If it were legal - would you sell your sex?

[couplers 4,615]

On 3/5/2022 at 8:16 AM, MidwestHoneys said:

Everyone sells their body.

Agreed, you just need to be wise how you do it.  One can be exploited not doing anything physical, but selling your intellect and time.

 

On 3/5/2022 at 8:16 AM, MidwestHoneys said:

How you use your body is your choice

Agree again.  But even if it is voluntary doesn't necessarily make it a good choice.  I'd rather have one of our daughters be a stripper in college than one of our sons play football for a college scholarship.  (Note of clarification: we adults in our poly family consider all of the children each of ours, and the children consider all of us their parents.)

[Aphroditee 323]

In my early 20's I used to sell shots at a gentleman's club, so I've had times where people offered to pay me for my "time."  I have done it a few times and it was a good experience, but for the few I accepted, I said not to a lot more.  I dont do Fake very well so I really need to be attracted to the men and women I sleep with.  The money was good though.  I think it should be legalized.

[herpob 563]

I know that this will come across as if I am joking but I am not. 

 

I would totally rent my husband for sex. I of course would have to be there as well but I would so be willing to make money off of his talents and giftings.  

[couplers 4,615]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:52 PM, herpob said:

I would totally rent my husband for sex.

That's exactly what I did with my husband, except I lent him out for free to female friends and acquaintances of my choosing.  It was a control thing: me choosing the women that he slept with, then telling him it was arranged and to do it - but he never complained.  It turned out to be easier to set up than I thought, but then, it was free and he is good looking.  I think a lot of single women want to have sex with another woman's husband.

 

On 3/10/2022 at 9:52 PM, herpob said:

I of course would have to be there as well

That was a little harder to arrange.  Many women took me up on my offer to screw my husband, but few let me watch, fewer let me participate.  

Edited March 12, 2022 by couplers

[Sawman 84]

21 hours ago, couplers said:

That's exactly what I did with my husband,

My fantasy, but women are very territorial

[enhancer 1,584]

No neither of us would and we wouldn’t buy it either!   We fuck people we are mutually attracted to for enjoyment and don’t fuck people we are not mutually attracted too.

[Shore2Please 610]

Thankfully I don’t need the money. I just wish the government wouldn’t control what people do with their bodies as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. It is kind of hypocritical that men in power use that power to have sex, men in power who have sex and then pay to keep their secret quiet. I don’t like that men will force women into sex and then steal the pay. If selling sex pays the rent, the food or lets someone live a decent life, as long as they are careful and not transmitting disease, they should be able to do so. 
This goes for men too who will satisfy women’s wants. I have never been to a bachelorette party that had men dancers who would do more but I’ve heard. 

[couplers 4,615]

On 3/13/2022 at 8:22 AM, Sawman said:

My fantasy, but women are very territorial

You're right, I include myself as being territorial.  But one of the best moves that I ever made was letting other women into my domain, both to watch her performance with my husband and, when possible, to lure her into sex with me.  Sometimes you give a little and get a lot. 

[EastInWest 1,524]

On 3/13/2022 at 2:43 PM, enhancer said:

No neither of us would and we wouldn’t buy it either!   We fuck people we are mutually attracted to for enjoyment and don’t fuck people we are not mutually attracted too.

Of course, I assume in this hypothetical that that the vendor is being selective about their customer base. 😄

 

Years ago, I had a sex dream where Mrs. E was interested in an extremely expensive dress or something, and I found her in the office on her knees, topless, blowing the manager in trade for a steep discount. Just a nonsense dream that has messy real-life implications, but the scenario was hot, provided there's actually attraction there.

 

[herpob 563]

On 3/12/2022 at 11:53 AM, couplers said:

Many women took me up on my offer to screw my husband, but few let me watch, fewer let me participate.  

What selfish ladies.     I get it.   One on one with the man is amazing (as I'm certain your is).   Sad that they had to be so closed minded.  Wonder it a good pin camera might work?  I can't help it's so much fun to watch. 

 

On 3/12/2022 at 11:53 AM, couplers said:

That's exactly what I did with my husband.  I think a lot of single women want to have sex with another woman's husband.

I LOVE IT.

 

I agree a lot of single women do want that type of sex, noncommittal, safer, fun, etc., and many more reasons. 

 

I love the man but I am not clingy and other women pick up in it. I get inquiries about him quite often when we are out and about.

[couplers 4,615]

7 hours ago, herpob said:

What selfish ladies...   Sad that they had to be so closed minded

I wouldn't call them selfish or closed minded, these were non-swingers who were persuaded (by me and sexual desire) to try some forbidden fruit. 

7 hours ago, herpob said:

a good pin camera

I'd never do that, it's a violation of trust.

7 hours ago, herpob said:

 

I agree a lot of single women do want that type of sex, noncommittal, safer, fun, etc., and many more reasons

Women want what another woman already has.  Fucking her husband is the ultimate.

[EastInWest 1,524]

I just remembered this thread. On our vacation, I left Mrs. E alone for about ten minutes, and in that time she got chatted up and ended up with a phone number.

 

Some texting went well enough that - my idea - she ended up having a solo lunch date with him while I got some work done. The pretext was a shopping trip at a department store to try to find a new swimsuit.

 

She didn't end up buying anything, but trying a few on was a good prelude to the rest of her afternoon, and we had a good laugh that she could have easily turned it into a very different kind of date and worked out a pretty favorable arrangement.

[AndrewandAnn 360]

 

On 3/13/2022 at 4:27 PM, Shore2Please said:

Thankfully I don’t need the money. I just wish the government wouldn’t control what people do with their bodies as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. It is kind of hypocritical that men in power use that power to have sex, men in power who have sex and then pay to keep their secret quiet. I don’t like that men will force women into sex and then steal the pay. If selling sex pays the rent, the food or lets someone live a decent life, as long as they are careful and not transmitting disease, they should be able to do so. 
This goes for men too who will satisfy women’s wants. I have never been to a bachelorette party that had men dancers who would do more but I’ve heard. 

Fundamentally, we agree that government should let people pursue their own happiness as they see fit with as little interference as is possible. If two adults want to exchange money for sex, so be it. 

 

That's not to say we endorse that idea. In fact, we find it repugnant. What does it say about someone that they have to pay someone else to have sex with them? Or that someone is willing to sell their own sexuality for a fistful of sweaty money? 

 

Lastly, the notion "men in power" are the problem is sexist baloney. Look at all the recent headlines of female teachers preying on male students. People in power, male or female, are often prone to abuse their authority. It's a flaw in human nature not limited to men.

 

And their are plenty of women who pursue men in power. They are certainly not victims.

[Numex 2,409]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:52 PM, herpob said:

I would totally rent my husband for sex.

 

On 3/12/2022 at 9:53 AM, couplers said:

That's exactly what I did with my husband, except I lent him out for free to female friends and acquaintances

 

On 3/13/2022 at 8:22 AM, Sawman said:

My fantasy, but women are very territorial

A view from the other, my wife's, side.  Before we met and my wife was single, she had relationships with plenty of married men.  Daniela preferred that for a number of reasons: a married man had already been pre-approved by some woman; she liked sampling and exploring what other women had; the relationship was self-limited; Daniela was looking for a relationship but not marriage or father for a baby; despite exchanging I love you's, men did not leave their wives; she liked being the "other woman" because it made her the person of the three having the most control.

 

She met almost all of the wives.  If there wasn't an excuse for the three of them to be together, she would have the guy tell her when the wife would be somewhere, like a coffeeshop on a Saturday morning.  (If he hesitated, she would threaten to cut him off, it always worked.)  Daniela would then show up and engage her in a conversation.  It always went well and the wife would go home to tell him about the lovely woman she had met.  One guy who was a professional colleague of Daniela, not a coworker, his wife engage Daniela in a pleasant conversation at a conference.  She did mention in the middle of the conversation that Daniela must have a "golden pussy" because her husband like Daniela so much.  She said no, it's just the technique and the conversation went on and they went to dinner alone, without her husband.  Daniela said that she never ruined a marriage, but she fixed quite a few.

 

As you can tell, we talked about our sexual pasts (and fantasies) a lot.  There were only three rules that I set when we started in the lifestyle by Daniela playing alone: everyone knows what's going on, including that the other guy knew that I knew; her outside sex supplemented and did not replace our sex (no problem there); and NO MARRIED MEN unless the wife knew.  We had a number of dinners with single guys and couples at least several days before any play took place.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Numex

[couplers 4,615]

On 8/21/2022 at 2:52 PM, Numex said:

Daniela said that she never ruined a marriage, but she fixed quite a few

In a weird way, I can understand that. 

[herpob 563]

  On 8/21/2022 at 4:52 PM, Numex said:

Daniela said that she never ruined a marriage, but she fixed quite a few

 

So she was paid in sex for fixing marriages.   That gives me an idea...

 

 

[PSULioness 839]

I read this post years ago and just skipped over it because it didn’t mean anything to me or my life. Now I came across the post again and reading some of the answers trouble me. It reminds me of an old adage, or is it a bible verse, He who is without sin, let them throw the first stone. 
Let’s substitute other situations for the word sex. 
If it were legal would you:

Speed while driving

Smoke pot, I know it is now legal in some places. 
Talk on your phone while driving. 
Have a few drinks before driving 

Jaywalking

Not picking up your dog’s poop

Littering

Using a false name on the internet

How about singing Happy Birthday in public, it’s a copyrighted song. 
Playing cards with your friends

Public drunkenness 

Certain sexual behavior 

and the big one everyone is upset with

PROSTITUTION. 

 

You might think of many of these acts as Victimless Crimes or consensual crimes, crimes that don’t harm. Bigamy, ticket scalping, gambling, and prostitution. 
Some have noted that many of us are prostitutes without thinking we are. 
 

Do people in the lifestyle bring a gift to a meeting or party knowing sex is involved. Others noted that we have been rewarded for sex with a dinner, a movie Or possibly a small trinket. 
 

Do you think getting a reward for having sex is wrong? Why not ask why a person would accept a gift, cash, for having sex. Is accepting a gift any different from getting satisfaction from sex with a stranger. We all have needs, some are physical, some emotional, and others have needs to pay rent or bills. 
Who are we to judge others needs? 

 

 

[couplers 4,615]

On 8/21/2022 at 6:37 AM, AndrewandAnn said:

What does it say about someone that they have to pay someone else to have sex with them?

Who was it that said, “You don’t pay a prostitute for sex, you pay her to leave.”?

[couplers 4,615]

10 hours ago, PSULioness said:

Now I came across the post again

Welcome back!  I missed you!  I hope that all is well.  As a now "relatively" young married woman who started swinging early in our marriage, I identify with you and empathize with your posts.  Please stick around.

Thanks,

Petra

[AndrewandAnn 360]

10 hours ago, PSULioness said:

I read this post years ago and just skipped over it because it didn’t mean anything to me or my life. Now I came across the post again and reading some of the answers trouble me. It reminds me of an old adage, or is it a bible verse, He who is without sin, let them throw the first stone. 
Let’s substitute other situations for the word sex. 
If it were legal would you:

Speed while driving

Smoke pot, I know it is now legal in some places. 
Talk on your phone while driving. 
Have a few drinks before driving 

Jaywalking

Not picking up your dog’s poop

Littering

Using a false name on the internet

How about singing Happy Birthday in public, it’s a copyrighted song. 
Playing cards with your friends

Public drunkenness 

Certain sexual behavior 

and the big one everyone is upset with

PROSTITUTION. 

 

You might think of many of these acts as Victimless Crimes or consensual crimes, crimes that don’t harm. Bigamy, ticket scalping, gambling, and prostitution. 
Some have noted that many of us are prostitutes without thinking we are. 
 

Do people in the lifestyle bring a gift to a meeting or party knowing sex is involved. Others noted that we have been rewarded for sex with a dinner, a movie Or possibly a small trinket. 
 

Do you think getting a reward for having sex is wrong? Why not ask why a person would accept a gift, cash, for having sex. Is accepting a gift any different from getting satisfaction from sex with a stranger. We all have needs, some are physical, some emotional, and others have needs to pay rent or bills. 
Who are we to judge others needs? 

 

 

I'm not sure if you're just wanting to make a statement? Or, if you're actually interested in discussing the subject? I'll give this the benefit of the doubt and assume your intention is the latter.

 

Respectfully, the people who say they have "no problem" with prostitution are, knowingly or unknowingly, being intellectually disingenuous. And it's easy to prove.

 

To those who say they have "no problem" with prostitution, here are a few questions to ponder:

 

Would you like to live next door to a brothel?

Would you like to raise your children while living next door to a brothel?

Would you like a brothel located next to your children's grade school or high school?

Would you like a brothel located next to your place of work or your place of worship?

Would you like a brothel located next to your mother's or grandmother's house?

Would you invite a prostitute and her pimp to your house for dinner?

 

I'll go out on a limb and say the answers to those questions are, "No."

 

So, in reality, the people who say they have "no problem" with prostitution actually do have a problem with it. They just haven't thought through the question thoroughly enough to realize they do.

 

As informed adults, we understand prostitution carries with it certain inescapable social ills. Prostitutes do not sell their bodies because of the "glamour" of the job or because they "like sex". That's ridiculous fantasy that bears no semblance to reality.

 

Most prostitutes are young, poor run-a-ways and lead very troubled, miserable lives. Many have been sexually abused. Many are addicted to illicit drugs. They are broken, desperate people (mostly girls) at the ends of the ropes.

 

Prostitutes are not sexually liberated. They are sexually exploited--both by the "johns" who patronize them and by the pimps they work for. In fact, it is usually the pimps who "farm" the young run-a-ways into prostitution, first by getting them addicted to drugs, then by coercing them into prostitution to pay for their habits, then by terrorizing them with physical violence to keep them earning. The girls are objectified and dehumanized, and are essentially subjected to a modern form of human bondage. Then, when the girls are in the deep stages of their addictions and have lost whatever sex appeal they once had and can no longer turn tricks, their pimps discard them like used toilet paper.

 

How many "happily retired" prostitutes have you ever met or read about? 

 

I find prostitution to be repugnant not because of some holier-than-thou moralistic position, but because the objective evidence provided by law enforcement, researchers, and healthcare workers leads me to that conclusion.

 

I'll be glad to read your reply.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by AndrewandAnn

[couplers 4,615]

Like many topics, sex work is a question of where to draw the line.  Sugar daddies and young women?  Old rich men who marry young women (with prenups, of course)?  Strippers?  Self-employed women who perform on camera in their own bedroom? 

 

As was said, I don't know any prostitutes current or former, but they are likely not happy.  I do, however, know two women who stripped/danced during college and turned out all right.  A girl I know from high school aggressively (and successfully) pursued a married professor during a summer college course for advanced students.  Not for money, but because he was sophisticated and worldly.  It turned out well, she's happily married and her husband knows.

 

I wish that I were wise enough to even have a position on where the line should be drawn.

[couplers 4,615]

3 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

you're actually interested in discussing the subject?

I'm confused.  It seems to me that you and Lioness are mostly in agreement, like that drunk driving is not a victimless activity.  (Although I am confused about the "one without sin casting the first stone" quote.)

[AndrewandAnn 360]

3 hours ago, couplers said:

Like many topics, sex work is a question of where to draw the line.  Sugar daddies and young women?  Old rich men who marry young women (with prenups, of course)?  Strippers?  Self-employed women who perform on camera in their own bedroom? 

 

As was said, I don't know any prostitutes current or former, but they are likely not happy.  I do, however, know two women who stripped/danced during college and turned out all right.  A girl I know from high school aggressively (and successfully) pursued a married professor during a summer college course for advanced students.  Not for money, but because he was sophisticated and worldly.  It turned out well, she's happily married and her husband knows.

 

I wish that I were wise enough to even have a position on where the line should be drawn.

For me, the line is not very difficult to draw.

 

I do not consider stripping/dancing, or even performing porn, to be the same as prostitution. Strippers/dancers are, obviously, not actually performing sex. Porn actresses/actors are hired on a contract basis and determine what sex acts they will, or will not, perform and with whom. They are not performing under duress or threat of violence, or under the (obvious) influence of drugs, and often have the benefit of being surrounded by an entire crew of people, some of whom have the responsibility for looking out for their welfare . Also, they are subject to health screenings and often drug tests.

 

However, I will acknowledge, some people will lump all these things together, and see them as being about the same.

 

 

 

[AndrewandAnn 360]

3 hours ago, couplers said:

I'm confused.  It seems to me that you and Lioness are mostly in agreement, like that drunk driving is not a victimless activity.  (Although I am confused about the "one without sin casting the first stone" quote.)

I believe the Lioness and I see the subject very differently.

 

I believe the point she was trying to make is that we are not to judge (quoting her, "Who are we to judge others' needs? He who is without sin..."), and that we are all a little guilty of prostitution-like behavior to one degree or another.

 

I find the analogies she attempts to make to be not very compelling. Jaywalking, re-selling tickets, or singing "Happy birthday" is in no way analogous with prostitution. They don't exist in the same universe. 

[couplers 4,615]

3 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

For me, the line is not very difficult to draw.

...

However, I will acknowledge, some people will lump all these things together, and see them as being about the same.

Your reply is well reasoned and easily understood: you draw the line at coercion.  I fully agree, but then it does not come down to prostitution versus other sex work, but rather any activities that are compelled through force or violence, which theoretically could be any of them?  I really know nothing about the subject, but in some countries are brothels not established, licensed and regulated by the government and the rooms leased to the women under supervision?  Would that be morally ok?  And would a woman who is under compulsion to be a camgirl be immoral?  Best regards, Petra

[couplers 4,615]

3 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

I believe the Lioness and I see the subject very differently.

Perhaps Lioness will respond and clear things up.

[PJ&Lin 188]

12 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

To those who say they have "no problem" with prostitution, here are a few questions to ponder:

 

On 8/21/2022 at 8:37 AM, AndrewandAnn said:

Fundamentally, we agree that government should let people pursue their own happiness as they see fit with as little interference as is possible. If two adults want to exchange money for sex, so be it. 

Have you changed your thoughts?

12 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

Would you like to live next door to a brothel?

Would you like to raise your children while living next door to a brothel?

Would you like a brothel located next to your children's grade school or high school?

Would you like a brothel located next to your place of work or your place of worship?

Would you like a brothel located next to your mother's or grandmother's house?

Would you invite a prostitute and her pimp to your house for dinner?

Would you like to have a bar, gun club, dance club, swinger’s club, motel, gas station or a myriad of other businesses next door, next to a grade school, church or have that church next to your house? I don’t know where you would find a brothel outside of Nevada, as all businesses must get variances to build. 
Do prostitutes have to have pimps and if one did why would you invite the pimp to your house? Is it fine to invite swingers to your house for sex? Would you want swinger clubs next to your mother or grandmother? If we invited a friend over for sex does it make a difference if we paid that friend?

 

5 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

 

I do not consider stripping/dancing, or even performing porn, to be the same as prostitution. Strippers/dancers are, obviously, not actually performing sex. Porn actresses/actors are hired on a contract basis and determine what sex acts they will, or will not, perform and with whom. They are not performing under duress or threat of violence, or under the (obvious) influence of drugs, 

You sound like the moral police. Strippers and dancers don’t actually perform sex? Have you ever gone to a strip club? 
Porn actress are hired to have sex just like a prostitute, she can choose who and what she will do. I guess you have never read a biography written by a porn star, Linda Lovelace, I think she was one of the first mainstream porn stars said she was forced to perform sex acts. 
You seem to imply that prostitution is forced by a pimp, I disagree. If you ever attended a large university you will know at least one coed who worked the bars on her own. 

[AndrewandAnn 360]

10 hours ago, couplers said:

Your reply is well reasoned and easily understood: you draw the line at coercion.  I fully agree, but then it does not come down to prostitution versus other sex work, but rather any activities that are compelled through force or violence, which theoretically could be any of them?  I really know nothing about the subject, but in some countries are brothels not established, licensed and regulated by the government and the rooms leased to the women under supervision?  Would that be morally ok?  And would a woman who is under compulsion to be a camgirl be immoral?  Best regards, Petra

What I actually wrote was that I find prostitution to be repugnant.

 

My position on prostitution is simple enough to understand: I think it should be legal and regulated.

 

As a social libertarian, there exist many things I find both repugnant, and immoral, that I believe should remain legal.

 

Regarding prostitution, I think some of the social ills attached to it could be mitigated if it were both legal and regulated. Take the lottery, for example. I don't gamble and believe it is a tax upon ignorance and stupidity and, as such, is immoral. Statistics overwhelmingly demonstrate the poorest people, the ones who can least afford to gamble away their meager resources, are the ones who participate in the largest numbers. However, I understand the lure. Also, I understand society is better off with the lottery, and other forms of gambling, being regulated, rather than having them exist in the shadows and run by organized crime.

 

I feel the same way about tobacco. Smoking or chewing tobacco are two of the most damaging things a person can do to his/her body. Tobacco is a known carcinogen and the largest direct, and indirect, cause of cancer deaths in the US. It is a highly addictive substance, intentionally made more so by tobacco companies. I find it repugnant and believe tobacco companies are, by definition, immoral. Yet, I believe it should remain legal and regulated. If people want to poison themselves by ingesting smoke into their mouths and lungs, or by chewing it, so be it.

 

Do you understand my positions?

[AndrewandAnn 360]

8 hours ago, PJ&Lin said:

 

Have you changed your thoughts?

Would you like to have a bar, gun club, dance club, swinger’s club, motel, gas station or a myriad of other businesses next door, next to a grade school, church or have that church next to your house? I don’t know where you would find a brothel outside of Nevada, as all businesses must get variances to build. 
Do prostitutes have to have pimps and if one did why would you invite the pimp to your house? Is it fine to invite swingers to your house for sex? Would you want swinger clubs next to your mother or grandmother? If we invited a friend over for sex does it make a difference if we paid that friend?

 

You sound like the moral police. Strippers and dancers don’t actually perform sex? Have you ever gone to a strip club? 
Porn actress are hired to have sex just like a prostitute, she can choose who and what she will do. I guess you have never read a biography written by a porn star, Linda Lovelace, I think she was one of the first mainstream porn stars said she was forced to perform sex acts. 
You seem to imply that prostitution is forced by a pimp, I disagree. If you ever attended a large university you will know at least one coed who worked the bars on her own. 

Have I changed my thoughts? No. See my earlier reply to couplers. Just because I find something to be repugnant, doesn't mean I think it should be illegal.

 

I grew up in a densely populated urban environment, inhabited mostly by first and second generation Italian immigrants. Some of the questions you pose are not theoretical:

 

Would I live next to a gun store? Yes. In fact, one might argue I have a gun store of sorts in each of my homes. Lol...

Would I live next to a bar? Yes, and did. I lived three doors down from a tavern that sat on the opposite corner of my Catholic church, where my parents were married and I and the rest of my family was Baptized. My grandmother lived in the house next door to mine. My two aunts lived across the street.

Would I live near a dance club? There was a bar-dance club three blocks from my house. It was a clean, upscale establishment, with live musical entertainment every Saturday night, not the seedy strip clubs you find in bad parts of town. Two decent restaurants sat on either side.

Gas station? There was one at the other end of my block and there was a small auto repair shop in the middle of the next block.

Motel/hotel? Since I grew up in an urban environment, motels were not part of the landscape, but hotels were.

 

Your attempt to paint businesses like taverns/bars, gun stores, gas stations, and motels/hotels, in the same light as brothels is a very weak and specious argument that holds no sway. We both know these businesses do not exist on the same social plane as brothels.

 

By the way, strippers don't have sex with patrons. If they do, they have graduated to being prostitutes. It's not a subtle difference.

 

And if you cannot make a distinction between a porn performer, and a prostitute, I suggest you head over to the stroll in the city nearest you and educate yourself. Then make your way to the nearest Salvation Army or Harbor House and take a good, long look at the women they are trying to help. Ask them about what it is like to live on the streets, selling their bodies to any paying john, to support their drug habits, and keep their pimps from beating the crap out them for failing to earn.

 

Lastly, being in an open relationship has nothing in common with prostitution. Literally, nothing. The fact that you attempt to paint swingers with the same brush as prostitutes is likewise a specious and weak argument that holds no sway. And it tells me you have a very shallow understanding of what an open relationship is about.

 

[PJ&Lin 188]

3 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

Lastly, being in an open relationship has nothing in common with prostitution. Literally, nothing. The fact that you attempt to paint swingers with the same brush as prostitutes is likewise a specious and weak argument that holds no sway. And it tells me you have a very shallow understanding of what an open relationship is about.

Your remarks about “brothels” is so out of place. I will repeat that brothels only exist in Nevada and are only in zoned areas, not next to homes, churches, schools or your grandma’s house. A prostitute, male or female, will normally meet a client in a motel or possibly a home. Where are the brothels you are writing about? 
Let’s take the fictitious Prostitute who is visiting a house for sex, how would you know what her intentions are? Just another guest and a child or grandmother would have no idea of anything foul going on. I think a swingers party would be much noisier from my short experiences. 
I have no idea who the young lady is that sparked your response about the horrors of prostitution except from reading her past posts, she seems to have a much higher thinking of what relationships are and is not calling you “shallow”, your words to me. Maybe you are just old and not as open minded as her younger thinking. Is your morality the only proper way? That sounds like a very opinionated position. 

[AndrewandAnn 360]

3 hours ago, PJ&Lin said:

Your remarks about “brothels” is so out of place. I will repeat that brothels only exist in Nevada and are only in zoned areas, not next to homes, churches, schools or your grandma’s house. A prostitute, male or female, will normally meet a client in a motel or possibly a home. Where are the brothels you are writing about? 
Let’s take the fictitious Prostitute who is visiting a house for sex, how would you know what her intentions are? Just another guest and a child or grandmother would have no idea of anything foul going on. I think a swingers party would be much noisier from my short experiences. 
I have no idea who the young lady is that sparked your response about the horrors of prostitution except from reading her past posts, she seems to have a much higher thinking of what relationships are and is not calling you “shallow”, your words to me. Maybe you are just old and not as open minded as her younger thinking. Is your morality the only proper way? That sounds like a very opinionated position. 

"Brothels only exist in Nevada..." LOL.

 

Before you form an opinion, you may care to educate yourself about the subject matter.

 

In 2014, Business Insider ran an expose on the sex trade. The article aggregated and analyzed crime data and other statistics from eight US cities: Miami, Dallas, Washington, D.C., Denver, Kansas City, San Diego, Seattle, and Atlanta. The article was based upon research funded by the Urban Institute. Here's what the article concluded:

 

"Erotic Asian massage parlors and Latino brothels were found in almost every city."

 

The article went on to say prostitution exists in every element of the sex industry, from traditional street prostitutes, to Internet hookers, to strip bars, to escort services. And virtually all of them are tied to some form of crime hierarchy--from low-level pimps to criminal gangs, to mafia/organized crime (Italian, Asian, Russian) to drug cartels.

 

Likewise, the New York Times extensively covered the findings of the Urban Institute's study during the same time frame. It pointed out the undeniable link between the commercial sex trade and an even more grievous and insidious problem of child sex trafficking and human servitude.

 

The notion of the PhD student sleeping with white collar business executives to pay for her Ivy League graduate degree is mythological nonsense.  In the real world, prostitution is the industrialized dehumanization and exploitation of the most vulnerable portion of our population. I want nothing to do with it other than to clean it up as best as society can.

 

[PSULioness 839]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:19 AM, couplers said:

Welcome back!  I missed you!  I hope that all is well.  As a now "relatively" young married woman who started swinging early in our marriage, I identify with you and empathize with your posts.  Please stick around.

Thanks,

Petra

Thank you Petra

Don’t know if I am welcomed back by all the others. Posts like this scare me away. I can handle self absorbed people but ask why I should get worked up by someone who thinks they are the brightest star. Why do I need to argue and have anxiety, I have nothing I need to prove, I just look and things from another side and share. Opinions are just that, there are just too many who have been taking their opinions way too far. 
A nice person just sent a  DM thinking that I stopped posting due to harassment, it wasn’t the primary reason. I have had some personal issues that a bigger influence on my absence. 

[AndrewandAnn 360]

3 hours ago, PSULioness said:

Thank you Petra

Don’t know if I am welcomed back by all the others. Posts like this scare me away. I can handle self absorbed people but ask why I should get worked up by someone who thinks they are the brightest star. Why do I need to argue and have anxiety, I have nothing I need to prove, I just look and things from another side and share. Opinions are just that, there are just too many who have been taking their opinions way too far. 
A nice person just sent a  DM thinking that I stopped posting due to harassment, it wasn’t the primary reason. I have had some personal issues that a bigger influence on my absence. 

I presume some of this is aimed at me. So, I'll be glad to respond:

 

I reviewed my posts and say with certainty that none of them included anything that remotely resembles "harassment". However, since it appears you were somehow (?) caused distress by something (?) I wrote, please allow me to apologize. Causing you, or anyone else, "anxiety" was not my intention with this thread or any other. With that in mind, I hope you will afford me the similar courtesy of not assigning negative motives that are clearly not present.

 

I approach this forum in the following way: It is a public place for free-thinking adults to discuss adult-themed topics. Publishing one's personal statements, opinions, and conclusions carries with it certain realities. One of those realities is that they will be examined by others. During that process, one will almost certainly be exposed to people with differing, sometimes opposing, statements, opinions, and conclusions. Additionally, people have different communication styles. Some people, like me for instance, prefer being coolly objective, and matter-of-fact in their approach. This can be off-putting to others who prefer a more "feeling-based", subjective style.

 

I believe the point of these discussions is to share our statements, opinions, and conclusions with other free-thinking adults with the aim of arriving at a better, or at least fuller, understanding of the issue at hand. Rather than feeling "offended" when being "challenged", we may want to take the approach that someone else's statements, opinions, and conclusions may be better reasoned, and better informed, than one's own. Admittedly, this approach takes a certain amount of intellectual honesty, and detachment from "feeling-based" opinions and conclusions , that some people find difficult to muster.

 

Lastly, on the particular subject of prostitution, the facts are these: Prostitution is connected to a host of social ills including sexual exploitation, drug addiction, physical and emotional abuse, criminal enterprise, the sex trafficking of minors, and human servitude, to name just the obvious ones. I do not consider these to be trivial matters. I will, without hesitation, or apology, push back against the false narrative that prostitution is "just another form of sexual liberation" when the evidence so overwhelmingly, convincingly points to the contrary.

 

Have a good day.

[PeterJ 940]

7 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

I presume some of this is aimed at me. So, I'll be glad to respond:

 

I reviewed my posts and say with certainty that none of them included anything that remotely resembles "harassment". However, since it appears you were somehow (?) caused distress by something (?) I wrote, please allow me to apologize. Causing you, or anyone else, "anxiety" was not my intention with this thread or any other. With that in mind, I hope you will afford me the similar courtesy of not assigning negative motives that are clearly not present.

 

I approach this forum in the following way: It is a public place for free-thinking adults to discuss adult-themed topics. Publishing one's personal statements, opinions, and conclusions carries with it certain realities. One of those realities is that they will be examined by others. During that process, one will almost certainly be exposed to people with differing, sometimes opposing, statements, opinions, and conclusions. Additionally, people have different communication styles. Some people, like me for instance, prefer being coolly objective, and matter-of-fact in their approach. This can be off-putting to others who prefer a more "feeling-based", subjective style.

 

I believe the point of these discussions is to share our statements, opinions, and conclusions with other free-thinking adults with the aim of arriving at a better, or at least fuller, understanding of the issue at hand. Rather than feeling "offended" when being "challenged", we may want to take the approach that someone else's statements, opinions, and conclusions may be better reasoned, and better informed, than one's own. Admittedly, this approach takes a certain amount of intellectual honesty, and detachment from "feeling-based" opinions and conclusions , that some people find difficult to muster.

 

Lastly, on the particular subject of prostitution, the facts are these: Prostitution is connected to a host of social ills including sexual exploitation, drug addiction, physical and emotional abuse, criminal enterprise, the sex trafficking of minors, and human servitude, to name just the obvious ones. I do not consider these to be trivial matters. I will, without hesitation, or apology, push back against the false narrative that prostitution is "just another form of sexual liberation" when the evidence so overwhelmingly, convincingly points to the contrary.

 

Have a good day.

Um, Andrew, im not engaging in sarcasm, but I’m pretty sure the whole thing is aimed at you. 😉

 

On a forum where most members lurk and only a few post, I’m always pleased to see more of the latter. And you are for sure a prolific contributor. My assumption is that you have many fine personal qualities that make you a deeply appreciated friend and highly valued to your loved ones. I’m serious about this. 

 

But I’m amazed (okay, maybe not quite amazed) that you were surprised after reviewing your responses to her that PSU Lioness would find them overbearing. Your post in question almost literally suggests to people that they should just admit you are right and they are wrong, and they should adopt your smarter and better reasoned position. I don’t think your perceive accurately how you come across in a words-only medium. 

 

I won’t speak for anyone else on this board, but I avoid interacting with you. But here’s my feedback. Like many other contributors to this board you are bright and well-informed. But I find the prosecutorial zeal with which you advance your opinions (some of which are perhaps not as fact-based as you seem to think) off-putting. My observation has long been that you don’t simply disagree with others, but you fail to respect their opinions. You often come across as though you can see only two sides to an issue — yours and the wrong one. You don’t discuss, you debate. Actually, it’s not generally a debate, in that your arguments are not more fully developed in response to the other person’s expression of their thoughts, just reiterated. As you have done in the post above, you just restate the same position, but with additional vehemence. Finally, whether you meant it that way or not your closing "Have a good day" comes across to me as aggressive to the point of surliness.

[AndrewandAnn 360]

55 minutes ago, PeterJ said:

Um, Andrew, im not engaging in sarcasm, but I’m pretty sure the whole thing is aimed at you. 😉

 

On a forum where most members lurk and only a few post, I’m always pleased to see more of the latter. And you are for sure a prolific contributor. My assumption is that you have many fine personal qualities that make you a deeply appreciated friend and highly valued to your loved ones. I’m serious about this. 

 

But I’m amazed (okay, maybe not quite amazed) that you were surprised after reviewing your responses to her that PSU Lioness would find them overbearing. Your post in question almost literally suggests to people that they should just admit you are right and they are wrong, and they should adopt your smarter and better reasoned position. I don’t think your perceive accurately how you come across in a words-only medium. 

 

I won’t speak for anyone else on this board, but I avoid interacting with you. But here’s my feedback. Like many other contributors to this board you are bright and well-informed. But I find the prosecutorial zeal with which you advance your opinions (some of which are perhaps not as fact-based as you seem to think) off-putting. My observation has long been that you don’t simply disagree with others, but you fail to respect their opinions. You often come across as though you can see only two sides to an issue — yours and the wrong one. You don’t discuss, you debate. Actually, it’s not generally a debate, in that your arguments are not more fully developed in response to the other person’s expression of their thoughts, just reiterated. As you have done in the post above, you just restate the same position, but with additional vehemence. Finally, whether you meant it that way or not your closing "Have a good day" comes across to me as aggressive to the point of surliness.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Peter.

 

Evidently, your sarcasm meter needs recalibrating. I thought the intent of my opening remarks were rather obvious, even to you 😉

 

Likewise, I generally avoid your responses. And, since we're being frank, and continuing in your genuine spirit of being helpful, I avoid them because I find them poorly reasoned, factually unsupported, and unnecessarily wordy. Rarely do they warrant serious attention. Today, my wife is out of town and I'm rather bored, so I'll make an exception.

 

I must confess, I find it rather humorous how you said you won't speak for anyone else on this board, then went on to do exactly that. Did Lioness lose her roar? Lol. You have a greatly overblown sense of self, my friend. Actually, it's quite charming 🙂

 

If you're offering to be completely honest, Peter, I do have a serious question for you to answer: If I were promoting positions with which you generally agree, instead of those you oppose, would you take offense to my supposed "prosecutorial zeal"? I imagine, if you're being painfully honest, the answer is, No. If I was busy acting as the cheerleading squad, instead of the loyal opposition, I have little doubt you would find me your Internet Hero.

 

Peter, your feelings are yours alone and you only speak for yourself. True, some may agree with you, more or less, and you may find comfort in that. I don't require such comforts. I've reached the station in life when being straight and honest with people is more meaningful to me than being popular or receiving pats on my backside for parroting the agreed upon Talking Points. I prefer to risk someone think I'm a bit overbearing, rather than being afraid to call balls and strikes and deal with the epithets. 

 

Inevitably, when one pushes back against the prevailing winds, they tend to howl.

 

By the way, you may find this difficult to believe, but historically I've received my fair share of unsolicited private communications from those who appreciate the way I articulate my positions and encourage me to continue to do so. Like me, they grow weary of the dystopian world where feelings matter more than facts, and group think is more important than independent thought.

 

Peter, should my posts continue to bother you, I encourage you to continue to ignore them. Otherwise, I suggest you prepare to have your replies examined with the same honestly, wit, and zeal with which you have attempted to examine mine.

 

That seems fair enough, yes?

 

Have a good day 😉

 

[cplnluv1 871]

11 hours ago, PeterJ said:

But I find the prosecutorial zeal with which you advance your opinions (some of which are perhaps not as fact-based as you seem to think) off-putting. My observation has long been that you don’t simply disagree with others, but you fail to respect their opinions.

I am going to agree with this statement. We are here to discuss the pleasures of swinging not to be dismissed as ignorant or be taught any takes on morality. 
 

I have been in contact with Lioness and she surely has not lost her roar. She is a beautiful young lady who has shared her journey from the beginnings with well thought posts that many on here have enjoyed. Does anyone here wonder why a poster suddenly disappeared, what happened to that poster? Was it health, Covid? I feel some posters died over the last few years in the same percentages as the general public. Do posters leave because they quit the lifestyle finding it was not for them. Are there those home life problems that some couples go through in life not having anything to do with the lifestyle? 
Or is it “toxicity” as noted? 
This thread was a question, Would you sell your sex IF it were legal. Simple question, Yes or No, not asking for your opinion on the blight of prostitution on your community. 
I ask why this community has turned into just another divisive way to push your thoughts on everyone. 
Peter you are correct in my opinion, though you do know what they say about opinions.

 

To answer the original post, Alan and I have accepted dinners from those we have met. We are not involved in sex trafficking, drugs, or running a brothel next to your grandmother. We have met others at our home for sex, maybe we are a brothel in someone’s opinion. 

[PJ&Lin 188]

5 hours ago, cplnluv1 said:

Alan and I have accepted dinners from those we have met

Lin had dinner and drinks with her friends that picked up the check, is she a prostitute or would it be different if she put two twenties on the table and they have it back would that make a difference?

[PSULioness 839]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:48 PM, AndrewandAnn said:

Lastly, on the particular subject of prostitution, the facts are these: Prostitution is connected to a host of social ills including sexual exploitation, drug addiction, physical and emotional abuse, criminal enterprise, the sex trafficking of minors, and human servitude, to name just the obvious ones.

You listed all the evils of prostitution but you miss the basic premise of the original poster, would you sell your sex. No exploitation, no trafficking, no drug addiction, no underage sex, no servitude, just sex by a willing adult for cash. 
You are thinking in antiquated ways, many of the ills of your generation have now become mainstream and accepted. How many of your listed social ills can be connected to liquor and the prohibition, gambling which is now not only illegal but promoted by the sports that have in the past fought to prohibit, and cannabis sales that have now been legalized in many states, all had been connected to organized crime and other so called social ills. Have you forgotten that sex outside of marriage was illegal, sodomy was illegal, interracial marriage was illegal, homosexuality was illegal. 
What we have found is that those who force their own opinions on others do so because are lacking in other parts of their lives. It is a person’s insecurities that make bullies. It is comparable to the man who has to have a big car to make up for what they lack in other departments. 
Have a good day Andrew. 
ROAR!!!!

[MidwestHoneys 356]

I have been paid for sex. Honey has been paid to have sex. We were paid not by the person we had sex with, we were paid by a gentleman who likes to watch sex. Neither Honey or I have been forced to do this and the last time we talked about the sex we are having we are both enjoying the sex. To the truth we have had sex with those same people at home with no money exchanged. 

[MidLifeFun 147]

I remember a joke I heard years ago about a couple who would put a quarter in a jar every time they had sex the first five years of marriage and remove a dollar every time after the five years. Ten years later they still had a jar of coins. 
We tried something different, I put ten dollars in every time we had sex and she could take twenty out when she gave me a full blow job. Happily I keep replenishing the bank. 

[NoAngels 333]

Mrs. Angel has been gifted not paid. She has had a number of affairs where men have given her gifts as part of the relationship. Some men don’t understand that she isn’t a prostitute and leave her an envelope, some have given her more traditional gifts like jewelry. 
The reason I went to this post has to do with a recent gift, a week in a timeshare with me not with him. He knows that I know about the affair they are having and offered her his timeshare to go away with me. 

[couplers 4,615]

3 hours ago, generouswife said:

I've taken money a few times.

Before or after the event?  It makes a difference in some people's minds.  Not that one is better than the other, just a different dynamic. 

 

BTW, one woman, part of a married vanilla couple, told me that she demands significant money from her husband before sex.  It's his kink and she wants the money. 

[Anon321 521]

She is not going to work at a brothel and sell her body for cash but she certainly knows how to use sex to get what she wants.  She has used it to barter for other services before.  She also told me that for over a month straight her boss called her into his office for a blowjob every day.  I don't think she was too surprised when she got a raise.  You can call it selling sex or whatever you want

[PeterJ 940]

13 hours ago, generouswife said:

I've taken money a few times.

GW, I’m personally not interested in paying money for sex, though I strongly support — with the usual caveats about trafficking and other abuses — the rights of sex workers to practice their business. That said, I shudder inwardly at the thought of sex workers having to service clients they disdain or otherwise find repugnant because they (perhsos desperately need tge money. I just find that sad.

 

But I look at your situation differently. The men you’ve taken money from your were likely going to fuck anyway. In your case, I think it’s kinda empowering. "Here’s a guy I would fuck just for the fun of it and he’s offering me money for the privilege of fulfilling my desires." I’m wondering if you ever felt that way in these cases?