Ladies can you help me get my wife to swing with a male friend?

[funseeking 15]

Hello all. This is my first post and I am hoping to help my wife please bear with me as I explain....

 

My wife has been "blooming" these past 5 years for the first time. She has discovered that she is a very good looking woman after years of thinking she was plain.

 

One of the things she wanted to do in this "coming out" process was to have a close male friend, not for sex but for simple friendship. I encouraged her to and she has found one.

 

As I mentioned she only wants friendship but I have encouraged her to try a sexual relationship with this man. She has never been with another man besides me. I want her to do this for the fun and thrill of it. I honestly think it will be a good experience for her and that the experience will actually make her like sex more and benefit our own sex life. It will be a great part of her "discovering herself" experience that she has been going through these past 5 years. I am convinced it will benefit her in many ways.

 

This male friend of hers finds her very attractive and has told her. This does make her feel good. At this time he will not even hug her because my wife has told him all she wants is friendship.

 

I asked her if she thought it would be fun to be with another man and she said that it probably would be but that she does not think about that. She then said that she is afraid anyway. I asked her what she was afraid of and she said that she was afraid that she would not live up to HIS expectations.

 

This is unfounded I can assure you as she is very good in bed. Never the less she has this insecurity. Conquering this insecurity by having good sex with another man would be a big boost to her sexual self-esteem too.

 

By the way I have no desire to be with another woman and this may be because she doesn't like the idea.

 

The idea of her with another man is a turn on to me....I am really turned on by seeing her enjoy sex and I honestly think that having sex with a new partner would be the ultimate thrill for her...and this thought turns me on.

 

We have a very good marriage and she has told me that she will never trade me for any man and I believe her. Of course I don't want to loose her and I don't think I will no matter how far she goes with this man because our love for each other is so mature.

 

She is impressed with my ability to let her do as she pleases and she really appreciates that but at this time she does not want to "experiment" even though I have told her many times that it would be a good experience for her and would very likely benefit us as a couple.

 

How can I get her to break down her "barriers" and try being with this man sexually? Any comments appreciated.

[sereneiders 263]

Well, I am not a lady but I'll tell you what I think anyway.

 

Let's suppose she were up to have sex with another male. The I would advice you AGAINST choosing this friend of her as such a male.

 

You have to understand that there are many, many things that can happen in unexpected ways for both of you, and that the actual experience won't be the way you fantasize it would be. Should something unexpected happen, during such an encounter or afterwards... let say, a regret, or your wife's fear of not being able to meet his expectations, it's very likely that she won't be able to face this guy anymore. Even in the best scenario, the friendship she actually have and treasure with this guy WILL change, and she may want to keep it the way it is right now, something that has nothing to do with her or your sexuality.

 

By picking this guy as a candidate, you're making a bet with your wife's assets, and not with yours. Besides the side effects this may have inside your marriage, she'd have way more to loose than you should you loose your bet. So, my first thought is, if you wanna bet, use your own money, or ask her to share the investment equally with you, but don't use her money. If I were your wife, under this terms I would say NO even if I were willing to be with another male.

 

In any case, I'd choose an unknown guy no one of you have a previous attachment to preserve, because winging is way too complex involving just two people's feelings and commitments as to add up the feelings and commitments for third ones. You may want to know the guy and reach the degree of confidence required as for her to engage, and this is pretty common in the lifestyle.

 

The second thought I have for you is: it's well known that swinger shouldn't be used as a tool to force things to change in certain planned way inside a marriage or in someone's attitude. Certainly once engaging in swinging there are changes, but you hardly would figure out what and how it will change, and less you'd be able to plan in advance seeking for a desired effect. Trying to do it is one of the fastest ways to failure, and you may be even risking to wreck your marriage. So I'd advice you against your plans. There are many other things you can do to improve her self esteem, and if her self esteem were really an issue here, then you'd need her self esteem ALREADY improved BEFORE engaging in swinging, because if not you could be playing with her emotional stress and risking her to get really hurt. And if I were your wife, I'd be seriously concerned to engage in swinging if I were having some clue telling me you may be being careless about my emotional stress and my safety, to the point of saying NO even if I were willing to be with another male.

 

My third and final thought for you is, she already said no.... but you know better? There's a rule among swingers, even a written rule inside swingers clubs: "NO means NO". She said no. A second rule says "NO means NO, and don't ask for explanations", because by asking for explanations you're looking for a way to, either understand something that isn't your business, or to get resources to argue against the decision already made. So far, she said NO in this scenario, involving a friend of her, but she may say YES in other scenarios and once she feel her safety is your main concern, even against your own desires and what turns you on.

 

If she were to say YES, then the other rule would apply "go as fast as the slowest one can go", and if you want to go faster because "you know better", this could be enough motivation for her to change her mind.

 

But if she were to say NO in any scenario, I'd suggest you to let it go.

 

I believe ladies opinions here are valuable... but for her if she were the one asking for it and reading them. By asking the ladies opinions it seems you're looking for tools to push your wife, to talk her into it.

 

I'd suggest you to invite her to the board to ask herself the questions she needs to ask to help her decide what to do, whether you like or not her final choice.

[EvilMJ 65]

sereneiders made some really great points. I think you are playing with fire (my own opinon, others may not share) by pushing her to have sex with someone that she sees now as a good friend. There are three outcomes that I can see: She has the time of her life and they remain friends, it doesn't work out and kills their friendship, or the worst, it works out and now there is an emotional and sexual connection that may cause some problems between you and her.

 

She said that she is not interested for various reasons, you may have to leave it at that. If you push to hard it is not a good thing. You have laid the invitation down on the table, now it is up to her to pick it up and it has to be her decision.

 

I think it is great that you are very open minded and love you wife so much that you want to give her this opportunity, just don't get too caught up and excited by the idea. Give her time and space to make her own decisions.

 

And then be prepared to live with her decision. I caution you that sometimes how you THINK you are going to feel about something may end up being totaly different than how you feel when it actually happens.

[TNT 1,155]

I see a lot of " I want....I think..." here.

 

Your wife has said that she does not want to "experiment" . Just because you "think" it would be good for her and the thought excites you, does not mean that it would or that she should.

 

You have planted the seed in her mind, that's all you can do at this time. If she changes her mind she will let you know.

 

Swinging is not for everyone and it's definitely not necessary for any woman (or man) to have sex with someone other than their SO on their journey to "discovering themselves".

 

If your wife decides that this is something that she wants to try, it should be because she wants to, not because you want her to. It has to be something that you both agree on and both want to try.

 

Teresa

[funseeking 15]

Thanx for the replies and you all have made some good points. Any other replies would be well appreciated.

 

Yes, I need to leave this alone and let her decide. I have told her how I feel and that is enough. You are right it should not be about what I think or about how I feel but about what she thinks and feels.

 

However, I still think it can do her a lot of good to be with another man. She will have a really good time and experience quite the thrill I think. I want her to be really thrilled because I want all the best for her.... yes it is a "tune on" for me to know that she is really enjoying sex and experiencing new "thrills" but this is not the primary reason why I want her to try sex with this fellow.

 

I think she will learn a lot about sex and enjoy sex even more after such an encounter and that it will spill over into a deeper love for me. I do think we will become even closer than we are now as a result, especially since she really respects and appreciates how I think on this matter. I love her fully and have given her complete freedom with no "reservation" on my part.

 

I think all this potential good(for her) will happen mainly because she has NEVER even kissed another man let alone had sex with another man.

 

If she does have sex with this fellow there is no doubt that the friendship will change. As was said it could end the friendship, or it could continue on with a new "twist", or it actually could result in one or both of them "falling in love" with the other.

 

Personally I think that I could emotionally "detached" and not fall in love because I really believe that sex is simply an act of pleasure UNLESS there is a deep rooted love for the other person. This love takes a long time to develop and can only happen AFTER the "in love" experience has gone away.....which usually happens in 1-2 years after a relationship starts. My wife also agrees with this definition of real love but I am not totally sure that she can "emotionally detached" from this guy should she have sex with him. So I am playing with fire to some extent.

 

There is already some emotional attachment (friendship) as she really likes to spend time with him. She likes the "fun" things they do together. However, she is not sexually attracted to him, even though she thinks he is fairly good looking and with a good body. This is probably because my wife is NOT "visual" like we men are. As most of you would agree most women are nowhere near as "visual" as men are. My wife is LESS visual than most women....she doesn't even notice good looking men.

 

Yet after all is said, I do trust her to be able to have fun with this guy, a guy I like and respect, without allowing herself to get TOO attached to him and getting into what we both consider the early immature infatuation of the "falling in love" experience, which isn't real love at all. She even told me that she would end the relationship should she start feeling that she is really starting to like this guy in a way that is beyond friendship.

 

A little about "him". He is married but has a very poor marriage. It is a marriage on convenience for sure. My wife has told him how I think and feel and he thinks I am crazy. So far he hasn't been "forward" because my wife has made it perfectly clear to him that all she wants is friendship.

 

My wife is in control not me and she is free to do what SHE wants to. I am not in control and do not want to be. I can let her do what she wants and I have no feeling of jealousy and I do not feel threatened. I am like this because I have a very mature and deep love for her and she feels the same towards me.

 

She is having a lot of fun in her "coming out of her shell" experience of the last five years and I have encouraged her to do anything she wants to do to make this experience more complete.

 

I guess it is time to "back off" on my part though.

 

BUT....isn't there anyone out there that thinks it will benefit her, and potentially even us as a couple, for her to have a sexual relationship with this man? Am I just crazy and foolish or am I on to something?

 

Again any replies are appreciated and especially from the ladies in the crowd.

[nwpacouple16404 21]

It sounds like your wife is a very special and beautifull women. I would be so flattered to be the one person someone had had sex with. So she is coming out of her shell, that doesn't mean she needs to start swinging. Let her feel beautifull for who she is, not just sexually. You don't need to turn her into anything she is not and never has been, just because it turns YOU on. You are a very lucky man and I wouldn't screw with the situation any more than you have.

[funseeking 15]

nwpacouple16404 said:

It sounds like your wife is a very special and beautiful women. I would be so flattered to be the one person someone had had sex with. So she is coming out of her shell, that doesn't mean she needs to start swinging. Let her feel beautiful for who she is, not just sexually. You don't need to turn her into anything she is not and never has been, just because it turns YOU on. You are a very lucky man and I wouldn't screw with the situation any more than you have.

 

I appreciate your bluntness...I like tactful bluntness like this...and you have a point.

 

I am indeed very lucky.

 

But you misunderstand me a bit I think.....this is not about my fantasy, although I think most men have had such a fantasy and that includes me

 

This is about is about her. But as I have told her, SHE is in control,and she should only do what SHE wants to do and not what I or her male friend want her to do. I have made that very clear.

 

I just happen to think that it will benefit her and I have told her that. I guess I need to just shut up now as she already knows how I feel and think.

 

I just wanted some of other opinions from experienced people on this board and that's why I am here.

 

I also wonder if perhaps there is the chance that I am deceiving myself with the way I think.

 

A friend of mine, that does not know my wife, said that I am a very "different" fellow for not feeling "threatened" with the thought of my wife with another man but he respects me and this ideation.

[dinkydow4us 15]

How do you know she'll learn anything knew? Are you saying this guy is better than you? You've been there since day one, you know her inside and out. I doubt this guy can do anything more for her than you can The only place he can beat you is in your head Don't try to think for someone else. Be glad for the road you've traveled Good luck D. D.

[sexyshelby 19]

I think these are questions that only you and your wife can answer.

[intuition897 2,179]

Okay, I'm a woman, and I'm going to give you my perspective of all this.

Although you've repeatedly stated that it's time for you to back off, and let her make her decision, you seem to be clinging to the fantasy pretty hard.

 

funseeking said:

However, I still think it can do her a lot of good to be with another man. She will have a really good time and experience quite the thrill I think. I want her to be really thrilled because I want all the best for her.... yes it is a "tune on" for me to know that she is really enjoying sex and experiencing new "thrills" but this is not the primary reason why I want her to try sex with this fellow.

I think she will learn a lot about sex and enjoy sex even more after such an encounter and that it will spill over into a deeper love for me. I do think we will become even closer than we are now as a result, especially since she really respects and appreciates how I think on this matter. I love her fully and have given her complete freedom with no "reservation" on my part.

 

I think all this potential good(for her) will happen mainly because she has NEVER even kissed another man let alone had sex with another man.

 

Funseeking, this is your fantasy doing the talking here. I understand that the fantasy has arisen from your deep love for your wife, but just the same, be very careful that you do not idealize what will come from the realization of this fantasy.

 

Now, it seems you do understand that this "shifting gears" of the relationship will change some aspects of it, but I have to wonder if you're still trying to plan out the outcome? It can't be done. There are too many variables, and you're dealing with the human psyches of not one but three people. And where love is concerned (and because of our culture, where love exists, so must sex, right?) there is no predicting what someone will think or do.

 

 

funseeking said:

A little about "him". He is married but has a very poor marriage. It is a marriage on convenience for sure. My wife has told him how I think and feel and he thinks I am crazy. So far he hasn't been "forward" because my wife has made it perfectly clear to him that all she wants is friendship.

...

BUT....isn't there anyone out there that thinks it will benefit her, and potentially even us as a couple, for her to have a sexual relationship with this man? Am I just crazy and foolish or am I on to something?

 

Again any replies are appreciated and especially from the ladies in the crowd.

 

Mmm-kay. I don't care WHAT kind of marriage he has, it's still a marriage, and you're fucking with it. My marriage to Mr. intuition wasn't always so peachy either. In fact, it downright sucked at some points! Yes, we considered divorce! Perhaps this is why I feel so strongly about people righting-off marriages. From the outside view, ours was a right-off. Perhaps this is one reason why your wife and this other man don't want to become sexually involved. They don't feel that it's right, maybe?

 

I can't help but get this image of you "playing house", and you're frustrated because you can't make the dollies play together. You can't orchestrate this sort of thing, just because you'd like to see it happen. I know, you say that it's HER decision, but you're still making it perfectly clear what your WISHES are, and that in itself is a type of coercion/pressure.

 

Now, if you wanted to pursue the idea of swinging, I would suggest that you do not pursue it with this other man. It may take years before your wife is ready for this sort of thing...if at all! It simply may not be for her! And if it's not, then it should mean that it's not right for you both as a couple. She is trying to tell you something with her reluctance. It may not be fear of what she has not yet experienced; it may be that she's afraid that you will have "created a monster". She knows she is not emotionally ready for this, she loves and respects you, and does not want to damage your relationship. She is likely reluctant because she knows that she will not be able to keep her friendship with this other man from ballooning into a full-blown love affair if sex is involved, and too many people stand to be hurt by that. She may have no desire to separate love and sex. In which case, you might want to consider looking into polyamorous relationships...which might be her thing...and might not be yours. It would be an interesting turn of the tables, wouldn't it? Best of luck with all this.

[funseeking 15]

You have spoken the truth about me and you are right. You have a good way about you so I feel comforatble talking to you. Yes I am playing "house" and I am frustrated that the dollies won't play together.

 

But, isn't it possible for them to have a sexual relationship just for the fun of it and without "falling in love"?

 

Sure there is some risk that she will "fall in love" but I am so confident in my wifes love for me that I really doubt this will happen. However, he may fall in love with my wife and then she would have to end the relationship and that would be hurting him and I would be responsible because I instigated the whole sex thing. I don't want that to happen.

 

I want my wife to have fun and the thrills that go along with that...there goes the "I" word again. Yes, I do have this fantasy. The fantasy is about my wife having a really exciting time. I want here to be as happy as she can be....and yes this is a turn on to me.....but I am thinking about her too and not just me.

 

I have talked with this man and he has told me that he is seriously considering leaving his wife but I don't want a sexual realtionship with my wife to be the "final straw" in causing this to happen. In fact after reading your post I told me wife that she should not have sex with him, should she ever want to, while he is with his wife.

 

 

Also, know what, I guess I just want to be a swinger and I know that my wife never will and that bugs me....so I am trying to manipulate things so that she does try sex with another in hopes that she really likes it so that her "barriers" will go away and she will become a swinger. I know this is not the right thing to do.

[intuition897 2,179]

funseeking said:

Also, know what, I guess I just want to be a swinger and I know that my wife never will and that bugs me....so I am trying to manipulate things so that she does try sex with another in hopes that she really likes it so that her "barriers" will go away and she will become a swinger. I know this is not the right thing to do.

 

Honesty with one's self is probably one of the most difficult things to learn, and it sounds like you're on the right track... now the next difficult task is to actually apply to real life what you've learned.

 

 

funseeking said:

You have spoken the truth about me and you are right. You have a good way about you so I feel comfortable talking to you. Yes I am playing "house" and I am frustrated that the dollies won't play together.

 

But, isn't it possible for them to have a sexual relationship just for the fun of it and without "falling in love"?

 

Sure there is some risk that she will "fall in love" but I am so confident in my wife's love for me that I really doubt this will happen. However, he may fall in love with my wife and then she would have to end the relationship and that would be hurting him and I would be responsible because I instigated the whole sex thing. I don't want that to happen.

 

You're still making suppositions. You can't rely on your assumption that your wife's love for you is strong enough to keep her from making an error in judgment. Ask her what it is that she's afraid of. If she's honest, it's likely that she will become emotionally attached to someone else (a hypothetical partner, not necessarily this other guy you mentioned).

 

Is it possible for them to have a NSA sexual relationship? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it. At least at this stage in the game. And that "maybe" is sporting about a .001% chance. If you keep pushing for this, you'll likely get WAY more than you bargained for. Would the other guy fall in love with your wife? I'm thinking definitely yes. The guy is hurting right now. His marriage is a shambles, and he's lonely for some intimacy. Your wife is a nice lady who wants to be his friend...nothing more. He admires this, and of course when a human being is told he/she can't have something, he/she wants it all the more. It's just human nature. He'll be overcome with thoughts about your wife, and being his friend, your wife will not want to hurt him by distancing herself from him. I have serious doubts that she will be able to avoid responding to his feelings for her. Especially in light of the fact that you seem to be pushing her toward him. She does not understand how love and sex are two separate things; in her mind, they are one entity. Inextricably linked. For her, one cannot wholly exist without the other. If we can believe this to be true about your wife's beliefs about love/sex, then it stands to reason that she would feel you should have known that this relationship with the guy couldn't POSSIBLY just end with sex. It had to become emotional. Perhaps she subconsciously realizes this, and does not want to go there. Just because you tell her that love and sex are two different things, does not mean she will understand or believe it. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

funseeking said:

...I guess I just want to be a swinger and I know that my wife never will and that bugs me....

How can you be so sure?

 

Tell her about the Swingers Board. It can't hurt to read from the privacy of your home and discuss what you find here.

 

Who knows, she might have already discovered this place and be posting her own questions.

[sereneiders 263]

Dito

 

Although if she already were a board member without your knowledge, this would be a huge warning label: she'd be afraid to even say "may be" because you won't give her a break until forcing her to say "yes".

 

I like your honesty, when you agree you're playing house. Yet, you admit it and you're still looking for ways to keep being the Master Puppeteer here.

 

I'd say you CANNOT play dolls with people:

 

1) Because it is wrong, even if you succeeded.

 

2) Because it is too risky for you, once they realize they were your puppets, should something were going wrong, you'll be the ONLY one to blame for what happened.

 

3) Because it would require a lot of skills that YOU DON'T HAVE (sorry, it was proven once you came here, showing you don't know the variables involved, you disregard the ones we're pointing out, thus pretending you would be able to control and master them is merely wishful thinking).

 

4) Because should you realize you were unable to fit the Master Puppeteer later on, when losing control, your ego will be beaten big time.

 

5) Because you're playing with fire without understanding the consequences: you want to open the Pandora box and you're naive enough to believe you'd like everything that will pop out, should you ever meet things you dislike, you still didn't gave us (nor your wife) a clue on how you plan to deal with these.

 

6) Because the pursuit for control is a defense mechanism devised to hide a low self esteem personality (believe me, I've been there), it works for as long as the control illusion remains, should you lose control you'd be forced to face your low self esteem (for example, I'd ask you if you feel fit enough to sexually please your wife, and if you don't, if you want one of your puppets to act as a "fit" alter ego, so it would be you by means of your puppet, the one able to please your wife).

 

7) Because the pursuit of control exposes a lack of confidence on your wife: she may be able to explore her sexuality with others, BUT ONLY if she does so under your own terms, both for the way you want her to behave, and for the RESULTS she'll get, thus you're telling her to fly... but inside your cage, and she may find out the cage ceiling to be too low for the wings the Master Puppeteer is attaching in her back.

 

One of the things you need to be able to successfully swing is to be aware of how many things are beyond your control, and up to deal with these things as they come, accepting your wife terms to develop new rules (including a "no swing allowed" rule).

 

So far, since you two are already talking about this and she didn't throw your clothes through the window, I'd say it's very likely your wife have more wood than yourself to become swinger. If i am right about this, the only motivation she'd have to hold herself would be her awareness about your lack of wood, that she'd be finding out with your permanent rush for the control, and the common sense required to swing that wouldn't be making her guess some or all the "because" from the list above as to understand swinging isn't for you, no matter how badly she'd be wanting to swing.

 

How do you dare to say she's not up to swing, just because she's not up to swing under the rules you want to set up unilaterally?

 

Make a poll, ask the "successful swingers" here how many of them would dare to swing without having the word and vote rights granted by their respective spouse, i.e. giving up all the control to the respective spouse. Such a poll will tells you "NO ONE OF US IS UP TO SWING".

 

But again, this is a symptom for your craving of control. You say "swinging" is "swinging under MY terms", and if your terms were not present, then it isn't "swinging".

 

Let it go. Start working in your own issues, those leading you to that crave for control, and once you solve these issues, ask your wife to swing. From what you said about your wife, just then I'd put money and bet she's up to swing.

[Operator 15]

I think you need to invite this friend to join you and the wife for a threesome.

 

You are the perfect candidates for a threesome....

[couple4real 17]

I just want to say I was in similar situation and I completely understanding you, I thought you're talking about me and my wife.

 

So this is my opinion and what happened with us.

 

I was like you encourage her to live her life in unlimited freedom, and I was thinking that all for her best and for our marriage and life well.

 

I wasn't wrong, because after she get the experience with another man, she become another woman… woman have the confidence in herself and her body and her personality.

 

I can't deny that I was having some selfish reasons when I encouraged her to do that, but this was minor, and I'm completely honest here.

Any way, what I'm sure from, that our life now is great, our marriage more than great, and our love still growing and growing.

 

So... man… I can't see any reason to give up, the guy who was a friend of my wife become a close friend for both of us, also we get a very special and great friendships with many couples, singles male and female because of this lifestyle.

 

The one thing I really worry about it, THE MAN IS MARRIED… I have to tell you that's really not jock, and for me and my wife we can't do that with married man or married woman, so please think about this point.