Is cheating hot?

[ShellyM 0]

To be honest they are our friends but not what I would call "good" friends. Well, I'm better friends with him than I am with her. Shes my girl, not my actual sister...my "sista" lol. I'm just an ear. You know, he is vulnerable and so I just kind of listen. I think they need counseling. Yeah, I just am not qualified to tell him "you should do this or that"....I told him the only thing I do know is they need to suspend all swinging and seek marital counseling. I am just really pulling for them. You are right, she would not see the reasoning behind an affair.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here-- I know the history on older friends of ours with the same problem. It was sex perhaps once a month,once no sex for nearly a year. No acknowledgement of a problem. And, just like your friends, he loved her deeply. Ultimately, she was diagnosed with depression. She is treated, but anti-depressants reduce desire even further. He did talk to her doctor and asked what usually happens and the doctor explained that most couples divorce. His answer," Well, I've never been one to follow the crowd". He thought about his family first and rarely has complained except to say that,"I've swam oceans of solitude for her". He's considered everything from divorce, to elite call girls, to having a friend with benefits. Yet, never has done anything. Maybe he's noble, maybe he's stupid, but she's lucky to have such a 'stand up' guy.

[ShellyM 0]

Susan here-- I know the history on older friends of ours with the same problem. It was sex perhaps once a month,once no sex for nearly a year. No acknowledgement of a problem. And, just like your friends, he loved her deeply. Ultimately, she was diagnosed with depression. She is treated, but anti-depressants reduce desire even further. He did talk to her doctor and asked what usually happens and the doctor explained that most couples divorce. His answer," Well, I've never been one to follow the crowd". He thought about his family first and rarely has complained except to say that,"I've swam oceans of solitude for her". He's considered everything from divorce, to elite call girls, to having a friend with benefits. Yet, never has done anything. Maybe he's noble, maybe he's stupid, but she's lucky to have such a 'stand up' guy.

 

omg, thats just so sad Susan. I only hope that things turn out for them.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Susan here-- I know the history on older friends of ours with the same problem. It was sex perhaps once a month,once no sex for nearly a year. No acknowledgement of a problem. And, just like your friends, he loved her deeply. Ultimately, she was diagnosed with depression. She is treated, but anti-depressants reduce desire even further. He did talk to her doctor and asked what usually happens and the doctor explained that most couples divorce. His answer," Well, I've never been one to follow the crowd". He thought about his family first and rarely has complained except to say that,"I've swam oceans of solitude for her". He's considered everything from divorce, to elite call girls, to having a friend with benefits. Yet, never has done anything. Maybe he's noble, maybe he's stupid, but she's lucky to have such a 'stand up' guy.

 

has he talked to his wife honestly about how he feels about the lack of sex?

 

has the alternative/ swinging lifestyle, been discussed between them?

[Swing*8701 887]

They've talked more than for the Treaty of Nuremburg.

[JP51 40]

Treaty of Nuremburg.

????

 

ok, what Treaty?

 

and on topic... NO NO NEVER... why cheat with a wonderful woman as a partner...

[sweet_tna 680]

????

 

ok, what Treaty?

 

and on topic... NO NO NEVER... why cheat with a wonderful woman as a partner...

 

 

What I believe Ed is trying to say there is that the couple he was talking about has talked about their situation ad nauseum.

 

As to your other question, I agree. My hubby is so damn lucky to have me.

 

And I'm very lucky to have him, too.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

They've talked more than for the Treaty of Nuremburg.

 

this is a discussion about cheating.

 

i don't want to change the concept here. but what came to mind for me was, someone being FORCED in to going somewhere els. Teresa mentioned that she could understand a time why, some one went that direction. spoomonkey mentioned in relation to the drunk, fixing things before family and relationship was lost. then your situation about the man that had endured so much, but couldn't or wouldn't cross the line. and by the way, his dilemma and hardships are more than (Nobel) in my opinion.

 

but its been our observations that sometimes the cheater is, FORCED into what ever alternatives they could find. i too have had conversations with other men that have testified that they have gone through long durations of no sex. like you said the guy had gone a year. its not something i could ever say i could understand or do. fortunately and thankfully, iv never had to. witch brings me to a discussion earlier between Mrs.fun and i.

 

this is something i saw sometimes while i was researching the swinging lifestyle. and really stuck out to me. when couples were searching for male companionship for the wife. there were times that the male couldn't for whatever medical reasons have sex, many different reasons that are really tough for long term or commited loving couples. i have given this serious thought, WHAT IF IT HAPPENED TO ME?

 

we have talked about this and i wouldn't want my wife to do without sex for what ever reasons that might come my way, physically or mentally. i can accept something like this. something that i cant change. something maybe i couldn't fix but would rather search for alternatives. to me my dysfunction would lead to FORCING her to get sex elsewhere.

 

i asked my wife about this and she says it would be hard, something that would be personal. meaning it would crush her so much to not be able to satisfy me, if the situation were reversed.for what ever reasons might prevent her from having sexual desires. like you say the woman is suffering from depression and maybe more.then complicated by medications. but isn't there a sense of her Forcing her husband to think of his alternatives?

 

i really was shocked that the doctor suggested divorce as an alternative. i mean are we (swingers)?? the only people that see things in relationships that have good positive alternatives?

 

i wounder sometimes when marriage counselors come across failing sexual problems in these situations, why don't they understand or offer the lifestyle as an alternative?

 

just my thoughts from trying to see some posts here and having a positive attitude about such a devastating hard to understand thread.

 

cheating...

[tribbles 490]

Sex in a marriage is not just physical, its the emotional connection.

 

Shelly, you answered your own question with the above statement.

 

People can go outside marriage for just sex but they still miss the emotional connection.

 

I think many 'normal' cheaters (affairs, not escorts), develop some emotional connection as well as the sex.

 

Then that hurts a marriage further cuz the emotional connection is further strained.

[ShellyM 0]

Shelly, you answered your own question with the above statement.

 

People can go outside marriage for just sex but they still miss the emotional connection.

 

I think many 'normal' cheaters (affairs, not escorts), develop some emotional connection as well as the sex.

 

Then that hurts a marriage further cuz the emotional connection is further strained.

 

You are absolutely right, but I think that usually one gets connected more than the other. My friend had a 14 month long affair with a man; she was in love with him and foolishly believed that he was going to leave his wife. Well of course, when the ultimatum inevitably came he was gone. He didn't even blink an eye while she was absolutely destroyed.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

this is a discussion about cheating.

 

i don't want to change the concept here. but what came to mind for me was, someone being FORCED in to going somewhere els. Teresa mentioned that she could understand a time why, some one went that direction. spoomonkey mentioned in relation to the drunk, fixing things before family and relationship was lost. then your situation about the man that had endured so much, but couldn't or wouldn't cross the line. and by the way, his dilemma and hardships are more than (Nobel) in my opinion.

 

but its been our observations that sometimes the cheater is, FORCED into what ever alternatives they could find. i too have had conversations with other men that have testified that they have gone through long durations of no sex. like you said the guy had gone a year. its not something i could ever say i could understand or do. fortunately and thankfully, iv never had to. witch brings me to a discussion earlier between Mrs.fun and i.

 

this is something i saw sometimes while i was researching the swinging lifestyle. and really stuck out to me. when couples were searching for male companionship for the wife. there were times that the male couldn't for whatever medical reasons have sex, many different reasons that are really tough for long term or committed loving couples. i have given this serious thought,

 

WHAT IF IT HAPPENED TO ME?

 

we have talked about this and i wouldn't want my wife to do without sex for what ever reasons that might come my way, physically or mentally. i can accept something like this. something that i cant change. something maybe i couldn't fix but would rather search for alternatives. to me my dysfunction would lead to FORCING her to get sex elsewhere.

 

i asked my wife about this and she says it would be hard, something that would be personal. meaning it would crush her so much to not be able to satisfy me, if the situation were reversed.for what ever reasons might prevent her from having sexual desires. like you say the woman is suffering from depression and maybe more.then complicated by medications. but isn't there a sense of her Forcing her husband to think of his alternatives?

 

i really was shocked that the doctor suggested divorce as an alternative. i mean are we, (swingers)?? the only people that see things in relationships that have good positive alternatives?

 

i wonder sometimes when marriage counselors come across failing sexual problems in these situations, why don't they seem to understand or offer the lifestyle as an alternative? is it forbidden or what:confused:

 

just my thoughts from trying to see some posts here and having a positive attitude about such a devastating hard to understand thread.

 

cheating...

 

make any sense

[ShellyM 0]

fun, I see your point about the lifestyle as an alternative. And in theory that works....but not in application from what I have seen. We have met too many couples where this is a fix it patch in their marriage. It just does not work well at all. Not only that, when the patch begins to unglue and you are the other couple its horrible.

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here-- Let's be clear, the Doctor did not suggest divorce to him. The Doctor explained that from his experience most couples ended up divorced when one partner is suffering depression and the sexual issues that he was faced with.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Susan here-- Let's be clear, the Doctor did not suggest divorce to him. The Doctor explained that from his experience most couples ended up divorced when one partner is suffering depression and the sexual issues that he was faced with.

 

thanks Susan, i read into this the wrong way. but then again I'm sure that this statement was hard pill to swallow when this guy had been through so much already.it seems they both have been through so much at this point. witch leads me to believe that you are, good friends to have;).

 

Susan and Ed,I'm not trying to solo you guys out. but the couples problem that you refer to in this thread sometimes exists in loving relationships, things happen. we are not always dealt in life what we would choose. i think when people come to the swingers board, many are in fact interested in this thread. some may even be in similar situations.

 

so i had to wounder, what advice followed this statement from a medical professional? "most couples ended up in divorce when one partner is suffering from depression" there has to be more.

 

my thoughts are, what alternatives are there for him, or them as a couple? for him,,? what? be compassionate? deal with the depression and masturbate for as long as it takes,hire a hooker,cheat, the rest of ones life perhaps.

 

like i say,i known men and women that have opened up to me/us. with not having sex for extended periods of time and its hard to give advice. and yes i/we encourage them to NOT CHEAT. many times they say their wife or husband, is going through or suffering from depression. and just to be honest this is not something that is gender selective.men suffer from depression as well, we have seen the shoe on the other foot.

 

but i wounder., and this is confusing to me sometimes,. its a serious matter, when someone is considering CHEATING. for what ever reasons they find themselves at this crossroads.emotionally or physically. we feel that we have friends/acquaintances that come to us because we are a long term couple. (not because we have medical backgrounds).but because we have been through many things and they see us as someone that may help with positive advice... before their relationship ends....some have been at their wits end and like i say they are looking for (alternatives) before doing something as devastating and unrepairable as CHEATING.

 

so isn't it wright to offer our advice? positively? its not like we can tell someone we are happy because we are swingers. we lead an alternative lifestyle. we lead a different life that could work or fail for you.

 

this thread will be read by many, not all are cheaters that are looking for advice or clues as to how to pull of cheating...or repair something they wish would have been handled differently because of later regrets... but rather how do i communicate new ideas into our life together? before things cross the point of no return.

 

 

were just like allot of people on this board,we have our opinions some are hasty and generic in a way. we feel that this thread goes a long way, in people who come here looking for alternatives, from swingers (our lifestyle).

 

what about those that are wanting alternatives here, those that are in fact considering cheating because they have mental or physical problems in their relationships that are deeper than just, our love is gone, we are bored, my partner is failing me? what about those that need good advice about how not to cross the line of cheating? because their partner has had problems that they didn't bring in the relationship intentianally... do we (as swingers) leave them with our bad opinions.

 

we hate cheaters. and if your partner is failing you, we feel that swinging is just a patch. sooner or later you will have to rip it off, it will hurt like hell and then you will be wright back where ya were in the beginning? to bad for you,....sorry your not like us? lol... sorry Shelly, but i just couldn't buy that as an end to this thread. its just to serious and will be read by many, for different reasons.

 

i would rather see this thread end with something positive. we are just like many who come to the swingers board, we search for advice. we share our ideas and experiences. we are not wise folks up on the hill with eminent wisdom about perfect relationships. we are just folks who have found good communication skills. we value our sexuality and our partners. we understand sometimes we don't get what we would choose in life.

 

i used to think that the number one rule in swinging was NO means NO but again things have changed for me.

 

the number one rule for me in this lifestyle is... COMMUNICATION... with my partner first.communication with others second. without communication the no means no rule would always fail....

[ShellyM 0]

Susan, I hear you. Its so hard watching another marriage like that because its like a cancer, you just see how it starts spreading. On the one hand your heart goes out to the one with the clinical depression. You know that they are not being this way on purpose. Its just frustrating when they refuse to seek treatment. But then you know they they aren't making sound decisions because of their depression. But then you think I understand he or she is sick, but they REFUSE treatment; so how long is the other partner expected to remain in a marriage like this. My friend was married to a man with bi-polar disorder who thought he was just "fine". She is a doctor. Note to self: Never have your husband committed, it really pisses them off. Wow, talk about he was pissed. Anyways, she did it because she really wanted to open his eyes to the fact that he was sick. He refused marital counseling and mediation; so as a wise person she sought her own counseling. The counselor looked at everything and told her "there reaches a point where you cannot force someone to seek help and you have to seek help yourself. The only worse thing than one person with mental illness in a marriage is two people in a marriage with mental illness. You have tried. Get out." He didn't TELL her to divorce per se; but he did tell her that she had done all she could do and to stay in would only begin to destroy her. So Carter there are our friends in pretty much the same situation. I don't know, its just sad. I think at some point they need to reach a point where they have to save themselves. But again, I'm not a counselor and am not trained to tell anyone anything like that.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

Susan, I hear you. Its so hard watching another marriage like that because its like a cancer, you just see how it starts spreading. On the one hand your heart goes out to the one with the clinical depression. You know that they are not being this way on purpose. Its just frustrating when they refuse to seek treatment. But then you know they they aren't making sound decisions because of their depression. But then you think I understand he or she is sick, but they REFUSE treatment; so how long is the other partner expected to remain in a marriage like this. My friend was married to a man with bi-polar disorder who thought he was just "fine". She is a doctor. Note to self: Never have your husband committed, it really pisses them off. Wow, talk about he was pissed. Anyways, she did it because she really wanted to open his eyes to the fact that he was sick. He refused marital counseling and mediation; so as a wise person she sought her own counseling. The counselor looked at everything and told her "there reaches a point where you cannot force someone to seek help and you have to seek help yourself. The only worse thing than one person with mental illness in a marriage is two people in a marriage with mental illness. You have tried. Get out." He didn't TELL her to divorce per se; but he did tell her that she had done all she could do and to stay in would only begin to destroy her. So Carter there are our friends in pretty much the same situation. I don't know, its just sad. I think at some point they need to reach a point where they have to save themselves. But again, I'm not a counselor and am not trained to tell anyone anything like that.

 

thank you

[intuition897 2,179]

Lots of good thoughts on here. No surprise, I'm sure, but I have to disagree with DrZiggy. The whole idea that, just because it's hidden, cheating is harmless. DrZiggy suggested that every behaviour has a motivator. So, let's examine that. I'm well aware that many couples get into swinging for ALL the wrong reasons, but there ARE couples who get into swinging coming from a state of marital health. They choose it because it is honest, fun and gives them a sense that they're living life to the fullest...together. However, I am unaware of any instance of cheating being an indicator of a healthy relationship. Do people cheat when their relationships are at optimum health? I just can't see that happening. Usually it's because they're feeling disconnected, lonely, unfulfilled, or unsatisfied. I just think that there are less destructive ways to resolve these complaints without resorting to lying to the person they've promised to be honest with.

 

Also, I disagree that it's harmless even if it is never found out. The cheater him/herself would know about it, and that's like having acid eating away at your conscience. And if the person truly feels no remorse over their dishonesty, I'd have to question a) how much they love their spouse, and b) how hard it must be to look in the mirror every morning. Why would anyone do this to themselves? At least the person who was cheated on can brush it off and walk away. The cheater must live with the fact that they have had to set their personal standards very low so as to avoid feeling the sting of realizing that they are crappy people.

[socolais 696]

I guess I must have read DrZ a little differently than most there. I think he started out stating that "morality" is based on social norms and it's ironic that "swingers" in general point such a strong finger of blame and label "cheaters" as immoral. I guess I'm just as guilty as the next one since I believe cheating is based on secrecy and dishonesty while swinging is based on openness and honesty.

 

On the other point, basic Maslow theory teaches that ALL activity is based on a motivator or need. We're creatures of habit and we have individual standard prescriptions of activities in response to recognized needs and we'll typically use our standard response when called upon. It takes a "significant emotional event" for us to rearrange our set of standard responses and change our behavior. Therefore, most of us will recognize a significant emotional event that "allowed" us to participate in the lifestyle. Ya can't have a behavior change without a significant emotional event and every behavior (action or inaction) is calculated to satisfy an internally perceived need. By that definition, we "need" to swing, probably at the self-actualization layer.

[Tybee Swing 286]

Do people cheat when their relationships are at optimum health? I just can't see that happening. Usually it's because they're feeling disconnected, lonely, unfulfilled, or unsatisfied.

 

I agree with you 100%.

 

I'd also like to add that it's not always because of the spouse or because of a marriage (or relationship) that people have these feelings of emptiness that lead them to cheat. They may have a great partner who wants to be close to them.

 

Many people who are disconnected, lonely or unfulfilled were that way before their spouse came into their lives, and have remained that way. They are damaged in some way. They're seeking, and often these people will put the responsibility of their happiness on others (especially their spouse). Sometimes, a partner can be a bandaid for these people for awhile, and they often pick very nurturing partners who are good at being bandaids for them. But then the reality of their own self-loathing, disconnection, and overall sense of dissatisfaction with themselves and everyone around them creeps back in. They start looking for exterior things/people to distract them or "fix" them, instead of looking within and taking responsibility for their own pain. Some of them cheat. Some of them talk their spouses into swinging so they can be "happy" and "fulfilled". Swinging can be another bandaid for them.

 

I think that when we hear people say they're "bored" and that's what brought them to swinging, they are often these unhappy, dissatisfied, disconnected folks who are still looking for someone/something to make them fulfilled.

 

Not all of us, of course....but I think there is a fair population of these people in swinging.

[Chicup 42]

There are too many potential variables when it comes to cheating, and why people cheat.

 

The end result is that a MAJORITY of people cheat on a spouse at some point in their relationship. More people cheat than don't cheat. This can be due to a long suffering sexless marriage in some cases, but its also due to our vary natures, our nature is to seek multiple partners. Current morality requires either ignoring those desires or cheating.

 

Perhaps thats why we swingers have a darker view on cheating than perhaps even the vanilla world. We have that outlet. There are no real sexual reasons for me to cheat. I'm having my cake and eating it too. If I were to cheat on my wife it would be a greater betrayal of trust than if we weren't swingers.

 

My wife 'allows' me without any guilt to have sex with multiple women. I've had sex with more women as a swinger than I did as a single. If I were to then go out and cheat on her despite that it would seem a far greater sting than heat of the moment casual sex.

 

I have never cheated on my wife, but that desire for extra partners was always there, I just never acted on it. Once we started swinging those desires dramatically decreased, I was at a sexual peace so to speak. Even when we weren't playing with other couples, just knowing we had an outlet made potential 'cheat mates' less attractive.

[ShellyM 0]

There are too many potential variables when it comes to cheating, and why people cheat.

 

The end result is that a MAJORITY of people cheat on a spouse at some point in their relationship. More people cheat than don't cheat. This can be due to a long suffering sexless marriage in some cases, but its also due to our vary natures, our nature is to seek multiple partners. Current morality requires either ignoring those desires or cheating.

 

Perhaps thats why we swingers have a darker view on cheating than perhaps even the vanilla world. We have that outlet. There are no real sexual reasons for me to cheat. I'm having my cake and eating it too. If I were to cheat on my wife it would be a greater betrayal of trust than if we weren't swingers.

 

My wife 'allows' me without any guilt to have sex with multiple women. I've had sex with more women as a swinger than I did as a single. If I were to then go out and cheat on her despite that it would seem a far greater sting than heat of the moment casual sex.

 

I have never cheated on my wife, but that desire for extra partners was always there, I just never acted on it. Once we started swinging those desires dramatically decreased, I was at a sexual peace so to speak. Even when we weren't playing with other couples, just knowing we had an outlet made potential 'cheat mates' less attractive.

 

This is so true and such a good perspective. Its the absolute truth. Its like when you get the toy you want, all of a sudden you aren't obsessing about toys anymore because you have what you want. Its true. I am a highly sexual person. I am not saying that if a hot guy walks somewhere I'm not like "dayum that man is fine"...but its different. I don't know how to explain it. Since you are allowed to openly express things that normally you are supposed to supress and be ashamed of you just are at a calm. That is a great way to put it, being at sexual peace. You are who you are and you don't have to hide it, be ashamed of it or act like you aren't feeling what you are feeling. Anyways, I think thats a great thing.

[WesternSwing 504]

There are too many potential variables when it comes to cheating, and why people cheat.

 

The end result is that a MAJORITY of people cheat on a spouse at some point in their relationship. More people cheat than don't cheat. This can be due to a long suffering sexless marriage in some cases, but its also due to our vary natures, our nature is to seek multiple partners. Current morality requires either ignoring those desires or cheating.

 

Very well put.

 

I have never cheated on my wife, but that desire for extra partners was always there, I just never acted on it. Once we started swinging those desires dramatically decreased, I was at a sexual peace so to speak.

I think this is something many don't understand about swinging in general, and even in most aspects of a relationship. When you tell someone they can't do something than it's the thing they want to do the most to prove they are still an individual and haven't lost their identity. You see this all the time with something as simply as men going to strip clubs and their wife or girlfriend forbidding it. Where's the first place they head with the guys? The strip club. It's a big way to say "fuck you, see I'm still my own person" to their wife or girlfriend. You give the permission and it takes all the rebellion out of it, and thus the allure.

 

Many might think that swinging is simply preventing cheating, but it's much more than that. It's say to your spouse "I know you are an individual with your own dreams and desires, wants and needs, and I honor that as long as you honor me also." It's recognizing and celebrating that individuality. I digress... but your comments made allot of sense in a way many don't consider.