Being treated as a conquest due to race

[Pepper & Drew 384]

We got an email from a couple a few days ago on SLS. They are HOT. Good looking guy, good looking girl, an interest in us, and certified by people we know....sounds like a plan. We write them back and give them some information for contacting us. We are stoked!

 

Other threads here have talked about people that treat you like a conquest because of your race.

 

So, lo and behold, we receive an email this morning: (I've removed names to protect the guilty)

 

i have never been with a black woman before and have been wanting it for a while now...you are very beautiful ***** has but not since weve been together. She loves to make my fantasies cum true. She luvs the touch of a woman and taste too! Unfortunately she does not want intercourse with another man...she says she may do oral though...whatcha think? Let us know!

 

So, in addition to insulting me personally, they pretty much try to leave one of us out and suck at writing like a grownup too. It's practically a "what not to write" guide. If they'd just read the board, who knows, we might be meeting them tomorrow night. Instead, they'll be reading this:

 

Although we appreciate you interest, I don't think we'd be a match with you guys for two reasons: we either both play or neither plays and because, frankly, your reference to "wanting it for a while now" is insulting. I am a person, not something to mark off your "TO DO" list like I was a Disney ride. Good luck with your search.

 

Have you encountered situations where you wish people read the advice here before they acted?

 

Pepper

[Spoomonkey 420]

Pepper & Drew said:

Have you encountered situations where you wish people read the advice here before they acted?

 

Not nearly as desperately as they needed to read it before writing you...

 

Wow - how bone-headed can you be???

 

I have a list of "want to's" as long as my arm, but I wouldn't play with someone just to be able to check something as "done". That'd be bonus, not onus.

 

There are a lot of reasons we hope that people would this board. But, mostly, we have found that the people that tend to gravitate and stay here are incredibly level headed and fun. The people we have met from here have been the people that we have enjoyed the most (play or not).

 

But would reading this board have made that guy any brighter? I doubt it

 

Sorry that happened to you.

[SuAndBud 21]

Pepper and Drew,

 

Surely it can't be lost on you that it doesn't just happen here, on the web. You (and Su) share a uniqueness in that A) You're attractive women in your own right. B) You're...ermmm....how can I put this.....Oh, yeah, not white. C) You're with a white dude. You must be easy then, cuz you ain't hanging out with your "Bruvvers".

 

True case in point just yesterday. Bud was getting something from the car. Su had already left the car and was close to her place of business. Bud hears her voice talking to someone and noted the measure of surprise in her voice. Bud drops what he was collecting from the car (as we've had crap like this before) and heads towards Su. As he gets nearer he hears from the guy ".....No, I mean it. You are very beautiful. I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it. You are a very beautiful lady...." At which point Su saw Bud approaching and was able to say, "Hi darling" over the guy's shoulder. He turns around, spots Bud in his Stallone mode (tho' Sylvester never looked so good - LOL) and scurries back under his rock.

 

The thing is that Bud's ex-wife was almost equally as stunningly gorgeous as Su but such never happened. OK, guys hit on her, but not so blatantly and disrespectfully. But then she was a tall blonde caucasian.

 

Get used to it. On the Net it's even more prevalent because of the anonimity afforded.

 

Actually, it can be quite exciting and stimulating if you let it be. Su finds it hilarious. Bud's not so sure.

[ShellyM 0]

That's great, I like your response a lot...that was something else. They were very rude to say such a thing to you.

[havefuninsun 122]

Sorry to hear about this Pepper. People surprise me all the time. We had the pleasure of meeting a couple who sported more pigmentation in their skin than we -- what we liked about them was their intelligence, their sense of humor ... they are an attractive couple in a lot of ways. We talked AFTER the fact about who had played before with someone of like color, but that wasn't the attraction. We enjoy variety -- who here doesn't?? And variety can mean a lot of things, but I don't think it's a "to do" list.

[Chip_n_Muffy 16]

Interesting. I would rather sleep with someone I liked and had an attraction to. If those facets were there, would the rest of it matter?

 

Thinking of this, it begs the question, would a person sleep with someone less than their standard just to cross a criteria off the To Do list? It seems that would lead to a less than satifactory experience. Further, if listing experiences To Do becomes a focal point, I would think the availability of more and more exotic To Do's would diminish. Where do you go after you have crossed everything off the list? Triple breasted, six eyed, green Neptunian bi women are notoriously hard to come by, sort of the intergalactic Unicorn. And although that particular Unicorn might be in high demand, after a while I bet she would feel used.

 

I prefer to experience people for who they are, not for what they are .......

 

Chip

[Dooode 18]

Hmm .. tough call.

 

I am going to play Devil's Advocate on this one (because I can!).

 

On the issue of the other lady being soft-swap only (G/G play, oral only with the guy), that's not unheard of in the Lifestyle. As a matter of fact, it's fairly common. That part sounds to me like a clash of play preferences. No big deal. If Pepper and Drew are full-swap only, so be it.

 

On the second part: In a land where racial segregation still takes place, I only have admiration for people who can sexually fantasize about other races.

 

Now.

 

Whether they should communicate those fantasies, is where the lines get blurry. After all, as Pepper says, we're talking about people here not cars or boats.

 

But how many profiles do we see where people talk of their fantasies? "We've never done a DP but would love to try ... ", "my wife would love to be with a black guy with a big cock", 'Asian women are a big fantasy of mine" ...

 

... you follow? That's not so uncommon neither.

 

Personally, I've been with blacks (or "African-Americans" ... am I supposed to be PC here?!??), both men and women. I find the colour contrast extremely erotic and the initial thrill of being with a different race has dwindled, but it's still very exciting to me. The fantasy of wanting the experience is gone. It's become experience.

 

Lastly (and this goes to Pepper): I find it difficult reconcilling the fact that you're allowed to look at this couple as pieces of meat "They are HOT. Good looking guy, good looking girl" but when the guy returns the sentiments and tells you his fantasy of being with a NEW type of meat, he is beat down.

 

Sorry, Pepper. I think you're a very level-headed lady (and I know I haven't had to live a life dealing with racial prejudisms and innuendos), but I think you were being a little over-sensitive on this issue.

[Chicup 41]

I would have bonged them for spelling come 'cum'

 

Pet Peeve of mine, it is not sexy and makes you look stupid to me.

 

Also it looks like they wanted to do a 3/4ths swap which would be bad in our book.

 

Now for the race thing, I don't think I'd be offended if a woman wrote me she had never been with a white man and wanted to try it but I don't mind being a sex toy

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

I have to agree with Doode and Chicup.

 

This couple was expressing one of their fantasies, like any other fantasy many swingers hope to fulfill. As swingers we can either find those people - who are upfront with stating them - offensive because of the nature of their attraction to you, and drop them cold because of it, or decide we know such fantasies exist and accept it as part of what comes with the Lifestyle.

 

I'm in my 50s and have men in their early 30s write to us expressing their desire to be with an "older woman." I could be offended by that, but I'm not. But some women are, and it's their prerogative to handle those situations as they see fit. I think you have your preference not to be sought after because of your color, and that's okay.

[VanHlebar 187]

Well I am going to take a stab at this too

 

First it is not very surprising to me that this group as a whole would give answers along the lines of a beautiful woman is a beautiful not for the color our her skin, but just because she is beautiful...and I would have to agree with that. This group would tend to be a bit more liberal in thinking, lets face it, we already are way outside of the main stream and well, despite how far we have come, main stream still doesn't really care for mixed relationships.

 

That being said I have to agree somewhat with Doodle, Chicup and Likeminds. This person was sharing a fantasy of theirs that they were hoping that you could help with. Now, could they have done this in a much better way? Sure, they could have made you feel like the extremely sexy and attractive woman that you are, without acting like a fool because they were going to finally get to be with someone of a different race. I agree with Doodle that I really find the contrast of skin colors to be extremely erotic, but I would never ever under any circumstances make a potential playmate, friend or even a person feel uncomfortable because of the color of their skin, hair, eyes or whatever.

 

I think Likeminds hit it on the head, that everyone is in the lifestyle for different reasons and we all have the right to react to those in whatever fashion we choose. If this person offended you, then move on...if however you think that you could get past that and still wanted to meet them, I would explain that their comments made you feel uneasy and explain why. The person very well might have meant well but just came off the wrong way.

 

But, as to the name of the thread.....I think everyone should read the forums. Lots of great people here and this forum has been a huge resource for MrsVan and I as we stumble along our path and attempt to figure things out. We have received so much support from this board a number of months ago when we had our first few experiences.

[Funcpl647 15]

I empathize with both sides on this.

 

We had the opportunity two weeks ago to play with what seemed to be an educated, intelligent, sexy man. He said his mother was Jamaican, I think. He was stuck on the fact that I should want to have sex with him just because he was black. "It's a fantasy of a lot of people. You're lucky to have this opportunity." When I finally told him that I don't see in color and had a wonderful black boyfriend years ago, he quickly moved to another sales pitch. Needless to say, the more he opened his mouth, the worse the evening became. We left without so much as a hug.

 

I do agree that quirks are quirks and visual cures are a big part of what turns us on. I'm a sucker for great teeth and white straw cowboy hats. Go figure.

 

Just out of curiosity, is Pepper your given name or does it represent something? Green peppers? Chile peppers? Black pepper?

[Tia Vampire 167]

It is true what you have said here, but at the same time i have done it myself. I may have not mentioned it to the person, but have done it. I once slept with this very overweight guy just to see how it was, but after getting to know him better, i did start liking him for him. The problem was he did not like himself and after about 6 month he committed suicide. We were no longer together, but i still feel like i lost a good friend.

[2jersey 16]

Let's assume Pepper interviewed for employment with a respected company for a position for which she feels well qualified. Pepper excels during the interview and, despite stiff competition, she is offered employment.

 

On her first day of work her new boss informs Pepper that he is pleased to have her as an employee. He proceeds to inform her that the company has been working very hard to find a black woman to fill the position.

 

OFFENSIVE! Pepper should be evaluated based on her individuality rather than her race.

[ohcpl43952 16]

Isn't part of sexuality our vision? Some like blondes. Some like women with small breasts. Some like women who are BBW. No sense in being prejudiced toward someone who wants a specific type. We all do it in one way or another.

[Amanda69 24]

Pepper sorry to hear about your recent incident. Some people have no couth.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

 

On the issue of the other lady being soft-swap only (G/G play, oral only with the guy), that's not unheard of in the Lifestyle. As a matter of fact, it's fairly common. That part sounds to me like a clash of play preferences. No big deal. If Pepper and Drew are full-swap only, so be it.

 

No, the couple is not soft swap. The guy wanted to have sex with me, and MAYBE Drew would get a little oral. I dunno, call us crazy, but I think that's a little balsy to ask about, especially with a couple that says in their profile that they both play or neither plays. In the link that I referred to, it talked about the 3/4 swap, which in a group situation might be ok, but in a couple with couple senario, leaves Drew twiddling his thumbs in the corner.

 

I find it difficult reconcilling the fact that you're allowed to look at this couple as pieces of meat "They are HOT. Good looking guy, good looking girl" but when the guy returns the sentiments and tells you his fantasy of being with a NEW type of meat, he is beat down.

 

Nope, didn't treat them at any point in time as meat. I never referred to this couple as anything other than people. He referred to me as IT. I don't mind being complimented, or described as HOT or good looking, (I rather enjoy it) but you starting talking about it....as in 'I have never been with a black woman before and have been wanting it for a while now.' Yeah, I think that's different as describing them as hot. If I had said in an email to them, 'yeah, I want me some of that', I think THEN I would have been treating them like meat.

 

But, I don't reckon it really matters whether I'm over-sensitive or not. What it does show is that this couple, in not giving any thought into their approach of another couple, (in what they said and how they wrote it) he won't be getting any of it from me. See, they should have read the board.....

 

Pepper

[Pepper & Drew 384]

Isn't part of sexuality our vision? Some like blondes. Some like women with small breasts. Some like women who are BBW. No sense in being prejudiced toward someone who wants a specific type. We all do it in one way or another.

 

That's fine that there are preferences. I got it. But, would you go up to a woman with big breasts and say, 'wow, I've always wanted to have sex with a woman with a huge rack. It's a fantasy of mine.' You probably could, but you probably wouldn't get very far. Or, go up to a BBW and say, 'wow, I've never been with anybody as fat as you. This is going to be great!' Not. It's the same thing with this.

 

If you are going to approach someone, compliment them, let them know you're interested, but don't lead with 'hey, i've always had this fantasy about having sex with a midget! I'm so glad you're here!'

 

Pepper

[TNT 1,155]

I definitely see where Pepper is coming from...I've been in this position many times only in the reverse.

 

If I had a dime for every time I've had a black man contact me just because I happen to be extremely white in color and they think it would be cool to be with me without wanting to know anything whatsoever about me as a person, we could all retire and move to a tropical island somewhere. It's very annoying to be wanted just because of your skin color.

 

I've been with black men and yes, the first time there was a certain "thrill" to it but...the only reason I've ever been with any man...black or white was because I enjoyed them for who they were as a person.

 

There is a fine line between wanting to fulfill a fantasy of being with a person of a different race and being approached and treated as if you're just a piece of meat to be used for the thrill of the moment.

 

 

Teresa

[Pepper & Drew 384]

Funcpl647 said:

Just out of curiosity, is Pepper your given name or does it represent something? Green peppers? Chile peppers? Black pepper?

 

Oh, it's just my stripper name

 

During our strip club phase, Drew and I were talking about "stripper names." I chose Pepper. It stuck.

[Spoomonkey 420]

TNT said:

There is a fine line between wanting to fulfill a fantasy of being with a person of a different race and being approached and treated as if you're just a piece of meat to be used for the thrill of the moment.

 

I think this is the point really...

 

To me - anyway. I don't look for people that can fulfill particular fantasies - I look for people. I have had many fantasies fulfilled, but don't think I have ever actively looked for someone who fit a certain characteristic (race, height, hair color, whatever).

 

Even if someone fulfills the fantasy that I have - I can't have sex with them unless I am into them as a person. I guess I just choose to put the horse before the cart...

[Pepper & Drew 384]

Spoomonkey said:

I think this is the point really...

 

To me - anyway. I don't look for people that can fulfill particular fantasies - I look for people. I have had many fantasies fulfilled, but don't think I have ever actively looked for someone who fit a certain characteristic (race, height, hair color, whatever).

 

Even if someone fulfills the fantasy that I have - I can't have sex with them unless I am into them as a person. I guess I just choose to put the horse before the cart...

 

Ding, ding, ding!!! We have a winner!!!

 

Pepper

[WesternSwing 504]

I agree, Spoo. I have - and Mrs. WS knows this - a fetish if you will for Hispanic women. Goes back to my first sexual experience and the girl I first fell in love with was Hispanic. BUT, I sure don't go looking for them. I don't need to fulfill that. It is a turn-on like my wife's red hair and freckles. That's it. What this guy said was just assinine. Some people's kids. Did he really think that would turn Pepper on? It's like the guy that emailed us and said he is in search of the pale, puffy-nippled redhead. Yeah, Mrs. WS really want's to be a marked-off line of To-Do list. You can imagine how not turned on she was and how fast she hit "Block" on his profile.

[Spoomonkey 420]

WesternSwing said:

I agree, Spoo. I have - and Mrs. WS knows this - a fetish if you will for Hispanic women. Goes back to my first sexual experience and the girl I first fell in love with was Hispanic. BUT, I sure don't go looking for them.

 

I really have a thing for short women.

 

I was telling a girl at work this and she looked at me dumbfounded and said, "so why are you with [Mrs Spoo]*?"

 

"Because I love her," I answered.

 

I felt like my answer was obvious and her question was a little weird. Just like I didn't look for a short girl to be my soulmate (my soulmate is who she is - and I am glad I didn't write her off because she is 5'7" instead of 5'1") - I don't look for particular women to have chemistry with.

 

Now - if a tiny little thing wants to say hello and find out if chemistry exists, I am pretty open-minded about it

[Dooode 18]

Pepper:

 

I'm only going by what you wrote. "She luvs the touch of a woman and taste too! Unfortunately she does not want intercourse with another man..." indicates to me a soft-swap person. Of course, if the man is hardcore (as you say) and she's not, the situation is obviously unbalanced so I can't say I blame you there. I wouldn't want to be sitting around in a corner with my dick in my hands neither.

 

"I have never been with a black woman before and have been wanting it for a while now."

 

He is not calling you "it", he is calling the fantasy "it". There's a difference.

 

Likeminds pointed out something (being contacted by 30yos who fantasize for older women) that often happens to me also, and that is that I am often contacted by couples BECAUSE I am bisexual and they'd like me to help fulfill that fantasy. As with her, I am not irked by it neither ... and I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to fulfill a fantasy (now whether I allow myself to be used for that purpose is a different story!).

 

Pepper, whether they tell you or not, the fantasy very likely going to be sitting in the foremost of their minds. YOU ARE UNIQUE in a predominately caucasian lifestyle. Like it or not, it's a fact. The fantasy is going to exist.

 

Now you can choose to pretend the fantasy doesn't exist, but this guy was simply being honest with you. It could've just as easily have been his way of saying that he didn't know how to approach the subject because he is inexperienced (ok, that's a stretch! LOL).

 

But as I've said before, "YOUR life, YOUR body, YOUR rules" and how you feel says it all. Whether Drew is uncomfortable or you are, it's game over.

 

I just don't think they should've been slammed for originating a fantasy. That's all. If we all did, no one would be hooking up.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

A) I have a terrible fear of the 3/4 swap.

 

B) Pepper's response was honest, to the point and polite but firm. WOW! Good example of the difference between Assertive and Aggressive. I'm trying to learn that. (I'm neither. But when I try to be assertive, I sometimes confuse it with aggressive. See, we can learn non-swinging things here because as much as anything, swinging is about human interaction!)

 

Mr. Little Bird

 

PS Pepper and Drew, sorry you guys had to run into boneheads. You seem, from this board, like nice people.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

Pepper, whether they tell you or not, the fantasy very likely going to be sitting in the foremost of their minds. YOU ARE UNIQUE in a predominately caucasian lifestyle. Like it or not, it's a fact. The fantasy is going to exist.

 

Now you can choose to pretend the fantasy doesn't exist, but this guy was simply being honest with you.

 

I just don't think they should've been slammed for originating a fantasy. That's all. If we all did, no one would be hooking up.

 

I'm not ignoring that the fantasy exists. I'm not slamming the fantasy. Most of the couples we play with have said at one point or another that they've never been with a black woman, or that they really find black women attractive....but if any of them had LED with that info upon meeting, it would have been a very quick conversation. If you didn't notice, it was the first sentence of that email. Honesty is one thing, but as my mama says, you can tell what you know, but you ain't gotta tell ALL you know. I'll say again, most people see the problem with going up to a woman with large breasts at a club and say, 'you have really big tits. I love that. I've always had that fantasy, yada, yada, yada' and why she wouldn't be thrilled with your honest and direct approach. It's not ok with other physical attributes either... including race. I don't care what led you to walk up to me. I want to know why I should be happy that you did .

 

Pepper

[SuAndBud 21]

Doode,

 

We respect your well thought out and obvious good intentions.

 

You also appear to be a level-headed and considerate person, but you're not a couple at the moment of writing this.

 

With all due respect to you as a person and as an individual, you are not currently really in a position to understand how it feels to be sharing the person you otherwise love with another.

 

Please don't talk to Pepper and Drew or ourselves or any other couples here for that matter as if you're Gandalf.

 

When you can look us in the eye as one half of a mixed-race couple, having experienced the "To-Do list" mentality that most of us have and experience (ourselves include), your opinions will be more validated.

 

Neither Su is nor, we suspect, Pepper is a solo entity. We are a couple.

 

Try advertising yorself as a mixed race couple and you'll find out that often the couple angle goes out of the window whilst either or both of the other couple just see the exotic part of your pair (the same probably applies as often, though to a lesser degree, we suspect if the mixed couple have a black guy and white girl).

 

In the immortal words of Michael Jackson (yeah, right. Like he actually wrote them).:

 

See, It’s Not About Races

Just Places

Faces

Where Your Blood

Comes From

Is Where Your Space Is

I’ve Seen The Bright

Get Duller

I’m Not Going To Spend

My Life Being A Color

 

[Dooode 18]

Dear Pepper:

 

Yup. I totally see where you're coming from. It does throw me off if some lady just suddenly blurts out that she'd love to see me fuck her husband but I understand the fantasy and I try not to cut people down for having a fantasy. Fantasies are deeply personal and I try to respect that.

 

But you're right. It was all in the delivery (he could've at least waited until the second sentence! haha).

 

Thanks for this. I thought this was a very good discussion and it gave me stuff to think about.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I'm not ignoring that the fantasy exists. I'm not slamming the fantasy. Most of the couples we play with have said at one point or another that they've never been with a black woman, or that they really find black women attractive....but if any of them had LED with that info upon meeting, it would have been a very quick conversation. If you didn't notice, it was the first sentence of that email. Honesty is one thing, but as my mama says, you can tell what you know, but you ain't gotta tell ALL you know. I'll say again, most people see the problem with going up to a woman with large breasts at a club and say, 'you have really big tits. I love that. I've always had that fantasy, yada, yada, yada' and why she wouldn't be thrilled with your honest and direct approach. It's not ok with other physical attributes either... including race. I don't care what led you to walk up to me. I want to know why I should be happy that you did .

 

Pepper

 

It doesn't matter if it's telling you they want to screw you because you are black or whatever the reason... if that's the first (or worse - only) sentance in their intro email then to me it's a turn-off and a fast track to the delete key.

[Chicup 41]

It doesn't matter if it's telling you they want to screw you because you are black or whatever the reason... if that's the first (or worse - only) sentance in their intro email then to me it's a turn-off and a fast track to the delete key.

 

Heh while the concept of being told I was a fantasy for my race wouldn't turn me off, I do agree the mail itself was a turn off I think most of us can agree on that.