Swinging vs. Polyamory - Which should we do?

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

Hello, this is the wife half of Two Little Birds. My husband is mostly interested in swinging. Either with a couple or having a threesome, etc...

 

I'd like eventually to consider an open relationship...one in which I could have a lover but he isn't necessarily there.

 

Do others here have experience with that? And if either way, what is your opinion on that.

[Guest Melesse]

Actually, that's the situation my wife and I are in. We have a regular third, and we had the talk tonight about swinging vs. polyamory, and have decided we both think we would prefer polyamory, although we're going to dabble in swinging, and we want a fourth...

 

I think Polyamory is an ideal situation for us. It provides couples with more and different things than a pair, especially if one partner needs more sex than the other. Both of us are extremely sexual, just in different ways and this satisfies us both.

[janaandjames 24]

Polyamory is very interesting to us as well. We have gradually come to prefer MFM threesomes, and have found a regular we like a lot, so we wonder why bother with looking for new playmate when this one works just fine

 

I don't play alone with him real often, maybe once a month, with hubby's approval of course... but sometimes he comes over and we have time alone in the bedroom without hubby ...

works for us

[Concupiscence 16]

I am a big Robert Heinlein fan which means that polyamory is a subject that holds a great deal of fascination for me. I love his idea that sex is a beautiful wonderful thing that should be shared and enjoyed but that it should never be exclusionary. He advocated "group" marriages in his science fiction which involved any number of people who "opted in" and were either accepted or rejected by the other members of the group. Their were lots of other details and no formally or institutionally recognized forms of marriage, it was merely a matter of people who wanted to be legally responsible for each other and any children who came about as a result. The spiritual and emotional aspects were left up to the individuals in the group to determine and not that of the state.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

This is Mr. Little Bird. I'd like to put my thoughts down. Swinging and threesomes are a fun thing to do AS A COUPLE. Having a lover somewhere is a different story. Especially when one tends to quickly equate sex with love. In the first stages of a romance, which is what this idea sounds like, not only is it more passionate, but there's that constant thinking about the lover, where you keep wanting to call them on the phone, and can talk for hours. That's not a fun thing to share as a couple: That's having a boyfriend.

 

Also, the grass often looks greener on the other side. When at one's lovers house, the problems back home look escapable; don't work on them, just stay with the lover.

 

Watching my wife go down on somebody could be hot. Knowing someone is giving her an orgasm? Great. Imagining my wife holding hands with someone as they stroll along the beach ... I don't like that idea. That would hurt my heart.

 

The little boy bird

[swing52001 15]

I'm with you Mr. LittleBird. My wife went out with a friend one night and finding out that they held hands whilst walking down the street really pissed me off. I was jealous as all get out. If they had spent the evening screwing their brains out I wouldn't have been as concerned. Must be that I consider holding hands to be romantic....something that is reserved for my wife and I, where fucking each others brains out is just sex....

[LetsParty 17]

Great comments!

 

My wife plays alone sometimes, but what she does is set out VERY specific guidelines at the outset of every encounter.

 

This is SEX ONLY! You are a PENIS to me.

NOTHING comes between me and my husband.

ANYONE that wants me to lie to my husband is OUT!

If you don't respect me, it's over.

 

Or something like that...

 

So, she has a few guys that she sees every now and again... but really... They are nothing more than sex toys! (Unless she's lying to me!! No, I don't think so!)

 

Is this polyamory? Isn't polyamory when you love the others? If she has a few sex toys on the side, I don't think that's a polyamory lifestyle, is it?

[NakedInSeattle 159]

Well...I've tried polyamory and I'm now into swinging. Believe me! Swinging wins hands down. No that's not right. Swinging wins pants down! Swinging with all its varieties and subtleties is far better than polyamory. Polyamory is exclusive just opened up a bit. Polyamory has all the jealousies and promises and such as does the vanilla relationships. Just with one or more partners added. Give me a good swinging partner any day. Shit! That's what I've got. Thank you very much.

[jcbicouple 24]

Hello, this is the wife half of Two Little Birds. My husband is mostly interested in swinging. Either with a couple or having a threesome, etc...

 

I'd like eventually to consider an open relationship...one in which I could have a lover but he isn't necessarily there.

 

Do others hear have experience with that? And if either way, what is your opinion on that.

 

In the last couple of years, we have begun playing separately on occasion. Our experiences have been extremely positive. Mrs. JC has found a fairly regular playmate that she enjoys spending time alone with very much. Mr. JC has had a couple of one time playmates. It can be a little scary at first, but we have developed complete trust in each other. We each know that at the end of the day(or night), we are coming home to/with each other. We still enjoy threesomes and foursomes as much as we always have, but enjoy the alone time just as much. It's not for everyone, but can be a lot of fun for all. We talk in detail about all of our meetings, and have some incredible sex while telling and hearing about the play date.

[DBL D 120]

I am a big Robert Heinlein fan which means that polyamory is a subject that holds a great deal of fascination for me. I love his idea that sex is a beautiful wonderful thing that should be shared and enjoyed but that it should never be exclusionary. He advocated "group" marriages in his science fiction which involved any number of people who "opted in" and were either accepted or rejected by the other members of the group. Their were lots of other details and no formally or institutionally recognized forms of marriage, it was merely a matter of people who wanted to be legally responsible for each other and any children who came about as a result. The spiritual and emotional aspects were left up to the individuals in the group to determine and not that of the state.

 

Seems like the larger the "group" the harder it would be to be accepted.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

Seems like the larger the "group" the harder it would be to be accepted.

 

Right on, Double D,

It's hard enough for two couples to decide what to get on a pizza and what video to rent!

 

Swing52001, well put. It's the romance and sweetness I want reserved for us. She's my sweetie.

 

I remember when she'd get these long phone calls from a girl she'd slept with (just the girl and my wife, no guys around) and I used to feel a little jealous. Not about the sex. About the long phone calls! Sometimes I think I'm weird, but really, I just know how I feel, and what is comfortable or uncomfortable for me. I don't think a little jealousy is unhealthy. It's a sort of selfishness, but we're talking about something I like more than anything in the world: Our relationship, with my little bird.

 

Mr. Little Bird

[Tybee Swing 286]

This is Mr. Little Bird. I'd like to put my thoughts down. Swinging and threesomes are a fun thing to do AS A COUPLE. Having a lover somewhere is a different story. Especially when one tends to quickly equate sex with love. In the first stages of a romance, which is what this idea sounds like, not only is it more passionate, but there's that constant thinking about the lover, where you keep wanting to call them on the phone, and can talk for hours. That's not a fun thing to share as a couple: That's having a boyfriend.

 

Also, the grass often looks greener on the other side. When at one's lovers house, the problems back home look escapable; don't work on them, just stay with the lover.

 

Watching my wife go down on somebody could be hot. Knowing someone is giving her an orgasm? Great. Imagining my wife holding hands with someone as they stroll along the beach ... I don't like that idea. That would hurt my heart.

 

The little boy bird

 

We, Mr. and Mrs. Tybeeswing, feel exactly the same way you do, and for the same reasons (we both read this thread). We have great fun with our playmates. We don't have any deeper emotional ties to them than any couple friends do. We like them a lot, we enjoy their company, and instead of playing Bunco or bowling, we're having sex together - there's the only difference.

 

Like you, we don't want to develop any of those special, loving, intense, romantic feelings with others, nor get caught up in the constant thinking about & wanting to talk to them for hours. That's for us. We are still passionately in love with each other, and we are flirting with and calling each other all day. We've often read swingers say that are bored with each other / with their sex life, and that's what brought them into this. We are definitely not bored with each other. People only have just so much time and energy to pour into deep relationships, and we'd rather pour ours into each other.

 

The fun with friends is what we do with our extra time, our social time. We have a blast, and love to watch each other have sex. No jealousy about it whatsoever. We enjoy MFM, FMF, and couples (mostly couples). But, if one of us developed an infatuation and/or separate relationship, it would hurt the other very deeply.

 

You said, "Having a lover somewhere is a different story. Especially when one tends to quickly equate sex with love." If you are describing Mrs. littlebird, you may want to ask her to examine very deeply how it would feel to her if you developed feelings like that with an outside lover? Would she wonder what you were up to every moment you were away with that woman? Would it hurt her or cause her distress or pain? Just some food for thought.

 

Best wishes to you both.

[WesternSwing 504]

Like you, we don't want to develop any of those special, loving, intense, romantic feelings with others, nor get caught up in the constant thinking about & wanting to talk to them for hours. That's for us. We are still passionately in love with each other, and we are flirting with and calling each other all day. We've often read swingers say that are bored with each other / with their sex life, and that's what brought them into this. We are definitely not bored with each other.

Please don't ever think that boredom with their mate is the reason people enter into poly relationships.

 

Mr. WS

[Tybee Swing 286]

Please don't ever think that boredom with their mate is the reason people enter into poly relationships.

 

Mr. WS

 

Hi Mr. WS, we're not poly and don't think that about people in poly relationships, because we haven't heard that from those we know of who are into poly.

 

In many swinger's profiles and various posts in different places, we've often read that their motivation to start swinging was boredom with their own sex life, and/or boredom with each other.

 

That makes us sad to hear.

[Concupiscence 16]

What I find fascinating is that the definition of swinging seems to be an issue of great importance to us. That it isn't allowed to be an all-encompassing term for any non-traditional relationship that isn't monogamous. I stress the monogamy part not the non-traditional part. I consider monogamy to be the issue in question. Regardless of how a relationship is shaped, the participants are the ones who must determine its rules and boundaries.

 

In the poll regarding a poly/swinger forum there is a question as to whether a woman could even want to be a member of a poly relationship. I find myself at the complete opposite of the spectrum and I am the type who avoids most social interaction. The idea of having a number of different people who I can surround myself with and depend on is comforting. the fact that I don't have to worry about the inevitable attraction that occurs towards one of the members of a friendship is a bonus. Friends shouldn't have to worry about the repercussion that sex would have on their relationship. As The Sereneiders so succinctly put it, their culture is used to having a strongly intertwined network of friends and family to rely on. Their observation on the American family is actually one based upon scientific theory and that leads to a whole bunch of other fascinating topics (if any one is interested I would be happy to point you to further info on it).

 

We also don't cleave to our elders the way that other cultures do and in many ways we are better for it. The point is that substituting that traditional support structure with a polyamorous relationship makes perfect sense to me. I'd like to see one family out there who doesn't have a huge amount of drama, we as humans seem to have it in our nature whether we like it or not. Besides, you have double the number of people that you get to kiss and make up with and isn't that the best part of love?

[KittKatt 16]

Hello, this is the wife half of Two Little Birds. My husband is mostly interested in swinging. Either with a couple or having a threesome, etc...

 

I'd like eventually to consider an open relationship...one in which I could have a lover but he isn't necessarily there.

 

Do others hear have experience with that? And if either way, what is your opinion on that.

 

Hi Mrs. LittleBird,

 

Yes we have and yes we do......it all started with swinging, which is fine with the Mr, however I wanted more, we talked and agreed it would pose many benefits.

 

So we are now "floaters" lol, we do both, and have many posts on the subject. For one never knows when and "if" love will even happen, but we are both open to a full open relationship, without fear or jealousy.

 

So our opinion, if it makes you two happy...go for it!!

 

good luck

xoxoxo TnC

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

The responses here have been very helpful. Anyone who looks at my (Mr. Little Bird) past threads will see what an emphasis I place on communication. Some things are either hard to talk about, or hard to put into words.

 

Mrs. Little Bird and I have read this thread, and it is helping us communicate, empathize and relate.

 

In this thread, "swingers" aren't helping our sex lives; they're helping our relationship, our love. Thank you all for sharing with us, and helping us have the conversation we should be having.

 

Your friend,

Mr. Little Bird

 

PS I'm glad you put your feelings down, little birdie. I love you.

[rachan 53]

I think our relationship is more of a poly relationship than swinging. We've been in a MFM relationship for several years with a man that I'm very fond of but I'm not in love with him. My husband isn't interested in sex with other women but he enjoys threesomes and loves seeing me sexually gratified. I'm also in a one on one relationship with a married man that I've known for more than 15 years and have been in the sexual relationship for over five years. For us at least my having the freedom of having other lovers has worked very well.

[sereneiders 263]

It calls my attention the way some swingers reacts against the whole poly idea, much the same way some vanilla reacts against the whole swinging idea.

 

The most interesting thing about this is the arguments given against polyamory, because they're led by fears, as happens with the arguments against swinging.

 

Should we pursue polyamory then? No, as there's no reason to say vanilla people should pursue swinging. Swinging isn't for everyone, a couple require a solid common ground before even thinking of it, and the same happens with polyamoral relationships.

 

However, we know for sure how valuable the process required to swing, or to choose not to do it, is. The whole idea of swinging forces us to look at our marriages thoroughly, to understand a lot of things about the relationship that most vanilla couples are even unaware of their existence. Even if you choose not to swing, the reward from this process is awesome.

 

Well, the same happens with polyamoral relationships. I believe it worth to give it a second thought, not necessarily to actually engage in poly, but because of the way it'd make us face many other things in our relationships, because it'd be an communication exercise that, IMO, would pay off at last.

 

This goes beyond the "romantic" conception we have about ourselves, our spouses and our marriages. Under this very conception we rely on very few and vague words to define our marital bonds, as is by telling "I love you" were enough to reassure that bond. This conception also inherited from the rest of our culture the pegging of sex to love, so, as swingers what we do is to detach the sex aspects from the romantic conception. This require a lot of understanding of our feelings and our behavior, and how to ensure our behavior wouldn't be misread, but, again, this misreading happens in the romantic conception context.

 

In order to consider polyamoral relationships, we'd need to challenge the whole romantic conception, to the point of finding out the "I love you" isn't what ultimately reassure the bond, but a common story where both spouses built, brick by brick, the relationship, and we treasure and caress that shared effort. And I believe that digging at this, understanding our bindings, worth the price... even if we never engage in polyamoral relationships.

[WesternSwing 504]

Thanks sereneiders, I was thinking a lot along the same lines myself. It seems that many of the arguments against poly relationships (and having a poly forum) are based on the fears of the opponents, not on rational thought, much like how non-swingers view swinging. It seems to some even the mention of the word "poly" makes them recoil in fear, fear based on emotion not on having good information to base their opinion on.

 

I am not saying that a poly relationship is right for everyone, just like swinging isn't or bungee jumping, but that facing your feelings and fears are part of personal growth, which isn't always comfortable or it wouldn't be "growth", it'd be remaining stagnant. Introspection and personal growth is always painful, but in the end always worth it.

 

Mr. WS

[sereneiders 263]

I am not saying that a poly relationship is right for everyone, just like swinging isn't or bungee jumping, but that facing your feelings and fears are part of personal growth, which isn't always comfortable or it wouldn't be "growth", it'd be remaining stagnant. Introspection and personal growth is always painful, but in the end always worth it.

 

I agree. However, this would be a too pragmatical approach for my taste: we may say "in the end always worth it" thus the "always painful" process would be a mean justified by this end.

 

I wouldn't stretch this that far. Before engaging in swinging (or any other activity) we ponder the risks versus the eventual outcome. In order to invest our time and effort to get a reward, we need to know the reward worth. It's a matter of the simplest math we use in our life, and IMO, this makes it hard to answer to vanilla people asking how much it worth swinging: it's a very personal evaluation, and something way more easy to tell once you've been there and got the reward.

 

The perspective of a painful process in order to grow, when you don't know the benefits you'd get after growing, may be enough justification to avoid engaging into the entire process.

 

We may even see some metaphysical aspects, something pertaining to our perception of our very existence. The ways everyone approach this subject is related with our beliefs (including the religion):

 

Let say you believe in Karma, after this life you'll have another one where you'd keep growing. Then, avoiding the pain in this life would be just a delay for something that sonner or later you'd have to do anyway. If in the other hand you have a Jewish/Christian mindset, and you expect to live somewhere else (like heaven) and under different terms than the ones your current life have, then there's no real need to do such a process. If you don't believe in any other life (or as happens to me, since I don't know, I think of this life as the only one I have, this I try to do everything at once, develop myself, make some difference to be reminded as the only way that for sure we "remain here" afterwards, and be hedonistic as well), you'd require to think carefully if you dare to risk a period of pain because of an uncertain reward.

 

So, what I am telling here is: there is a reward, but it value vary from people to people, for someone it may worth it, for some other it may not... casually, as happens with swinging. For a lot of vanilla couples, they're comfortable with their relationships the way it is, and with the way they share their sexuality, so, why should be pursue the swinging idea? All I can say is, it is worth to give it a thought, even if you choose not to do it.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

Right on, Double D,

It's hard enough for two couples to decide what to get on a pizza and what video to rent!

 

 

Swing52001, Well put. It's the romance and sweetness I want reserved for us. She's my sweetie.

 

I remember when she'd get these long phone calls from a girl she'd slept with (just the girl and my wife, no guys around) and I used to feel a little jealous. Not about the sex. About the long phone calls! Sometimes I think I'm weird, but really, I just know how I feel, and what is comfortable or uncomfortable for me. I don't think a little jealousy is unhealthy. It's a sort of selfishness, but we're talking about something I like more than anything in the world: Our relationship, with my little bird.

 

Mr. Little Bird

 

Mr. Little Bird just revealed something he never told me. I never knew those phone calls made him jealous. I think where we differ is he thinks romance and sweetness would be involved, whereas I just want to have fun!

[Menage_a_Trois 182]

Great comments!

 

My wife plays alone sometimes, but what she does is set out VERY specific guidelines at the outset of every encounter.

 

This is SEX ONLY! You are a PENIS to me.

NOTHING comes between me and my husband.

ANYONE that wants me to lie to my husband is OUT!

If you don't respect me, it's over.

 

Or something like that...

 

So, she has a few guys that she sees every now and again... but really... They are nothing more than sex toys! (Unless she's lying to me!! No, I don't think so!)

 

Is this polyamory? Isn't polyamory when you love the others? If she has a few sex toys on the side, I don't think that's a polyamory lifestyle, is it?

 

No this isn't polyamory. You are correct in your belief that polyamory involves being in love with others. If anything her having a few "sex toys" on the side is more of an open marriage. Everyone involved in Swinging and Polyamory have their own comfort levels and also how things in those lifestyles work for them. Swinging and Polyamory is somewhat unique to each person involved in them.

 

T, A, and P

[Menage_a_Trois 182]

Thanks sereneiders, I was thinking a lot along the same lines myself. It seems that many of the arguments against poly relationships (and having a poly forum) are based on the fears of the opponents, not on rational thought, much like how non-swingers view swinging. It seems to some even the mention of the word "poly" makes them recoil in fear, fear based on emotion not on having good information to base their opinion on.

 

 

Interesting point WesternSwing and Sereneiders. We have experience some of what you are talking about first hand. Several people we know who are swingers, are very closed minded when it comes to our relationship. No matter how much the three of us have explained about our relationship, how happy we are, etc. they still refuse to accept it. They are forever looking for the potential "drama" they have in their imaginations about this relationship. Most of them can not even begin to understand this is not just a sexual relationship. The three of us live together, for us this is a marriage between the three of us. And with any marriage there is MORE than just sex. A couple of months ago we had a celebration for our anniversary of living together. We had decided to make it a lifestyle party. What was surprising to us was that some of our "friends" at the party actually came to us with comments such as, "are you really sure this is for you?" (to The Other Mrs. Menage), "it just feel like it's an affair when Mr. Menage and The Other Mrs. Menage are out without Mrs. Menage" and "you know she'll never be anything other than a girlfriend".

 

The only thing we can gather from all the comments are that a lot of people who are supposedly open minded are actually very insecure when it comes to considering or entertaining the thought of polyamory. It's almost as if by accepting our relationship for what it is, then it makes them or their partner capable of loving someone else AND that just isn't a comfortable thought for them.

 

We guess we'll be in the nursing home sharing a room or in our rockers, with this all being said still.

 

T, A & P