Christian Swingers - Share Your Feelings

[sweetnnasty 15]

Are there any christian swingers out there, and what feelings do you have about swinging? Sorry it's not more in detail... just short and sweet. Any advice would be great... thanks.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Here's a few active topics on the subject:

Swinging and Christianity

Sex and religion

Getting over past morality issues

Liberated Christians website

[sweetnnasty 15]

Thanks I was looking for posts like this but must not have gone back far enough... I am reading them now... thanks.

[jstlkng 15]

We are Christians and very much interested in the lifestyle. We know several people who are professing Christians and have spoken with them. None of us can find any religious prohibition in the Bible for consensual relations. However, there are many who believe we will go to hell for sharing. As yet, we have not selected a couple to swing with...and we may never...we are fairly certain that we will have a hard time finding a couple with the same beliefs we have.

 

Mr. & Mrs. Jstlkng

[Carol_Danny 17]

None of us can find any religious prohibition in the Bible for consensual relations.

 

Isn't there some sort of commandment against that??

 

"Christian Swingers" is an oxymoron if I ever heard one

[jennandjamesinm 87]

Check out libchrist.com - this can help you deal with what is bothering you

 

Jenn

[WesternSwing 504]

Everybody we've played with in the lifestyle have been Christians of one faith or another. The majority in Utah are inactive Mormons. A favorite couple of ours is very devout Catholic and they reconcile swinging with Christianity just fine. They feel it is consenting therefore not wrong. It is something they do in their marriage, not outside of it like cheating.

[intuition897 2,179]

Hopefully Mr. & Mrs. Spoomonkey will answer this thread, too; they always have good insights on this topic.

 

I'm Christian, and a swinger. I have no problem reconciling the two. What I DO have a problem with is finding a church whose doctrines I agree with. I agree with nearly everything, except for the silly concept that a successful marriage = exclusive sex. Period. Mr. intuition and I are very much married, but we are married on our own terms. No one owns our marriage but us, and we do not answer to society. This is a holy union and the only people whose business it is, is ours and God's. When we allow one another the freedom to express ourselves sexually, we are allowing each other to exercise our right to choose. Essentially, this is like a renewing of our vows every time we choose to go home with each other rather than someone else. The longevity of the commitment has no meaning if it isn't given the dignity of any other alternative. So, while it's a risk to allow your spouse the opportunity to choose you again, it forces each of us to take a damn good, hard look at ourselves and assess for ourselves...Are we worth sticking around for? And sex doesn't count. Other partners can potentially offer our spouse the same mind-blowing sexual experience. So what's left? What else do I have to offer, that my partner would stick around for? So when our partner affirms that - yeah! - we are worth something more than just sex, and we DO have something to offer once the bloom of youth has faded. That's the key to longevity of the relationship, I think.

 

Anyway, this is our view of marriage, and we feel that it is more respectful of the person than a "common" marriage, where sexual exclusivity and a one-time promise are expected. Nay, demanded.

 

As far as "sex outside of marriage = BAD!" goes, I have to wonder if it was really God's idea to be so paranoid about a bodily function, or if it's a paranoia of our own (human) creation? All things in moderation, right? Well, sex is just another function of the body, like eating and sleeping. It's a drive that we have, an instinct, and as something created by God, it's not a bad thing. It becomes a bad thing when it is abused. When we have sex with others, we go about it in a responsible, conscientious and ethical manner. If we feel others would be harmed in any way by our playing with them, we wouldn't do it. And we wouldn't do it if we felt it would damage our relationship. Can't see how this is wrong.

 

As I said, hopefully the Spoomonkeys will chime in here and add a few thoughts.

[De and Ci 19]

Just curious, Do any of the Christians here post messages dealing with swinging on the Christianity.com forums?

[sweetnnasty 15]

"sex outside of marriage = BAD!" ...... so if we are not together but know about what each other is doing is it still considered outside of marriage? And what if we are together when doing it but not in the same room?

 

Will never know unless you ask!!

[Spoomonkey 420]

Carol_Danny said:

Isn't there some sort of commandment against that??

 

Nope...

 

Carol_Danny said:

"Christian Swingers" is an oxymoron if I ever heard one

 

Oxymoron - A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.

 

I figured an understanding of the word "oxymoron" would help you better identify them...

 

Since the New Testament raises women above the law's treatment of women being possessions and gives them the same status/freedoms as men... and men through out the Old Testament (and in the New) were pretty much running around doing whatever they wanted with whoever they wanted... And those same men were never really chastised by God for the act of sex, whether within the bonds of marriage or not... In fact, some of these guys were God's examples of living a deeply spiritual life... It is really hard to see how swinging is ever spoken against.

 

Jealousy, deception, hurting others...

 

Those things are talked about at length...

 

Swinging?

 

Not mentioned once...

 

Swinging and Christianity are not contradictory - but don't expect to be asked to teach Sunday school...

[intuition897 2,179]

"sex outside of marriage = BAD!" ...... so if we are not together but know about what each other is doing is it still considered outside of marriage?

 

Well, I've tried debating the merits of swinging with mainstream Christians, and the concensus seems to be that ANY sexual activity that occurs between a married person and someone who is NOT his/her spouse is considered adultery, wrong, sinful, sick, twisted, immature, unhealthy, yada yada yada... Plug the ears, cover the eyes, stick the head in the sand...whatever you do, don't question anything or think for yourself... :rollseyes

 

All I know is, there's no arguing with a person who is completely unreasonable or unwilling to consider that the beliefs they've been fed could be wrong. So for the sake of keeping peace, I rarely argue with Christians about non-monogamous lifestyles unless they choose to press the issue with me. There's no reason to; I'm not going to change their minds, they're not going to change mine, and frankly it has nothing to do with them anyway. It's none of their business what I do with my soul. Don't think I've visited christianity.com yet, De and Ci. Yet.

[Coupleinidaho 15]

"sex outside of marriage = BAD!" ...... so if we are not together but know about what each other is doing is it still considered outside of marriage? And what if we are together when doing it but not in the same room?Will never know unless you ask!!

Does the 10th Commandment bear any relevance here?

 

"Thou shall not covet your neighbor's wife." The same would apply to your neighbor's husband.

[Carol_Danny 17]

Oxymoron - A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.

 

Nope, know exactly what an oxymoron is. Based on the bashing we have personally received the last 20 years from Christian groups, I would say it has become on "oxymoron".

 

Plus, if you do follow the 10 Commandments, I would say that Number 7 puts it in the proper light:

 

7th Commandment; Exodus 20:Verse 14 (King James Version) - "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

- This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.

 

Since most Swingers are married, I would say that it is very contradictory to Christian teachings, and therefore the idea of "Christian Swingers" is a great example of an oxymoron (by your own definition)

 

-- Danny (the lapsed Catholic

[Carol_Danny 17]

Does the 10th Commandment bear any relevance here?

 

"Thou shall not covet your neighbor's wife." The same would apply to your neighbor's husband.

 

The 10th Commandment; Exodus 20:Verse 17 (KJV) "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." was more concerned with wanting possession of something that someone else had, with the wife being considered just a possession. A woman, in biblical times, was considered to be the property first of her father, and after marriage, of her husband.

[Carol_Danny 17]

I rarely argue with Christians about non-monogamous lifestyles unless they choose to press the issue with me.

 

I don't argue with them either. If it is their choice to remain monogamous, and they are truly honest about it, I applaud them. They have their religious convictions, and they stand by them, as they should. I fault no person for that.

 

But just don't go telling me how I should live my life. That I will not tolerate. Because of our moral beliefs, we have very few (well okay, none) friends who are true Christians. We lead very different lives and have so little common ground that friendship would be close to impossible.

[Spoomonkey 420]

Carol_Danny said:

7th Commandment; Exodus 20:Verse 14 (King James Version) - "Thou shalt not commit adultery." - This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.

 

Yes - the Old Testament, including this commandment, did treat women/wives as property. Don't go sowing your seed in another man's field...

 

But - if you read the ENTIRE Bible, you will find that the "wives as property" concept was addressed. Women were given the same rights and freedoms as men. The purpose of the law - and this commandment were to teach folks how not to injure each other. Once that object lesson was taught and completed, it was irrelevant in the bigger picture of grace.

 

So - this verse is an excellent launching point to discuss why women are no longer owned - and why they have the same freedom as married men did in those days.

 

Spoomonkey (not lapsed)

[dayhiker 83]

I'm a Christian and don't see anything wrong with swinging for many of the reasons that have been mentioned above.

In my studying what the Bible said about sex I found that we have changed several of the word meanings in our day from what they meant in Bible days.

 

Adultery being one of them. Its not often that ancient texts define the words they use. But the Bible defines adultery. Lev.20:10 And the man that commits adultery with another man’s wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

 

Countryman – The husband could commit adultery only by having intercourse with the wife (or betrothed) of another man; if he had sexual relations with a slave, a prostitute, a concubine, or a divorced or widowed woman, this did not constitute adultery against his own marriage.

 

It seems to me that the church today wants a category of sins under the title of sex sins. So far in my study of Biblical times there were property sins (like stealing) and personal sins (like hurting someone) bit sexual sins. Obviously sex can be used in both of these categories to do harm.

 

The other category in the Bible where there are sexual sins is the sex that was part of worshiping false gods (idols). Since most people today in the west aren’t worshipping idol, let alone having sex as part of worshipping them, the scriptures that speak of this I find are still preached but the idol part is stropped. This results in sexual activities that were sin because they were done to worship false Gods, but were not inherently wrong to now become wrong in themselves.

 

That’s how I see it, but I’m still studying.

God bless, Rom. 14:22 The faith you have, keep to yourself before God. Blessed is the one who does not judge himself by what he approves.

dayhiker

[intuition897 2,179]

Carol_Danny said:

7th Commandment; Exodus 20:Verse 14 (King James Version) - "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

- This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.

 

Since most Swingers are married, I would say that it is very contradictory to Christian teachings, and therefore the idea of "Christian Swingers" is a great example of an oxymoron (by your own definition)

 

-- Danny (the lapsed Catholic

 

Sorry, Danny, I know you're addressing Spoomonkey. Mind if I comment?

 

I guess you're right that traditional Christians being swingers is a good example of an oxymoron. Traditional meaning mainstream. We're cool with being Christian AND swingers, but we don't interpret adultery the same way most people do. You're right, women were considered part of a man's property along with slaves, real estate and livestock. Since the concept of "owning" a person is no longer applicable, our take on adultery should be reassessed. At least, that's what I think. Adultery is, was, and always will be wrong because it means taking something that belongs to someone else and giving it away. It's the breaking of a promise and betraying the trust that was placed in you. That's what makes it wrong, not the sex. So... since we aren't breaking any promises or betraying any trust by doing what we do...it ain't adultery in our book. And the 'mainstream' can think what they like about that.

 

EDIT>> And Dayhiker, I just looked up Romans 14. That whole chapter pretty much says it all, doesn't it? It's not what we do, but why we do it and the spirit in which we go about it. Romans 14:14 - I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

 

And to paraphrase that: Nothing that God created is bad (including sex) unless it is abused. If a person feels that swinging is a sin, they should not do it. But if they are confident that they are not offending anyone - others, themselves, or God - by their activities, there is no sin in that.

[sweetnnasty 15]

Thanks for all the advice and input... you have made very strong points...

 

Hubby and I have been in this lifestyle for a couple of months and now he says that he keeps thinking of what God is thinking of him... is it just his nerves getting to him?

[Spoomonkey 420]

intuition897 said:

I guess you're right that traditional Christians being swingers is a good example of an oxymoron.

 

Personally, I find "Christian grace" and/or "loving Christian" to be much more of an oxymoron - sadly - than "swinging Christian". Chances are, if that weren't so, Christianity wouldn't raise such an negative reaction, either here or in many of the other marginalized communities.

[intuition897 2,179]

Thanks for all the advice and input... you have made very strong points...

 

Hubby and I have been in this lifestyle for a couple of months and now he says that he keeps thinking of what God is thinking of him... is it just his nerves getting to him?

 

No, it's not just nerves. Like that verse I quoted, if he feels that swinging is wrong and is offensive to God and does it anyway, IMO, it's called sin. Until he can engage in this kind of activity without the guilt of unresolved spiritual conflict hanging overhead, it won't be a healthy hobby for him.

 

My husband isn't the "religious" sort, but I am a Christian. What we do (and how we do it) does not contradict God's vision or His plan for us. What humans have made themselves to be and what God intended for us are two very different things. For me, swinging feels natural and although it isn't popular with Christians, for THIS Christian, I feel truer to the person God intended me to be than if we forced ourselves into the standard little monogamy mould that doesn't really fit us.

 

Have your hubby read Romans 14. No two people are alike, so it only makes sense that we should all worship in our own unique way.

[Carol_Danny 17]

Personally, I find "Christian grace" and/or "loving Christian" to be much more of an oxymoron - sadly - than "swinging Christian". Chances are, if that weren't so, Christianity wouldn't raise such an negative reaction, either here or in many of the other marginalized communities.

 

Unfortunately, Christianity doesn't have a lock on those feelings. All religions have their fundamentalists and very conservative factions.

 

While not a Christian myself (yet I do consider myself to be a spiritual Agnostic), I hold respect for anyone who truly follows their beliefs, and have never had a problem with people of any faith. Although I believe if you say you are a Christian (or Jewish, Muslim, etc.) you should really act like one! 99% of the World's problems could be fixed if people practised what they preached!

[dayhiker 83]

intuition - Yes, I think you got Roman 14. This puts most of the evangelical church in the weak position and the christian swingers in the strong position. I'm personally living Rom.14 as my wife would say swinging is a sin. So while I don't see it as a sin, I can't go out and swing as that would hurt her. Rom. 13 says that love fulfills the law. And love doesn't hurt ones neighbor.

 

This is why I find swinging to be OK for Christians. When couples swing with a desire to love each other they are fulfilling the Law of Love as the Bible talks about. Swingers also says, "no means no". They are willing to stop when a person is saying this hurts. They get to define what is hurt to them.

My wife tells me that the idea of swinging brings hurt to her. So I'm not talking to her about swinging let alone asking her to swing. As a Christian tho I am studying to understand it better and praying that my wife can move from the weak position to the strong.

 

I'm also talking with my pastors about it. Has that lead to some interesting talks. They see spouses that are hurt from adultery and porn addiction. They can't imagine that it can be any other way. They can't see swinging as a good thing. So a year has gone by and in just the last two weeks we have entered into a new part of our talks. They have finally to the place where they are willing to deal with the Bible and what it says on a new level. Its going to be interesting if they will be able to accept it. I'll have a lot of studying to do to faithfully present what I've been finding and I pray I can continue to let God's word teach me as well.

 

At any rate its all out in the open. The Bible says being in the light is good! even if it is kinda intense!

[sepacouple 15]

I checked out the forum section of the christianity.com site. very interesting topics. Found one that went on for 15 "pages" about whether christians should be seen at a Hooters resteraunt. Another was questioning whether or not a couple (married) should engage in oral sex, and I thought we got worked up on some topics on this site. I consider myself a christian also, but I have a hard time agreeing with some of their thoughts.

[TomDenise 16]

We consider ourselves Christian and are swingers. See no conflict at all. PM me if you want to continue this.

[jstlkng 15]

O.K. enough already...as a Christian and a person who has made it a policy to read the entire Bible through each year since I became a Christian over 38 years ago (and not just reading it, but studying its precepts to show myself approved to God,) let me provide a simple explanation of what it means to be a Christian.

 

The first occurrence of the term "Christian" is from a Greek work that means "little Christ ones" or "little imitators of Christ" and was coined by un-believers during Paul's time. It was a term of derision. None the less it was an accurate term. A Christian is simply one who trusts Christ for his destiny and tris to live like Christ during his life on this earth.

 

I can only help in this area by reminding each of you that Christ asked the woman who was accused of adultery where her accusers were? You see, they had disappeared after Christ had knealt and written in the sand with his finger. Do you ever wonder what it was that was written that made all those men disappear? (I don't know either!) Christ did not condemn the woman, rather her forgave her of any sins she had committed.

 

The entire story of what Christ did on this earth has never been told. The apostle John said all the books that could ever be written could not hold all the stories of what He did. But he did several things that I think are noteworthy. One, He refrained from unjust judgements. Two, He forgave freely. Three and I think most importantly, He fulfilled the Old Testament law completely and gave us a new law...the law of love.

 

Some of you have stated that the things that keep you together as a couple are things other than sex. Certainly that is more Christ like than trying to tell Christians that to share each other sexually with others is wrong. If you don't appreciate the sermon please accept my profound apologies for delivering to those who don't want it, but I make no apologies for my sincere belief that "Christian Swingers" will never be an oxymoron. With love and grace in my heart for you all...

[HappyPeople 17]

I doubt that we'd feel very comfortable playing with Christians since we are both have negative feelings about Christianity. That said, I doubt Christian swingers would be interested in us at all.

 

As for if it fits with the Christian faith... As far as I understand it, the relationship between the individual Christian and thier god is unique so as long as they've got a grip on it with thier god, I assume that they are "good" as far as thier faith is concerned.

 

While particular bible verses can be extracted for or against swinging (or pretty much anything), the individual relationship with thier god as it relates to thier life come across as a much stronger message when viewing thier faith from the outside.

 

I could be waaaay off base though since I have only studied it, I've never practiced it.

[Charger500 30]

If you are a true Bible believing Born-again Christian the answer is simple...it's wrong. You can try to hunt around and find odd verses to rationalize the lifestyle but it's sexual immorality pure and simple.

 

Pretty judgemental huh? well, only if you believe what the Bible says is the true word of God.

 

Didn't mean to rain on the parade just my 2 cents

[dayhiker 83]

Thanks for the rain. Rain should help me grow.

 

I've studied the Bible for 40 years and only got what you got when I ignored certian verses in the Bible. Once I accepted the whole Bible I had to change my mind. I'll look forward to meeting you in heaven.

dayhiker

[TomDenise 16]

Rain is good, but uncontrolled rain will wash you away.

 

"Matthew 22:36-40: “ Then a lawyer asked our Lord Jesus, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” Jesus' answer: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.” Here we find Jesus saying the opposite of what law keepers say. From the law the second one is just like the first, equal in importance.

 

What’s Incredible neither one of these are part of the 10 commandments. This first one is found in Deut.6:5 listed under the commandments and statutes and judgments, and the 2nd one is from Lev.19:18 which is alongside the moral laws. Yet Jesus said the 2nd is like the first , unfortunately it is not part of the 10 either. The 10 commandments don’t contain the two greatest commandments but the law of Moses.! Sorry.

 

In Mark 12:28-31, One of the scribes having heard them reasoning together perceiving he had answered them well, asked him “which is the first commandment of all?” (first is translated most important not a numerical order) then Jesus said, the first of all the commandments is this here O Israel the lord our God our God is one and love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength this is the first or... “THERE IS NONE OTHER COMMANDMENT GREATER THEN THESE.” (Mark 12:31)."

 

Lets see, love God first, ok, he established multiple wives and the concubine system in the OT, so he must be ok with it. Check: Good here. Of course we must comply with the law of the land.

 

Love your brother second to God, ok, knowing that loves WORKS NO ILL TO HIS NEIGHBOR, check: Good here. Swinging doenst bring the element of CHEATING (yes CHEATING) into sex so therefore I am not defrauding the husband by cheating (comitting adultry) with his wife. Remember the woman brought to Jesus to be stoned? Where was her husband? SHE WAS CHEATING.

 

IMO, and my opinion only, cheating-deception-breaking trust is the issue.

 

You can find plenty of verses against being DRUNK. Moderate drinking seems to be allowed. Hmmmmmmmmm Perhaps the same principal applies here. It seems to reason God doesnt really care what we do as long as we dont offend God or offend another human.

[WesternSwing 504]

sweetnnasty said:

"sex outside of marriage = BAD!" ...... so if we are not together but know about what each other is doing is it still considered outside of marriage? And what if we are together when doing it but not in the same room?

 

Will never know unless you ask!!

 

I think "not bad". These instances are still something you are doing together, if not physically together. It is something that you both may enjoy. You are both getting something out of it. For many the whole solo play can be exciting and erotic. We know a couple where she plays alone with a male then he comes home and they have great sex playing the "you've been a naughty girl, haven't you?" game. It's their gig and it works well for them.

[xtraman4u 15]

I'm a Christian and a married male swinging with my wife's blessing. Due to health problems she is limited to how much sex she can have. We have struggled with the question of right and wrong about this topic often. As far as the 10 commandments, we all break all of them in God's eye. That is why Jesus came to offer salvation thru Him! Jesus said that when we lust we have committed adultery already. I dare say there is not an adult anywhere who hasn't lusted after someone before. When Jesus died, His blood replaced the law (10 commandments) as the means to salvation. I have met many wonderful couples who professed to be Christians. I believe most of them are genuine in their belief. Is swinging wrong? I don't know. Is overeating? Losing your temper? Etc, Etc? This is my first post on here and I am glad to be a part of this forum.

[GerdOEvert 51]

In the past year, I have had the opportunity to read portions of the Bible in some unstructured Bible Classes. I don't remember the first citation, but early in the Old Testament is a verse and section that is clear in the condemnation of swinging. So what?

 

The Bible gives us general rules for living and general ethics in a first codification.

 

A more serious question would be -- If all couples became "swingers" in the lifestyle, what would it do for the culture? I do think the answer is pretty plain. We would be more depraved than we already are. [sorry to say]

 

Those of us in the "lifestyle" who "swing" have some unusual sexual and psychological needs, and we are fulfilling them. But do not let us think it either is or really should be standard practice.

 

If you looked closely at the psychological make up of those in the "lifestyle" I do think you would find many more quirks & twists than average.

[BorisNatasha 63]

Re: the missing commandments

 

Didn't you guys ever see History of the World Part I? There are 5 missing commandments, and that's why the world is so screwed up!

 

Boris

[TomDenise 16]

GerdOEvert said:

but early in the Old Testament is a verse and section that is clear in the condemnation of swinging.

 

I would like to read it if you can find it. Thanks

[Carol_Danny 17]

Didn't you guys ever see History of the World Part I? There are 5 missing commandments, and that's why the world is so screwed up!

 

Yep, Mel Brooks as Moses dropping the 3rd tablet. That was funny!

[intuition897 2,179]

Been reading some of the responses since I logged on last, and if there's anything I feel compelled to comment on it's the generally distorted view of what Christianity actually is.

 

You know how I'm always harping on about how 'vanilla' folks just don't understand us swingers? How they can't see that it's not about the act of sex with others, that it's actually a loving act between consenting partners, that it fosters intimacy, that it's about respect and the freedom to choose. Sure there are those who swing who shouldn't, who coerce their partners, allow themselves to be coerced or otherwise do it for the wrong reasons, but they are not representative of what it's supposed to be about in its purest form.

 

There are probably a few folks out there nodding and saying 'amen!' to that, but it's the same deal with Christianity. We're all getting tarred with the same stick because some folks who practice Christianity can't see the forest for the trees. All of these good things that we experience in the lifestyle, all of these positives, are very much in keeping with a Christian lifestyle. It was never supposed to be about being perfect or following the rules to a T, nor was it supposed to be about trying in vain to please an impossible-to-please god. It's not about killing off a part of yourself for the sake of 'holiness'. It's about living a full life, balanced and moderate, seeking to perpetuate all that is good in this world, cheerfully making the most of what you've got. Well, there's more to it than just that, but that's what day to day Christian living means to me.

 

Someone said they didn't think they'd want to play with Christians. Well...I wouldn't want to play with them (the Christians) either if they felt that swinging was wrong and were doing it anyway. Personally, I strongly believe that if the marriages involved can handle it, there's no sin in it. End of story. And that's where the problem with religion would end, too, right? Was theere any other reason to not want to play with them? (Not a rhetorical question, I'm actually asking.)

[sweetnnasty 15]

Very well said intuition897...

 

The only problem I seen with some of these posts is ppl not understanding the question... I didn't ask anyone to tell me what they think is wrong with it, but I did ask if there is anyone who is doing it and how they felt about it... please remember that God says do not judge anyone b/c he does not judge you... so with that said thanks to everyone who gave some good advice on the matter... it has helped alot.

[TomDenise 16]

7th Commandment; Exodus 20:Verse 14 (King James Version) - "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

- This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.

 

Then what would you call sex between a married man and his concubine or maidservant?

 

Genesis 16:2 "... go into my maid..." Sarah send her husband, Abraham, into her maidservant Hagar. Did Abraham "sin"??

 

Just an example of interpretation.

 

II Samual 5:13, "David took him more concubines..."

 

I Kings 11:3 King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

 

Something to think about. Was David, Abraham and King Solomon errant sinners? Are they all in Hell?

 

Interpretation is needed. For any verse that can be interpreted one way needs to be balanced by the whole of the Bible.

 

According to the verse quoted above King David, King Solomon and Abraham are all sinners.

 

Dont listen to fundamentalist loonie toons.

[jstlkng 15]

TomDenise said: Something to think about. Was David, Abraham and King Solomon errant sinners? Are they all in Hell?

 

Interpretation is needed. For any verse that can be interpreted one way needs to be balanced by the whole of the Bible.

 

According to the verse quoted above King David, King Solomon and Abraham are all sinners.

 

Very good point. Also there are loonies everywhere...not just in fundamentalist ranks. The sins of Abraham, David and Solomon are more far reaching than any supposed sex sin. It happens that you mention three of the greatest men in the Bible so what does the Bible say about these "sinners"? Abraham was made "father" of a great nation...the nation from which came Jesus, the Savior of the world. David was said by God to be "a man after God's own heart." and Solomon, a man of peace, was given the responsibility of building God's temple. He also wrote the greatest love book the world has ever known, The Song of Solomon. Both He and David wrote many of the Psalms.

 

As a "fundamentalist" Baptist preacher, let me say that God is far more concerned about our relationship with Him than he is with our relationships with other people, whether in or out of bed.

 

Happy Swinging

[TomDenise 16]

Well said jstlkng!!!!!!!!!!

Read back to my post #31 and you will see where I make the EXACT point that you just said.

 

And you well said that the short comings of those three great men were well documented. None of their errors involved sex or multiple partners except David and Bathsheba, where David had her husband sent to the front where he would be killed, so David could have her. Davids sins were, #1, not being with the army during a war and #2, staying home and watching the neighbors wife take a bath. And lusting after her to the point of arranging her husband to be placed in harms way. He paid dearly too, God took the first born son.

 

Lust and covetousness seem to be a big problem. But you can lust after your neighbors car too.

 

I wish you would post more of your thoughts on this subject.

[jstlkng 15]

I appreciate your observations TomDenise...the definition of adultery is best seen in the actions David took with Bathsheba. Had he asked Uriah, he probably would have gotten exactly what he wanted...after all he was the king. That's what happened with Abraham and Sarah when the neighbor king asked for Sarah. Abraham's problem was he gave Sarah away as his sister (she was his sister and his wife), not his wife.

 

The real problem with most people is the inability to tell the truth openly for all to know. Most folks like to scheme to get their way when many times all it takes is to simply ask.

[TomDenise 16]

http://www.libchrist.com/

[HappyPeople 17]

And that's where the problem with religion would end, too, right? Was theere any other reason to not want to play with them? (Not a rhetorical question, I'm actually asking.)

 

I believe that I said that playing with Christians probably wouldn't work for us. I believe that I would be somewhat uncomfortable. Knowing that someone is a person of faith kinda puts me on guard a bit; I feel like I should watch what I say closely as not to offend them. While they probably wouldn't get offended by me, it's just a feeling that I get and it's hard to shake.

 

I say this meaning no disrespect to persons of faith... It's mostly a "me" problem, not them. I wasn't raised in a home with a belief system nor do I know many people who are religious so when I am around them, I kinda tense up a bit.

[Deptydog 15]

My perspective on this issue stems from several areas.

 

First, I am not a christian, although I used to be one. I once got into a long discussion/debate with a missionary about sex without the benefit of marriage. My stance was that if sex was created by God, then who are we as mere mortals to say that having sex is a sin. And if sex was created by satan, then wouldn't God prohibit sex for any reason but procreation? the discussion was longer and more convoluted than that, but you get the idea.

 

Second, I live in Florida. Now, if the south is the Bible Belt, then florida is the buckle. It seems like there's a church on every other corner here.

 

Third, I don't really care what religon a person or couple is. The Mrs. and I have swung with christians, atheists, agnostics, and a muslim couple. Never did theology intrude upon our relationships. As long as someone doesn't try to preach to me, their personal religious beliefs are none of my business. I don't preach my beliefs to others , but I will answer questions when asked.

 

My Mrs. is more tolerant of christians. I think that stems from her upbringing, so the above comments are only from my point of view.

 

I should explain what I mean by "tolerant". I will admit that I get bothered by folks who "wave the bible" and tell me to have a "blessed day", and hollar out hallelujah when they are walking into Wal-Mart (this really happened to me once). I don't paint all christians with the same broad brush, but the majority of christians I've met and known have been huge hypocrites. Not all, mind you. I have known many who were nice, fine people. I have known other nice, fine people who were probably christian, but since it never came up, I don't really know to which theology they subscribe.

 

Not that all that is out of the way, do I thing swinging is a sin? No. Do I think that "christian swingers" is an oxymoron? No. If you can show me a "mainstream" religon that doesn't condemn swinging (except Wicca), I'd be surprised. But there is a fundamental difference there, isn't there. The difference is between being a christian (meaning believer/follower in the teachings of Christ) and being a member of a religon. Religon is created by man, with all the prejudices and baggage that we humans carry around with us.

 

I don't mean to offend anyone here. I'm still new to this forum, but I just thought I'd add my 1/50th of a dollar.

[dayhiker 83]

Deptydog,

I really like your attitude. I think the church needs more people with an attitude like you have.

 

I'd agree with what I understand your perspective to be about sex. God created it. As long as we use sex in a way that doesn't hurt other people or as long as we use sex in a loving way then I don't see any wrong with it. So I'd add to your your point if we use sex with a good motive and consider the other person's welfare than its from God. If we are using sex to hurt then its from Satan ( I could have said from the bad in our own heart). If say a guy uses flattery to deceive a girl into having sex with him then I'd say its not OK with God and Satan is the one that is happy. If a being as evil as he is can be happy!

 

I think you were reading the Bible or understanding the nature of God better than that missionary.

 

For some reason most people in authority (not just church leaders) aren't willing to stand up and say (insert some sexual activity) is OK if its not hurting anyone. I'm willing to make that hurt more than physical hurt. We should be willing to stop if its emotional pain our activity is causing too. Its back to the motivation again. Jesus always brought things back to the motivation. If a partner wants to swing and wants to do it in a way that is loving, then I think the one that is feeling emotional pain at the idea needs to find and see if they can deal with that cause. Be open and honest about the origin of the pain and see if they can get past it. Can they find some healing. If they just can't get past it then we still have to love them and not cause them more pain. We know not ever one seems to be able to deal with the past.

 

Anyways if you read this far, thanks, I just had to say the way I feel this.

 

I'm preaching to myself for the most part! Just smile and shake you head at me of that's what you feel like doing ... smile

[intuition897 2,179]

Deptydog said:

...but the majority of christians I've met and known have been huge hypocrites.

Wow. You sound just like Mr. intuition. lol This is his impression, too. I don't think he and the church got off on the right foot.

 

Deptydog said:

The difference is between being a christian (meaning believer/follower in the teachings of Christ) and being a member of a religion. Religion is created by man, with all the prejudices and baggage that we humans carry around with us.

 

I don't mean to offend anyone here. I'm still new to this forum, but I just thought I'd add my 1/50th of a dollar.

No offense taken! You said it. There is a big difference between being Christian and being religious. Religion is us silly humans trying to organize God to fit into the neat, tidy little space we think He should fit in. Just doesn't work that way.

 

I don't believe anyone should pursue something that detracts from the fullness of their life. If one's 'religion' is starting to take away from one's quality of life, then it's time to rethink one's beliefs. And when I say quality of life, I mean the enriching or refining of one's self. If others like you less because of your religion, if you are offending others and pushing them away from God, or if you can't find any peace because you feel so much pressure to "perform" as a model Christian, something isn't right.

 

Being passionate about one's beliefs is a good thing, but that passion does need to be tempered with an ounce of common sense if we want to keep from pissing everyone else off. Including God. I can just hear Him slapping His forehead and growling, "These kids are driving me crazy."

 

This is pretty simple stuff, folks. It all boils down to the Golden Rule. If we could all just focus on that, the rest would follow.

 

HappyPeople said:

intuition897 said:

And that's where the problem with religion would end, too, right? Was theere any other reason to not want to play with them? (Not a rhetorical question, I'm actually asking.)

 

I believe that I said that playing with Christians probably wouldn't work for us. I believe that I would be somewhat uncomfortable. Knowing that someone is a person of faith kinda puts me on guard a bit; I feel like I should watch what I say closely as not to offend them. While they probably wouldn't get offended by me, it's just a feeling that I get and it's hard to shake.

 

I say this meaning no disrespect to persons of faith... It's mostly a "me" problem, not them. I wasn't raised in a home with a belief system nor do I know many people who are religious so when I am around them, I kinda tense up a bit.

 

Well, it's too bad that it makes you as uncomfortable as it does. But everyone has their preferences, and that's what it's all about: freedom to choose. Thanks for replying, Happy.

[DBL D 120]

Hi Everyone!

 

Great thread...truly.

 

I was raised as a Christian and have always been befuddled by the attitudes among other "Christians". I think what it may come down to is that most of them just decide to err on the side of caution, and then take that message to the masses. The masses have either bought into it or they are as paranoid as can be about what may happen to them in the great tomorrow. Does God want paranoid people in the kingdom?

 

We don't really try to get into what our partners believe in, except for the clues we get from them. If it seems they are too interested in the dark part of sexual relations, we may not play with them again. I prefer to treat everyone with christian ideals and not judge them too harshly, as far as eternal life is concerned. That isn't my job, thankfully.

 

I do appreciate what you all have contributed to this thread though as it shows a lot of thought has been given to the subject. It isn't one to be taken lightly. Ignorance is no excuse for the law.

 

If a couple decides that it is best for them to be monogamous, I'm in favor of that. That works for them and more power to them. I start having problems when people who haven't given much thought to this topic start legislating morality.

 

Since the Bible has been interpreted from the original language, it has to have been fraught with poorly constructed logic and translations, no matter the diligence of the translators. My early teaching had teachers that tried to look at the original words and tell their true meaning. "Agape Love" comes to mind for some reason, as well as the difference between fermented "wine" and unfermented. (Big point in our church.) The real deal is that your salvation is between you and your "god", whomever that may be. None of us really knows the truth. Everything has been so diluted and convoluted that one is left with basics to work with like: Love your neighbor as yourself, Do unto others as you would have them do to you, etc. I'm not so sure that the 10 commandments have been supplanted but I do think that people tend to misread the meanings.

 

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this serious matter. (for Christians anyway.)

[jstlkng 15]

I agree with those who have said this is a great thread...it truly is. Certainly there are those who don't profess to be Christians who are reading this. As Christians we should ever be on the cutting edge of what its like to live a Christ like life. I was thinking this morning about the social aspects of swinging and how I should relate it to my Christianity. Following is my thoughts from a social event I attended recently:

 

First let me set the scene...many of you probably have never heard of a "Fish Camp". Fish Camps are nothing more than restaurants that specialize in southern style seafood dishes. But the Fish Camps around Belmont, NC are unique in some manner as opposed to other types of seafood restaurants. Primarily they are a social happening. The people who go there to eat come from every walk of life. But when you sit down at a table in one of these places with your SO or other friends, you are just as likely to strike up a conversation with the people at the table next to you. Because of the popularity of these places you usually have to stand in line to get a table and there is a free flow of conversation with others in the line. Those conversations are no more nor no less than conversations you might start at church, or if you meet someone at the mall, or maybe at a Friday night high school football game. The catalyst that brings it all together is the unique food enjoyed there.

 

Now the Bible discusses food in various ways. Three lines of thought that come to mind are 1. Food as nourishment, 2. Food for enjoyment, and 3. Gluttony. In each of these only gluttony is stated to be an outright sin. Yet each is fraught with danger from contamination by germs caused by mishandling. Why people have even contracted deadly diseases from simply eating a simple meal. In order to enjoy this social activity most people wash their hands and eat properly prepared food. And all the while they are eating they are socializing with other humans, but they never take food off someone's plate other than their own without permission. They enjoy both the company and the food. No where does this constitute sinning.

 

Swinging for Christians is no less innocent when practiced as the social activity that it is. There is a lot of waiting in line and talking to others to get to know them. There is conversation that takes place between individuals as others engage in sexual pleasure for all to observe. That sexual activity is taking place is no less nor no more sinful than eating in the other social setting. The dangers of sex are no more nor no less than those dangers that exist in eating food prepared out of your sight by people you never will get to meet. If fact, it may be less dangerous, especially if you wash your hands and use the proper prophylactics. And when the swinging is done as a loving, caring expression for physical enjoyment of all, then it becomes no more nor no less than any other social activity enjoyed by humans.

 

Enjoy the social activities God has provided for us without guilt or shame. Use the same cautions and precautions you would for any other social activity. Open you mind to the enjoyment of your partners pleasure and satisfaction and you will begin to understand those of us who find no problem with sharing each other sexually.

 

sweetnnasty had said in one of her posts: The only problem I seen with some of these posts is people not understanding the question... I didn't ask anyone to tell me what they think is wrong with it, but I did ask if there is anyone who is doing it and how they felt about it... Hopefully this will answer your question a little better and shed a little more light on why its not going to send either you or your husband to hell if you share each other with other people.