Is SLS a good site for single males?

[Rocky146 15]

Here is my rant and it very well may get me kicked out of sls. I think sls discriminates a lot towards single men. I went to fill out a personal ad and they kick back to me that it is required for single men to become paying members within 30 days and that they only allow a few select men into the site. So I went and logged in as a single female, guess what? It did not pertain to them that they had to become a paid member within 30 days and that only a select few single females were allowed in.

 

What is it? Men are not considered swingers if they are not married? I think it is because a lot of these groups that calls themselves swinger groups consider single men predators without even getting to know the man. Men are men if they are married, attached, single, or whatever you want to classify men by. Personalities are different in each and every person rather they are married or what, female or male. I would suggest a name change of the group to something like Couples Only Swing Group. Then there would not be an argument from me here!!

 

Get real people; get to know the people before you discriminate against them!!! I do not go through life intentionally discriminating against others and in turn I do not like to be discriminated against!!! I have read numerous posts on this site already how people flake out on meetings, my answer to them that are complaining about this is no wonder they flake out if they support discrimination, you do not meet their standards!!

[Thrax 384]

Read these two threads:

 

The Plight of the Single Male

 

Are Singles Really Swingers

 

Those two threads, some threads that are linked in posts on those two strings, and quite a few other threads which I've not bothered to dredge up deal with this issue.

 

The supply of single males greatly outnumbers demand in swinging. There are way too many of us. Many -- most likely a majority -- of swingers don't even consider us to actually be swingers. Those and other things make it difficult for single males to meet and play with swingers, but they don't make it impossible. There are swingers who look for single males.

 

I never used SLS or other ad sites but gradually worked my way into the swinging world through clubs that allowed single males and by joining some Yahoo Groups devoted to swinging. It is a bit more work, but a single male can connect with some couples who are looking for the extra guy. And it might take awhile to establish yourself.

 

I used to rant a little about the lack of inclusion, too, but it's better for me to expend my effort toward meeting the people who are interested in meeting me, rather than complaining about the situation. And I also found that being friendly and polite to swingers who are not interested in single males actually resulted in some referrals to couples who were interested in meeting me.

 

So I might not be considered a swinger, and some swingers are disdainful, dismissive, and even scared of me (or my "type"), but I have found some nice folks who let me get my freak on with them every so often.

[Sweet_Candy 54]

Great suggestions for a fellow single guy Thrax. I believe you're right when you suggest stop whining and work with what you get. What you get may not be much but it must be better than nothing since so many single males think Swinging is for them.

[good times 991]

Thrax's post pretty much covers it, but I just wanted to add that sights like SLS cater to what their customers want. Their are far more singles add sights than sights like SLS on the internet. You don't see us complaining about how the singles add sights discriminate against couples though, because like single males on sights like SLS, couples just aren't in as much demand on singles adds sights as singles are. Therefore, it really isn't discrimination at all, it is just that they are targeting their product to their customers requirements. They know that if the sight is flooded with single males the couples will leave.

 

A good example of this problem is happening right now with one of our local clubs. They do not limit the number of single males that attend their parties and a single male pays the same admission as the couples do. Over the last three or four parties the number of single males has risen dramatically, and now the number of couples attending has started to decline. We stopped by their party last weekend and their were about 20 single males and only five or six couples there before we left, prior to this influx of single males, they used to get about 20-30 couples attending each night. The reason for this is that the swinger community here is small, and the word is out that this club is being overrun with single males, so the couples are not going anymore.

 

Are all these couples discriminating against these single males? Maybe, kind of like I discriminate against anchovies on my pizza. You see, I don't care for anchovies, not because anchovies are bad, they just aren't my thing.

[Califblonde 15]

Kinda explains why there are so many single guys that put up a couples profile on SLS, Doesn't it?

[Thrax 384]

good times said:

Are all these couples discriminating against these single males? Maybe, kind of like I discriminate against anchovies on my pizza. You see, I don't care for anchovies, not because anchovies are bad, they just aren't my thing.

GT, your barely concealed hatred for anchovies is a sign you are probably overcompensating by ordering EXTRA LARGE pizzas. Admit it, you fantasize about those salty, fishy chunks! Nobody totally hates anchovies; everyone at least dreams of putting an anchovy on his or her tongue...

 

Whoops. Sorry. Wrong issue.

 

Anyway, GT, I agree with your major point, but I don't think your analogy to singles sites is germane. Singles sites generally cater to singles. You might have cheating marrieds on the sites, but they must masquerade as singles. The sites are designed for singles.

 

As we know from many discussions on this Board, the definition of "swinger" is a little bit more fluid. Some folks restrict swinging to couples. Some include singles, both male and female. Whether or not you consider a single a swinger, there is a significant minority of couples seeking single females, and a smaller group that looks for single men. So, I think it is valid to give single males (and single females) access to the swinging sites as integral parts, but not equally desirable parts, of SwingWorld, whereas couples per se should really have no legitimate part of singles sites.

 

But, that wasn't the issue I really wanted to address. I think you made a very good point about what is happening with your local club. Methinks the same thing would happen to SLS -- and similar ad sites -- if they did not "discriminate" against single males with regard to pricing structure. The site would be overwhelmed by single males, the "bad boys" would harass the couples and single females to distraction, and the harassed parties would leave for other sites that allowed them to avoid most of the harassment. The result would be a lot of lonely guys trying to collect pics from other lonely guys masquerading as couples and single females, and most of the remaining couples and single females suffering barrages of unwanted advances.

 

It may seem contradictory, but sites like SLS actually do serious, responsible swinger-seeking males a favor. A single male may have to pay more, and suffer some restrictions, but he then has access to a site where a lot of couples and single females feel comfortable, and a part of that group might actually be happy to hear from him. That would be in contrast to free-for-all "equal-payments-for-equal-access" sites where a single male may be fighting 80% of the rest of the site members (other single males) for the couples and single females who decide to stay.

 

I belong to an on-premise club in the Pittsburgh area. The annual fee is $50 and the usual party door-fee is $75 for single males for regular parties and $100 for special events. The fee for couples is usually $65 for regular parties and $75 for special events. Single females, as you might expect, never shell out more than $20 for a party. Does this discriminate against single males? Well, yeah. But with the price, and the restrictions on the number of single males allowed for each party, it means that most of the couples and single females feel comfortable (there will always be those who don't want ANY single males in the club) and I have a lot less competition at each party.

 

One local club -- although they did not have an annual fee -- was charging $125 to $150 per party for a single male! (Although it wouldn't surprise me that the owner would let his single male friends in for a lot less, if not free.) Needless to say, I don't consider that reasonable. So that club, although it's a great facility and I've had wonderful times there in the past when the single male fee was much lower, is not a place I go to anymore.

 

Again, I don't like the discrimination because it costs me more and limits my opportunities But I understand the reasoning behind it.

 

I find MFMs a lot of fun. It's something that's kinky and sometimes I learn something. I also enjoy the exhibitionistic aspect of that situation, as well as MFMs and the rare semi-public one-on-one encounters with single women at clubs. These are things that I can do every six or eight weeks and they are spicy alternatives to vanilla dating. So I guess this is a "hobby" of mine, and since it isn't a primary focus of my life, I'm willing to accept the restrictions as what they are: sometimes a hindrance, sometimes a help.

[good times 991]

Califblonde said:

Kinda explains why there are so many single guys that put up a couples profile on SLS, Doesn't it?

Yeah, but it has been my experience that when you click on the, "Tell support to review this profile, it has problems." link and include a copy of the "My girlfriend is out of town indefinitely, but she likes me to fuck others while she is away, you must be discrete." email, they give them the boot pretty quick.

[good times 991]

Thrax said:

GT, your barely concealed hatred for anchovies is a sign you are probably overcompensating by ordering EXTRA LARGE pizzas. Admit it, you fantasize about those salty, fishy chunks! Nobody totally hates anchovies; everyone at least dreams of putting an anchovy on his or her tongue...

 

Whoops. Sorry. Wrong issue.

Ahem...poor anchovies, they are so misunderstood.

 

Thrax said:

Anyway, GT, I agree with your major point, but I don't think your analogy to singles sites is germane. Singles sites generally cater to singles. You might have cheating marrieds on the sites, but they must masquerade as singles. The sites are designed for singles.

I think my point was that each type of sight gives the appropriate amount of access needed for the clientele they desired. Then again, upon rereading what I wrote, you are probably right, I could have picked a better analogy. All is good in the end though, you cleared up the point I was trying to make nicely.

[Dooode 18]

Well I happen to like anchovies. They sure kick up the flavour on a Greek salad!

 

Back to the original topic:

 

Rockme, you have to understand that there are a lot of wannabes out there in SwingLand. Single males and trolls take up a big chunk of that number. IMHO, newbie single males seem to have some psycho idea that swinging is some kinda free-for-all with others' wives, which we both know that is not the case.

 

So how do you weed out the fakes and wannabes from those who are serious? Make 'em pay. It works at swing clubs, it can work on swing sites. I would do the same thing.

 

I've been a paid member of SLS for the past two years. I only recently let my membership lapse to a free status because 1) I ask others to contact me first so I'm not "hunting" for prospects, and 2) I've only ever paid so I can play on their forums. But their forums are so cliquish, and it being mostly a northeastern public, I've long since lost the pleasure in participating.

 

If I were forced to pay, sure I would. I've been on a dozen swing sites (5 at a time at one point!) and SLS has been the very best for bi-couple contact. It is EXTREMELY bi-couple friendly, which makes it a pleasure to be. My second day as a member, I was invited to a bi-couple house party. And what a way to say hello!!!!

 

But if you browse their forums, you'll see what I mean. The Bi-male and bi-couple forums have high response rates, comparable to most of their other forums--with the exception of their Open Forum, of course.

 

Anyway.

 

Swinging is PRIMARILY an activity of couples. Singles (both male and female) are ENHANCEMENTS to the already existing scene. However, single females are so rare, it's an encouragement for other single females to join by making it free for them. Single males are such an abundance, you want to weed out the serious from the fakes.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

For the record, SLS and the Swingers Board are NOT the same site, we are affiliated in that this site promotes SLS along with several other swingers personal ads sites that we feel are of high quality. There are lots of sites out there and they don't all work well for everyone so it's up to you to find the one that is best suited to your needs and your area.

[JTcamp05 9]

you ask.....

Quote

Men are not considered swingers if they are not married?

 

Yeah that's about right. Single man are welcomed in some situations... I wouldn't say they are "swingers". I personaly have no problems with single men around, just they are not swingers. If you bring a partner to "swing" with then you are a swinger, if you come alone you are not. Let's just call it what it is, you can be a friend or a lover but ya can't swing alone.

[Amanda69 24]

Singles are Toys, couples are swingers...

[Dooode 18]

I once heard the term swingles, which I thought sounded appropriate.

[sexyshelby 19]

Interesting point, Amanda. I like it!

[havefuninsun 122]

Yep -- I agree with everyone -- supply and demand. Good luck, though!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Another good way to look at it....

 

Can a couple swing without a single?

Can a single swing without a couple?

[Thrax 384]

Amanda69 said:

Singles are Toys, couples are swingers...

So you're saying I'm not a swinger, but I could be a toy. In my book, that's okay, as long as I can find someone to play with me...

[Dooode 18]

Rockme:

 

hahahaha I never said you were a single male! You said " I think sls discriminates a lot towards single men." and I responded to that thought.

 

I also said, "Swinging is primarily an activity of couples" and that singles (both male and female) are ENHANCEMENTS to the already existing scene.

 

Sorry if you felt I was picking on you.

 

And lastly (to Julie), that is a good way to look at it, but regardless "swinger" is still the hat that a single wears. He/she follows the same swing lifestyle rules. The ones that don't always seem to get into trouble.

 

A lone man wearing a fireman's hat is still a fireman and he is capable of out fires. All he needs is to join a department so he can do it better! haha

[Rockme 15]

Dooode said:

Rockme:

 

hahahaha I never said you were a single male! You said " I think sls discriminates a lot towards single men." and I responded to that thought.

 

I also said, "Swinging is primarily an activity of couples" and that singles (both male and female) are ENHANCEMENTS to the already existing scene.

 

Sorry if you felt I was picking on you.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

[curiousagain 326]

I think the OP has pretty much been answered except for one thing. Nobody ever promised anybody a rose garden. This isn't the first time I've seen a SM complain because they had to pay something a SF didn't. Well, it's kind of like the real world, isn't it?

 

The cost of being on a site should come from the petty cash part of your hobby budget. If it has to come from the capital expenditure part of your hobby budget, you're in over your head before you get started. I tend to avoid free members, SF or couples, swing or vanilla sites, partly for that reason. Primarily because they could be a 16 year old pretending to be something they aren't. I'm not discriminating, I've just learned that ignoring free members tends to reduce the chances of dealing with fakes. And, if you believe a swing or vanilla site can offer decent service without payments from at least a majority of those using the site, then you're too out of touch with reality for me to enjoy your company.

 

Rocky, how much did you drop on your last date? Last weekend, I invited someone for a beer and burger and wound up spending $40 by the time I went home. I went home with a slight buzz, a full stomach, and an invitation from her to take me to dinner so it was money well spent. If you want to play you have to pay. Doesn't matter what it is. If you balk at the paltry money to be on a swing site I can only imagine how you feel filling up your car to drive to see someone you meet on it.

[Amanda69 24]

Another good way to look at it....

 

Can a couple swing without a single?

Can a single swing without a couple?

Excellent way to look at it.

 

Thrax I am sure you would be a favorite toy of many a couple.... I played as a toy myself for about 3 years in the lifestyle. As a single female it was a little easier but I never forgot my place.

[Dooode 18]

Excellent way to look at it.

 

Why?

[Amanda69 24]

Because two singles having sex is just that...sex. Or else I have been a swinger from way back.

 

I consider myself a swinger only when I was a couple, other than that I was a fun toy....

[Spoomonkey 421]

JustAskJulie said:

Can a couple swing without a single?

Can a single swing without a couple?

 

I think this is absolutely brilliant... But I think you are brilliant, so I'm not surprised.

 

I go back and forth honestly, because there are good single men. But - at the same time we have played with more single women than we have with good single men... Which I think is pretty telling, considering that single females are supposed to be so rare...

 

Good single men are rarer still.

 

If you are a good single male (and who is there to define that?) you can call yourself whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. But, most single men are opportunists, based on my experience.

 

There is a HUGE difference between sharing your wife and sharing someone else's wife. Most single men simply aren't swingers in that regard. Sure - they'll drop trou and have sex with Mrs Spoomonkey in a heartbeat, but what are they risking in return? Frankly, few have the balls to do what many swing husbands do.

 

It is a risky proposition to share your wife with anyone - you have to be pretty confident in yourself to do it and it takes a rare man, I believe who can. If anyone in the lifestyle is underappreciated, it is the swing husband...

 

But that is a debate for another thread - which I started a couple years ago and is buried around here somewhere...

 

As a swing husband, I have to admit, when I go to the club I am really - in the back of my monkey mind - hoping to play with someone, just as Mrs Spoomonkey is hoping to play with someone. Single guys are fun, but I have to kind of plan for them - prepare mentally for them - because there really isn;t much more than visual stimulation that I get from that... If you aren't what we are looking for, then you are just someone else to walk by...

 

The long and the short of it is that the realities of the lifestyle are what they are. Guys like CuriousAgain and Thrax get this. You can whine or you can adapt.

[Tia Vampire 167]

Rocky, I'm new to this lifestyle and I'm going to tell you what happened to me that made me stop attending a club that I once liked. Me and my fiance went to a room at a swingers club, seven single guys followed us and was waiting their turn. I mean making comments such as who was next, playing with themselves, and telling my boyfriend what they were going to do to me. In a way it was a complement to have seven guys chase after me, but at the same time, these guys thought that they had some coochie to play with.

 

I don't know what they were thinking, but it was not happening. Maybe if it was one guy and he politely came and asked could he join, then maybe. I have no problem with a single guy at the club. As a matter of fact we are looking for one to play with, but seven is just a bit overwhelming and inconsiderate.

 

I think as a single guy in my opinion, you should let the couple approach you instead of you approaching them.

 

Good luck in your search and calm down, there is a willing couple out there.

[Dooode 18]

Because two singles having sex is just that...sex. Or else I have been a swinger from way back.

Well this is what I am trying to figure out.

 

If you are a swinger couple, why wouldn't you just go to a single's bar (if there is such a thing these days! haha) and pick up a single male/female there?

 

What is the difference between finding one in the lifestyle and one in a bar?

 

Or is there a difference?

[Spoomonkey 421]

Dooode said:

If you are a swinger couple, why wouldn't you just go to a single's bar (if there is such a thing these days! haha) and pick up a single male/female there?

 

Ah - a trick question

 

Gotta love those...

 

If you are looking for a single, going to a single's bar MIGHT work... Or it might back fire in a dozen different ways.

 

At a single's bar, most people are there looking for other singles. And the singles who may be interested in playing with a couple will probably do it with the attitude of "oh well... I wasn't getting laid tonight anyway..."

 

Not saying all - but if a single wants to have sex in a group, a single's bar would be an unlikely place to look.

 

Dooode said:

What is the difference between finding one in the lifestyle and one in a bar?

 

The main difference is purpose. Why are they there? I am willing to bet if you walked into most single's bars and asked most singles - male and female - what they were looking for - a very, very, VERY small percentage would say, "I am here on the off chance that a couple is going to invite me in for group sex."

 

In fact, I was once in a vanilla club with a group of swingers where one of the wives hit on a single guy. When he realized what she was (a swinger) he stormed off in disgust...

 

If you walk up to a single in a swing club, the chances are much greater that they know why they are there - and know what they are likely to find. They aren't going to be shocked or surprised.

 

It is just as pointless to pretend that a single's bar is a swing club as it is to pretend that a single is a swinger...

 

Sure - swinging probably does happen at single's bars - and some singles do have the mindset of swingers - but it is not a good idea to bank on it.

[ShellyM 0]

Hello,

I can only tell you my opinion from personal experience. Honestly, we have had no luck at all with single men. I actually have had a horrible experience with single men lately at the swingers camp out we went to...they let a group bring 4 of them, and we had a bad experience with them. Anyways, on sls we have had bad luck to be honest. One was using 4 different names. Others seem to think that just because I'm a swinger I'm a whore. I know there are good single men out there....but out of 100 I bet only about 5 are good, and 95 not so good. But, thats JMO.

[ShellyM 0]

Tia Vampire said:

Rocky, I'm new to this lifestyle and I'm going to tell you what happened to me that made me stop attending a club that I once liked. Me and my fiance went to a room at a swingers club, seven single guys followed us and was waiting their turn. I mean making comments such as who was next, playing with themselves, and telling my boyfriend what they were going to do to me.

 

This is basically what happened to us at the swingers camp out this past weekend. Like I said before, a group brought 4 single men along (even though it was for couples and single ladies only supposedly). Us and another couple decided to go enjoy the swing. Now, I DO understand that we are at a swinger's function, we have no problem at all with voyeurs who are enjoying themselves...but we get to the swing, and like 4 bees they are there. Jay dropped and started doing oral, and they LITERALLY stood not 1 foot behind him, to where he had to give them a look so they would back off. And they were cracking jokes and making fun, like it was funny or something. So, the next couple got on....I think she honestly faked it to get the hell out of there. So, we then go to some tables and start having fun...the 4 musketeers showed up! It literally ruined our entire evening. I have emailed the managers, asking them never to allow single guys in to a function if they want me to return.

[Dooode 18]

Sure - swinging probably does happen at single's bars - and some singles do have the mindset of swingers - but it is not a good idea to bank on it.

Ahhh .. a man with a brain! Gotta love ya (uh .. in a strictly plutonic way, of course. ROFL!!).

 

No, I don't think any couple should bank on the fact that just because a single is on a swing site or met at a club that this person has the vaguest clue of how to act in a swing environment.

 

BUT some singles certainly can have the mindset of a lifestyler, hold to the rules of a dedicated lifestyler and even have references from other couples; be actively involved in his/her own swing community and work for making a safe environment for couples. So for all practical purposes, this person can very much be considered a swinger.

 

For example, I know this single fellow locally who owns a ranch. He is tied into a group of swingers here who have their parties at his house. There might be 2-3 single males there, a few single ladies, but 30-40 couples. His parties are announced on the (local) swingers site every month.

 

Compared to the shitload of single men in the lifestyle, he is a rare breed, no doubt. But I think that to say that he is NOT a swinger would an insult. And I'm pretty sure the swingers group would defend him in that.

 

All I am saying is that if a single is going to wear the hat of a swinger, that he should wear it completely and not be a dilitante. Otherwise, they may as well go to singles bars 'cause they'll more than likely have better luck getting accepted.

 

ShellyM:

 

I just read your story and I'm sorry to read that experience. Definately a killjoy and I can't say I blame you for how you feel.

[JTcamp05 9]

Think amanda said it all....clear and to the point!

[Spoomonkey 421]

Dooode said:

some singles certainly can have the mindset of a lifestyler

 

And like I said, I go back and forth. Mostly because I know one guy who I would consider to have the same mindset that I have. But - after three and a half years, I have only met one personally. Not the best kind of numbers with which to make an argument "for" singles being swingers

[Hapycmpr 16]

Me and my fiance went to a room at a swingers club, seven single guys followed us and was waiting their turn. I mean making comment,such as who was next, playing with themselves, and telling my boyfriend what they were going to do to me.

 

Last week, we were invited to a hotel party by a single guy that we know. We have never partied with him, but would if the opertunity came about. When we got there, there were 7 guys and NO women. Patti was the only woman there. Within the next hour, 4 more guys came with no dates. Now we have 11 guys and Patti. Our friend started giving Patti a foot massage, and then offered a whole body massage.

 

We went into the bathroom and discussed the issue and decided to go with it as long as it didn't get out of hand. I was there to monitor the situation and limit the participants. She didn't want an all out gang bang! Patti got undressed and layed on the bed for her massage. As in Tia Vampire's situation, the guys all started stripping and playing with themselves telling us what they were going to do to Patti. My response was, "Guys...be nice and respectful, or I'll take the pussy and go home."

 

Between me and our friend Patti felt fairly safe, but we did end up leaving before anything really got going. The feeling was just too creepy for me. Spoo, I know what you're talking about when you say that it takes someone with a great relationship to be a swing husband!

 

Dave

[Chicup 41]

Last week, we were invited to a hotel party by a single guy that we know. We have never partied with him, but would if the opertunity came about. When we got there, there were 7 guys and NO women. Patti was the only woman there. Within the next hour, 4 more guys came with no dates. Now we have 11 guys and Patti. Our friend started giving Patti a foot massage, and then offered a whole body massage.

 

We went into the bathroom and discussed the issue and decided to go with it as long as it didn't get out of hand. I was there to monitor the situation and limit the participants. She didn't want an all out gang bang! Patti got undressed and layed on the bed for her massage. As in Tia Vampire's situation, the guys all started stripping and playing with themselves telling us what they were going to do to Patti. My response was, "Guys...be nice and respectful, or I'll take the pussy and go home."

 

Between me and our friend Patti felt fairly safe, but we did end up leaving before anything really got going. The feeling was just too creepy for me. Spoo, I know what you're talking about when you say that it takes someone with a great relationship to be a swing husband!

 

Dave

 

Lets see, room full of guys I don't know and my wife half naked......

 

No I can't see that one getting to the foot massage stage, glad it didn't turn into a gang rape.

[Hapycmpr 16]

Lets see, room full of guys I don't know and my wife half naked......

 

No I can't see that one getting to the foot massage stage, glad it didn't turn into a gang rape.

 

This was an established weekly swing party that we have attended before where there are usually 5-6 couples and 3-6 single guys. It just happened that there weren't any other couples present at this week and an abundance of single guys. All of these guys we had seen before and at no time did either of us feel unsafe...just kind of creepy.

[Dooode 18]

This was an established weekly swing party that we have attended before where there are usually 5-6 couples and 3-6 single guys. It just happened that there weren't any other couples present at this week and an abundance of single guys. All of these guys we had seen before and at no time did either of us feel unsafe...just kind of creepy.

Creepy is an understatement. That's extremely poor planning if I ever heard it.

 

With our particular group, parties involve six couples (as much as 15, as little as three) but only one or two single guys. Three single guys MAX with a high couples attendance. So the ratio always ends up being 5:1

 

For our group, that always seems to work out best.

 

Mostly because I know one guy who I would consider to have the same mindset that I have. But - after three and a half years, I have only met one personally. Not the best kind of numbers with which to make an arguement "for" singles being swingers

Don't get me wrong. My argument is not that singles are swingers so much as that they CAN be swingers ... with the right mindset (as you said). It's my defiance against the more close-minded "no they're not!".

 

Kinda like opening the door slightly to the viewpoint that some COULD be, with the correct attitude and experience.

[JTcamp05 9]

Thats a little much I agree Dave......Best to leave and try for the next party I would say.....

[ShellyM 0]

Dooode said:

ShellyM:

 

I just read your story and I'm sorry to read that experience. Definitely a killjoy and I can't say I blame you for how you feel.

 

Thanks it was, yes...but that's okay. I feel bad, because I know there are good men out there who want to have fun like the rest of us....unfortunately the bad ones really ruin it for the good.

[Spoomonkey 421]

Dooode said:

CDon't get me wrong. My argument is not that singles are swingers so much as that they CAN be swingers ...

 

And in theory, time travel is possible...

 

It's a matter of relativity

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

Laurie and I have just started ignoring single males out of hand even though she is fond of MFM. The single males who have contacted us have ranged from merely annoying trolls to completely offensive bastards. They're like a bunch of starving dogs hanging around outside the butcher shop.

 

One little walking anus even stated that just because my lovely sexy wife isn't a perfect size 4 we should be desperate and be glad he was willing to do her anyway.

 

No single males! If we want to do a MFM we'll ask another couple to borrow the husband for the night in trade for similar favors at a future date.

[ShellyM 0]

nice_cpl_n_bama said:

One little walking anus even stated that just because my lovely sexy wife isn't a perfect size 4 we should be desperate and be glad he was willing to do her anyway.

 

I can't believe he said that. Man oh man, what a creep!

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

Well, in fairness he did sent an email the next day claiming that he was drunk when he wrote that stuff. Personally I don't much care. Alcohol lowers inhibitions and often you see the "real" person when they've had a few. He was just an ass.

[MoonLightKiss 28]

Drunk is no excuse. I hate it when people use that. I just wanna tell em, "if you can't do better than that while drinking, then perhaps drinking is not for you. And please come up with a better line for excusing your pathetic behavior"

 

In all seriousness, he was a creep. And that's not a bad idea, finding another couple into MFM and trading out favors. I may need to consider that for myself

[Chicup 41]

BUT some singles certainly can have the mindset of a lifestyler, hold to the rules of a dedicated lifestyler and even have references from other couples; be actively involved in his/her own swing community and work for making a safe environment for couples. So for all practical purposes, this person can very much be considered a swinger.

 

No, he can be considered a good toy. There is more to swinging than being into casual sex and being a nice guy about it. Singles don't have to get over jealousy issues, they don't have to be willing to let the love of their life enjoy their fantasies, and if something goes bad, they just go home. I'm not sure why singles are so interested in being called swingers, but to me, and a great many couples you can't be by definition. It doesn't matter if you are a creep or not. I've been the extra male in a MFM more times than I can count, and its not the same thing.

[Dooode 18]

Chicup:

 

Who's definition?

 

According to NASCA International:

 

Who the Swingers Are

 

People who swing come from all economic levels. Every job classification, all races and nationalities are represented, though the majority are Caucasian, middle to upper middle socio-economic class, and married. Swingers, married and single, tend to be adventuresome, emotionally mature, and have excellent relationships with their mates and friends. Single people are involved in swinging but not to the extent of couples. Many single women have joined swing clubs, finding them a refreshing alternative to the traditional bar scene.

 

For the record, I have ALWAYS considered myself a toy (but reversely, some of them make pretty good toys themselves! hehehe). As you've pointed out, singles don't have the same problems couples do ... but they certainly do have problems within the lifestyle as well.

 

Why are we so interested? BECAUSE IT IS A HAT.

 

We wear the hat, we assume a certain beingness. We follow certain rules. We act a certain way. We dress a certain way.

 

WITHOUT THE HAT, you have singles (and couples too, for that matters) who act OUT-OF-SYNC with the rest of the swing community.

 

And that is the complaint many couples have with singles who've invaded the lifestyle. Some are rude, don't know how to take a "no", are persistent to the point of stalking ... and the list goes on.

 

Make sense?

[Alura 2,774]

If I owned NASCA, I'd be interesting in having as many members as possible and, thus, open up membership to everyone. Hell, if the family horse could send in the dues, he'd get a card, too. That doesn't mean he'd be a swinger.

 

So it remains that the definition of "swinger" is dependent upon who is doing the defining. Those who aren't interested in single people will continue to use "married couples" in their definition. Those whose sole or major interest is MFM (or FMF) threesomes may agree to call singles "swingers."

 

There are others, ourselves included, who do our own thing in our own way. If someone disagrees with our definition, so be it. We're unaffected.

[Rockme 15]

Alura said:

If I owned NASCA, I'd be interesting in having as many members as possible and, thus, open up membership to everyone. Hell, if the family horse could send in the dues, he'd get a card, too. That doesn't mean he'd be a swinger.

 

So it remains that the definition of "swinger" is dependent upon who is doing the defining. Those who aren't interested in single people will continue to use "married couples" in their definition. Those whose sole or major interest is MFM (or FMF) threesomes may agree to call singles "swingers."

 

There are others, ourselves included, who do our own thing in our own way. If someone disagrees with our definition, so be it. We're unaffected.

 

Your post hit it on the nose This is how I view it as well.

[Chicup 41]

Chicup:

 

Why are we so interested? BECAUSE IT IS A HAT.

 

We wear the hat, we assume a certain beingness. We follow certain rules. We act a certain way. We dress a certain way.

 

WITHOUT THE HAT, you have singles (and couples too, for that matters) who act OUT-OF-SYNC with the rest of the swing community.

 

And that is the complaint many couples have with singles who've invaded the lifestyle. Some are rude, don't know how to take a "no", are persistent to the point of stalking ... and the list goes on.

 

Make sense?

No one told me about a dress code

 

What you are saying is by being called a swinger it means you 'get it' you can have casual sex without drama, you respect peoples boundaries. To me that just makes you a good toy for couples into that in the lifestyle. Perhaps you need a 'good toy' hat instead.

 

I've met plenty of swingers, who as you said don't get it, don't understand no, don't respect boundaries and are basically assholes, some perhaps slightly insane. They are still swingers, as they are a committed couple even if perhaps, they should be committed.

 

If I were to be single tomorrow, I'd be a great toy. I'm youngish, in ok shape, understand the lifestyle, have no baggage or lifestyle 'issues', am well versed in 3somes and separating sex from love, and the women seem to enjoy me. Ok that sounds like bragging but its not meant to be, I just know whats out there and expected. Odds are I'd work out even more to get that 'look' to be even more appealing. To me I'd still not be a swinger, I'd be a guy who enjoys sex and isn't put off by the fact that her husband wants to do it to her with me, and can have fun with it.

 

Interestingly though, being a single male toy really doesn't appeal to me in the least, because I AM a swinger. I'm looking for a committed relationship where we can be open with each other too. I'd end up dating a lot of women, until I found one who was not only right for me as a soul mate, but also potentially open to swinging, odds are if she were right for me, she would be, much like my wife is

 

Some singles and couples who play with singles tend to take this opinion of mine as an attack on singles in the lifestyle, and its not at all. I can understand the desire for single females (like we don't see enough people looking for them) and for single males. They have a place in the lifestyle with those who enjoy that sort of play, and the horde of crappy single men really doesn't change that. My guess is the reason so many 'poor' quality males are looking for swingers is they can't find anyone who will have sex with them vanilla style so they are hoping they have a chance with swingers who they think screw everything. These guys don't count.

 

You know this is turning into a rambling post but being an evolutionary biologist at heart I'm developing (more like fleshing out) a theory on why 'good' single males are so rare it seems in swinging despite the huge number of single males who try.

 

First you must accept a few facts as the explanations would be to long.

1. Males are by nature more ployagymist

2. Females are by nature more monogomist (there are very interesting facts to back this up) and more picky.

 

Most 'desireable' males (good singles for swinging) are already in a relationship because they are sought after by females.

 

Many 'undesireable' males are unattached as they are not sought after by females.

 

Sex drive being what it is, these celebate single males who are single due to being undesirable look for any outlet for that sex drive and turn to swinging. The problem for these guys is females tend to be picky by nature, even when its just for fun, so these males which are undesireable for whatever reason be it looks or more likely personality, are undesireable to swing with.

 

So the odds of finding a desireable single male who is unattached is quite low, in fact just about as low as finding a single female unicorn.

[Dooode 18]

LOL@Thrax!!!

 

Well I am going to ignore the evolutionary "all monkeys are the same" crap.

 

Every time some monkey says "every monkey is the same", some other monkey comes along and points out that they're not. Monkeys are NOT human beings and it takes evolutionists time to figure that out.

 

Perhaps you need a 'good toy' hat instead.

No, not instead, along with. And yes, I have that one too. They go very much hand-in-hand.

 

Interestingly though, being a single male toy really doesn't appeal to me in the least, because I AM a swinger. I'm looking for a committed relationship where we can be open with each other too. I'd end up dating a lot of women, until I found one who was not only right for me as a soul mate, but also potentially open to swinging, odds are if she were right for me, she would be, much like my wife is.

And there ya go. So you do (sorta) understand the role of beingness. Now once you get the idea that other people can have their own beingness too, you'll be on your way.

[curiousagain 326]

Chicup said:

No, he can be considered a good toy. There is more to swinging than being into casual sex and being a nice guy about it. Singles don't have to get over jealousy issues, they don't have to be willing to let the love of their life enjoy their fantasies, and if something goes bad, they just go home. I'm not sure why singles are so interested in being called swingers, but to me, and a great many couples you can't be by definition. It doesn't matter if you are a creep or not. I've been the extra male in a MFM more times than I can count, and its not the same thing.

 

And I'm not sure why some people get so bent out of shape if a single calls themselves a swinger. I see a lot of much ado about nothing on either side of the issue. I agree it is not the same thing to be the extra male in MFM vs the husband/BF/SO. A SM who is a swinger or who "gets it" will understand that and act accordingly. Finding a male half of a couple that can be loaned out occasionally with everybody in both couples fine with it is probably as rare as a unicorn also. It takes a certain mindset by everybody for that to be OK. What to call these people? Everybody will have their own definition.

 

 

Alura said:

If I owned NASCA, I'd be interesting in having as many members as possible and, thus, open up membership to everyone. Hell, if the family horse could send in the dues, he'd get a card, too. That doesn't mean he'd be a swinger.

 

So it remains that the definition of "swinger" is dependent upon who is doing the defining. Those who aren't interested in single people will continue to use "married couples" in their definition. Those whose sole or major interest is MFM (or FMF) threesomes may agree to call singles "swingers."

 

There are others, ourselves included, who do our own thing in our own way. If someone disagrees with our definition, so be it. We're unaffected.

 

I agree, other people's definition don't affect me. Some think if you haven't swung in a while you're an ex swinger or wannabe swinger. I've primarily been a SM but, have swung with a GF but, we're presently not a couple so am I an ex swinger, wanna be swinger, use to be swinger, in between partners swinger, toy, single male? I have to admit I'm ignorant and apathetic. I don't know and more importantly, to me at least, I don't care.

 

Need a single male for a MFM or to fill out a foursome with a SF you know, that understands the dynamics, and is able to "do it", and to some most importantly, keep his mouth shut? I just might fill the bill. Need someone to argue pointless word definitions and maybe try to figure out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I'll pass.

 

I've had a couple of relationships disappear like a puff of smoke when I told them I was a swinger, so you won't hear me using that word to describe myself again any time soon. Because, as so many have pointed out, this is primarily a couples activity and it's much much more fun with a "partner in crime" then going it alone. Now, if I could only figure out how to make someone think it was their idea...