Conversations with vanilla friends have changed since joining this board

[flkeyscouple 21]

I was just reading in another thread about how swinger friends might make better friends than vanilla friends because there are no taboo subjects.

 

This made me think about a conversation I had with Roger last night. I had dinner with a few vanilla friends last night. Roger was not with us, just the girls out for dinner. I don't remember how the conversation led to it but one of my friends brought up my divorce from my first husband and asked 'what ended that relationship'. I found myself being SO MUCH MORE OPEN than I've normally been when talking to vanilla friends. I told them that the main reason was sex - not the lack of it or the quality of it, but my boredom with it.

 

I went on to tell them that I had had numerous affairs while married to my first husband and that even though he never found out about the affairs, I realized that I'd never be satisfied with our married life, and therefore divorced.

 

When I got home I was telling Roger about the conversation. He said he thinks that I've been more open with EVERYONE since joining this board. He think the fact that I'm so comfortable and open with my posts on this board (and addicted to being on this board and reading these threads ALL the time!) that it has flowed through to my vanilla conversations. Maybe the openness is habit forming??

 

Does anyone else notice this phenomenen? (is that how you spell phenomenon? phenomenen? oh well!)

 

Sarah

[telly2 15]

It is true once you are open with some, you become open with others. Especially where sex is concerned, we were trained that it is something we don't talk about. Now we are opening our lines of communication to sex and it isn't that evil scarry thing that we were led to believe.

 

In my opinion eventually we can open up to vanilla's about what we do. It is not a big deal, it is just a hobby. It doesn't change who we are, as they liked us before they knew.

[VanHlebar 187]

Well I was always a pretty open and honest, sometimes brutally honest guy to begin with. What I have noticed the most is when I am out say with the guys I just want to laugh at them now. We might get 4 guys and go golfing or have a guys night out at Hooter or BW3s and as usually happens the guys will start talking about the ladies around us or just sex in general.

 

Then they all start talking about how they would do this one or that one and how they would love to take this one home to their wife, etc etc. "Oh man...I would so take that one out back and give her one of my bones...." They all talk a big game and then when push comes to shove they all go back home to their vanilla wives and live their happy lives like that. I just want to scream and tear my hair out. We do have one friend that knows we are in the lifestyle. I was out with him and a few of his other male friend one day for lunch when I started "being friendly" with our waitress. She was very sexy and was flirting with me pretty good. One of the guys said that he would love to get her phone number, but he didn't think his girl friend would really like that much. I laughed at him and he looked at me and said, well if you think you can get her number why don't you try? Now he knew I was married and my friend that knows about us quickly interjected and told the guy not to make that bet...he would hate to watch him lose money.

 

Mostly, with our vanilla friends things just seem different. After going out to dinner and then coming home and playing cards or pool the night just doesn't quite seem the same anymore. We don't always play with our playmates when we all go out, but there is always heavy flirting, touching and stuff. Just can't do that with our vanilla friends.

 

-Van

[ShellyM 0]

Yeah, its actually cute.

Actually, we have another swinger at my office, and we are very close friends....

 

NO, not that close you bunch of perverts!

 

We knew we were swingers, because it seems that our little society has its own lingo. Anyways, its nice to have someone I can talk to. So, we are at the restaurant eating lunch. And the other lady says "Michelle only has eyes for so and so"..... I look up from my chinese food at my friend...I smiled and said "Okay"

lol, we just smiled at each other and I continued eating my Kung Pao chicken.

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

It's very true that we are much more open with everyone and everything since we started swinging. Since most of our vanilla friends are the church crowd this can lead to some awkward moments.

We have some very close, but very vanilla friends. They are wanting to wait on having any more children, but because of some health troubles she can't use hormonal birth control. They've decided to use condoms for the time being.

I overheard a girl talk conversation about how they couldn't find a condom they liked. Without thinking twice I strolled back to the bedroom and grabbed one of our nice crown skinless skin condoms and tossed it to her and Said "try this one. If you like it I'll give you an internet address where you can buy them."

She looked at the condom and asked "Laurie is fixed, why do you keep condoms in the house?" BUSTED! Laurie very smoothly said "Well, we've been married a long time. Sometimes it's nice to just make it feel different from time to time."

Hmmm, maybe I should have thought that one through a little more. I'd hate for it to become a matter of church gossip!

[flkeyscouple 21]

Without thinking twice I strolled back to the bedroom and grabbed one of our nice crown skinless skin condoms and tossed it to her and Said "try this one. If you like it I'll give you an internet address where you can buy them."

She looked at the condom and asked "Laurie is fixed, why do you keep condoms in the house?" BUSTED!

Oh how funny! That is exactly what I am talking about!! I could see me doing the same thing! Luckily our vanilla friends are not the 'church goers', but my family is! I'm really worried I'll blurt something out around one of my siblings! And either way - friends or family - I just don't want to get 'outed' especially not by ME!

 

Sarah

[ShellyM 0]

It's very true that we are much more open with everyone and everything since we started swinging. Since most of our vanilla friends are the church crowd this can lead to some awkward moments.

We have some very close, but very vanilla friends. They are wanting to wait on having any more children, but because of some health troubles she can't use hormonal birth control. They've decided to use condoms for the time being.

I overheard a girl talk conversation about how they couldn't find a condom they liked. Without thinking twice I strolled back to the bedroom and grabbed one of our nice crown skinless skin condoms and tossed it to her and Said "try this one. If you like it I'll give you an internet address where you can buy them."

She looked at the condom and asked "Laurie is fixed, why do you keep condoms in the house?" BUSTED! Laurie very smoothly said "Well, we've been married a long time. Sometimes it's nice to just make it feel different from time to time."

Hmmm, maybe I should have thought that one through a little more. I'd hate for it to become a matter of church gossip!

 

 

I would have paid money to see the look that came across your face.

[ShellyM 0]

It's very true that we are much more open with everyone and everything since we started swinging. Since most of our vanilla friends are the church crowd this can lead to some awkward moments.

We have some very close, but very vanilla friends. They are wanting to wait on having any more children, but because of some health troubles she can't use hormonal birth control. They've decided to use condoms for the time being.

I overheard a girl talk conversation about how they couldn't find a condom they liked. Without thinking twice I strolled back to the bedroom and grabbed one of our nice crown skinless skin condoms and tossed it to her and Said "try this one. If you like it I'll give you an internet address where you can buy them."

She looked at the condom and asked "Laurie is fixed, why do you keep condoms in the house?" BUSTED! Laurie very smoothly said "Well, we've been married a long time. Sometimes it's nice to just make it feel different from time to time."

Hmmm, maybe I should have thought that one through a little more. I'd hate for it to become a matter of church gossip!

 

In true honesty, I don't think my friends and/or co-workers would be all that surprised. I am an open book (NO, could you tell?), and I have a very strong sexual personality. My friends say I'm HOOCHIE. I don't flirt, don't get me wrong. I don't know, but I just do. I think they would just smile and say that they aren't surprised. My parents probably would not be surprised either. My ultra religious Aunts, however, would be leg up like dying cockroaches.

[gatorvol64 216]

I would have paid money to see the look that came across your face.

 

Particularly because I would have been glad to find someone else does silly things besides me.

 

Vol

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

I would have paid money to see the look that came across your face.

 

I asked Laurie that very question. She said I just looked blank and confused. Thank goodness for the poker face!

[Tybee Swing 286]

Bama, that was hilarious!!!

[intuition897 2,179]

!!! Yup, definitely one of those deer-in-the-headlights moments. I probably would've just come out with an honest truth that would've translated easily into Vanillian: [in a loud whisper] "We're just kinky." The effect: "Oh." Followed by an I-don't-want-to-know-any-more embarassed grin and a quick subject change.

 

I would be sooo tempted to just come right out with it. Although that might also serve as an effective cover, too. Truth is often stranger than fiction, and most swingers don't look like Austin Powers, so if you say in a sarcastic tone of voice, "Oh, well we use those when we're having group sex. Can't be too careful, y'know?" Fine, they'll say, we can take a hint, it's none of our business!

 

I'm definitely a lot more open now than I used to be. It can be frustrating sometimes, because I can see so clearly when people are playing social games...and I just have no time for that bullshit anymore. I just feel like saying, "If you've got beef with something about me, I'd sure appreciate it if you'd just bloody well tell me instead of playing these stupid 'Desperate Housewives' games. Did you never graduate high school or something??" I've developed a real taste for openness and honesty, and avoiding talking about something important because "it's just not appropriate" or because it's uncomfortable is just so backward! I can only think to myself, good GOD! Doesn't he/she realize what this avoidance is costing him/her??

 

I'm not as discrete as I probably should be, probably because at some level I WISH we would get caught. Get this all out in the open and get it over with. So we can all just get on with the business of living without all the stupid cloak and dagger.

[Darkblue 55]

I love you guys and dolls your all great..

 

I know the feeling and its good to talk about them!!

The first time i went to a club i didnt know where to look, im not shy (but when the Wife is there i am reserved and prefer to look and see whats going on) but nowdays i dont care i look at everyone and everything and feel fine about it.

As for being open with Vanille friends well i am!! i told my mate that i had been up all weekend with the girlfriend and he kust looked at me and said "yeh right as if" i wanted to say honest its true i was but the wife was there as well but i couldnt but its so tempting, I am now more open towards others and the Subject of Sex and the flirts are great and to have that feeling "I am doing what you guys only dream about" is really wild.

 

 

Steve

[Guest MrsVan]

MrVan and I have talked about this alot lately since getting into the lifestyle. Before we got into the lifestyle, I was VERY reserved and quiet. I think I was afraid to be myself for fear that MrVan would not like who I was becoming as my ex did not like who I was originally. However, it is funny now because we do have vanilla friends who have noticed the change and have made comments about how open I am and how bubbly I am.

 

We had hosted a Memorial Day party, and had a mixture of vanilla and lifestyle friends that we had invited and whom had showed up. And yes, our lifestyle friends behaved very well around our vanilla friends. But we had a couple whom I had not seen since New Years (was right before we got into the lifestyle) and after the party the husband told MrVan that there was just something different about me that day. Guess the lifestyle just agrees with me. Although we had vanilla friends around, I would flirt with everyone even those that were not in the lifestyle, because that is just me but it was the type of flirting that could be done around vanilla friends and they won't catch on to it.

 

I can also be more open in conversations with my vanilla friends and when sex comes up it does not even bother me in the least bit to talk about it.

 

 

So yes I think that the lifestyle can change you as a person and make you feel comfortable with whom you are. I have also noticed with myself that I am more flirtatious, friendly and a little more outgoing. And because of that, I think it brings out a womans sexuality and makes her feel good about herself.

 

Being able to be myself is so refreshing and I am so glad that I am able to be more open because it is so much fun to be myself again and I do not think that MrVan is complaining in the least bit.

 

MrsVan

[edmustang 19]

I would be sooo tempted to just come right out with it. Although that might also serve as an effective cover, too. Truth is often stranger than fiction, and most swingers don't look like Austin Powers, so if you say in a sarcastic tone of voice, "Oh, well we use those when we're having group sex. Can't be too careful, y'know?" Fine, they'll say, we can take a hint, it's none of our business!

 

Very tempting indeed! Like my moniker says:

[flkeyscouple 21]

I started this thread saying my conversations with vanilla friends had gotten more open and I think the conversations on this board 'started' it.

 

One comment I made was 'I do not want to get 'outed', especially by myself.

 

Now I notice that I am putting so much more 'identifiable' information in my posts on this board. Roger and I were talking about it and I think I've been 'coming around' to feeling that if someone I know is lurking on this board and does the 'PI' work to find all my posts and read them all, then maybe they'd learn a little about the lifestyle along the way and not feel the need to 'out' me. (Does that make sense?)

 

I still am SO worried about being 'outted' (OK... is outted right? or outed? How do you spell that??? Julie - can we get a spell checker on this board??? I have NEVER been good at spelling!) Does anyone else go through that feeling?

 

I'd hate to get 'outed' to my family (parents/siblings) or my staff. I think I'd loose a lot of my respect from my staff, and loose my upper hand in my way of management. It scares me... yet I am getting more and more comfortable posting 'identifiable' information. Talk about a Catch22~

 

 

 

I'm so confused!!

 

Sarah

[SW_MS_CPL 15]

Although very limited in real experience, we have begun to think that we have become a lil more open with our normal friends. We have let two of them know about what we have done, and were suprised to discover that it didn't make then change how they relate to us. This has made us feel closer to them, even though there's no chance we'd ever play with them.

[flkeyscouple 21]

We have let two of them know about what we have done, and were suprised to discover that it didn't make them change how they relate to us.

I'm not nearly as worried about friends as I am with family (learning about our lifestyle). We've met so many wonderful people in the lifestyle that if our vanilla friends were to ignore us (because of our lifestyle) we'd think 'better to have found out now' because they weren't REAL friends.

 

It's FAMILY that we have to deal with no matter what. Maybe I worry too much, but I really don't think I could deal with my family knowing. Roger says we'd deal with whatever comes up, and I know that is true, but the THOUGHT of it gives me butterflies - I can't imagine the REALITY of it. I'm sure it was my upbringing... and that just sucks!

 

Sarah

[intuition897 2,179]

I'm not concerned about my family knowing about it any moreso than our friends; I'm just concerned with how they'll feel about it. We aren't about to un-know everything that we've learned along the way, just because our families - who have no knowledge or experience with such things - disagree with it. They aren't in a position to know better than us what is right for our relationship.

 

And we're not ashamed of what we do. We just understand that our family and friends don't really WANT to know about it. It would make them extremely uncomfortable to know such intimate details about our personal life. Just like if you happened to walk in on your Mom giving dear old Dad a blowjob, even though it's something perfectly acceptable behind their bedroom door...it's still a helluva ugly image that's burned into your memory. You just can't un-see something like that. My parents don't want to hear that we're swingers. They need to see us in a certain way. If I truly felt that it was any of their business, and that they could accept it (maybe not agree with it, but accept that we are adults and have our own lives that we are responsible for), I would certainly consider telling them. But seeing as how neither is the case, they won't be hearing it from me anytime soon.

[Guest MrsVan]

I'm not concerned about my family knowing about it any moreso than our friends; I'm just concerned with how they'll feel about it. We aren't about to un-know everything that we've learned along the way, just because our families - who have no knowledge or experience with such things - disagree with it. They aren't in a position to know better than us what is right for our relationship.

 

And we're not ashamed of what we do. We just understand that our family and friends don't really WANT to know about it. It would make them extremely uncomfortable to know such intimate details about our personal life. Just like if you happened to walk in on your Mom giving dear old Dad a blowjob, even though it's something perfectly acceptable behind their bedroom door...it's still a helluva ugly image that's burned into your memory. You just can't un-see something like that. My parents don't want to hear that we're swingers. They need to see us in a certain way. If I truly felt that it was any of their business, and that they could accept it (maybe not agree with it, but accept that we are adults and have our own lives that we are responsible for), I would certainly consider telling them. But seeing as how neither is the case, they won't be hearing it from me anytime soon.

 

 

Very well put Intuition! This is exactly how MrVan and I feel when it comes to telling family and friends. We wish that we could tell them as it would make things so much easier instead of hiding it all but like you, I do not think that our family and some of our friends would really understand and because of the way they would see us could have an affect on how they feel about us. MrVan has one friend who does know and this guy figured it out and kept starting up conversations along the lines of the lifestyle, etc. So with that friend knowing it is not so bad because we know that he does not look down on what we do so to speak.

 

If I knew that my family would take the information well, I would tell them but for now I am keeping it all to myself and if they find out, well so be it. I have an "angel" image to uphold and I will be leaving it like that for now.

 

MrsVan

[oddcouple2841 16]

It is a worry for us also. My dear old dad is almost eighty and ma is in her mid seventies. S's parents are in their sixties and very straight laced. My ma has had a hard time accepting my having a 28 y.o. SO. She thinks S will drop me as soon as someone better and closer to her own age comes along.

 

Dad is pretty open and accepting, hell back in the seventies he had magazines much "harder" than Playboy or Penthouse. My siblings are very open minded and I think would be okay with us and S does not have any. My son who is a teen would probably be accepting but the problems it could cause him with the other teens might not be so pleasent. You how mean and closed minded kids can be.

[OZCPL 15]

:eek:I Have just read all the threads on this topic from 2006 and have found it very interseting in a lot of ways. Firstly it is so true that you are much more open in your conversations and you read people differently. I can see one halve of a vanilla cpl. flirting but the other a bit staid but when things progressed one night the tables completly turned. And as for family we were at a swinger mascarade ball and ran into my daughter and her man .

[LFM2 1,482]

:eek:I Have just read all the threads on this topic from 2006 and have found it very interseting in a lot of ways. Firstly it is so true that you are much more open in your conversations and you read people differently.

 

I definitely know that our conversations between us and between us and other swingers is much more open. I'm not sure what you mean by reading people differently. Can you explain a bit more what you mean by that?

 

I can see one halve of a vanilla cpl. flirting but the other a bit staid but when things progressed one night the tables completly turned. And as for family we were at a swinger mascarade ball and ran into my daughter and her man .

 

What do you mean that you can see one half of a vanilla couple flirting? Did that happen to you? So, how awkward is that to find your daughter and her man at a swinger party? I don't know what I'd do.

[OZCPL 15]

It happened to us last week we were talking and the male halve was always leading to sex the female halve was quiet. When we ended up in the spa myself and the female half were playfully flirting. The male half then couldn't handle this and he got angry. Why do people play, then when they get their fantasy they can't handle it. Sirprisingly I was very easy with running into my daughter we have a very honest and open relationship (no way sexual). I wouldn't play when she would be around.

[bellady 16]

Very interesting thread... Mr Bell and I are fairly new at this and have only told my best female friend ... Just because I knew she would be cool with it.. She is actually gay and I had tell her I had my first experience with a female!

 

Anyways we would be ok if our vanilla friends found out.. I think they would be ok with it but we are not going to tell them outright. Our families would be mortified!!!! I sometimes do not know what to say when my coworkers ask what I did over the weekend:blush: