I need some advice! Single female virgin

[Red 15]

Hi! I feel like I'm in an interesting situation and could use some advice.

 

A single male friend of mine recently attented a swingers club party with a couple friend of his. We had discussed it before he went. When he came back, he asked me if I was interested in going with him the next time he went. We wouldn't go as a couple, we aren't romantically or sexually involved, but he said he would help me through the initial stuff.

 

I have to admit I am a interested from a curiosity standpoint, and little turned on by the idea of it. A lot of the action happens on site at this particular club (it isn't Ace of Hearts).

 

My dilemma is this. I told my single male friend that I didn't have a lot of experience with guys, which is technically true. I'm 23 now, and most of my life I was overweight and horribly uncomfortable with my body. When I was 21 I decided to really lose the weight, and now I'm much happier. When I was overweight though, I felt so unattractive that I never approached guys. So when I said I didn't have a lot of experience with guys, I meant, practically none. Still a virgin. Now that I have lost the weight, I'm sort of at a loss as to how to go about changing this in a way I'm comfortable with. I know a lot of people say things like save it for someone really special, but I would like to have sex sometime in my life! I'm not a drinker and I don't go to bars, not really looking for a casual hook-up in that context.

 

That being said, I think it is important to mention that I'm not looking to go to the club to expand my sexual experiences. I wouldn't be adverse to it, but it isn't my primary objective. I suppose my curiosity would be. I know that there is something for everyone, and different situations are right for different people, but I was hoping for a little feedback on how people would feel about someone like me being at a party/club. I'm not into women but since I haven't tried it, I can't immediatly dismiss it as a possibility. I also know that people have differing ideas about virgins, ranging from "no thanks, we'd like someone experienced" to "bring on the virgin flesh!" but I don't know how it would go over in a club/party context.

 

Any thoughts/recommendations would be appreciated!

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Go at your own speed whether in a swing situation or in any other situation.

 

Always be in control of what you are doing. If you don't like it, don't do it. Take your time. Get some information here and there. There are a couple of smart people here who may have some good advice for you.

 

I know a swing club owner who doesn't drink. Doesn't matter.

 

Personality is very important to us. Not matter how good looking someone thinks they are, I bet there is somebody tired of their shit.

 

My wife is not into women, but she isn't scared of them either.

 

What more can I say?

[oncewere 84]

By all means, go but let everyone know that you are inexperienced and that you want to move slowly. You aren't saving your virginity for someone else, you are saving it for yourself. You are mature enough that you can wait for a good, memorable, experience the first time, not a quicky in the back seat of a Honda with an inexperienced kid who lasts thirty seconds then brags to all his friends. Be in control, find someone who knows what he's doing and who will take his time to make it good for you. Make friends first then sex when you are really ready. It might take months or just a few minutes but you need to make the decisions. Your male friend can run interference for you and can make things less scary.

[sexyshelby 19]

I'd say go and have fun. If you are uncomfortable, you can always leave. You don't have to have sex or engage in any sexual acts if you don't want to. I think this would be a good opportunity for you to just go and meet others and be in the experience, whether or not you decide to play.

 

Most importantly, have fun and be true to yourself.

 

~SS

[JnCC 24]

...most of my life I was overweight and horribly uncomfortable with my body. When I was 21 I decided to really lose the weight, and now I'm much happier. When I was overweight though, I felt so unattractive that I never approached guys.

Now that I have lost the weight, I'm sort of at a loss as to how to go about changing this in a way I'm comfortable with.

First off...congratulations on your weight loss, and welcome to the rest of your life.

 

Now that you have a body that makes you a "contender" in the dating world, I would run...not walk...RUN...away from this as fast as your newly-slimmed legs will take you. The lifestyle, especially swing clubs, are NOT the place to "calibrate your dating apparatus." Your sense of self-worth doesn't come from finding guys who will fuck you, it comes from finding guys who will call you. Swing clubs tend to function much as the "Dollar Stores" of sexual liaisons..."close-outs at greatly reduced prices." They have their place, but it's NOT real life, and it's NOT where you want to be determining what your place in the dating world is going to be.

I was hoping for a little feedback on how people would feel about someone like me being at a party/club.

The club owners will absolutely love you, since they can't get single women into the club to save their lives. Some of the couples will love you...the women, because they're assuming you're bi-, and the men because they're assuming they can get to you without having to give up their wives to another man. Single guys will love you because, well, it's either you, honey, "Rosie Palm," or one of the aging Queens who trolls the parking lot.

 

If you do get with a single guy at a club, try to find one who'll remove his ballcap before he starts his version of "foreplay..."

[just1gurl 15]

First off...congratulations .....

 

Thanks for your honesty!

 

Take his word for it sweety. DON'T START HERE!!! RUN LIKE A SON-of-A-Bitch.

 

Right now your private message box is filling up because you've revealed your young, slim, need sex and what you don't see is what is sending you those messages.... What they want to do is spray semen on you and go. Charming, no?

 

If your stilll curious, READ A LOT MORE!!!

 

Find some good experiences in your life. Your early sexual experiences will define you the rest of your life. Make some good choices and don't be beat down by low self-esteem.

 

 

While this thing is growing in popularity amongst young people in a big way there are still guys YOUR AGE out there, that will give you their heart and the time of day.

 

This is where tired, disenchanted, bored, abused-now or formally, discouraged, broken, old folks like myself and pauncy old men that need viagra go.... there are exceptions - but probably very few....

 

(you don't even want to think about the pervs that log on here and never post, but you'll get their emails)

 

Best advice from JnCC -- RUN!!!

[DBL D 120]

Now, Now everyone,

 

I agree that virginity shouldn't be the issue. I didn't take my wifes virginity and am not sad about that in the least. If she'd told me that she'd lost it at a swingers club though...well like has been said, your early sexual experiences do shape you.

 

I might suggest that you get an add on a singles site somewhere and be honest in your profile. You'll get hammered on but you are the one in control.

Find out what you like in life before you take a plunge into swinging.

 

And congrats on losing weight. You were able to control yourself to do that. Use some discretion in this area too.

 

Good luck.

 

M.D.

[just1gurl 15]

No, its not about virginity - never understood that anyway....

 

its simply about respecting yourself.

 

To the young lady who posted:

 

If you are starting out with a low-self esteem its like meat to maggots. It will attract the worst sort of people to you who will use your weakness against you and will make it worse. If you start getting nice compliments and awe come on, its because they want in your pants. Not because they want to know you as a person. There are numerous posts here where the people who participate in the lifestyle will explain that this life is all about THEM. That's cool, we all make choices everyday, they have that right. But do you really want to throw away your most exquisite gift to people who don't give a flying shit about you? Because they don't. As I mentioned before, I'm not even bringing up the perverts, and the dangerous.

 

There are some really nice people here, I don't mean to flame the older folks, that isn't the reason I respond to this post. Humpty Dumpty here to say -some things about my life, others broke, and some I break myself.

 

You are of infinite worth in and of yourself, I don't mean pride or arrogance, I just mean YOU are important. You deserve respect and to be treated kindly -patiently and with love.

 

There is a lot of dancing around the disease issue, but help me here, "its so erotic seeing your wife with another man". Translation: I don't mind exposing her to STD's and potentially cancer to get my rocks off!

 

You can find someone who will not do this to you.

 

We live in a sexually saturated culture and it SEEMS like it would be a ton of fun, but as some have apparently quoted others, its a "pandoras box". You can keep reading the posts and get a pretty good idea up front of the emotional cost this is to a lot of people, not just to girls either.

 

Someone here shared with me a couple of days ago, that, in big ways and small he had lost self respect. This from a guy.

 

To the folks of the board, I have appreciated your sharing your lives and answering my endless questions, it was invaluable to me. I really want to thank you! Someone asked if I was "with the press", so no, I did ask a lot of questions, but just got an inquiring mind.

 

And if you really do enjoy your lifestyle don't be be angry if i disagree about issues like this. "No holier than thou" attitude here at all, I could easily divorce my emotions and participate, way easy, but I'm finding after reading that I think its what I'd have to do. I've spent a great portion of my life with a cold hard attitude, but I found I didn't like myself. To put it another way, I'd love to dance, but I cannot afford the orchestra.

 

I hope all the "open-minded" here... (in reality its more often we like to talk to people who think just like us.) I do not denigrate your choice to live the life you desire. But to portray it without the truth, well....?

 

I couldn't understand that stupid stanley kubrick film title until now. What the heck does that mean? it became obvious.

 

I expect to be banned maybe, I don't know. So, thank you, I love you all, really!

 

just1gurl

 

aka Humpty Dumpty

 

aka vanilla with just a touch of habenero!

[intuition897 2,179]

This is where tired, disenchanted, bored, abused-now or formally, discouraged, broken, old folks like myself and pauncy old men that need viagra go.... there are exceptions - but probably very few....

OMG, just1, I certainly HOPE there are exceptions! What club is this, so that I can avoid it??

 

Red, while just1gurl and JnCC bring up a valid point - sex/losing one's virginity is not the way to find one's sense of self-worth - I have to say that a swinger's club is not the wolves den they make it seem. If I had to compare a "vanilla" bar (AKA a regular old mainstream bar) to a swinger's club, I'd say the patrons at the swinger's club are far better behaved. You just have to deal with the fact that the people there are going to be having sex right there in front of you. If you're not quite ready for that, then don't go to an on-premises club. Ask your friend to scope out some nice off-premises clubs that he might take you to to ease into it a bit more gently. You'll get an orientation from the club hosts to ensure that you understand what the club is all about, and your host(s) will likely go out of their way to make sure your first visit is comfortable and positive. Just stick close to your friend, and ask him to not disappear on you, just for that one night.

 

I don't think it's a bad idea to go to one at all. It's a really different way to look at sex and one's sexuality. Personally, I feel that learning as soon as possible that love and sex are two distinct entities is a healthy thing. It's a distinction that I'm hoping I can help my kids to understand as they hit puberty, so that they can make logical, rational decisions about sex and avoid being used, manipulated and hurt.

 

I would suggest that when you do go to an (off-premises) club, to be prepared to be propositioned anyway. People - men and women - will flirt with you. You'll get mixed reactions to the news that you're a virgin, from the dog-at-the-end-of-the-leash reaction to indifference to outright shock and dismay (as in, "What's a sweet girl like you doing HERE??). If it were me, I wouldn't bother divulging it. It's no one else's business what your sexual experience is, unless you plan to actually have sex with them. You're not obligated in any way just by attending a club to do anything other than treat the other club-goers with the same respect you'd want to be treated with.

 

Check out the singles & swinging forum, as well as the clubs forum and the FAQ's. Those will give you much better background than I have here.

 

Good luck!

[LOL_OMG 130]

I have been kicking this around since I read it this morning, because I have mixed feelings.

 

On one hand, you aren't a little girl and even though you haven't had intercourse you probably have a handle on sex in general...friends, movies, magazines...hell even TV provides alot more sexual content than when I was your age. Going to a swingers club just to see what goes on may actually be beneficial for you in a way of expanding your own sexuality...just in an observing role.

 

On the other hand, if you are looking to lose your virginity in a place like a club...I wouldn't recommend it. I would think that every woman can remember their first time (unless they were drunk or passed out). To have the memory of getting fucked by someone else's husband something you will hang on to forever is not the way to go IMO.

 

Mrs LOL

[just1gurl 15]

OMG, just1, I certainly HOPE there are exceptions! What club is this, so that I can avoid it??

 

Good luck!

 

Most of the people I've spoken to on this board are exceptions. It was one of those moments for me again that I've found disturbing. I've tended bar at one point in my life, for marines mind you (animals) and I've tended church. And sometimes I thought to myself, good grief, I've met better people in bars. I had that moment here. Good grief, I've met better people on a swinger board than in church. Not all of them or all of you. But I guess what's disturbing to me is the idea of preying on others. Do what you want to / with yourself. But to utilize the foolishness of the young to get your rocks off, bleech.

 

Did your avatar used to have white busoms in a blue-ish cast to them? If so, it was one of your posts that helped me to reach a conclusion for myself. That person spoke of "working hard to bury those feelings"

 

ack. I spent a couple of years married to a man with drug/alcoholism and hid it from everyone. Why? hell if I know. It was hard, but then one day, you drop a can of vegetables in the grocery store and all hell breaks loose. And people think its the vegetables. Buried emotions come out of hell. It just doesn't work, for me, and I doubt for most people. It would be to me, to live a lie.

 

There are a lot of different reasons people are in the lifestyle, and they are not all healthy. There are as many posts here about working out emotional issues as there are insights into doing a particular act "correctly".

 

There are women who post here who've made themselves comfortable with this, there are men who post that say they won't, its not necessarily gender specific. But there are obviously also a bunch who are accomodating spouses who won't stop f--king what moves, and that's pretty obvious as well. I doubt swinging particularly solves that either, because the thrill is doing whats wrong, not just the F-ing. But these are just a bunch of random thoughts concerning an issue that effects people - some? most? deeply.

 

I found it grotesque when old men would hit on me when I was young. It just comes across so predatorial. It still does. I cannot fathom any 23 year old wanting some gross old man. When you get older gross gets more relative!

 

For someone to speak of such an obvious emotional need and to expose their insecurities, and for others to suggest this atmosphere is a resolution for those issues and not something that will contribute further to a loss of self esteem, hum. Bad.

 

but I think that category would probably make up ? 1/2 the unicorns?

 

I'm just trying to make sense of what i've read here....

[JnCC 24]

If I had to compare a "vanilla" bar (AKA a regular old mainstream bar) to a swinger's club, I'd say the patrons at the swinger's club are far better behaved.

Good God, girl...what kinds of bars are you hangin' out at?

 

I've been to some rough bars...bars where fights, titty-flashes, wayyy too much Lynrd Skynrd music, even the occasional "drunk-chick-giving-BJ's-in-the-biffy" are almost commonplace. I'm used to finding phone numbers slipped surrepticiously into coat pockets (both mine and hers) after a night on the town. But I've never been in a vanilla bar where a guy came over and started jacking-off on my female-companions clothes, or asked me "so...does your girlfriend like it in the ass?" I've never been to one in which a guy thought it was OK to walk up behind her and grab her tits. And even at the worst bars and the divey-est dives I've ever been to, any guy who muscled his way into a bathroom occupied by a woman would be ceremoniously escorted to the parking lot, most likely "falling down" several times along the way.

 

PM me with your list of bars where the patrons behave in an atrocious manner, and I'll PM you with my list of swing clubs where the patrons behave even worse...

 

As for whether a young woman whose never been in a sexual relationship should go to a swing club, it could be argued that where "love," "sex," and "relationships" are concerned, the value systems embraced by many swingers are grotesque distortions of what are found in most societies. This young woman has yet to develop those values, or her sense of self-esteem. Sending her into a swing club to learn about "sex" is like sending a young man into a titty-bar to learn about "women." What she is going to find there is NOT representative of what she's going to find in "real life," and it's certainly NOT a very good model to base her future expectations about relationships, both sexual and otherwise, upon.

 

I don't think I'm alone in the belief that good sex always has some emotional component. That component may not rise to the level of "love" but for most people it extends well beyond what we feel for a casual friend, for example. It's a subject that people in the lifestyle have been trying to skirt around for 50 years, but which keeps popping up. If we can't always make that distinction, how can she?

[VegasLee 1,486]

Red:

You don't have any business looking at swinging at this point in your life. You still have a great deal of life to figure out. You want to go to a swing club but don't want sex. Well, you don't go to the Car lot to buy hot dogs. This is not a game. This is life and you still need to work on yourself and figure out where you are before you can involve others in something so special.

 

Just1girl:

 

Less then two months asking questions on the internet and your the expert of all things Lifestyle.

 

This is where tired, disenchanted, bored, abused-now or formally, discouraged, broken, old folks like myself and pauncy old men that need viagra go.... there are exceptions - but probably very few

 

How many people in the Lifestyle have you really met? I am not talking about posters on the Internet but people that really are in this lifestyle day in, day out? You are so far off base it is not even funny here. How can you pretend to give this girl advice on something you no nothing about? Yes, you described yourself but that does not mean that most others are like you.

 

There is a lot of dancing around the disease issue, but help me here, "its so erotic seeing your wife with another man". Translation: I don't mind exposing her to STD's and potentially cancer to get my rocks off!

 

Guess in all your reading you did not pick up on what people said here about disease at all. There is not dancing around about it. Either you take the risk or you don't. Dig and find the facts. One of them being that the disease level within the lifestyle is less then it is in the so called "normal" public. I personally have been involved in the lifestyle for right at thirty years now, with 100's of people. NEVER caught anything and either has Laura. Your "translation" is very degrading to people that take care of theirself. Before spouting off you might want to get your facts straight.

 

WOW

 

Ya, that should be expected. JnCC tends to be able to find the lowest form of life on earth to compare all of us to. He could not make the lifestyle work with his past and still likes to put most of us in the gutter on a daily basis. With your very limited knowledge of the facts of this lifestyle I can see how you would relate to him.

 

We seem to have the blind leading the blind here anymore. People that have read about swinging that have no clue trying to tell others now how to live the Lifestyle.

 

Guess what, this Lifestyle is NOT FOR EVERYONE. Most people in this country and many on this board can not handle the lifestyle. Wake up and understand that. IT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. Most will never have a stable enough relationship to even think about being in this Lifestyle. Most of you are looking into this for all the wrong reasons. Trying to fix something that you could not take the time to figure out that you are part of the problem in the first place so you want to find others to fix it for you.

 

Good luck to most of you because you are going to need it as you keep looking in all the wrong places to have a good life. Look at what you have and make it work because no amount of posting here is going to fix your problems.

[jedi6942 18]

I have read this thread with interest...and wonder. I cannot say that I share the opinions of most. Niether swinging nor the public norm repulses me. There are a lot of good people ,both on this board and in the swing lifestyl in general, that are fully able to appreciate your situation while keeping your interest at heart. Many, though will only be able to advise you through their own self serving perspectives.

 

Yeah, I have a bias too. Her is what I think. The lifestyle of sharing yourself sexually with a variety of partners is not wrong, It is also not where you should start your sexual life.

 

Red, Please, do yourself a huge favor and walk away. Not necessarily forever; but for now. Give yourself the time to build your own world, (confidence, esteem, selfworth, happiness, etc.), before allowing others to play with what is dearest to you. Your mind.

 

I may well be a romantic; but I fully believe that you should only give your virginity to someone that you have very strong feelings of love for and you feel certain feels the same about you. You can only do it once!

 

Others will tell you that love and sex are very different things. That the two should not be confused. They are absolutely correct!!

 

However, if you read the posts, all over this board, you will find that the people who are most satisfied as swingers and happiest in thier relationships are not depending on swinging for thier primary relationships. Most of them are already in serious, rewarding relationships (marriages?) and share that which is most important at home. Not with their swing friends!

 

Many will disagree, of course. Try to be certain that how you lose your virginity is right for you! It will only happen once and it may define the way you feel about sex, men (partners) and yourself for a very long time.

 

By the way, your size, weight, age, looks, or sexual activity do not define you. Nor does what others think of you. What defines you will be what YOU think of you.

 

When you have taken care of yourself, you like yourself (a lot) and you are comfortable in your own skin, whatever that skin looks like, then come perhaps you will be ready to entertain the thought of sharing yourself sexually as recreation.

 

I'm sure that I must sound like I am against swinging. Definately not true. I just do not believe that it is a very good way to begin.

 

You are worth what you will demand of yourself. Or as someone else put it, "Any workman is worth whatever wage he is willing to work for as long as someone will pay it." Don't let yourself go too cheap!

[curiousagain 326]

My two cents:

 

Red, Swinging has been described as the "double diamond slope of marriage" and I think there's a lot of truth in that. As a single, random, meaningless, and/or group sex is your double diamond slope. You haven't even had skies fitted yet.

 

You mention your low self esteem. I don't think you ought to frequent any bar, vanilla or swinging, without a good wingman (girlfriend) till you become self aware of your own self worth and what limits you are comfortable with. You don't necessarily have to find the love of your life to lose your virginity, but it should be with someone you know and trust and who will be very very concious of your situation and wants and needs and desires. I don't think you're going to find that the first time you walk into any bar and at this point, with your lack of experience, how would you know? I think your good single male friend would be spending his time better either personally helping you discover and explore your sexuality or finding the appropriate male friend to do it.

 

Go out and date!! Dating is a piece of cake compared to swinging on so many levels. Get your feet wet there before you dive into the surf of swinging.

[intuition897 2,179]

Good God, girl...what kinds of bars are you hangin' out at?

 

I've been to some rough bars...bars where fights, titty-flashes, wayyy too much Lynrd Skynrd music, even the occasional "drunk-chick-giving-BJ's-in-the-biffy" are almost commonplace. I'm used to finding phone numbers slipped surrepticiously into coat pockets (both mine and hers) after a night on the town. But I've never been in a vanilla bar where a guy came over and started jacking-off on my female-companions clothes, or asked me "so...does your girlfriend like it in the ass?" I've never been to one in which a guy thought it was OK to walk up behind her and grab her tits. And even at the worst bars and the divey-est dives I've ever been to, any guy who muscled his way into a bathroom occupied by a woman would be ceremoniously escorted to the parking lot, most likely "falling down" several times along the way.

 

GOOD GOD is right!! I retract my advice, Red. Obviously I haven't been to enough clubs (thankfully) to have known this kind of bullshit behaviour went on. I've been to a few off-premises clubs (never been to on-premises clubs) and security was always very good. Anyone who was drinking too much or acting like an ass stuck out like a sore thumb. I've never seen anything like this before in my life. The closest I've come is my sister's office party. Everyone was loud and obnoxious, and there was plenty enough underhanded behaviour going on. Mr. intuition and I just looked at one another and knew we were thinking the same thing: "Man, wish we were at Abstract right now."

 

I don't think I'm alone in the belief that good sex always has some emotional component. That component may not rise to the level of "love" but for most people it extends well beyond what we feel for a casual friend, for example. It's a subject that people in the lifestyle have been trying to skirt around for 50 years, but which keeps popping up. If we can't always make that distinction, how can she?

 

I dunno, I don't seem to have any problem with it. I agree that you have to like someone if you're going to have sex with them. Is it love? Sure it is. The same kind of love you have for a complete stranger, just because they're human...just like you. It's unconditional and permanent, but it comes without strings or expectations of any sort. It's mutually treating one another with the utmost respect and care - because everyone is your "neighbour", we all share the common thread of being human - and then going your separate ways. I feel this way about people whether I have sex with them or not. Sex is just a nice way to communicate that.

[VegasLee 1,486]

intuition897

 

Do not believe that many/most swing clubs are like that. Seems he can find the lowest of low places to use as examples of what swinging is about.

 

In all the years we have been swinging and been in some pretty damn bad swing clubs we have never found one that would allow what he said or even had something close to that happen. I am not saying they are out there but it is not the norm and I am willing to bet any of them are not listed in the club listings that would allow anything like that. The reviews would kill them in a month.

[intuition897 2,179]

I'll start out by saying that VegasLee really did a fine job of saying exactly what I was thinking. But I'll add my 2 cents anyway, because I like to hear myself talk...

 

But I guess what's disturbing to me is the idea of preying on others. Do what you want to / with yourself. But to utilize the foolishness of the young to get your rocks off, bleech.

Yeah, that disturbs me, too. Is that what you think my motive was behind my advice to check out an off-premsises club? I think it's a little unfair to tar us all with the same stick. There will ALWAYS be sleazebags. There's no getting around that. But no one is suggesting that she should lower her standards and let just anyone have his way with her. It's not inconceiveable to walk into a club as a virgin, and still leave with your hymen intact. She was curious about the whole thing, so I suggested she investigate. Should she lose her virginity during group sex? No, I don't think so. At least I wouldn't if it were me.

 

Did your avatar used to have white busoms in a blue-ish cast to them? If so, it was one of your posts that helped me to reach a conclusion for myself. That person spoke of "working hard to bury those feelings"

Maybe. My last avatar was all boobs, but I didn't notice a bluish cast? Anyway...

I doubt that you got the advice to "bury your feelings" from me. I very strongly believe that sweeping one's feelings under the rug is a surefire way to end up eventually needing therapy and medication. It's such a tragedy that people aren't more honest with themselves and with each other.

 

There are a lot of different reasons people are in the lifestyle, and they are not all healthy.

Amen to that!

 

There are women who post here who've made themselves comfortable with this, there are men who post that say they won't, its not necessarily gender specific. But there are obviously also a bunch who are accomodating spouses who won't stop f--king what moves, and that's pretty obvious as well.

Well, that's true enough. But if that's all you're getting from this board...then it occurs to me that you're seeing only what you want to see.

 

I doubt swinging particularly solves that either, because the thrill is doing whats wrong, not just the F-ing. But these are just a bunch of random thoughts concerning an issue that effects people - some? most? deeply.

Well, as Lee said, there are more people doing this than should be. You are right about one thing: swinging doesn't solve anything. It just give the people doing the swinging the opportunity to jerk up their socks and fix their shit. If they don't, and they can't deal with the situations that arise, then it's no one's fault but their own. It requires much work. Good matches are made in heaven, but a good relationship is forged here on earth.

I agree again with Lee that you apparently haven't made use of the full resources here on the board. I might be mistaken, but I thought the "Why do people swing?" question was one that is answered in the FAQ section? In my experience, it's usually not because they want to do something they feel is morally wrong.

 

For someone to speak of such an obvious emotional need and to expose their insecurities, and for others to suggest this atmosphere is a resolution for those issues and not something that will contribute further to a loss of self esteem, hum. Bad.

Like I said in my response to JnCC, I guess it's just our polite Canadian clubs up here that have me spoiled. Our first visit to a club, I totally expected to pounced upon like so much fresh meat as soon as we walked through the door. We were terrified that we would be dragged off to separate corners of the club and pushed into doing things we were uncomfortable with. But 5 minutes into the evening, we were laughing at ourselves. If club regulars know you're a newbie, they tend to leave you alone and give you plenty of space. They'll also approach you in a friendly manner and try to make you feel welcome there. Oh there were a couple of predators in the crowd, but no one liked them. And if you're prepared for them, they're merely an annoyance. Otherwise, neither Mr. intuition nor I felt "preyed upon" in any way...and no, we're not 80 years old. We're an early 30's (is that considered "old" by your standards?) couple and we consider ourselves attractive.

 

I'm just trying to make sense of what i've read here....

 

That makes two of us.

[Paphian 16]

intuition897

 

Do not believe that many/most swing clubs are like that. Seems he can find the lowest of low places to use as examples of what swinging is about.

 

In all the years we have been swinging and been in some pretty damn bad swing clubs we have never found one that would allow what he said or even had something close to that happen. I am not saying they are out there but it is not the norm and I am willing to bet any of them are not listed in the club listings that would allow anything like that. The reviews would kill them in a month.

 

Not only is this correct in my experience as well, VegasLee, but I can say from personal experience (I've been both staff and patron) that at all the clubs I've ever been to not only would the kind of behavior described by JnCC not be tolerated, it would be a toss-up whether the management or the other patrons got the asshole out the door faster.

 

By contrast, I've seen (and intervened to stop) some pretty degrading behavior perpetrated by patrons of vanilla clubs that not only went by without action by the managment... it was actively encouraged. All without a stitch of clothing being shed.

 

I agree that Red might want to rethink her idea, but only because of her inexperience in things sexual. Starting one's sexual life by swinging is like high-diving into the deep end of the pool before you've learned to swim.

[sereneiders 263]

But do you really want to throw away your most exquisite gift to people who don't give a flying shit about you? Because they don't. As I mentioned before, I'm not even bringing up the perverts, and the dangerous.

 

Well, "the most exquisite gift"... this tells a lot about your values here, and what's important here is Red's values, not yours, not mines. Anyway, I agree with everyone else and advice Red against losing her virginity in a swinger club.

 

The people who "don't give a flying shit about you... because they don't" is the same that gave her their valuable time to provide her an advice, moreover, one that is pretty closer to your advice, altough without the anger and hate against the rest of the humanity you're expressing here.

 

You'd have a point if these people were inviting her to their clubs and line up to "pop her cherry" and "steal" that "most exquisite gift"... but that didn't happend so far. Statistics are going against your oppinion, moreover when you didn't attended to a swinger club, and the only experience you had with swingers was here, in this board.

 

The same people that "don't give a flying shit about you" also spend their valuable time sharing their opinions with you in the board, no one flamed you so far, and as far as I know, you were not offended here, as to make such an unfair statement.

 

Besides that, I'll say again something I repeated pretty often: one of the things that amazed me the most from swingers when we stepped into the lifestyle is the high moral standards most swingers (couples, by definition) have FOR THEMSELVES before, and then for others. Of course, there are swingers who doesn't give it a shit about anything, but in two years of attending a club, I can acconut for those with just the fingers of my hand.

 

There is a lot of dancing around the disease issue, but help me here, "its so erotic seeing your wife with another man". Translation: I don't mind exposing her to STD's and potentially cancer to get my rocks off!

 

Well... how about exposing MYSELF? It's a shared risk among consenting adults. I appreciate your translation efforts, but let me tell you... you don't speak my language, moreover, you seem to be far from understanding my language, as to dare to translate my "intentions" towards my wyfe.

 

You may not noticed already, but women have sexual desires, have their own lust as we males have. Some day you may be married and have these lustfull feelings, and you'd may appreciate your hubby to let you fulfill your "most devious desires" as a way to express his love for you... even at the risk of exposing himself to an STD you may get after having fulfilliing it.

 

In the background I can see some religious traces... "the most exquisite gift".. a morality that supress your desires pursuing some "more higher ends", perhaps an afterlife prize. Sorry, I don't think so. We both believe there isn't an afterlife, that we have just one life to live, this one, and we will try to purstuit all the higher ends but without denying us to live this life.

 

I hope all the "open-minded" here... (in reality its more often we like to talk to people who think just like us.) I do not denigrate your choice to live the life you desire. But to portray it without the truth, well....?

 

Thanks for the quotes... in fact, I am spending time right now talking with someone that doesn't seem to think "just like us". In fact, this doesn't only apply to you, as I said in some other thread, we embrance more the diferences than these things we have in common.

 

You're, indeed, denigrating our choice with your words. Just talking about a "portray without the truth" when refering to people who valuate honesty the way most swingers does is the same than telling you give a shit about what you already read in this forum, wrote from that vary same honesty. You just called us all liers and cheaters, as if we were here confabulating to convince you to bring your ass to our club and spread your legs.

 

I couldn't understand that stupid stanley kubrick film title until now. What the heck does that mean? it became obvious.

 

Again, the religious stuff... such a pale reflect for the Dante's Divine Comedy, the guy that goes all the way across all the Hell levels finding sinners, learning from their mistakes as to know how to avoid the sins himself and ensure to earn a place in the heaven.

 

The same you seem you have been doing here... getting in touch with the swingers sinners... but from the safe distance internet gave you... with you inquiring mind and you eyes wide shut... and you learned how to find out the truth buried behind the sinner's words, as to point to the portrait and say the truth isn't there, insthead in the book you can write by now with all your aquired experience from this Hell. Your own Divine Comedy.

 

To the folks of the board, I have appreciated your sharing your lives and answering my endless questions, it was invaluable to me. I really want to thank you!

 

Please, don't. Just try to be fair.

 

I expect to be banned maybe, I don't know.

 

I hope you won't. I believe you won't get reasured in your theories about us so easily.

 

Now, after speaking from my guts, let's use the brain:

 

What the hell happend to you and this thread?

 

Why you felt identified so badly with Red question as to jump in bringing your armor and your sword to start a crusade to deffend her (or you?) against the Evil? Slashing us all in the proccess, just in case... of what?

 

Are you trying to take adventage of Red's current chance to enmend something you regret from your own life?

 

Don't answer to me. Just think about it. I hardly believe you became so anger just because of altruism.

[JnCC 24]

JnCC tends to be able to find the lowest form of life on earth to compare all of us to.

Not really...I just call 'em like I see 'em. That we differ in our opinions is understandable, since we come from very different places in the lifestyle. I am employed in a business that has absolutely nothing to do with swinging, adult entertainment, or "pay-2-peek" adult websites. Moreover, I firmly believe in supporting my local swing clubs both through my annual memberships and monthly visits to 2 of them. However, I will NOT sugar-coat what I occasionally see as problems in how those clubs are run, or in the lifestyle in general.

 

You, on the other hand, identify yourself as a "Lifestyles Advocate." An advocate is, by definition, one who "speaks in favor of," or who "argues for a cause." It doesn't matter whether you've been in the lifestyle for "30 years" or "30 minutes," your opinions are biased in favor of the lifestyle. They are NOT objective. Asking a "Lifestyles Advocate" for an opinion regarding any aspect of the lifestyle is like asking a Yugo salesman if a Yugo is a good car.

 

Your website appears to be sponsored primarily by one swing club. In addition, it's linked to your wife's website, wherein she professes to "really meet people in person that she's previously met on the Internet" Am I safe in assuming that her "internet friends" (the ones she "meets at the club...in person") are primarily those men who've previously subscribed to her $300/yr pay-per-view site? If so, you're one slick dude. Not original (that scam has been going on since at least 1999, when "The Swinging Granny" was running the same thing out of Florida) but slick nonetheless.

 

*For those who don't know how these deals work, here it is in a nutshell. As you know, prostitution is illegal in most places, while most other adult entertainment is licensed and/or highly regulated. BUT...because swing clubs fall under the umbrella of "private clubs," selling overpriced "memberships" to an adult website, then inviting certain of your more "loyal" customers (sorry, "members") to a "REAL Swingers Party" at a swing club is perfectly legal, so long as there is no exchange of money for a specific act of sex. Of course, there is no promise of sex, and "REAL Swinging Housewifes!" website goes to some length to say so. But the implications to desperate single males are clear..."join the website, and maybe the "REAL Swinging Housewife!" will invite you to one of her "REAL Swingers Parties!" Maybe you'll get to touch her! Mayyyybe she'll even suck your dick!

 

Of course, it helps "RSH's!" credibility to post LOTS of pictures on her website of previous schmucks...errr..."members" crowded around her in varying activities and states of undress. She makes her money signing up guys on her website, while the club makes theirs on the membership and door fees to the club. And the guys, if they're lucky, get their dick sucked by the "RSH!" for all of 30 seconds. Hey, what can they expect for a lousy $400? To be REAL swingers?

 

Personally, I think the whole thing is little more than a gross exploitation of lonely, desperate single guys. And to associate that kind of activity with "swinging" should be an outrage to EVERYBODY in the lifestyle. I'm surprised that the vice cops haven't infiltrated some of these scams.

 

He could not make the lifestyle work with his past and still likes to put most of us in the gutter on a daily basis.

What I just described is "The Gutter" and I certainly didn't put you there. And while I don't feel in any way obligated to respond to your other comment, I will say that our sex life, including swinging, was quite satisfactory. Maybe that was because we did it out of a genuine respect for the lifestyle and the people we met in it, and NOT because we were selling them "memberships" in some silly website as a prerequisite to attending a party with us.

In all the years we have been swinging and been in some pretty damn bad swing clubs we have never found one that would allow what he said or even had something close to that happen. I am not saying they are out there but it is not the norm and I am willing to bet any of them are not listed in the club listings that would allow anything like that. The reviews would kill them in a month.

Obviously, you haven't read the review I posted in the "Club Listings-Kentucky" section almost two years ago.

[VegasLee 1,486]

JnCC,

 

I guess I could expect no less from you then that last post.

 

First off if you take a good look. I have no paid sponsors at all on the Lifestyles news site. They are all things I link to because I want to and I promote them. If you take a good look just about every club in the United States is linked off that site.

 

Also as far as Laura's site if you take a look it is a FREE SITE. No charges. Guess you missed that part. Also if you look no one has to join anything to find out where the parties are. They are all listed on the party site, another free site. You where right about Swinging Granny and there was others in Florida pulling the same thing. Join my site and you can find out where I party. We have never played that game but you feel the need without checking into things to put us in the same catagory as them. You do this alot about many things I have noticed in your posts of the years.

 

There has never been a prerequisite to attending any party we have hosted, been to or promoted but you assumed instead of reading. Did you miss the big red letters and link on the front page of the FREE site that says "Party with me in Vegas". Goes to a site of Vegas parties. Another FREE site.

 

Over priced club memberships? The Rooster charges locals $30 to come to the club all week. No yearly or anything else. Does not appear to over priced to me. $5 a night.

 

 

As far as being objective that is pure B.S. I have spoken against as much of the nonsense that goes on in this lifestyle as I have spoken for things. Online, on T.V., Radio and in the press. You will find many articles of me speaking against things that clubs/people claim to do in the name of the lifestyle. I also do not just deal with swingers, I have been dealing with the gay/lesbian lifstyles as far as rights go for many years. Hell, I even speak out for the trailer park people you like to bash so much in the past.

 

In many of your posts you are biggest basher of single men in the Lifestyle of anyone here yet you admitted that the problem you had in the past was with Husbands, not singles.

 

You have a very narrow view of the Lifestyle and I assume that is from your limited experience with a couple of clubs and poor experiences with them. That does not mean the whole lifestyle is like you have experienced with that limited experience.

 

99% of what I do in the net and working with conventions and clubs I do for free. I sold most of my web sites and business years ago to do what I enjoy in life. Speak out and work with different lifestyles so that people can enjoy what they want in their life without being attacked by people with limited or no knowledge of what they are talking about. You can look for reasons to bash what I do and that is fine but it would be best to deal in facts rather then the narrow minded nonsense you come up with.

[Red 15]

First off, I would like to thank everyone who took the time to read and respond. You all are very articulate! I really appreciate it.

 

I'm pretty sure that I'll decline my friend's invitation. The club probably isn't the best place for me.

 

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts!

[Dave_kat 227]

Dave here, (just so you know Kat has not read this thread yet, but I will show it to her tonight, she'll probably have tons to say)

 

We're all from different backgrounds, different philosophies on life, different everything. If we weren't, we wouldn't have such lively discussions. When we agree on things, we all say them in such different ways, but we say the same thing. When we disagree, we do so usually in a freindly way.

 

I've seen a lot of things in my life. I have seen (and been forced to not interfere, held back in fact) a man in Iraq beating his wife within an inch of her life.

 

I have seen a woman enter a bar with a bunch of soldiers, and get taken back to the barracks. They filmed themselves getting her drunk and then "running a train" on her.

 

I have had 2 men come up to my wife in vanilla bars and ask her if she liked it up the ass. Right in front of me.

 

Those things do happen in life, and they happen quite consistently. I cannot, for the life of me, remember the name of the movie about a woman who got gang raped in a bar, and the defense was that she was wearing a short skirt or dressed revealingly. That was based on real life events.

 

We, as a group, have many different habits. A lot of us are looking for the couples with whom we are "compatable." We have many different motivations for doing what we do, living the way we do. But we've all made the conscious decision to look into or actively participate in opening our marriages and sharing ourselves at least sexually with others.

 

That one commonality brings us all to this same place.

 

Red, my advise to you is this:

1. Be mindful of the motivation of your friend. He is wanting to take you to a place where people openly engage in sexual adventures, a world where consenting adults exlplore sexually related interests. Not all, but probably the majority of people going, are looking for both new friendships as well as a liberated locale for whatever they might get into.

 

You might be curious as to what goes on. I know I was for the first several times my wife and I went. And I have honestly never been to a club where there were real problems that weren't handled by removing the offender. You would honestly be safe there, and you would be in control of what you would do.

 

But I also say this. You are 23, and not interested in normal nightclubs. You seem to have a lot of self-respect that comes from knowing your own accomplishments (btw, congrats on the weight loss, etc).

 

I would have to advise you to wait though. Keep looking for that somone for your own life, however you do so. Look for someone who is there to be with you.

 

There is plenty of time for you to explore this side of life, once you have more experience saying no, once you have more experience with seeing things. Find out how you are, as a sexual person before entering a world where you could be asked to do things, that even though you say no to them, could distract you from developing into yourself as a mature person sexually.

 

To the fight going on, remember everyone, we have our opinions. We agree, we disagree, but when everything comes down, and we all go to bed, we all put our pants on one leg at a time. We have all seen and experienced different things. And I know for a fact that I'm guilty of not putting the best worded post on here, as are some others.

[LOL_OMG 130]

Red, I think you made a wise choice. My daughter is two years older than you and I thought about it quite awhile how I would advise her. You seem like a smart young woman, and I applaude you.

 

So, who else thinks JNCC and Just1girl need to hook up...

 

/duck

 

Mrs LOL

[VanHlebar 187]

So, who else thinks JNCC and Just1girl need to hook up...

 

/duck

 

Mrs LOL

 

 

 

Now that was funny.. just like to stir the pot don't you.

 

-Van

[VegasLee 1,486]

 

So, who else thinks JNCC and Just1girl need to hook up...

 

/duck

 

Mrs LOL

 

[sereneiders 263]

JnCC,

 

If you read the posts I've been making so far, we engaged in discussions in where I found your oppinion valuable to me. I may not agree with you, but you had a consistent perspective from where to opinate, no matter if they come for good or bad experiences, since from all of them we learn.

 

However, this time I have to say I enfatically disagree. Even when there could be some clubs where things you described may happen, from my experience at local clubs (not in USA), and from what I've been reading here, it seems most clubs are far from fitting your description.

 

Moreover, saying that this lifestyle was devised as a twist to circunvent the prostitution ilegality and get money from lonely guys by suggesting this way they may score is, at least, a huge missconception coming from a very narrowed sight. Just to prove how narrowed this is, even in countries where prostitution isn't ilegal (like mine), there are swingers, lifestylers websites, clubs, and for those lonely guys to score is cheaper, faster, and legally safe to hire a prostitute than to hook in the lifestyle looking for "leftovers".

 

It's true that there are people making business with the lifestyle, most of the ones I know of are lifestylers who wanted to fill a void of services for their peers and make a living from that. I applaud them and, if I were having the chance of doing the same, I would be doing so (every one of us knows of things that can be done better, allways).

 

There are non lyfestilers making business with the lifestyle, but they have to rely on the lifestyle market tastes or they're dammed to loose their money big time. Some may think of this as a way to pimp out lifestylers, but the fact is, the lifestyle is defined by the lifestylers, and not by outsiders.

 

Thinking about our wyfes as a prostitutes, even worst, stupid ones because they're being pimped out without reaching the money, also shows a very narrowed sight about what drives human sexuality, and by human I mean both genders, since it seems you forgot women have the right to enjoy her sexuality as much as we, males, does, being as lustfull as they want to be.

 

When I read VegasLee answer to your first post, disregarding the personal oppinion he have about you that I won't endorse just because I don't know you enough, I felt he was able to nicely express my toughts about this.

 

Then you came with all the business stuff about VegasLee, and I have to say I don't earn money from the lifestyle and even so I share his oppinion.

 

Perhaps I am the one with a narrowed sight, being too silly, and I should ask for my fee, both from VegasLee when endorsing his oppinions, and from the club owners from allowing them to pimp out my wyfe. Don't you agree?

[jennandjamesinm 87]

Those things do happen in life, and they happen quite consistently. I cannot, for the life of me, remember the name of the movie about a woman who got gang raped in a bar, and the defense was that she was wearing a short skirt or dressed revealingly. That was based on real life events.

 

 

 

The movie was The Accused. It starred Jodie Foster and was put out in 1988.

 

Jenn

[jedi6942 18]

Has anyone else noticed that even though we all have differing views we have pretty much all given Red the same advice? I think that says a lot!

[JnCC 24]

From the mouths of babes...