Let me hear your "I thought I was in love story"

[Tortured_Soul 15]

I have been with a few women in my life... I guess around here, who hasn't? I don't consider myself to be a swinger but I have swapped partners a few times (albeit 99% of the time it's the same couple). The thing I am in total love with this woman, she is 10 years older than me and she is beautiful, hell I'd go as far as saying she is perfect... in every sense of the word. The problem is this... we are both married with children...and she is my wife's best friend... oucha, I know.

 

Now, this is what I want from you guys, I want to hear about times that you felt like this. Was it always just fucking -or- were there times that you just felt like that one particular person might just be the one?

 

Help me get out of this haze I am in...

[Estaque 15]

I think you should go for it. True love is hard to find. You two should get divorces and be together, I just know it will work out for you. It happens every day in the swing-world.

[intuition897 2,179]

So, um...what does your wife think about all this?

 

EDIT>> And don't mind Estaque. I think he's been having a rough day, so he may come off as a little...brusque.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Estaque said:

I think you should go for it. True love is hard to find. You two should get divorces and be together, I just know it will work out for you. It happens every day in the swing-world.

 

You made me laff with that one... the funny thing is ... that's how I feel about the whole thing.

 

How does my wife feel about it? I don't know how to tell her I am in love with her best friend... it's kinda hard.

[singleagain 26]

dude...you'd better listen to intuition897 and get yourself in check. you're about to mess up a lot of people just to take care of your own self...

[Estaque 15]

You made me laff with that one... the funny thing is ... that's how I feel about the whole thing.

 

How does my wife feel about it? I don't know how to tell her I am in love with her best friend... it's kinda hard.

 

What do you care what your wife thinks? You're in love man, you gotta go for it! True love doesn't come around often. Your wife will get over it, and that hefty child support payment and alimony will get her through those lonely nights...

[intuition897 2,179]

I guess I just mean that in your posts, you've scarcely mentioned your wife, and extolled the virtues of this other woman. And outlined all the things that you want. I get the feeling that the only reason you are reluctant to mention it to your wife, or do the unthinkable and end a relationship if it has little to no hope of survival, is because of how it will affect you. You feel it will "disappoint" your wife and kids - maybe "hurt" them, even - but you have this low-lying reassurance, barely beneath the subconscious, that tells you "They're young. They'll get over it." What you might not realize is that the choices you will make will impact the course of their lives. Do not fool yourself; you're going to rip your wife's heart out when she finds out you are choosing yourself over her. She trusted you to not do this. And kids learn what they see. They learn not to trust. They learn to 'get while the gettin's good'. They learn to look out for #1, and the rest of humanity be damned.

 

I'm afraid you will not get a green light from this crowd to follow your penis to greener pastures. If it's true love - not infatuation, but true love that brings you peace, and makes you not fear growing old because you will grow old with this person - then you should respect your wife enough to be honest with her, and let her know that you cannot live a lie and remain in a relationship built on something that doesn't exist. if you do not love your wife, she needs to know. You are NOT doing her any favours by keeping her in the dark. Like it or not, she IS involved, and it IS her business.

[good times 991]

Dito what Intuition said. While it doesn't really have any bearing on the right or wrong thing to do here, I am curious. Does this other woman know about this, and is she ready to throw away her marriage for this too?

[Tortured_Soul 15]

good times said:

Dito what Intuition said. While it doesn't really have any bearing on the right or wrong thing to do here, I am curious. Does this other woman know about this, and is she ready to throw away her marriage for this too?

 

First off, I am not following my penis... I'll make that clear. The other woman DOES indeed know about the way I feel, and she has the same type of feelings towards me. I never planned for this happen ( swinging or falling for this woman ), it just happened. I can't say either one of us are ready to " throw away" our marriages at this point.... actually it hasn't even been discussed, not even remotely. I never said I was going to ditch my wife for this woman... all I wanted to know was if anyone had similar experiences, that's it. You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

[prettylady 221]

Tortured_Soul said:

First off, I am not following my penis... I'll make that clear. The other woman DOES indeed know about the way I feel, and she has the same type of feelings towards me. I never planned for this happen ( swinging or falling for this woman ), it just happened. I can't say either one of us are ready to " throw away" our marriages at this point.... actually it hasn't even been discussed, not even remotely. I never said I was going to ditch my wife for this woman... all I wanted to know was if anyone had similar experiences, that's it. You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

 

I am sorry, if you are feeling like you have to take the defensive. I can say that, Yes I was in your spot before, minus the swinging part. I left my husband because the relationship just wasn't any good for me.He was an ass. But, I did "fall in love" or so I thought, with another man. It was a hard time for my ex and I. Looking back now I realize that leaving my husband and going into a relationship with this other guy was a huge mistake. I wasn't ready for such a change.

 

I am thankful now to have Dog, my current boyfriend. He is wonderful to me and I feel 100% confident that he will be the man I grow old with.

I agree with the idea that if you are entertaining the thoughts of another women then there are issues that need to be looked at in your marriage.

 

You are in a tough spot right now with you feelings, be careful with them and the feelings of the others around you.

 

Please understand that MOST of the people here are really concerned about your welfare. Try not to take offense when you hear something you don't want to hear. think about it for awhile before reacting maybe it makes sense to you, maybe not.

 

But please don't think that a child or spousal support check with keep your wife warm at night when she is hurting over your decision, should it be to pursue a relationship with her girlfriend.

 

My ex made the assumption that money could take his place at night while he was out with his girlfriend. It really doesn't.

 

Good luck with your issue, I hope in the end it all turns out alright for everyone involved.

 

PS. If you do decide to become involved with this other women, you should end your current marriage first. Not only for your wife's feelings but for yours and your future love. The two of you will suffer as well while in an affair. You wont be able to be together when you want to be, or hold hands in public, you will always be looking over your shoulder for people who could "out" you.

 

So basically, its not just the other husband and wife that will get hurt. You and this other women will suffer as well.

 

I have experienced what it is like to not be able to be with the one you love. It sucks worse then being in a marriage that is bad for you. Heart ache is the worst kind of ache there is.

 

I am not a supporter of extramarital affairs, but I know what it is like to fall in love with someone you can't have. I hate to say it but Equate is right to a point, you can't control who you fall in love with and it is hard to stay away. Sometimes too hard.

 

[good times 991]

Tortured_Soul said:

First off, I am not following my penis... I'll make that clear. The other woman DOES indeed know about the way I feel, and she has the same type of feelings towards me. I never planned for this happen ( swinging or falling for this woman ), it just happened. I can't say either one of us are ready to " throw away" our marriages at this point.... actually it hasn't even been discussed, not even remotely. I never said I was going to ditch my wife for this woman...

 

I didn't mean to imply that you were following your penis even though in my attempt at a brief post it may have came off that way. I simply didn't get the complete picture from your original post and wanted clarification. thanks for clearing it up.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

all I wanted to know was if anyone had similar experiences, that's it. You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

 

I can't really give you any good advice beyond what has been said so far because I, in fact, have never fallen in love with a swing partner. But I am sure it has happened occasionally as we have seen posts to that effect here previously.

[intuition897 2,179]

You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

 

Actually, yes I can. I have liked and respected our play-friends, and thoroughly enjoyed their company. But love? Love that compares to what I feel for Mr. intuition? Not a chance. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

 

And sorry about the following-your-penis quip. If it were true, then I meant it, of course. But if it doesn't apply to your situation, please accept my apology.

[TNT 1,155]

Tortured_Soul said:

You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

 

Well, actually I can ...I've been in love with the same man for well over 25 years...I have had sex with many men but I have never fell for any of them.

 

We have swing partners that we are very fond of and would miss them terribly should they no longer be in our lives but....we are not in love with them beyond the love you have for a dear friend.

 

I don't have much advice for you other than maybe some distance between you and this other woman...take the time to really, really, really think about your feelings for her and your wife...it could be just a case of the grass being greener or ...it could be the real thing.

 

Either way, I think you need to discuss this with your wife...she should have been the first one you did this with instead of the other woman.

 

Teresa

[Spoomonkey 420]

Tortured_Soul said:

You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

 

Add me to the list of "yes I can."

[CnL 15]

Look at the other side. If she is willing to leave her husband for the next best thing what makes you think it will not happen the same few years from now? My personal advice is to talk to your wife about how you feel right now and break the contact with the other woman, at least for a while. Put everything in balance and take a calculated decision that you won't regret.

[EvilMJ 65]

I am also one of those who has never fallen for a swing partner. I love my husband, he loves me, the rest of them are just friends and people we have fun with. There is not one person in the world who could tempt me enough to destroy my family. I do have a swing partner that I COULD fall in love with if I was single or not happy with my husband, but since neither is the case he is a dear friend only.

 

I am not trying to dismiss your feelings either. I do believe there are people out there who develop feelings for their swing partners. Ultimately you have to decide what is best for everyone involved:

 

I do think that you need to put some distance between yourself and this other woman so that you can get your head on straight. Why fan the fires unless you are prepared to get burned.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Some solid advice.... I am going to give it a break.... no sex, no talking, no nothing. Need to get out of this funk I am in. Seeya around.

 

Thanks again.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

well things went okay today... she stopped by the house for a visit but I was sleeping. So that worked out well. I honestly don't know if I have enough will power not to talk to this woman. I can hold back on the sexual part of it, but not talking is hard. When we are together it seems like there is a lot of sexual tension there, it's insane. I don't know if my life could be any more messed up at this point.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

You really need to talk with your wife about this. I know some will say that if nothing is going to come of it, that it's not worth hurting her by telling her, but i think at this point the only way you are going to have any hope of really breaking things off with this woman and putting a stop to EVERYTHING is to be honest with your wife and enlisting her help.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

JustAskJulie said:

You really need to talk with your wife about this. I know some will say that if nothing is going to come of it, that it's not worth hurting her by telling her, but i think at this point the only way you are going to have any hope of really breaking things off with this woman and putting a stop to EVERYTHING is to be honest with your wife and enlisting her help.

 

That sounds great in theory. I am not a firm believer in the old honesty/best policy idea. Remember it's her best friend ( well second best I guess seeing as I am supposed to be her best friend ). I can't imagine telling her just for the sake of getting it off my chest. Nothing might not even come from this. Why chance hurting her over nothing? This "affair" has been going on for about 6 months now, and me and her are getting closer and closer. We were camping on the weekend and we went for a walk, just the two of us... I didn't look for sex and neither did she... we just talked and laughed. Something me and the Mrs have never ever done. We have had a lot of tender moments alone and with our partners present.... it's a really f'ed up situation. Well I am working the next two nights.....

 

 

and the thing is.... I don't know if I want to put a stop to this.

[rpu3 630]

... You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

 

Nope - have not fallen - even as a new entry to this scene, when I know I'd be most suspectible to having those kind of feelings in order to justify it to myself.

 

But we all know it's happened, and all it sounds like is that people are going to be hurt, one way or another, since you aren't sure if you want to put a stop to it. I could be harsh and just spit out my feelings about being honest with your wife, but bottom line is I am worried for all of you, and I really hope you think things through, and seek outside counsel from a professional, if need be, to try to mitigate the damage that will be done. No matter what your decision is, someone is going to be hurt.

 

Take care,

 

Rebecca

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I wasn't suggesting you tell your wife just to get it off your chest. Just the opposite. This is her supposed best friend. SHe is getting screwed over by her husband and her best friend. The two people who she should be able to count on the most for honesty and to protect her but instead these are the two people who (although she doesn't realize it) she can't trust at all.

 

She's going to get hurt here, one way or the other and from the looks of it that hurt is going to be double as she loses two of the most important people in her life. The least you can do is be honest with her rather than sock her in the face with it as you leave her and at the same time you are leaving her take away the one person she should be able to count on at a time like that.

[Chicup 41]

Ahhh how sweet, you are in love with your wife's best friend.

 

Jesus Christ man, you have kids, and you are acting like you are 16. Be a man, break it off, and take care of your damn family. I'd expect a screen name like tortured_soul from a kid wearing white face paint and black clothes on myspace, not an adult.

 

You said you were going to stop and now you say 'and the thing is.... I don't know if I want to put a stop to this.'.

 

Great you are having romantic moments, welcome to a new relationship, that passes and then you will have screwed up several lives. If you are having a problem with your marriage, work on that, but let's not throw two families into chaos.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

 

Ooooh ooooh! Add us to the "Actually, we never have" list.

 

[Menage_a_Trois 182]

Put all three of us in the "We have never fallen in Love with a swing partner" camp. We agree with TNT when she explained how being very fond of play partners or loving them like a dear friend, is one thing but loving them like a spouse is quite another. We have a few lifestyle friends that we consider like family, BUT no more so than we would a vanilla friend.

[Swing*8701 887]

The first warning sign is that you think she's 'perfect'. No one is. If she thinks you're 'perfect' that's double trouble. You have a wife and kids and to you the grass appears 'greener'. It's not and if you want to feel misery, see how you feel becoming a 'weekend dad' after the divorce.

[Tybee Swing 286]

The other woman DOES indeed know about the way I feel, and she has the same type of feelings towards me.

 

Ouch. When I read this I had the same feeling that somebody else already posted - she's being betrayed by the two people she should be able to trust the most.

 

You guys can't tell me you never fell for one of your partners. Total BS.

 

We two really have not. Honest. Not even close.

 

In another post, you mentioned that when camping, you and the lady took a long walk alone, talking and laughing. You said you've never done that with your wife. Seriously??? In all these years of life together, bringing babies into the world and everything, you've never talked and laughed together? Sharing a tender moment? It sounds incredibly hard to believe. I wonder if you're shutting out the fond memories of times with your wife, in order to help you justify your fondness for the "perfect" lady? Just some thoughts for you.

 

Do you love your wife?

[kjskdv2328 15]

Well Mr Tortured Soul you are the exact reason why those of us on the line about swinging are doubting this. I am worried that my boyfriend will fall for the women we sleep with and not tell me. As far as I am concerned your wife was open enough to swing with you and it probably was you idea to begin with. I am sure she had her doubts and you are making all those come true for her. In my eyes you are a cheat.

[prettylady 221]

kjskdv2328 said:

Well Mr Tortured Soul you are the exact reason why those of us on the line about swinging are doubting this. I am worried that my boyfriend will fall for the women we sleep with and not tell me. As far as I am concerned your wife was open enough to swing with you and it probably was you idea to begin with. I am sure she had her doubts and you are making all those come true for her. In my eyes you are a cheat.

 

There is something about this comment that I love. I can't put my finger on it exactly but, you seem so sweet and I am reading it with a sense of safety that you are going to say something wonderful to me as the cheater, then you smack him upside the head with the you are a cheat in what seems like the same sweet demeanor.

 

This is not an insult by any means, I really do love the way you worded it.

 

Am I making sense? Not likely I am on my third glass of wine.

 

There should be a no drinking and posting clause on this board.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Ok... when I said you can't tell me you never fell for a partner... I didn't mean that everyone on the entire S-board has. I just meant there must be someone who feels(felt) this way.

 

Now that you have all so eloquently stated that I am an immature idiot cheat deadbeat loser, I assure you.... that's pretty much how i DON'T feel right now. I feel good and bad at the same time - it is actually indescribable.

 

A bit of history.... I have had 2 FFM with my wife and another friend. I have had 2 different FMFM, and 1 FMFMFM..... this is not going to go over well... but I have had affairs over the past 6 years... with 4 different women. I have slept with a few women and I have never felt the way I feel now about the best friend. I know I am a PIG, a DOG, whatever. I just came here for some advice from someone who has gone through something similar. That's all.

 

I never pushed for membership into this scene... and to be honest it's not for me.... I made a mistake of getting intimate with a woman I already held in high regard. My bad.

 

Anyway I am sticking to the advice of not talking to her.... i felt like crap all night at work.... couldn't stop thinking about her... and to make matters worse watched The Notebook - bad idea, good movie though.

 

I know I am new here and I realize no one in this world owes me anything, but I really thought a community like this would be a little more understanding.

[prettylady 221]

Tortured_Soul said:

A bit of history.... I have had 2 FFM with my wife and another friend. I have had 2 different FMFM, and 1 FMFMFM..... this is not going to go over well... but I have had affairs over the past 6 years... with 4 different women. I have slept with a few women and I have never felt the way I feel now about the best friend. I know I am a PIG, a DOG, whatever. I just came here for some advice from someone who has gone through something similar. That's all.

 

Ouch! Tortured Soul.

 

That is quite the FYI if you wanted people to stop coming down hard on you then this tidbit was probably not the best thing to tell everyone. but as they say Honesty is the best policy. Does you wife know about your affairs.

 

I may not have the backing of anyone here but I say she is better off with out you. Please don't claim to love your wife. Not with all of this hanging in your closet. One mistake, I can still believe you love her but 4 in 6 years. It really is time to grow up and take control of your hormones.

Were I am sure there are people here who have had affairs, the board is not defined by this act. To talk about affairs then say in the same paragraph that you came here for advice because you think we would have gone through something similar is somewhat insulting. I know you were talking about the emotional attachment to your friend, but it was a poorly put together paragraph and many people here may take offense to it.

 

Just a heads up. This was not a well thought out post.

[Chicup 41]

I know I am new here and I realize noone in this world owes me anything, but I really thought a community like this would be a little more understanding.

 

That was your mistake, and not an uncommon one. Most happy swingers ™ have nothing in common with what motivates cheating. We view our marriages as super strong and very open on all levels of communication. Being so happy in our marriage makes us quite opposed to cheating and we are always on the watch for couples who are swinging as a method of sanctioned cheating.

 

Despite the fact that Mr. Chicup has seen me have sex with a number of women and has even sent me off to have sex without her, she would be devistated if I were to cheat on her. Likewise her ass would be curbside if I found out she was doing the same to me. Its the emotional deception and lack of trust that would do it for me, and I would assume most swingers here based on past threads.

 

To me it sounds like the problem is you don't love your wife so you go looking for it. The honest solution is to deal with that aspect, or you can continue to be a tortured soul until you are too old to care anymore.

[Tybee Swing 286]

this is not going to go over well... but I have had affairs over the past 6 years... with 4 different women. I have slept with a few women and I have never felt the way I feel now about the best friend.

 

.... I made a mistake of getting intimate with a woman I already held in high regard. My bad.

 

I have to say that I admire your outright honesty in revealing something that you already sense you'll get trounced on for. That takes guts. I'm very curious about this. I'm sure that there are people like you that have fallen in love with a play partner and even left their spouse for the other. I'd like to learn from this. Can I ask you some questions?

 

Why did you have the affairs? I'd really like to know what drove you in that direction.

 

Does your wife know about any of it, or has she suspected it?

 

If she's ever asked you questions and seemed to suspect it, did you admit to any of it?

 

I know I am new here and I realize noone in this world owes me anything, but I really thought a community like this would be a little more understanding.

 

The reason this community isn't liking this is because most of us keep our spouse as #1 above all, and our relationship always comes first. The swinging is just for fun, play and friendship (sometimes not even friendship - depends). The other people are bed buddies or FWB. For the most part, falling in love with others is not part of this lifestyle. Most swingers feel that if something started to go that way, they'd cut off that relationship and move on. Several people here have said they've done just that if feelings started to develop - nip it in the bud. Some people are "free to explore emotional relationships" - and that's polyamory. But that's not generally part of swinging.

 

The other aspect is the vast difference between swinging and cheating. Swinging is all about openness and honesty, shared experiences, lots of communicating with your spouse, staying on the same page with your spouse, being in touch with each other's feelings, and only choosing to do those things that you both agree you're 100% okay with. It's all about full disclosure. A couple has to be very close to be this way with each other.

 

Cheating is the opposite - sneaking around on the side, lying to cover up where you've been, knowing that what you're doing would hurt your spouse and cause major problems if they knew what you're doing. Cheating is all about you, not the two of you. This is why people here aren't in sync with what you've been up to, and don't agree with any of it.

 

I never pushed for membership into this scene... and to be honest it's not for me.

 

I'd love to hear more about this. Did your wife suggest that you two start swinging? Did she do it to hopefully keep you from cheating? Why is it not for you? Can you elaborate on what you don't like about swinging and why it's not working for you?

 

I'm looking forward to the answers, if you care to give them.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Why did I have the affairs? Some rough times in the marriage coupled with some attractive women who also thought the same about me. I never initiated these affairs, but I did nothing to prevent them.

 

My wife suspected me and actually accused me of cheating but I denied it.

 

 

My wife never suggested swinging but she was interested in her friend's husband, basically she thought it would be exciting to be with someone new. We were over their house one night, in the hot tub, and it just happened. The women took their tops off and the rest is history. Our other encounters were when we were younger, and yes I pushed for those.

 

Why is swinging not for me? Ok, it's not that I don't enjoy it. I do. I just prefer being with one person....

 

This is the weird part... at one point I mustered up enough balls to end it with my wife, not to leave her for another woman... just to end it. We were fighting all the time and things were really shitty. Then she lays it on me... pregnant. So we worked things out, I went back to being my usual unhappy self ( on the inside anyway ), stopped seeing the 2 women i was seeing and for a while things were really good. I stopped going out. I have gone out once in the last 4 years without my wife ( to a bar ). Now if my wife hadn't been pregnant, we would have went our separate ways.... and I never would have met this friend of hers....

[EvilMJ 65]

This is the weird part... at one point I mustered up enough balls to end it with my wife, not to leave her for another woman... just to end it. We were fighting all the time and things were really shitty. Then she lays it on me... pregnant. So we worked things out, I went back to being my usual unhappy self ( on the inside anyway ), stopped seeing the 2 women i was seeing and for a while things were really good. I stopped going out. I have gone out once in the last 4 years without my wife ( to a bar ). Now if my wife hadn't been pregnant, we would have went our seperate ways...... and I never would have met this friend of hers....

 

This is the part I have the most concern for.

 

Why are you staying in a marriage where you and her are both unhappy with? If it is for the sake of the child, let me tell you that kids are very smart, if you are unhappy they pick that up. Are they learning how two people who are in love with each other act and show affection, or are they just seeing two people tollerate each other. If that is the case then you aren't doing them any favours. Why mess up three lives rather than two. (some might not agree with me on this one).

 

I think you need to really decided what is important to you. Your wife and family, or this woman. It's clear you don't want to give her up. It's decision time. I don't agree with cheating ever, there is not one good excuse for this in the world.

[prettylady 221]

EvilMJ said:

This is the part I have the most concern for.

 

Why are you staying in a marriage where you and her are both unhappy with? If it is for the sake of the child, let me tell you that kids are very smart, if you are unhappy they pick that up. Are they learning how two people who are in love with each other act and show affection, or are they just seeing two people tolerate each other. If that is the case then you aren't doing them any favours. Why mess up three lives rather than two. (some might not agree with me on this one)..

 

I agree 100% with MJ on this point. My children who are 7 and 8 have said that they like it now because I laugh. They don't remember me laughing while I was in my marriage. They wish we could be a happy family again, but they know that just is not going to happen, so we enjoy each others company and when they are with Dad they enjoy his company. My ex and I get along better now then we did when we were married, still can't stand the sight of him, but there you go.

 

The kids feel and see it even at this tender age. they were 5 and 6 when Mr and I separated.

 

If you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of you child.

[intuition897 2,179]

I really do feel for you in your situation, TorturedSoul, and your handle is very appropriate. Please don't mistake the sternness of the tone of most board members for hostility. It truly is out of concern for you that we are as bitchy about it as we are. If we didn't care, then we'd tell you to just do whatever you wanna do, leave your wife, tell your partner in crime to leave her husband, and go screw each other's brains out. But we do care that you're seriously screwing up not only your marriage, but your life, and the lives of all of those whom the resultant ripples of this tsunami will touch. Taking up with this other woman is not the answer right now; first things first.

 

You need to take care of your shit at home, namely setting aside some time (like a solid MONTH!) to come clean to your wife. Until she knows the real you, she is making uninformed decisions about who she is dedicating her life to (which may or may not be a component of your marriage). She may find that you are an unsuitable mate for her now, and she may choose to leave. You should respect her need to respect herself, and allow her to leave if she feels she needs to in order to retain that. But this is the time that you and she should meet together like the adults that you are, and without any guile or games, dissect what remains of your relationship, and assess whether or not it's salvageable. Sounds difficult and painful, doesn't it. That's because it is. If she believed that you were faithful, if she ever loved you, you can expect her heart to be broken, and you can expect to feel lower than a pile of shit. But that's life. You makes de choices, an' ye live wid 'em. If you want to run and hide from that, you will be running scared for the rest of your life, and you won't amount to much as a person. The good news is that you don't have to be a shitty person anymore. It's why we're saying this in the first place! You're standing at the bottom of Everest right now looking up (or maybe afraid to look up), but the pain and sorrow you feel on the way to the summit will seem like nothing once you get there. You will feel clean and whole again. You will feel like you just had a 100lb weight taken off your shoulders that you'd been carrying so long, you'd forgotten it was there. But you'll know when it's gone!

 

Getting square with your wife again is respectful of both you and her. And you will find out the truth about a relationship that you gave up on...there may be more to it than you thought there was. Don't even think about this other woman right now. Finish the relationship you started first. Or who knows? Maybe once you do this, the relationship you gave up on will have more substance to it than you first thought.

 

We wish you luck.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Thanks for the advice. I am not currently having a true physical affair with this woman ( although I would have no control if the opportunity presented itself ). The only physical thing we have done that my wife doesn't know about is kiss ( and that was once ). Even now, I wouldn't even call it an emotional affair. I have seen her a couple of times this week.... swimming at her pool and she was over for a visit.... she seems a little distant, maybe she thinks I am done with her.... I dunno. I had sex with my wife last night, and as I was rubbing her leg I thought about her, first time I have ever done that.

 

I don't think coming clean with my affairs would resolve anything for anybody. Like you said, I would end up burning a hole in my wife's heart. I do love my wife, it's just not the same way I feel about this other woman. I am not stupid, I have anticipated being with other women before... waiting to touch them and.. well you know. I could be confused I guess, it could be because she's older, because she's pretty much unattainable, because she's beautiful, because she's so kind , or because all of these things combine into making her totally irresistible to me. I really don't know.

 

Anyway, not much else to report... still messed up. Waiting to get back to work.

[intuition897 2,179]

Tortured_Soul said:

Thanks for the advice. I am not currently having a true physical affair with this woman ( although I would have no control if the opportunity presented itself ). The only phsical thing we have done that my wife doesn't know about is kiss ( and that was once ). Even now, I wouldn't even call it an emotional affair. I have seen her a couple of times this week.... swimming at her pool and she was over for a visit.... she seems a little distant, maybe she thinks I am done with her.... I dunno. I had sex with my wife last night, and as I was rubbing her leg I thought about her, first time I have ever done that.

 

A kiss, a blowjob, full-blown sex...whatever. The adultery is not in the act, my friend. Do you think your emotional infidelity might hurt your wife? Hurt her more, perhaps, than the sex? If the other woman is distant, it may be her conscience keeping her from doing any more damage than she already has. She likely has sensed your feelings for her, and is wisely withdrawing.

 

Tortured_Soul said:

I don't think coming clean with my affairs would resolve anything for anybody. Like you said, I would end up burning a hole in my wife's heart. I do love my wife, it's just not the same way I feel about this other woman.

Do you want to keep both? What is your ideal solution? I'm assuming you don't want to have to lie anymore; no one can live their entire lives in a lie, or if they do, they are half dead anyway. Do you see your wife being okay with your developing a relationship with someone else? Do you want the other woman's husband and kids to pick up and leave, so that she's free to do as she pleases? Do you want to not have to deal with explaining the new living arrangements to the kids? I'm not being facetious, I'm asking a hypothetical question. Some people are actually okay with polyamory, or multiple long-term relationships.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

I am not stupid, I have anticipated being with other women before... waiting to touch them and.. well you know.

 

It has nothing to do with intelligence. Intelligence and knowledge are two different things. Any monkey can gain knowledge (no offense, Spoomonkey ), but it doesn't make one intelligent. Intelligence is the ability to actually apply knowledge to real life and make it work. Use knowledge as a tool. I'm not questioning your intelligence; I just think perhaps you haven't yet acquired full knowledge of this whole thing. Please don't think I'm being condescending. I'm not. We're all still learning. I don't know if I'm misreading it or not, but the anticipation you describe above sounds more like fantasizing. Waiting eagerly. Yearning. It just struck me that perhaps the trouble is that you are focused on what YOU are getting out of this. It's been my experience that people who are into swinging because they want some strange pussy/cock are going to damage their relationship, because it's not about the other person. If you and your wife are into this to satisfy your own sexual desires (as opposed to giving it as a gift to one another so that you can enjoy his/her happiness), it's not drawing you closer together...which is the point! If swinging is not helping your relationship, it's hurting it. And if it hurts your relationship, you should not do it. JMHO, but you're not ready for the level of honesty that is required to do this in a healthy way.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

I could be confused I guess, it could be because she's older, because she's pretty much unattainable, because she's beautiful, because she's so kind , or because all of these things combine into making her totally irresistible to me. I really don't know.

 

It's not real love. It's infatuation. A doozy of a case, granted, but infatuation nonetheless. This is not to say that she is not a wonderful person, but if you re-read the bolded parts, you'll notice that you are describing her. All those qualities about her that you utterly worship. Love - real love - doesn't affect you. It changes you. You think clearly, you see clearly, you feel light and free. You are not anxious. Instead you feel still and calm inside. It's not a flash flood. It's a deep and steady river. Put your hand in it and it is yielding. Swim in it, and its current moves you. Swelled with enough water, it overflows and overpowers the strongest dams. It is unstoppable and immovable as an ocean.

 

It is peace. Do you feel at peace, knowing in your heart what must be done?

You're asking the wrong people for advice; you're the only one who can answer your own question.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

I never said I was intelligent... just that I am not stupid... I know what the "wanting" and anticipation feels like.... wasn't clear in my post... but that's not how I feel about this woman.There is something more. I don't just want to take her and fuck her...... I want to be with her. But I know it's NEVER going to happen. Both of us are in the exact same situation. I know nothing will come of it. I came on here in hopes of getting some advice on how to get through this tough time. In a few years, I'll prob look back and laff about how foolish I was to think I that I would ever find a soul-mate and at the exact same time laff about trying to get advice from a swinger's forum ( last reason I ever thought I'd frequent a swingers site ). Who knows? I know I can live a lie, I am a strong enough person to do that. I can wait until my kids are old enough to understand what's what. We all do things we don't like sometimes.... somethings we just have to do to get through. I don't plan on making anyone else miserable just because I am.

[intuition897 2,179]

Tortured_Soul said:

I came on here in hopes of getting some advice on how to get through this tough time. In a few years, I'll prob look back and laff about how foolish I was to think I that I would ever find a soul-mate and at the exact same time laff about trying to get advice from a swinger's forum ( last reason I ever thought I'd frequent a swingers site ). Who knows?

 

I'm sure you will. The thing is, you've gotten some advice! It's just not the advice you wanted to hear. Storm out in a huff if you like, you wouldn't be the first. But we call 'em like we see 'em. And all we can see from our perspective is that you've got a helluva lot of work ahead of you if you want to make things right. It's not the easy route, but it's the one we recommend...because we've taken it ourselves. We might be "only swingers", but honey, we're offering some of the best advice you will ever get.

 

 

Tortured_Soul said:

I know I can live a lie, I am a strong enough person to do that. I can wait until my kids are old enough to understand what's what. We all do things we don't like sometimes.... somethings we just have to do to get through. I don't plan on making anyone else miserable just because I am.

 

There's a fine line between caring too much for yourself, and not caring enough. The answer is to just care for yourself as much as you would for other people, and vice versa. The good old golden rule. It's true that we sometimes have to just endure unchangeable life circumstances - unemployment, illness, death of a loved one, disabilities, etc. - but treating your wife like a mushroom (keeping her in the dark and feeding her bullshit) condescends to her. You don't do that to someone if you love them. Who are you protecting more by not talking to her? Her, and her feelings? Or you, and your feelings of guilt when she is hurt? She hasn't needed a babysitter in a long time.

 

I'm sorry that we don't seem sympathetic. I guess it's because we don't really feel sorry for people who feel sorry for themselves, yet they don't do anything to make it right. We are very supportive of those who are stuck in truly bad situations, like the ones mentioned above. But you haven't lost your home in a flood, you haven't got a terminal disease, you aren't living in poverty. You've got it all, man! You're just not happy with it. A friend of mine and I were talking last evening about happiness, and she said that even when they didn't have two cents to rub together - when buying yogurt was a luxury! - she was happy. Truly happy. Her life was very simple and uncomplicated. She wanted nothing more, needed nothing more, than to go through life, whatever may come, with her husband by her side. I don't feel sorry for your situation, but I do feel badly that you feel the way you do about it.

 

This is your life, and you will do what you want. If you choose to lie, we all know you don't need our permission or approval. We are advising against it, though. I will share something with you. I know about living a lie. I used to think it took a strong person to do it, too. Until one day I woke up and realized that this "strength" was my greatest weakness.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Interesting last paragraph. The thing is, man I am so ready to hear it, I am not a dishonest person. But if I was going to tell my wife about things I did, I would have never done them in the first place. It probably is selfishness why I am still in this marriage, scared of the usual I guess - not seeing the kids , $, losing level of comfort that I am used to, and being truly alone. I did take your advice... I stopped talking to her somewhat... I mean how could I completely stop without making things real bad... yeah... your husband won't talk to me , why? Oh I dunno , I'll ask him. It'd just complicate matters. We have not had any physical contact in over a week. I don't know what else to do. I just want to get over these feelings. That's it. Then I can go on to a somewhat normal life which when compared to how things are going now, suited me just fine.

 

And I have yet to hear an "I thought I was in love story"..... anybody?

[two4youinswva 3,068]

I don't know if you'll get many folks to share a story, but, if you want some feedback on how often this occurs, you could create a poll and see what kind of percentages show up.

 

I would keep the responses simple. ie: "He Has", "She Has", "We both have", and "Neither of us have".

 

Oh, and make sure it is an anonymous poll.

 

My guess is that this does happen from time to time, but not as often as you may think. Of course, I could be wrong. I was wrong about something earlier this year.

 

Either way, best of luck to you!

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Some call for good luck might be in order. Just got off the phone with my wife and we have been invited over to the other couples' place for an all-niter next week. I already said that I'd go, mainly because I am dying to see her again. To be honest, I am all over this woman... I think I might just have to let things run their course and whatever happens - happens. We are both working backshift on the same night one of the nights before this sleepover, she has called me at work before... should be interesting to see if she calls me.

 

I can't describe what is between the two of us, it really is a powerful force, I know it sounds cheesy. But I am drawn to her. We have had sex in front of our spouses when they were totally not into it. To me it was like me and her were the only ones in the room.

 

I know I am pretty much copping out of the advice you guys gave me and I am messed up, but this invite just through me for a loop.... I am so confused it's not even funny. I just hope she has a little more sense than I do at this point..... I need to have a face to face talk with this woman, one that doesn't involve footsies. I do need to grow up and fast. But really there must be something between us.... there has to be... this has been going on for 6 months now. I have been in agony and ecstasy for 6 months. Insane. Why would she tell me that she felt the same way about me? Why would she ask what we would do when she was 50 and I was tired of her? Why would she call me at work? and at home when my wife is not there? Why would she not tell my wife she was talking to me? She said that she might feel like this because it is a younger man that wants her and she didn't think that someone like me would be attracted to her.

 

 

I NEED A NEW HOBBY......... big time.... do they still barrel roll over Niagra Falls?

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Frig it, I am going to ask her to go to b'fast after our shift this week... I need to get some things straightened out. When I see her, most times I don't know what to say...... should be an interesting a.m.

 

 

I'll keep you updated if anything happens between now and then.

[intuition897 2,179]

You're thinking with your dick, y'know...and it's not used to being told "No".

 

Have fun.

[DBL D 120]

Tortured Soul,

 

You just need to figure out what in the hell you really want in life. Why are you married, BTW? You haven't really been your wifes best friend for some time.

 

A vast percentage of us who swing really do value our best friends input to our lives. We wouldn't think of acting upon a cheating urge. Don't know what you have been reading to make you think we would have more experiences in this area. We have learned to channel our urges so that what we do makes each of us happier. It isn't there so that we can walk around in a continuous state of horniness. You are wanting to live out your fantasies alone, we like to do it with other people and keep the marriage strong. If you have all these feelings and have already been a cheater, perhaps you should seek out some professional advice.

 

Good luck.

 

Male D

[Tybee Swing 286]

Tortured_Soul said:

Just got off the phone with my wife and we have been invited over to the other couples' place for an all-niter next week. I already said that I'd go, mainly because I am dying to see her again. To be honest, I am all over this woman... I think I might just have to let things run their course and whatever happens - happens. We are both working backshift on the same night one of the nights before this sleepover, she has called me at work before... should be interesting to see if she calls me.

 

I can't describe what is between the two of us, it really is a powerful force, I know it sounds cheesy. But I am drawn to her. We have had sex in front of our spouses when they were totally not into it. To me it was like me and her were the only ones in the room.

 

Hi TS,

 

This highlighted part above, describing how you and the woman were totally into each other and you were oblivious to your wife in the room and the other husband - this I have seen on this board in the past. It's usually posted by the mate that was feeling left out and ignored, and they were very alarmed at how that happened, and how it felt. Just like you described, the one left out was "totally not into it", either. When I read these things, I sense that they weren't into it because their spouse wasn't tuned into them, even though they were engaging in sex with somebody else (with permission). It felt to them that their spouse was a million miles away. These are the people who really should not be in swinging. These are the couples that are drawn further apart, rather than closer together with swinging.

 

Many of us in this thread have been trying to describe this feeling closer through swinging, rather than farther apart or drawn more toward others. I thought of a thread here to share with you that will demonstrate with more depth what we are talking about. It was called How Much Do We Really Love our Spouses/Partners. I went and found it for you. If you read through this, and if you can see the difference in how we feel about our spouses while swinging, compared with how you feel about your wife in the same setting, I think you'll understand.

 

You said in an earlier post that you're not a dishonest person. But when your wife has suspected your numerous past affairs and asked you, you denied it. That's dishonesty. Living the life of a cheater is dishonesty. Feeling these things for this woman and hiding it from your wife is also dishonesty.

 

You said something earlier about how it takes courage to live a lie. I disagree, I think living with lies is the cowardly way out; it's how to get what you want and keep from facing the consequences (having your cake and eating it too). I believe it takes a lot more courage to live life honestly, facing the consequences of all of your choices. It also takes more courage to not let each whim or temptation guide your actions, but rather to have some character values that are important to you be your barometer for the choices you make. In other words, just because a woman flirts, that doesn't make you helpless to give in to it. That's how you described how your past affairs all started. They started it, you couldn't help it. But of course, all you have to say is "no". Or, just smile and walk away from the opportunity. We all have the ability to make that choice.

 

In an earlier post, you said that swinging really wasn't for you because you would prefer to be with one woman. For so many reasons, I agree with you that swinging isn't for you.

 

I hope that the thread I linked here will give you food for thought. Take care.

[Tortured_Soul 15]

Alot went on last nite and today. We were invited over last nite... I was like, well if you wanna go, I'll go. So we get ready... I wasn't even going to drink and my wife says what fun are you when you don't drink. So we get there, we are all swimming, having a good time. My wife shows us all her thong so i am kinda thinking, fair enough... me and the other woman are in the pool... we start flirting... nothing serious. She was on my back and I was swimming around. She touches me outside of my shorts and I feel her ass. All is good. Her husband and my wife say they are going to come in again. Anyway they don't. Me and the other woman, we kiss, and hug. Things still seem ok. We get out and we all sit around and we are talking. My wife says she is tired... she goes in. The other woman also goes in. Anyway to make a long story short, my wife storms off - tries to hit/scratch me and says our marriage is over. Kinda put a damper on the nite. She leaves in the car ( after 3 coolers ), leaves me there all nite. I finally get a hold of her and she picks me up in the am. We talk and she tells me that she feels that I disrespected her ( which I did ). She wondered how two people could carry on like that in front of their spouses when they were obviously not into it. And she told me she was frightened of our marriage ending. Jesus, i didn't know what to say. We end up having sex, still don't know how that happened... and that was that. Her friend calls her and she won't talk to her. Her friend is upset and says that she feels like she lost her best friend. She is almost crying.

 

Anyway, to sum this all up. I am done. Done pursuing this woman, there is no doubt that there is chemistry between us... but it's not going to happen. Today and last night were pure HELL for me ( and for my wife and her friend ). I am the cause of it all. I really am. I will try to prevent this from creeping into my life again..... imagine if my everyday was this bad. What if leaving was the biggest mistake I could ever make? I feel as though I have lost already, lost ... yeah that describes me perfectly. Why did we have to make out? Why was I so stupid? Why do I feel a loss for this woman when I never had her in the first place... why do I feel loss for my wife someone who I had thought I had grown apart from?

 

Anyway, it's all history now. Our swinging days are behind us... I am sure of that. I prob won't be returning to the board again save to say thank-you to any additional slams/advice that you guys might have left to give. Hopefully I won't have to come back to give any more updates on this.

 

Thank you all,

 

[lovedoctor 15]

Wow, I haven't been on here in forever and then I stumble onto this post.

 

Tortured Soul, I made the mistake of loving the male half of our swing partners and it has been pure hell. Not that I think loving someone is ever wrong, not at all. It's just difficult.

 

The four of us were headed on that road to polyamory. We talked about sailing around the world, buying a house together when we retire - the whole thing. Love is a natural occurance in polyamory, that's the end result of what we were all dealing with conceptually.

 

What none of us counted on was the that one of us (the female of the other couple) was actively cheating on her husband for the last 8-10 years. She is the kind of person that seemed so "real" when we first met and the longer I knew her, the more I learned, the less I like her. And when I found out about (and witnessed ) the other men (my God, we are swingers - how much more frickin' liberal of a life does she need???) So, it turns out that she doesn't know a lie from the truth, justifies her actions from something that occured when she was a child, and clings to her spouse as a form of refuge and support rather than as a partner.

 

So, while she was busy with her extracurricular activites (shopping and cheating), her husband and I developed a deep, mutually respectful friendship. We share so many interests in common and really are best friends. My husband is fine with the fact that we love each other. We've never gone outside the boundries of anything we've discussed with our spouses.

 

Now, all of a sudden, she is so HURT by the fact that we love each other. She feels betrayed (after 10 years of cheating) and she blames me for "alienating" her husband. What started out as a little seeming jealousy on her part has blossomed to full-fledged psycho woman. She thinks I am a villian at this point.

 

All because her husband and I love each other, which was the goal of being "exclusive" in our relationship with each other.

 

Those of you who know me on here have seen some of my posts about this couple before, and there certainly were warning signs that she was unstable. I just simply didn't listen. And those of you who have any experience in psychology can recognize personality disorders a mile away. My problem was that I was too close to the situation and did not see it coming.

 

So while the other 3 of us were all on the same page, she was only acting the part. So she and hubby are in counseling. I want to just step away from the relationship. He wants to work on saving his marriage but doesn't want to lose me. She doesn't trust me at all since I am trying to "steal her man", my husband is unpleasantly confused and at this point I am so disgusted with her manipulating and self induced victimization that I can hardly look at her (ok, I still love her, but I don't even like her)

 

So, advice you poor tourtured soul: Back away from the train wreck before it happens, otherwise you will be trying to sort out the dead from the injured