Promiscuity-positive feminism?

[TeamSoBe 36]

I was reading the Wikipedia article on sexually liberal feminism just now and I have to wonder how swinging women fit into that mix. The article covers sex-positive feminist positions on pornography, prostitution, BDSM, sexual orientation, and gender identity. The article does NOT mention promiscuity.

 

Many swinging women (and men) consider themselves sex-positive feminists, with no conflict between their promiscuity and feminism. Many swinging women find it sexually liberating to have the option of taking multiple male and female partners.

 

If anybody happens to know of any good authors or other references that I could use to back up the previous paragraph then I would love to hack a new paragraph into that article about it.

[Chicup 41]

Beyond that it involves sex and women I don't see a big connection with swinging.

 

The women I know may view it a bit as a personal liberation from traditional thinking, there isn't really a feminist aspect.

[TeamSoBe 36]

Fair enough.

 

In my mother's day, when she would drag my clueless five-year-old ass and my schnauzer out to ERA marches in cute little slogan T-shirts, proper feminists distanced themselves from all non-mainstream sexuality. All sexuality in general actually. Lesbians fought for recognition and acceptance, and by the 1980's a lesbian could openly refer to herself as a feminist and show up at feminist events or publish feminist literature without too many issues. But she still could barely talk about sex itself and she certainly couldn't be proud of having multiple partners. And a straight woman with multiple partners was still considered very counter to the movement. That was 20 years ago.

 

As a male, I'm not going to push it much. The article is on feminism after all. But IMO the article is out of date. The article properly reflects the fight for acceptance that lesbians went through but it stops there.

 

Since the 1980's, where "sex-positive feminism" apparently ceased forward progress, we've seen Demi chase Ashton. We've seen Samantha on Sex & The City chase everybody. Nelly Furtado sings about being a promiscuous girl. There are whole swing event series devoted to giving women control of the seduction. Am I just imagining that women have new options to be promiscuous feminists?

[Amanda69 24]

First off despite the attempts of co-workers and teachers to convert me I am NOT and will never be a feminist. That is a whole long tirade we won't go into here. Though curious if many other females in the lifestyle consider themselves feminist?

 

Promiscuity is the practice of making relatively unselective, casual and indiscriminate choices.

 

The term is most commonly applied to sexual behavior, where it refers to sex that is not in the framework of a steady sexual relationship, or occurs in multiple, simultaneous sexual relationships. People who are called "promiscuous", within the scope of this usage, may actually be quite selective in their choice of sexual partners. Nonetheless, because of the popularity of this usage, the remainder of this article discusses sexual promiscuity.

 

A common criticism of sexual promiscuity is the potential to run a higher risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) including HIV which may eventually lead to AIDS. Promiscuous behaviour requires strict application of safer sex measures, in order to reduce this risk. However, consecutive monogamous sexual relationships (serial monogamy) without safer sex measures can pose a similar risk.

 

In some cases, excessively promiscuous behaviour is caused by definite pathology such as manic episodes of bipolar disorder, some forms of brain tumors, or alcohol and substance abuse.

 

I don't know I still don't like the word, for me it seems to have negative conotations and is more often used for women than men. In other words a polite way of calling women a "slut".

[Chicup 41]

My guess is sex positive feminism is a result of a backlash to the feminism of the 60's and 70's which contained not only lesbians but many unattractive women looking for a cause to blame for their lack of a sex life. Its a harsh statement but I think thats where a lot of the anti-sex anti-male feelings from early feminism originates, and there were not many attractive or average women in that group.

 

Sex positive is just saying its ok to like sex, enjoy men, and still be a feminist.

[2jersey 16]

We own one of the books referenced in your Wikipedia article - The Ethical Slut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethical_Slut

 

We came of age after the feminist movement (we think), and we're not really sure if it is still alive (or what it is/was).... But The Ethical Slut certainly expounds on some rebellious concepts related to the ideals of female liberation. Definitely worth a read...

[TeamSoBe 36]

I don't know I still don't like the word, for me it seems to have negative conotations and is more often used for women than men. In other words a polite way of calling women a "slut".

You say that like it's a bad thing?

 

Is there a term for taking multiple sexual partners that isn't negative? If not then it's the concept itself that's perceived as negative, which is exactly what I'm talking about. The notion that a promiscuous woman is harming all women in general with her behavior.

 

Do all people who see themselves as feminists still think that, or is that concept eroding? That's what I'm asking. I believe that there is now a niche within feminism that can accept swinging women as empowered, rather than as detrimental to women in general. But hey I could be wrong.

[TeamSoBe 36]

Google is the coolest. Cornell University feminist sex columnist covers exactly what I'm talking about. She even got slammed in a Washington Times article for her "slutty feminism".

 

My favorite quote:

 

Monique E Stewart said:

Female college students of the slut feminism camp are finally equal to the men. It's a shame, though, that they view equality as an equal number of notches on their belts.

"The slut feminism camp", I love that...

[Chicup 41]

TeamSoBe said:

Google is the coolest. Cornell University feminist sex columnist covers exactly what I'm talking about. She even got slammed in a Washington Times article for her "slutty feminism".

 

My favorite quote:

 

"The slut feminism camp", I love that...

 

In a movement dominated by lesbians and ugly women, such a reaction is expected.

[TeamSoBe 36]

Chicup said:

In a movement dominated by lesbians and ugly women, such a reaction is expected.

Well that was awfully prejudicial? Lesbians actually had to fight for acceptance in feminist circles until only recently, and calling the rest of them ugly is just silly. It seems like a surprising number of people here have the same disdain for the word "feminist" that plenty of Americans have for the word "swinger". "Ewwww, gross..." Just when you think you've found a bunch of open-minded people...

 

The reasons for mainstream feminism traditionally downplaying sexuality are obvious enough. Even here in a swingers' forum we have women who have a gut negative reaction to the words "promiscuous" and "slut", so in order to maintain credibility the feminist movement had to avoid giving opponents ammunition. Susan B Anthony couldn't have run around flirting with men and still accomplished what she did since she already bore the brunt of so much opposition.

 

But haven't things changed at all? In a world where a woman runs Playboy, can't a woman still be a feminist even if she does have fake tits and hair extensions?

 

My wife, in a professional setting, can be flirtatious and she can discuss sex openly when the men do. Not over the top, but she has a sex drive and she doesn't feel obligated to hide it any more than her male golfing partners do. My mother did not have that option in her day. I like to think that my mother and the feminists of the 1970's paved the way toward my wife's ability to be both a feminist and a slut simultaneously.

[Chicup 41]

Actually no, I didn't pre judge them, I judged them on their merits.

 

The ugly ones I'm speaking of are the straight man haters of the feminist movement of the 60's and 70's. Misery loves company after all.

[TeamSoBe 36]

Okay but again that's silly because it was so far in the past. I'm talking about feminists from 2006, not from ancient history. The 60's were forty years ago at this point. Generations X and Y have both left their mark on feminism.

[Chicup 41]

Okay but again that's silly because it was so far in the past. I'm talking about feminists from 2006, not from ancient history. The 60's were forty years ago at this point. Generations X and Y have both left their mark on feminism.

 

Thats like saying you can only look at American history from the 80's on and think you understand the big picture. The taint of the radical feminists didn't just disapear with a new generation. Those 'modern' feminists had to rebel in their own way from them and that school of thought, its not like all the 60's and 70's feminists are dead or that they still don't have influence.

[TeamSoBe 36]

The taint of the radical feminists didn't just disapear with a new generation. Those 'modern' feminists had to rebel in their own way from them and that school of thought, its not like all the 60's and 70's feminists are dead or that they still don't have influence.

Right, to me it seems like 'slut feminists' are the modern version of the 1970's lesbian feminists. The 'feminist sex wars' raged for decades because of the fear of the Dworkinites about being associated with lesbians. The same sort of conservative mindset is represented in that Washington Times article, but there are endless reams of blog posts in Google about "slut feminism" from younger women.

 

Regardless of the fascinating revulsion around here toward feminism, I did manage to find enough references to 'slut feminism' to update the article on sex-positive feminism.

[Concupiscence 16]

In some ways I have to agree with Chicup. I see so many blogs, organizations, meetings, flyers, ad nauseum that have the entire purpose of denigrating anyone who doesn't tow their particular brand of feminism that I do everything that I can to dissociate myself from that word. Pretty much my entire life has been spent doing things that are male-dominated activities or holding views that are supposedly contrary to the so-called feminist ideal. Even so, it took me most of my life to openly advocated a sex-positive attitude despite privately held beliefs and fantasies. Hell, I was reading Heinlein when I was in 8th grade and yet I was outwardly very prudish about my attitudes towards sex and how women should conduct themselves.

 

I do agree that the women who fought for suffrage and equal rights were brave pioneers and deserve to be honored. It is those who took advantage of the message for their own personal political goals that I despise. They have made it a crime to be anything outside of their own narrow definition of what a "liberated woman" is supposed to be. Part of my gripe is that I am just fed up with labels and attempting to corral people into little doubleplus good groupthink check-the-block conformers.

 

"Hey! I'm sex-positive therefore I must adhere to and only espouse , oh yeah and all conservatives are homophobic corporate Christian-military-industrial complex shills who wack off secretly to underage ladyboy panty sniffer magazines while snorting oxycotin through the wing bones of the endangered American Condor."

 

I am only exaggerating a little.

[TeamSoBe 36]

They have made it a crime to be anything outside of their own narrow definition of what a "liberated woman" is supposed to be. Part of my gripe is that I am just fed up with labels and attempting to corral people into little doubleplus good groupthink check-the-block conformers.

That was a great post, and it's interesting to me that you're agreeing, rather than disagreeing, with some of the 'third-wave' sex-positive feminists.

 

For example I was just reading this interview with feminist authors Jennifer Baumgardner and Amy Richards:

Q: In this way, do you think Second Wavers did not come to grips with the power of their sexuality, that since it had been practically the only source of their power, they had to repress it in order to fight for economic and social justice--and now what has been repressed is resurfacing?

 

Richards: Yes, I think it's also that we realize there's more than one way to be sexual. Historically, there was only one way, at least it was perceived that way, and that's what people were resisting. And I think now there are many ways to be sexual--athleticism is sexy, different body types are sexy, androgyny is sexy.

...and sleeping with boys for fun is sexy.

[Concupiscence 16]

I am glad to see that there is a change in how "Feminists" wish to be perceived. I am still leery though, there is still that desire to lump all women in together politically if they ascribe to feminism. Although the book authors do a great job of staying away from politics, the interviewer initially mentioned universal health care as a "woman's issue" as though there is no question about ALL women being passionate advocates and that is a specific reason that I would still refuse to accept the label. The media will never allow for individualism.

 

I do appreciate that 3rd-wavers should just pursue the issue they think are important and not worry about what others say they should believe in. I think that is what everyone should do instead of worrying about what the media or anyone else says. The book sounds pretty fascinating as well, I shall have to check it out. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

[BiWoman33 15]

Without Feminists and the militant lesbians, 80% of the women who do swing in any capacity would not be ANYWHERE near it right now. And all you men who love your wives for it are just as much the beneficiaries of the entire movement.It's also quite clear that you still don't even understand what it took to accomplish it. Shut up and eat your cake!

[Pepper & Drew 384]

Oh, now this is interesting.....A friend of mine and I have had plenty of discussion on this.

 

I have two books for you, TeamSoBe, that examine this very issue. Whores and Other Feminists and Fast Girls .

 

I consider myself to be a feminist. I'm not militant, but I definitely am woman-positive. But, I do not agree with some of the mainstream feminist beliefs, or at least the feminists of the 60's and 70's. I think that feminists (or the stereotypical ones) are a victim of the same culture that they're trying to change. By saying that women who are in porn are being oppressed and degraded is really saying that these women don't have enough brains to think on their own. By saying that implants (for example) are anti-feminists, it's saying that women should have the choice of what to do with their bodies (sound familiar?). By saying that women who are sexually promiscuous have poor self-esteem is saying that women don't have the right to have sex just for the joy and pleasure of having sex.

 

I used to worry a lot about the fact that I had had sex outside of committed relationships in high school and college, and used to wonder if I actually had low self-esteem, or if my daddy didn't hug me enough, yada, yada, yada. But, since we've been in the lifestyle, it's been very empowering for me to know that there's absolutely nothing wrong with me and that, in fact, I think I have more self respect, self-esteem and control of my body than most of the "good girls" that I wanted to be like.

 

TeamSoBe said:

But haven't things changed at all? In a world where a woman runs Playboy, can't a woman still be a feminist even if she does have fake tits and hair extensions?

 

My wife, in a professional setting, can be flirtatious and she can discuss sex openly when the men do. Not over the top, but she has a sex drive and she doesn't feel obligated to hide it any more than her male golfing partners do. My mother did not have that option in her day. I like to think that my mother and the feminists of the 1970's paved the way toward my wife's ability to be both a feminist and a slut simultaneously.

 

I like to think that things ARE changing. Hell, I have fake tits and hair extensions, I'm taken seriously at work, and I don't have to feel guilty about liking recreational sex. I think I can have all of those things and be a feminist because I truly think that feminism is about being free to be the woman that you are, without limitation.

 

Pepper

[Concupiscence 16]

Biwoman,

 

Was that directed towards me? I am female and yes I DO understand what it took to accomplish it. I have not only been a soldier AND directly fought to protect the rights of others, I have also been to countries that do NOT allow women ANY rights. To say that the gentlemen who are participating in this conversation don't understand it is bullshit and prejudicial.

[Hemera 15]

The attitude toward feminists depicting them as hairy lesbians is so disappointing. I am a feminist. You don't have to march on the White House and protest to be a feminist. You also don't have to believe that women are better than men. To be a feminist, to me, you simply need to believe that in some way, shape or form, women have or are getting the shaft (no pun intended). For instance, I get irked over the refusal of contraceptive care by some pharmacists (something that to me, a swinger, is very important!).

 

As for sex-positive feminism? Yeah, there's some dark parts to women's roles in the sex industry. Underage girls being coerced into pornography, the international child sex trade, body dysmorphia, and the like. But we ladies have just as much a role in sex and just as much a right to like it! (There is the issue that women think of sex in terms of how men define it--see faking orgasms, et cetera. I also realize this and keep it in mind when defining my sexuality.)

 

So I think that a huge part of why I swing is attributed to me exploring my options in a world where it's easier to do so. I can't imagine it's been any easier in the past 100 years to openly have multiple same-sex and opposite-sex partners in a loving, honest relationship without becoming pregnant or sick. I have feminism in part to thank for the acceptance of multiple sexualities, freely available contraceptive and reproductive care, and women as empowered individuals (and in my case, it's in the bedroom! ).

 

Apologies for my long-winded post. I just wanted to express my thoughts on how feminism and sexual empowerment mesh together. I apologize also if this comes off as too political--in that case, please let me know!

[BiWoman33 15]

Concupiscence;

No , the remark was not directed AT you, but you did agree with Chicup, just a little, I think, oooohhh, maybe. In reviewing the posts again, I find myself surprised that you are merely NEAR Lake Superior.

 

Anyone can blog- it doesn't make them an expert. You don't need to read a thousand different viewpoints to know what you think about something. Blogs are largely BS; someone's self-obsessed public diary.If they piss you off, why do you read them? Hardcore feminism is still fringe, at best. Why does it bother you? They still do the work that most women won't- push back at the women hating men who still suppress females.

 

The day we have liberation is the day we no longer have to justify anything to anyone. We are very far from that, here and in the countries you have visited where women have no rights. Do you think these women should stop? Are they directing their ire at you because you enjoy a more open sexual life? I don't think so. They don't give a whit what couple you are meeting this weekend. They do and will continue to effect change, however, even if we can't screw them because they hate bisexuals.

[Concupiscence 16]

BiWoman,

I specifically stated that I agreed with Chicup and I do. You have obviously decided that because I defended these guys rights to discuss the topic and be open and honest about their feelings that I ,therefore, am misinformed and obnoxiously biased. I read MANY things, especially the writings of people that piss me off and differ from my viewpoint. It's called understanding both sides of the issues, you should look into it. Perhaps you should consider reading something other than the New York Times. Why is it that your self-absorbed opinion, or mine for that matter, rates higher than anyone elses? Why is it that your brand of feminism is "truer" to the "cause?" If you read my previous post in it's entirety you would know that I lauded those women for taking a stand. I am not so impressed with contemporary feminists who get paid to talk a lot of shit and slam other women who DO break down barriers and are successful on their OWN terms. Those are the true feminists, not the auditorium dwellers who write oh-so-pithy articles in Mother Jones or New Yorker.

 

A bitter two percent of the population is attempting to browbeat the others into a life of hairshirts and supplication to their local lesbian demigods. I don't give a two shits if a woman is a lesbian, bi, straight, transgender or a crossdresser. I judge people on their merits and their attitudes, I judge them on whether they take responsibility for their actions and whether or not they cloak themselves in a victim mentality.

 

I'd be happy to toss out a few hundred names of true pioneers of women's liberation and NONE of them wasted their time ranting about the evils of that piece of skin attached to the end of a penis. You can have your shrill media whores, I'll take the awesome men and women of the world who are smart and happy and give 100% to everything they do. They are the backbone of civilization and their strength and pride is the sexiest thing in the whole world.

[BiWoman33 15]

"A bitter two percent of the population is attempting to browbeat the others into a life of hairshirts and supplication to their local lesbian demigods."

 

I have no brand of feminism, I just don't bash the others, which is what the thread is about, feminism. I don't care what didactic bits you care to throw at me, honey, I've read ALL your threads...

[Concupiscence 16]

Great, I'm so pleased. The problem started with you slamming the guys for stating their opinions about the wikipedia article. I am the one who was actually disappointed with feminism, which is why I assumed that you were speaking to me. Yeah, I get preachy and pull out my soapbox when I see people attempt to intellectually intimidate others. Granted, for all you know I am unaware of the sacrifices of women crusaders in the past BUT when I clearly state my awareness of them, I like to think that it gives an indication that I may have a small understanding. You do not have to like my viewpoint and you don't have to like the other viewpoints but you don't have the right to chastise men for discussing the sacred topic of feminism and declare that they have no idea what sacrifices were made. If that was not your intent, then some clarification should have occurred instead of you attempting to intellectually intimidate me. Honey.

[TeamSoBe 36]

...you don't have to like the other viewpoints but you don't have the right to chastise men for discussing the sacred topic of feminism and declare that they have no idea what sacrifices were made.

I didn't take her post in that way. I agreed with what she said about promiscuous feminists of today riding on the backs of the more conservative feminists of the 1970's. I really don't think that my wife would have the options that she has now if it weren't for my mother and her bra-burning friends. Now the bra-burning is obsolete and women can have their implants and their independence at the same time if they want.

 

If anybody were to tell me to shut up and not discuss feminism then I would be truly offended. I have marched on state capitals in the sun for equal rights ammendments. I have physically defended womens' health clinics from Operation Rescue. I have dedicated my life to a strong, independent woman who I see as an equal. I have earned the right to fly the feminist flag if I like.

[Concupiscence 16]

BiWoman33 said:

Without Feminists and the militant lesbians, 80% of the women who do swing in any capacity would not be ANYWHERE near it right now. And all you men who love your wives for it are just as much the beneficiaries of the entire movement.It's also quite clear that you still don't even understand what it took to accomplish it. Shut up and eat your cake!

 

Then I misinterpreted the highlighted portion of Biwoman's statement and I have no clue what other interpretation or who else she might have been directing it to.

[BiWoman33 15]

Unfortunately, it is a hot button topic, and I am just as guilty, but there is really only one person it was directed at, and he has respectfully, I think(?) bowed out of this one. However, the vein of humor was lost along the way...

[BiWoman33 15]

ANd Concupescence- You are clearly extremely intelligent; you shouldn't allow anyone to threaten that; not even me. And Gloria Steinem lives on the block behind me, and everyday I see her I practically salute. With my implants.

[Concupiscence 16]

truce?

[BiWoman33 15]

Truce.

[Chicup 41]

 

If anybody were to tell me to shut up and not discuss feminism then I would be truly offended. I have marched on state capitals in the sun for equal rights ammendments. I have physically defended womens' health clinics from Operation Rescue. I have dedicated my life to a strong, independent woman who I see as an equal. I have earned the right to fly the feminist flag if I like.

 

Not to stir the pot but can you still be pro-feminist if you think the ERA was a bad amendment and don't like abortion?

 

This is where concept and ideology collide. Where feminist becomes more of a party and less of an ideal. Is Anne Coulter any less of a feminist than Gloria Steinem?

[TeamSoBe 36]

Not to stir the pot but can you still be pro-feminist if you think the ERA was a bad amendment and don't like abortion?

Er, no. My mom was real active in NOW. Pro ERA. We were the people that the Operation Rescue fundamentalists threw plastic fetuses at, and phoned death threats to. They're still doing that to people as far as I know but I'm not so active any more on the grounds that I'm a boy.

 

IMHO a feminist is any person of either gender who believes that women should have the same options that men have. Big part of how I ended up a swinger I think.

[2jersey 16]

Not to stir the pot but can you still be pro-feminist if you think the ERA was a bad amendment and don't like abortion?

 

This is where concept and ideology collide. Where feminist becomes more of a party and less of an ideal. Is Anne Coulter any less of a feminist than Gloria Steinem?

 

I'm not claiming any expertise here (although Mom graduated from Welsley) - but I believe there should be room for a woman to embrace the concept of equality between the sexes while distancing herself from the issues of pro-abortion and the outdated ERA.

 

Personally - the only 'ism' that I can possibly relate to is 'humanism'.

[Chicup 41]

Er, no. My mom was real active in NOW. Pro ERA. We were the people that the Operation Rescue fundamentalists threw plastic fetuses at, and phoned death threats to. They're still doing that to people as far as I know but I'm not so active any more on the grounds that I'm a boy.

 

IMHO a feminist is any person of either gender who believes that women should have the same options that men have. Big part of how I ended up a swinger I think.

 

So because one anti-abortion group was mean to you, you can only be a feminist if you are pro-abortion or am I reading your reply wrong? This is related to the rights of a man how?

[TeamSoBe 36]

I was very active in the National Organization for Women, even though college, because my mom was. A "feminist" organization by any standard. That's as clear as I can be about that. I didn't start this thread to assert myself as a feminist though so it's irrelevant.

 

I started this thread because I don't see any conflict between how my wife behaves and the feminist ideals as I interpret them. But she and other swinger women who I know and respect don't seem to fit into that article on sex-positive feminism. Is their behavior against feminism, or has feminism entitled them to express new facets of femininity? The article, like many peoples' perception, seems a little out of date.

[Concupiscence 16]

I think the real -ism to be concerned about is "schism" which is what has occurred doctrine-wise. The bottom line is that we have the freedom to actually argue over what the true definition of feminism is without fear of repercussion. Once it reaches the level of the academic, in some ways the battle has been won.

[Chicup 41]

I think the real -ism to be concerned about is "schism" which is what has occurred doctrine-wise. The bottom line is that we have the freedom to actually argue over what the true definition of feminism is without fear of repercussion. Once it reaches the level of the academic, in some ways the battle has been won.

 

I'm not sure 'we' are there, apparently feminism is still narrowly defined just now you can enjoy sex too

[BiWoman33 15]

"Not to stir the pot but can you still be pro-feminist if you think the ERA was a bad amendment and don't like abortion?"

 

No one likes abortion, Chicup. Not one woman who has had one likes it. It's just not an option that can be decided by the law. Do you understand what an impact that would have on women's sexuality? Are men responsible enough to not get a woman pregnant on his own? Because that's what it'd be left to, relying on men to keep a woman from gettting

pregnant. The pill is not a blanket choice for all women, nor are condoms.

Yes, you can be pro-feminist if you don't like abortion.

[Chicup 41]

"Not to stir the pot but can you still be pro-feminist if you think the ERA was a bad amendment and don't like abortion?"

 

No one likes abortion, Chicup. Not one woman who has had one likes it. It's just not an option that can be decided by the law. Do you understand what an impact that would have on women's sexuality? Are men responsible enough to not get a woman pregnant on his own? Because that's what it'd be left to, relying on men to keep a woman from gettting

pregnant. The pill is not a blanket choice for all women, nor are condoms.

Yes, you can be pro-feminist if you don't like abortion.

 

I'm not going to get into an abortion debate here and there plenty of places on the net we can waste our time on it, besides I would crush you all if that were to become an issue here

 

I used the term 'like' since it was the most non-buzzword I could think of since the issue wasn't really abortion but a narrow definition of feminism based more on political leanings and upbringing than any concept of equality. Had I used stronger or 'political' language the focus would have shifted to a debate on abortion instead of the concept 'can a woman be pro-life/anti-abortion/insert buzzterm here and a feminist'. Since the answer I recieved was basically to trust someones mother I will assume this is too much of a question for a board on swingers issues and best discussed elsewhere.

 

Over all I'd say it has very little to do with swinging in any case, as from the few polls I've seen done (on LL before they banned all poliltical stuff back in 2004 rather then spend all day moderating the boards, and a few other places) swingers come from all political segments but most come from right of center which would be counter intuative until you really look at who seem to be the 'average' swingers, at least in the internet crowd.

 

As such we may all have our personal backrounds that lead us to swinging that doesn't mean they are in any way shape or form universal or even remotely alike.

[HotMoCpl 20]

Considering that MOST religeous texts are written by men who have NO CLUE or are jealouse that women can last so much longer then men: I'd have to say that if I rewrote those texts, women should have at least three husbands.

[Concupiscence 16]

head bang

 

Chicup...it's that kind of bitterness that I was bemoaning with many women! Biwoman is RIGHT about those political issues and you are taking the hardline just as much as any marxist lesbian man-hater. It is the freedom to have political opinions and be a part of the political process. It is the implicit acceptance that women can compete solely based upon their merits. I really don't care what your political opinions are as long as you don't care that it is a woman who is disregarding them. As long as you see me as just another warm body that you wish to debate logically and factually, then I am all over it. LOL Debate is foreplay for me I LOVE it !

 

I would say that the attitude about swinging is relevant in to sex-positive feminism (notice that subtle segue back to the OP topic) because it isn't about men handing over their chattels to their neighbor to use as they will. Men respect their wives wishes as women can now respect their own bodies and their own needs and still respect their husbands. I hope that sentence made sense. The fact that men such as yourself have shed the "she is MINE" attitude is a huge step forward for women. Now if only most women could also shed that attitude because my neighbor's hubby is HOT (joking).

 

So the answer to the question is a definite and resounding YES.

 

...or possibly no. (Sorry, Monty Python takes over my brain more often than is healthy)

[Chicup 41]

 

Chicup...it's that kind of bitterness that I was bemoaning with many women! Biwoman is RIGHT about those political issues and you are taking the hardline just as much as any marxist lesbian man-hater.

 

What hardline am I taking? I agree with your points on feminism, what I didn't agree with was another mans (ironic I know) stance on what you have to believe to be a feminist.

[Concupiscence 16]

Uh...well, the imaginary hardline that I conjured out of thin air after mixing up everyone's posts and combining them into one stew. So let THAT be a lesson for you. Pay absolutely NO attention to me :P

[TeamSoBe 36]

I used the term 'like' since it was the most non-buzzword I could think of since the issue wasn't really abortion but a narrow definition of feminism based more on political leanings and upbringing than any concept of equality.

Yes my question was about narrow definitions of feminism. Not mine. My question originally was about how different flavors of feminists in the here and now would interpret the promiscuous behavior of a swinging woman. Abortion is completely peripheral and only came up because of a passing mention of the National Organization for Women.

 

I think that it's obvious that there are plenty of conservative feminists who would have trouble looking at a woman on her back getting gang banged and seeing a liberated woman. I have been curious to learn more about more liberal interpretations of feminism from more recent times that look at that gang bang as something that the woman is entitled to enjoy if she likes, and something that isn't counter-productive in the overall struggle toward equality. Thanks for the book references, Pepper & Drew, I'm about to order both of those.

 

I'm kind of struggling with whether my mother could respect my wife if she really knew everything. Or me. For me it's kind of what Christians deal with when they struggle with guilt over swinging, thinking that Jesus wouldn't want them to be doing those things.

 

Over all I'd say it has very little to do with swinging in any case, as from the few polls I've seen done (on LL before they banned all poliltical stuff back in 2004 rather then spend all day moderating the boards, and a few other places) swingers come from all political segments but most come from right of center which would be counter intuative until you really look at who seem to be the 'average' swingers, at least in the internet crowd.

This thread is about respect for promiscuous women, which has everything to do with swinging.