Polyamourous Relationships- what are they?

[OhioCouple 40]

I have done quite a bit of reading on this, but I am still so confused as to what it means. Each site that I have been to seems to conflict the others.

 

I am curious as to what others see as a polyamourous relationship and if it is part of their swinging lifestyle or not.

[SwingerSet 15]

Well as club owners we have had to decide is Poly groups are or are not swingers? Here are my thoughts on this, Yes they are swingers, at our Parties we allow them but with a few rules as to their conduct. If they are a ffm couple they are treated as a couple and a single female however they must arrive and leave together. If they are a mmf they are treated as a couple and must act that way. Yes i know that this is a double standard but that is the way that the people who atened our parties want it we don't allow single males at all, by request of the guests and members.

[OhioCouple 40]

This is where I get completely confused. Does a "poly" relationship in affect mean that you are committed to each other? For instance if a couple has a preferred person or couple that they swing with, do they not do anything without the others knowledge or presence? Kinda like a marital commitment?

 

The whole concept confuses me and I've not found anything yet that sheds light on the subject as every web site I have been to seems to be much different.

 

Lori

[SwingerSet 15]

Lori, all I can do is report on what we have seen and talked to others about. It Is my understanding that a poly relationship is one very like marriage, where all parties involved are committed to each other, both on the physical and mental level's. Now a twist to this is the swinging poly, they would have to be committed on the emotional and mental stage but as with all swingers the physical sexual stage is open. As I said before we do allow poly's to attend our parties, but they are treated as a couple would be and we watch for posers with a mmf thing.

[imsnowman 34]

How many of these poly groups do you have attending?

 

How do you determine that they are a commited grouping?

 

Do they get any action? Seems like it might be awkward for most couples to mix into a MMF triad.

[imsnowman 34]

When we first looked into multiple loving "Poly" was the first type we came across. We looked into it for several years and attended one of the Poly conferences.

 

We've found as many variations in the "rules" that different polys have as there are people involved. Blended families, commune living, triads, "moreads". You think it, its been done. The common thread is at least an emotional commitment. This is how most of them differentiate themselves from mere swingers. For them its not about sex its about love and family and "good" stuff.

 

If a group of people identify as Poly than most of them are quite adamant that the sex is secondary. This is done primarily to ingratiate themselves with the larger society which sees love as better than sex. They see love as a higher good.

 

If one confronts them about this attitude one must be prepared to be insulted mightily.

 

The conference was a very loving and warm event as opposed to the Lifestyle convention which was exciting and erotic. The conference seminar subjects tended to be soul-searching type events with a rather poorly done STD session. By contrast, the convention seminar subjects were more down-to-earth with an excellent STD session.

 

I don't imagine this really cleared it up. It's fairly confusing even to the participants. They do a lot of "processing". It seemed like more work than we wanted so we've gradually came around to friendly swinging.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by imsnowman

I don't imagine this really cleared it up. It's fairly confusing even to the participants. They do a lot of "processing". It seemed like more work than we wanted so we've gradually came around to friendly swinging.

I truly appreciate every one trying to clear this up for me. But I am now more confused than ever.

 

Here is the scenario, and this is not something that involves our personal lives, it is just that, a scenario.

 

Two couples (or a couple and a single) meet together. Build a relationship both internal and external. They enjoy each others company and an expectation is that they spend "X" amount of time together . One or more (perhaps all) in the relationship would not consider playing outside of their group without the approval of the others. Is that a *poly* relationship? Or is it just swingers that are being courteous to all involved by letting the others know that they are playing with someone outside of the *group*, therefore they are swingers not Poly's?

 

I just cannot grasp this concept. Where as we choose to only play with people that we have built a relationship with both in and out of the bedroom, we don't have a "love" type relationship that bonds us to being sexually and emotionally united. But yet we would never do anything to bring harm to them, physically or emotionally. So are we "Poly wannabe's?" but really don't want to be since there is no true love involved?

 

Lori

[RnKin Fla 15]

Lori,

 

This is K. All I can tell you about are my personal experiences.

 

I've had one poly relationship, where I was the second "F" in a triad. The three of us were all committed to each other, shared a home and a bed, raised the couple's children together. I loved both of them, and they loved me. The kids called me "auntie K," but I was treated more as a second mom, right down to disciplining them and getting goodnight kisses.

 

We would occasionally swing with other couples too, but mostly we functioned just like a normal married couple, just with three partners. This was perfect for both L (the other "F") and I since we are both bisexual. And A seemed to be deliriously happy most of the time.

 

This lasted nearly a year before they decided to move to Michigan. Having no desire to move away from Calif. and my family, at that point, I decided to stay. Seeing them leave nearly ripped my heart out. I think having them leave was harder than when I got divorced from my first husband.

 

R and I have had one "almost" poly relationship, and we would be willing to explore that further with the right person.

 

The woman we had begun developing a poly relationship with was a good friend before we started swinging with her, and things progressed further once we welcomed her into our bed. I think we would have gone through with our plans to bring her wholly into our relationship had she not developed a SERIOUS drug problem.

 

I hope these illustrations help, Lori!

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I think it's all about semantics. If you consider yourself Poly you are. Kinda like swinging. Some people say that if you only swing with singles you aren't really swinging or if you only soft-swing you aren't a swinger... blah blah.... it varies from person to person.

 

Initially I was under the impression that the difference between being a poly and being a swinger was that poly's didn't swing - they had their set lovers that they were in a "monogamous" relationship with and didn't stray from those (however many there may be). But my opinions have changed some as I have learned more.

 

I do think that poly comes down to a loving/committed relationship between 3 or more people. Some poly's swing, some don't. Not all swingers are poly and not all poly's are swingers but you can be both evidently. A lot of swingers only swing with one couple at a time but that doesn't mean that they are "poly". They wouldn't say that they love that person/couple as they do their spouse. I think that's where the real difference lies.

[swing-set 15]

Hi.

 

I have to agree with Julie here. I think being poly means all sorts of things to all sorts of people.

 

My wife are in a relationship that could be best described as "love each other dearly, but also encourage each other to do whatever makes them feel happy and whole, including physical or romantic relationships with others, as long as everyone is completely open and honest." So everyone is on the same page, and it's technically a poly relationship, I guess, since we have our primary relationship (with each other) and zero to more secondary relationships, but we're not stereotypically poly in the sense that we're all one big family. Generally, she does her thing and I do mine when we're separate, and while it's fine to meet the other person's secondary partner(s), it's not a goal.

 

Just my $.02.

[imsnowman 34]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

I just cannot grasp this concept. Where as we choose to only play with people that we have built a relationship with both in and out of the bedroom, we don't have a "love" type relationship that bonds us to being sexually and emotionally united. But yet we would never do anything to bring harm to them, physically or emotionally. So are we "Poly wannabe's?" but really don't want to be since there is no true love involved?

 

The key concept is inside the word itself "Poly---amorous" i.e. multiple "loves". If the people feel love is involved then they have a polyamorous relationship.

 

Some Polys believe in polyfidelity: sexual fidelity within the agreed upon group. Some don't.

 

The key is the emotional commitment i.e. "Love".

 

Since this is not a concept embraced by the larger society there isn't a common definition that one can turn to like "marriage". It is as Julie said

If you consider yourself Poly you are.

 

Ohiohcouple, you're grouping sounds like it has the potential to be poly. But, it sounds like you don't want the further emotional commitment. You don't want to say to people in conversation that you love couple XY. Most polys would probably not consider it a poly relationship until you're able to say Love.

 

BTW, in most instances these relationships can be quite short. One of the more prominent couples in poly (they were on one of the daily talk shows and even had one of their encounters with another couple filmed "G" rated) stayed with that couple for only 3 months.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie

I think it's all about semantics. If you consider yourself Poly you are. Kinda like swinging. Some people say that if you only swing with singles you aren't really swinging or if you only soft-swing you aren't a swinger... blah blah.... it varies from person to person.

I am going to have to go with this theory here and basically leave it there. I will have to assume that it is sorta like the bi-sexual titles and so if anyone ever tells us that they are a poly, then we will just have to ask..."Just what kind of poly are you"?

 

OMGoodness, this whole thing just confuses the heck out of me, but no less confusing than the bi-sexual titles.

 

Lori ~ A socially respectful and tolerant poly in the right situation... I dunno.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by imsnowman

Ohiohcouple, you're grouping sounds like it has the potential to be poly. But, it sounds like you don't want the further emotional commitment. You don't want to say to people in conversation that you love couple XY. Most polys would probably not consider it a poly relationship until you're able to say Love.

This is where I become so confused. Perhaps I am just confusing my ownself.

 

Love has very different meanings (at least the way I know it.) For instance, I love to take my dog for a walk. I love to kick back and read a good book or watch a movie. I have a love for all mankind, therefore I try to be considerate to everyone I meet. I love to spend time with my children and grandchildren.

 

I love the time we spend with our friends, both straight or swingers, but I do not LOVE any of them as I do my husband.

 

Each and every love that I have is emotional for me and heartfelt, but there are varying degrees. If *love* is the key factor here, then how do you define love? There isn't anything that I probably would not do for a stranger that I will do for my on flesh and blood. (I am not talking about sex here).

 

I guess for me that sex is just that, a pleasurable experience to be enjoyed by all parties. My husband and I make love which is much different than the sex we enjoy with parties that we love to be around.

 

Lori

[imsnowman 34]

Originally posted by OhioCouple: This is where I become so confused. Perhaps I am just confusing my ownself.

I think you are. Just think of loving more than one person with a Love-of-spouse-type love.

 

Read through RnKin Fla's post. Think about the implications of those kinds of feelings for the couple that you are closest to in your current friendly way.

 

Originally posted by RnKin Fla: Seeing them leave nearly ripped my heart out.

Would you have this kind of feeling if they left? If not, you're probably not polyamorous. If it would then you probably are with this couple.

[OhioCouple 40]

Thanks "K" and "imsnowman",

 

I think I have a little better understanding of the definition. Although I care about the friends we have made, I do not think my heart would be ripped out if they had to move away or decided that they didn't want to be with us any longer.

 

I would be saddened for sure, but not devastated.

 

Although I am a very giving and loving person in many respects, I don't think I would have enough in me to love some one else in the same respect that I do my husband. That is where the difference lies.

 

Lori

[swing-set 15]

I generally just tell people I'm in an "open relationship" and let it go from there. I've found that a few rounds of questioning and some time spent with the other person generally brings them to a closer understanding of who I am (and who my wife is) than using the word "poly" off the bat, since it's pretty loaded. Though perhaps if there person were an established poly, that would be different.

[OhioCouple 40]

I didn't want to get to specific before, but here is the deal. Perhaps it will shed some better light on my confusion.

 

There is a couple who have openly declared that they are "in love" with another couple. (Not like, enjoy or care about but IN LOVE.) They have decided to see each exclusively. but will not live together. This declaration came in the form of an "engagement/commitment" type of announcement.

 

Now that had to be one of the strangest things I have ever witnessed in my life. (Just when I thought I was beyond being shockable.) They exchanged rings with each other and some passionate kisses between all. Raised a toast to each other and then partied the night away.

 

A brief bio; they are all well spoken, have good jobs, attractive and in the 30-40 age bracket. Both couples have been active swingers for several years with different couples, and now they will have their kids become nieces and nephews to the opposite couple.

 

Now is that an example of a poly relationship?

 

Please note, I am not judging them, I just didn't realize that "swingers" per se do the "fall in love" bit. I wouldn't have been nearly as confused had it been one or the other falling for each other but the group thing stunned me.

[imsnowman 34]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

There is a couple who have openly declared that they are "in love" with another couple. (Not like, enjoy or care about but IN LOVE.) They have decided to see each exclusively. but will not live together. This declaration came in the form of an "engagement/commitment" type of announcement.

 

Now that had to be one of the strangest things I have ever witnessed in my life. (Just when I thought I was beyond being shockable.) They exchanged rings with each other and some passionate kisses between all. Raised a toast to each other and then partied the night away.

 

A brief bio; they are all well spoken, have good jobs, attractive and in the 30-40 age bracket. Both couples have been active swingers for several years with different couples, and now they will have their kids become nieces and nephews to the opposite couple.

This is IMO clearly a polyamorous relationship and would be accepted by most other self-professed polys as such. The "commitment" to an extended relationship is the key.

 

There may be difficulties in getting their kids to really accept becoming nieces and nephews to the opposite couple. However, the obvious advantage to me is that they have at least some of the variety that swingers have and it will significantly reduce (assuming honesty) the danger of STD's. The disadvantage is limited variety and of course all of the attendant problems that very close emotional relationships bring.

 

Wish them luck for me. Thanks.

[OhioCouple 40]

My husband wonders why I keep going on about this, but dang it I want to understand.

 

About 20 years ago (long before I knew about swinging or anything about sex outside of marriage that was acceptable) there was a couple that I knew and the F half of the couple confided to me that her husbands sister was a lesbian (not bi-sexual at all) and that with her husband's consent they (the two females) had an ongoing relationship. He loved to watch, but didn't care if he wasn't there if they were having fun. To the best of my knowledge there was no incest involved.

 

To be honest here, I had a mild bi-sexual experience with the F half of the couple, who tried to get me interested in joining with her sister in law also. The whole idea petrified me.

 

About 5 years ago, I ran into the F half and discovered through talking with her that the sister had bought a home next door to them and that the relationship is still there. (The couple now have 3 children and their relationship is strong).

 

So what kind of relationship is this? Years ago this disturbed me and I kinda kept my distance. But after all I have learned in the last couple of years, I am not as critical as I was then. Would this be a sort of poly/swinging relationship since they are all committed or accepting of each other?

 

Lori

[Guest sixgun8]

Well, if this helps any. Me and my wife had brought another woman into our life. she was kicked out by her husband. We had played together before and offered her a place to live. It started out as her sleeping on a mattress on our floor, but eventually she moved into our bed and slept with us. We were both admittedly in love with her. And her, supposedly, with us. This lasted for about 3 months. We all shared a bed, house and everything. She did however end up with an outside boyfriend. I have to admit that it was quite awkward, but her response was that she always came home to us. That seemed to satisfy my ego, for lack of a better word. Until she ended up spending a couple nights with him in a hotel. Moral to the story was he was stepping out on his wife for their rendezvous.

 

Long story short. We ended up getting emotionally hurt by this woman. I still have fond memories of her and would love to see her again, but it will never happen. I would have to say that we were in a poly-relationship, at least in me and my wife's heart. We were being very faithful to her and let her know that. But she wanted a normal relationship again and moved on.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by sixgun8

this lasted for about 3 months. We all shared a bed, house and everything. She did however end up with an outside boyfriend.

This brings up another issue. For the most part regarding the poly-issues that I have read, these relationships do not last. From just the couple of people that have responded on here that have been in a poly-relationship theirs didn't last long either.

 

Why would someone want to put themselves in a situation to be that deeply hurt? Is it something that you just need at that time and period in your life? Are you just feeling the moment and going for it? Is it a way to kind of like getting you over the rough times?

 

I just don't understand it at all. Perhaps, because I don't give my inner most self to just anyone and when I do give it, I expect it to be forever. I don't expect them to trot off and forget that I exist or cut off contact. This is how I feel about all of my relationships in life, even non-sexual.

[RnKin Fla 15]

Lori,

 

Here is my take on the poly relationship I had:

 

I was not in it just for me, and definitely not for the purpose of getting over some issue in my life. Falling in love with this couple, it just happened. We started out as friends, and I spent a lot of time with them, ended up sleeping with them, and thing progressed from there.

 

I definitely did not intend to have my heart broken. But as we all know from life experiences, anytime you fall in love with someone (or someoneS ), there is a risk.

 

I think because poly relationships are not as accepted by society, they tend to be a little less stable, and therefore don't last as long. This is not the case with all poly relationships, however.

 

I know one triad who have been together for over 6 years. They are unusual, I am sure. But it seems to work for them. Up until recently none of them were married to each other, but last year the man and one of the women got married. Mainly for health insurance purposes. As far as I know, the marriage has not affected the triad in any way, at least not that they have said.

 

Having been the unmarried F in a triad, I can tell you that when you are invited into a married couple's relationship, there is a kernel of insecurity that is hard to overcome. You constantly feel that the other F has more of a claim on the M. This is exacerbated when the couple has kids. But the insecurity can be dispelled. It just takes awhile. I think this insecurity was the reason I did not move with L & A.

 

I firmly believe that I learned a lot about myself, relationships, and interpersonal dynamics from the poly relationship I had. In spite of the fact that I ended up hurt, it was not a bad experience, and being in love is never a bad thing, in my book.

 

Does that make any sense?

[youngish56 15]

Just an opinion from a different angle -

 

are we swingers or are we polyamorous or are we somewhere in the middle ?

 

Some of us enjoy sex with other people, with our spouses approval/involvement. Some of us enjoy the non-sexual personal relationship with that person or those people. Some of us form loving relationships with other people and couples. So much diversity in trying to differentiate between a separate definition for these two categories.

 

If there is any clear difference to be "labeled", I think it would be between the "swingers" who partake in sexual practices without emotional attachment AND the swingers who insist on emotional attraction/involvement to be sexual.

 

Does the requirement of emotional attraction make us NOT swingers ? Does it make us polyamorous ? By many's definition we are neither and both.

 

The commonality is we are attracted to sex with other couples. Trying to categorize or label our activities as "clinically this or that" is of no importance to our real lives.

 

Interesting topic with no real black and white answer.

 

Thanks Lori.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla

Having been the unmarried F in a triad, I can tell you that when you are invited into a married couple's relationship, there is a kernel of insecurity that is hard to overcome. You constantly feel that the other F has more of a claim on the M. This is exacerbated when the couple has kids. But the insecurity can be dispelled. It just takes awhile. I think this insecurity was the reason I did not move with L & A.

 

I firmly believe that I learned a lot about myself, relationships, and interpersonal dynamics from the poly relationship I had. In spite of the fact that I ended up hurt, it was not a bad experience, and being in love is never a bad thing, in my book.

K,

 

Do you mind sharing how old you were in this poly relationship? Was it a first loving relationship? Was age maybe a factor for you? Also, since you weren't able to commit to moving and living out your life with them, was it really a poly relationship as opposed to being a *fling* for lack of better words?

 

Lori ~ Who lives in a state of confusion and who's husband keeps saying drop it...who cares.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by youngish56

If there is any clear difference to be "labeled", I think it would be between the "swingers" who partake in sexual practices without emotional attachment AND the swingers who insist on emotional attraction/involvement to be sexual.

 

Does the requirement of emotional attraction make us NOT swingers ? Does it make us polyamorous ? By many's definition we are neither and both.

 

The commonality is we are attracted to sex with other couples. Trying to categorize or label our activities as "clinically this or that" is of no importance to our real lives.

 

Interesting topic with no real black and white answer.

 

We are the type of swingers that need to have some sort of emotional/intellectual connection in order to be intimate with the other party.

 

I believe the reason this whole subject just confuses is me, is the fact that we are new to swinging, still learning and then we witness this *joining of two couples* at a swingers club.

 

I have been exposed to a lot of things in my lifetime that are not the *norm*. I had thought though, that I had a pretty good grasp on the swinging aspect as I have done a lot of research over the last couple of years. Apparently not enough.

 

My husband feels like it is a matter that needs no further discussion (even though he was as stunned as I was). He is black and white. I, Lori, am grey.

 

Lori

[OhioCouple 40]

From what I read in articles, poly's are generally the same as swingers and do consider themselves as such. The general mindset of these *poly's* were that they did not want a committed relationship, in the sense of long term till death do you part, but more so wanted to be involved in a sexually committed relationship with select partners that they themselves chose to be with. Therefore the terminology/label of polyfidelity.

 

After all the reading and research I have done, I have come to these conclusions:

 

Poly ~ A true poly would be one that has three or more people who share everything (including being in love), but only with each other. I.e., home, finances and raising of children etc.

 

Polyfidelity ~ Where as three or more people share their lives together (not living together) in most aspects and are committed to each other within their group and do not stray from it without the consent or approval of the other parties. (Sexually speaking) This type of grouping also would include a personal friendship such as many may have with their best friends (non-swinger/poly). They love and care about each other, but are not *IN LOVE* with each other.

 

So my thinking is, the couples that I mentioned in an earlier post are *polyfidelity*.

 

Lori ~ Who has WAY too much time on her hands.

[TeamSoBe 36]

Wow, I'm sorry that I missed this one, I've been away on vacation all week.

 

Lori, I spent about a decade in various different poly relationships. I've actually never really had a relationship with anybody that was intended to be monogamous. I just wanted to comment on this:

 

For the most part regarding the poly-issues that I have read, these relationships do not last.

 

This is a pretty popular notion, and I can't really quote any statistics or anything but I don't think that I agree. My personal opinion based on my own experiences and the experiences of friends is that poly relationships last about as long as any other relationship, it's just that they are much more rare than monogamous relationships, so the ones that last for long periods are extremely rare.

 

Think about how many people you have dated in your life. Some of the people that you have been with might have lasted for a few months, some may have lasted for a year or two, one or two might 'stick' for longer than that. It's the same thing with poly relationships.

 

I personally went though a series of triads ("triad" sounds pretty geeky so we normally just called ourselves "threesomes") and foursomes (poly nerds call them "quads") where a common thread through all of them was myself and a long-term girlfriend. We were together for a total of six years and we were involved in some kind of poly relationship or another for the entire time. Six years is an awfully long time. The longest 'stable' relationship that we had was with another bi girl, the three of us bought a house together and lived together for about three and a half years. It did end eventually, but not painfully. People tended to drift gently in and out of our lives, as opposed to the big explosive breakups that you see in most monogamous relationships.

 

One interesting thing is that my long-term girlfriend and I and most of our intimates looked down on swingers. We were always very quick to emphasize the difference between what we were doing and swinging, and we always considered swinging to be a completely different and inferior sort of thing. I obviously don't feel that way now.

 

The woman that I married has never been in any poly situation. She is very into swinging but she tries to be very careful to distance herself so that love isn't an issue. It's a new concept for me but I'm trying it on to see how it fits. I really doubt that it will stick though. Being poly is like being a swinger, it's hard to go back to the 'normal' way once you've experienced it. The joy that you get out of watching somebody that you love fall in love is unbelievable, it's the emotional equivalent of the erotic charge that you get out of watching them fuck somebody new. It's a far more powerful experience than anything that swinging has to offer.

[RnKin Fla 15]

Hi Lori!

 

No, I don't mind sharing. I was 24 at the time I had my poly relationship.

 

I don't think it was a fling. But I do think I did not have the emotional maturity to commit myself and move away from my family like they wanted me to.

 

I'd been married once before (I got married for the first time at 18), so it was not my first loving relationship either.

 

My first husband and I had been into the swinger lifestyle, but he did not follow the ground rules we had set up, and cheated on me all the time. He also spent a lot of time tearing down my self-esteem. So, this relationship was probably partly a way for me to restore some of that lost self esteem too.

 

As so aptly illustrated by Team SoBe, I did not have an explosive breakup with this couple. It was a mutual parting of the ways, and I still think of them fondly.

 

Oh, and Lori, tell your husband that curiosity is a GOOD thing!

[OhioCouple 40]

TeamSoBe,

 

After reading through your post, I need to comment on a few things that take me back to my original confusion. (oh and thanks guys/gals, thought I had this one figured out...but nooooo)

 

I think back to the people that I dated. Some I just lusted after for sex, others I sought a deeper commitment/involvement. (Not talking about either of the men I married here). So basically what you were saying when I should look back at prior relationships, it is a feeling you out, waiting game sort of thing? I'll be true to you as long as we both agree to? Like going steady?

 

In another paragraph you stated that you were in a *poly* relationship for six years, which was a very long time. It wasn't stable but the three and 1/2 year one was? Even though it ended. How could either of those be a poly relationship if you amicably (sp) just drift your own separate ways?

 

The way that I am seeing the above scenarios are just dating type people. Yes, you may live together, have sex only with each other, but there is no firm commitment. In my point of view these types of couple, triads, are just sexually committed and open-minded swingers. Swingers being the operative word.

 

There was a posting a while back from a single that was having problems in a triad relationship as he had strayed from their relationship during a vacation. Eventually I guess the resolved it, but it took some time and work and healing. I would have to say that triad is definitely a poly. It is to my understanding from the posts that the couple definitely wanted this person solely to themselves and his error in judgement nearly cost him some dear friends and lovers. He was obviously just as concerned about it as he posed the questions here and did finally come back and let us know that they had mended their relationship.

 

Perhaps I need to look at the fact that poly's are no better off in a relationship than most fly by night marriages.

 

Lori

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla

 

I was 24 at the time I had my poly relationship.

 

I don't think it was a fling. But I do think I did not have the emotional maturity to commit myself and move away from my family like they wanted me to.

 

I'd been married once before (I got married for the first time at 18), so it was not my first loving relationship either.

 

My first husband and I had been into the swinger lifestyle, but he did not follow the ground rules we had set up, and cheated on me all the time. He also spent a lot of time tearing down my self-esteem. So, this relationship was probably partly a way for me to restore some of that lost self esteem too.

 

K,

 

Okay, you were young, experienced a bad marriage and found solace with another couple that helped you to regain your self esteem. I am not meaning to be critical here but if you took yourself out of the shoes you were in and read what you have written....what would be your assessment?

 

The way I read and see it is that you were a wounded young lady that found comfort in those that gave you the strength to carry on with your life's goals and ambitions. Yes you had sex with them, but that doesn't (in my opinion) make you a swinger or a poly.

 

Ya'll are killing me here! I'll never figure this out now and....my husband will tell me I have over stayed my nine lives in the morning.

 

Lori

[imsnowman 34]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

The way I read and see it is that you were a wounded young lady that found comfort in those that gave you the strength to carry on with your life's goals and ambitions. Yes you had sex with them, but that doesn't (in my opinion) make you a swinger or a poly.Lori

Lori,

Poly is a self-defined state of mind. It is just like marriage only without the legal definition.

 

What would you say RnKin Fla's relationship was if she had married someone who gave you the strength to carry on with your life's goals and ambitions and "only" stayed with them for 1 year. Are they "dating"?

 

How many marriages are like this?

In another paragraph you stated that you were in a *poly* relationship for six years, which was a very long time. It wasn't stable but the three and 1/2 year one was? Even though it ended. How could either of those be a poly relationship if you amicably (sp) just drift your own separate ways?

Does it make it any less a marriage if the people just drift their own separate ways after 3 1/2 or 6 1/2 or 10 or 20 years?

 

Perhaps I need to look at the fact that poly's are no better off in a relationship than most fly by night marriages.

This would be a good idea although I think you're rather looking down your nose at the whole thing. Why else would you add the little fly-by-night comment? How long have your own marriages lasted? What defines fly-by-night to you?

 

You seem to have an attitude of disbelief about the whole subject. Like what all of the people who have responded to your questions aren't telling the "truth" or else it doesn't fit some preconceived notion about poly that you have. Your "confusion" seems more like a persistent attempt to change the definition to fit what you think it should be.

To wit:

was it really a poly relationship as opposed to being a *fling* for lack of better words?

Do people having a fling live like this? Is this your definition of "fling"?

The three of us were all committed to each other, shared a home and a bed, raised the couple's children together. I loved both of them, and they loved me. The kids called me "auntie K," but I was treated more as a second mom, right down to disciplining them and getting goodnight kisses.

Does that sound like you own definition of poly?

Poly ~ A true poly would be one that has three or more people who share everything (including being in love), but only with each other. Ie, home, finances and raising of children etc.

It sure does to me! I think the basic problem is you don't even believe your own stated definition. I think that you don't believe in the idea of poly or maybe you're threatened by it.

To be honest here, I had a mild bi-sexual experience with the F half of the couple, who tried to get me interested in joining with her sister in law also. The whole idea petrified me.

Polyfidelity ~ Where as three or more people share their lives together (not living together)

.And where did you get the idea that polyfidelitious people don't live together? It simply means the same thing that monofidelity to coin a word means. The partners in the relationship are fidelitious to each other. i.e. they don't swing, screw around or otherwise cheat! No sex outside their agreed on group. They can be living together or not. Makes no difference!

 

I'll say it again: Poly is a self-defined state of mind. It is just like marriage only without the legal definition. So lighten up on RnKin Fla. She had a poly relationship with that couple. period.

 

by your confusion!!

[TeamSoBe 36]

Lori, I think that the snowman has summed it up pretty well by saying that poly is a state of mind. Trying to analyze the differences between swinging and poly by looking at quantifiable statistics like the duration of a relationship isn't going to get you any closer to understanding anything.

 

Look at it this way: normal people in theoretically monogamous relationships generally sleep around. Swingers do too. Looking at the behavior, there isn't much difference other than that swingers usually do it in groups. Socially though, the big difference is that swingers don't hide the sex from their partners, they share it with each other. Swinging is a state of mind, swingers walk around enjoying the idea that they are sophisticated enough to be able to share in their outside sexual experiences with their partners.

 

Poly is the exact same thing, but with regard to emotional bonding with other people rather than sex. People in normal monogamous relationships fall in love with other people all the time, the difference with poly people is that they don't hide it from their partners. They share the experience with each other. The whole idea for polys is that it's a wonderful and exciting thing to be able to share the joy of the energy that you feel when you fall in love. Having an intimate sexual partner that loves and supports you while you're learning about somebody new is a pretty powerful thing. It's all extremely romantic and I still say that it's far more powerful than anything that swinging has to offer.

 

Some clarification on my personal experiences though:

 

Originally posted by OhioCouple

So basically what you were saying when I should look back at prior relationships, it is a feeling you out, waiting game sort of thing? I'll be true to you as long as we both agree to? Like going steady?

 

Well, a lot of poly relationships are a lot like going steady. You're on the eternal quest for the perfect relationship that 'sticks' and you try to get there by going through different relationships and giving each one a chance. Some poly relationships last much longer and look more like a real marriage, some don't. My longest was six years and involved the purchase of a house. I've only been with my wife for three years so far, so I do think that it's unjustified to label poly situations as inherently less committed. Poly relationships are more fluid, is all. If it makes sense for one person to leave the group and go off on their own, then that will normally just happen peacefully in a poly situation rather than the forever-or-bust situation that you see in monogamous relationships.

 

Originally posted by OhioCouple

In another paragraph you stated that you were in a *poly* relationship for six years, which was a very long time. It wasn't stable but the three and 1/2 year one was? Even though it ended. How could either of those be a poly relationship if you amicably (sp) just drift your own separate ways?

 

This all overlaps. I personally was involved in poly relationships for about a decade, in a sort of continuous peaceful flow from one configuration to the next. For about six years a common element in my relationships was a particular long-term girlfriend. We went through all kinds of situations together that you could liken to 'going steady' with various people, some lasted longer than others. One of those configurations was with another bi girl, that's the one that lasted for three and a half years. Our threesome was very stable and ultimately only ended because of health problems, one of the girls was hospitalized. A while after that the long-term girlfriend drifted out of my life when our social circle split in two because some of us moved out to Silicon Valley. I tried moving out there but it didn't stick for me, she was a computer scientist also and she happened to be falling in love with my best friend, another computer scientist. She left me our house (it was during the tech boom when houses were cheap to us) and went with him, they're traditionally married now and have a son together. That was probably more detail than you strictly needed, but you seemed to be a little confused by my abridged description.

 

Originally posted by OhioCouple

The way that I am seeing the above scenarios are just dating type people. Yes, you may live together, have sex only with each other, but there is no firm commitment.

 

The long-term girlfriend and I were together for six years, through college and through the first few years after college. We started a company together that is still doing good business and supporting my wife and I today, we bought a house together and shared vehicles. When it made sense for us to go our separate ways we divided our shared assets responsibly with no messy divorce battle. We were together 24/7 through some of the most exciting years of our life, we supported each other through college and through striking out on our own in the real world, we treated each others' families as family, we shared sexual conquests and the energy of new relationships with each other, and we explored each of our bisexuality together. It was arguably a far more committed and successful relationship than most marriages.

 

Originally posted by OhioCouple

In my point of view these types of couple, triads, are just sexually committed and open-minded swingers. Swingers being the operative word.

 

I'll flat-out disagree with that one. As the snowman says, poly is a state of mind. The emphasis for poly people is always love and the relationship, never sex. Sometimes poly relationships don't involve all-around sex at all. The long-term girlfriend that I mention above was in the habit of dating lesbians for a while, one of them in particular for quite a while. That lesbian and I were pals and we had a lot in common since we were both in love with the same woman, but we didn't have a sexual relationship.

 

Poly people don't run around flirting all the time or making sexual innuendo all the time like swingers do. They don't emphasize sex and sexuality all the time, they emphasize love and friendship and relationships. They are romantic, where swingers are erotic. They are an entirely different beast than swingers and they generally look down on swinging as being a completely different and very inferior thing.

 

Originally posted by OhioCouple

Perhaps I need to look at the fact that poly's are no better off in a relationship than most fly by night marriages.

 

As the snowman points out, that's a drastic oversimplification. Most poly people would find that statement as offensive as we find it when people come in here and tell us that swinging is just a rationalization for cheating on our spouses.

[RnKin Fla 15]

Lori,

 

There's not much more I can add. Imsnowman and TeamSoBe summed it up quite nicely.

 

I don't believe I was simply dating that couple, nor do I believe I used them or had a fling with them. It was a committed, loving relationship.

 

I don't know how to explain it otherwise to you.

 

And that is ok. You don't have to understand it. Honestly, I don't think you have the temperament to understand it. You've said before that you could never share you innermost person with anyone but your sole, significant other. And that is fine - that is what works for you.

 

I, however, can. In the right situation, and with the right people, I am capable of sharing my entire self with them.

 

Anyhow, I appreciate Imsnowman sticking up for me. But I wasn't offended. What Lori has said is mild compared to the things my mother has said about my unorthodox lifestyle over the years.

 

[TeamSoBe 36]

K, that was a big problem for me too. Swinging is easy to hide from family, but poly relationships can be pretty difficult to conceal. My parents are exceptionally cool, but many are not. That's why you see a lot of poly relationships with a traditional straight couple as an inner core, or poly relationships where everybody has an long-term opposite-gender partner to fall back on as a cover story for family and friends that just wouldn't understand. If two swinging couples fall in love and everybody realizes that they are cool with that, then they have basically ended up at the same place from a different angle.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla

...In the right situation, and with the right people, I am capable of sharing my entire self with them.

 

Anyhow, I appreciate Imsnowman sticking up for me. But I wasn't offended. What Lori has said is mild compared to the things my mother has said about my unorthodox lifestyle over the years.

K,

 

I am sorry I didn't see this earlier, I haven't been feeling well and have had a lot going on. I certainly did not mean to offend you if I did, I apologize.

 

I realize that I am making a bigger deal out of this than needs be, but I am just trying to come to an understanding of what a poly is. I appreciate your sharing with us your relationship.

 

Perhaps the reason it is so difficult for me to understand is that I am rarely capable of being truly committed to one person, much less multiples, due to my own upbringing. (This has to do with more complicated issues.)

 

I certainly do not condemn or look down on poly relationships, by doing so it was be as biased as doing so with bi-sexuals, homosexuals, race, creed, religious beliefs and such. I have no bias for any of them and little tolerance for those that do.

 

I was merely trying to understand and Imsnowman, TeamSoBe and yourself have enlightened me greatly. For that I thank you all.

 

Lori

[TeamSoBe 36]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

Perhaps the reason it is so difficult for me to understand is that I am rarely capable of being truly committed to one person, much less multiples...

 

Lori, that's the way that a lot of people look at polyamory. They look at the problems that normal couples face in staying together and assume that it's got to be even more difficult to hold a poly relationship together if there are even more people on-hand to make stupid mistakes, cheat on each other, fight over miscommunication, all of that stuff that tears up any relationship. The people who think that are correct, poly relationships are much more complex and it requires more work to hold them together.

 

For some people, the extra added complexity of the situation is part of the fun. Some people are happy drinking Kendall Jackson. It's simple, tastes good, gets the job done. Some people prefer something like an Opus One. A bottle of Opus One is a pain in the ass to get your hands on and your wallet resents it, but it includes a complexity and robustness that you don't find in a 'normal' grocery store bottle of wine. The added depth and flavor of a poly three-way or four-way is what some of us enjoy.

 

Look at it this way, when you're in a couple, there is one relationship, the one between the two of you. If we add a third person then you now have four relationships. Each of you have a relationship with each other individually that has a particular flavor to it and that you hopefully enjoy experiencing. That's three relationships going on at once when there used to be one. Then when the three of you are together your relationship has a new feel to it. Four relationships running along and developing character at the same time instead of just one.

 

The whole thing only works if you love people pretty easily and if you are capable of focusing and committing yourself emotionally to the people that you love. If not then it isn't for you, but some people enjoy learning both of those traits as they go along.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by imsnowman

And where did you get the idea that polyfidelitious people don't live together?

Actually I got the idea from one of the sites I have read up on, not from what any one person has said here.

 

Thanks to all who have responded and believe it or not, I think I finally got it. I believe the reason I couldn't grasp the concept had everything to do with my emotional upbringing. Nothing like having to pound something in someone's head huh?

 

Lori ~ Another day older and wiser.

[RnKin Fla 15]

Ahhh Lori, I wasn't offended.

 

And I don't mind sharing. I like to hear myself talk (or type ), if you hadn't guessed.

 

:lol:

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla

I like to hear myself talk (or type ), if you hadn't guessed.

Geesh, I am glad I am not the only one!

 

Lori

[OhioCouple 40]

I wanted to bring this topic back up as I feel this update is important to the original questions. The reason for my questioning this was due to an event that I witnessed where as two couples decided to commit themselves to each other. This past week they have decided to not only separate as couples but each other as a couple and both couples are getting divorced.

 

I am as stunned now as I was when the announced their commitment.

 

Lori

[Ashley 22]

Lori,

I have to laugh, not at you, but with you. Poly is indeed a confusing concept but polys are no more capable of holding together relationships than monos are. I've considered myself poly for the last 3 years and I've only been swinging for a month. Most polys disdain swingers because the sex outside the primary relationship is "just sex", no emotional involvement. Polys embrace, no, "require" emotional involvement. I have to admit that I had a lot of misconceptions about swinging before I tried it. I thought that it would diminish my feelings for my partner....imagine my surprise when it deepened them. Life is perverse, we have to experience to really understand.

[OhioCouple 40]

Ashley,

 

Just curious, are you part of a poly triad or a quad? Is everyone swinging in your group or just you and your partner? What made you look at swinging? Is that acceptable for poly relationships? Just trying to understand some more here.

 

 

Lori

[Ashley 22]

Lori,

I'm in what is called a V. That means I have a relationship with two people(in this case both men)but they don't have a relationship with each other. They both know about each other though, everything is out in the open, no cheating. The reason I tried swinging is because my new lover has been in the lifestyle for a few years and frankly, I was curious. I still consider myself more poly than a swinger but both have their pluses and minuses and what they share is a sex positive philosophy. Swinging is less threatening I think because of the lack of emotional commitment to the other people you have sex with.

[JamesTKirk 15]

I had half the day off yesterday and flipped on the tube. It so happened that Montel was covering swinging, polyamory, bigamy etc on his show yesterday. I don't know if any of you all saw that. Anyway, the polyamory triad/triumvirate/whatever involved a female who lived with her boyfriend but spent a week every 6 weeks with another man 1,000 miles away. She met the "other man" while filming a documentary on, of all things, polyamory with her live-in boyfriend.

 

I had heard the term but didn't know that the heck polyamory was until that show. To me, it seems to involve emotional commitment vs. swinging in general (okay that's just my definition), but that's how I understand it. It's not my thing, but I respect those to whom it appeals. Swinging to my wife and I is about fantasy fulfillment in the context of enhancing our relationship with each other. I cannot relate to having an emotional relationship with another woman besides my wife, so polyamory isn't for me. To each his/her own though:)

[Uneed_Love 15]

This is a copy and past made from the very interesting website (https://www.lovingmorenonprofit.org/) about polyamory.

 

"Polyamory (many loves) is a relatively new word created for relationships where an adult intimately loves more than one other adult. This includes forms like open couples, group marriage, intimate networks, triads and even people who currently have one or no partners, yet are open to the possibility of more. It is another word for nonmonogamy.

 

People who describe themselves as polyamorous (or poly) also usually embrace the value of honesty in relationships. They do not want to have affairs or cheat on a loved one and are dedicated to growing beyond jealousy and possession in relationships. It is usual for them to make safer sex agreements and be committed to full communication.

 

Loving More® has a specific vision of relationships based on honesty, openness, respect for the individual, love as an infinite resource, the body and sexuality as sacred, and relationship as a path to personal & spiritual growth. In this vision, there's room for more love, more intimacy, more possibilities, and more people.

 

Accordingly, there is also more responsibility and challenge: a deeply personal challenge to transform ourselves, our lives, and our world into a more loving and responsible place."

 

Another interesting website about polyamory can be found at http://www.polyamorysociety.org

 

I hope this will help.

 

Take Care

 

Jean-Claude

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by JamesTKirk

It's not my thing, but I respect those to whom it appeals. Swinging to my wife and I is about fantasy fulfillment in the context of enhancing our relationship with each other. I cannot relate to having an emotional relationship with another woman besides my wife, so polyamory isn't for me. To each his/her own though:)

We are right there with ya. It isn't for us either.

 

Lori

[Ashley 22]

I hope no one will think I'm being contentious here. To me the difference between polyamory and swinging is swinging trivializes sex. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that loving sex is better, much better. When my bf and I have sex with strangers we're really treating the other people as objects since we don't really know them well enough to have deep feelings for them. Granted they are consenting objects and I'm sure they feel the same about us. Just a datapoint.

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by Ashley

I hope no one will think I'm being contentious here. To me the difference between polyamory and swinging is swinging trivializes sex. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that loving sex is better, much better. When my bf and I have sex with strangers we're really treating the other people as objects since we don't really know them well enough to have deep feelings for them. Granted they are consenting objects and I'm sure they feel the same about us. Just a datapoint.

I am not sure that I would say that swinging sex is trivial, but I do know that it is much different than what I share with my husband. I do understand what you are saying though. I personally would have a hard time have the same type of loving sex that I have with my husband with another couple. One loving relationship of that sort keeps me pretty active. Kudo's though to those that can manage it, I just couldn't.

 

Lori