Religion and swinging. What are your beliefs?

[dayhiker 83]

Hi mulder,

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm being really blessed by all the Christians that have told me in the last few months that they are free sexual as long as they express that sexuality in love and honor for God. When I told my pastors what I believed they told me I'd not find anyone who knows their Bible that believed as I did. Yet I'm finding many Christians who know their Bible are indeed expressing their sexuality with joy in the Holy Spirit.

 

I'm on the road just as you are. So I pray you make it thru your procrastination issue.

dayhiker

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

dayhiker said:

Hi mulder,

When I told my pastors what I believed they told me I'd not find anyone who knows their Bible that believed as I did. dayhiker

 

That's just sad. In order to fully understand any bible passage you need to look at it taking the original languages, the cultural context, and the overall message of the Bible in consideration.

 

One verse says "Judas went out and hanged himself" another says "Go and do ye likewise." Obviously those are taken out of context and aren't meant like that. For centuries church leaders have been using that same technique to justify their own opinions.

 

One old testament oddity comes to mind. Sorry I don't remember exactly where this is located and I'm too lazy today to actually do research but, the passage asks the rhetorical question "Is there flavor in the white of an egg?"

 

I like egg white omelettes and I think there's a lot of flavor in the white of an egg, but the answer they're obviously looking for is "NO". Maybe this is a mistranslation. Maybe eggs tasted different 4000 years ago. Maybe that phrase had some cultural meaning that we don't understand today. I'm sure linguists are going to have ulcers trying to figure out why when things are really good we call them bad or wicked.

 

As a recovering fundamentalist myself, I have no idea how to get fundamentalists to start thinking about this stuff and stop swallowing church tradition as the Law of God.

 

All I can suggest is this, If you're a christian swinger, don't tell your Pastor.

 

If he agrees with you he wont be able to openly agree with you anyway because it would be a career ender for him. If he doesn't agree with you. you most likely wont be able to change his mind and you're letting yourself in for a "Come to Jesus Meeting."

 

As I see it the best course is to study these things among ourselves until the opportunity arises to start our own fellowships. Laurie and I are still studying and wrestling with the options.

 

Thanks, Y'all

[MulderNScully 19]

I plan not to, however I would like to one day write a book(s) to maybe bring the issues close to home, but I have a feeling it won't be necessary. People are starting to get the message and realize it (current sexual attitudes) don't match up to realistic views. Believers are a bit smarter and savvy than before.

 

Watch the P.O.V. documentary "The Education of Shelby Knox". Is/was a Christian girl who saw a need when her class mates were getting wrong information about STDs and sex. She joined to get comprehensive sex ed in her schools in Lubbock, Tx, but it was denied. Turns out she had the right information later down the road; kids came home infected with HIV and the parents were livid with the school board for their "abstinence only" based teaching in the classes.

 

Just goes to show when a few get the message what it will do in the end. I only pray for those too blinded to see to wake up.

[NewFrontier 15]

I am catholic, but i try not to think too hard about the transgressions of my religion. Catechism and organized mass is not for me, and much of what is written in the bible I take my own interpretation of in order make it work for my life. Jesus was a very forward thinker in his time - especially for his views regarding women. I try to imagine what his take would be on things if he were here on earth today, and remember the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you .....

[intuition897 2,179]

Jesus was a very forward thinker in his time - especially for his views regarding women. I try to imagine what his take would be on things if he were here on earth today, and remember the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you .....

 

I absolutely agree. I wonder that they didn't depict Jesus more realistically in the paintings and stained glass windows: with a big 'ole red hand-print on His forehead. It must have been frustrating having to deal with people who insisted on taking your words out of context or misunderstanding what you're saying because of their selfish agendas.

[WesternSwing 504]

As my good Mormon neighbors pointed out, and the reason they are not attending church as often as they used to "too many are practicing tradition, not religion. They are just doing what their parents did, and their parents before them, and they really don't know why they're doing it."

[MulderNScully 19]

That's a good point about tradition in the family and how its passed down to each generation. That's how we think about sexuality in general in the church because its been passed down from generation to generation (i.e. "If its good for Martin Luther, its good enough for me") no one bothers to confront the logic or the science behind it all. So many go blindly without knowing the freedoms they can have in the bedroom along with other(s) in the world.

 

I run a group of a bit over 600 Christian people at Yahoo and the thing I needed to know when I started was if I was crazy to even question if the church has it right concerning swinging or sex for that matter. For most, I am finding my questioning was only the tip of the iceberg and that others do ponder such questions too.

 

My thought is this goes deeper than just whether God smiles or frowns over swinging, but it is the whole sexual gamut regarding if we are even allowed to have a sexual thought let alone if we don't get destroyed by guilt or God over it. Deal with this thought and the rest will follow; deal with this and the peace you get coming from this is worth the world.

[warkman 31]

MulderNScully said:

That's a good point about tradition in the family and how its passed down to each generation. That's how we think about sexuality in general in the church because its been passed down from generation to generation (i.e. "If its good for Martin Luther, its good enough for me") no one bothers to confront the logic or the science behind it all. So many go blindly without knowing the freedoms they can have in the bedroom along with other(s) in the world.

 

Forgot who said it (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Tradition is one way in which we can perpetuate the mistakes of our predecessors."

[kenora_guy 16]

I am a practicing Christian who believes that the church (small 'c' intended) has generated a lot of junk theology based on poor translations (I am fluent in Koine Greek aka Biblical Greek) and predetermined outcomes...

 

If anyone wants to know more they can email me... I am willing to share my education but just not in this very public forum...

[prettylady 221]

After learning about the beltane fires of the king Arthur times, I'm thinking Wiccan is the way to go.

 

summer solstice sounds pretty good to. I love to dance, I love to be naked. I was born to be Wiccan.

 

I know I will be corrected on the Wiccan beltan fires thing. I am not sure what the lady of the lake was. But I know the Beltan fires looked like a good time.

 

ps I also like the natural way of the Wiccan teachings. I don't mean to dismiss the Wiccan way as trivial. I have been curious about it for sometime. Perhaps when I have more time to commit to learning a new way of worship I may start to study this way.

[WesternSwing 504]

prettylady said:

After learning about the beltane fires of the king Arthur times, I'm thinking Wiccan is the way to go.

 

summer solstice sounds pretty good to. I love to dance, I love to be naked. I was born to be Wiccan.

 

I know I will be corrected on the Wiccan beltan fires thing. I am not sure what the lady of the lake was. But I know the Beltan fires looked like a good time.

 

ps I also like the natural way of the Wiccan teachings. I don't mean to dismiss the Wiccan way as trivial. I have been curious about it for sometime. Perhaps when I have more time to commit to learning a new way of worship I may start to study this way.

 

I don't see any question as trivializing it. King Arthur was by all means a fictional character epitomizing the perfect king in both war and peace. He was a king for all kings to pattern themselves after. There are some that feel Arthur is based on a historical figure during the 6th century. The story of King Arthur clearly shows the struggle between the Old Religion and Christianity that was sweeping over Britan at the time. In the story Arthur's father, Uther Pendragon, was a follower of the Old Religion and later converted to Christianity shortly before his death.

 

However, the Beltane fires and rituals of the country folk (which is what "Pagan" means) is very real and Wicca is a modern day adaptation of the old ways of earth-based worship.

[Thrax 384]

SuAndBud said:

If everyone were Buddhist, the world would be a far better place.

 

Buddhism is not a religion as such in that no deity is worshiped, it's more a philosophy.

 

In a nutshell, enjoy your life to the full (in whatever way you find pleasurable) providing you don't hurt others in the process.

 

Karma.

SuAndBud,

This isn't a flame of your post, but I found a quote in the November 2006 PLAYBOY that seems to contradict what you said: "From an interview with the Dalai Lama in London's Daily Telegraph: 'A Western friend asked me what harm could there be between consenting adults having oral sex if they enjoy it. But the purpose of sex is reproduction, according to Buddhism. The other two holes don't create life. I don't mind -- but I can't condone this way of life. Using the other two holes is wrong.'"

 

Ummm...I like oral sex. And I think a lot of swingers do. So, does that rule out Buddhism?

 

There are top-down extremely organized religions such as Roman Catholicism with -- in this case a pontiff -- as the lead rule-maker. There are sects -- exemplified by many of the Protestant groups, Judaism, Islam, and apparently Buddhism, etc. -- that have congresses, conventions, or other affiliations that have local/regional law-givers, from extremely conservative to extremely liberal groupings. And there are the least-organized religions/philosophies -- Wiccan, pagan, animism, astrology, etc. -- that can actually devolve, realistically, to purely personal practice. And, of course, there are those that doubt the existence of a God (or Goddess), and those that believe there is no God.

 

I'm not asserting here that any specific religion or philosophy is right. I feel that religious belief, or non-belief, is up to the individual. However, there appear to be weaknesses to some degree in every religious system, whether they condone immolating someone in a wicker cage (yeah, I know that's extreme, but if you study history, it was a part of some religions), restricting diets, banning specific sexual practices, or preventing women from having abortions (pre- or post-quickening). However, I'm still a student of the field.

 

I'm probably getting in over my head here, and I may be inadvertently offending some of you. That's not my intent. I was raised a Roman Catholic, and I have drifted away from Catholicism, but I'm having a hard time finding a substitute. So, I'm reading a lot about religions and spirituality lately.

 

I'm probably agnostic more than atheist, but right now I'm just in a doubting phase. I'm partial to the pagan "Do no harm..." philosophy, but I don't know if that's enough. Should I also be concerned not with just tolerating others, but with actually taking that one step further and loving (non-sexually) others, like the Nickel Mines, PA, Amish espouse when talking about the man who murdered their daughters? THAT's a big step! Could I take that? Is it warranted? What would Jesus, Gandhi, Buddha, Martin Luther King, or Mother Teresa say?

 

Sorry to get so heavy, but this is a heavy subject. However, I now plan to logoff and engage in some earthly pursuits -- excessive beer-drinking and possible fornication (please, please, PLEASE! -- Don't know who I'm praying to though...) -- and hope to address this later. Thanks for reading all of this!

[dayhiker 83]

Hi Thrax,

Religion is a big question and you can study a life time and be as confused then as you are now. I personally believe a simple version of following Jesus is the way to go. Its been such a blessing to me over the last 45 years. But I can't give you my experience, you have to find your own. But the good thing is your looking. I do believe that those that look find. But I can't tell you when you'll find. Yet I don't think the time spent looking is wasted.

 

The don't harm others is also in Romans 13. If you have more to give after you have not harmed others. I think that's great. The giving beyond not harming people can make quite a difference in several peoples lives. I'm sure you can give to some of the people around. Give a little and in being faithful in giving that little, a door will open to give more. Then learn to give such that you don't get burned out. Keep personal growth going and you'll always have something to give.

 

Again, I have found that in Jesus ... if you don't find it in Jesus, only accept those that do actually love and accept others. That varies even within the same group however!

 

shalom,

dayhiker

[northindycpl 32]

Thrax said:

I was raised a Roman Catholic, and I have drifted away from Catholicism, but I'm having a hard time finding a substitute. So, I'm reading a lot about religions and spirituality lately.

 

Ditto!

 

I was also raised in a fairly strict Catholic environment, going to catholic schools, attending mass, etc. I have also been trying to seek out other spiritual associations- without much luck.

 

(I would recommend reading the Four Agreements, however)

 

It isn't so much as that I have been indoctrinated, I don't think, it is that mass feels like home to me. Moreso then any other religious church service I have attended. (Methodist, Baptist, Christian, Jewish) Maybe it is the rituals, or something, but mass is a place that I feel UNjudged.

 

In my particular case I do believe that swinging is a sin. I don't believe it is a mortal sin, and I do confess my swinging activities, and I do get absolution from the sin.

 

I repeat the sin, however. Which is another sin, I think.

 

Being Catholic may not be the best, but it is the best I have, and I do get something out of it- always. Isn't that the point after all?

[Mrs.PaganLovers 15]

I am Native American by blood and practice both NA and Wiccan spirituality. I am also an ordained minister. Pagan (as said before) is an Earth based spirituality and covers both NA beliefs and Wiccan beliefs. My spirituality comes first or nothing else in my life works. My Mother was a witch, but she never knew it . She passed on to me so many things about the Earth and Animals, yes I do believe in the Creator, by whatever name you want to give it/her/him.

 

Native American beliefs and Wiccan beliefs are very similar, just different tools are used in ceremony. We have no hang ups about sex and celebrate love, and the passing of energy during sex, there are ways of channeling orgasmic energy.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Cloud of Love 16]

My belief:

 

God is Love....limitless, undying and unconditional love. It is the very essence of our Being...most of us have just forgotten it, and our task on Earth is to remember our true nature as God's children. It is our fears and our limited egos that prevent us from seeing this most of the time.

 

Sex is like anything else on Earth....it can be a liberating thing and bring you closer to other people, or it can trap you into excess egoism and seperation from others. God made sex...it seems to me that means it is a good thing, it it is understood properly.

 

Now, I'm not a swinger....just an interested French Vanilla. But it SEEMS to me from reading about this, that swinging is something that, if it brings you closer to your spouse and enhances the unconditional love you have for your spouse, that it can be a good thing, a life and love enhancing thing. But I can also see how it can be a bad thing for people who might get obsessed with it, or who destroy their marraiges over it.

 

Note that I'd say the same thing about monogamy....it can be a glorious thing that makes your life better, or it can trap you into a cycle of despair.

 

So, is swinging a sin? If it hurts you, hurts your spouse, hurts the people you swing with, then yes. If it makes you happy, makes your spouse happy, makes the people you swing with happy, then no, it's not. Ultimately it depends on the people involved and their psychological and spiritual needs.

 

In my newbie French Vanilla opinion, of course!

[tylercouple4fun 15]

Just my two cents here.....

 

I believe that when you genuinely ask God into your life, He is there!

 

He is there when your mad, sad, happy, glad, confused and yes, even if you are active in the swinging lifestyle. He is there if you allow Him to be. God is in my heart everyday, everywhere. And no, I do not have a church I attend regularly. I just don't seem to fit in with any particular church. Now that is not to say I don't read faith based books, own a Bible, or wear a cross around my neck. I don't want to be discovered in a church as a "swinger", and be labeled a hypocrite.

 

(I hope that made sense)

 

**Ms. Tylercouple4fun**

:surrender

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

Hello everybody,

I thought I'd give this thread a bump and mention a few new developments. We did indeed launch a Liberated Christians group (see signature lines).

 

We also found another truly great book. Get yourself a copy of "The Royal Law of Liberty" by Darwin Chandler. It not only covers sexuality but a complete moral and ethical system for the modern Christian. I'm only 5 chapters into it but so far it is one of the most profound books I've ever read. It's available from most of the big online book stores.

[dayhiker 83]

nice_cpl_n_bama said:

Hello everybody,

I thought I'd give this thread a bump and mention a few new developments. We did indeed launch a Liberated Christians group (see signature lines).

 

We also found another truly great book. Get yourself a copy of "The Royal Law of Liberty" by Darwin Chandler. It not only covers sexuality but a complete moral and ethical system for the modern Christian. I'm only 5 chapters into it but so far it is one of the most profound books I've ever read. It's available from most of the big online book stores.

 

I have read this book. The book really has very little to say about sex. It comes up a few times. Darwin deals with sex in two of his other books.

 

I would highly recommend this book. The books reads just like Darwin would preach I suspect. So the book is wordy and repetitive. That's the down side, the upside, is this book really communicated the tension that existed between Jesus and the Pharisees. It shows why and what that tension was. The book gives definition of grace that isn't just being kind to someone, but that grace is a way of life just as the law was a way of life for the Jews. Whole passages of the NT are commented on. So in many ways this is a Biblical commentary of selected verse, verse dealing with the theme of love and liberty.

 

If one just focused on liberty once could belong to the libertine party. This book shows that Jesus and Paul didn't say law was the check on libertinism but love is. If law is the check then on just calls the police and let them haul off the offender. Love says we engage when the person. We learn how to meet their need. This is life based on grace not based on law.

 

That's a little of how I read Darwin's message.

[makinbutter69 15]

Mrs. Butter and I are rather Deist in our beliefs. We were both brought up in strict Christian homes. (both of our Fathers are pastors in fact) We believe in the Creator, but be believe that he not very involved in the day to day operation of the universe. Think of it as an ant farm!!

[davephx 32]

Gee interesting poll from 2 years ago has some posts.

 

I haven't had time to read all but confused what exactly "practising/practicing is. One doesn't have to go to Church or "practice" to be a Christian.

 

I consider myself Christian since I believe it is more likely than not Christ was real etc. But I also believe God (I do believe in a one universal God) may reach people equally without having to be branded a certain religious belief.

 

I was an extreme conservative Christian 25 years ago until I started researching on my own especially on biblical sexual issues. After years of study I had to conclude I was wrong in my traditional beliefs - the preached sexual repression simply has no true biblical basis.

 

That resulted in my forming Liberated Christians to share idea (libchrist.com) about 20 year ago and spoke at Lifestyles conventions many years on "Swinging Christians - not a biblical conflict.

 

Not having the right partner I am not active in swinging now but other intimacy interests more than just pure sex.

[**Macbeth** 27]

Very interesting thread, and very helpful information in it. It's good to know that many of us have similar experiences.

 

Both my wife and I were raised very conservatively. She was raised in Baptist and Mennonite circles (not Amish, don't worry . . .), where I am/was what some might refer to as a Birth Right Quaker. Now some of you on the east coast may have experiences with Quakers that definitely wouldn't preclude the lifestyle, but the Evangelical Friends tradition is not the same thing. My father spent many years as a pastor, and I even spent a short time in college working as a youth pastor, and seriously considered being an international missionary for several years.

 

So, big 180˚ turn here. As a PK, I got to experience the dirty underside of organized religion first hand, seeing my family in general, and each of specifically, treated like property or 'hired help'. That combined with philosophical and moral evolution led us to reevaluate our faith and come to the conclusion that most everything we'd been taught was fatally flawed, and did not fit into a rational view of the universe.

 

So, we've settled into the realm of 'Agnostic'. We don't disbelieve, but have definitely settled into the attitude that there is no way to know, and that the rules of modern religion exist more to control people, or to allow people the comfort of never having to think rationally or look closely at the world around them, than they do to bring people closer to 'God'.

 

My wife actually brought up an interesting comment I'd made years ago, which was a reflection of something said by the Apostle Paul (I think it was Paul). Basically, if this (formalized Christianity) isn't true we are all pretty foolish, and I'm going to be ticked off at all the things I haven't allowed myself to do. I mean, for crying out loud, my wife and I were virgins when we met, we had a two year dating/engagement (in college), and had sex for the first time on our wedding night. We're lucky, being soulmates, but the divorce rate at our Christian college was frickin' astronomical, because people were getting married just to have sex!

 

Anyway, that's my $.02 on this!

[celtic239 297]

I am a practicing Catholic, go to Mass every week. I'm just not a very good one, you know handling that whole lust thing. I am not a theologian but I received my undergraduate degree in history. One of the things that has always amazed me is why would swingers claim to be gnostics.

Gnosis is a Greek word for "knowledge". Most Gnostic groups in the first few centuries A.D were ascetics, forsaking the pleasures of the world. There have been a few sects within Christianity that practiced ritualized sex but not for the same reasons today's swingers engage in group sex.

 

The Carpocratians of early Christianity and the Khlysty of the Greek Orthodox believed in group sex but only because they felt that in order to free one's imprisoned soul one must pass through every possible condition of human life so they wouldn't be incarnated back to this world but rather go straight to God upon death.

 

The majority of Gnostics actually despised sex because they considered the act as a perpetuation of the material which was evil. The good was in the denial of the material things (including sex).

 

The only thing that I see that swingers and Gnostics have in common is a rejection of a structured religious hierarchy that mandates a certain type of conduct from its members.

[Rackir 159]

celtic239 said:

The only thing that I see that swingers and Gnostics have in common is a rejection of a structured religious hierarchy that mandates a certain type of conduct from its members.

 

Do you really find many in the swinging community claiming to Gnostics? I find most (and most students and academics as well) claim to be Agnostics, which is distinctly different. What's really funny is that even there for the part the term agnostic is misused. Agnosticism is generally taken to be a statement of ignorance. Neither believing in a god, nor believing that there is no god. Sort of a categorical "I don't know" type of stance. True agnosticism though is the belief that there is a higher power, but that it is of itself unknowable and unfathomable.

 

Of course generally when a person claims to be Agnostic, I think it's a safe bet to assume they mean that they are definitely unsure regarding the presence of a deity.

[megauxurious 15]

I recently downloaded a survey of polyamorists and notice that some religions/denominations are hugely overrepresented and others underrepresented. In the over- group are paganism and Unitarian/Universalism, and in the under-group are Protestants and especially Catholics.

 

The new poll on swinging and religion doesn't ask about paganism or Unitarianism specifically but I wonder if these are overrepresented among swingers too. Any thoughts?

 

There were similar interesting findings with respect to political preferences but I'm not sure its permissible to discuss that on this forum.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Mega,

 

Having explored some of the Poly forums, yes, paganism and such are much more prominent. But that doesn't mean that a lot of Christians aren't interested just afraid to admit it on the internet. As for politics, no, that isn't something we discuss here primarily it is even more charged than religion is and there are plenty of places for folks to go fight about that.

[Powerglide 235]

Well, I clicked on atheist, because that's technically correct, but I would have clicked Buddhist if that had been available.

[Guest BamaRide]

I clicked other...only because my though my faith is grounded in christian foundations I do not believe on organized modern churches. I practice faith without buildings and social groups. I prefer to think of myself as being spiritual and not religious.

[intuition897 2,179]

BamaRide said:

I clicked other...only because my though my faith is grounded in christian foundations I do not believe on organized modern churches. I practice faith without buildings and social groups. I prefer to think of myself as being spiritual and not religious.

 

 

I just got into this sort of conversation with my Mom tonight. I was brought up in a very traditional Christian home. But I'm...well...let's just say I've always been that green apple among the red. I am not a joiner and never will be. I'd go to church purely for the fellowship, but I have no interest in signing up to teach Sunday School or take Bible Study classes. Join, join, join. "Come, be just like us! Here's your badge and your hat, and don't forget the rest of your welcome-wagon literature!" And if you tell them you haven't been to church in over 2 years, their face nearly melts with pity...then their eye takes on a I'm-going-to-single-handedly-save-this-wretched-soul gleam. 'Scuse me, but I'm saved enough, TYVM. Just because I don't happen to go to church doesn't mean I'm "straying from the straight and narrow way." Well...I guess I am if you went by usual church standards, but my point is that I don't really care WHAT their standards are. I have little use for church; they just attempt to teach me how to put God in a box. Doesn't work that way.

 

I've run into the same thing with the definition of Agnostic. I understand the true meaning, but most people are so ignorant about it. The most annoying thing I can think of is when someone makes uninformed assumptions about you. Like assuming you couldn't possibly know the "real Jesus" if you believe this or that. Or that the reason you don't go to church is because you've been "led astray by Satan" and that all you need is to get back into the fold. Wouldn't have anything to do with you feeling more alienated and alone in that group because you can't stand being told that it's better to be like everyone else and better to not think for yourself. Nah, couldn't be that.

 

I'm not your standard Christian. I totally agree with swinging, I disagree with most of the doctrines of the modern church, I'm open to the possibility of reincarnation...I even read Tarot cards and whatnot! Admitting that to my Mom actually raised her voice an octave. She's quite upset with me. *sigh* but what are we to do? It hurts to have to disagree with people I love, but it would positively kill me to be anything other than what I am.

[gatorvol64 216]

I was thinking about you a couple of days ago. Nice to read one of your posts again.

 

I could have written all you said in your post. Down to the tarot cards. Have had an interest in them for a while now. Finally picked out a first deck for me (I'm sure it won't be the last since I've already got my eye on a couple of others) and am now studying how to read them. Books are the only answer I have for that at the time. Tarot cards are not truly something many in my area would even know the definition for. One day maybe I can get personal instruction.

 

Lovely to know you are still visiting the board.

 

Vol

[CXXC 435]

Both faith and any relationship with God, The Creator, Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, Buddha, etc.... are very personal and individualistic. Where one requires Transubstantiation another is happy to feel a breeze to believe in a higher power.

 

Unfortunately, due to humanities inability to admit that all peoples faiths are equally "correct" as is their own, no one organized religion will ever let the faithful alone.

 

Each religion possesses a specific dogma that makes that organization different from the next. Even within that construct, you will find subtle differences from one church, of the same religion, to the next.

 

These points clearly illustrate that no matter how grand, great or organized the religion, the congregation picks from it what it wants to believe. Cafeteria Christians for lack of a better term. Is this wrong? I cannot accept that. Like I said, everyone’s relationship with their God is different.

 

We swing! Does that make us less good? Does that make us of low moral character? I dare say, again, No! We are good at the core. We do nothing to harm another intentionally. We do not defile our bodies, steal, lie, covet or deny God. We keep to societal norm and uphold both the laws of man and for the most part, the laws of God as handed down to us by men of centuries past.

 

No man with ill will in his heart can call himself a man of God. How is it that most of us, loving, kind, passionate and giving souls are called sinners when we transgress against no one?

 

Keep your faith as you are comfortable with it. I am certain, in the end, God will be just as pleased with you for believing in Him in your own way as He is with those who believe in Him in theirs.

[SheLovesTheSun 40]

I voted for being a practicing Christian, but I don't actually attend church. I pray every night and I try to do as a good Christian does, i.e., help others, show love, not judging.

 

The non-judgmental part, I really try to practice, because I haven't been in everyone's shoes. I've also done plenty that would be considered 'sinful' as everyone else in the world, too.

 

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox right now It's just that I can't stand to see others hypocritically criticize others.

[Karmickiss 28]

Hi All,

I hesitated getting into this b/c I could literally write a book about this. I think ,too, it's a very personal thing. I was brought up Lutheran, and have nothing against any religion. I think there's something for everyone, and that there are many paths to the One. I do believe in God, and have basic Christian belief, but not so much in the politics of the churches. I think it's sad there's been so much bloodshed in the name of a loving God, and the contradictions bother me..."Love Your Neighbor as Yourself" yet if your neighbor doesn't believe exactly the same things, they are not "damned" in my eyes. Also I have some trouble with scripture, and time..and the church was state at one time...and there were things taken out and put in according to the needs of the times. So I feel like there's still great things to find there, I am talking mostly here about Christian scripture, b/c it seems to be more well known,and I'm still on that part of my post. In my mind there is bound to be some misreadings b/c I don't believe human beings are perfect in every way, and all have our own interpretations...but even one word(I know, I'm bi-lingual, Finnish was my first language) not interpreted exactly could change the entire meaning. I think it's again, personal, and that God would be big enough to meet us where we are. I love the version where Jesus decended into hell, first, after being crucified, and prophesized to those in that "state", which leads me to believe that at any time, in body or not, we are going to experience what we believe or expect, but that this can always be changing and growing, I know it is for me.

 

I also feel I'm more spiritual than religious..throughout my life, I have studied formally and informally world religions...and would listen to anyone about their beliefs, but nothing fits all...I have told my kids their spirituality is a great journey, finding what works for them, and supporting them no matter how they'd decide to believe in or practice. The bottom line for me, is respecting others...even if I don't agree on everything. I find gems in everything, and where I was confused when I started searching, now I'm so comfortable, remain teachable, and am very ecclectic.

 

I think the Hindu religion is pretty close to the concepts of my beliefs, the whole reincarnation...and even the gods and godesses, I didn't realize before that they were considered to be "aspects" of the One divine source...which makes all sense to me. I like Native American spirituality, Buddhism....and find my spiritual self is something I really love to explore and practice. I belong to a great group regarding "Cosmic Consciousness" that explores so much, and so many members, and so many different beliefs but a place to share all.

 

The way I feel today, about my spiritual self, is not incongruent with swinging. For me, it's all about "To Thine Ownself Be True"...and I don't see the God I believe in as being anywhere nearly as judgemental and punitive as the one I grew up with. I love this topic, but realize it can be a loaded one for people...I still am reading through responses...and value everyone's standpoint. If God is big enough to have created all....I feel he's big enough to accommadate all. And I do have a loose view that God is experiencing himself through duality...which the world is full of, and feel there is a place for all things in the end. Great topic.....Best Wishes, karmic

[xxxboxy 139]

Wow, it's like stepping through a transdimensional portal. Thanks!

[Pioneer Swinger 16]

Hubby and I are practicing Christians. So is my first partner other than hubby. While I have enjoyed many men in the 31 years since I became active (age 49 now), Rick and Al are the "true love" in my life. I share with them a part of me no other man can ever have: My heart. I feel that is consistent with my faith. I share more than my body with them. I share my heart. And, more. Were hubby to pass, I know I would marry Al. And, Al and I would continue to swing. The only difference is, the taboo is less today than it was in 1978 when Al and I first made love. (OK, maybe not in Louisiana, if one has been reading the news. However, I think my child-bearing days are about over!) Yes, I am white as is my husband Rick, while Al is black. Yes, when Al and I travel together, we go to church whenever we can. And, we always make love before we go to worship, to symbolize us as being together by God.

[M1F2KTJ 473]

I picked "Other". I don't know how you cannot believe in a creator. I believe in "God". The organized religion I see today makes me sick. There is no such thing in my "religion" as murder, theft or destruction. Loving is my "religion". If having sex with someone makes everyone happy and nobody dies, I haven't taken anything from them or destroyed something then I'm happy and I cannot comprehend someone who would be against that. I would tolerate their opinion as long as they didn't try to interfere with mine.

[SheLovesTheSun 40]

I find organized religion (Christianity, I can't speak for other religions) to be off-putting, because they all have their interpretations of the Bible. Also over the years, things get askewed and many churches teach things that aren't in the Bible, as a Biblical teaching.

 

I think Gandhi put it best when he said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

 

One of the things I love about the swinging lifestyle is the open-mindedness that I've encountered and how people often accept others without judgment.

[Boomtangle 16]

I'm a minister (not a pastor). My wife and I are occasional swingers. We felt like it conflicted with our faith at first, but we had to be true to what we desired. After studying the Bible we found that most holy men of God had more than one wife. After all Abraham's wife, Sarah, gave him her handmaid as a wife, Moses had two wives, David had multiple wives and concubines, as did Solomon. Paul primarily admonished ministers to be the husbands of one wife because Rome had banned polygamy and it was an issue of Christian testimony not morality. We take adultery seriously and don't do anything that the other isn't aware of or wouldn't agree to. We only play when we feel the "itch" and we're very discrete. We view our sexuality as something private - something between ourselves and our God and we don't share information regarding our sexuality with fellow Christians that we know might not understand. Part of my personal theology is a belief in Universal Reconciliation. This teaching is essentially that God provided EVERY man's salvation through Christ. Yes, there is a Hell, but even Hell is an expression of a loving God who uses the fires to purify even the most vile of sinners. One day all will stand before God redeemed by the blood of Christ. Anyway, that's our story.

[Guest softswingpei]

Interesting poll, but keep in mind that "catholics" are Christians too, whether they are Roman Catholic, Old Catholic etc.

 

Christianity is complex - the old diochotomy of Protestant v. Catholic is WAY too simplistic.

[GoNatural 104]

My background is that of protestant christian, but I'm now an atheist. I voted as to what I am now. The word "background" in the question makes it a little tricky.

[RyanF 15]

The premise of sex is overlooked by most people. Sex is of biochemistry.

Logically, healthy sex is no different than going jogging, eating well, sleep well etc...

 

There is no reason at all someone can't love god and want to do good while maintaing a healthy body, including a strong sex drive with more then one partner.

 

Just be sure not to neglect your duties as a parent etc...

[shootermcgavin6 3]

If anyone would like to know what God's view on swinging is they should watch zeitgeist. In fact here's a link to it on youtube, zeitgeist religion - Yahoo! Video Search

 

I was amazed at how informative it was. Let me know what you think after watching it.

[StewartP 171]

We are now atheist, but back in the day were fundy Southern Baptists.

 

I find it hard to understand how practicing Christians justify swinging. It's pure fornication and hedonism.

 

But hey, as long as everyone is balling and not talking about Jesus while we're on the job, who cares!

[sparkstar 128]

We don't believe in any religion.

[Guest BamaRide]

I am a Christian and no... to me there is no conflict between making a social choice to swing and ones faith in the Bible and God. I fell away from attending the formalized 'church' for several years and came back to it only after a long time considering things. I've long held that 'religion' in general is commonly used to suppress human activity. Sex is one area of human behavior that the religions of the world have consistently tried to force 'rules' on the public at large. So when you remove the 'churches' insistence that sex outside of marriage is bad your left with nothing more than:

1. is this something you enjoy?

2. Is it harmful to you?

3. Is it harmful to others?

 

I really believe that once a Christian answers these questions for themselves there is nothing that precludes them from participating in the lifestyle if that is what they so desire.

[SK3 15]

I'm a non-practicing Protestant, and my partner is a non-practicing Catholic.

[Fours Company 169]

For the poll purposes I would be agnostic, since where a higher being is concerned I feel no one can know either way and it is irrelevant.

In reality I would be an ex non-practicing Catholic, who became a Deist, but now would consider myself a Secular Humanistic. My personal morals have been formed by the Humanist creed of "Be good for goodness sake" and not because of any afterlife promise of reward or threat of punishment. A lifetime of personal experiences, a skeptical science-oriented nature and following politics has actually made me view organized religion in general in a not very good light yet I'm still very respectful of others beliefs as long as they keep them private.

 

The wife is a non-practicing Baptist who, while has gotten much closer to my side of the fence as time went on, would still be closer to a Deist and believes some sort of entity had to create the universe.

[michjosh69 23]

I am a semi-traditional Muslim woman in that I don’t drink, take drugs, eat pork, I observe the religious holidays, but... I’m a swinger, and I make no apologies.

 

You're a godsend. This can't be a coincidence. We messaged you!