Racist Friends

[MoonLightKiss 28]

Well, I was reading in this thread and figured, what the hell? Why not use it? Maybe venting here will keep me from finding a hole and crawling in it to escape the crap I seem to be attracting lately.

 

Hubby and I argued last night. My husband is a country boy. But he is a decent man. Anyway, we have a few couples who we are friends with, and we normally get together once a weekend for a grill out, hang out, have a few drinks and laughs fun. This past weekend was our turn to host it. And talk about a BAD TIME had by all. I completely showed my ass. But I feel it was justified.

 

We have a couple that we are really close to, and they are an african american couple. Gonna call em John and Jane. We love em to death. I went to high school with the husband, I now go to college with the wife. We have been there for each other through thick and thin. For our anniversary, money was very tight at the time and they paid for a hotel room for us for the weekend. Made sure it was really special for us and everything. We took their kids for the week so they could go on their honeymoon. Stuff like that. We love them and they love us, in a purely vanilla way.

 

Problem...one of the couples that came to our house this weekend is evidently a complete racist. And we had our black friends there. We are all sitting there after having eaten, having a few drinks and laughs, when the next thing I hear is "I can't stand a F------ N-----" So I whip around to see who said it...my eyes meet John's, then Jane's, they are in utter shock. I look around and see "Janet" still running her mouth about N---- this and N---- that...Hubby is standing there oblivious to anything cause he is too busy talking about cars.

 

I never thought that Janet and her husband were this way. I truly hate hate hate racism. Its so small minded. So I walk right up to Janet, deciding to try and be polite, as I don't want to cause a scene and upset everyone. I tell her I think its time they went home, that if they needed a ride, I was willing to call them a cab or take them home myself, but they needed to leave. She actually asks why. DUH :rollseyes I told her to please leave, I would call her tommorrow, she insists, so I tell her what she said offended not only the other couple but me as well since they are my friends. I tell her I do not tolerate that kind of behavior in my home, and that if she cared to apologize she was welcome to but she was not welcome to stay. Hubby walks up, asks whats going one, Janet lights into him about how his wife is a "N--- loving Bitch, who would rather hang out with (various racist comments) than with real white people."

 

I hit her...oh god I did, I didn't mean to, I was just so mad. I kinda feel guilty about it because I hate fighting, but she had this one coming. I dragged her ass outta my house and told her to get lost...looked at her husband and asked him in the nicest voice if he needed assistance leaving as well. He just walked out.

 

So now, half of our friends are mad at us and the other half is mad at them, so our once close group has been split down the middle. All because of her comment. As far as Janet and her husband go, my opinion is good riddance. But my husband is upset at me for causing a scene. Janet's husband is evidently not a racist and hubby and him have been friends 10 years or more. My opinion is he married a racist, so he is either a racist, or he doesn't care which is just as bad. So question of the day...who is right?

 

On a side note, John and Jane both called me the next day to say that they appreciate my standing up for them. It was not the first time it had happened to them, and noone had ever stood up like that before. They said they really didn't expect me too, to which I replied "Why not, you are my friend, I love you. I would defend you anytime." I apologized profusely for even having those people over, told them I had no clue, but they can rest assured I don't hang out with people like that. Told them I loved them, they told me they loved me, tears were shared, and a few laughs at how we should start up a gym for boxers and have me give lessons.

[LFM2 1,482]

Well, I was reading in this thread and figured, what the hell? Why not use it? Maybe venting here will keep me from finding a hole and crawling in it to escape the crap I seem to be attracting lately.

 

This is a great place to vent. I vent often.

 

Hubby and I argued last night.

We have a couple that we are really close to, and they are an african american couple. Gonna call em John and Jane. We love em to death. Problem...one of the couples that came to our house this weekend is evidently a complete racist. And we had our black friends there. We are all sitting there after having eaten, having a few drinks and laughs, when the next thing I hear is "I can't stand a F------ N-----" So I whip around to see who said it...my eyes meet John's, then Jane's, they are in utter shock. I look around and see "Janet" still running her mouth about N---- this and N---- that...Hubby is standing there oblivious to anything cause he is too busy talking about cars.

 

I never thought that Janet and her husband were this way. I truly hate hate hate racism. Its so small minded. So I walk right up to Janet, deciding to try and be polite, as I don't want to cause a scene and upset everyone. I tell her I think its time they went home, that if they needed a ride, I was willing to call them a cab or take them home myself, but they needed to leave. She actually asks why. DUH :rollseyes I told her to please leave, I would call her tommorrow, she insists, so I tell her what she said offended not only the other couple but me as well since they are my friends. I tell her I do not tolerate that kind of behavior in my home, and that if she cared to apologize she was welcome to but she was not welcome to stay. Hubby walks up, asks whats going one, Janet lights into him about how his wife is a "N--- loving Bitch, who would rather hang out with (various racist comments) than with real white people."

 

I hit her...oh god I did, I didn't mean to, I was just so mad. I kinda feel guilty about it because I hate fighting, but she had this one coming. I dragged her ass outta my house and told her to get lost...looked at her husband and asked him in the nicest voice if he needed assistance leaving as well. He just walked out.

 

So now, half of our friends are mad at us and the other half is mad at them, so our once close group has been split down the middle. All because of her comment. As far as Janet and her husband go, my opinion is good riddance. But my husband is upset at me for causing a scene. Janet's husband is evidently not a racist and hubby and him have been friends 10 years or more. My opinion is he married a racist, so he is either a racist, or he doesn't care which is just as bad. So question of the day...who is right?

 

On a side note, John and Jane both called me the next day to say that they appreciate my standing up for them. It was not the first time it had happened to them, and noone had ever stood up like that before. They said they really didn't expect me too, to which I replied "Why not, you are my friend, I love you. I would defend you anytime." I apologized profusely for even having those people over, told them I had no clue, but they can rest assured I don't hang out with people like that. Told them I loved them, they told me they loved me, tears were shared, and a few laughs at how we should start up a gym for boxers and have me give lessons.

 

I don't think you have one thing to be sorry for. You have every reason under the sun to escort someone out of your own house if their behaviour insists you do so. I sure hope your husband can understand why you threw Janet and her husband out. Well, you threw Janet out and her husband followed. What I don't understand, like you, is the small mindedness that goes along with this backward thinking. I too, abhor racism.

 

I can understand your frustration and your anger! I don't know if I would have struck out at her, but I know I would have raised my voice and probably escorted her to the door. If she resisted, I'm sure I would have used a little more persuasion. Yeah, I probably would have smacked her. It was totally wrong of Janet to even open her mouth. She had the option to keep her mouth shut or leave, but she seriously has some problems, IMHO -- either total ignorance or a total lack of social skills in which she really had to ask you for a reason to leave. I'm not understanding why the other half of your friends are mad at you? Did they side with Janet and her husband? Did they decide they didn't mind the way that Janet treated John and Jane?

 

Also, why is YOUR husband mad that YOU caused a scene? Does he condone the actions of Janet and her husband? Seriously, be glad that Janet and her husband are gone. If your husband and Janet's husband are so close, let them do their own thing. I agree that Janet's husband is racist as well for not saying anything. IMO, Your husband has no right to be mad at you. If you would have "ignored" Janet's comments, doesn't that make you just as guilty as her?

 

BTW, What the hell are "real white people"?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I don't think you have one thing to be sorry for. You have every reason under the sun to escort someone out of your own house if their behaviour insists you do so. I sure hope your husband can understand why you threw Janet and her husband out. Well, you threw Janet out and her husband followed. What I don't understand, like you, is the small mindedness that goes along with this backward thinking. I too, abhor racism.

 

I can understand your frustration and your anger! I don't know if I would have struck out at her, but I know I would have raised my voice and probably escorted her to the door. If she resisted, I'm sure I would have used a little more persuasion. Yeah, I probably would have smacked her. It was totally wrong of Janet to even open her mouth. She had the option to keep her mouth shut or leave, but she seriously has some problems, IMHO -- either total ignorance or a total lack of social skills in which she really had to ask you for a reason to leave. I'm not understanding why the other half of your friends are mad at you? Did they side with Janet and her husband? Did they decide they didn't mind the way that Janet treated John and Jane?

 

Also, why is YOUR husband mad that YOU caused a scene? Does he condone the actions of Janet and her husband? Seriously, be glad that Janet and her husband are gone. If your husband and Janet's husband are so close, let them do their own thing. I agree that Janet's husband is racist as well for not saying anything. IMO, Your husband has no right to be mad at you. If you would have "ignored" Janet's comments, doesn't that make you just as guilty as her?

 

BTW, What the hell are "real white people"?

 

Ditto to all of the above. You have nothing to be sorry for and YOUR husband should be standing beside you regardless of what happens or whether or not he really agrees with what you did. Should you have hit her? Maybe/maybe not but that's not the point, the point is that he should be standing WITH you even when he doesn't agree with you.

[prettylady 221]

Moonlightkisses,

Hows the hand?

Proud of you girl. I'm not a big fan of violence. (ya thats right, me prettylady is a lover first, fighter second). But that girl had it comin.

I wish I could have seen it.

Your friend,

Prettylady

[ShellyM 0]

Problem...one of the couples that came to our house this weekend is evidently a complete racist. And we had our black friends there. We are all sitting there after having eaten, having a few drinks and laughs, when the next thing I hear is "I can't stand a F------ N-----" So I whip around to see who said it...my eyes meet John's, then Jane's, they are in utter shock. I look around and see "Janet" still running her mouth about N---- this and N---- that...

I hit her...oh god I did, I didn't mean to, I was just so mad. I kinda feel guilty about it because I hate fighting, but she had this one coming. I dragged her ass outta my house and told her to get lost...looked at her husband and asked him in the nicest voice if he needed assistance leaving as well. He just walked out.

 

Okay, I'm not promoting violence..................but IMO she deserved to get her ass beat, and I would have slapped the living shit out of her myself had I heard her saying such crap. I cannot frickin stand a biggot and a racist. Dammit, you would think in this day we could get over this stuff! I absolutely REFUSE to teach this garbage to my children. As long as a man treats my daughter well and treats her like a lady, goes and works hard every day to take care of his family (and builds a house with a guest house for me), I don't care if his skin color is blue. I don't even know her and this pisses ME off! Okay, I'll stop ranting. You did RIGHT in my book, the B***** deserved even more if you ask me.

[prettylady 221]

Shelly,

Breath girl breath.

with me now in....out.....in....out.

Oh damn now I'm horney.

See ya all later

Your friend,

prettylady

[ShellyM 0]

Shelly,

Breath girl breath.

with me now in....out.....in....out.

Oh damn now I'm horney.

See ya all later

Your friend,

prettylady

 

HA! I told you not to do that dirty talkin before, didn't I?

[MoonLightKiss 28]

To answer some questions, LMF2, I am not sure what that woman meant by the "real white people" comment. Unless she meant that the only real people are white, or it was another dig to the husband of the black couple who's mother was white. My husband and I discussed it again last night. I asked him why he was upset with me over making a scene. Janet's comments is what caused the scene, and that right or wrong I stand behind my decision to throw her out of the house. He said that it made alot of people there uncomfortable. I told him so did Janet's comments. He sat back and realized where I was coming from and apologized. I also reitterated how I felt about the husband, and that I wanted neither one of them around me, my house, or my children. He understood and saw my point about how doing nothing makes someone just as guilty as the person commiting the crime. So that relationship is over.

 

As far as the friends of ours that are being split down the middle on opinions over this, some feel that Janet has a right to her opinion no matter how distasteful. So I called them, spoke with them, and told them all, that yes she has a right to her opinion. This is the US and we are free to do that, what we are not allowed to do, is enter someone's home, offend them, and expect nothing to be said. If they felt I overreacted, oh well, I apologize if my hitting her offended them, but I would not apologize for putting her out of my home, and if they were incapable of being my friend even if they don't agree with me, then I wish them all the best, and good bye.

 

Prettylady, my hand is fine btw. She had a marshmallow jaw. LOL Like you I hate fighting, I am more a lover. I felt horrible about hitting her as soon as I calmed down. Do I regret it? In some ways. I should have been able to control my temper better and not sink to her level. But damn, it felt nice taking a chunk out of a racist asshole. So I don't feel too bad about it, if that makes any sense.

 

Julie, I showed my husband this thread when the responses were made. I explained to him, that agree with me or not, he is my husband which means in public at least, he should be standing beside me, as I do him. He agreed that you were right. Even if he doesn't agree with me he should stand with me, and once we are behind closed doors if he feels I screwed up then we can talk about it.

[2jersey 16]

This is the US and we are free to do that, what we are not allowed to do, is enter someone's home, offend them, and expect nothing to be said.

 

Correct. Unfortunately, she was an invited guest and you may have used excessive force by hitting her. She can file criminal charges against you for battery. Surely it is best that your husband did not hit her in anger - he would probably be facing criminal charges for inflicting a traumatic injury without justifiable cause (a possible felony).

[lovinher 505]

You were much nicer than I would have been.

[WildMiCouple 325]

Moonlightkiss, I wouldn't have hit her(being a guy), but at the least I would have demanded an apology and shown her the door rather quickly. But I can understand why you smacked her Those are certainly "friends" you don't need. I still can't believe someone could be so utterly callous to make those comments while at your house as an invited guest

 

He understood and saw my point about how doing nothing makes someone just as guilty as the person commiting the crime. So that relationship is over.

I agree to a point. But didn't your husband not back you during the incident? That certainly doesn't mean he approves of her comments, does it? Although the girls husband didn't interject either, it doesn't necessarily make him a racist. Could be he just didn't want to make any bigger of a scene than it already was. Either way, I'm sure he'd be too embarrassed to continue his friendship with your husband anyway.

 

Brett

[ShellyM 0]

How are your friends doing, btw? I know everyone got so ticked off at that ladies big mouth, I forgot to ask how they are doing. I can imagine that they were completely humiliated, having been talked to that way in a group of people. Hopefully they understand that unfortunately, there are always idiots who are around. Hope they are okay.

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

Ok, I'm not a racist. To me a persons race provides only the beginning or a physical description and tells you nothing more about the person you're talking about. I also don't much care if a person harbors racist feelings. Their personal views are their own business. However, when a guest in MY home they will shut their noise hole about that crap or leave, one way or another. That goes double if they are insulting another guest with that bilge.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. Good job!

[Dooode 18]

MoonLightKiss:

 

I think you handled that well .. including how you handled your husband the following day! The ONLY thing that could've turned the night out differently, would've been talking to your husband FIRST before taking the trash out. The result would've been the same, but at least he could've seen how affected you were then taken action himself, perhaps with more of a cooler head.

 

But the object was getting the garbage gone and it was done, so good for you.

[2jersey 16]

Currently, there are thousands of angry people who want to kill the Pope as retribution for racially insensitive comments. To me, the attitude of these people is disgusting.

 

Frankly, it really surprises me that so many people on this board believe that violence is the most appropriate response to racially offensive language.

 

Sigh...

[Dynamar 246]

I'm certainly not condoning any violence. Striking her, in my opinion, was crossing the line... but up to that point, I felt that your actions were appropriate and wholly justified. The wisest thing to do when presented with people's racist views is confronting them head-on and rationally asking them to remove themselves from your presence... most especially in your own home. To have said nothing would be tantamount to agreement. It's too bad that it has caused division within your group of friends, but better the enemy that you know... I would think that you're better off without friends who would say nothing in the face of racism.

[WildMiCouple 325]

Currently, there are thousands of angry people who want to kill the Pope as retribution for racially insensitive comments. To me, the attitude of these people is disgusting.

 

Frankly, it really surprises me that so many people on this board believe that violence is the most appropriate response to racially offensive language.

 

Sigh...

Frankly....I don't see how a smack upside the head as a responce for both a personal attack on yourself and one's close friends in your own house relates to a call to kill someone But, that's just me. Again......not condoning it, but I certainly can understand it.

 

Brett

[2jersey 16]

Frankly....I don't see how a smack upside the head as a responce for both a personal attack on yourself and one's close friends in your own house relates to a call to kill someone But, that's just me. Again......not condoning it, but I certainly can understand it.

 

Brett

 

The so-called "personal attack" was 1) purely verbal, 2) non-threatening.

The response was 1) violent 2) excessive, and 3) illegal.

 

If you are not condoning the violent action, we are in agreement. I understand the emotion involved. And I believe every action up to that point was justified.

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

Currently, there are thousands of angry people who want to kill the Pope as retribution for racially insensitive comments. To me, the attitude of these people is disgusting.

 

Frankly, it really surprises me that so many people on this board believe that violence is the most appropriate response to racially offensive language.

 

Sigh...

 

The person in question was asked to leave because they were being offencive. Instead of heading for the door they launched into another offencive diatribe.

Using force in response to offencive comments isn't justified. Using force to eject a person from your home when they've been asked to leave and didn't is perfectly justified.

[2jersey 16]

The person in question was asked to leave because they were being offencive. Instead of heading for the door they launched into another offencive diatribe.

Using force in response to offencive comments isn't justified. Using force to eject a person from your home when they've been asked to leave and didn't is perfectly justified.

 

Unlawful trespass would provide the homeowner with the right to evict the guest. But the circumstances here suggest that the honeowner acted out of anger towards the guest.

 

In her own words:

I hit her...oh god I did, I didn't mean to, I was just so mad. I kinda feel guilty about it because I hate fighting, but she had this one coming.

 

The law says you can't slug someone because they have pissed you off.

[intuition897 2,179]

I've never been in a real physical fight in my life, but I think, once I got over the shock and disbelief that someone who said this was actually serious, I would be VERY tempted to lay her out flat on the living room floor. In reality, I probably wouldn't have touched her, but I sure would've liked to!

 

MoonLight, you done good. This kind of blatant disrepect for others is like fingernails clawing down a chalkboard for me. My father is a racist, as were my grandparents and my Dad's entire side of the family. I grew up in an all white community, so I never saw a black person in daily life until I was well into high school. Because of this, I never saw my Dad's racist streak. There was no opportunity to teach me to be a racist, thank God. So I grew up seeing it the way kids do: as a curiosity. Put two differently complected babies in the same play pen and for the first five minutes they will look one another over with fascination because of the difference. Then they forget all about it, start seeing their similiarities, and start playing. I just can't comprehend how someone can really, truly, honestly believe that ethnicity has anything to do with a person's worth. If anything, their views and behaviour define their worth, and IMO, saying that there's "room for improvement" may be the understatement of the year.

 

Infuriating.

[LFM2 1,482]

To answer some questions, LMF2, I am not sure what that woman meant by the "real white people" comment. Unless she meant that the only real people are white, or it was another dig to the husband of the black couple who's mother was white. My husband and I discussed it again last night. I asked him why he was upset with me over making a scene. Janet's comments is what caused the scene, and that right or wrong I stand behind my decision to throw her out of the house. He said that it made alot of people there uncomfortable. I told him so did Janet's comments. He sat back and realized where I was coming from and apologized. I also reitterated how I felt about the husband, and that I wanted neither one of them around me, my house, or my children. He understood and saw my point about how doing nothing makes someone just as guilty as the person commiting the crime. So that relationship is over.

 

I'm glad that your husband has seen the light. He put the blame where the blame belongs and little miss Janet has to take ownership of her racial outburst. It impacted the whole party, yet I still think you handled it well. What I am sorry about is that your guests had to witness the whole thing. Yes, you invited her into your home, and she insulted you and your guests. There are consequences to every action. Sometimes, people just HATE those consequences.

 

As far as the friends of ours that are being split down the middle on opinions over this, some feel that Janet has a right to her opinion no matter how distasteful. So I called them, spoke with them, and told them all, that yes she has a right to her opinion. This is the US and we are free to do that, what we are not allowed to do, is enter someone's home, offend them, and expect nothing to be said. If they felt I overreacted, oh well, I apologize if my hitting her offended them, but I would not apologize for putting her out of my home, and if they were incapable of being my friend even if they don't agree with me, then I wish them all the best, and good bye.

 

You're right, Janet does have her opinion, and this is the good ole' US of A, yet, someone does not have the right to hurt anothers feelings. She could have kept her opinion to herself. JMHO.

 

Good for you and I LOVE your attitude.

You did good.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Striking her, in my opinion, was crossing the line...

I agree.

 

What Janet did was wrong, and asking her to leave was right. However, there was no reason to take the confrontation to a physical level. It only made you look bad in the eyes of your friends and brought you down to Janet's level of inapproriate behavior.

 

Some of your friends may now view you as a person who has a violent temper, the friend who will slap people when she doesn't like what they say or do.

 

LM

[EvilMJ 65]

Yeah I have to agree with Dynamar and Likeminds. I think you were doing good up until the hitting part. But you also stated how you regretted it and realize your mistake.

 

I have learned the hard way through a friend of our family that no matter how much someone is goading you with verbal attacks, attacking them phsycially will only hurt you in the end. One night while waiting for a cab our friend was being tormented by a guy who is known around town as being a complete ass, he turned around and punched the guy. Our friend is now awaiting trial because the guy he punched hit the pavement, and died due to a head injury. His intent was not to kill him, probably he just got angry about something he said and lashed out, now he has a criminal record and could be going to jail.

 

Obviously this woman was not hit hard enough to cause much injury, but she has every right to lay charges.

 

I don't personally put up with racist comments in my home, they would have been told to leave, if she continued to go on I would have spoken to my husband and told him to have his friends go as they were no longer welcome. I would not have cared what kind of scene it made. You were 100% correct in that regard.

[2jersey 16]

MoonLight, you done good.

 

intuition, I never would have imagined you as an advocate for the use of violence.

[Chicup 42]

There are times when violence is justified in my opinion and that can be for offensive behavior. It might not be 'legal' but there are times when someone earns a punch in the mouth. Perhaps this is barbaric but I don't have an issue with it.

 

You were put in a bad position. Had they been saying nigger this and nigger that (if we can say fuck on this board I think we can say nigger with blocking it out) and your friends not heard them, you could have taken them aside and asked them if they could tone it down for the party.

 

Since your dear friends were witness to it you couldn't just ask them to not bring up their racist feelings, everything was already uncomfortable.

 

People do hate being called out so your racist friends comment about 'real white people' was more due to being hurt than anything else. You are at a party and suddenly the host asks you to leave, no matter how justified that host is you are going to feel hurt.

 

Perhaps the best thing diplomatically would have been to ask her into another room and then confront her on the issue. Its the reprimand in public that makes it sting so much, even if its justified.

 

Now I would not have hit her, but I'm one of those slow to anger types. I also, had I been a friend of yours there, would not have faulted you for doing so under the circumstances.

 

2’js – The tie in with the Pope is a good point but I see a key difference here being the heat of the moment and premeditated ‘outrage’. Were she to continue to want to hit her former friend, and tried to encourage others to hit her former friend, then we would have a true tie in.

[Dooode 18]

There are times when violence is justified in my opinion and that can be for offensive behavior. It might not be 'legal' but there are times when someone earns a punch in the mouth. Perhaps this is barbaric but I don't have an issue with it."

I know this runs against the general opinion of the respondees for this topic, but I have to concur with Chicup on this statement.

 

MoonLightKiss gave every opportunity to quell the situation and even stated should "Janet" apologize to her friends she could stay. She WAS slow to anger and she was controlling herself quite admirably.

 

"Hubby walks up, asks whats going one, Janet lights into him about how his wife is a "N--- loving Bitch, who would rather hang out with (various racist comments) than with real white people."

 

If I were MoonLightKiss, I would've snapped and whipped my hand right across that bitch's face too. I'm sorry, but there IS a point where mild violence is justified (and realistically, it was mild).

 

While it takes two rational people to make an agreement work, where one is being completely irrational to the point of actively being destructive to others, drastic measures have to occur to end that harm.

 

Ordinarily I wouldn't condone violence. It probably would've been better that the husband handled it. But since that's not what occurred and MoonLightKiss had the reins, she did what she had to do to get her message of peace to sink in.

 

I wouldn't regret hurting another in a *just* cause. I don't think she should either.

[2jersey 16]

I hear you Chiccup and Doode, points well taken.

 

Mr2j volunteers part of his time providing courthouse assistance to (female) victims of domestic violence. In our opinion, you are crossing into unacceptable territory when you elevate a verbal disagreement to a violent attack. Verbal abuse and insults are inexcuseable, but violence is not an appropriate response - we have zero tolerance for the aggressor.

 

According to OP (in reference to her black friends):

It was not the first time it had happened to them, and noone had ever stood up like that before.

 

Try to Imagine what would happen if OP's friends went through life by hitting each person who offended them with vulgar racial comments. Would they be better off?

 

OP came very close to exhibiting exemplary behavior - but she crossed over the line when she became violent.

[LOL_OMG 130]

I maybe would have said, "Oh really? Cause I heard your real father was a N.." and wait for her to swing first. Then you could have pummelled at will

[intuition897 2,179]

intuition, I never would have imagined you as an advocate for the use of violence.

 

Perhaps I should've added something upon re-reading my post.

 

No, I don't advocate for the use of violence. I meant, "you done good" by doing the "unthinkable" and standing up for your friends even though it caused a scene. I can certainly understand how Janet's behaviour would cause anyone to want to lash out physically at her, just as I understand how it happens that babies are shaken and kids are beaten. I don't condone it, and I don't do it, but I see how it can happen however wrong it may be.

 

I don't encourage my kids to be violent but we have told them that it IS okay to defend yourself however you can. My daughter was not once but TWICE held down and choked on the school playground at her old school (bad neighbourhood...we moved). We told her that ANYTIME someone physically threatens you, it's okay to do whatever you can to protect yourself.

 

Just a commentary: while it would be ideal to have a society without violence, it's highly unrealistic. And just because the law says that no one is supposed to touch you, no matter how big an asshole you are to other people, it's pretty stupid to think that behaviour like that is not going to get you a swat. I keep telling my daughter this, too! She is a certifiable pain in the ass, and teases her brother relentlessly. When she's mad about something, when she's bored, etc, she takes it out on her brother. Think: 200 mile trip of "I'm not touching you I'm not touching you I'm not touching you" punctuated by shouts of "D---- STOP IT!" The car usually stops several times, and I'm hoarse from yelling at them by the end of the trip. But she continues on and on because she knows no one will physically hurt her. I have warned her about how dangerous this thinking is, and that rubbing someone's nose in their impotence to do anything about her behaviour is only going to make them more LIKELY to hurt her. I said to her that her brother is going to be bigger than her someday, and if she keeps it up, right or wrong, he may be provoked into hitting her. And it's gonna hurt, and she's gonna bleed. It may be wrong, and he'll be punished...but it's not going to change the fact that she's still bleeding. And he may consider the punishment to be worth the satisfaction.

 

Stress: an emotional state arising from being denied the satisfaction of kicking the ass of someone who needs it very very badly.

 

Think I saw it on a bumper sticker somewhere or something.

[MoonLightKiss 28]

Shelly, you asked if my friends Jane and John are okay after being so horribly insulted. To answer, yes, they are fine. Its not the first time they have been insulted like that, and unfortunately it may not be the last. But we have talked daily since the event, and they are fine. They are taking things in stride and have been very understanding and gracious.

 

Some people here do not condone the violence part of the evening. To make it clear, I realized after I had calmed down that I made a mistake. I do not normally condone violence unless it is in self defense. I have no problem standing up and saying I made a mistake when I do make one. I should not have hit her. It lowered my standards when I did, and I sunk to her level. Was it wrong? absolutely.

 

I will not defend my actions. It was wrong, and there is no defense. Could she have pressed charges? Yes, she could have, for the slap only. Where I live I would have been charged with 4th degree assault, told to pay a fine and take anger management classes for 6 months. I have always believed that if you do the crime, be prepared to do the time. Had she pressed charges...I would have pled guilty, told my side of the story and took the consequences without flinching.

 

I do believe in expectations. If I was acting like that in someones home, and when I was called on it and politely asked to leave (quietly btw because i was trying to avoid a scene altogether, and noone heard me ask her to leave until she started her rant) and then I showed my ass completely, insulting the hostess...shoving my finger into the host's chest while trying to insult his wife, I would expect it. Would it be right? no. Should I expect it? yep, I would expect it.

[edmustang 19]

I'm going to have to agree with Intuition, Dooode, and Chicup on this one. Whereas I absolutely agree that violence should be avoided because 1) it's rude, and 2) it can get out of hand pretty quickly; it's also a natural human reaction to perceived threat or sudden outrage. I think she just acted instinctively.

 

I had a vaguely similar incident happen to me. A longtime friend informed me that since my (female) housemate showed interest in a black man, he now considered her as much of a n----- as the black man was. Fortunately for both of us it was through email, because had he done it in that company, I probably would have popped him one! No, I'm no longer friends with him. At that moment it became obvious to me that if I stayed friends with him I could have no other friends. I think the same would have been true for MoonLightKiss and Karen.

[JP51 40]

I bet you were as shock as they were when you reached out an touch them...sometimes you can't control the action of the hand. I would never say I would never do it...that is reach out and slap some since into someone who acted this way.

 

Now your true friends are going to come out! Count me in your court... I can not stand people who can who can not get past the color of skin!

[ShellyM 0]

Yes, I have to agree that violence is not the answer. Would I have probably slapped her as well? I'd be lying if I said no. However, although a civilized society should be above violent reactions, sometimes when people act simply stupid you have to just let them know. I think it is very unfortunate that John and Jane are "used to it", which tells me that they have experienced racism many times before. How sad. I'm glad that they have thick skin regarding such things (forgive the pun), but I hope that soon no people will have to "get used" to such vile treatment. I just hate stupidity, thats what gets me worked up. My mother is mexican american, and of dark color. For someone to think that they are better than my mother simply because their skin has less melanin than hers really gets my blood to boiling. Okay, let me shut up lol. I'm glad they are doing okay, for what its worth.

[sereneiders 263]

I believe you're right. Anyone is right to stand for his/her feelings! And this Janet was trying to push you over the edge by asking you to reasure your friendhip with her by leaving aside your personal values. It doesn't matter even if your values are the rith or the wrong ones, in my book this is enough to buy her a ticket out from my home.

 

However, I guess I understand where your husband anger comes from, and it's from the fact that her husband is a great friend of him. I believe that, in this scenario, he deserved the chance of choosing the way to deal with the situation: it's his right to choose if he want to keep him as a friend, or the way he want this frienship to change and adapt to the fact that his wife isn't welcome anymore in (also) his house.

 

Of course, I can say this AFTERWARDS, it's easy, the problem is to be in your shoes while taking the violence from this situation, and in a hurry to solve the prolem. No one could ask you to take another approach like calling your hubby aside, telling him what's going on as for him to run away his friend and his friend "pretty wife". In any case, that would make it evident that this "lady" was the one risking to spoil a friendship with her behavior.

 

In any case, no one should blame you for your reaction. The fact is, disregarding the difference of values, she was supposed to be respectfull with the other guests by saving his toughts for herself or leaving, she was supposed to be respectfull of her husband frienship with your husband, and she is the one who wants to divide an conquer, blackmailing everyone around to loose the friendship if they don't endorse her toughts (and perhaps, even wanting to isolate her husband from his friends).

 

IMO, this is what have to be pointed out among your friends to give this a closure, in such a way that no one would doub't who's right and who's wrong here.

 

And notice that I didn't mention racism so far, this isn't a matter of racism, and bringing the race subject to this discussion would be preciselly what this lady wants to happen. It's a matter of "your values", whatever they were, and the basic requirement anyone have for his/her values to be respected as to be able to hang up with, or to be friend of this one, and your values were pretty obvius for evey guest there. Anyone can disagree with your values, but in order to respect you (and in this case, and more important, her own husband), she can claim she forgot the milk in the fire and get her ass out of your place.

 

You're right, but please, don't fall in the trick of making of this a question of racism.

[deanncat 25]

ok dean here i am proably gonna catch hell for this oh well

you ask her to leave she did not at that point whatever it takes to get someone like that the hell out of my house. She got what she deserved! Peace the superior firepower

[2jersey 16]

I believe you're right. Anyone is right to stand for his/her feelings!

 

Uh, and what happens when people start hitting back?

[prettylady 221]

There could be a good chance we are making a mountain out of a mole hill here.

Moonlightkisses slapped the bitch. If MLK's close fisted the woman, then I could see the debate. The woman crossed the line repeatedly. Moonlight, I know it is hard when you do something out of character, and I beleive it is out of character, but you did what you felt you needed to do at the time. One action will not define who you are as a person. It is the repeat offenders that need to be told right from wrong. Don't dwell or beat yourself up over it.

Lesson learned, leave it at that.

 

It takes a big person to admit when they have done something wrong. Although I don't think you were wrong.

Your friend,

Prettylady

[jandg 25]

intuition, I never would have imagined you as an advocate for the use of violence.

How about Mohandas Ghandi as an advocate for violence?

Where choice is set between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence... I prefer to use arms in defense of honor rather than remain the vile witness of dishonor..."

Better far than cowardice is killing and being killed in battle.

There are times when violence is the right choice.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Edmund Burke

You stood up for your friends, in your home. I'm on MLK's side.

[2jersey 16]

I'm on MLK's side.

 

And that puts you (and several others) in limbo - given that MLK acknowledges that she was wrong to use violence in a non-defensive situation:

 

To make it clear, I realized after I had calmed down that I made a mistake. I do not normally condone violence unless it is in self defense.

 

Hey, no one was physically injured - the men did not get directly involved - and the victim did not press criminal charges or hit back. I hope the rest of you "sluggers" are equally fortunate if/when the time comes.

 

I hope MLK is healing her Karma - she seems like a great person (who happened to make one tiny mistake).

[prettylady 221]

 

Hey, no one was physically injured - the men did not get directly involved - and the victim did not press criminal charges or hit back. I hope the rest of you "sluggers" are equally fortunate if/when the time comes.

 

I hope MLK is healing her Karma - she seems like a great person (who happened to make one tiny mistake).

 

 

I am pretty sure we all agree that violence isn't the way, I remember saying that part clearly.

I simply don't think MLK should waste another minute concerning herself with what happened. I support her because I understand what she was feeling. The woman was so far out of line I am sure she would never found her way back in.

If MLK was bragging about beating this woman down I am cetain she would have not gotten the same support.

Please don't refer to me as a slugger. I don't care for violence, never have, never will. You assume way too much here with such a statement.

I fight in the ring, I will fight out of the ring if I am threatened. These are the only two times I will fight.

Don't you worry one more minute about what would happen if ever I find myself in a fight. I think I can handle myself. Fists are not the only way to handle someone who is out of line. They are the last resort for me not the first.

 

I am pretty sure the others who care more about MLK's fellings then the fact that she hit someone would likely be put out by being called sluggers aswell.

[SuAndBud 23]

Both of us are Buddhist (don't worry, we don't chant and all that stuff ).

 

Buddhists (to varying degree) turn the other cheek.

 

We don't kill or hurt any creature (mentally or physically) unless:

 

1) It's a threat.

2) It's food.

3) It's annoying to the Nth degree.

 

Throughout our lives, we can count on one hand the times we've actually struck someone either deffensively or as the physical (not necessarily mental) aggressor. It would take more than two hands to count the times we haven't struck someone who probably "deserved" it.

 

It appears this particular lady was given each and every opportunity to stop her outrageous talk and her partner was present, also, who failed to react in a proper and civilised way to her unacceptable behaviour. Indeed, we are told she was asked to leave this person's property and responded with yet more verbal nastiness. Even if you are right, you have to leave when requested (no means no, yeah? Go means go, too!).

[sereneiders 263]

Uh, and what happens when people start hitting back?

 

My point is, it doesn't make sense to appologize for your values. If you do, then you're challenging or undermining them (and it is something that may happen, but in this scenario it wouldn't).

 

As an attept to be asceptic about this, I'll diregard the values "content", because I share MoonLightKiss ones regarding racism. Whatever values you have, you have the right to stand for them (hopefuly, if you don't share mines, then you have the right to choose to chage them as well).

 

So, let's revert the scenario here. Let's say I attend a dinner, and I realize in the middle of it that I am surrounded by the KKK, inlcuding the hosts. I have three things to do: show my disagreenment, shut up and let them talk, or leave the place. Let's suppose I show my disagreenment (being peolite, or as this lady did, unpolitely) and the host ask me to leave. I have to leave. Period. If I don't, I am asking someone to kick me out.

 

Now, this isn't a matter of who's right and who's wrong. We may comment on this lady values, e.g. the racism, but as an aside. The host ask you to leave, and you leave, even if the host were wrong. If you don't, you're provoking an even more violent reaction, and you have no right to whin about it later.

 

In any case, this lady would be happy to know the outcome from her missbehavior is a discussion about racism in a swingers board (or among the friends circle), and because of this I wanted to point out that the problem here was her missbehavior, and MoonLightKiss shouldn't allow the discussion to fall into the racial topic.

[sereneiders 263]

3) It's annoying to the Nth degree.

 

I like this one!

[2jersey 16]

...

In any case, this lady would be happy to know the outcome from her missbehavior is a discussion about racism in a swingers board (or among the friends circle), and because of this I wanted to point out that the problem here was her missbehavior, and MoonLightKiss shouldn't allow the discussion to fall into the racial topic.

 

Huh? I thought this was a discussion of the merits of hitting a person who provoked your anger with vulgar and offensive racial language.

 

My view: Violence as a last resort, verbal retort and ostracism as a preferred alternative.

 

sereneiders, I know English is a problem for you - perhaps you should read more carefully and attempt to write more succinctly and with greater brevity? (rhetorical question)

[MoonLightKiss 28]

In any case, this lady would be happy to know the outcome from her missbehavior is a discussion about racism in a swingers board (or among the friends circle), and because of this I wanted to point out that the problem here was her missbehavior, and MoonLightKiss shouldn't allow the discussion to fall into the racial topic.

 

 

So, let me get this straight. Because at this moment, I am confused. You say that the problem is the misbehavior. And that I shouldn't ALLOW this to fall into a discussion of racial topics? Could you please explain how this in not race related? The entire behavior from this woman was about racial slurs. The entire reason she was asked to leave was because of the racial slurs. The entire reason for her getting shown the door was because of racial slurs. Had it not been for the racial slurs, she would not have been shown the door. So explain to me how this doesn't fall under a racial topic.

[Dooode 18]

Could you please explain how this in not race related? The entire behavior from this woman was about racial slurs. The entire reason she was asked to leave was because of the racial slurs. The entire reason for her getting shown the door was because of racial slurs. Had it not been for the racial slurs, she would not have been shown the door. So explain to me how this doesn't fall under a racial topic.

Yes, but is this a fact? If your guests were your very best lifelong friends and they were heavy set, would you have tolerated "Janet" acting the same way?

 

The point being that the topic evolved into been about a number of circumstances involving a guest who was loud, obnoxious and insulting to you and your guests. If this was ONLY about a racist issue, then you are as much a racist as they are (only you swing it in the other direction).

[MoonLightKiss 28]

oooooooohhh ok...now I see the point. I was understanding it to mean something else entirely. Or maybe it was that two hours sleep last night that had me not reading correctly...darn glasses probably need to be checked again lol...

 

While I thouroughly enjoy sereneiders' posts, I sometimes get lost in the translation...so my apologies for misunderstanding.

 

Although, I am not sure about your question. Would I have tolerated this behavior if circumstances were different? No, I wouldn't. Racism is racism, regardless of company or surrounding people. If it had just been me and her in the room when she said it, I would have told her straight up, I do not tolerate that behavior in my home, told her to leave. I once read that Integrity is something you do even when noone is looking. In this situation even if noone had been looking, I would have still asked her to leave.

[Dooode 18]

[jandg 25]

I hope the rest of you "sluggers" are equally fortunate if/when the time comes.

 

In my 5+ decades on this planet, I have stood up against those who choose to to impose themselves on others that were unable to stand up for themselves. Sometimes I accomplished this by word, other times times by deed. I do not advocate violence, nor condone it for its own sake, but I am able and willing to deliver if necessary.

 

Sometimes, violence is necessary. Each of us has to make the choice of when.