn't make it till later- talked to her and she said- "what if he wants to hve sex with me? to which I replied- is that such a stretch- what's the matter, aren't you a big girl? Can't you say no and she said -yes- no problem- call you later-

Two hours later she calls and says - don't know when I will be home there is stuff in the freeezer for you- Ok- HMMMM

Two more phone calls from her (at the restaurant) I am at home and long story short- over 2 hours more go by before she brings him home and SURPRISE! they had sex! Not pised about the sex but the fact that I wasn't informed before she got down to the deed! Basically behind my back!

We discussed it told her I was hurt becasue she did not let me know and we planned on the next Sat. to have a date night at home alone- which ended up being changed by her- the converstation that took place that night was that basically there are no more rules in (or out)the lifestyle and that I could do whatever I wanted with whomever and she actually challenged me to find a sex partner- So opinions please- I she sincere or just talking out her ass because she might have some guilt? Quite confused

Naughtycool

[wetpanties 5]

This isn't an issue about swinging - This is an issue about "CHEATING". Whay your wife did is called "CHEATING"! You have a much larger problem that needs to be addressed now. If you have no more rules in or out of the lifestyle, it would appear that you no longer have a life together!

[dave110256 21]

I agree with wetpanties...........swinging is only consentual, otherwise, it's cheating.

[Spoomonkey 421]

I am not so sure that it is cheating, though I do see your point, WP. I think this is a case of boundaries becoming far too lax.

 

I think that what might have happened is that communication has broken down. There are plenty of couples who have a "no rules" approach and make it work, but the majority of swingers have rules that are intended to protect themselves as a couple. It is obvious that what the lifestyle has become for you isn't working, so "no rules" isn't "just right."

 

I think the sane-est and most sensible thing any couple can do when they get "out of sync" is simply to pull away from swinging. It doesn't have to be forever, though it certainly could be, if that is what works. But, pull away and communicate. Go back to the open, honest communication that helped both of you get into the lifestyle.

 

Tell her how this is making you feel - but not with a "aren't you a big girl" tone (that may be some pretty good insight into what is going on, IMHO). Start with honesty and see if you both can work together from there.

 

I think the scariest thing in the lifestyle for me would be to get to a point where Mrs Spoo and I are no longer heading in the same direction. After all, this isn't bowling we are talking about. This sort of thing could/would absolutely rip us apart. Because of that, we are very adamant about keeping our communication as wide open today as it was when we started. My relationship to her is far more important than this "hobby" - and I know she feels the same.

 

The two of you need to stop, back up, get back to that point and then see where the road leads from there.

 

Spoomonkey

[EvilMJ 65]

I agree with Mr. Spoo on this issue. THere appears to be a huge gap in Productive communication going on here. I also agree that you need to both pull away for a while and set up some new ground rules. Hubby and I have played separately before, but...and this is a large But..everything is discussed, planned and agreed upon first. He would know where I was at all times, who I was with, what was going on, exactly when I would return. Any change in these plans results in a phone call at which point a whole new discussion would occur. If someone is uncomfortable then it does not happen.

 

When we say we play alone, it is a rare thing that only happens with people we know VERY well and trust (no singles either). It works for us, but it if started to seem to go off track we would stop in a heart beat. As Mr. Spoo pointed out, this is just a 'hobby' to us, it is not our life and my husband is number one at all times.

[txduo2000 18]

I don't really know how to respond to this myself. I have many things going through my head, but I don't know if you guys have played separately in the past or what your boundaries and rules were prior to this incident.

 

I think Spoo and EvilMJ said it pretty well, and your communication is definitely in need of some improvement and overhaul.

 

In our situation ... neither of us would ever go to a dinner or meeting with a single or even a couple for that matter without the other.

 

I consider it extremely disrespectful to you that she indicated, in so many words, that her intention was NOT to have sex with this guy, then she did. I consider it absolutely disrespectful that she called you to tell you that there was stuff in the freezer for you. And absolutely without a doubt disrespectful that FOUR full hours went by where they were together and you were home alone??!!!!!!! I may have read your post wrong, but I thought you said that your late appointment would cause you to have to meet them later .... then it sounds like you were just sitting home alone while they were out? I don't get that part.

 

Yeah, I consider it cheating if she led you to believe that they would not be having sex, then did without checking with you first to make sure it was ok.

 

And I really don't see where SHE gets off telling YOU that there are no more rules and things are just a free-for-all from here on out. THAT is TOTAL disrespect, IMHO.

 

Y'all need to step back, pull out of the lifestyle (if she thinks she can do it) and re-examine your priorities. Because if her priority is the lifestyle and not you and your feelings, then you have a lot more serious issues in your marriage than the lifestyle and the way it is handled.

[CB_n_Red 16]

Looks like possibly an initial failure to communicate, which could be called cheating (and maybe was), followed by a demand for a carte blanche for her to do as (and whom) she chooses, regardless of whether Naughtycool is into the idea.

 

the converstation that took place that night was that basically there are no more rules in (or out)the lifestyle and that I could do whatever I wanted with whomever and she actually challenged me to find a sex partner

 

That's the bit I would find most alarming if I were in those shoes. It appears she's basically saying that the prime relationship doesn't matter any more. She'll do her thing anyway. That "challenge" I would find most insulting.

 

I would suggest that a pause in the swinging might be in order, though given the above, I'm not convinced she would stop if it was asked of her. The fact that an earlier situation got "WAY too close for WAY too long" raises a lot of issues for the current situation.

 

Good luck! I fear you may need it.

 

CB

[JnCC 24]

...basically there are no more rules in (or out)the lifestyle and that I could do whatever I wanted with whomever and she actually challenged me to find a sex partner- So opinions please- I she sincere or just talking out her ass because she might have some guilt?

I think your marriage is going to hell in a U-Haul that's hitched to some other guys pick-up truck. I think she's drawn a line in the sand and dared you to cross it. I think if I were you I'd buy an hour with the best divorce attorney in your community and learn how to protect your assets. Then spend 15 minutes doing a brief consult with every other attorney that's worth a damn, just so she couldn't use them in the upcoming divorce. You don't have to file anything yet, just know where your vulnerabilities are, and what not protecting them could cost you.

 

But hey, that's just my opinion, and I'll freely admit that I'm not one who believes in rebuilding a relationship on a salvage title.

I am not so sure that it is cheating, though I do see your point, WP. I think this is a case of boundaries becoming far too lax.

It's cheating, because he didn't give permission for her to do it. "Communication" may be important to a relationship, but it should never come at the expense of consideration. It's not enough to tell your partner that you're going to do something that you know will hurt them. The question of whether their "boundaries are too lax" is moot, because she's already made it clear to him that no matter where his "boundaries" are, she's going to cross them with impunity.

 

You've been down this road with this woman before. It will only get worse from this point on.

 

Talk to the lawyer NOW, dude. You'll thank me later...

[Naughtycool 15]

Thanks for all the input- Yes we have swung separately before, together, threesomes, etc., etc.- but things changed greatly with the semi-exclusive single fuck buddy she had and since then I have taken all the steps necessary to end situations like that- too bad she still won't come clean - are you all ready? Says tht is was my fault for the way I reacted- NORMALLY - like any husband would that see's some single guy try to dominate time with his wife!!! At any rate- the lastest episode does show me that she is more interested in taking care of herself when it comes to sex- apparently in -or out of the lifestyle boundaries-- We have greatly slowed down our attndance at events because YES! we do need to spend time re-creating the passion for each other that we had at the beginning of our lifesstyle adventures- Too many unanswered communications about what she really wants- I told her that since by her actions it is obvious that she still wants to play in the lifestyle- but by her not having any commitment to re-set ground rules ( that she orignally wanted and then broke) forces me to not participate in the lifestyle- I agree- no commitment to communication or consideration and no rules- makes me a non-player- thanks to all for your input-

Naughtycool

[twoplayful2 16]

I dunno. My gut feeling is that even when she told you she would say no that she didn't really mean it. If this is true, there are big problems and JnCC might be closer to the target than even the mighty Spoo. I hope not though, good luck to you.

[seriously 16]

I see everyone wants to go on about your lack of communication...

To my mind, if you have been in the life style for 9 years then I bet you guys know a thing or two about communicating. My spouse and I have been ver-r-r-ry clear with each other on this issue. A lie of any sort about an issue like this is dangerously close to cheating. This is one of the dangers in the lifestyle: playing with someone without the other's consent even though you might have done it last Tuesday with consent is cheating in my opinion. If you want to keep this together tell her you don't want anyone else for the time being and think you both should just work on your primary relationship, i.e. stay way from others. See if she is willing to work to keep it together.

 

Good luck, I sincerely hope it works out

 

-Seriously

[montresor 19]

Yep, been there on this end too. Ms P and I have had periods of separate sex with trusted fuck pals and no problems -- "Sex Freedom Nights," we call them. But there have been a couple of occasions -- and we've both been guilty -- when we each jumped at an opportunity and gave little thought to the issue of letting the other know; guess we figured we'd straighten it out later. Some rather serious conversations resulted, and now we stay in touch if playing separately, even if it's like the other night when P called while I was working late to say she was out with co-workers and she might have sex with one of them she's done on previous occasions. Even then, we both felt a little funny because of the last-minute nature of it, and I think were both relieved when she ended up not having sex and coming home early. It seems to work better if we plan ahead and both have "something to do" that evening!

 

But the situation described above is certainly different from this. It's a challenge on her part, and, I think, one that's designed to disrupt the marriage.

[Spoomonkey 421]

Even then, we both felt a little funny because of the last-minute nature of it, and I think were both relieved when she ended up not having sex and coming home early.

 

If you felt a little funny about it, why would either of you agree to go ahead with it?

 

I would think the wise thing would be to simply realize that there are other nights, better circumstances and less "funny feelings" in just saying "wait". If things make either of us feel even a little bit uncomfortable, we just don't do it.

 

Even if only one of us has that feeling - and even if we can't explain why we have it, it's just some gut reaction - we walk away from the situation. Every time we have done that, something later tells us we made the right decision. Open communication is sometimes saying "no" - open mindedness is sometimes being okay with hearing "no".

 

This is about US first. Not me - not her - but US. I am really baffled by couples who constantly miss that point and drift toward some rather rocky places.

 

Spoomonkey

[BodyScape02 21]

If you felt a little funny about it, why would either of you agree to go ahead with it?

 

...

 

This is about US first. Not me - not her - but US. I am really baffled by couples who constantly miss that point and drift toward some rather rocky places.

 

Spoomonkey

 

I have to second Spoomonkey on this one... Me too …on both points.

 

She did not communicate with you darling` ... she threw you an ultimatum.

 

A " What are you gonna do about it" statement and then used coercion ( I.e. you go find someone too) to reinforce her choice. Those are communication tactics... but not ones I would call a dialogue.

 

She basically told you...she wants an open marriage... you are being cuckolded. If that is fine with you... then there you are... if not... you have to decide how much self respect you want to loose or how little of it you can live with. That is a very personal choice.

 

If you want her... you could perhaps try to woo her all over again and provide her with whatever it is she is missing in your relationship that makes her feel valid ( notice I did not say ..is valid) in her choice.

 

The only insight I can come up with is that , like many women, she may miss the seduction and excitement of when love is new. I am throwing that out there as a starting point for renewing your communication. If you work at making her fall in love with you all over again... well I don't know what woman doesn't love that.

 

Remember , loving her isn't necessarily "letting her take lovers" Make sure you remain her number one lover...never get lazy about that guys ( general request from me personally). I think it is what leads most women to go astray and end up becoming and adulteress.

 

Just a suggestion... darling...Only you can choose... only you two.

 

Best wishes...my heart bleeds for you.

 

Ms. Body

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

It's when I read an opening post like this one that I wish the wife was here to give her side of the story. It can make a difference, as I've seen before in other threads.

 

You titled your thread "wife has double standard" which says to me you feel she wants something that she won't allow you. What is that? Your post doesn't seem to match what the title suggests. Is the fact that she made the mistake of playing when she said she wouldn't what's really bothering you? Or could it be that you haven't found a special playmate like she has? Or maybe it's something else.

 

Whatever it is that's not quite right, my advice is be honest with yourself, look your situation squarely in the eye, and work from there.

 

Seeing the problem as one person's fault rarely works to the advantage of a marriage.

 

You are frustrated, she may be too, who knows what irritations you've brought into the swinging part of your life together. You've been swinging 9 years. You said "Not pised about the sex but the fact that I wasn't informed before she got down to the deed!" leads me to believe you two have allowed separate play over the years.

 

I think there is something more here. A bigger issue.

 

LM

[leftcoastcouple 32]

I'm sure I'm in a teensy-tiny minority here, but this situation, unfortunate as it is, exhibits why I've never been able to understand the "permission" approach most folks take to swinging. In the end, we're all individuals and free spirits, and if you're secure enough to agree that your partner can have sex with others under certain conditions, then what gives you the right to dictate those conditions?

 

I feel that once you've said "OK" to allowing your partner to be with others, it's not fair to say only when you want, with whom you want, etc. That turns it into a power struggle, and it seems inevitable that the partner with the stronger will is going to dictate what happens--and bad feelings are going to result.

 

If, on the other hand, both partners agree that all is OK as long as it's above board and there are no secrets, then no one feels manipulated or controlled. Or, to put it another way, if naughtycool's wife wanted to sleep with their friend, and they as a couple have been swinging for nearly a decade, why does he get to decide if that friend was OK on that night and in that setting?

 

I agree that the way his wife went about it was deceptive (at least by his telling of the evening's events) and not in the best interest of them as a couple. Had Mrs. LC said "I'm not going to" and then left me alone with "stuff in the freezer," I'd have been hurt--but not because she had sex with our friend, just how she'd gone about it.

 

One thing I'm not clear on is whether, if she'd asked beforehand, it would have been OK with you, naughtycool, if your wife had slept with this friend. If your answer is "yes," then I can understand where you're coming from. But if it's "no," then you've validated my confusion.

 

Trust is absolute, at least for me and Mrs. LC. If we can trust one another together, we can trust one another alone. And it's from that perspective that we approach swinging, period.

[intuition897 2,179]

I'm sure I'm in a teensy-tiny minority here, but this situation, unfortunate as it is, exhibits why I've never been able to understand the "permission" approach most folks take to swinging. In the end, we're all individuals and free spirits, and if you're secure enough to agree that your partner can have sex with others under certain conditions, then what gives you the right to dictate those conditions?

 

I feel that once you've said "OK" to allowing your partner to be with others, it's not fair to say only when you want, with whom you want, etc. That turns it into a power struggle, and it seems inevitable that the partner with the stronger will is going to dictate what happens--and bad feelings are going to result.

 

I think the difference is between willingly handing your partner the reins and complying with their wishes out of respect, or straining at the bit and always resenting your partner for imposing his/her wishes on you.

 

To me, any time swinging becomes something to do with satisfying some kind of itch that you can't scratch for each other - that it becomes something about 'sexual freedom' - you're looking for trouble. It's about freedom to choose, not freedom to act. I get this silly analogy in my head: Your neighbour has a Christmas tree farm. He says go ahead and choose any tree you like, and cut it down. No charge. Would you clear-cut the whole damn field because he gave you permission to cut one tree?

 

It's true that we are all individuals and free to do as we please. But we need to realize that some of our actions and decisions will make us unsuitable to those with whom we share relationships. Our partners have given us the freedom to choose. Sex isn't the issue; it's simply the medium. The issue is, in fact, respect for one's partner. Callous disregard for his or her feelings on the matter are what count, not the fact that sex occurred.

 

It sounds to me like Naughtycool's wife has forgotten that Naughtycool has given her a gift, and she has abused its priveleges. Priveleges, not rights.

[curiousagain 326]

We discussed it told her I was hurt becasue she did not let me know and we planned on the next Sat. to have a date night at home alone- which ended up being changed by her- the converstation that took place that night was that basically there are no more rules in (or out)the lifestyle and that I could do whatever I wanted with whomever and she actually challenged me to find a sex partner- So opinions please- I she sincere or just talking out her ass because she might have some guilt? Quite confused

Naughtycool

 

While it has been pointed out that we are only getting one side, there are possibly communication issues, etc. the above quote is a world of information. That challenge tells me all I need to know. The wife figures the world is her oyster and her husband couldn't get laid if he paid for it and he's just holding her back in the lifestyle and in life. My advice would be to follow JNCC's advice and while doing so, remember that living well is the best revenge.

[BodyScape02 21]

I feel that once you've said "OK" to allowing your partner to be with others, it's not fair to say only when you want, with whom you want, etc. That turns it into a power struggle, and it seems inevitable that the partner with the stronger will is going to dictate what happens--and bad feelings are going to result.

 

If, on the other hand, both partners agree that all is OK as long as it's above board and there are no secrets, then no one feels manipulated or controlled. Or, to put it another way, if naughtycool's wife wanted to sleep with their friend, and they as a couple have been swinging for nearly a decade, why does he get to decide if that friend was OK on that night and in that setting?

 

I agree that the way his wife went about it was deceptive (at least by his telling of the evening's events) and not in the best interest of them as a couple. Had Mrs. LC said "I'm not going to" and then left me alone with "stuff in the freezer," I'd have been hurt--but not because she had sex with our friend, just how she'd gone about it.

 

One thing I'm not clear on is whether, if she'd asked beforehand, it would have been OK with you, naughtycool, if your wife had slept with this friend. If your answer is "yes," then I can understand where you're coming from. But if it's "no," then you've validated my confusion.

 

Trust is absolute, at least for me and Mrs. LC. If we can trust one another together, we can trust one another alone. And it's from that perspective that we approach swinging, period.

 

Wow...leftcoastcouple... has some really great point here... ones I didn't consider and that are very valid.

 

It would be nice to have both perspectives.

[sereneiders 263]

I agree with Spoomonkey about there is a communication problem, I definatelly agree with leftcoastcouple, but mostly I agree with LikeMinds321 here, moreover because this brings to another question:

 

How things manage to reach to this point, and why just at this point you get worried?

 

I'd say you'd have to ask yourself if there isn't some aspects of things elvolving this way that become enjoyable to you.

 

I've heard many swingers say the swinging activities are a way to enforce trust and love among partners, because when such activity ends, the way the partners relate to each other afterwards turns into a confirmation of the compromises and the contratc founding the couple, whatever that contract may involve in each case. I personally disagree with this point of view but it may ve a valid way to feed the relation, where the swinging activity acts like a rupture threat and the confirmation that the rupture didn't happend afterwards convalidate the relationship grounds.

 

From this perspective, the problem here could be a lack of convalidation for these grounds. If you were aware of the threat as a real one, you wouldn't be saying to her "you're a big girl", so when you said so, I believe you may be raising the bet and daring her to increase the threat risk, and once she did so, the already well known convalidation proccess may not be enough for you.

 

So my question is wheter the problem is the threat risk increase or the convalidation proccess, because it seems you were asking for the risk increment, and perhaps you ask for this secretelly craving for a new element in the convalidation proccess, so when you don't get it, you feel yourself torn appart.

 

If you expected her not to have sex, you'd be saying her "say no, and come home so we have a dinner togheter". That give her no space for speculations on what you're expecting, and if she have sex, clearly she would be cheating on you, but you didn't put things this way, realying all you expectations on her "common sense", so once you gave up your right to say "no", it seems you wanted some sort of love proof from her you didn't got. Why should she gess you're in need of such a love proof?

 

At this point, I believe that in order to try to provide some clever advice it'd be required to hear the other bell, and counting with your version alone, i'd ask you if you don't have a double standard yourself, when you keep for yourself all your expectations and then blame on her for not fullfilling them.

 

I disagree with the opinion about this like facing a rupture, or that you don't have a relationship anymore. Perhaps the grounds of your relationship just shifted and you need to find them in order to rebuild it.

 

Perhaps at this point you're not swingers. There are couples who enjoy cheating and reconciliating, or to know one of the patners cheats, or perhaps this cheating is the only way she knows at this point to make some statament and slap you face form something else.

 

So, so far, the only I can say is a lot of perhaps. Sometimes, finding the solution for a problem relay on making yourself good questions.

 

Why don't you talk with her?

 

sereneiders

[JnCC 24]

There are sometimes problems in marriage that are not caused by "poor communication" between the parties, and therefore cannot be resolved by "improving" the communication between the parties.

 

Besides, people communicate in many ways...some verbal, most not...and the thoughts and feelings that are expressed verbally are not always in agreement with the actions taken by another. When in doubt, most people will trust what the other person does over what they say as a measure of their true feelings or intentions.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that the OP, like most men, isn't a very good listener. Maybe that's why his wife has chosen to use both verbal and non-verbal methods to express her feelings. By cheating with at least 2 guys that he knows of, and in a way that makes no pretense about her total disregard for whatever "rules" they previously had, she's letting him know in a way that words alone never could, how strongly she feels about him, their marriage, and her plans for her future...a future in which he apparently plays little if any part.

 

Perhaps it was in case there were any lingering doubts on his part that she told him that she intended to continue screwing whoever she wanted, whenever and however she wanted. The icing on the cake had to be when she then told him to go find somebody else.

 

Contrary to some, I think the OP's wife is an excellent communicator. In fact, if there's a better way of telling your spouse "It's OVER!" that doesn't involve the use of knives, firearms or woodchippers, I'd like to know what it is.

 

Who knows or cares "who started what" in the problems they're now facing? It probably doesn't matter anyway. The problem he's confronted with now (and the only one he can do anything about) is that he's hearing what she's telling him, but not listening...

[Spoomonkey 421]

Well, NaughtyCool, looks like you have two options being presented...

 

I was a bit surprised at how quickly people advised simply "quitting" on the whole thing and seeing the divorce lawyer - but then I looked at the way their status was listed and figured - makes sense. Quitters quit...

 

You can take that route, but you definitely know more about the situation than most everyone here. I think the sensitive advice from folks who know nothing of your situation would come from the angle of valuing marriage and making it work. I suppose not everyone shares those values.

 

That said, I would strongly advise you that before you throw the baby out with the bath water - examine what got the two of you to the place you are and see if there is any way to get back to the place you were. This does take "communication" - a little thing that actually is a miracle worker for those with the balls to try it.

 

I hate to think of anyone being in a place where they are faced with such a tough situation, but I - for one - sincerely hope that you and your wife get through this intact and in love...

 

But that's just me...

 

I have a good marriage, so I tend to hope the best for others...

 

Spoomonkey

[Naughtycool 15]

I agree that the way his wife went about it was deceptive (at least by his telling of the evening's events) and not in the best interest of them as a couple. Had Mrs. LC said "I'm not going to" and then left me alone with "stuff in the freezer," I'd have been hurt--but not because she had sex with our friend, just how she'd gone about it.

 

One thing I'm not clear on is whether, if she'd asked beforehand, it would have been OK with you, naughtycool, if your wife had slept with this friend. If your answer is "yes," then I can understand where you're coming from. But if it's "no," then you've validated my confusion.

 

So- these two quotes above really sum it up here-another phone call in the midst of dinner reiterated the same reply of "stuff in the freezer and "don't know when I'll be home"- at the time I had just returned home- and was the time I said I would probably be home- and so it wasn't 4 hours home waiting- it was only 3(!) -and ANOTHER phone call from her (2nd one also from the bathroom!) relayed that "I'm getting drunk" and again, "don't know when I'll be home"- so from that point only 2 hours (and 15 min!)passed from that last call

until he dropped her off-

AS for previous behavior of this sort- no--and yes- the original ground rules set- were continually stretched and shattered a long while ago- it's the only

questionable behavior since the previous episode with that single guy and that has been over for a year-

And most curiously here- my question from my original post as to whether she is serious or just blowing it out of her ass has not been answered- I have handled all lifestyle faux pas by my wife so that she changes what her behavior is rather than me imposing my will- basic consideration- yes -that and more honesty from here about her desires would be good- I just have to show her somehow that it is in her best interest for US that she open up more to me- thanks to you all for your input up to this point - some are damn enlightening-

Naughtycool

[Naughtycool 15]

I have to second Spoomonkey on this one... Me too …on both points.

 

 

She basically told you...she wants an open marriage... you are being cuckolded. If that is fine with you... then there you are... if not... you have to decide how much self respect you want to loose or how little of it you can live with. That is a very personal choice.

 

If you want her... you could perhaps try to woo her all over again and provide her with whatever it is she is missing in your relationship that makes her feel valid ( notice I did not say ..is valid) in her choice.

 

The only insight I can come up with is that , like many women, she may miss the seduction and excitement of when love is new. I am throwing that out there as a starting point for renewing your communication. If you work at making her fall in love with you all over again... well I don't know what woman doesn't love that.

 

Remember , loving her isn't necessarily "letting her take lovers" Make sure you remain her number one lover...never get lazy about that guys ( general request from me personally). I think it is what leads most women to go astray and end up becoming and adulteress.

 

Ms. Body

 

This is the one that gives me the greatest advice and I feel hits the nail on the head-in whats happended and where I need to go-

Naughtycool

[intuition897 2,179]

So- these two quotes above really sum it up here-another phone call in the midst of dinner reiterated the same reply of "stuff in the freezer and "don't know when I'll be home"- at the time I had just returned home- and was the time I said I would probably be home- and so it wasn't 4 hours home waiting- it was only 3(!) -and ANOTHER phone call from her (2nd one also from the bathroom!) relayed that "I'm getting drunk" and again, "don't know when I'll be home"- so from that point only 2 hours (and 15 min!)passed from that last call

until he dropped her off-

AS for previous behavior of this sort- no--and yes- the original ground rules set- were continually stretched and shattered a long while ago- it's the only

questionable behavior since the previous episode with that single guy and that has been over for a year-

And most curiously here- my question from my original post as to whether she is serious or just blowing it out of her ass has not been answered- I have handled all lifestyle faux pas by my wife so that she changes what her behavior is rather than me imposing my will- basic consideration- yes -that and more honesty from here about her desires would be good- I just have to show her somehow that it is in her best interest for US that she open up more to me- thanks to you all for your input up to this point - some are damn enlightening-

Naughtycool

The girl is blowing smoke up your ass. Definitely. Getting drunk? Stuff in the freezer? Don't know (= don't care) when I'm getting home?? I dunno. None of us are in your shoes, so we're only going on what we see in your post. AND we haven't heard her side of things. But if all we have to guess by is what you've told us, I'd say she's got some unresolved anger issues that she's passively-aggressively trying to take out on you. She's not communicating very well with you. Oh she's saying something allright, but she's not exactly taking the most direct or honourable route to do it. If you're reading this Mrs. NC, I'm sorry for sounding harsh, but I'm just calling it like I see it. My personal opinion is, if you have an issue with someone that's big enough that it's detracting from your relationship with that person, you have to decide what it is you're expecting of them, and tell them. And you pull no punches in doing so, nor do you use manipulation of any sort. You just tell it like it is. Painful at times, yes, but I've found it's probably a lot more like pulling a bandaid off really fast. Easiest to just have done with it. You'll have to deal with it eventually anyhow. And this from probably the biggest hater of confrontation you're likely to meet! :rollseyes

 

Just a side note: The fact that she called home to tell you she was getting drunk speaks volumes. Excessive alcohol + swinging = disaster waiting to happen. Too much alcohol (or any other mind-altering substance) screws up your judgment, which you need FULL control of if you're serious about swinging. She wasn't sensitive to the fact that you would now be concerned for her safety and welfare after disclosing this to you. Was she aware of the vulnerable position she put herself in? Or the anxiety I'm sure it caused you? Of course, it really depends on how comfortable you feel with this other guy. If you trust the guy with your wife's life, then I guess it's a non-issue. But to loosely quote CuriousAgain (one of our well-respected single board members), would you trust the guy enough to go hunting with him? How comfortable are you walking in front of him knowing he's carrying a loaded gun?

 

If I'm way off base, I apologize.

[curiousagain 326]

Naughtycool, I'm sure you have enough conflicting thoughts and ideas on your own without more thrown in the mix by we who don't really know your situation as completely as you.

 

But, if you plan on wooing your wife back in some semblance of the manner in which you originally did, I have to wonder, will this be reciprocated? You may bring her flowers and take her to her favorite places and rub her feet at night; will she cook your favorite desserts, dress for you, and give you blowjobs in the stairwell at work?

 

A ship can't sail with all of the ballast on one side and a relationship can't go with all of the giving on one side. If both of you are committed to making the relationship work then by golly give it your all. If she's going to make you crawl around and search for ways to please her while she is doing as she pleases without any consideration for you then grab your hat and your coat and your wallet now.

 

You do have worth and your needs, feelings, and emotions are as important as hers. Being a couple takes two people, two hearts, and two minds.

 

Good luck in whatever path you choose.

[intuition897 2,179]

An apology is in order! I misquoted. It wasn't CuriousAgain who made the hunting comment, it was JnCC! Very sorry about that JnCC. Credit where credit is due.

[BodyScape02 21]

This is the one that gives me the greatest advice and I feel hits the nail on the head-in whats happended and where I need to go-

Naughtycool

 

 

I am peclimped....( coffee talk people will get that)

 

I wish you the best... I don't often give "pc" or "feel good" advice but I do strive to be objective and honest....My failing is that I am a very plain speaking individual to the point of being blunt... that is often not a very valued trait.

 

My girlfreinds know better than to ask me " does this make me look fat?" ...unless they really want an honest answer.

 

Ms. B

[montresor 19]

Just a little off point... Bodyscape02, please explain "peclimped!" I drink coffee like nobody's business, but I don't know that one.

[txduo2000 18]

I am peclimped....( coffee talk people will get that)

 

I wish you the best... I don't often give "pc" or "feel good" advice but I do strive to be objective and honest....My failing is that I am a very plain speaking individual to the point of being blunt... that is often not a very valued trait.

 

My girlfreinds know better than to ask me " does this make me look fat?" ...unless they really want an honest answer.

 

Ms. B

 

 

Not sure, but I think it was "vaclempt" (sp?). lol

 

Do we have any 60-ish jewish women on the boards? Or was it a NY thing?

[BodyScape02 21]

Just a little off point... Bodyscape02, please explain "peclimped!" I drink coffee like nobody's business, but I don't know that one.

 

 

It is from a Saturday Night Live skit with Mike Meyers were he does a jewish aunt... Pleclimped is basically ...choked up..touched...honored and embarrassed sort of thing...

 

Sorry I forget that this board is very multinational at times...

[RNDNV 16]

Well Naughtycool, now that I have read this whole thread, I can honestly say that this thread is an excellent mirror for your present situation in life, and frankly, I think the communication problems (if there are any) start with you!

 

Honestly, I have read all your posts, and frankly, I am not really clear about what went down other than what is clear is that you created your own results. I SUSPECT you guys are in a bad patch, and, it APPEARS to be getting worse, and, it SEEMS that you guys are in poor communication with each other, but at the end of the day my unclear perceptions are due to YOUR LACK OF ABILITY OR SIMPLE UNWILLINESS TO GIVE US THE FULL AND COMPLETE STORY!

 

I agree that hearing your wife's version would help, but I suspect that you could no more get your wife to read this thread and contribute to it (so that we can give you advise that might help you) than you could "prevent" your wife from screwing other men at her whim.

 

At the end of the day, your wife is a free and autonomous spirit who is free to do what she pleases, and if in exercising her choices she does things that hurt you, and she knows that it hurts you but does it anyway, then your relationship is decaying, and frankly, trying to "whoo" her back is just placating to her need to have her esteem pumped.

 

For you to get any real advise here, you need to be more detailed as to what went down that night (I am still unclear if the first guy is the same second guy, or if they are two different men), AND your wife needs to chime in with her side of the story.

[JnCC 24]

I was a bit surprised at how quickly people advised simply "quitting" on the whole thing and seeing the divorce lawyer - but then I looked at the way their status was listed and figured - makes sense. Quitters quit...

Oh dear, I knew if I walked past the cage I'd set off one of 'em. If only life were as simple as a Nike tennis shoe ad...

 

Where did you see me or anybody else telling him to leave his marriage? The gentleman's wife has essentially torn up their "swinging contract"...she may be at high risk for tearing up the "marriage contract" as well. All I was suggesting is that in light of her past deception and the fact that she's increasingly focused outside her marriage for companionship, he might be well advised to weigh his marital options and protect his assets if neccessary. That was an opinion shared by several others...are they "quitters" too?

 

BTW - It's presumptuous of you to "look at the way my status was listed [on my profile]" and make a general assumption about my character. You know nothing about me, of the battles I've fought (and in some cases, continue to fight) or of the people who benefit daily from my perserverance in those matters. I would never look at your marital status and assume that you're "a guy who lacked the self-confidence to imagine, or the skills necessary to achieve, a happy, self-actualized life absent the ties of matrimony." Please do not assume that "single" equates to "quitter" when looking at mine.

I think the sensitive advice from folks who know nothing of your situation would come from the angle of valuing marriage and making it work. I suppose not everyone shares those values.

Many single/dovorced people "value marriage" every bit as much as you presumably do. In fact, it could be said that they respect it far too much to stay in a bad or abusive one indefinitely, as so many seem to do. It would be wise to keep that in mind when making assumptions about people based on their marital status.

[BodyScape02 21]

...Many single/dovorced people "value marriage" every bit as much as you presumably do.

 

In fact, it could be said that they respect it far too much to stay in a bad or abusive one indefinitely, as so many seem to do. It would be wise to keep that in mind when making assumptions about people based on their marital status.

 

Touche` excellent point. I would agree with you there... but I think his comment comes more from the ... "can't see myself ever in that position" perspective.

 

But the personal attack was a bit uncalled for. It comes with the territory ( I know..lol) if you offer strong advice...you will get strong ractions. You knew that.

 

My suggestion to woo the wife back is because I know that even when my abusive ex was at his worst... all I wanted was for him to be nice again... to put me first ...not last. I never cheated on him...and now, I know I will never stand for being disrespected like that again. ( good insight)

 

Everything in the world that is worth while...takes work and commitment. He has to decide what to do and what he can tolerate... perhaps ...soon.. he may need to heed your advise instead of mine...Best to strive for the best, and prepare for the worst.

 

~Cat

[Spoomonkey 421]

Best to strive for the best, and prepare for the worst.

 

I agree with this - and I suppose this was my entire point... It was a personal attack only in the sense that some folks can be a bit predictable - if something negative and offensive can be said, there are those who will figure out a way to say it...

 

Not particularly helpful if you ask me...

 

When a person is facing the worst possible scenario, I assume they know that "desperate measures" may be a possibility. But before everyone hands out a nice big helping of "duh" maybe actually trying to give constructive advice would be the wise first step.

 

I guess I'd just like to see one example of "sorry you're in a tough situation, here's a way you might be able to work through it" rather than the constant "sorry, dude, but you're fucked" responses... I tend to think people ask their questions looking for some sort of help - even if their situations are almost dire.

 

Err on the side of grace...

 

Not a bad way to live...

 

Divorce happens - and it damn well should sometimes. But I don't think it's the first thing a person should try. That's just me - and you're right; I can't see myself in that situation. My life is as easy as a Nike ad...

 

When the first piece of advice is "get thee to a lawyer" it is pretty obvious that the poster is coming from a fatalistic perspective. I just don't share that perspective - and maybe that is why the "Nike ad" shoe fits...

 

Spoomonkey

[Naughtycool 15]

Ok folks- whole story- eh- no prob- been in the lifestyle as I said for 9 years. Mostly clubs and home parties for many years and went average twice a month--then bought a boat- thereby ending any warm weather parties and continued after pull-out- Three summers ago- naturally stopped for the summer and then in the fall went back to lifestyle events- First month Oct/03 my wife partied with a single guy she had been with before and every monthly party after that until the next June (into boating season now!)Around this time-actually a couple months before I had mentioned to her that it was time to cool her jets and party with soembody else once in a while- Didn't go over real well at the timebut we did slow down on attendance and did spend some great time together on the boat- at the end of last boating season fuck buddy came along for a weekend cruise and we all three partied together. Then went to our playpens on a monthly basis but fuck buddy didn't show much until last dec./04 party and at that paty- they did not get together- wasn't a few weeks late and either one of them contacted each other again. We went to several more parties until this past April and haven't been back since- yes- I figured we needed the break especially after Mr. Fuck Buddy and she got too close and wsan't until this past incident that ANYTHING has happened..

So--- Yes- we have partied singly before but always in the context of a club or party- never out in the straight world- and so when our friend- (her party friend from 6 years ago, and mine from recent business dealings) called and said he would be in town and would like to take us to dinner- "Sure let's go"- as I reiterated before- At the time found I had to make a later appt. than normal in my job- I immediately called her and him and said I would catch up with them later- Hers lwas the last phone call and that was when she asked me- " What if he wants to hae sex with me" and to which I replied- " whats the matter- you're a big girl; can't you say no?" And she said yes- Done deal in my mind! Not to worry! That was at 4 pm.- at 6 pm she called and told me something about our son and is when she added- "there is something in the fridge for you and I don't know when I'll be home"- HHHMMMmmmmm??????

So wen to my appt. and called her at the restaurant at 7:37-and said not quite sure when I will be finished here but should be home by 9-ish- Ok she says and told me abouyt something else in the freezer- WWWHaaaat???? I think when I hang up? Finish my business withing the next ten min. and sure enought arrive home at 9:10 thinking I will hit the bathroom and change and go to the restaurant and have a drink with them- BUT!!!! Noticed something awry with the batroom wastebasket which was overful- (not my wife!) and thought HHhmm- better empty that so that the cats don't go digging for stuff- and lo nd behold-- I find a fresh empty douche bottle----WAIT A MINUTE!!! I think- she had to be thinking about having sex with him before she left-(picked her up at 7) as certainly th 6 o'clock phone call with -stuff in the fridge and don't know when I'll be home began!!!!

RING RING- 9:15 - Yes I'm home -and are you finished with dinner-- yes- you're in the bathroom?- okay- have a good time- yes- should be home soon?- don't know- okay(?)--- go ahead and eat and I will see you later- Okay-- love you- love you- bye-click-

RING RING- 9:53- Hello? Hi- in the bathroom again - boy am I getting drunk- Great- Don't know when I'll be home- Okay- don't be too much later- you do have to wrok tomorrow-

Oky- Okay Love you- Love you- click

12:05 - He drops her off - she is surprised to see that I am still up- she staggers a little walking in-

"you still up?- " of course, rested a little" Where are you coming from? "His hotel-- "the lobby?" "No, his room" -

"And what did you do?"

"Looked at pictures and had sex"-

So - full story-

after that she says -"are you jealous?" "No - just a little confused as to what you had planned the whole evening long without telling me"-

"What do you mean"-

I mean- if you weren't planning on having sex with him in the first place- why did you douche?

"You found that?"

"Yes-"

" I was going to hide that, too" she said-

 

AGAIN- since she did it behind my back and kept leading me away from meeting them and now says- party with whomever- - - Is she just feeling guilty that I found out her intentions after our initial 4 pm. conversation, and just said to go party to get a reaction - or just talking out of her ass?

Naughtycool

p.s. as for Mrs. NC's comments here- she wouldn't even admit that the previous fuck buddy and she got in over theri heads- that she said was all my fault!!!! Because of the way I acted with him around her- Oh well- she's not used to a husband acting like a husband that wants to keep his wife!

[txduo2000 18]

My opinion: Not guilt ... she's talking out her ass.

 

If you want your marriage, then get out of swinging and into marriage counseling, immediately!!!!

 

If you are ready to give up ... take JnCC's advice.

 

Man, I am a woman and there is NO way in HELL I would ever pull ANYTHING like that ... and I have actually CHEATED on my husband in the distant past. We recovered, but I think that this is so awful. It hurt my heart to read what you wrote! I am NOT justifying my cheating - anyone who has read my posts about that situation will agree that by no means do I justify what I did, but I will say that for her to do something so blatant, and basically RUB IT IN YOUR FACE ... OMG ... inexcusable!!!!!

[Mark&Beth 15]

I agree with spoo on this baby! but don't give up. U know, sometimes women (especially when insecure) will self destruct - expecting the man to take the lead and prove themselves

Even though u aren't the one in this case to screw up. Perhaps she knows deep down that she screwed up and is afraid it is all over - so why the hey not!! just go all out!

 

Be there for her - you obviously love her. As EvilMJ suggested. Pull away from this lifestyle to get you and your beloved back to where u were able to be open. to be one again.

 

Its so easy in this lifestyle to loose perspective.

 

Just be there for her (not that u aren't already) but she is obviously not reacting with reason - just emotion.

 

And remember why u fell in love with her. Remind her why u fell in love with her.

 

My husband and I have regular time together to remember each other so to speak. So we never loose ourselves.

 

I hope that everything works out for the best hun!

Beth

[JnCC 24]

...the personal attack was a bit uncalled for. It comes with the territory ( I know..lol) if you offer strong advice...you will get strong ractions. You knew that.

Actually, if you offer ANY advice that hasn't been cleared through "The Central Committee" you'll get "strong reactions"...but usually from one of only about 4 people on this board.

 

THEN you'll get an e-mail or a phone call from somebody else, saying "Thanks...for telling it like it is and keeping it real around here."

 

But then you knew that, didn't you?

 

I consider myself a "combat veteran" of The Divorce Wars, and as such would NEVER suggest that as the first course of action when things are going wrong in a marriage. Although I'm still on friendly terms with my 1st and 3rd wives (maybe too friendly according to some people) I know firsthand the pain it causes kids, friends, and other family members to see a family unit dissolved. I'm also quite familiar with the financial devastation, not to mention the erosion of parental rights, a person can suffer when he's focused on avoiding a divorce that she sees as her ticket to an early retirement.

 

I've been around enough to know that there's 2 sides to every story, and I'm only responding to one side of this one, but from the sounds of things, "life" is serving this guy a shit sandwhich, and he's not quite sure what to do. As my detractor stated in his previous post, my advice was predictable..."Go see a doctor, immediately...you don't HAVE to eat that sandwich!" (except I said "lawyer") There's a reason I specifically said that he "didn't need to [do anything official] yet." Hope springs eternal.

 

Apparently some people are either so attuned to what I'm going to say, or in such a hurry to start their personal attack, that they don't bother to READ THE WHOLE FUCKING POST. It's the typical, Fire! Aim! Ready! response one sees in lower primates.

 

My philosophy is simply this...without honesty and candor, this board, like any other, is useless as a source of information...and boring as well. If you or I have to tailor every post, every response, and every opinion to "Captain Sunshine" and his committee of 3, then there's no use posting at all...we can move to another board, and they can start using a canned response. That'll be easy for them, since they only have one;

 

"You just need to work on your communication and your marriage will turn out fine...JUST LIKE OURS!"

 

I sincerely hope the OP and his wife get things sorted out. (I DETEST the Divorce Industry and the parasites that thrive off of it) But in the event that things don't work out, just maybe I've set into motion some action that will ultimately keep that guy from having to drive past what used to be "his" house, "visiting" what used to be "his" kids, and wondering what she and her newest live-in flavor-of-the-week are watching on what used to be "his" wide-screen TV.

 

Yea, life IS easy...IF you're a tennis shoe and don't mind being stepped on all the time.

[Guest pickyourown]

any lady willing to answer some questions that are bothering me?

[Guest pickyourown]

need advice from a woman anyone willing?

[txduo2000 18]

need advice from a woman anyone willing?

 

 

What advice do you need? It might get better exposure/response if you start a new thread rather than beginning your questions in an existing thread started by someone else?

[intuition897 2,179]

...Around this time-actually a couple months before I had mentioned to her that it was time to cool her jets and party with soembody else once in a while- Didn't go over real well at the timebut we did slow down on attendance... I figured we needed the break especially after Mr. Fuck Buddy and she got too close...

12:05 - He drops her off - she is surprised to see that I am still up- she staggers a little walking in-

"you still up?- " of course, rested a little" Where are you coming from? "His hotel-- "the lobby?" "No, his room" -

"And what did you do?"

"Looked at pictures and had sex"-

So - full story-

after that she says -"are you jealous?" "No - just a little confused as to what you had planned the whole evening long without telling me"-

"What do you mean"-

I mean- if you weren't planning on having sex with him in the first place- why did you douche?

"You found that?"

"Yes-"

" I was going to hide that, too" she said-

...

p.s. as for Mrs. NC's comments here- she wouldn't even admit that the previous fuck buddy and she got in over theri heads- that she said was all my fault!!!! Because of the way I acted with him around her- Oh well- she's not used to a husband acting like a husband that wants to keep his wife!

 

You sound really sincere here. My first reaction? Your wife still hasn't figured out the difference between cheating and swinging. She's cheating. If ever there were defining characteristics of a cheater, they are denial, lack of accountability, and callous disregard for the well-being of others while indulging in their selfishness. Also see 'sneaky', and 'liar'. Anytime a person does something that they would be afraid or ashamed to tell their spouse (as indicated by the used douche in the trash can), consider it cheating. And in my mind, it wouldn't matter if they sealed the deal or not; what matters is she went out of her way to keep something from you for her own benefit at the expense of yours. Whether or not the sex actually ocurred is besides the point.

 

Honey, she needs an intervention. Ok, so you'll be the only one doing the intervening, but whatever. Is this kind of dishonest behaviour acceptable to you? If it's not, you may need to take drastic action. Draw your line in the sand and tell her that her terms for 'open marriage' are unacceptable to you. You require that you are her priority over others. If SHE cannot live by YOUR terms, then perhaps Mr. Fuck Buddy would be a better match for her. Suggest it in all seriousness. And be prepared for her to 'call your bluff'. Perhaps when she finds out that it's no bluff, she may rethink the value of your relationship. Give her one of those "uh-oh" moments. You know, like those moments when you realize too late that you just hit 'send' on a nasty email to the boss? The risk here is that she may be too far into her denial to realize she screwed up royally (see the part in the quote above about how she blames you whenever she's found out). In which case, she's just shrug indifferently and say, "Fine, fuck ya!" and walk away mumbling that it's all your fault, that you don't know what you just lost... :rollseyes Right. If this is her attitude, the only thing you've really lost is 120 lbs (or a lifetime supply) of misery. No one deserves to be disrespected or lied to, and you shouldn't settle for it. Again, that's just my opinion.

 

Not every couple is meant to be. How can you tell? I guess when both people are happy with themselves as persons, when they are both living life the way they feel they should be, they still detract from one another's energy. But if you and your wife, at your most ideal selves, suit one another, there is still hope. I'm a firm believer in the value of searching for truth. Is it not better to discover the truth of one's relationship before one has wasted an entire lifetime living a lie? If the truth is that you love and suit one another, that you could be assets to one another's lives, then the rest is just a matter of a lot of work and dedication (a LOT!).

 

We wish you luck!

[Naughtycool 15]

I agree with spoo on this baby! but don't give up. U know, sometimes women (especially when insecure) will self destruct - expecting the man to take the lead and prove themselves

Even though u aren't the one in this case to screw up. Perhaps she knows deep down that she screwed up and is afraid it is all over - so why the hey not!! just go all out!

 

Very astute! this is what has happened in her previous relationships(and marriage) and a pattern that I am very aware of- -

In fact- I have gone so far to say to her that - if it were not for our participation in the Lifestyle that she probably would have cheated on me in the straight world- as she did with her ex- husband and following committed relationships-(tit for tat cheating was the norm) I saw those red flags early in our relationship, and as long as we had ground rules in effect for the lifestyle- everything was aboveboard, committed and very passionate-

With the last Fuck buddy and that situation, passion was lost - as well as naturally , the ground rules, and as was said somewhere in this thread- acountability for her actions-

So- yes our relationship works on many levels, IS worth keeping and working on, and we do love each other very much-

I believe that her behavior is based on her being molested as a child by a family member-as how could someone you love hurt you?-and therefore- she hurts back in an effort to avoid being hurt first- not that I would, or have ever cheated or anything like that- I believe its an inherent mechanism she has to control perceived and pre-conceived threats-

I know I have lots of work to resolve her habits and defense mechanisms as I AM- the only person in her life to have not consciously betrayed or hurt her in that manner-

[curiousagain 326]

In fact- I have gone so far to say to her that - if it were not for our participation in the Lifestyle that she probably would have cheated on me in the straight world- as she did with her ex- husband and following committed relationships-(tit for tat cheating was the norm) I saw those red flags early in our relationship, and as long as we had ground rules in effect for the lifestyle- everything was aboveboard, committed and very passionate-

With the last Fuck buddy and that situation, passion was lost - as well as naturally , the ground rules, and as was said somewhere in this thread- acountability for her actions-

So- yes our relationship works on many levels, IS worth keeping and working on, and we do love each other very much-

I believe that her behavior is based on her being molested as a child by a family member-as how could someone you love hurt you?-and therefore- she hurts back in an effort to avoid being hurt first- not that I would, or have ever cheated or anything like that- I believe its an inherent mechanism she has to control perceived and pre-conceived threats-

I know I have lots of work to resolve her habits and defense mechanisms as I AM- the only person in her life to have not consciously betrayed or hurt her in that manner-

 

 

Take it from an EX "fixer", you cannot fix people. They can fix themselves and they sometimes need help but you cannot love them enough or try hard enough to pull them kicking and screaming through the process. You can only support them as they slog through themselves.

 

Be careful you are not her enabler in her behavior. By tolerating it, you very well may be. And, it may be that you are just another in a string of relationships she has thrown away with her behavior. At some point she may realize the errors of her ways and she might not. Just don't let her drag you down with her. As far as her being abused as a child, don't let her use an excuse as a reason and you shouldn't use it as a reason to allow her behavior. Anybody can rationalize a behavior.

 

To reiterate, I am only going by what's posted here and am basing much of my thoughts on my experiences, training, and practice. Your milage may vary, your opinions may vary. But, these are mine.

[Naughtycool 15]

No - in fact her molestation is buried very deep and was only brought up once- cartainly not going to rationalize or allow it as a reason- I'm just aware of it as a very real factor-

[curiousagain 326]

I'm going to try to back away from this thread for awhile. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear. When you are ready, your eyes will be opened.

 

Best of luck to you Naughtycool. Try to keep some cash stashed somewhere she doesn't know about. You never know when you will come home and the locks will be changed and the bank accounts emptied.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

Be careful you are not her enabler in her behavior. By tolerating it, you very well may be. And, it may be that you are just another in a string of relationships she has thrown away with her behavior. At some point she may realize the errors of her ways and she might not. Just don't let her drag you down with her. As far as her being abused as a child, don't let her use an excuse as a reason and you shouldn't use it as a reason to allow her behavior. Anybody can rationalize a behavior.

I agree, Curiousagain. Lots of people have had lots of crappy things happen to them, but leaning on that for the rest of your life as an excuse to run rough-shod over the people that love you is not right and won't really serve her well. To me, she acted with total disregard for you and what you felt. And what really would stick in my craw is the whole "I was going to hide that too" when confronted about the douche. (Totally aside, douches are harmful to the natural flora and fauna of the vagina and can actually introduce things that lead to a not-so-fresh feeling and should be discontinued). Sounds to me that she's not at all apologetic about hurting you, just sorry that she didn't cover her tracks well enough and got caught.

 

If it were me, (which I realize it was not) it would be time to take a long, hard look at your lives together and decide if this was just a misjudgement on her part, or just the first in a long line of disappointments for you. Then I'd decide whether I wanted to live with what is, or work toward putting my life in a better situation, whether that meant working out our problems together or working them out seperately, with seperate lives. I wish you luck in your tough decisions ahead.

 

Pepper

[sereneiders 263]

Naughtycool,

 

Your whole story somehow clarified the question. Besides that, you cannot avoid you anger and pain when telling it, and it seems to me several answers were given after being carried out by the anger you put in your writting.

 

The point I'd like to make you notice is that you were the focus of her attention all the time.

 

I mean, if she were properly cheating you, she could simply arrange a date with her friend for some other time, and by no means you were noticed the cheat. In such a case, on the same backgrounds, she would be indulging herself without caring of what you think, and if you find out, well, you'll certainly knew she didn't tough of you nor your marriage.

 

But she forgot to hide or throw away the douche and leave it in a place were you most probaibly would find it, and later on, perhaps influenced by the alcohol, she sliped she should had to hide it better.

 

I may bougth the original act could be casual and not an inconcious slip, but I don´t bought it when that happens twice in a row, so I believe both times it was, at least, an inconscious slip, if not something planned.

 

Either way, it doesn't care, what it's obvious to me is that she didn't had sex to indulge herself, she did it TO you and, more important, FOR you.

 

If there were no love for you, if she weren't feeling bad or unconfortable about something in your relation, if there were no feelings at all, then... she could had cheated on you and you wouldn't be noticing it.

 

I believe here is a common place for both of you, a place you may try to take adventage of as to start looking for a solution WITH her.

 

It seems to me both of you have your own wounds, even when none of you are able to notice the other wounds, and, even more important, it seems that both of you already had enough wounds.

 

So, rasing a sword to take revenge, or just try to make her notice of your wounds, while she is wonded too and you cannot notice her wounds, wouldn't help. Someone of you two would have to give up for a moment, start looking for the other's wounds, and take care of them, for the other to do the same later, and since you're the one showing the symptom openly, I think you're the one who should have to give up first... if you're not wounded enough as to quit fighting for your marriage.

 

Up to me, there is something worst than a relation breaking or a divorce, and it is to regret, to live with the nostalgies for that relation while having the doubt that you could have done something to prevent the breaking that you didn't. So, I would fight and drain every resource before giving up.

 

Someone said you're married for as long as the relation can live, and you're divorced for the rest of your life.

 

BTW, the lack of communication just will feed your anger and your ghosts. Facing the unkonw motivations for her acts leads you to explain the facts with your own fantasies and your worst fears. You both have to talk, if needed, get advice, look for a counselor or a common therapy, but I believe the worst you can do is to keep heating this pot with your toughts and your nightmares alone.

 

I hope this to help

sereneiders

[BodyScape02 21]

Actually, if you offer ANY advice that hasn't been cleared through "The Central Committee" you'll get "strong reactions"...but usually from one of only about 4 people on this board.

 

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But then you knew that, didn't you?

 

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It's the typical, Fire! Aim! Ready! response one sees in lower primates.

...

 

My philosophy is simply this...without honesty and candor, this board, like any other, is useless as a source of information...and boring as well.

 

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Yea, life IS easy...IF you're a tennis shoe and don't mind being stepped on all the time.

 

Ok I am calling you on this one... as my momma used to say...

 

two wrongs don't make a right...

 

You are above being this petty and sniping with such vehemance.

 

and yes I do know... I have given the same advice ... and been equally as opposed.

 

Been there done that... get it... don't sully good advice with being petty and persoanlly attacking those who hold an optomistic view.

 

The more I read the guy.... the more I think you are right.

 

But I don't think the fault is all hers. It is never all one person and he who hits the lawyer first and whose mind has been gone from the marriage longer... is able to devistate the person who still "thinks" they have a marriage.

 

Nuff said?