Upset because husband wants us to stop swinging

[wolfnblu 15]

We were meeting people, things were progressing along nicely.

Then I realized that something he was doing made me uncomfortable...I was getting snippy every time he would do it.

So I told him about it, and asked that he not do it.

He agreed for about a week, but now has rebelled and told me that it won't work like that.....me being able to do this thing, but him not being allowed to.

I said I'm sorry, but that that is the only way it CAN work, because I'm just not comfortable with him doing it.

So he said we're done, then.

So we're done.

(you really think so?)

 

So now we're both a little pissy with each other....him at me for putting this restriction/ultimatum on him, and me with him for his turnaround and ultimatum on me.

 

He wanted to delete our profiles on the swinger sites, but I told him I'd put too much work into it and that he could not delete them. I really think that we will eventually work this out and be back. So I told him to just let them lay dormant for a while and that neither of us should go to the sites to check mail, communicate with others, or even perv the profiles.

 

So, I haven't been there all day. I'm down. I feel like my new favorite toy has been taken away from me. I didn't go to the gym this morning....instead I ate two chocolate long john donuts....and Doritos for lunch. I don't even want to look at all the new sexy clothes websites that I've recently found and have been excited about ordering from, for upcoming lifestyle events (that we've already paid for, I might add). I tried to cancel an order I placed - that he INSISTED I place - for a tshirt that says, "I have the pussy, so I make the rules." He insisted that I order it on Friday (today is Monday). I told him this morning that I was going to cancel it because a) it was stupid, b) it wasn't true, and c) I won't have any place to wear it since we aren't going to be going to any clubs or anything anymore.

 

Yes, I'm pouting. I'm not happy.

Just venting, I guess.

But yes, I am fully aware that if one is not okay with the limitations that the other one puts upon them, that it's ok to say "I'm/we're not going to play under those rules." It just sucks that he said okay at first, and then a week later he's not okay with it.

[ItTakes3 19]

The answer is easy, the implementation may not be. Both of you stop pouting and being snippy. Then discuss it like adults. Whatever the decision turns out to be, it will likely involve some compromises from both of you.

[BodyScape02 21]

It would help if we knew exactly "WHAT" it is you are talking about... all in all ... it makes little sence when you are so vague... no one can help you.

 

This board is a great source of "been there, done that" wisdom... give us a chance.

 

All I can say from what you wrote is: ultimatums do not a dialogue make... and you need to have a dialogue to have effective communication.

 

My heart goes out to you...

 

 

~Cat

[Honey_Tampa 15]

All I can say from what you wrote is: ultimatums do not a dialogue make

 

 

Is there any better wisdom than Yoda wisdom?

 

Great post Cat and I second it.

[wolfnblu 15]

We had dialogue when I told him about it making me uncomfortable. I talked through my feelings, out loud to him, when I realized that I was getting snippy every time he would do this. I knew that it wasn't fair to him....but the fact is that I felt that way, whether it's fair or not. So I owned up to it, told him it made me uncomfortable, and said that I preferred he not do it. He was understanding about it, although not really thrilled to be asked to stop, but agreed to. Then, now, a week or so later, it's not okay with him.

 

Gah.

 

Yes, I guess it's a classic case of what's good for the goose....etc. But who says that in order to be fair, all things have to be equal? What if one person is more comfortable and relaxed, needs fewer restrictions placed on their partner than the other? Should they play tit for tat and place those restrictions on their partner anyway, because those restrictions are being placed upon them? JUST BECAUSE? When, if left to their own devices, would not feel the need to place those restrictions upon their partner, but is doing so just so things are "equal?" I say different people have different comfort levels, and just because things aren't equal doesn't mean it can't work...doesn't mean it's not fair.

[WesternSwing 504]

Dito. I need a bit more information to really understand what is going on. Please fill us in. And, ultimatums never work. An ultimatum is "a final statement of terms made by one party to another" and is not open for discussion. Not a good thing if you want to get somewhere with someone. In swinging especially everything has to be a two-way discussion.

 

Mr. WS

[wolfnblu 15]

Sorry, but I'm afraid to say what it is...mostly because I think you all are going to tell me that I'm not ready for swinging. I want to do this, but I want to do it like our first time - I had total - 1000% control over the situation, down to the point where I told him to put his dick in her. It was understood and agreed by him and her that I could say stop at any time. I didn't, it was very exciting to me.....but now he wants to remove that control, and it scares me.

[wolfnblu 15]

An ultimatum is "a final statement of terms made by one party to another" and is not open for discussion.

Mr. WS

 

Well, yes exactly. What else are you supposed to do when you absolutely will not tolerate an activity because it makes you so uncomfortable?

[WesternSwing 504]

Well, it may be intolerable, but you still need to discuss it, not just say "this is the way it is, take it or leave it" unless you are prepared for the other party to leave it and not take it.

 

Has he violated this rule, or are you making the ultimatum in advance? If it's in advance you have no reason to be so steadfast on it. It's still in the discussion phase.

 

I'm not going to say that you are not ready for swinging, but I will say from the sound of it that maybe you're a bit of a control freak. Your husband is a person to, and not something to be played with and manipulated for you to have your fun. What he heard was "we are going to do it this way or not at all." It doesn't sound like you discussed it with him at all. It was your choice and your choice alone. It sounds like you need to have all the control to have fun, but what's in it for him? Maybe he doesn't want to be controlled. Maybe he wants to be trusted.

 

Swinging is an activity for both of you to enjoy, not just one of you.

 

You two need to discuss it, not make demands on each other. You'll work it out, but the dust needs to settle a little first.

 

Mr. WS

[VegasLee 1,486]

Sorry, but I'm afraid to say what it is...mostly because I think you all are going to tell me that I'm not ready for swinging.

 

If that is the case then maybe you already know the answer. Maybe you are not ready to be doing this.

 

You can not come to people asking for advise when you only want to give them part of the story. That is just fishing for people to tell you what YOU want to hear.

 

Time to be honest with yourself and your Husband. You changed your mind now he is changing his and you don't feel it is fair. Seems something is not being said and is very one sided here.

 

Good luck.

[Sweet_Candy 54]

Let me see if I understand this. You want to be able to say "No" up to the act of penetration for him? There is nothing wrong with this but he has the same right with you. No is suppose to mean No and the speed that this is suppose to move at is the speed of the slowest partner. Am I confused? It would help with the advice if we knew what we were being ask to advise on. Tell us everything please.

[WesternSwing 504]

We had dialogue when I told him about it making me uncomfortable. I talked through my feelings, out loud to him, when I realized that I was getting snippy every time he would do this.

Okay, this sounds like he is overstepping some predetermined boundries.

 

 

I knew that it wasn't fair to him....but the fact is that I felt that way, whether it's fair or not. So I owned up to it, told him it made me uncomfortable, and said that I preferred he not do it. He was understanding about it, although not really thrilled to be asked to stop, but agreed to. Then, now, a week or so later, it's not okay with him.

This is where you two have to decide what is going to be okay for right now. Doesn't always mean it will be that way. Over time, our list of "don'ts" has been shortened considerably.

 

Yes, I guess it's a classic case of what's good for the goose....etc. But who says that in order to be fair, all things have to be equal?

To be fair they don't, but eventually the scales must balance. Eventually to be fair it will have to be equal, maybe not right away, but eventually. If both of you want to remain in the Lifestyle bad enough then you do have to go at the pace of the slowest member, but, the slowest member must realize that they do need to work on those issues so eventually it is more equal, or the other will lose interest. If one is willing to give-up some activities, the slowest member must also be aware they are making concessions and possibly do something in return to compensate for them. Otherwise it is a one way street. No relationship works when the street only runs one direction. Every aspect of a relationship is a comprise. I don't know what to tell you will be the comprimise in this situation, but everybody needs to be happy with the situation for it to work.

 

Mr. WS

[Dave_kat 227]

I'm probably going to stick my foot in my mouth on this one, but from reading the posts and from some guessing, I'm getting that...

 

You have no problem enjoying another person outside the marriage, that you are completely comfortable with being both the center of attention as well as in complete control of the whole event. It seems to me that things had progressed to where you were both enjoying things and got jealous because he wasn't paying attention to your instructions, he was off (nearby) doing his own thing with someone else.

 

Same room swap sort of thing.

 

If I'm wrong you're more than welcome to hit me about the head and shoulders, it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

But to throw out some advise on that. From his point of view, you're getting your cake and eating it too, whereas he is getting leftovers and table scraps. When he gets to move to the adult table next to you, you are not happy. And he's not backing down on being allowed to the table.

 

Ya'll need to talk. No ultimatums, no laying down the law. If you are going to do things together, enjoy things together, it has to suit both of your tastes. Doing things to totally suit one person is going to make the other very upset after a while.

 

You both need to seriously sit down and tell each other what you like and don't like about swinging, about sex, and then develop rules if needed to suit those. Rules both of you agree upon. If you can't find some middle ground, then take a step back.

 

Dave's view only, Kat will be beating me up later for going there on her own, once she reads this.

[wolfnblu 15]

I'm not going to say that you are not ready for swinging, but I will say from the sound of it that maybe you're a bit of a control freak. .......Maybe he doesn't want to be controlled. Maybe he wants to be trusted.

 

He has said both of those things. That I am a control freak, and that I should give him more credit than I do....trust him more. So you're probably right on target.

 

A little history...the first time we ever played with someone else, it was spontaneous. With a longtime girlfriend of mine. We were all drinking, and it was just the right time, right place, right thing for all of us to do. There was no penetration, she and I teased him mercilessly, and then she gave him a blowjob.

 

The second time was years later, with the same girlfriend. We had talked about inviting her to our bedroom (figuratively) for years, during lovemaking. It was very exciting to talk about. Finally, we decided to start calling her and flirting with her, made a "date" with her, until the point came where I just outright told her that I was okay with anything that she and he wanted to do. And I was. I wanted him to fuck her, I wanted to watch it and be part of it. And I was. But I was comfortable in the knowledge that I *could* stop it if I wasn't feeling okay with it. So....from the start - I controlled everything....especially WHO it was. It was my longtime girlfriend, I trusted her, and she had known us both for many years. It sounds shitty to say it, but I knew that I was the "alpha female"....superior to her IN HIS EYES in every way....and had nothing to lose.

 

The "thing" that I am talking about that this thread is all about is going to sound very trite, probably. Our arrangement, since he works all day and is gone, had been that I had been the one who would perv the profiles and browse the members, looking for suitable couples. When I found a couple whose profile showed a pic of the husband as well as the wife, and when I thought both of them were attractive to our standards - not just him, I looked at her, too even tho I am not bi, I know the general type that my husband is attracted to - and I would put them into our "Friends." There were MANY couples in there for him to "choose" from....we would talk about them and decide together who to contact and who to delete from "Friends."

 

That's not good enough for him. He now wants to be able to perv the profiles....go through all of them, looking for couples for us like I have been. But I don't like it. It makes me feel like he is "on the prowl", looking for someone to fuck. Which I guess he is, that is what this is all about, but I want to choose who he will fuck and who he won't. I guess I could have gone along with it and said he could, but in my heart I feel like I would have found some reason to disqualify any couple he found because I would know that SHE is the primary reason he selected them.

 

For 13 years we have been together, and he has never, NEVER made me jealous. Never even looked at another woman. I know you are saying, Yeah sure, he has looked, he's human. But honestly if he has, I never knew it. He has treated me like a princess, adored me, admired me, lusted after me, has made me feel like I am the only woman in the whole world who could turn his head.....and now suddenly I am supposed to be okay with him SEEKING OUT someone else to fuck?

 

I really am okay with him doing someone else with me present.....and with me involved with her husband at the same time.....but I think I will feel inferior or something to her if I don't pick her out.

 

And it's not like I put unattractive women in our Friends. They are, they are really attractive, as are their husbands. But for some reason, I feel the need to choose her, not let him choose her from the general public on the site. I have put like 20 or so couples into our friends, it's not like he didn't have anything to choose from.

 

So last night, when this all came to a head, he was surfing the site....catching up on emails that we had received during the day like always, and started reading the forums on the site. Not this site, on the ad site. Some girl on there had some amusing posts, so he perved her profile. He looked at all the pics in their Main/Public Gallery. He looked at all the pics in their restricted Gallery. He commented on their location. There were a couple of pics of her husband in there, and he asked me if I liked bald guys - which is sort of a joke between us because there seem to be an abundance of short, bald guys in this lifestyle around here - and I don't particularly go for short bald guys....just really taking too much of an interest in her for my liking. In the first place, they live like 2.5 hours from us, and he wouldn't even drive an hour away for an event that I wanted to go to last weekend because it was too far. Secondly, she is 28 years old, and we had not been looking at 20-somethings (we are 39 and 40). So I got snippy at him perving her when he was not supposed to be, had agreed not to do that. He got defensive. Fine! Fine! Blah.

 

It is a control thing, I know it.

[wolfnblu 15]

I'm probably going to stick my foot in my mouth on this one, but from reading the posts and from some guessing, I'm getting that...

 

You have no problem enjoying another person outside the marriage, that you are completely comfortable with being both the center of attention as well as in complete control of the whole event. It seems to me that things had progressed to where you were both enjoying things and got jealous because he wasn't paying attention to your instructions, he was off (nearby) doing his own thing with someone else.

 

Same room swap sort of thing.

 

If I'm wrong you're more than welcome to hit me about the head and shoulders, it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

But to throw out some advise on that. From his point of view, you're getting your cake and eating it too, whereas he is getting leftovers and table scraps. When he gets to move to the adult table next to you, you are not happy. And he's not backing down on being allowed to the table.

 

Ya'll need to talk. No ultimatums, no laying down the law. If you are going to do things together, enjoy things together, it has to suit both of your tastes. Doing things to totally suit one person is going to make the other very upset after a while.

 

You both need to seriously sit down and tell each other what you like and don't like about swinging, about sex, and then develop rules if needed to suit those. Rules both of you agree upon. If you can't find some middle ground, then take a step back.

 

Dave's view only, Kat will be beating me up later for going there on her own, once she reads this.

 

No, sorry....it's not like that. I just posted more info, hope that helps you all understand.

 

We haven't been naked with another couple yet. We've met one couple, made out with them kissing and stuff some. They contacted us. I was okay with that. We met another couple this past weekend, they also had contacted us. I seem to be okay with another couple if they contact us first. I just am not okay with him seeking out another couple for us to play with.

[BodyScape02 21]

Honey.... Calm down and take a breath... this is an easy hurdle to get over.

 

First... let me point a few things out that are not obvious to you do to your emotions:

1. He is doing this on YOUR profile... not a private one as a single male. He is being up front and running things past you.
2. He is looking for you both... not solely for himself.
3. He has to be interested in her also... not just you interested in her for him.
4. He is assisting in the search, not hijacking it
6. How would you like to be in his shoes… having him choose exclusively for you… I suspect you would not be amused.
7. He is justifiably irritated at your behavior.
8. This problem has an easy solution

 

So you're asking "What" correct? As I said breath... your snipping is about your concern you are not "good enough" for him or in some way connected to your own insecurity in you place in his life ( ie Alpha female)( choosing a wolf moniker appears appropriate for you, so I will run with the analogy...lol).

 

He is not doing this behind you back... he is asking to hunt with you...like a wolf... in the pack. If you lighten up and let him, you will guarantee greater success in the hunt and more for you both to eat.

 

You can't expect him to want to sleep with only the gamma female you feel comfortable with... you are hunting prey ( wolf analogy in effect here) That means you are playing with prey species ... not looking for a replacement mate to you.

 

 

Compromise... surf together (not necessarily, exclusively together) and decide together. Open your mind a little and see it is you who he adores... he is not looking for a replacement. He is shopping for you. Just like you were shopping for him. The gift is with you in mind.

 

 

BREATH... kiss him and hug him and work with him... you love him, which is why you are protecting your territory... just let go of the choke hold you have on him and let him breath... Shopping is part of the fun…let him have fun shopping with you.

 

Work together.

 

~Cat

[Dave_kat 227]

OK. So I deserve all of the hitting I get.

 

My only response is this. It's a control issue of your approval for the ladies first, before he gets a say?

 

I would seriously suggest then you both going through the profile sites, and ya'll both making lists of who you like and who you don't like. What fits each person's view of who would be suitable.

 

Kat and I have been together for 12 years now, and every time I think I have her tastes pinned down, she goes and throws me for a loop. It's not "not knowing" but there might be something there that I've missed.

 

You both don't make a contact until you both agree on a couple. But I wonder just how different the lists might be? Human nature to err, to think they have a thing down when there is just one nuance missed.

 

Besides, it sounds like he was getting something more so out of the site than just the profiles, although "perving" one is what set this off. He might have seen something in this youngster that you did not, or had eliminated because of age when her/their spoken words seemed more mature than their years.

 

We initially started seeking in our own age bracket. We threw that out a long time ago when we found a couple who were 20 years older than us, but we clicked with from the start.

 

You say you're not comfortable with him seeking another couple to play with. Would this be after you found the couple, or him finding them first that would also meet with your approval?

[WesternSwing 504]

The "thing" that I am talking about that this thread is all about is going to sound very trite, probably. Our arrangement, since he works all day and is gone, had been that I had been the one who would perv the profiles and browse the members, looking for suitable couples. When I found a couple whose profile showed a pic of the husband as well as the wife, and when I thought both of them were attractive to our standards - not just him, I looked at her, too even tho I am not bi, I know the general type that my husband is attracted to - and I would put them into our "Friends." There were MANY couples in there for him to "choose" from....we would talk about them and decide together who to contact and who to delete from "Friends."

 

That's not good enough for him. He now wants to be able to perv the profiles....go through all of them, looking for couples for us like I have been. But I don't like it. It makes me feel like he is "on the prowl", looking for someone to fuck. Which I guess he is, that is what this is all about, but I want to choose who he will fuck and who he won't. I guess I could have gone along with it and said he could, but in my heart I feel like I would have found some reason to disqualify any couple he found because I would know that SHE is the primary reason he selected them.

It does sound rather insignificant, actually, and more about you being slightly insecure, hence being somewhat a control freak to make you feel good about yourself.

 

There should be no reason that he can't do the same as you, puruse the profiles, find those he's interested in and you may be, and then have you look at them with him before contacting any. There is nothing wrong with this at all. You have been picking guys you're interested in with wife's you feel he'll be interested in based on her looks for quite a while. He should be able to do the same.

 

I can tell you that it's not always looks either. I've been attracted to some women just because of who they are as a whole package, not just physically. Mrs. WS has suprised me on more then one occasion by being attracted to men that are not her "type" because of who they are when she got to know them.

 

You're hubby just wants more say-so in who he gets to be with. The arrangement you have right now borders on "taking one for the team" for him.

 

For 13 years we have been together, and he has never, NEVER made me jealous. Never even looked at another woman. I know you are saying, Yeah sure, he has looked, he's human. But honestly if he has, I never knew it. He has treated me like a princess, adored me, admired me, lusted after me, has made me feel like I am the only woman in the whole world who could turn his head.....and now suddenly I am supposed to be okay with him SEEKING OUT someone else to fuck?

Yes, you are. You are doing it and he is okay with it. Give him enough credit that he is not so stupid that anybody can baffle him and he'll follow. Give youself enough credit that you have more to offer to him then any other woman out there. You will always be his princess and you have nothing to worry about. He's probably already proved that.

 

I really am okay with him doing someone else with me present.....and with me involved with her husband at the same time.....but I think I will feel inferior or something to her if I don't pick her out.

 

And it's not like I put unattractive women in our Friends. They are, they are really attractive, as are their husbands. But for some reason, I feel the need to choose her, not let him choose her from the general public on the site. I have put like 20 or so couples into our friends, it's not like he didn't have anything to choose from.

But it's not HIS choices, it's YOUR'S. It doesn't matter if they are Playboy Playmates, sometimes it takes more then that to be attracted to someone. In a way he is taking one for the team and you are discounting him as being a thinking, feeling, loving person, a faithful husband, and someone that can think for himself. You're afraid that if he does he'll leave you. You are letting jealousy get in the way of having fun, which is what all this is supposed to be about.

 

It is a control thing, I know it.

It is, because you are feeling a bit insecure and thus jealous. In my eyes he has done nothing wrong and you are being a bit irrational. Talk with him about it and start working on yourself. You'll be okay and back to your swinging self's in no time at all.

 

Mr. WS

[VanHlebar 187]

Hey Wolfnblu,

 

Well I think now that you have shared what the issue is you will get really great advice from those much more knowlegable than i , but I am also sure that you and hubby will work this out, if the two of you really want to be in the lifestyle.

 

MrsVan and I have a similar routine that you and your hubby seem to have, except it is reversed. She doesn't really look at the profiles much, but when she does if she sees some(couple, male or female (for me)) she will add them to our friends so we can look at it again later when we are togther. This hasn't been by design just seems that is the way it happens.

 

It does sound like to me though that you might still have some esteem issues with some of you comments. Sorry You must trust your hubby for this to work. Let's face it, everyone here is for the fun part of this. Yes, we all want and love it when a couple turns into friends, but really we all want to play right. So he chooses a hottie with a good looking husband, so, you are his wife and there isn't anything that is more sensual than your wife. I learned this over the weekend with MrsVan after our first experience, which if you happened to have read, didn't really go out as planned for myself. She was so great during this that I realised even more how special I am to her and that it doesn't matter if she plays with a guy that is GQ quality in looks, has all the money in the world, is hung like a horse, and is even so much better in bed than I am that everything just clicks.. I know she is alway going to come home with me afterwards. So, know this about your hubby... he is yours at the end of the night and if he is anything like me or most of the men on this board, after he is done playing with his particular partner, he is still going to want to go home and then make love to you I am sure. So work on the control things with him, and just because he put a couple in the list, doesn't mean you have to say ok to them. Our rule is that either of us can say no for any particular reason. Matter of fact that happened today I found a nice couple that was close, but MrsVan said no for her reasons and that is ok with me.

 

Good luck and I hope everything work out for you and Hubby!

 

-Van

[BodyScape02 21]

But it's not HIS choices, it's YOUR'S. In a way he is taking one for the team. It doesn't matter if they are Playboy Playmates, sometimes it takes more then that to be attracted to someone. You are letting jealousy get in the way of having fun, which is what all this is supposed to be about.

 

 

Mr. WS

 

Actually it is more like prostitution... your way... you are pimping him out.

 

And lookie there... all of us gave you very very similar advice. Exsperience speaks...lol... now we can only hope you will listen!

 

And then go out and have fun...with... your hubby.

 

This really is a great board for help... we have all been there and lived through something similar if not identical.

 

~Cat

[Chip_n_Muffy 16]

Something that comes to mind here is as you gain more experience in the lifestyle, you become more relaxed in boundaries, rules, etc. In a few months you will probably look back on this thread and laugh. The compromise we came up with was for me to make a list, Muffy to make a list, and then compare lists for common profiles. I learned something very important to me, what she wanted was NOT what I thought she wanted. So instead of trying to out guess her, I just decided to roll with the flow. Less stress all the way around. This can be fun, it's supposed to be fun, make it fun! I would hope you would look at this as an opportunity to learn something about your hubby.

 

Chip

[sereneiders 263]

I understand what you're saying but... even knowing the way he took care of you along all the years... well, read your own post then come back... you still won't trust him nor his motivations?

 

He may not want to be controlled, he may feel he deserved a credit he already earned, but it seems he already earned the right to be trusted.

 

I think you have to balance your need for control with the harm you're doing to him and to your marriage with your lack of trust.

[Fred&Wilma 15]

 

That's not good enough for him. He now wants to be able to perv the profiles....go through all of them, looking for couples for us like I have been. But I don't like it. It makes me feel like he is "on the prowl", looking for someone to fuck. Which I guess he is, that is what this is all about, but I want to choose who he will fuck and who he won't. I guess I could have gone along with it and said he could, but in my heart I feel like I would have found some reason to disqualify any couple he found because I would know that SHE is the primary reason he selected them.

 

 

LOL

You can prowl

He can't

You can pick your meat

He can't

You set the rules

He can't

 

Sometimes we create a our situation, then wonder how we got there.

 

Sounds like your own quotation:

 

Oooh! Ahhh! That's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming.

[WesternSwing 504]

Something that comes to mind here is as you gain more experience in the lifestyle, you become more relaxed in boundaries, rules, etc. In a few months you will probably look back on this thread and laugh.

 

Chip

Very, very true.

 

Mr. WS

[LOL_OMG 130]

I love the advice of making seperate lists and comparing them! We don't have an issue with who picks what....but it sounds like it could be fun! As was stated you might find out a little bit more about each other's tastes, and could surprise each other. Kinna like the Newlyweds game when the wife rights down "in the shower" and the hubby smacks his head.

 

Mrs LOL