Cut or Uncut?

[Bob123 15]

Getting your son circumcised because of his peer group.

 

My parents always used to say "If everyone was jumping off a bridge would you do it also" To which I would reply "Yes, of course"

 

I do see your point and it is a good one. Think of it this way. If your son wants to be like the other boys he can make a choice to be circumcised. If he wanted his foreskin back he could not get it back. I would love to know what it feels like to have foreskin. I can never do that. If I had foreskin and wanted to be circumcised I could do that.

 

When your son grows up he will be able to chose what further education, language, bedtime, toilet, country, medicine, nutrition and so on. He will not be able to chose to have his penis intact.

 

What do you think of female circumcision? If you moved to the middle east would you have your daughters circumcised? You would want your daughters to fit in and look like all the other girls wouldn't you? Have it done when she is a baby she will never know the difference. If I shared the point of view that if she never knew what life was like with a clitoris it would not hurt her to be without one. But I do not share that veiw.

 

My veiw is that IT IS WRONG TO CIRCUMCISE CHILDREN NO MATTER WHAT SEX THEY ARE OR WHAT YOU CUT OFF OF THEM!!

[wiscpl 22]

I was uncircumcised until I turned 24. At that time I was in the military and decided to get the procedure done at the expense of the tax payers. (I'm going to hear it this, I know!) For so many years I felt different because I wasn't a "helmet head". After having the procedure done I can tell you there is a huge difference. Most sensitivity is lost! Gone forever never to be felt again. Oral stimulation as well as vaginal penetration just don't stimulate me like it used to. For this reason we decided not to have our boys circumcised. Other parents have asked us if we are worried about how they will be treated when they reach adolescence. We wonder how their children will be treated, after all their children are the ones who've been altered from their natural state.

 

As I mentioned oral stimulation changed after the procedure. Before when I received a I could almost always cum, now it is a rare event.

 

Our pediatrician told us it is a growing trend not to do the procedure. Just keep the foreskin cleaned and you will be fine.

 

I read somewhere that this practice began somewhere in the 1800's to stop a man from masturbating. I don't know others but it sure hasn't changed a thing for me.

[Roxysbayou 20]

I had my babies circumsized...I don't have a good reason, other than the doctor saying that I should. You guys have convinced me to regret that decision. I hang my head.

[Bob123 15]

May my forskin rest in peace.

 

 

Old habits die hard! My aunt has lung cancer, she has had it for six years. Whenever anyone tells her she should stop smoking she tells them it is BS and that cigarettes are not bad for you.

 

I think sometimes people have such a problem with change that they would rather stay in a harmful position than move to a healthy one.

 

But then again maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is good for a child to have peices of them cut off. But I would rather error on the side of keeping them whole. Then if one day they decide it is better to slice and dice their genitals then they could do it.

[Chris&Amelia 253]

Woah woah woah. Geeze. Calm down, people.

 

Some people are making it sound like getting circumcised is the end of the world. "I was circumcised as a child! Woe be me!"

 

I was circumcised when I was an infant. As was my brother. I see no problems with it. I'm glad my parents got me circumcised. I personally like the way my penis looks. My wife sure prefers cut men over un-cut men. If I really have lost some sensitivity down there (as many are implying) then so be it. That may explain why I'm able to hold off my orgasm for quite a while, and make sure my female partners are ready for me to come.

 

Is there anything wrong with men who aren't circumcised? Of course not! But let's stop for a second and catch our breaths. Those of us who have been circumcised are in any way not disadvantaged or inferior to un-circumcised men (or vise-versa). We're simply different.

 

Isn't exploring people's differences and your own sexuality with your life mate the entire purpose of our lifestyle?

 

There seems to be a surprising amount of self-loathing going on in this thread. Step back, relax, and chill out. Barring that, seek professional help.

[ionsawmill 86]

Genesis 17:10-11, 23-24; Exodus 4:24 and Joshua 5:2-3 show how important foreskins and circumcision are to the Judeo-Christian God. In 1 Samuel 1:19-20 David even buys a wife with 200 Philistine foreskins. (Ladies, how many foreskins are you worth?) Personally, I have to ask myself why an omnicient and omnipotent being would be so obsessed with a little flap of skin if it's not that the little flap of skin provides a man with such pleasure. As for Christians, circumcision should have no religious significance at all. The covenant was with Jews, not Gentiles. And yet, some Christians still circumcise in an effort to keep this covenant while preaching that Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient.

 

On the medical front, there are doctors and medical organizations that don't want to lose face by admitting that they've been wrong for a hundred years. The millions made on circumcisions, circumcision equipment, followup surgeries for botched circumcisions and drugs and surgery to correct unexplained impotence in adults also adds up to more than they are willing to sacrifice.

 

What it often comes down to is not medicine or religion, but ignorance, embarassment and naivety on the part of parents. They assume that any procedure as old as circumcision must be practical and necessary. They ignore facts in favor of fallacies. Most fathers dread talking to their sons about sex, much less showing them how to clean their penises. What's wrong with a little unnecessary surgery if it means a son's penis will look just like dear old dad's. (How superficial can you get.) As for the "locker room teasing" excuse, teens deal a host of embarassing subjects during puberty, including hair growth, acne and masturbation. They can handle it if they're taught to be proud of an intact penis. Then, it will be the circumcised boys who feel strange and different.

 

God wants our foreskins. The medical establishment wants our money. Our dads don't want to deal with it. Does anybody really see an end to this?

[NightGoddess 16]

Quote

"Some people are making it sound like getting circumcised is the end of the world. "I was circumcised as a child! Woah be me!" "

---Chris&Amelia

Um, If I said anything that offended w/regards to posting information about the effects of circumcision on coitus, I apologize. Be assured, though, that it does have an effect. There are men who have chosen to avail themselves of counseling for issues around unresolved rage and inability to trust. There is some strong evidence a cause and effect may be in force. Also, there are a fair number of men who are having circumcision reversals performed.

 

Quote

"Those of us who have been circumcised are in any way not disadvantaged or inferior to un-circumcised men." --Chris&Amelia

However, there is a difference.

 

Perhaps the issue has moved from Cut vs. Uncut...to the rights of children. That is an emotionally charged issue, for sure.

 

Nobody likes the 'visual' of a newborn (or any age!) boy strapped to the Circumstraint, screaming and writhing in pain until he loses consciousness.

 

I think someone mentioned earlier it seems inappropriate that a boy's first shared sexual experience is a horribly painful one. It runs contrary to our primary goal in parenting= to protect our children from physical harm.

 

Quote

"If I really have lost some sensitivity down there (as many are implying) then so be it."--Chris&Amelia

The latest evidence appears to be pretty conclusive. A lot of sensitivity is lost. It's true that most circumcised men accept this once they learn what happened.

 

The question arises: is this what we really want for our kids?

 

Quote

"There seems to be a surprising amount of self-loathing going on in this thread. Step back, relax, and chill out. Barring that, seek professional help." --Chris&Amelia

Now it's my turn to ask for some clarification....is it the topic as stated, Cut vs Uncut that you are addressing w/this statement, or is it the related question --- Now that we know what circumcision does, should we tell our Healthcare Providers to stop doing this?

 

Thanks for listening. NightGoddess

[OhioCouple 40]

NightGoddess, I've just got to get some better clarification on this.

Also, there are a fair number of men who are having circumcision reversals performed.

First off how can a reversal be done? Secondly, scar tissue becomes 'dead' tissue. How can that affect be over ridden, especially when the shaft would be receiving addtional surgical treatment, therefore deadening the sensitivity even further? The penis doesn't have a lot of room to operate when it comes to the area in which the foreskin is attached. I would have to think that attempting a reversal would maybe reduce all chances of ever having any sort of sensitivity again.

 

My husband is cirumcised but has one of the most extremely sensitive of penis' . How can that be explained if the loss of foreskin 'made him less sensitive'? Is it a mind set?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with cirumcision, but I can't see where any of the men I have ever known have suffered due to it.

[Bob123 15]

All people's different sensitivities and thresholds are different. Your husband may be more sensitive than other men but he would have probably been more sensitive if he was not circumcised.

 

As for restoration you can never have the skin nerves and blood vessels back. But if you stretch the penis skin over time it will produce more skin cells and begin to look like a uncut penis.

 

I do not know any women who have suffered from breast cancer. But I do believe that some do.

[NightGoddess 16]

OhioCouple:

The book I would refer you to is called, "The Joy of Uncircumcising" by Jim Bigelow and James L. Snyder, published by Hourglass Books (through amazon.com) ASIN#093406122X for $158.00 USD plus shipping. I won't get into the surgical technique, as that would not be appropriate here.

I understand what you mean about sensitivity. I'll describe briefly what is meant by the major loss of sensitivity. Imagine that the head/glans of the penis is not the dry skin associated with the look of an adult man's 'cut' penis. Instead, it is like the skin that lines your mouth, moist and as sensitive as your tongue....exquisitely so. The skin that covers the glans is also much softer, more moist, and just as sensitive. In fact, the concentration of nerve endings in this so called insignificant area is higher than anywhere else on the body. When coitus is initiated between a non-circumcised man and his partner, there is contact between two membranes that are moist and similar-- the glans and part of the shaft (once the penis is erect..) and the vagina. Less lubrication is necessary because the two surfaces are similarly moist and have natural lubrication.

 

The type of gliding action is different during intercourse: instead of the large thrusting movements, there are more short thrusts, because of the internal gliding mechanism at work. The skin on the shaft of the penis is not meant to be tight, it is meant to glide over itself, and is the source of the pleasurable sensations for the man...the short strokes mean that his body remains close to his partners' (lets assume a woman) and causes him to keep his pubic area closer to her, resulting in more clitoral stimulation....got the picture?

 

[[--I wasn't going to do so much really technical detail, but I have to say....there was no way in Hell I would deprive my son of his right to enjoy sex the way God/Higher Power intended...as sensitive and full of sensations--- as satisfying as possible for him and (someday) his wife.]]

 

Okay. back to lecture mode:

 

Now. A circumcised penis, by the time the surface of the glans heals, becomes what is called 'keratinized'....dried and not at all resembling the mucous membrane it once had. More keratin (thick skin) ---less sensitive. Therein lies the need for the longer thrusting action and bigger movements that take a man's body further away from the woman's body duriing coitus....requiring manual stimulation of the clitoris. (That is, once the lady learns about that...) Over time, as in over a lifetime of keratinization, the penis has less and less sensitivity, requiring more stimulation for erection to occur....hey, you mature gentlemen, sound familiar?

 

Okay, lecture over!

 

Hope this answers your questions, OhioCouple

 

I will paste a quote from a man who read and reviewed this book:

 

 

"This book exposes circumcision for what it is: Mutilation, October 30, 2000

Reviewer: A reader from *Not* in Seattle, Washington

This book has changed my life. Bigelow covers the cultural origins of circumcision, why the practice has taken such a foothold in the U.S., explains the physiological and sexual characteristics of the foreskin, and throughout, includes on the margins of most pages text from *many* personal letters he's received over the years from men who've experienced circumcision (as infants or adults) and who are or are not restoring their foreskins.

 

In reading this book, I have had instances of feeling total indignation, real emotional sadness (from reading the personal letters), and, happily, a real sense of relief that many other men in this world have likewise felt really badly about what was done to them as infants. This book made me realize I'm far from alone. I asked my wife to read portions of this book and she shared my feelings. Much of the American medical community is perpetuating a great fraud upon males in the U.S. by doing routine circumcision and Bigelow makes this point in no uncertain terms.

 

I'm restoring as a result of reading this book and can state in total honesty that after a mere one month, I have experienced a radical physical change. My wife completely agrees. The process isn't as easy as sitting in front of the TV night after night and just zoning out, but when you see what happens, you'll realize that Bigelow has spoken the truth about the fact that the male circumcised body is an unnatural and mutilated thing. Very sad. Bigelow has proven great personal commitment in showing that things are not right with routine male circumcision in the U.S. - and we pride ourselves on being so "modern" in this country! Not so on this account. Read this book, you'll be amazed at what you learn."

[Botcpl 15]

I was cut at birth, I didn't have any choice in the matter, bu at that age, your parents do all the thinking for you. Is it less sensitive? Compared to what? This is how it has always been, it works, it feels good; what's the problem.

 

When our son was born, we had to decide. I wanted the "surgery" done, my father-in-law was against, no one else felt deeply on way or another. I'm the Daddy, I won.

 

1) He should look like his father.

 

2) Friends coming back from Viet Nam had all sorts of stories about the uncut guys having infections. You never know if they are going to draft your son and where they will send him.

 

3) My father-in-law was Russian. When the Nazis came into his village, they identified the Jewish men by having them drop their pants. This didn't work on the Americans, because most were circumcised. I think we need to keep that alive.

 

Note: My son was born 21 years ago, when this discussion was really just starting. After we made our decision, I noticed the board in the maternity ward with who was scheduled for what; the gringos were having the surgery and the minorities were not. That's how it was then, I don't know now, I have no intention of going back until I am a grandfather (better not be soon!)

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

I gotta believe that if I were any more sensitive I'd probably ejaculate prematurely. I gotta believe that I would ejaculate prematurely anyhow cuz I haven't had sex in so long. I gotta believe I'm not subjective on this issue.

 

However. NightGoddess is a nurse and she quotes meaningful studies. Imagine if you had to wait to be 21 years old to be circumcised. No one would ever do it. Can the horrible pain of a child be reduced just because he cannot verbalize the memory due to lack of speech ability? I think this in itself is a valid point.

 

I think someday this will indeed be looked on as one of the most barbaric things we do to men. Except for the way they make us dress. It is deplorable. What the fuck is the tie for? When you watch important men on TV they all look the same. They wear a dark suit with a tie and the female broadcaster has a low cut top, with a skirt that begs you to wonder what is up just above eye level. They wear clothes that beg you to judge breast size. IF we wear something that suggests we have a penis we are accused of looking like a perv. They wear makeup....lipstick...eye shadow...rouje or whatever its called....paint their nails....guys shave and put on stuff that smells like leather.

 

Our underwear sucks too. And whats up with the shoes. IF you are successful you wear shiny shoes that better look an awful lot like your superior or competitor.

[Roxysbayou 20]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

Our underwear sucks too. And whats up with the shoes. IF you are successful you wear shiny shoes that better look an awful lot like your superior or competitor.

 

I have worn men's underwear before. Don't laugh but it was after giving birth and I needed something roomier because of the stitches. I found them to be much more comfortable than women's underwear. They are so soft. Except for the band, it's much to wide.

 

Anyway, I am pretty sure that I recall my OB saying that anesthesia was used during my sons circumcision. So I don't think that there was much pain. But I will say that for my oldest, who will soon be eleven. I swore that I could hear him screaming down the hall when his was done. I cried and cried. And when I saw his poor little tee tee afterward I felt sooo bad.

[Uneed_Love 15]

I just heard few years ago that Americans males are circumcised which was amazing to me when I learned it. Now after reading all the stuff on this thread I find it scary and I am glad I was born in France. Of course french people are not better, or smarter than Americans are but they don't practice circumcision (except for Muslims or Jews living here).

 

I am not pretending I am a better lover - surely not - because I am uncut but I am glad not to be because I can understand it can be a trauma for a baby and even later for a boy.

 

Except the fact he earns money from this, I even can't understand how a doctor can justify this practice. An uncut penis is easy to clean as any other part of the body and a virtual risk of infection or disease is not a reliable argue!

 

Now what is done is done and no one can change this. There is no reason to feel guilty if You have "follow the rules" for your children but for the future generations the future parents can say "NO" because there is no valid reason to perpetrate the same trauma for your babies in the future.

 

I am always surprised when I hear someone says that "if every body is jumping from a bridge in the river he would follow them"... because be different is a sign of character. Being able to stand up for your ideas even if you are the only one is a good reason to say "NO" just because others follow the collective way how to think, the collective way how to dress, the collective way how to eat, the collective believing, the collective feelings. Being different is a right for every one and even a necessity sometimes to feel Yourself but if you are a follower then why complain about it...

 

If you are a follower you are losing the right to complain IMHO. If You don't like the way males are dressed then be inventive and dress differently as You like and not as others would like you do it to please them. You will be regarded as an original (or a kook may be) but if you feel happy like this after all who matters.

 

"No guts no glory!" That's what is written on some US planes I have being admiring yesterday at a great aviation show... The saying is straight but all is said here : No guts no glory! No rights to complain for the followers. Be yourself and just say NO even if every body all around say Yes. Stand up for your ideas but don't act as a follower just because every one is doing it : DON'T CUT YOUR CHILDREN JUST BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS DID IT BEFORE YOU.

 

Take Care.

[NightGoddess 16]

Bon soir, Jean-Claude!

You brought up a very interesting line of thought here. If we follow what others have done without asking why, we may regret the consequences....complete absence of brains!!

 

It seems that parenting is like this for sure. One plans for children, spends time studying and reading (child development for me!) and trying to anticipate how to be the best parent ever.

 

Then the baby comes (!) And we are suddenly en-face with a brand new soul who is so fragile, so 'clean' of cultural conditioning, that we find ourselves responding with the Heart instead of the Brain

 

--So we learn, hopefully, to balance the 2: to consider the whys and wherefores and -- very important -- consider who this little being is. Some needs are universal, like food, clothing, and so on...but beyond this we sense that our children need to be recognized and approached as the individuals they are. Not an easy task, as all children are unique! My son, who was content to nurse continually (and finally weaned at age 4) was different from his sister, who slept through the night from day one!

 

Of course, the differences become more varied and complex as they grow. That's the challenge, isn't it? To 'read' our kids and use our inner knowing to decide the best course of action for them.

 

"Being able to stand up for your ideas even if you are the only one is a good reason to say "NO" " Jean-Claude

 

When I saw that circumcision, my gut, and mind and heart knew that what was being done was wrong. That was enough 'reason' for me! Why do you suppose we stop listening to that inner wisdom?

 

That's why it is harder to raise individuals who know the reasoning of their own hearts and minds. Followers may succeed in a factory; but individuals are the ones who can solve problems! We need plenty of those, especially now!

 

A bientot, mon ami!

NightGoddess

[Chris&Amelia 253]

Originally posted by NightGoddess

"Some people are making it sound like getting circumcised is the end of the world. "I was circumcised as a child! Woah be me!" "

---Chris&Amelia

--Um, If I said anything that offended w/regards to posting information about the effects of circumcision on coitus, I apologize.

 

This really wasn't directed at you, NightGoddess. I have been fairly silent on this topic, watching the general ebb and flow of the discussion. But a couple of people have been really blowing it out of performance. For example: some have compared male circumcision to female circumcision. While many do not agree with male circumcision, the comparison is useless hyperbole.

 

As you can imagine, I know plenty of other men, both circumcised and not circumcised (as do the most of us, I'm willing to bet). Speaking from personal experience, I'm just as sexually capable and able to enjoy the act of sex then my un-circumcised counterparts. The same standard can not be used for the victims (and that is the correct word) of female circumcision.

 

"Those of us who have been circumcised are in any way not disadvantaged or inferior to un-circumcised men." --Chris&Amelia

---However, there is a difference.

 

There's no debate about this. Viva La Difference!

 

Perhaps the issue has moved from Cut vs. Uncut...to the rights of children. That is an emotionally charged issue, for sure.

 

Yes, it is. I had no idea that when I started this thread (Back in November!) that it would create such a response!

 

"There seems to be a surprising amount of self-loathing going on in this thread. Step back, relax, and chill out. Barring that, seek professional help." --Chris&Amelia

---Now it's my turn to ask for some clarification....is it the topic as stated, Cut vs Uncut that you are addressing w/this statement, or is it the related question --- Now that we know what circumcision does, should we tell our Healthcare Providers to stop doing this?

 

Again, this really wasn't directed towards you, but towards some other contributors in this thread (Bob123, I'm looking at you). I don't begrudge Bob the chance to speak his mind.... after all, I created this thread in the first place for that very purpose. But some people here seem to have some deep-seated self-esteem and confidence issues here which are manifesting as the anger over (among other things) their circumcision as a child. Again, I'm thinking of Bob123's "infant trauma" over remembering when he was circumcised. Looking back at the statement appears pretty silly.

 

Note to Bob123: Please don't take these as personal attacks, as that is not their purpose. They are simply observations.

[Uneed_Love 15]

Originally posted by NightGoddess

Why do you suppose we stop listening to that inner wisdom?

At the last moment before to press the send button an incident occured to prevent me to post my message BUT as I am patient I start it again... just hope that I shall be able to find the proper words I was using first

 

Listening our "inner voice", follow our intuition, be the Master of our lives is one of the present difficulty of our time. Of course tons of books had been written on the subject, trainings are done with mass "motivators", but all this - instead of beeing a good help - can become a trap for our inquiry mind which is conditioned to filter the informations. The mind then is catched in a dedale of informations to select and is then unable to rest in peace.

 

Since the very first days of our lives we are teached and trained to act as thinking creatures and to use our brains BUT this is also the door opened to allow manipulations... Mass media are manipulating us, advertisers are manipulating us, politicians are manipulating us, family and school are manipulating us. So in such conditions and such conditionings it's very hard to be able to follow our own intuition and follow our own path. We are followers of followers.

 

The next step is to learn to set our mind free from all those conditionings. It can take few years or several lives to be able to do so. In the Bible it is said that JC - my Holy homonym - was standing for a part of his life in the desert. Does that mean that JC stay in the middle of a vast sunny area of sand for this time ? Of course not it's a parable which meaning could be the following... If you want to be able to listen your intuition you must keep your brain silent (Silence = desert and the sun = reason).

 

Every single second our brain is assaulted by ideas coming from what we see, what we hear, what we think, what we remember, from our desires, our fears, our past and present experiences. The interesting parts are the hidden parts of the iceberg of our brain. We all use only a very small part of this brain (even the genius)... gradually we know a bit more on how a brain is working BUT the main part remains a "desert" - an unknown area.

 

Being able to keep our brain silent is the most difficult thing to do. Humanity has been able to reach the moon, to investigate the deepest abysses in the Oceans but we are still unable to go in the deepest inner side of ourselves.

 

Some of our ideas are coming from past incarnations - if you believe in reincarnation this make a sense but if you don't You will regard this as a "crap" - This knowledge can help us to understand who we are actually and why we react in some situations as we do. The fact our occidental mentalities are not convincted that reincarnation is a reality can be a reason why we don't perceive clearly the inner voice (but not only)... Our brain is filtering informations. Some are accepted as the "norm" while others are "rejected or ignored".

 

Besides, boys are teached that intuition is more specifically feminine and reason for boys. All the same old "clichés" - boys are tough, boys don't cry, boys don't play with dolls but guns, while on the opposite little Girls are teached to become perfect housekeepers and change the diapers of their dolls. All this make us suit in a mould (mold for US).

 

And last but least of the difficulties to overcome is our invading technology. Why use "mind transmitions" if we can reach people on their mobiles... why use the "magnetism" of our hands to cure a headache if we can take a pill for this. Why listen our intuition while we have computers, CD, DVD to learn what we want to know.

 

Short radio waves, mobile waves, microwaves oven, etc... are polluting our spiritual environment and could - I say could - be a reason why it becomes harder to receive "informations" from what I am calling the "collective knowledge". This "collective knowledge" is what some buddhists are callind the "Akasha" which is the past, present and future knowledge of Humanity.

 

I personally do believe that artists are more sensitive than some others and that Leonardo Da Vinci was a very sensitive person who probably was able to "read in this collective knowledge" what future could become and had translated this with the knowledge of his time (with the drawings of the helicopter, the avion or the tank he designed).

 

I hope not to be tooooo much boring with this post which is out of the subject of "cut or uncut" but a reply to your question.

 

Take Care my Friend.

 

Hugs and Kisses

 

JC

[Bob123 15]

Quote

Again, this really wasn't directed towards you, but towards some other contributors in this thread (Bob123, I'm looking at you). I don't begrudge Bob the chance to speak his mind.... after all, I created this thread in the first place for that very purpose. But some people here seem to have some deep-seated self-esteem and confidence issues here which are manifesting as the anger over (among other things) their circumcision as a child. Again, I'm thinking of Bob123's "infant trauma" over remembering when he was circumcised. Looking back at the statement appears pretty silly.

 

I want you to quote where I said that. There are so many people twisting my words and making stuff up because of their hate for me. I want you to quote where I said this.

 

Also are you saying that what happens to a baby has no effect on the person when they grow into an adult?

[M&B 21]

I have two sons, both circumsized. I was, as well, at birth.

 

When I think of the pain, no matter how fleeting, that was inflicted on them, I wince. I do not remember being cut, myself. Then again, I barely remember the invention of the wheel, shortly after my fifth birthday!

 

I remember having a discussion with my first wife, my sons' mother. She is a great lady. She is someone I respect to this day. However, I do still have the pains of a memory of the days when I agreed to her insistance to have the procedures done. She said that it looks so much better and that women prefer it.

 

Please, I do know that this is not what all women think. It was what I was told at the time. Since raising children tends to be taken over by the mother, I took my opinion and put it into my back pocket. Still, I think, my poor sons had to suffer this for "what women want?" That was her opinion- not mine.

 

In discussing this issue with my current and last wife, her opinion runs along similar lines.... cut just looks better. We agreed before marrying that we were not having children. Good thing.

 

But, having heard this from a second woman, I began to wonder. Who's dick is it anyway?

 

If there sounds to be a bit of bitterness in my reply, it is more of sadness. I did this to my sons. And I am sorry for it.

[M&B 21]

I never thought much about being sensitive to anyone, male or female, about things that I say or write.

 

My Mom told me, when I was young, listen to what you say before others hear it. I don't always keep those words in mind when I speak. However, at twice your age, Bob, I can honestly say I am trying.

[ionsawmill 86]

Originally posted by Botcpl

1) He should look like his father.

 

Why?

 

2) Friends comming back from Viet Nam had all sorts of stories about the uncut guys having infections. You never know if they are going to draft your son and where they will send him.

 

You also can't say for sure that there will be another draft. Even if there is, the same thing will happen that happened in Veitnam. The poor and minorities (uncircumcised) will be the first and greatest number to go. Besides, battlefield hygeine has changed a lot since Vietnam. Our military learned countless lessons there.

 

3) My father-in-law was Russian. When the Nazis came into his villiage, they identified the Jewish men by having them drop their pants. This didn't work on the Americans, because most were circumcised. I think we need to keep that alive.

 

So you are saying we should continue a barbaric and unnecessary medical procedure because it makes us a homogenous culture? Someone can just as easily come along and start killing all the circumcised guys. We never know what future homicidal dictator will have swimming around in his diseased brain.

 

After we made our decision, I noticed the board in the maturnity ward with who was schedualed for what; the gringos were having the surgery and the minorities were not.

 

Some of the lingering "reasons" for circumcision result from that very discrepancy. Minorities have an overall lower standard of healthcare. Because of this, it appears on paper that circumcision is linked to health problems. It's a case of poor logic.

[NightGoddess 16]

M&B;

I'm relieved to notice you don't take this thread as an attack on anyone who has been circumcised, nor is it meant to instill guilt. What's great about your post is the fact that you can think beyond your personal experience, your sons' experiences, and consider the big picture....how can any of us help make a difference?

--Honestly, as long as parents are willing to just look at the data and make an informed choice....I see that as progress.

 

--It is also very clear that many parents were not well informed about the operation before they gave consent. THAT'S where the whole conflict about--- and interest in long term effects/ and reasons given for the procedure--- began to be examined.

 

I hope everyone who has a child, sister, brother, or any relative of childbearing age -- consider a low-key dialogue about circumcision.

 

It sounds like a lot of parents on this forum are looking back and wondering 'gee....if someone had given me more information, I might have thought more carefully about this decision.'

 

Like you said, M&B --- 'just whose dick is it anyway?'

 

Thanks for the reply. Well said

 

And ionsawmill....you bring up some salient points!

[NightGoddess 16]

Folks, I was just reviewing the thread from Page 1 to the current spot, and ran across something that concerns me:

 

Quote

"--if you don't stretch that foreskin frequently by pulling it back-alot-it constricts and shrinks to the point where you CANT pull it back. And how clean do you think it is after that??? I've seen too many uncircumsized babies with foreskin so tight they couldn't tolerate it being pulled back AT ALL. A problem that was only to get more exaggerated with time."

 

I want to point out that this recommendation, of forcing the forekin back in intact infant boys and children is INCORRECT!!! Doing so will cause HUGE PROBLEMS!!!!

 

The foreskin and the glans (head) of the penis are FUSED TOGETHER in infants and children.

 

Over time, as the boy grows and develops further, the two surfaces will separate-- however-- it is HARMFUL to retract the foreskin!!

 

Many healthcare providers (among them-- doctors and nurses --) will try to scare parents with a forced retraction and say,"See? This is abnormal. Your son's foreskin is too tight, he needs a circumcision!"

 

it happened to my son, and I had to tell the docs and nurses to keep their hands off his dick.

 

While doing a checkup, they don't need to mess with it at all.

 

I literally had to remove the nurses' hand from my son's penis and say, please leave his penis alone. She warned me he would 'develop a phimosis' (=abnormally narrow urethra) and I said, just leave it alone. Of course he didn't develop any problems: I learned years later, some boys will get adhesions (scarring) if a forced retraction is done...and phimosis is a common result! --not caused by the foreskin, but because some dummy messed with it in ignorance(!)

 

You can obtain info about 'care of the intact penis' via the http://www.nocirc.org/ website

 

--Tell anyone to keep their hands off your kids' penis...by the time he's 12 or 15 years old, it will have separated all on it's own; he can be told to 'just push the skin back and rinse underneath'...never forcing, never pushing on anything...

 

I was amazed to read blacklightphantasy mention the gentleman with 'foreskin problems':

 

Clearly he had lived to an advanced age without any difficulty...I would wonder if the nurse who attempted to 'bathe' him didn't know how to manage the man's penis and kept the foreskin retracted for too long. That's when the tourniquet effect happens.

 

Let's make sure anything we post as 'fact' is indeed so.

 

Intact penises are just as clean as circumcised penises, as long as the owner is clean in his personal hygiene.

 

[[[and as far as washing after using the toilet, I wish we had bidets as is the practice in Europe. They are great for men and women alike ]]

[M&B 21]

thank you for your kind words.

 

I would like to clarify that my thoughts and feelings about the circumcision of my sons run more from the point of view of a father that conspired to inflict pain on my poor, innocent newborns than from an influence of raw, cold data. However, that being said, I know now that if we had read and understood back then the information that you refer to, I would like to think that history would be different.

 

What you said about informed consent is so very important. At the age of five, my oldest son was diagnosed with severe ambliopia. His eyes were wild! The referal surgeon very carefully explained what it all meant, how it would affect him as he grew and how his life would be affected. He then explained the procedure. It was a bit too much detail for his mother. However, he gaves us weeks to decide. We agreed that it was necessary.

 

The surgery was done. It was a horrible trauma for our son. He suffered so. He cried every night before falling off to sleep. So did we. It was pure hell for us. My then wife became quite ill. I was nearly so, myself. After a week or so with bandages completely hiding his eyes, the day came for the doctor to remove the bandages. His eyes were a brilliant red. His sensitivity to light made him cry.

 

A month or two later, he was catching balls that he never could have before. His eyes pointed at the same object. He wore classes for a couple of years to help train his brain to adjust to the new situation. He has the complete use of both eyes.

 

The reason for going into this whole painful memory is not to bore anyone. It is, instead, a plea to parents to do their homework.

[NightGoddess 16]

M&B,

Bravo!

Now that's a point well made;

the physician carefully explained the situation, answered your questions, and gave you time to process and think.

 

When it comes to any procedure/intervention of any kind, we are our children's 'court of last resort'. Just as our children trust us and expect us to protect them...it is part of our job to look at the information, sift through the data, and weigh the potential outcome before making a decision.

 

That is what constitutes 'informed consent'.

 

In New Mexico, the entire Neonatal nursing staff protested the hospital's cavalier treatment of parents when it was evident nobody was getting the information required to make an informed decision about an elective procedure.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience so eloquently.

 

Surgery for the correction of amblyopia is not pleasant, requires a general anesthetic, and takes some time before the results are evident. Having assisted on a fair number of these, I can attest to the complexity of the procedure. It's no walk in the park.

 

Congratulations on successfully coping with a difficult situation. I am delighted (and not surprised) to hear your son had a great outcome.

[ionsawmill 86]

Originally posted by NightGoddess

She warned me he would 'develop a phimosis' (=abnormally narrow urethra) and I said, just leave it alone. Of course he didn't develop any problems:

 

I was watching the Sex Chat with Sue on Oxygen, and she was talking to a young man who was 24 and had never retracted his foreskin. She told him this was no reason to panic. She simply gave him instructions on how to soak his penis (sitz bath) in warm water and slowly (over a period of days/weeks) retract the foreskin until he could get it over his glans.

[naughtyandnice 15]

Hi,

 

The issues of having this done at birth aside,

 

This is something that disturbs me in the swinging community.

Speaking from experience only here, but we have found that most women prefer or I guess I should say demand circumsized men.

 

We were at an "off-premise" swingers club in Davenport, FL before it closed and a group of swingers were sitting around the pool and one woman made the statement that she would never be with an uncut guy.

She stated that she was with one once and it looked nasty and that it was just plain nasty to not be cut. Several of the other ladies agreed. Of course, I am not cut and although I realize it could be a preference of choice, I still find it insulting. We were invited to have some fun with that same group at a latter date and I declined politely and told them I would not fit well in their group due to being uncut.

 

 

We have found this over and over again when the topic is brought up. We have read profiles that say no uncuts or circumsized men only.

 

My reason for feeling insulted is that it isn't just a preference to most to have a cut man. It is a requirement. I wonder what kind of responses we would get to an ad if we posted in our profile that we only wanted women that had tight pussies or huge clits or huge lipps down there. We have wrote back and forth with couples interested in meeting us, liked our profiles and pics, but when I told them that I was uncut, they would respond with, "THanks for your honesty, but we are not interested."

 

There is a difference in preference and exclusivity. Preference lends itself to acceptance with a higher aprreciation for a particular thing. When you say, "NO UNCUTS." your not stating a preference but a demand. The same goes when someone makes a demand for ,"8 inches or more only!" It no longer is a preference but a superficial damand that questions the individual's or couple's personality(ies) in our eyes.

 

We all have preferences and we all have acceptances. When we look for couples, we look for couples that we feel will find us attractive and that we feel are similar in looks as ourselves. We don't make physical appearance demands in our profile except that we must find them attractive.

 

My wife would love to be with a well hung man just to see what it is like. Although she can barely take what I have, pornography in general and just the curiosity itself, has drawn her to this. But she doesn't mind if a guy is cut or uncut, small or huge. The appearance of the penis is a non-issue with her. She doesn't mind if he cums in five minutes or 30 minutes. She doesn't even mind if he has performance issues at one time or another. Because, if your friends with these people, like them, are attracted to them physically, then none of that matters in the long run. It will all work out eventually. My wife is multi-orgasmic and not dependant on someone else or a particular looking genitalia to make her cum. She can also be fisted, which is a whole other topic. So the man's size is very irrelevant. lol

 

Whether others want to admit it or not, us guys, (at least me), that aren't cut or hung like a horse, sometimes feel inadequate or undesireable to those that request this and even to those couples whose husband is cut and hung like a horse. When you feel this way, perforamance issues can arise.

 

An idividual's or couple's superficiality and demands are what is a turn off to some swinging situations for us. Most people feel awkward enough at times in swinging without all the superficial bs.

 

We understand the differences in preferences and attractions, but in our opinion, if a little piece of skin can turn you off enough not to enjoy someone who you would have otherwise loved to have played with, then you have issues that need to be delt with.

If folks can only get off on a huge cut cock that cums gallons and goes all night long, maybe they should consider playing with horses and by pass swinging all together.

 

As far as cleanliness goes, uncut or not, if you don't clean it, it is dirty. It isn't any harder to clean than any other genitalia. My wife has even said that I am cleaner than others in her opinion.

 

Our only demands with swingining are the people have to be SUPER CLEAN, attractive to us physically, and attractive to us personality wise, oh and SANE. Unfortunately most don't stop with these demands. They carry it to breast size, cock size, cut or uncut, social status, your ability to travel on vactions and getaways, your energizer bunny sexual performances, who can out do who and who is better at what and verious other superficial bs ideals. Common interests is just a preference and we usually can find something that all involved like no matter they are.

 

Because of this "fit in" mindset that alot of folks seem to have in swining, we may have to change our profile to fit us. For instance, uncuts are welcome, cuts maybe not. See how ignorant and superficial that sounds but it just may become reality to fit in to our comfort zone.

 

We have heard overweight couples call thin couples "fake barie and kens" when they don't even know them and have heard thin people say overweight people are nasty and disgusting. Seems alot are superficial and fake no matter where they fit in. So what do you do when you don't fit into any cuz you think all this superfical bs is exactly that. I am stepping off my soap box now to the sound of chirping crickets.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

In the lifestyle or in most aspects of any part of life, attractiveness is the most important thing isn't it.

 

You can look like Larry Flynt and get sex, but the lifestyle is about attractiveness.

[wrnakedru 38]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN In the lifestyle or in most aspects of any part of life, attractiveness is the most important thing isn't it.You can look like Larry Flynt and get sex, but the lifestyle is about attractiveness.

 

"One man's trash is another man's treasure."

 

While hubby and I have some "personal preferences", that may at times extend into exclusivity;[i.e. I personally just have an aversion to "wooly bear" gentleman, but an inordinate fondness of those with receding (or non-existant) hairlines], attractiveness TO US is what matters.

 

These "attractive" attributes include an active intelligent sense of humor, a kindness toward each other and others, an open attitude of acceptance of other's "right to be" as equal to their own even when they are at variance of choices, a zest for life, a willingness to expand their horizons be it through trying a never before attended local attraction or listening to those who enjoy a different sort of pleasure explain why it brings pleasure to them, ability to see the positive aspects of most anything, an outgoing personality that expresses a joy of life, a firm belief with actions to support it - that friendship matters most of all.

 

We find all that VERY attractive. So guess maybe you're right - it's all about attractiveness.

[naughtyandnice 15]

We agree that it is all about attractiveness in all parts of life.

 

I personally find if a woman has a large clit and long pussy lips and big puffies (not sure what the medical term for this is to tell you what I am talking about), then I get really sexually aroused.

 

Women with huge clits are usually multiorgasmic, usually easy to bring to orgasm, and are usually easily excitable sexually. I find it very visually stimulating as well.

 

So you can deduce that i am attracted to women with those types of genitalia. But, if she looks like jaba the hut, I am not going to be interested no matter what her genitalia looks like.

I also would not kick a woman out of my bed that I found attractive otherwise because she had a small clit, small lips, and no puffies. Nor would I refuse to meet her because of it. Nor would I not see her again because her pussies wasn't as tight as I like. Nor because she cannot be fisted, would I tell her that I am not interested.

 

The rarity of big clit women is about as rare as a man with a 9+ inch dick. To find a woman with a big clit, long-n-thick lips, and big puffies, is even more difficult or almost impossible. Add to it that she must be attractive to us, our chances of wining the lottery seem better.

 

So for a woman to say she finds an uncut man unappealing to the point of disgust and would refuse to play with him because of it, appalls me. To hear some of the comments from some on here about the nastiness of it, compared to a woman's genitalia, is laughable. It is true that women get tons more infections than men in their genital area. A woman's vagina is a breeding ground for bacteria. Yeast infections are so common that they have over the counter medication for them. Women bleed from there vaginas once a month and this in itself wouldn't be a very unconvincing poster for a man to perform oral sex on a woman.

 

What would this image bring to mind:

 

Your driving down dale mabry and come to the interesecton of dale mabry and highway 60 (roads in Tampa, fl). You look up to the billboard there, where the milk add used to be, and you see this...

 

A woman lying down on a dinner table with her leg spread, and a man sitting in a chair between her legs. He is turned facing you with a big smile on his face and a clump of white matter above his top lip. The caption atops the billboard reads--- "YEAST, IT'S IN THERE! 10 out of 10 gynecologists concur!"

 

I would think this might change alot of men's opinions about performing oral sex on a woman. There are many different types of bacteria in a woman's vagina at all times. If any of these get out of balance, such as yeast or gardenerella, an infection can occur and be passed on through sexual contact. So, I personally am again insulted by some of the condescending remarks made by folks as far as uncuts and personal hygiene goes. Nurses, no less, who should know about vaginal cleanliness. But, since she is a woman, and doesn't want to put women in a bad light, leaves out that bit of information and goes on to proclaim herself to have the cleanest vagina that never dribbles. Pure HOGWASH.

 

Fact is most all women have a discharge. Don't believe me? Look around online at women's forums. It is a normal everyday thing.

How many penises discharge anything other than pee and cum on a daily basis? Lots of women wear panty liners all the time because of this. So I prefer not to hear such drival about uncuts being unclean. It is just someone trying to make up a generalization to attempt to conceal their prejudice behind what they feel will be perceived as accurate, based upon their statement of their occupational choice. Kinda like a doc who says your crazy cuz he has no clue what is wrong with you. Pure arrogance.

 

You may think this is only an issue with us because I am uncut. Not completely accurate, although it is part of it. People can say what they want, request what they want, and do what they want. It is their ads and their lives and we wouldn't want it any other way. All we have to do is look for people that accept us how we are and bypass the ones that do not. We never write those that post such profiles that we feel ae full of racism, prejudice, and superficial nonsense. But, it doesn't mean I have to like it. We just accept that people can be jerks and move on. But forums give you a chance to voice your opinions by asking such questions and make it hard to pass on commenting.

 

Heck, even Ron Jeremy gets laid by some really hot looking chicks on a regular basis. Now how many think ole Ronny boy gets laid because of his chiseled body and rare model like looks? Sure someone will find him attractive but we imagine most fuck him because of his massive cock. Again the superficiality of folks is a major turn off.

 

The only thing that even looks a little positive for us average hung and uncut guys is that, guess what, there are more of us in the world as a whole. Thus the term average. That means most women accept average and ucut in general. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case in swinging. Especially in the good ole US of A.

 

We have other annoying amusements with personal ads besides this, such as ugly guys thinking only hot looking women are acceptable just because his wife is a hottie and vice versa. Double standards suck as well. Also, people who try to seem moral by saying," We don't respond to those that post pics of their genitals." Then, in the same breath say, "only well hung men need respond." People, what is moral about swinging anyway? Then you have the ones that proclaim, "no men that ever has had performance issue need to apply." Folks how ridiculous is this statement. Why do you think Viagra is so popular. Most men have had a situation at one time or another. Big deal. Maybe next time they won't have that happen. And maybe, just maybe, do you think it might because the woman couldn't arouse him good enough? Is that such a shock? Some women just can't give head or hand jobs worth a damn. But you never here it that way. Just here in gossip that the man couldn't even get it up. Like there was something wrong with him.

 

Then again you could say that we are prejudice against those that are prejudice. Where does it all end.

 

We still think the issue of cut or uncut shouldn't even be an issue regardless. Quick question though ladies. How would you feel if someone you were writing with an intent to meet, all of a sudden stated during a conversation you were having planning your meeting, "if you don't have a big clit, we aren't interested!" All of this after them telling you that you were exactly what they were looking for otherwise. Or how would you feel if in an ad you read stated, "only big clit women need to respond!" Or mulitorgasmic women only.

 

It no longer is about you anymore but about your genitalia and what you can do for them. Maybe this might change some perspectives a bit. Too may expectations are placed on men when it comes to swinging in our honest opinion. MY wife agrees whole-heartedly. Weight issues seem to be the only thing that plagues women in swinging. But this is just from our experiences and nothing more. We are sure other women can tell us some stories of what they have found to be expected of them as well.

 

As you can tell, I don't get out much and am a git long winded. Sorry again for the tirade. Will try to be briefer in my future posts. My wife says I am too long winded in our profiles as well and i have had to edit them several times to make them have all the info we like plus short enough not to bore people to death.

 

Time for your resurrections yet?

[ionsawmill 86]

Quote

Originally posted by naughtyandnice

Women bleed from their vaginas once a month

 

And yet, THEY LIVE!

 

Sorry. I had to do that.

 

 

Quote

How many penises discharge anything other than pee and cum on a daily basis?

 

Uh, the uncut ones? The inside of the foreskin and the glans produce a substance called smegma. It's the same substance produced by glands in the labia minora. Left too long, it can develop yeast and other bacterial infections. It is the source of the dreaded epithet "dick cheese". Simply put, men who are uncircumcised do have to contend with smegma, which is a discharge.

[naughty A 23]

does anyone but me think that this thread is ridiculous...

 

I doubt that any MAN is going to sit here reading this and think... Hey... I better go out and get circumcised... I'll get more chicks...

 

if you have a DEFINITE preference I agree you should state it upfront... but the man it is attached to is much more important TO ME than the presence or lack of a foreskin... after all there are many guys out there trying to get their foreskin BACK...

 

foreskin recovery

 

don't cut

 

and no I didn't bother to read these links... I just know these and hundreds of others exist.

[Alura 2,773]

Originally posted by naughty A

does anyone but me think that this thread is ridiculous...

 

I doubt that any MAN is going to sit here reading this and think... Hey... I better go out and get circumcised... I'll get more chicks...

 

I think it's pretty ridiculous, Naughty A. I'm not going to get cut to get more chicks. Think of the ones you'd get... and then think of the others you might not get... I'll take the ones who make their decisions based on important criteria.

 

Speaking from experience, it takes several days of not having a bath to develop smegma. If an uncut man has "cheese dick" (What sort of person would come up with a term like that???) you can bet your sweet ass he's going to be reeking from other places. You should be well tipped off that he ain't real clean long before you find his cock.

 

There have been a few times in my life when I've not been able to take a bath for a week or more. Hunting elk in a wilderness in New Mexico, working cattle on a week-long round-up, and traveling overland to India all come to mind. I still found it possible to wash my penis once a day.

 

Where's NightGoddess when we need her?

 

Mr. Alura

[naughtyandnice 15]

ionsawmill,

 

I have been uncut and alive for 34 years and have never experienced as you put it, "dickcheese."

 

Not once that I can recall. Although I do tend to shower daily. Image someone doing such a thing. I know it must be shocking to some. lol

 

 

naughty A,

 

I agree it is ridiculous but it is a legit question. Believe it or not it does matter to a whole lot of people/women in the US anyway.

 

Check the ads on swappernet.com. plenty on there are cuts only.

 

Oh and just for shits and giggles, when I am erect you can't even tell that I am uncut. Still matters to folks.

 

It is an issue and one that probably should be addressed in questionnaires of swingers sites when your filling out you profile.

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a checkbox for it when you search for matches. Nor would a search with weight acceptance.

 

When you write the webmasters with such suggestions though, they blow it off.

 

Even swinglifestyle.com that this board promotes doesn't seem to be to concerned about what the users think that much.

 

If only I new how to write databases.

 

 

Back to the subject of uncuts though. We love German porn. Most men in them are uncut. GGG makes some great porn.

 

If American women were exposed to more European porn, maybe there wouldn't be such issues. But most porn here, obviously American men where the majority seem to be cut.

 

Did the medical profession consist mostly of Jewish doctors in the early days?

[windsor4fun2 130]

I can't see myself running out and getting cut at this stage of my life. Even if I may be appealing to more women. I may be wrong but I honestly can't see it making that much of a difference most of the time.

 

As far as the "cheese dick" issue, I doubt any discerning person would get that far with a man with that poor a personal hygiene.

[naughtyandnice 15]

On a better note,

 

We met a couple last weekend. The husband was cut.

 

We never discussed it beforehand and at the time it wasn't in our profile on swinglifestyle.com that I was uncut.

 

I was wondering a bit what would happen but when she started orally on me, she rolled my foreskin down over my dick and stuck her tongue in between the foreskin and the head and started rolling her tongue around and around. She just kept playing with it.

 

I was in total shock. My wife has never even done that.

 

I was asked by my wife and the guy why was I smiling so much, and I told them. Then the woman that was performing oral on me said her ex was uncut and she liked it.

 

I was totally flabbergasted. But realize some out there actually prefer it.

 

Where are more of you uncut loving ladies at .

[ionsawmill 86]

Originally posted by naughty A

does anyone but me think that this thread is ridiculous...

 

That also would be me.

 

Some men are cut. Most are happy with it, some are not.

 

Some men are uncut. Most are happy with it, some are not.

 

Women vary in their opinion of said men.

 

Doctors vary in their opinion of the procedure.

 

Nuf sed.

 

For the record, I am not, nor have I ever called anyone "dick cheese". I was simply relating the facts and the popular slang associated with those facts.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

NightGoddess is probably one of the nation's most informed people on this subject and she sure turned on a light for me.

 

Whether you are cut or uncut doesn't matter. It is the newborns that concern me. I'm happy being cut, but if I had a choice now, NO WAY. Now that is a 180 for me cuz I had both of my boys cut. I just hope the word gets round that its for the new generation to change this.

[shortiebabie03 15]

My hubby is uncut but we had our son cut.

 

I do have to say though, in the almost 5 yreas he and I have been together I have never smelled "dick cheese?" Although I have smelled some stinky dicks in my life but never from my uncut man.

[NightGoddess 16]

Okay, I'm back (and flattered to be missed, thanks Mr. Alura!)  Goodness! What a heated talk about circumcision!

 

I've been away, had a job interview and spent extra time enjoying hanging out at the beach swimming!

 

Naughty A: isn't it amazing that such passion gets spent on deciding if a man is sexually attractive based on the condition of his dick?

Yep, in that sense, it is truly a smack on the head (no pun intended!)

 

When you consider sexual attraction is based upon the ideas we have in our little minds.....it seems a moot point to even consider the 'desirability' of a cut or uncut penis. It's all about the MAN it's attached to! [as Naughty A said so well]

 

In my opinion, cleanliness is a completely different topic, not something related even REMOTELY with one's gender, genitalia, length of hair, or whatever. It has to do with the frequent application of soap and water!

 

Sheesh, do we need to start a poll asking how often folks bathe? And really, aside from the situations Mr. Alura mentioned -- BTW, I think you are quite a gentleman for making sure you keep Mr. Happy clean ---

 

Are there still people out there who bathe less than once a day? Maman taught us to bathe twice....especially on those special nights of married bliss, and even more frequently when menstruating (even if it's a quick shower..)

 

I am appalled to hear women allow themselves to be unclean while menstruating! Is this really common? Yikes!!

 

---Call me old-fashioned, but I didn't like my husband to even SEE evidence of pads, tampons, liners, whatever....guess that's how I was taught. It wasn't about shame, it was about courtesy and common sense. And no, during my marriage of 19 years, I didn't consider it appropriate to ask my hubby for oral during that time of the month. That was for focusing on my blowjob technique. I liked sending hubby to sleep with a nice satisfied smile on his face

 

What happened to the idea it is blessed to give....?

 

Oh I got so far off topic, sorry...naughtyandnice, I don't believe it was only Jewish doctors who performed circumcisions in the 'early days', as circumcision was thought to 'cure' masturbation!

 

--and your comment earlier,

Quote

"Nurses, no less, who should know about vaginal cleanliness. But, since she is a woman, and doesn't want to put women in a bad light, leaves out that bit of information and goes on to proclaim herself to have the cleanest vagina that never dribbles."

 

You lost me here: could you please explain what this is about? Did someone here claim to have the Cleanest Cunt in the Known Universe or something?

 

Who is the Nurse you refer to?

 

---any more questions?

[OhioCouple 40]

Recently my youngest and most spiciest gave birth to a healthy baby boy. Several months ago (after we learned that she was having a boy) , I sent her links that were given to me by another member of this board as I wanted them to make an 'informed' decision regarding circumcision, something that I did not have access to some 28 years ago. Due to the links, they did some further investigation of their own and through much discussion, decided that it did not matter that their son would look different than 'daddy' and they would explain to him later down the road, why they made the decision that they did. They came to the conclusion that the benefits of remaining intact, out weighed what they had been taught by society. They made an informed decision...something that I didn't have the opportunity to do.

 

The power of the web. Need I say more?

[NightGoddess 16]

I had my first w/an intact (uncircumcised) man a month ago. It was amazing.

 

The whole interaction is not fraught with tension over penetration. (which needs lubrication with a circumcised man)

 

With an intact man, the whole nature and 'feel' of the interaction is on a subtle continuum, with more mutuality about timing, and no emphasis on heavy thrusting and friction, as it's all glide, all succulent smoothness. Some women have said they sense no difference. I guess I happen to be one of those who notices!

 

---It IS like the difference between black and white TV and color w/ Dolby......and three glasses of wine! The approach towards union and orgasm is slower, more relaxed, and infinitely more tender and careful...oral sex is delightful and absolutely NOT 'smelly' 'unclean' 'unsightly' ---or any of the propagandistic bullshit we have heard from Western Medicine(!)

 

My lover mentioned needing to rinse his glans after intercourse before sleeping; he mentioned it would become a bit irritated if he allowed the secretions to remain in place...sort of like it was easy to have a bit of yeast or germ growth happen overnight if he didn't rinse with water.

 

Not a big deal, and makes sense, as the area is more tender. I think salivary enzymes probably could be a culprit as well.

 

The information I've read on websites about nerve endings and location of Meissner's corpuscles worked to my advantage(!) I had a good working knowledge of what might feel good to him for oral sex....which indeed it did. As the literature says, the frenulum is exquisitely sensitive.

 

I seem to have extreme sensitivity around the vaginal vestibule, which makes the points of penetration and exit the most arousing; interestingly, this is where my lover felt the most pleasure, so the synchronicity of action/reaction was really easy to achieve. Effortless.

Also, and (perhaps this is due to the LACK of excess skin stretching on erection for an intact man) --- the intact penis feels more erect, fuller, and firm as orgasm becomes imminent: something I never observed in circumcised men.

 

Control over ejaculation seems effortless in non-circumcised men, whilst it is clearly not the case with circumcised men unless all motion is stopped and a minute or two allowed to pass before resuming any activity.

 

I wonder if circumcised men and their significant other 'work' on sexual technique to achieve a mutually satisfying result. I certainly didn't think sex with my hubby of 20 years was lacking in any way, nor could I imagine what I was missing (due to lack of experience)

My ex had premature ejaculation for years and we worked on technique until a mutually satisfying result was achieved. I attributed the difficulty for me to orgasm quickly to my emotional inhibitions. Now, I really wonder if we unconsciously accept what we have, and adapt our moves accordingly.

 

That being said, I want to say that I'm sharing my observations, and do not intend to offend anyone who feels or has opposite experiences.

My intent is to share and also offer what I believe is a darn good reason to not circumcise boys. We cannot anticipate what another's sexual experience will become. If my husband had not been circumcised, would his pleasure have been greater? There is certainly no way to know.

[Chris&Amelia 253]

Control over ejaculation seems effortless in non-circumcised men, whilst it is clearly not the case with circumcised men unless all motion is stopped and a minute or two allowed to pass before resuming any activity.

 

Of course, this completely discredits the old "Circumcised men aren't as sensitive" theory that they anti-circumcision crowd likes to use, doesn't it?

[NightGoddess 16]

Jeez, I seem to have opened a Pandora's box!

 

My post was not intended to discredit, debunk, or dismiss w/anyone else's experience..or theories..hence:

"I want to say that I'm sharing my observations, and do not intend to offend anyone who feels or has opposite experiences."

and

"Control over ejaculation seems effortless in non-circumcised men.."

--- I would welcome input from the intact gentlemen. After all, who knows better than the owner?

[AsieCaline 16]

He is not circumsized, and I love to "undress" him...

[Uneed_Love 15]

Originally posted by NightGoddess

--- I would welcome input from the intact gentlemen. After all, who knows better than the owner?

Exactly BUT it is almost as difficult for the "uncut gentleman" I am to make any comparison whit a "cut gentleman" because each one is similar and different to his neighbour.

 

For a long time I was believing that as I can't ejaculate as "fast" as many (with the advantage - for the woman - that I keep my erection longuer than some others males) had something to do with the fact I am uncut but, of course I was wrong with this. So I assume it is difficult to make generalization in such circumstances.

 

JC who send his kisses to the Ladies

[ionsawmill 86]

Not to get away from the discussion, but has anyone ever heard the phrase "partial circumcision"? I'm circumcised, but I still have enough foreskin left to cover the glans if I pull it over (when flacid). Not that it will stay in place, but there's plenty of skin there. Also, when erect, I still have lots of room for movement i.e. the skin slides up and down the shaft without the tightness that I've heard can result from some more extreme circumcisions.

[NightGoddess 16]

Quote

Originally posted by ionsawmill

Not to get away from the discussion, but has anyone ever heard the phrase "partial circumcision"? I'm circumcised, but I still have enough foreskin left to cover the glans if I pull it over (when flaccid). Not that it will stay in place, but there's plenty of skin there. Also, when erect, I still have lots of room for movement i.e. the skin slides up and down the shaft without the tightness that I've heard can result from some more extreme circumcisions.

 

Yes, since the actual technique for the procedure varies widely, anything from a slight nick to the foreskin to the situation you describe....is possible. Lots depends upon the practitioner. Some docs use a device called the Gomco, which is a curved apparatus that clamps down on the foreskin once the glans and foreskin have been (eek!) torn apart. There are a number of techniques and devices that have been used. Most have in common the fact that the glans and foreskin are forcibly separated; remember, this is a unit that develops as one while the child is developing in utero. With the intact penis the 'separation' process occurs naturally and very gradually over a period of years. Ignorance of this fact causes many health caregivers to do a forced retraction years before the natural process is complete. [Are you men now crossing your legs in reflex to the very idea of what is described here?]

 

They will then point to the bleeding glans and tell the parents that the situation was 'abnormal' and circumcision is necessary as the foreskin was 'too tight'. Some will misdiagnose this as 'phimosis'. Again, rampant ignorance is the real culprit.

 

Occasionally you get a doc who is somewhat opposed to the idea of circumcision, or perhaps his training was such that a slight nick with a scalpel is all that is done to the very tip of the foreskin (the part that extends past the glans) w/no forced retraction performed. The doc hands the child back to the parents and tells them to leave the boys' penis alone. As far as everyone knows, the child has been circumsized. Boy grows up, penis is minimally traumatized, and for all intents and purposes, he's not been 'cut' in the conventional sense.

 

For detailed info about circumcision, you can check the http://www.NOCIRC.ORG website.

 

Hope this answers your question, ionsawmill. You could very well be among those whose physician did a minimal type of circumcision. Some men have extreme tightness of the penile skin when the organ is erect.

 

Feel free to PM me if you have additional questions, or would like additional leads to related websites.

[webbguy 27]

I am cut, and everyone really loves the big head I have! ? I love the feeling of my lady sucking the head, it is very sensitive, and she loves the feeling of my cockhead teasing her pussy lips, it drives her wild!

[NotsoNew 17]

Husband is, but have no preferance.