Not sex, made love - very upset

[bigmama 15]

My husband and I have been swinging for about 1 1/2 years and it has been wonderful. Recently, he and I have gotten together with a single woman and became great friends. On the night that the three of us were supposed to "have fun" I began my period. Needless to say I was not happy. Anyway, my husband asked me if it was OK for him to continue with the evening. I had told him that I really didn't think it would be a good idea, but he kept asking me throughout the night. He finally said that the other girl really wanted to go into the bedroom. Frustrated, I told him that I didn't care because I knew that he would not stop asking me until I said yes.

 

During the whole ordeal, I went into the bedroom three times to get him to stop, but he wouldn't. That was about a month ago. Just the other day, he told me that he didn't have sex with her, he made love to her. I was and still am devastated. To me, sex is just sex, but making love to another person is totally different. Am I wrong in thinking this? Personally, I love my husband so deeply that I could never make love with any other person. I thought that our love was so strong that he couldn't make love to anyone else either. Am I wrong in thinking this as well?

 

Someone please help me in this because I am not sure how my husband feels about me anymore.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

You have every right to be devastated. Despite the fact that some people use the words interchangeably, there is a big difference between having sex and making love.. a difference that most swingers understand.

 

Just him telling you that it was one and not the other is enough reason to be upset and worried. There is no easy answer for what you should do but I think it would have to begin with talking to him and finding out what is going on his head. Finding out his true feelings for both you and the other woman. Once you find this out you may have some choices to make and they are choices that only YOU can make.

 

Just remember that he was wrong from the start. He never should have pushed when you had already said no, and should have stopped when you asked him to despite you having said yes.

[newtothisintexas 15]

Quote

Originally posted by bigmama:

Frustrated, I told him that I didn't care because I knew that he would not stop asking me until I said yes....Someone please help me in this because I am not sure how my husband feels about me anymore.

 

Please know that I really feel for you and your current situation. I wonder how many others have had this happen to them.

 

But I will say that you really shouldn't have let yourself get frustrated and "pressured" into agreeing to anything. You told him that you didn't think it was a "good idea" and both of them should have respected your wishes. They obviously were putting their sexual desires before your wishes as his wife.

 

Regarding the last sentence of your post, you need to ask your husband and stop torturing yourself over it. Ask him straight out what is going on between the two of them, his feelings for her, etc., and prepare yourself for the worst because he said what he said to you for a reason.

 

Be strong. Be honest with yourself. Best of luck during this difficult time.

 

[lycioos 16]

I am so sorry that you are going through this. Please don't let too much time go by before you confront this issue with your husband. Even though your frustration is justified, it can turn into bitterness and anger and it can eat you alive. As hard as this may sound you need to lovingly approach your husband about this issue asap. If you aprroach him confrontationally he will respond defensively and that is how words get out of hand, then, if he is willinig, I highly reccomend marriage counseling for the two of you. I'm sure there are underlining issues to his insensitive behavior and it is VERY important that you find out what they are so you can work them out togher as a couple. As new to texas said, you must also be prepared to except what is said by him and that may be very painful. Since this is a sensitive issue due to your lifestyle it may be much harder to have the support of a friend or loved one, exspecially if they don't know you are swings so I urge you to ask around and do your best to find a counselor that can be sensitive to your situation. You may also want to consider ending this lifestyle for you and your husband. For some people it is difficult to mistake feelings of sexual pleasure for emotional attachment. Please get help and fight for your marriage. "what God has put together let no man (or women) take apart" Best of luck.

[CanadianCouple 18]

What your husband did was cruel and inexcusable. It was selfish beyond words.

 

The first 'no' from you should have sufficed. If it were me I wouldn't have even asked in the first place, once you had begun your period. The sex should have been off the table for that night, and the three of you could have gone to a movie, restaurant, etc., and enjoyed the friendship part of your relationship together. Instead your husband shunted aside any consideration he had for you and your feelings, and acted like a schoolboy getting his first bit of nookie.

 

I'm also concerned with the 'making love' reference. Janette (my wife) and I have had discussions about this, differentiating between love and sex. When swinging, I ALWAYS treat the other woman like a lady, never forgetting she has feelings like the rest of us. I'm considerate and gentle, but I'm NEVER 'making love' with her. That's reserved for Janette and no one else.

 

You two need to have a heart to heart, ASAP. I'm very sorry to read of your hurt feelings, I truly am.

[Guest CyberMWCouple]

Bottom line is...."No is NO"!

 

I'd have to agree with CanadianCouple about cancelling the "sex" part of your get together and turn to alternative "activities" agreed by all. And that "making love" is ONLY for your spouse/significant other, sex is sex with all other partners.

 

Regarding the other female....Did you AND your hubby communicate with her about you're "monthly" situation? How did she feel about this? Did YOU communicate with HER, how YOU felt about what was going on, even after the fact that you've told your hubby over and over again (although ONCE should've been enough) that you were uncomfortable with what was going on?

 

If you DID communicate all of this with your female "friend", and she understood what was going on and knew how you felt, and STILL she had the "balls" to continue this charades with your hubby....I don't know about any other wives here, but that would've been grounds for some ASS KICKIN'! In fact, I would've showed her to the door, and then hubby & I would have some SERIOUS talkin'!

 

Sorry about the rantin' & ravin' AFTER the fact, but I'm just ANGRY for you! ?That sucks that you or anybody had to go thru this!

 

Hopefully, this is one of those "things" that your hubby is going through (that heat of the moment thing maybe), and that he'll cum around to his better senses and get a grip on what's going on and REGAIN control of his actions, and that you both can work through this together and BUILD on your relationship, making your marriage even stronger! Until then, I suggest that you both hold off on anymore swinging activities!!!

 

Good luck to both of you and we hope things will work out for all of you!

[CanadianCouple 18]

bigmama:

I am so very sorry that you must go through this ordeal. It seems to me that you must get a straight answer from hubby as to his feeling, concerning both you and this other woman.

 

As newtothisintexas said, you should never have allowed yourself to be pushed to the point of agreeing in the first place. Always be true to yourself first or you'll not be able to honestly be true to others. This in no way takes away from how VERY WRONG your hubby was. If he loves you he never would have pressured you to begin with. After receiving NO that should have changed the entire evening.

 

What of the other woman? If she was aware of how you felt then she is almost as guilty as your hubby. I say almost, as he bears the greater responsiblity to you. She is guilty of not respecting one of the players in this as well. I hope she is no longer in the picture.

 

I agree with lycioos about how to approach this with him. Even though I think I may be tempted to have my baseball bat accompany me.

As Dan of Canadiancouple stated, making Love with another is reserved strictly for you and your only mate not you playmates.

 

I feel that under the circumstances all swinging should be put on the back burner. It can always be re-entered much much later if trust has been re-established.

 

My thoughts and prayers go with you during this very trying time. I hope you remember that even if you don't like what you hear, it's always better to know the truth. Good luck and God Bless.

 

Janette of CanadianCouple

 

 

[lycioos 16]

Hi Just wondering how you were doing??????????

[LaylaSusanne 15]

To respond, I am including excerpts from a letter I just sent to AskJulie about a VERY similar situation.

 

My husband and I recently began swinging, after discussing it and researching it for a while. We go to an on-premises club fairly regularly. We were still very new to this when we ran into a, to us, odd situation, and one we had great difficulty extracting ourselves from.

 

We met a single female at the club, who said she was bi, and interested in a threesome. It was my first time with a woman, and we brought her to our home. We made it clear we were interested in swinging, and it was only for the one night, with the possibility, if we all "clicked" of it being more often. The following morning, she began discussing polyamory, and saying that was what she was into. We had never heard of it, so she pointed us towards some rather tame info on the web.

 

We discussed it, and decided we liked her, so we wanted to see her again the following weekend, and see what happened. We had a good time, and discussed a bit more about the polyamory. It was described to us as being like swinging, only she would be our regular girlfriend, and we would all 3 go out together, and play together and such.

 

What happened instead is that she wanted my husband to divide his time equally between her and I, and become his "other wife" To the point of asking him to ask me to pay half the bills for our home and 3 kids, as we were really now "roommates".

 

She wanted no further sexual contact with me, and, at times, not even friendship. She said she really was not bi, and was committed to having a husband, and wanted to be able to be with more than one person, hence the polyamory. She wanted MY husband to marry her, also. All of this happened VERY quickly, in just 8 weeks.

 

During this time, she several times asked for time alone with my husband, first at our house, which I also agreed to reluctantly. Then, like I said, at her house. When I said I wasn't comfortable with this, and wanted to back off, she said I was just being jealous, which meant I didn't truly love my husband, but wanted to control him. Something he, too, believed for a while. He told me he was falling in love with her, yet he still loved me. That hurt DEEPLY. I truly know the pain you are going through. At one point, he even left me to be with her, to "sort out his feelings" He came back home rather quickly.

 

We did finally, after several tries, manage to end the relationship (badly) We are now, (again, after just 8 weeks) having legal problems with her, making allegations against me. Luckily, I could prove the allegations false.

 

We feel very deceived, and both naive and foolish. We never saw this coming, and did not even know we should consider it a possibility. She held herself out to be bi, which she was not, a swinger, which she was not, and wanting a threesome, which she did not. It has made it hard to trust anyone again. We didn't even have her real name until the police gave it to us! We thought we had done things right, took it slow, talked it over, and made our expectations clear, and still we landed in this mess.

 

I agree that you need to talk to your husband NOW about your feelings. And yes, be prepared to hear something you may not like. my husband, also, started off by telling me he felt a "spiritual" connection when "making love" to this woman.

 

Happy endings DO happen, though. I gave him time to sort things out, and he quickly came to the realization on his own that what we had was too good to throw away over something that was most likely just "passion of the moment" I think the fact that he is now totally over it speaks for that, it obviously was just an intense fling for him.

 

I tried to hide my feelings, and to make them something they weren't, for far too long. My hubby wanted all 3 of us together, he was picturing this happy little family with him and 2 women, and all of us loving each other. Pretty picture, maybe, but the reality was very different. Yet, I did everything I could to make it work, for him, even though I didn't want it.

 

To the point where I made myself sick enough to land in the hospital. At that time, I knew it was over for me. He no longer had a choice to make, I DID! I guess I was the one who needed to make a choice all along.

 

I didn't even give him an ultimatum or anything. I didn't ask him to choose. I just told him it wasn't working for me, that I felt pressured and manipulated, that I knew the happy 3-some was never going to happen, because the other woman did not want it to, either, and that I was setting him free to do whatever it was he wanted or felt he needed. I was leaving.

 

A few days later, he totally ended it with her, and came home. We have spent hours talking about it, and airing hurt feelings, but then we let them go. And we have started counseling together. Which I also HIGHLY recommend.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. It was the most painful and confusing thing I have ever been through. I hope you both get through it, together. You both DO need to end it with her, even though he may be reluctant to do that.

 

Most of all, DO NOT HOLD IT ALL IN! And DO NOT TRY TO FEEL SOMETHING YOU DO NOT, OR HIDE YOUR FEELINGS! Learn from MY mistakes, okay? It will only really cause you harm in the end.

 

Layla and TekTom

 

[Guest CyberMWCouple]

LaylaSusanne,

 

Sorry to hear of your bad experience, but I'm glad that your marriage & relationship with your hubby could withstand such a tragedy, and that everything is heading back on the right track for both of you! 

 

Thanks for sharing!

[LIZA 20]

An extreme case, but a very good example of why I personally do NOT believe threesomes are ever a good idea

[Just Curious 15]

Let me introduce myself, I am the hubby of bigmama (the person who was the first post). First let me thank you ALL for responding to my wife's post. Now, I would like to remind you all that there is two sides to every story, and I would like to tell/explain my side of the story.

 

About 6 months ago my wife and I met the girl in question, over time we BOTH were falling in love with her and her with us. We were all taking it slow to see how things were going to work out. On the night in question, yes I did know that my wife had started her period earlier that day. When I found this out I asked her "What do you want to do about tonight" and she told me it was up to me if I went ahead with the evening with the other girl. I was unaware that she did not want me to have sex with the other girl without her there, I guess I was just supposed to know this (I screwed up).

 

As the evening went on it was time for the other girl to come over to the house. The evening started with 3 FRIENDS just sitting and talking, and yes there was flirting going on. I once again asked if it was OK for me and the other girl to have sex together, this is when my wife told me that she was uncomfortable with it and she did not think it was a good idea. Yes, I was upset and flustered but I understood. About a 1/2 hour had passed since I had asked the question, and there was still lots of flirting going on (everyone). At this time I was very hard, I had reached down to adjust myself so that I was a little more comfortable. My wife had seen this and she said "Why don't you just take your pants off," so I did. I was a little confused because it was first OK then NOT OK and now it was OK (so I thought).

 

The two girls were sitting on one couch and I was on the other. My wife motioned for me to come over to them and then they both started on me. At this time we all went into the bedroom, I was giving them BOTH a message. About 15min. into the massage my wife gets up to leave I had thought she was giving us "alone" time. Yes, I did end up making love to her and this lasted for about 1 1/2 hours (If you were wondering when my wife and I make love it goes for about 2 to 3 hours). The next day I tried to talk to her and she would not talk. It was not until 3 days later that we talked. She told me that what UPSET her the most was that I got to make love to the other girl and she didn't.

 

Now that being said, I HAVE NEVER, EVER cheated on my wife (in 12 years) and never will. I love my wife with all my heart and soul and would never intentionally do anything to hurt/upset her.

 

After she put her post on here, the thing that she said was unanimous was EVERYONE said you need to talk to your hubby. I want to thank you for this because this made us sit down and talk. Then we both sat down and talked to the other girl, and now everything is "on the table" and we are all on the same page.

 

Once again we would like to Thank you ALL for your time and would like to let everyone know that we are still IN-LOVE and everything worked out

 

PS. Bigmama is not an accurate name for her, she is 5'9" and is a size 7...lol

[lycioos 16]

Glad to hear things are going in the right direction. What concerns me however, about your post, is that you said you were both in love with her. Please, once again, I want to caution you about that. Expecially you, just curious, being the male. Are you still seeing her? If so, please consider that choice very carefully. Feelings can have a way of getting out of control quickly, as you already know. 12 years of marriage is a terrible thing to waste.

[Guest CyberMWCouple]

Just Curious,

 

Yes, you were supposed to know that if your wife can not join in, then no way are you supposed to do anything.

You have been married for 12 years now and this sounds like an argument from a newlywed. I think you have other problems with the relationship. You post that you made love to the other woman.

 

"Yes, I did end up making love to her and this lasted for about 1 1/2 hours"

 

*Slapping you upside the head* HELLO! If your wife went out and fucked some guy and told you that she didn't fuck him, she made love to him, how would you feel? Not very damn good I'll bet.

 

Again, for being married 12 years, you have not been paying very much attention have you?

 

Yes, there are 2 sides to every story, and she is also guilty in this for not speaking up and making it known to you and this other woman. This is why I feel you have other problems. A solid foundation of communication would have prevented this in the first place. Maybe the two of you need to stop swinging for a while and get your marriage put back together. Then decide if swinging is something you want to keep doing.

[Stratecpl 19]

Gee..how did I miss this thread?? LOL.. oh well... Anywho...if Ron, did what Just Curious did his testicles would be hanging from a pole in the front yard right now as a trophy...

[CanadianCouple 18]

Quote

Originally posted by Stratecpl:

if Ron, did what Just Curious did his testicles would be hanging from a pole in the front yard right now as a trophy...

 

Connie

 

Mine just drew up inside reading that. ?

 

Dan

[Guest CyberMWCouple]

*Checking to see if Ron AND Dan is okay....lol*

 

Just Curious & Bigmama...I guess we can NEVER stress enough, that COMMUNICATION IS the key to a successful marriage/relationship, no matter HOW long you've been married! 1-2-12-15-25-55 years, it DOESn't matter....

 

In the short period of time that we've been married together (less than 4 years), we've managed to build a strong foundation through communication.

 

Good communication does not mean, that we never have disagreements. It means, that we're able to discuss our disagreements in an adult fashion. And one of the most important things of communication, is LISTENING, UNDERSTANDING, and ACKNOWLEDGING what each other has said/communicated.

 

Also, actions speak louder than words! When Bigmama walked out of the room, hubby should've excused himself and leave the room to find out what was up with his wife, if she was okay, reassuring HER that even with another woman in their relationship, she is still #1 in his heart, soul, & mind!

 

Sometimes we hear only what we WANT to "hear" (selective hearing  *lol*). And because it was convenient for hubby to "choose" to stay and "make love" with this other woman, that's what HE "heard", by his wife's actions of leaving the room, leaving the two of them together alone. But that wasn't the case...

 

I hope that we've all learned from this experience. Bigmama, you should always say what you mean, and mean what you say! Always be truthful & honest. Sometimes the truth hurts, but if she had said what she REALLY meant, eg. "NO! I don't want you to have sex with her!", then maybe all this aggravation and flustration wouldn't have taken place in the FIRST place?!

 

And I'd have to agree with you, Just Curious....Yes, "you screwed up". But I just thought I'd try to put it in simpler terms for BOTH of you, so there is NO "screwing up" next time! Just EROTIC FUN for both of you to enjoy TOGETHER.

 

Good luck & GLAD things are working out for all of you!

[LaylaSusanne 15]

Thanks, everyone. Yes, our relationship is back on solid footing. And actually getting better with the talking and counseling.

I have to admit, I'm still a bit insecure, but I'm down to only needing occasional reassurances.

 

As for JustCurious, my hubby also said there were two sides to the story, which, of course, there ARE to ANY story. What was so amazing to me was how differently we each viewed certain things.

 

I could see in your and your wife's posts almost exactly the same mistakes we had made. I was trying to please my husband, and make him happy, by doing what he wanted. (No, he NEVER coerced or forced me, this was something inside of ME, the need to please him) It was not something I wanted, myself, and I was uncomfortable about it. I also gave mixed messages. Telling him what I was uncomfortable with something, and then backing down when he looked hurt or upset, or even if I just perceived him to be. Not to mention, the girl we were involved with was a MASTER manipulator. While preaching "comfort levels" and "communication", She saw ANY limits as a sign I wasn't a loving person, or wasn't in a "heart space" (never figured out what the f__k THAT was) and her version of communication was lecturing me on these topics. So, I would set limits, and voice them, and then change them.

 

No wonder he was confused. Hell, I was confused, too.

 

He, on the other hand, also should have been hearing what I was saying, and not trying, with the other girl, to "talk me out" of my true and honest feelings. OR "help me" to "learn" to change my feelings. He also NEVER should have gone away with her, after I told them both I wanted things to slow down for a while. Telling me he needed to "sort things out" and could only do that with her. To me, that was the one point where I KNEW I was no longer being listened to, and my feelings did not matter.

 

But long before any of that, the almost exact situation occurred, where I could not participate, and did not really want them to do anything together. I said this to my hubby before she came over (I had been in the E.R. all day and was VERY sick) Again, like you, it was to be 3 friends hanging out. She was there to help me, as any friend would do for a sick friend. But, there was a lot of flirting, and cuddling and kissing on the couch (just them) (not that I blame them for not wanting to cuddle and kiss me at that moment-I was VERY sick) But then they asked if they could go in the bedroom for a while. I could tell Tom really wanted to, and I didn't want to hear another "jealousy" lecture from her, so I said yes. When I meant NO.

 

But I couldn't expect my hubby to be a mind reader, either. He heard the word "yes" that I spoke out loud, not the "NO" I was screaming in my head. And I didn't say what I was feeling, which was "I don't feel good, I'm sick, and I want you to be here with me, comforting me, like you always have been, not off in our bed having sex with another girl."

 

So, JustCurious, maybe you should have listened to the FIRST thing your wife said, and maybe KEPT checking with her. Either way, I would definitely have followed her out of the room to see what was up. But she also should have made her feelings clear, and stuck by them.

 

Sometimes, you don't realize how hard that is to do. We women are practically brought up to please our husbands. And we love them, and truly want to see them happy. I know, one of the numerous times (in 8 weeks) this girl wanted to call it off, and break up over him wanting to be with me more often, my hubby was crying and looked so much like a hurt little boy. And I wanted to just reach through the phone and strangle her for putting him through this. But, not wanting to EVER see him hurt, I took the phone and, against every better judgement and every fiber of my soul, I begged her not to break up. And asked her to come over, on the only night he and I had been alone since we met her, so we could talk and all be together.

 

I finessed like the Southern Belle that I am. (Mom would have been proud) And the look on his face when she said she would stay, both made me happy, because he was happy, and broke my heart, because I knew I didn't really want this.

 

So, bad communication all around. And, like I said in my first post, I ended up seriously harming myself by holding that all in. But we HAVE learned from it. We learned a lot. Not to hide our feelings. Not to go along with something we're uncomfortable with just to please the other. I've learned that I don't HAVE to always try to please him, or anyone. And we've learned to LISTEN to each other, and even to try and hear what's NOT being said.

 

We had never really had a problem communicating before. We had a very strong relationship. We had been close friends for 6 years before dating, and have been married for 4 years now. And even through all this crap, the friendship was always there. I think that's really important. And I think it's why we are able to hang on through something like this, and stay in love, and find our way back to each other.

 

I again want to urge counseling. There are plenty of therapists who won't bat an eye at an alternative lifestyle. I am glad to hear you guys are doing well, and talked things out. Keep doing that. And CyberMWCouple had a very good point...JustCurious, you NEED to keep telling your wife that she is #1 to you, and will always come first to you. And you need to mean it. My hubby had a (thankfully brief) moment when he told me he couldn't put either of us first, that he loved us both the same. She kept saying to him that I was trying to "pull rank" and declare myself the "Primary" and she wasn't comfortable with that. HELLO!!! I WAS the primary! I was there first, I was there longest, I had the kids, I co-signed the mortgage, I did his laundry, I cleaned the house, I worked 2 jobs when he wanted to start his own business, I ran our business with him, etc., etc. I had known him 10 YEARS. She didn't even make 10 weeks! But at that moment, when he said he could not, and would not, put one of us above the other, and that he loved her as much as he loved me, it broke my heart. And I knew I would just have to let it play out, and whatever choice he made was HIS to make. MY choice was that I was out of it.

 

12 years IS a long time to throw away. You say you love your wife very much. I believe you. PLEASE make sure she knows that, too. As often as you can. Trust me on this. Be sure to always put her first.

 

I know what happened to us was an extreme example. At least, I really hope it was. But if I could say one thing, it would be:

 

BE CAREFUL AND GO SLOW!!!

 

AND TALK, TALK, TALK, TALK, TALK!

[LIZA 20]

This is all so foreign to me...........swinging relationships that involve falling in love......crying on the phone......"breaking up"........all this drama. OUR swinging experiences may be shallow and casual, but thank God they are! What you are going thru is insane.....This is not swinging as I would define it. This is your sposes having romantic affairs, in your home, with your knowledge, consent and assistance.

[LaylaSusanne 15]

Liza, I totally agree with you there!

 

We have definitely decided that we don't want or need the drama. It can be hard enough to maintain a relationship with 2 people, let alone 3, 4, or more.

 

We think that maybe we weren't as prepared for this as we thought. We had only been swinging for a couple of months. Since this happened, we backed off for a while and re-evaluated what we wanted.

 

We decided to keep swinging, and nothing more. We LOVE each other, we have SEX with others. For now, we are limiting things to only 2-3 times, and primarily other couples only. And we set our ground rules, and made a pact to NOT allow each other to break them, no matter what.

 

And we talk to each other a lot more.

 

There's a lot to be said for shallow and casual. That's what we want now. Just to have some good, erotic fun, and NO emotional involvement.

 

[Alice45 15]

I have to agree with the last two posts. I have had a similar experience, tho not as horrendous as Big Mama or the "polyamory" couple.

 

Swinging is just sex. Nothing more. It's about you and yours having fun, then going back to your life.

 

My husband and I met what we thought were a really nice couple. Everything clicked at first and we thought, "Wow, we can be great friends!"

 

Yeah, right.

 

During our third "visit" with them, we all had a bad night as the guys couldn't get hard and all that stuff that goes along with being new swingers. No biggie. We'll call it a night. Just as I get in bed, my husband goes into the kitchen to get a drink of water and the other woman basically corners him. Then, she, my husband and her husband proceed with a threesome. Now I know what you're thinking. Why didn't she get up and tell them to stop? The reality is that when you're in a situation like this (which is so new) you don't know what the hell is going on. I was paralized, basically. I knew my absence would send my husband into the room to find out what was the matter. Guess what? He didn't "come" after me.

 

So, after he "finished", we got into a big fight, left their house, etc. My husband was truly sorry. He's really a good guy, but I had a really hard time with this. I had doubts about myself, our relationship. I mean, swinging was supposed to be FUN!

 

The next day, the guy emails and says something to the degree of "that was a fantasy of mine", etc. I couldn't believe it. I wrote him back and told him what I thought. They wanted to "meet" and sort through matters. I had to summon all my courage and we met them, talked about it, they said they were sorry and we could all be friends.

 

So, trust was somewhat re-instated.

 

We continue to see them on a very regular basis (big mistake) and became what we thought were really close friends. However, the other guy could NEVER get hard with me. NEVER!! We'd all start out doing stuff, then my husband and the other woman would have sex and I'd end up feeling left out becuase this guy didn't "work". This caused a lot of problems in our marriage. It was like we were getting together with them so she and my husband could have sex (no, it was never making love, thank God!) And I went along because I felt they were our friends and I didn't want to hurt their feelings and I didn't want to seem like a bitch and I wanted my husband to enjoy that even if I couldn't. Yet, afterwards, I'd tear into him and make both of us feel like crap about it. And he'd come up with "solutions" as to what we could all do to make the other guy comfortable. This went on for about three months. A very miserable three months in my life. I mean, you get this idea about swinging, how fun it should be and all this (and I'm sure it is!) but what I was experiencing was far from fun.

 

It all came to a head one night we got together. I thought, I'll give this guy one more chance. We all start and he seems to be okay. But, of course, in the end, he couldn't keep a hard-on. I suggest we go into another room and start fresh and he looks over at my husband and his wife and pointedly says "No." He momentarily leaves the room and I'm sitting there watching them and she moans my husband's name!

 

I couldn't take it anymore. I felt like such an idiot. Like I was being played or something.

 

Well, I'm like, forget it and go into another room and have a cigarette. He follows me and we make lame chitchat while my husband is having sex with his wife a room away. Then, she comes into the room after its over and tells us to come back into the living room, turns and flips off the light without a second glance or thought.

 

That night, I told my husband I never wanted to see these people again, etc. He's like, We can still be friends and I'm sorry and I feel like crap and all that. Then he calls them and says, Everyone is not happy here because she and I are the only ones doing anything. I think we should take the sex part out. They agree, however sounding hurt (he says) they agree.

 

Fine. We see them socially one more time, but then I notice the emails have slowed down. We don't get any phone calls. We had always been the ones to invite them, so we decided to see if they would invite us to dinner or anything. Guess what? They didn't.

They invited us camping once, then said he was sick and couldn't go. This happened a few times, so I emailed them and said if they didn't want to be friends, fine, just let us know. They call back and say, Oh, no , we want to be friends and where did you ever get that idea?

 

So, this goes on for a few months. By this time, I am sick of thinking about them. I know these people really aren't our friends. My husband still thinks they are. We finally meet them for lunch and I don't say much. What are you going to say? Thanks for snubbing me? Afterwards, they give us an email saying they thought we were giving them the cold shoulder and didn't want anything to do with us. They also made up all this crap about having to walk on eggshells around us and some other nonsense.

 

That was basically my swinging experience.

 

The thing is, you don't know these people. Not everyone has your best interst at heart. These people, in a way, took advantage of us. They were probably into it only for her to have sex with someone. (There has to be an explination of why he never did it with me.) If they had been our "friends", they would have noticed it wasn't working. In the end, it all ended up being our fault (to them at least). They claimed to not wanting to meet every weekend and only did it because we wanted to. The fact was, we treated them rather nicely. We made them dinners, mixed drinks, drove them around in our car, etc. They took full advantage and didn't recriproicate. The fact is, they used us and were never our friends and was only into it to see what they could get.

 

Be into it for the sex and the fun, then leave it. I know I'll get flamed on this, but these are my feelings. It can work, but I don't believe you can really be friends with people you're having sex with. There are too many egos involved, too many dynamics and feelings.

 

I am only writing this because when I entered into swinging, I was very naive about it. Hopefully, others can read this and learn from my mistakes.

 

[MiCpl 55]

Different things work for different people. For us we make an effort to make friends with people first. And most of our best friends are swingers as well. These friendships are great, mainly because we are friends so we can hang out and do things together.. but at the same time when we want things to get hot and heavy they can as well and we can all be honest with each other about who we are.

 

On the other hand we also have people that we just play with. Sometimes we do pick people up at parties or bars and play.. never to see them again. Sometimes we meet people and play then become friends. Don't count out friendship because of a bad experience. Our first experience was bad.. but that was what taught us that friendship helps.. when you know the person you are playing with better you know how better to turn them on and vice versa.. whereas when you are playing with a complete stranger (or close to) it can still be fun cuz there is that heat of the moment first time passion.. even tho you might be struggling to find their buttons and vice versa.

[LaylaSusanne 15]

I'm afraid I may have given the wrong impression with my previous post.

 

We do want a friendship with the couples we swing with, and we are friends with them. That is actually very important to us. There needs to be a mental connection as well as a physical one for us.

 

What I meant was that we don't want a RELATIONSHIP with anyone else. No one moving in, no girlfriends or boyfriends, etc. Just swinging, and erotic fun with people we find interesting and attractive.

 

We are friends with swingers we don't play with, and these friendships are very good. So are the friendships with people we DO play with. (ALL of these people, BTW, warned us we were getting into dangerous territory with the girlfriend)

 

We have also played with people we met at the Club, who we didn't know, as a one-time thing. That is exciting in it's own way, but we have decided we prefer some sort of connection first. And we like playing with the same group of people (couples) frequently. You DO get to know what someone likes, and they get to know what YOU like.

 

I just wanted to clarify things a bit. (I also wrote the previous post after a nasty message from the ex-girlfriend, so I probably was feeling a little angry and hostile)

[LaylaSusanne 15]

To Alice45:

 

Reading your post, I must say I am sorry for waht you went through. It may not seem so to you, but IMHO, it was every bit as bad as what Bigmama and my hubby and I went through.

 

I just wanted to post a thought that both Tom and I had when reading your experience. It sounds to both of us like this guy could not get it up at all, probably.

 

They may have gotten into swinging just for the wife to be able to have sex, like you thought. We have actually already seen this in person, a few times. Couple comes in, wife goes to play, hubby sits at the bar and drinks, or goes and watches, but doesn't participate. He would play manually, and sometimes orally, but never penetration. (or even take off his clothes)Then we noticed he never got hard.

 

There's nothing wrong with this, as far as I'm concerned, IF the couple is up front about it. It definitely sounds like this couple was not up front and open with you about what they wanted. And violating your boundaries as a couple by having a threesome without you, which was not EXPLICITLY agreed to before hand, was inexcusable. I don't know that I would have given it as many chances. But then again, as you can see by the situation I landed in, I might have.

 

I can certainly say NOW, though, that the FIRST time my rules are broken, it's also the LAST time. I learned THAT lesson!

 

*and thank you for all the wonderful people and posts here that helped me learn that lesson so well*

 

I wish I had found this site BEFORE all this crap happened.

 

[Alice45 15]

L,

 

Thanks for your post. It's good to know people do understand. This experience hasn't totally turned me off swinging mainly because I don't think they knew anything about it.They were somewhat emotionally distant about everything. They were looking for suckers, probably and they found two. I know not all people are like that, it's just soured me a bit, which I hope to get over because we have met some really nice people through this that are nothing like these two.

 

I think that's a very good rule. Once you break a rule, that's it. I think I might adopt that! ?

 

Again, thanks for the post and the kind words. I hope your situation with that girl gets better. Maybe she'll eventually decide to get a life of her own!

[CanadianCouple 18]

Hello Alice --

 

After reading your posts, I felt compelled to address them.

 

Your experience borders on horrific, since it came squarely between you and your husband. Whether or not you continue being involved in the swinging lifestyle is up to both of you, but I'd implore you not to give up on it just yet.

 

Our first experience was a very bad one indeed. Bad enough to turn my wife off the lifestyle for good, but she realized it was the couple, NOT the activity that was the problem. A few months later we connected with a second couple, with whom we enjoyed a sexual relationship for many months. It wasn't perfect and it did have it's problems (what four person relationship won't?), but we learned what it was like to be involved in a positive swinging situation.

 

We've heard of couples who've maintained sexual friendships with the same couple for years, and this is our ultimate goal for ourselves. As the saying goes, there's someone for everyone, it just takes patience finding them. As long as you and your husband have an open channel for communication between you, and NEVER place anyone ahead of your marriage, you're most of the way there.

 

Dan

[Alice45 15]

Dan,

 

I have to say that you hit the nail on the head, as this is exactly what happened. It is true, that you can't put ANYONE over your own relationship and sadly, this is what ended up happening.