Feeling like she's getting all the fun

[discoandvyper 15]

I'm sick and tired of the way things are going for us as a swinging couple.

 

We started playing as an accidental thing, one of those "too many drinks" kind of things. We had gone to a couple-friend's house for the weekend. The alcohol was flowing heavily and the wife of the friend made a move on Disco, Disco took it for what it was worth, and the two had sex on the trampoline out back.

 

We, the guys, got our bit too, as much as that first time nervousness about crossing boundaries would allow. When they were done with each other, we gave the girls oral sex ourselves, first one girl, then the other. Neither of us recieved any pleasure/attention, but that was ok that first time because we didn't really know what any boundaries are.

 

After that incident we found out that we had been "marked". That couple was a swinging couple and after making friends with them they had pretty much decided they were going to try something with us. It was basically a setup from the beginning.

 

Don't take it the wrong way though, I'm pretty happy it happened. I mean, I got to see my wife have oral sex with another woman... what guy doesn't wanna see that? I also had a minor fetish of seeing her with another guy, so when he gave Disco oral sex that was pretty cool too. If I had to do it over again the only real thing I would change would be maybe find friends who were better looking - they weren't Ken and Barbie, they weren't Herman Munster... pretty average. Who wouldn't want those fantasies fulfilled by the best looking people possible?

 

So, I hold no ill will towards them for "marking" us. They introduced us to a lifestyle of pleasure. The next couple we met as friends turned out to be swingers too - who knew there were so many of us? They did the exact same thing the first couple did, marked us for a try. They succeded too, thanks to my wife's love of alcohol and a natural itch for a woman's touch.

 

All in all I have no complaints on our early years as swingers. It was basically my wife getting oral sex from other women, giving oral sex to other women, and occasionally getting oral sex from another man.

 

It is in the later years that I find distaste in the situation. You see, the normal thing I would think would happen would be to dabble at first, get your feet wet. Then you'd talk about this with your partner and set ground rules, rules which could be bent or broken or altered altogether at later dates as desire rises and falls, new people are met, new fantasies are laid out. Ultimately I believe Swinging to be a dynamic rather than static thing, one that changes with age, weight gain or loss, sexual ability changing, and a host of other factors.

 

You see, the situation has remained static. We are still at the level of her getting and giving oral sex to women. Rarely am I invited to join the fun - I have, I won't lie. It has been really sporadic and only one time have I had the "fun" turned on to me (where I received). Usually the best it gets is I give the other lady oral sex... fun in its own right, but who are we kidding, we all want the full course meal. It's been six years and we're still playing the beginner games.

 

When we talk, or duing sexual sessions between us alone, she's open to all kinds of things. We've discussed everything from meeting couples to bringing a single male in for a one time only thing (I suggested one time only simply to fulfill my fantasy and never pressure her again). In all these things, she is open while we're talking about it. When the rubber meets the road and we've found a couple on SLS we would entertain the idea of meeting, she usually backs out EVEN IF IT'S HER IDEA TO MEET THEM. It'll begin with a comment about how good they look, or an email from them... she or I will reply, get a conversation going, you know how it works. When it comes to the "meet?" part of the conversation, she'll entertain it on paper but turns down the idea when we discuss it as a serious option.

 

I don't get it!

 

This is not to say we've never met couples/singles. We've met six or eight couples and two single females. It's gotten to the point that I can predict exactly what will happen. If it's a single female, we'll meet, they'll flirt, I'm left to buy drinks. We all go back to our place for more drinks, the two flirt and kiss and what have you, the clothes come off, and those two go after it like she's a single woman again - I'm left in the cold except that I can touch/do whatever with Disco.

 

If it's a couple, she'll meet only if they're very attractive. I can't quite seem to get it into my wife's head that there's REAL people in this lifestyle, not just Pamela Anderson (bad example, she has Hep C) and her lookalikes, and real people probably fuck better anyways. At any rate, she'll play it cool untill the other woman shows a sign of interest, then see above. Meanwhile, me and the other guy are left watching and doing things with our girl only. Does he want to do things with Disco? You bet. The ones that have tried anything beyond oral sex... party's over. If I try anything at all, period, with the other girl, party's over.

 

It's maddening.

 

Where is the natural progression of things?

 

Why does it seem to me like the whole show is centered on my wife, her wants, her fun, her everything? When do I get a little consideration?

 

I mean, it's been six years, you would think by now that we'd have progressed from the beginners basics. And it's contradictory, she'll be open to anything when we just discuss it but it doesn't get put into practice.

 

Yes, for those of you who are keen eyed and memoried, I am making a fool out of myself by posting this. Not a month ago I posted a post about how we both want in on the action. That post was at her behest. This is more evidence of the "anything is ok" in theory but "nothing is ok" in practice.

 

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Can you explain what you mean when you say they "marked" you?

[Tybee Swing 286]

I'm sick and tired of the way things are going for us as a swinging couple.

 

Why does it seem to me like the whole show is centered on my wife, her wants, her fun, her everything? When do I get a little consideration?

 

I mean, it's been six years, you would think by now that we'd have progressed from the beginners basics. And it's contradictory, she'll be open to anything when we just discuss it but it doesn't get put into practice.

 

I don't blame you for ranting. The thing is, there's a big double standard and you're getting the very short end of the stick.

 

I believe that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and vice versa. I, personally, would not get what I want without offering the same equivalent activity to my hubby. You have the right to expect the same.

 

I'd say everything to your wife that you said here, in the quote. About her saying she's open to anything, but then in reality shutting it down, tell her that actions speak louder than words. It's time for you to see some action, not just get double-talk from her. If she just can't let you be an equal in this, she's not ready to swing.

 

Best wishes to you!

[Guest Fringeswinger]

Wow. In a way, nice problem to have, but I can see your point. I'd probably give my right nut to see my wife make out with another woman.

 

Does she know how you feel? Does she care? A reasonable person, and especially a person in love, would strive for fairness and the happiness of the other partner. To do otherwise is selfish and uncaring.

 

I'd lay it out for her. Its not fair and you don't like it. She gets to play by her rules and you are left wanting. She's being a teenybopper cock tease. That's BS. She deserves to know how you feel and that you are frustrated with the "situation". Try not to make it personal (an almost impossible task). If she really loves you she will see your side. Otherwise, she's just being a cold you-know-what.

 

Sorry to be so blunt but I feel for ya, man.

[discoandvyper 15]

Can you explain what you mean when you say they "marked" you?

Sure Julie. What I mean is that they were a swinging couple before we met them. We met them the first time for drinks and whatnot. Halfway through the meeting they both went to the back yard. My wife and I didn't think anything of this.

 

What they were doing in the backyard was working out how to get us into bed. See, at the time we're not swingers. They were, they were working out how to not make us swingers but at least... you know, get us naked (or more probably, get Disco naked and I'm along for the ride) and have their way with us/Disco/whatever they could get.

 

Marked for sex, basically.

[good times 991]

Everyone is not cut out to be a swinger, in fact very few people are. Maybe Disco just isn't cut out for it. I have to say that were I in your situation, I would have either worked this out with my wife or called it quits within a month or two. I am just thinking if she hasn't become comfortable with you playing with another women after six years, I doubt if she ever will.

[JP51 40]

I have to agree with other posters, as the old saying goes, time to fish or cut bait...in this case after years and years I think you know the answer of you getting beyound her doing her bi thing... not going to happen. This is of couse assuming you have done all the talking, and meeting, etc... one idea, from my evil mind, is maybe offer up doing a MFM meeting (where you set it up and run the action), and see where she goes with that idea. The question is have you been to passive in stating your needs? From your comments I think now...sorry my thoughts run all over the place on this one! Like I said at the start, time to fish or cut bait, your not happy with the current state of affairs.

[Chicup 42]

Saddly (for us) the girls only playing is a VERY common method of swinging these days with the younger couples and its quite frusterating for us being Mrs. Chicup is only mildly bi and enjoys men better. Likewise I enjoy watching her with a woman, but its not my main thing.

 

I always thought it was the men who liked this relationship in swinging. Their wives could be bi and fullfill that fantasy while staying 'pure' from the touch of other men. As you said, a sort of beginner swinging. Perhaps I'm wrong in this assesment as a rule and the women have a lot to do with it.

 

The fact that your wife is ok with other women but not men touching her makes me wonder what the issue is. Does your wife just not find the other men attractive? Does she think its wrong to have sex with another man? Is she really more of a closet lesbian?

 

There are lots of 'what iffs' and you need to ask her what the deal is. Why doesn't she want to be with another man?

[NandTfromCA 84]

You’re obviously an intelligent guy so any advice will probably only be emphasizing what you already have some ideas about.

 

It sounds like you are afraid that if you put your foot down concerning your needs, she will either say, “Fine, where done swinging altogether” or “Fine, I’ll go do it on my own and you can find a new wife/gf”. But at the same time, it is driving you nuts doing business as usual.

 

If she is enjoying things how they are, and you haven’t asserted your needs, why would she change? Fair or not fair is not much of a concern to me. What is important is y’alls happiness. If you guys are doing something that is making one of you unhappy, then change it. Discuss the alternatives and make a decision.

 

If after a discussion one of you flip-flops on what you said, have another discussion about flip-flopping and decide on alternatives around that (ie. “If you get pissed because I did something that you said was ok before, then we need to stop involving ourselves in that kind of situation”).

[discoandvyper 15]

You know NandT, and the rest of you for that matter, I've weighed the alternatives. One alternative is that we quit swinging altogether. I'm not happy with that alternative, not one bit. I was in a swinging relationship before I was with Disco, and it wasn't all that long into this relationship with Disco that we began playing around such as it is. It's not an integral part of the relationship, not by any means, but it's not something I wish to give up - especially since I've never enjoyed the fruit of the endeavour. Maybe it's selfish, but I'd only consider dropping it AFTER I've had at least one fling go in such a way that I get something out of it too.

 

Alternative to that would be playing without my wife, but that's not really a prime solution. Part of the thrill of the chase, so to speak, is seeing my wife in action from a third person perspective, doing it with her, doing it as something we as a couple do. I still find my wife unbelievably sexy so doing it without her in favor of some woman I don't really know well isn't what I'm after. Surely you guys here know the thrill in seeing your wife/girlfriend involved sexually with someone else. I wouldn't call myself a Cuckolding fan, not by any means, but seeing her in action is a speical thrill. I'm just wishing for more me-time in the mix. Also, a "single" guy in this lifesyle... well, you all know how thrilling that role is.

 

Someone above (apologies for not remembering usernames) asked if she may be a closet lesbian. From her actions you'd wonder so, wouldn't you! However, to answer your question, I'm pretty sure she's not. She talks at length about how she could never give up men, how she loves dick, and how this guy or that guy caught her attention earlier on a given day. Sure, I accept this could be her "cover story" she's using to keep me from finding out her secret. There's also the fact that before she married her first husband she had been with more women than men. There's also the fact that she was with more women than men during her first marriage and during the marriage she is now in with me. Hmm... maybe you are on to something. Still, I must take her implied word for it that she's not. I'll keep it in the back of my mind from now on, how's that sound?

 

I suppose the only real thing I can do is sit her down and lay it out: I want to swing too, I want to be involved, and I want to meet couples with you, and have all of us have sex of some sort while preferring full swap. There is so much in this lifestyle we have not done, so much that I yearn for. This beginner's stuff is getting really old with me, to the point that I am starting to get reluctant to search for people to meet with for fear that she'll turn it into yet another thing that I have burning in the back of my brain that I'm not happy with.

 

Thanks for letting me rant here. I'll continue to check the thread for more people's input. I feel pretty safe making these posts because Disco never comes here, and I doubt anyone on SLS is going to send her a message about this thread when she's on there.

[ohash01 20]

Just sit down and really talk to her. Try to get to the bottom of the WHYs. An "I don't want to" is probably not going to satisfy you at this point. Is it jealousy? Is it fear of an STD? Is it that she's not attracted to the men in the couples? Is she really truly bi and just needs to be with another woman to feel satisfied, but isn't really into "swinging"? Talk to her. It may be uncomfortable. She may get gumpy and raise the level of her voice (which is what I do when I get uncomfortable), but it's better that you guys figure this out now than for you to continue to fester and begin to feel resentful.

 

BF and I have talked in depth about why (for right now) it's not comfortable for us to have full intercourse with others...but we are also the dreaded "beginner swingers" mentioned above. Granted, I've also never made out with another girl and left him out in the cold, but that is our personal choice.

 

As for the lesbian thing...I doubt it. In today's age, especially in Ohio, she'd probably just be a lesbian if that's what she is. She probably would have given up on men completely. After all, Columbus has the 2nd highest gay/lesbian population...right after San Fran.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Sure Julie. What I mean is that they were a swinging couple before we met them. We met them the first time for drinks and whatnot. Halfway through the meeting they both went to the back yard. My wife and I didn't think anything of this.

 

What they were doing in the backyard was working out how to get us into bed. See, at the time we're not swingers. They were, they were working out how to not make us swingers but at least... you know, get us naked (or more probably, get Disco naked and I'm along for the ride) and have their way with us/Disco/whatever they could get.

 

Marked for sex, basically.

 

Did you know they were swingers? And was that why you had met them? Or had you met them for some other reason?

[discoandvyper 15]

Did you know they were swingers? And was that why you had met them? Or had you met them for some other reason?

At the point where we met them and our first experience happened we didn't know they were swingers, and thus hadn't met them for that purpose.

 

I'm a computer guy by trade. I held at that time (and still today) a pretty senior position in a fortune 500 company, doubly impressive since I was very young in age. (ok, so I'm tooting my own horn... ) I still enjoy basic PC repair and troubleshooting and did at the time as well. Up untill we had met I only knew him and his wife through a Yahoo Chatroom that no longer exists now that the User Created Rooms are done with. At this point we lived about 35 miles from each other, and one weekend he had a problem with two of his PCs at the same time. Our goal was to meet to put a name to the face, get busy fixing the two computers (one had a bad power supply, the other one had a burned up display adapter), and have some fun. After all, we were friends in this chatroom, and that's the primary thing we had in mind (or so I thought we had in mind) when we decided to get together for the weekend.

 

Like I said, I have no problem with what happened that weekend. It was the first time in my life I had witnessed two attractive women have sex together, and that's something I had wanted to see since junior high years. I had seen two women together before, but frankly it was with my ex wife and I was looking forward to see two women I'd like to see nude together. I'm happy my wife gave me that memory, but by this time six years later I'm looking for a little more.

[Tybee Swing 286]

Alternative to that would be playing without my wife, but that's not really a prime solution. Part of the thrill of the chase, so to speak, is seeing my wife in action from a third person perspective, doing it with her, doing it as something we as a couple do. I still find my wife unbelievably sexy so doing it without her in favor of some woman I don't really know well isn't what I'm after. Surely you guys here know the thrill in seeing your wife/girlfriend involved sexually with someone else.

 

I understand. My hubby and I both enjoy very much doing this with each other, and seeing each other, too. Like you said, it's a special thrill.

 

She talks at length about how she could never give up men, how she loves dick, and how this guy or that guy caught her attention earlier on a given day. Sure, I accept this could be her "cover story" she's using to keep me from finding out her secret. There's also the fact that before she married her first husband she had been with more women than men. There's also the fact that she was with more women than men during her first marriage and during the marriage she is now in with me. Hmm... maybe you are on to something. Still, I must take her implied word for it that she's not. I'll keep it in the back of my mind from now on, how's that sound?

 

Just a thought for you - I wonder if her thinking is, "I already have a man who takes care of my needs that way, I don't need any more of those". Maybe the girls are the "strange" that she doesn't get in your relationship since she's bi, so that's all she thinks she needs in swinging?

 

The reason I wonder this: I have read this sort of thing sometimes in people's profiles. People saying something like, "No men, that's already covered, just want girls". Maybe this is how she thinks. Of course, you'd have to ask her! Let us know how the talking goes, and good luck.

[EvilMJ 65]

I think the best advice has been given, you really need to have a heart to heart with her on this and let her know what is bothering you, what your needs are, and what she feels comfortable with. If this keeps up it is only going to get worse and I think she really needs to know how much of an issue this has become for you.

 

Good luck Vyper and keep us posted

[Sweet_Candy 54]

Wow 6 yrs of watching your wife play with other girls sounds boring and selfish. Honestly you two sound like the couples we try to avoid. GOG play is not soft swap in our opinion if mostly all you're doing is watching and occasionally getting a crumb. How would your wife feel if all you wanted out of swinging was guy on guy play and very little fun for her? We find it interesting that men are willing to sit back and allow their wife’s to play with other woman but aren't willing to demand equal opportunity for themselves as well? Someone mentioned what you two are doing is prevalent amongst the younger couples and we've seen it as well however for us unless you're exchanging partners for certain types of sexual activity you 're not swapping.

Watching two people of the same-sex make out can get boring quickly. It's hard to believe you've let this go on for 6 yrs. Good luck in trying to modify this behavior after such a long time of doing.

[GotBatteries? 15]

'Honestly you two sound like the couples we try to avoid.'

Ditto. Like the plaugue. We all but run for the hills, waving our arms and screaming in terror.

Wives like this are the *biggest* reason I list myself as straight. I can get GOG anyday of the week *shrug* its pretty easy. The thrill WE get out of swinging is finding couples that are compatable with both of us. (Mr is straight but he's a big fan of at least liking the other guy, ya know, since the other guy is going to do naughty things with me.)

If I, for a SECOND, think that the other girl is more into GOG play, I call a complete halt to any and all action. I have had a wife flip out because she didnt realize I was going to touch her man. She was just as you describe yours, very much into the GOG business and was apparently shocked that as bi-chick I might actually want to be with her man. *rolling eyes* I mean, duh.

But hey, its really just a discussion ya gotta have. There is no sense in playing if you aren't getting what you want out of it.

[playtime4two 15]

for all couples in the lifestyle, discussion of what limits each partner expects is the number one subject. we are soft swingers, and stick to it. should a situation come up that takes us beyond our personal boundaries, we stop and talk about it. right then, right there. don't let one facet of your marriage ruin the parts that work well for you. as far as being "lured in" by the other couple, we would have preferred some discussion with them first. we never assume.

[TNT 1,155]

Your situation is a classic example of why Ted and I always say...If you're not into it for BOTH of you, it's not going to work. Resentment will set in eventually.

 

One-sided play can work but, it will only work when it is the only thing that both partners want. For one half of a couple to say/imply/practice the...I can do this, I want to try this but... you can't, I don't want you to do this or that, you can only do.....You ARE going to have problems eventually.

 

If watching your wife with other women was the only thing that you ever wanted out of swinging and it was the only thing she wanted out of swinging...no problems. Obviously, this is not the case for you. You want more than you are getting and possibly more than your wife is comfortable with and/or willing to give.

 

It seems to me, after reading your post that there was no discussion in the beginning as to what both of you wanted out of swinging. Did you discuss with your wife that GOG play was good, you enjoyed watching but that at some point you would want in on the action and that you would want to play yourself?

 

For any half of a couple to go into swinging agreeing to a certain way of play but "thinking" that eventually their partner will come around to their way of thinking/change their mind about what is okay and not okay ...is not a good way to start. EVERY THING MUST be discussed and laid on the table as to what each partner's expectations, wants and desires are. Both partners need to know what the other is and is not comfortable with, wants to try, doesn't want to try, can do, can't do...etc. .

 

In your case, I'd advise stopping any type of swinging/playing until all the cards are laid on the table and BOTH of you are happy with what you decide to do and not do and neither of you are going to feel like you're being left out or not getting your fair share of the fun.

 

 

Teresa

[discoandvyper 15]

I must not have stressed it enough, TNT. We do talk about things. We talk about possibly inviting a couple over/out that we saw on SLS and liked the profile of. We talk about her finding that lucky single male and fulfilling my fantasy.

 

The problem in that lies in the fact that she'll discuss anything with me and agree to most if not all I'm saying. Then, when it comes time to put agreements into action she with very few exceptions backs out. The only times she doesn't back out is when the majority of the discussed activities center on her. It's gotten to the point that I am conditioned to know that if she didn't back out of a meeting, she'll killjoy the meeting when it gets sexual and either I try to get involved or the other guy gets involved. So much as a his hand on her back stops the encounter. I am Pavlov's dog in this. I have been taught this through action.

 

So you see, there's plenty of talk going on. The problem is a 180 degree turn by my wife once it's time to stop talking and start doing.

[Spoomonkey 421]

In your case, I'd advise stopping any type of swinging/playing until all the cards are laid on the table and BOTH of you are happy with what you decide to do and not do and neither of you are going to feel like you're being left out or not getting your fair share of the fun.

 

If you talk about it - she agrees with you - and then conditions you to the point where you expect that she will constantly back out, unless the fun "centers on her" - then what you really need to do is cut TNT advise down to this:

 

In your case, I'd advise stopping any type of swinging/playing

 

It sounds to me like you are in a "take it or leave it" situation. The only advice we can give you boils down to three basic ideas:

 

1. Talk (which you have done, to no avail)

2. Accept (which doesn't seem to be a palatable solution)

3. Quit (which seems even less palatable)

 

Unless she decides to put some weight behind her words, she is going to continue to take advantage of your misguided hope.

 

Spoomonkey

[Concupiscence 16]

If you have never told her specifically that you feel left out and are resentful of the fact that she ruins it for you, if anyone but the women get it on, then she may be assuming that you are getting enough fulfillment watching her and the other woman. You may need to accept that this is the end because if she is the least bit pissed at you about your needs then there are a million and one ways that she can "innocently" screw it up once you and another woman are ready for action. If nothing else find out what happens if you ask that there be no more girl on girl action just straight swap.

[TNT 1,155]

The problem in that lies in the fact that she'll discuss anything with me and agree to most if not all I'm saying. Then, when it comes time to put agreements into action she with very few exceptions backs out.

 

 

Then, she is not being honest with you or herself.

 

You do not tell someone that you are going to do something, then trun around and do the exact opposite. That's called lying.

 

Your wife needs to be totally honest about her feelings. If she does not want to meet with single men and/or couples then she has got to tell you that and stop agreeing to things that she has no intentions of doing.

 

Have you told her how upsetting this is to you?

 

Ask her why all the attention needs to be centered around her. Dose she feel that if you play with another woman that you will no longer be satisfied with her? Is seeing you with another woman just something that totally turns her off? Makes her jealous? What about the single men...does she just not want any other man but you? Is she afraid that you will have problems watching her with another man ?

 

You have got to find out why she keeps repeating the same behavior.

 

Even though you say you are talking...and you both may be listening to each other but...are you really hearing what the other is saying?

 

 

Teresa

[discoandvyper 15]

Over the weekend we attended a weenie roast at Disco's grandfather's house. The couple that turned us on to this site was there as well. Lots of kids, a bonfire, some beer, and lots of hot dogs. Good time. But, I digress.

 

During the cookout I pulled my wife off to the side (actually, around the antique outhouse) and had a little discussion with her about the state of the union.

 

Turns out that she's a little misguided in what she represents herself as. To those that need to know, she calls herself bi because she has me but she likes women (to those that don't need to know she calls herself straight and lets them think whatever they will).

 

The truth of the matter is that if I weren't around, we got divorced, I passed on, what have you where I am not involved anymore, she'd be a lesbian. She's into me, but no other guy. She's only "bi" in as much as I am still in the picture.

 

I informed her that that basically makes her a lesbian then, in my judgement. I also asked her why it took her six years to tell me this. She had no answer for it other than "I don't know".

 

Here's where it gets insidious.

 

Before I met my wife, she was pretty wild sexually. She'd been with at her best count something like 75 men (and boys, when she was a minor). I only just found this out during our conversation. I was led to believe that she'd been with more women than men in her lifetime, but such is not the case. Turns out that before she was with me she'd routinely have sex with multiple men per night if she was at a party. She'd also been with 10 or 15 women before she met me.

 

The insidious part is that I cannot tell which is which anymore. I cannot tell if she's serious about the closet lesbian part and not liking men, if she's just trying to shut me up, or if she's trying to prolong our current "swinging" situation, if you can call it swinging. After all, she obviously likes the way it's going now, so she'd have something in it to keep things as they are.

 

But, really, she stands to gain if we were to change. She'd add a whole new gender to her repertuar if she were to admit she still likes men. I cannot in good faith tell you that I believe her when she says "without (me) I'd be a lesbian" if she's had closer to 100 than 0 male partners in her life. After all, she has her stash of male porn on her hard drive and fantasizes about men while she masturbates (I've asked!).

 

It's confusing, I know. Imagine how long I've got to think about this before I come up with a real answer.

 

The good news is that she's agreed to try a couple where the man interacts with her sexually. Why, since this contradicts what she just told me, I don't know. Sure, I'm nervous she'll killjoy the meeting after she's done with the lady. Like I said, I've been trained to expect the worst possible scenario with her.

 

I guess this weekend, after the date, I'll know more and be able to post more about it.

[Spoomonkey 421]

I cannot tell if she's serious about the closet lesbian part and not liking men, if she's just trying to shut me up, or if she's trying to prolong our current "swinging" situation, if you can call it swinging.

 

I don't...

 

I call it opportunism. After all - it isn't a shared activity; it is her way or the highway. Swinging, as I understand it, involves consent and agreement and a mutual respect for both partners. This is just her chance to get it on with a girl while you are left holding the bag; your own bad...

 

My advice would be to cut it off. Wait until the weekend date - see how it plays out - and if somehow Zeus has decided to be kind - and she plays in a way that is fun for all (which includes you), re-evaluate with a smile on your face.

 

If not - back away.

 

Personally, it sounds like she is not being straight with you. I realize I am basing my asessment on one side of the story (a very dangerous thing) but if what you are saying is accurate, you are really being taken for a ride.

 

Spoomonkey

[Concupiscence 16]

The truth of the matter is that if I weren't around, we got divorced, I passed on, what have you where I am not involved anymore, she'd be a lesbian. She's into me, but no other guy. She's only "bi" in as much as I am still in the picture.

 

I informed her that that basically makes her a lesbian then, in my judgement. I also asked her why it took her six years to tell me this. She had no answer for it other than "I don't know".

 

.

 

Maybe you are safe and she trusted you to treat her well and provide a comfortable environment. Many times women will go with the guy who has a job and a sane life even if there is no mad passionate love to go along. Or maybe you were the first really good male lay she had had up to the point where you two were together. Maybe she didn't want to tell you that she was a lesbian for the most part because then you wouldn't marry her. Or maybe she really has no clue why she has done these things and you were the one solid thing for her to cling to. Make no mistake I am NOT trying to justify her actions, just possibly adding a little female perspective that is very likely WAY off base.

 

I noticed that you said that SHE would have sex with a guy this weekend, you did not mention if you were going to be with the other female. I hope everything turns out for the best.

[discoandvyper 15]

I noticed that you said that SHE would have sex with a guy this weekend, you did not mention if you were going to be with the other female. I hope everything turns out for the best.

There I go leaving untethered ends again... yes, the plan is for me to have interaction with his wife too. I really have a problem specifying things, don't I?

 

Anyways, cross your fingers and toes for me, and thanks for the well wishes.

[Gena 15]

We certainly hope things turn out well for you both!!

[Mr. Truelove 81]

It's hard for me to fathom a untrusting relationship with my wife. We are absolutely totally honest to eachother. It's not without it's hard feelings and pitfalls sometimes. But the nice part about it is, after we have these pitfalls we tend to come out even stronger than we were before. And thats because of Communication and honestly.

 

Now, I don't think that everyone necessarily has to live by my relationship rules. Obviously I think they're the best rules because, well if I didn't, I wouldn't use them. But I know many people that aren't honest with their significant others and seem to have perfectly happy marriages.

 

Looks like you need to make a choice. Are you ok with these doubts in eachothers honesty? If you are ok, then fine, move forward and play that game.

 

However if you are not ok with it, then my advice is to stop swinging altogether and work on your marriage a while. It's whatever you value more.

 

If it were me though I would stop and talk....and talk. You appear to still be learning new things about eachother. You should stop and explore that first. Life is long and there is plenty of time for playtime. And swinging will likely be more fun if you are in a happy relationship.

 

But hey, I'm an amateur in all regards, so take this advice with the best of wishes from me for your situation. And I hope it serves you well.

 

Mr. Truelove.

[kissyface 15]

Wow...I hope your weekend works out well for you both.

 

I would say you have been very very patient up until this point. It does sound like your wife has some underlaying issues with men.If she was a party girl up until you met her, she may have given herself "the stripper syndrome", where she comes to only see men in one light, not the best light usually. Woman may be safer for her.

 

That of course doesn't solve your problems. Up until now you guys have not been swinging. She has been the hot unicorn and you have been a forced voyeur. It sounds like it has bred resentment and frustration, hopefully it hasn't spilled into your vanilla life. But I can't really see how it wouldn't to some extent.

 

I think you guys are really really going to need to lay some firm ground rules and talk. If she really doesn't want to have sex with any other men, you don't want her to feel forced. In that case you need to talk about having threesomes where you get to have sex with both woman. It won't happen as much as a single female is of course much harder to find. I mean a Bi one, not a lesbian. If she isn't comfortable with that then I would put a halt to all outside activity.

 

Crossing my fingers for you guys!

 

Kissy

[NandTfromCA 84]

I hope the best for you.

 

Like Mr. Truelove said about the honesty thing, that is a real issue for us. If I got to a point where I didn't know which words to trust from my wife, that would be the signal of either the impending end of the relationship or the starting point of some serious repair work.

 

It seems like clear warning sirens are going off and you are ignoring them. It doesn’t mean that things are definitely going to turn out bad if you plow on forward, without tending to the underlying issues. It just means it’s likely. Maybe you will be lucky though.

 

Mr.

[ShellyM 0]

Hello. First of all, I don't know you personally. But it seems that she has a good man, and she is a lucky lady. Sometimes we don't see things when they are looking us right in the face, unfortunately. In my honest and true opinion (and I am not a trained counselor, this is completely a layman's opinion) I look at this and say that your relationship is really in trouble. I would say that if you two wish to stay together you need to be in some couple's counseling immediately. First of all, you can't really be in a relationship fully if you don't trust what she is telling you, and you don't feel like you really know her anymore. You just can't. You can go on, trying to pretend that things are okay....but eventually you will reach the point where you can't do it anymore. On the same token, if Disco is truly a lesbian than she needs to be honest so she can be happy as well! I mean, 2 happy homes are better than 1 miserable one. So, my advice is to seek counseling. She needs to decide what she wants. And you need to realize that you are worthy of happiness. You deserve to be happy, and so steps need to be taken to ensure that you both are able to be happy. You would rather leave a relationship as friends, than let things really go bad and leave as bitter enemies. So, that is my opinion. Best of luck to you.

[discoandvyper 15]

Shelly, you reiterate what I asked my wife to do a year ago. We've had some shaky times with each other and we've always made it through them together, but I'd rather never have the shaky time to begin with. I am of the impression that one can be in the lifestyle and be in marriage counseling at the same time. After all, there's more to a marriage than sexual relations with each other or even other people. While our sex life is something of an issue as it relates to playing with other people, our sex life together and our non-sex life together is pretty good. What I'm saying is that the only real problem we have together is A, the trusting what she says part, and B, the sex with others part. I think the two are related, but don't have to negate each other out. I may be wrong.

 

Anyways, for the news you all have been waiting on: We had our little fling this past weekend. Nothing major, no KEN AND BARBIE ROXXORED OUR BOXXORES. Instead, a couple came over we've played with before in as much as we were playing to begin with. The kids were gone, the people were pretty familiar. Everything was prime for what we were planning on.

 

We partied it up together for several hours, played cards, and if you know anything about me I steered it in my usual direction, towards sex! Everyone got naked, Disco began toying with the male of the other couple, and what would you know, she had sex with him.

 

THE GUY LASTED TWO MINUTES!!

 

Still, I thought it was amazing. She thought it was ok while it lasted. I can't blame the guy, after all Disco is the hottest woman on the friggin planet and she is rather ... "small" in the woman categories. Who can blame the guy for lasting two whole minutes?

 

I believe Disco when she says it'll be more routine, we'll just not be with that guy untill he can learn a little restraint. Or, she can teach him.

 

In the end, we broke new ground. Thanks for all your advice.

[discoandvyper 15]

I think it's time I replied...

 

Yes, I didn't go for men for a long time... my only real answers I can give are that I didn't know if Vyper would go ballistic if I did anything with them... I don't like men as well as I like women... I have Vyper and he's enough for me... and most men are terrible in bed...

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a woman who isnt good at giving oral sex...

 

I didn't really have any idea that Vyper wanted to see me with other men... he's talked about it but I didnt think he was serious... I always take sexual talk with a grain of salt... call me strange but my ex would come up with all kinds of strange things during sex talk... I didn't think Vyper was different than my ex... my fault...

 

I agreed to meet the couple because Vyper told me he really wanted to see what could happen with this couple again... I expected it to go how it always went before... when he touched me, Vyper's face lit up and I knew he was indeed serious about his request...

 

So... I guess... I have some thinking to do to see if I ever want to do that again... I realise he could have been overexcited so he didn't last long... but that may also be the role I'm expected to play for the rest of our time... I don't really know what to say to all of this...

[Concupiscence 16]

Disco,

 

Glad to see you chime in but it really doesn't matter what you say to us, it only matters what you say to Vyper.

 

Vyper,

Once again you don't mention how it went with the other woman. Did you enjoy yourself?

[discoandvyper 15]

I didn't tell you, did I Concupiscence?

 

It was ok, though I didn't get much into it. We were still in the oral sex stages when Disco and he "broke the ice". I enjoyed seeing Disco being taken by another man so much that I ... "ended prematurely". The other lady didn't take offense, thank god.

 

Though, to be honest, I didn't really care to be with her. She's pretty and she knows what she's doing sexually, but my fantasy has always really been to see Disco with another man. Sure, getting some strange was nice enough, but I could have foregone it all just to see Disco do her thing.

 

This isn't to say that I'll never break the ice myself and have intercourse with another woman. I know Disco wants to see me do that - she's expressed the interest longer than I've expressed interest in seeing her with another man. I'll do it as soon as I can to give Disco what she wanted, but on a personal note I feel no pressure to perform since it's not in my wish list.

 

I guess Disco's one score up on me now. Time for Vyper to even the score! And I have my own personal wish list handy of who I would want to even the score with.

[ShellyM 0]

I think it's time I replied...

 

Yes, I didn't go for men for a long time... my only real answers I can give are that I didn't know if Vyper would go ballistic if I did anything with them... I don't like men as well as I like women... I have Vyper and he's enough for me... and most men are terrible in bed...

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a woman who isnt good at giving oral sex...

 

I didn't really have any idea that Vyper wanted to see me with other men... he's talked about it but I didnt think he was serious... I always take sexual talk with a grain of salt... call me strange but my ex would come up with all kinds of strange things during sex talk... I didn't think Vyper was different than my ex... my fault...

 

I agreed to meet the couple because Vyper told me he really wanted to see what could happen with this couple again... I expected it to go how it always went before... when he touched me, Vyper's face lit up and I knew he was indeed serious about his request...

 

So... I guess... I have some thinking to do to see if I ever want to do that again... I realise he could have been overexcited so he didn't last long... but that may also be the role I'm expected to play for the rest of our time... I don't really know what to say to all of this...

 

Girl, I just hope you are happy. Whatever you decide as a couple, I hope you both find happiness.

[Gena 15]

ahh and i missed it

 

 

 

 

Glad things worked out for you guys

[TNT 1,155]

Everyone got naked, Disco began toying with the male of the other couple, and what would you know, she had sex with him.

 

THE GUY LASTED TWO MINUTES!!

 

Still, I thought it was amazing. She thought it was ok while it lasted. I can't blame the guy, after all Disco is the hottest woman on the friggin planet and she is rather ... "small" in the woman categories. Who can blame the guy for lasting two whole minutes?

 

I believe Disco when she says it'll be more routine, we'll just not be with that guy untill he can learn a little restraint. Or, she can teach him.

 

 

It was ok, though I didn't get much into it. We were still in the oral sex stages when Disco and he "broke the ice". I enjoyed seeing Disco being taken by another man so much that I ... "ended prematurely". The other lady didn't take offense, thank god.

 

 

Ummmm, that's kind of like the pot calling the kettle black :rollseyes

 

Maybe MFM threesomes would be better suited for you as it seems you derive a great deal of pleasure out of watching Disco....in a foursome situation, the other female deserves just as much attention from you as your wife is getting from the other man if the situation is one where it's agreed upon to be a full swap...if the situation is one where you've discussed with the other couple that you just want to watch, everyone is in agreement, then all is good.

 

However, it does seem that you two are starting to communicate and listen more to each other and that is a good thing

 

 

Teresa

[DBL D 120]

From Vyper:

 

There I go leaving untethered ends again... yes, the plan is for me to have interaction with his wife too. I really have a problem specifying things, don't I?

 

Anyways, cross your fingers and toes for me, and thanks for the well wishes.

 

It was ok, though I didn't get much into it. We were still in the oral sex stages when Disco and he "broke the ice". I enjoyed seeing Disco being taken by another man so much that I ... "ended prematurely". The other lady didn't take offense, thank god.

 

Though, to be honest, I didn't really care to be with her. She's pretty and she knows what she's doing sexually, but my fantasy has always really been to see Disco with another man. Sure, getting some strange was nice enough, but I could have foregone it all just to see Disco do her thing.

 

This isn't to say that I'll never break the ice myself and have intercourse with another woman. I know Disco wants to see me do that - she's expressed the interest longer than I've expressed interest in seeing her with another man. I'll do it as soon as I can to give Disco what she wanted, but on a personal note I feel no pressure to perform since it's not in my wish list.

 

I guess Disco's one score up on me now. Time for Vyper to even the score! And I have my own personal wish list handy of who I would want to even the score with.

 

From Disco:

 

I think it's time I replied...

 

Yes, I didn't go for men for a long time... my only real answers I can give are that I didn't know if Vyper would go ballistic if I did anything with them... I don't like men as well as I like women... I have Vyper and he's enough for me... and most men are terrible in bed...

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a woman who isnt good at giving oral sex...

 

I didn't really have any idea that Vyper wanted to see me with other men... he's talked about it but I didnt think he was serious... I always take sexual talk with a grain of salt... call me strange but my ex would come up with all kinds of strange things during sex talk... I didn't think Vyper was different than my ex... my fault...

 

I agreed to meet the couple because Vyper told me he really wanted to see what could happen with this couple again... I expected it to go how it always went before... when he touched me, Vyper's face lit up and I knew he was indeed serious about his request...

 

So... I guess... I have some thinking to do to see if I ever want to do that again... I realise he could have been overexcited so he didn't last long... but that may also be the role I'm expected to play for the rest of our time... I don't really know what to say to all of this...

 

I had tried to respond earlier than this but had some computer problems. Had I done so, I would have sided with Vyper on these issues. Having read how he reacted to being with a different woman, I'm now totally confused as to what he wants and what games each of you are playing with each other. I for one wouldn't stand for dishonesty. There's so much more I want to say but will basically end up saying what others have: I would absolutely stop swinging, if that's what you call it, until you get things understood between the two of you. If this were my situation, that's what "we'd" do. It's a no-brainer! 6 years for THIS? George Harrison said that "All things must pass"...so should this if it's the best you can do. It's soooo much better to be open about what you want. Not every couple sees eye to eye on these matters but they don't go through it this way and stay in the lifestyle.

 

6 YEARS?

 

Male D

[NandTfromCA 84]

…I'm now totally confused as to what he wants and what games each of you are playing with each other…It's soooo much better to be open about what you want…6 YEARS?

Dito

 

I spent way too much time trying to write a response and finally had to give up.

 

All I have is; dishonesty = distrust = relationship turmoil = unhappiness. You wanna be happy? Be honest (start with yourselves, then move to each other, then work your way to everyone else around you).

 

Good luck!

 

Mr.

[discoandvyper 15]

After... what's it been now? Two weeks? Something like that. Anyways, after approximately two weeks of talking about the incident, our individual desires, what we'd like from each other... you know, talking over pretty much everything, we've come to some conclusions.

 

First and foremost, we love each other. This means we don't need extras to fulfill anything in the other person. We are willing, capable, and desireing of each other that we don't need more to complete the picture.

 

We have settled in on the fact that Disco is bisexual and desires sexual contact with other women, which has untill now been fulfilled in her through our misadventures in swinging. This doesn't need to stop.

 

We have settled in on the fact that Vyper likes to see her with other women, but wishes things would go further than just the two women playing. This was fulfilled about two weeks ago, and even though it wasn't the greatest episode in swinging history it is now stored as a favored memory on at least Vyper's part. Vyper believes he could keep this memory burning well enough to satisfy his desire to see Disco with other men for some time. Not forever, but enough that she doesn't need to rush right out and do it again.

 

Disco has little desire for other men for reasons she's not quite expained to satisfaction, but since she does not want to explain it more that's the best we can do for now. However, since she knows now that Vyper's desire to see her with other men is a truth and not a fiction like she was used to with her ex, her love of Vyper will translate on her interacting with men more often just to make him happy. It's not something she's abhorring, she just didn't feel the want enough to make her take action on her own. She will now do this just because she wants to make me happy.

 

In turn, Disco has a fantasy of seeing Vyper with other women. Don't get me wrong, getting a little strange is fun. I just had no real push to do it. Much like how Disco wasn't abhorring it, just didn't feel the need, Vyper doesn't turn the idea down. It's more a giving to her thing than a getting for him. It'll be performed knowing that she's enjoying it very much.

 

We are both young, relative to the average swinger, and we're going to make our mistakes. We believe that we can work through the mistakes, correcting them, and turn out better in our relationship. Neither of us want to give up swinging, so our best bet is to read boards like this one carefully and ask as many questions if we can. So, if you find us asking an annoying amount of questions please understand that we're still pretty new to this even though we've been "in the business" for several years.

 

And that's what we've come up with. She does it to please him, he does it to please her.

[JP51 40]

You two seem to be on the right track, more will follow of that I am sure. My only comment...drop all references to score cards...this is not a we have to be even game...heck do what is fun and remember in baseball, a batting 300 will get you in the hall of fame! So, just be happy!!

[discoandvyper 15]

I guess it all boils down to the fact that we'd like to reconcile the past and go from here. Smile smile

[ShellyM 0]

I guess it all boils down to the fact that we'd like to reconcile the past and go from here. Smile smile

 

Good for you. I have been married for 15 years, and I will tell you that its full of ups and downs. If you can hang in there and come through this together your relationship will be even stronger for it. Just have patience with her, and love her. There may be reasons she doesn't want to face right now as to why she has issues with men....and these things take time and love to deal with. The best of luck to you both.

[She_n_Jaybee 15]

Wow! Just today I decided to check out some of the threads I've bypassed and this one is fantastic! Just watching the progression of events and the advice and experience passed back and forth much better than anything offered on TV! Sincerely thank you Vyper for the wonderful chronicling of all this and Disco for your contributions. Also a big thumbs up to all the great people who have contributed.

 

We have a few similarities at least in our approach to swinging. She is primarily in it for the women. Say's that she has no desire for any man other than the one she has. In most of our encounters there has been some play for me with the other woman and her with the other man, up to full sex. Generally, she'll downplay her experience with the other man afterwards. Personally, I think it's instinctual response for a woman to protect her man's ego. I'm not complaining. I get to watch her with another woman, I get to give oral to another woman (usually, although She is much better, judging by results), a personal favorite, and I go to sleep knowing that she has truly been satisfied in a way I couldn't accomplish by myself.

 

We seldom drink when we play. When she does drink enough to really loosen up, she's much more likely to initiate things, but sometimes with people we might not have considered otherwise.

 

As for the "lasting 2 minutes" issue, join the club. First time watching She with another woman, I was finished before they really got started. First time I was with another woman while she was with another man, same result. I've learned to pace myself, get past that pesky orgasm without achieving it. Once at that point, I can last much longer. But there's always a few moments of walking a very fine line.

[LOL_OMG 130]

OKAY, we've been gone from the boards for awhile....partly due to some musical commitments, partly because I had swingersboard burnout.

 

IMO this situation is, what you call it.....erm....complicated! I've read through all 4 pages. Is it possible that you both have some "issues"? Disco has acknowledged to having LOTs of male lovers, but she has also stated that it's rare a man can satisfy her. She much prefers a woman. Vyper says that his fantasy is to watch her with another guy, and even tho some other guy only lasted 2 minutes....he got off on it. Then there's the whole Disco wants to see Vyper with another woman, but she backs off when meeting another couple.

 

YIKEs - to sum it up, and I could be wrong (frequently am):

 

1. She wants women to please her and to see Vyper with another woman

 

2. HE wants to watch her with another guy

 

Might I suggest a FMF and a strap-on? I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, just figuring out a possible way this could work...

 

Oh and BTW, what's up with talking in 3rd person?

[Baloo8280 15]

It is very important to talk to her about this. Let her know that you want to do a full swap and that you want to be included. Me and my husband are swingers looking for another couple, but we talk about everything that is going on, especially if something is wrong. the key is communication.

[Lumina 16]

Disco has little desire for other men for reasons she's not quite expained to satisfaction, but since she does not want to explain it more that's the best we can do for now. However, since she knows now that Vyper's desire to see her with other men is a truth and not a fiction like she was used to with her ex, her love of Vyper will translate on her interacting with men more often just to make him happy. It's not something she's abhorring, she just didn't feel the want enough to make her take action on her own. She will now do this just because she wants to make me happy.

 

In turn, Disco has a fantasy of seeing Vyper with other women. Don't get me wrong, getting a little strange is fun. I just had no real push to do it. Much like how Disco wasn't abhorring it, just didn't feel the need, Vyper doesn't turn the idea down. It's more a giving to her thing than a getting for him. It'll be performed knowing that she's enjoying it very much.

 

....

 

And that's what we've come up with. She does it to please him, he does it to please her.

So what I'm getting here is that neither of you are really gung-ho about being with opposite sex playmates, but will do it to please the other. (I'm confused b/c in the OP it seemed as if Vyper really wanted to be with other women.)

 

But if that's the case then sorry, but I'd sure as hell not want to be the couple you're playing with. We want to play with people who want to play with us, not just "don't abhor" it. Blech. It sounds as if you'd each be taking one for the team.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

So what I'm getting here is that neither of you are really gung-ho about being with opposite sex playmates, but will do it to please the other. (I'm confused b/c in the OP it seemed as if Vyper really wanted to be with other women.)

 

But if that's the case then sorry, but I'd sure as hell not want to be the couple you're playing with. We want to play with people who want to play with us, not just "don't abhor" it. Blech. It sounds as if you'd each be taking one for the team.

 

I agree Lumina. Can you imagine how un-fun and unfair it is for the other couple because you're both just going through the motions for the other person? Please decide what you do or don't want to do before getting others involved.

 

Pepper