How will we feel after we swing?

[trinigemini 15]

I am new to this whole thing. Never really swung before. FH is definitely into it and has done it before. I'm not sure how I will handle certain things and was hoping to get some incite. One of the things I've been thinking about recently is what happens after the swing. I mean how can I kiss my husband knowing he was just kissing another woman or even worse eating her out? (I must tell you that in the past I have refuse to even consider rekindling relationships with someone because they kissed another woman after we broke up....just because I didn't think I would be able to deal with it.) And how am I suppossed to feel knowing my husband was just intimate with someone else? Also how can I feel attractive knowing that I'm not enough for him and that he finds other women attractive enough to fuck? (I always thought that once you find that special someone you don't need anyone else.....I have no problems with him looking at other women but I thought he should only want to sleep with me.) How can he stand to see me fucking other men? Do I mean nothing to him? I want to know how other couples have handled these issues because to me they seem like major issues that could destroy our new marriage. And should I even go through with the wedding knowing that even if we never swing it's what he wants to do? He said we never have to swing If I dont want to ...but should I prevent him from being happy?

[aubbiet 15]

If you are this uncomfortable with it now... You probably never will be comfortable with it. I'd say talk to him and let him know that you don't want to do this. Swinging should be for both partners not just the enjoyment of one. How long before you actually get married?

[michelle101 15]

If you are this uncomfortable with it now... You probably never will be comfortable with it. I'd say talk to him and let him know that you don't want to do this. Swinging should be for both partners not just the enjoyment of one. How long before you actually get married?

 

 

 

I agree.. Most of the things you just mentioned being uncomfortable with, are things that turned me on right from the start. Seeing him kiss another woman, or kissing me after ( no matter where he's been) is a big turn on for me. I think you should tell him you don't want anything to do with it, until a time comes, if ever, that you are interested.

[Gladiola4u 16]

I have to agree that if you feel this way now than swinging is not for you. Talk to him and let him know all the things you have in mind and how you feel about them. To me, it's a big turn on to see my husband go down on another woman, to fuck her and do all the thingg to her that he does to me and I enjoy so much that I can't wait to see it again.

If you are not sure about it, you have LOTS of talking to do and LOTS of thinking to make sure it is what is good for the both of you.

Good luck!

[trinigemini 15]

I think I have to agree with you all....I always thought swinging would be something I would be into...I even used to joke with my fuck buddies that if I ever got married the guy would have to be into swinging. I can't believe I no longer think I can handle it. I also believe it all stems from my own insecurities. Do you think it could be that in general I dont get along well with other women so the thought of allowing one into the most intimate of my moments is unnerving? Allmy closest friends have always been men and even though I have close girlfriends...they tend to act more like guys. My FH has alot of women friends and they all seem so needy and winey to me...always calling him up crying and complaining....puts me off women even more. I have no problem introducing another guy into the picture though....I know its selfish and I would never expect FH to allow me that pleasure while denying him his. Oh we are getting married MArch 3rd, 2007. I know its soon. The only reason I have not let this totally freak me out is because he says we never have to do it....and I am the one who brings it up and brought it up recently as we were looking for honeymoon spots. (I suggested hedonism.....then started freaking when he was actually considering it.) At the same time I got totally turned on that night when we were having sex and he was talking about doing a threesome. I think I am just moving too fast...its my nature...I tend to overthink and overanalyze things way too much way too fast. As soon as a thought pops into my head I automatically take it to the final point and usually the worst possible scenario.

[intuition897 2,179]

Welcome to the board trini. I get the feeling you probably won't be staying long, though, from the tone of your post. Not that we don't want you here! I just get the feeling that this whole swinging thing might not be your bag...baby.

 

I am new to this whole thing. Never really swung before. FH is definitely into it and has done it before.

I'd be interested to know how much experience he's had with it, and in what capacity. As a single guy? Did he have a swing partner? It makes some difference.

 

I mean how can I kiss my husband knowing he was just kissing another woman or even worse eating her out? (I must tell you that in the past I have refuse to even consider rekindling relationships with someone because they kissed another woman after we broke up....just because I didn't think I would be able to deal with it.) And how am I suppossed to feel knowing my husband was just intimate with someone else?

Whoah. Holy crap. This is a serious obstacle, and it's one that you need to resolve in your own mind. I can tell you why I don't think it's a big deal, but it doesn't do you a damn bit of good if you don't believe it in your heart of hearts. It sounds to me like you're confusing love and sex, which has about a 99% rate of ocurrence in newbies. Every swinger needs to deal with this very real issue. What are your beliefs about love and sex? Is sex the ultimate expression of love? Can sex be good without love? Can love exist without sex? What does it mean when you are attracted to others? Does it mean anything at all? Should it matter?

 

My husband and I have done full swap both in the same room and also in separate rooms with our swing partners. After our friends went home, I couldn't keep my hands off him and vice versa. I would kiss him with the scent of this other woman on his lips, and with her perfume on his clothes and her lipstick on his cheek, and maybe a fresh bite mark on his shoulder...and I couldn't get enough of it. He was just so...alive! Alive and real. He was sexy. What more proof did I need? It was all over him! Other women were turned on by him, obviously, which turned me on to him all the more.

 

The secret is that I just have no question about what he thinks or feels about me. He has made me understand that these other women, while very sexy, just don't have anything that he would ever want to leave me for. They can't offer him anything more than some good sex. I can offer him that, too, and a lot more.

 

Also how can I feel attractive knowing that I'm not enough for him and that he finds other women attractive enough to fuck? (I always thought that once you find that special someone you don't need anyone else.....I have no problems with him looking at other women but I thought he should only want to sleep with me.)

You thought wrong. Welcome to reality. He IS attracted to other women, and he probably DOES fantasize about screwing them. Like, ankles-over-the-ears-screaming-like-a-banshee screwing them. And he wouuld to enjoy it. If you can't put that image in your head without your heart breaking, DO NOT get into swinging. Swinging is recreational sex. If you hold sex as a sacred bond between you, swinging is NOT for you.

 

It sounds like you got fed that fairy tale about some handsome prince sweeping you off your feet and how you would love one another so much that the attraction to others would just disappear. Well guess what? A wedding band on your finger and some pretty words don't erase your nature, and it's your nature to be a sexual person. And his, too. Some people do choose to express their love by remaining monogamous because it's less complicated and it a conscious choice they have made in the best interest of their marriage. We choose responsible non-monogamy as an expression of our love, and it has been wonderful for our marriage. It's just a matter of what is right for you both as a couple.

 

How can he stand to see me fucking other men? Do I mean nothing to him?

You sound just like me several years ago. I had these same ideas about love, sex and marriage (and now look at me ). I had a tough time getting over the thought that he valued me so little that he could pass me around like a chunk of meat to other men he barely knew. I felt that this was a great deal to ask of me, to ask me to degrade and defile myself just so he could fulfil some selfish fantasy. I mean, really!? What the hell was I anyway? Some blow-up dolly?? I was hurt and angry. I am NOT some fucking TOY!

 

After a long time of thinking this and never really telling him how I felt about it (more about communication skills in a second...) we finally cleared the air. He was surprised to know that I felt that way. He finally explained it to me. He wasn't asking something of me; he was giving me a gift! He was trying to find a polite and inoffensive way to return my wedding gift to me: my sexuality. This was him telling me that he didn't want me to cut off a piece of myself like a grisly sacrifice. He loved me too much to ask that of me. He fell in love with all of me, and that included my sexual vitality. He loved my flirtiness and adventurousness. My gift to him was to kill that for him so no other man would ever have it. The trouble was that he would never see it again either. Not really. Just like you don't appreciate the sun without a little rain, when you take away the means for me to prove that no other man can have that one part of me that is reserved just for him - my heart - my marriage vows lose their meaning. So this is our marriage vows in action. When I have sex with another man, that's me saying, "This other man can borrow my body, and he can do nice things to it, and I can enjoy his company...but he is not you, and I love you. This other man will never have this part of me that you have so completely in the palm of your hand. And I love you and thank you so much for giving me the chance to prove this to you."

 

I want to know how other couples have handled these issues because to me they seem like major issues that could destroy our new marriage.

I'll tell you a secret. These "issues" are not outside of yourselves. They are only as big as you want to make them. If you believe that his wanting other women is a big deal, then it is, and it will end your relationship...because you allowed it to. The other option is to be realistic about it and accept that he will still be attracted to other women...but it's up to you to decide whether that means anything to your relationship or not. Don't listen to others outside of your relationship telling you that it "should" matter. Does it matter to you? The truth may surprise you. Then again, it might not.

 

And should I even go through with the wedding knowing that even if we never swing it's what he wants to do? He said we never have to swing If I dont want to ...but should I prevent him from being happy?

Again, this is up to you. It's just my opinion, but it seems to me that you're standing in your own way. You've decided that it is unacceptable that any man of yours would ever want someone else (because that would mean you're "not enough", right?). So...rethink that line of thinking. How willing are you to change your mind? I think I get it. By marrying him but never swinging, you feel he is essentially "settling for less" with you. This would make you feel degraded, and that's never good. If that's what you're thinking, then I applaud your not getting married until that's sorted out. That shows some serious integrity. Never let go of that because if you ever DO decide to swing, you'll need that kind of integrity.

 

I would suggest that you let your fiance read what you've written. Have you discussed any of this with him? Does he realize you feel this way? Degraded? Second best? Unloved? If he loves you, knowing you feel this way will just make him come undone. He'll want to set you straight, and tell you, show you, just how much he loves and respects you. Give him that opportunity. Tell him how you feel.

 

I hope this helps some.

[trinigemini 15]

Thank You so Much....Intuition you have given me alot to think about. And you can be sure I will. I have tried speaking to FH about this stuff but he seems to get annoyed by the questions and defensive. Its kind of why I turned here. I think one of my problems is that i don't truly believe that he loves me. I have other men In my life that truly do love me and I know they do because I have been with them for many many years. I think with FH things moved so fast that i no longer know what to believe. We've known each other for a little more than a year. We actually met after hurricane wilma. We had been talking online for about 5 months and I finally had time to meet him. He was the most romantic man I've ever met......but now I find myself asking how much of what he did for me he did for other women, I fell in love with the romance and I'm just afraid that seeing himbe like that with other women will just take that away from me. For instance he says I love you to so many people that when he says it to me it just does not mean much. It means more when he does sweet things....but does the meaning diminish knowing hes done them for others and its just his way....I know these are only questions that I can answer...but to be honest posting here has helped me to access some things i dont think I would have otherwise. I guess i should also say that I have grown up in a very dysfunctional family and have always had a problem with "LOVE". I've treated men like toys using them when i see fit and then disregarding them without a thought. Maybe this whole thing is payback ....bad Karma....my insecurities I mean ...not swinging is bad. i do think we will get into it one day. I just think I need to truly feel he loves me first. So I dont think I will disappear from this board as has been suggested. Most of my sexual fantasies involve more than one person.....so I dont think I can say for sure that swinging will neve be my thing. I just think I personally have issues that have to be dealt with.

[intuition897 2,179]

We all have our demons, trini. Sounds like you've found out the names of yours. And it sounds like maybe swinging could be something in your future. Your distant future perhaps, but the potential is there. It's just a matter of sorting out some stuff first. It sounds like you understand the importance of having your head in the right place when it comes to swinging.

 

I don't know about bad karma when it comes to insecurities, because I just feel that insecurities are a matter of - quite simply - not knowing any different. Now if you were being a real asshole about something and you knew it and you did it anyway...well then I guess you can expect karma to bite you in the ass for that. But if it's because of fear, well then it's just a matter of educating yourself and getting things straight in your head.

 

Are you a love junkie? My mother-in-law is. She loves the whirlwind romance and the dopamine high you get when love is fresh and new. Then she gets bored with her men and starts looking for excuses to dump them...because the high has worn off. I've lost track of the number of times she's been married. This is a real problem for some folks because they are unable to get beyond that "settling in" phase to where they develop the really good stuff: genuine love and attachment. Real love is seeing someone with the stomach flu, puking into a toilet at 3 AM...and holding her hair back for her. It's getting pissed off because he left the lid off the damn toothpaste again. It's bills and kids and messy houses and meddling in-laws and jobs that suck...and the real love is where you stand together in the middle of this mess "resting" in each other. You know. Putting your head against that spot on his chest (your spot), and him with his lips kissing your hair. And you stand there like that for even just a few moments. And you're rested and ready to take the bullshit of life on again. It's knowing every dirty rotten thing about your partner and not just loving them in spite of it...but loving them FOR it. You don't care what they can do for you; you just want to do everything for them. You stop caring about what happens to your own life, and you only want what is best for him. Infatuation gives you a buzz like a drinking a couple of pots of coffee. Amps you up, gives you a euphoric energy, and yes, increases your stress level...but you like it. Love makes you feel like a still, quiet lake. At peace finally. Finally things are clear to you, and you get a happiness - a contentment - that you just can't explain to those who have never felt it themselves.

 

I sure hope you stick around. It would be nice if FH would come and read some of this thread, too. I'm a little concerned that he doesn't want to communicate about this. That's a big red flag for me. Be sure to let him know that you can't build a marriage on uncertainty...and he's not exactly helping matters out in that respect.

[The_Phoenyxes 15]

He fell in love with all of me, and that included my sexual vitality. He loved my flirtiness and adventurousness. My gift to him was to kill that for him so no other man would ever have it. The trouble was that he would never see it again either. Not really. Just like you don't appreciate the sun without a little rain, when you take away the means for me to prove that no other man can have that one part of me that is reserved just for him - my heart - my marriage vows lose their meaning. So this is our marriage vows in action. When I have sex with another man, that's me saying, "This other man can borrow my body, and he can do nice things to it, and I can enjoy his company...but he is not you, and I love you. This other man will never have this part of me that you have so completely in the palm of your hand. And I love you and thank you so much for giving me the chance to prove this to you."

 

Mr. Bird and myslef read that and both agreed that it is a) true and b) one of the most beautiful things we have read in reguards to swining. Very well put Intuition.

[daisy girl 34]

Swinging is not for everyone and that's ok. It sounds like you have lots of concerns that are very valid for you. Please do not feel compelled to do something just because your SO is into it. You don't have to swing.

[Imalookin 15]

Awesome posts Intuition. I need to share this thread with my husband when we get home tonight. I think the response will be "Wow! This is so true and cuts to the core of the whole experience."

[wyandly 15]

How can he stand to see me fucking other men?

There are a lot of posts on this board where guys answer this question, often with lively discriptions

 

 

I've treated men like toys using them when i see fit and then disregarding them without a thought.

True or not, you are being hard on yourself for what you are feeling.

These past experiences are just that: past experiences. Did they work for you? If given the same situation, would you do it again? Use them to help you decide what you are going to do now.

 

 

I also believe it all stems from my own insecurities.

I think you have hit the nail on the head... believe me, I'm generally insucure my self, thats how I how know, like the saying goes; "it takes one to know one".

I dont think I could say it better than Intuit did, you just need to decide if you are totally on board with this relationship, even with the specter of swinging in the background. And yes, I remember you saying that is part of why you started this thread, so I will do my best to answer...

 

 

All my closest friends have always been men....My FH has alot of women friends

Look, by the sound of it, both of you could have any person you really want for a life partner, right? So I will ask you what I asked myself many years ago: Of all the people you could have, do you still choose your FH? Like Intuit has been saying, only you can answer that question. Just because you have misused, or walked away from, relationships in the past, dosn't mean you have to do the same with this one. You question your value to your husband-to-be, and you say girls come to him all the time, but the fact is he still chooses you for his life partner. Whats that say about your value to him?

 

As for the swinging, if you read this forum for a while, you will realize that its like Intuit said, the issues are what you make of it. Maybe this will help, and maybe not, but here's an analogy I once came up with to help me navigate the feelings of love and intimacy as they are connected to sexual expresion/experience. Suppose that 'flowers' = 'sexual ectasy'. There are two types of people, those that like gettting flowers, and those that like having flowers. Thats to say, even though both enjoy flowers very much, some believe getting flowers is a prerequisit to having them and enjoying them, and place value on the receiving, or use the act of recieving to judge the people involved in giving them flowers. But the others dont care, as long as they accept those giving them the flowers, it dosn't matter who is doing the giving. For them its all about the 'having': either they like what they have, or they dont. Its not that they dont love those giving them flower; its that they love the givers all the more for making sure they have flowers to enjoy. I hope you have followed this. My wife used to be the type that liked "getting flowers", but then she got older, her drive perked up, and now she likes "having flowers". And even though we aren't swingers, sex has since improved quite a bit, with alot of the old jealousy fading away. Im bringing all this up becuase it may turn out that way for you.

 

I also get the feeling from you posts that things are going kind of fast for you. I dont know what to say about this. Maybe some one else will have some useful advice. But I'm glad to hear that you are at trying to think carefully about it.

... My 2 cents....

 

I wish you the best!

[iapr 24]

I have not read any of the other posts so that I can keep my thoughts original but I am sure they have given you lots of good insight.

 

My thoughts are do not do this and do not let him talk you into it. You are no where near a point in your relationship where swinging is even an option. Swinging is not for everyone and even of the couples who are active swingers many if not darn near all were in traditional monogamous marriages for many years and built up a very high degree of trust and intimacy before they even came up with the idea of swinging.

 

You are not there and your statement of that you are not even sure if he loves you gives me reason to question if this is even the right guy for you to be dating let alone swinging with. I really think you need to do some serious self evaluation and as well as some hard indepth evaluation of your relationship and not give another moments thought as to swinging.

 

I can be wrong of course but I think if you two try to bring another person in to the mix it will blow up in your faces very fast and very badly. Show him the posts you made as well as the responses you have gotten and if he tells you that you and everyone else are full of crap then he is just looking out for himself and wanting to fuck other chicks with your permission and is not looking out for your feelings and your best interest and that is the most sure-fire recipe for disaster in swinging that there is.

[trinigemini 15]

I guess I may have given some of you the wrong idea of my FH. He is not pushing swinging. I mean it is something that he has done in the past and would do again....but in no way is he forcing me to do it. I guess this all just came up recently when we were looking at honeymoon places....I suggested hedonism....I was my idea.....at the time it seemed likea great one...I've always loved the idea of swinging and just assumed thaT i would be Alright with it. However it was after he started thinking about it too that I got squemish....to me swinging was all good in my head when he was all mine with people added who were also just into me.....but the thought of him with anyone else drives me crazy....Now i know its not fair...but it the way I am feeling now.....FH has consistently said that swinging is not something that we need to do.......so this whole thing is really just about me...I guess I am tryingto understand myself.....how can I be OK with swinging or the idea of it for such a long time,.....and now that I have found a guy who is willing to do so let it drive me crazy with jelaousy...its true i have never loved anyone the way I love FH and I think I'm scared of losing him...whereas with other men I didnt really care If i lost them in the process. FH is a great man and he does love me.....most days I know this.....however I seem to be very Insecure and need reassurance all the time.....now to show how ridiculous I am being ...because I am......FH is the kind of guy who makes me dinner every night, and before he sits pulls out my chair, places my napkin on my lap and kisses me.......EVERY TIME. He also tries his best to fullfill my every need....I'm in school and last summer he paid for my tuition (wasnt covered by my scholarship or financial aid), he takes me on vacations (our fourth date was to the bahamas) He loves my dog as much as I do and treats her so wonderfully(very big deal to me), he entertains my friends and all in all is just a fabulous man,very sweet and thoughtful) NO the problem in our relationship is ALL me. I dontwant him treating anyone else the way he treats me....it would make it not special anymore. I am not used to this....or the feelings I am having....FH tries his best to make me happy. I am on this board to try and figure outmy own malfunctions so that hopefully oneday I will get over my insecurities and be able to fulfill FH fantasy without breaking my heart. I've been reading forums and have received from very good advice myself.....I just dont know that it will ever turn me on to see the man of my dreams fuck another woman.....I may get to the point where it does not kill me....but enjoy it I doubt very much.

[iapr 24]

Welcome to the board trini. I get the feeling you probably won't be staying long, though, from the tone of your post. Not that we don't want you here! I just get the feeling that this whole swinging thing might not be your bag...baby.

 

 

I'd be interested to know how much experience he's had with it, and in what capacity. As a single guy? Did he have a swing partner? It makes some difference.

 

 

Whoah. Holy crap. This is a serious obstacle, and it's one that you need to resolve in your own mind. I can tell you why I don't think it's a big deal, but it doesn't do you a damn bit of good if you don't believe it in your heart of hearts. It sounds to me like you're confusing love and sex, which has about a 99% rate of ocurrence in newbies. Every swinger needs to deal with this very real issue. What are your beliefs about love and sex? Is sex the ultimate expression of love? Can sex be good without love? Can love exist without sex? What does it mean when you are attracted to others? Does it mean anything at all? Should it matter?

 

My husband and I have done full swap both in the same room and also in separate rooms with our swing partners. After our friends went home, I couldn't keep my hands off him and vice versa. I would kiss him with the scent of this other woman on his lips, and with her perfume on his clothes and her lipstick on his cheek, and maybe a fresh bite mark on his shoulder...and I couldn't get enough of it. He was just so...alive! Alive and real. He was sexy. What more proof did I need? It was all over him! Other women were turned on by him, obviously, which turned me on to him all the more.

 

The secret is that I just have no question about what he thinks or feels about me. He has made me understand that these other women, while very sexy, just don't have anything that he would ever want to leave me for. They can't offer him anything more than some good sex. I can offer him that, too, and a lot more.

 

 

You thought wrong. Welcome to reality. He IS attracted to other women, and he probably DOES fantasize about screwing them. Like, ankles-over-the-ears-screaming-like-a-banshee screwing them. And he wouuld to enjoy it. If you can't put that image in your head without your heart breaking, DO NOT get into swinging. Swinging is recreational sex. If you hold sex as a sacred bond between you, swinging is NOT for you.

 

It sounds like you got fed that fairy tale about some handsome prince sweeping you off your feet and how you would love one another so much that the attraction to others would just disappear. Well guess what? A wedding band on your finger and some pretty words don't erase your nature, and it's your nature to be a sexual person. And his, too. Some people do choose to express their love by remaining monogamous because it's less complicated and it a conscious choice they have made in the best interest of their marriage. We choose responsible non-monogamy as an expression of our love, and it has been wonderful for our marriage. It's just a matter of what is right for you both as a couple.

 

 

You sound just like me several years ago. I had these same ideas about love, sex and marriage (and now look at me ). I had a tough time getting over the thought that he valued me so little that he could pass me around like a chunk of meat to other men he barely knew. I felt that this was a great deal to ask of me, to ask me to degrade and defile myself just so he could fulfil some selfish fantasy. I mean, really!? What the hell was I anyway? Some blow-up dolly?? I was hurt and angry. I am NOT some fucking TOY!

 

After a long time of thinking this and never really telling him how I felt about it (more about communication skills in a second...) we finally cleared the air. He was surprised to know that I felt that way. He finally explained it to me. He wasn't asking something of me; he was giving me a gift! He was trying to find a polite and inoffensive way to return my wedding gift to me: my sexuality. This was him telling me that he didn't want me to cut off a piece of myself like a grisly sacrifice. He loved me too much to ask that of me. He fell in love with all of me, and that included my sexual vitality. He loved my flirtiness and adventurousness. My gift to him was to kill that for him so no other man would ever have it. The trouble was that he would never see it again either. Not really. Just like you don't appreciate the sun without a little rain, when you take away the means for me to prove that no other man can have that one part of me that is reserved just for him - my heart - my marriage vows lose their meaning. So this is our marriage vows in action. When I have sex with another man, that's me saying, "This other man can borrow my body, and he can do nice things to it, and I can enjoy his company...but he is not you, and I love you. This other man will never have this part of me that you have so completely in the palm of your hand. And I love you and thank you so much for giving me the chance to prove this to you."

 

 

I'll tell you a secret. These "issues" are not outside of yourselves. They are only as big as you want to make them. If you believe that his wanting other women is a big deal, then it is, and it will end your relationship...because you allowed it to. The other option is to be realistic about it and accept that he will still be attracted to other women...but it's up to you to decide whether that means anything to your relationship or not. Don't listen to others outside of your relationship telling you that it "should" matter. Does it matter to you? The truth may surprise you. Then again, it might not.

 

 

Again, this is up to you. It's just my opinion, but it seems to me that you're standing in your own way. You've decided that it is unacceptable that any man of yours would ever want someone else (because that would mean you're "not enough", right?). So...rethink that line of thinking. How willing are you to change your mind? I think I get it. By marrying him but never swinging, you feel he is essentially "settling for less" with you. This would make you feel degraded, and that's never good. If that's what you're thinking, then I applaud your not getting married until that's sorted out. That shows some serious integrity. Never let go of that because if you ever DO decide to swing, you'll need that kind of integrity.

 

I would suggest that you let your fiance read what you've written. Have you discussed any of this with him? Does he realize you feel this way? Degraded? Second best? Unloved? If he loves you, knowing you feel this way will just make him come undone. He'll want to set you straight, and tell you, show you, just how much he loves and respects you. Give him that opportunity. Tell him how you feel.

 

I hope this helps some.

 

 

 

Wow, I am just blown away by the thoughtfullness and depth of this post. The wisdom and clarity of this response is right on the money in many regards except for one thing....the intended recipient of it. I think this would be wonderfull advice for someone who is interested in swinging and has a fundamentally healthy and nurturing relationship but who just has some jitters about it because they have been raised to believe that traditional monogamous marriage is the end-all be-all of sexual expression.

 

While I think every word of intuitions advice is accurate and wonderfull I believe that the original poster is not in a position to digest and assimilate it for what it's inherent value is worth.

 

I think Trinigemini's core beliefs and values are such that she needs to pursue a healthy and supportive one-on-one traditonal relationship rather than get into swinging relationship with a man whose intent from the very beginning is to have a swinging marriage. Trinigemini herself has explained that she has a lot of baggage and old issues from the past that have left her with many challenges with healthy relationships

 

I think this wonderfull post from intuition to trinigemini is like a areospace engineer trying to explain jet propulsion and areodynamics to someone with a learners permit who is starting to learn how to drive a car.

[trinigemini 15]

Intuitions post did not go over my head....while in my current relationship I am scared of swinging it has not always been so...I have fuck buddies who I did not care were fucking other women. I can am fully capable of understanding intuition. While I agree with the post which say I should not do swinging right now I dont think that most of the advice I received is beyond me. And I definitly have to get over the whole monogamous thing but I agree that it will take time for me to trust my FH that he does love me and that the women he fucks ae just that ...fuck toys.....no more important to him than a dildo is to me. I have no intention and never did about having swinging friends.....it would be more just casual sex....no attachments no phone numbers exchanged.....nothing but sex and then goodbyes.

[bill&sabrina 22]

Why don't people pay attention to what others say? This lady has repeatedly said her SO isn't pressuring her at all. Are we as a society so caught up in an anti male attitude, we refuse to see them us anything but sex starved cavemen?

 

Bill

[intuition897 2,179]

Thanks iapr...I think.

 

its true i have never loved anyone the way I love FH and I think I'm scared of losing him...whereas with other men I didnt really care If i lost them in the process.

Well. That just about sums it up. When you're swinging, eventually you find yourself looking over the edge of the chasm and being told by your partner that you won't fall because he built an invisible bridge. "Do you trust me?" he says. The benefits of finding your feet on that invisible bridge are phenomenal, but they are phenomenal because of the very real danger that your husband has saved you from by being trustworthy. I guess your conversation with him would consist of you looking him dead in the eye and telling him exactly what it is he's is asking you to risk by allowing him to have sex with other women. Is he able to do that without hurting you? Because if you love him as much as you seem to, it won't just hurt...it'll damn near kill you if he - oops! - "accidentally" breaks the rules, or has a quickie behind your back, or allows an emotional connection to his partner interfere with your relationship, etc. If he IS able to handle it, it's like him stepping out onto the invisible bridge himself, walking around on it calmly, maybe jumping up and down a few times to show you just how sturdy it is. "See?" he says, "I wouldn't do anything to hurt you. This is just fun. Kick off your shoes and come on out."

 

FH is a great man and he does love me.....most days I know this.....however I seem to be very Insecure and need reassurance all the time.....now to show how ridiculous I am being ...because I am......FH is the kind of guy who makes me dinner every night, and before he sits pulls out my chair, places my napkin on my lap and kisses me.......EVERY TIME. He also tries his best to fullfill my every need....I'm in school and last summer he paid for my tuition (wasnt covered by my scholarship or financial aid), he takes me on vacations (our fourth date was to the bahamas) He loves my dog as much as I do and treats her so wonderfully(very big deal to me), he entertains my friends and all in all is just a fabulous man,very sweet and thoughtful) NO the problem in our relationship is ALL me. I dontwant him treating anyone else the way he treats me....it would make it not special anymore.

So...are your feelings for him limited to what he does FOR you? I don't mean to sound at all bitchy or anything (which that might, because I can't express it the right way over the internet). I guess, to rephrase that, are you with him because the laundry list of things he does for you somehow proves to you how much he loves you? What if were unable to do any of those things? How would you know he loved you? When you find that out, you'll probably find out what it is about your relationship that makes it unique and untouchable by anyone outside of it. This has nothing to do with swinging. This is something that every single couple should look for. If they found this untouchable uniqueness, there would be SOOO many fewer divorces and break-ups because until you figure that out, you have every reason to feel insecure; after all, if all that holds you together is something that every other woman on the planet could offer him, you do have something to worry about. And for him, lots of other men could pull out your chair for you, lay a napkin on your lap and kiss you before every meal. It's not the act, though, is it? It's the fact that he loves you enough to do that at dinner every night. So if he did that for a female guest that he barely knew, does that mean that he loves her the same way he loves you? I seriously doubt it. He's just being the courteous gentleman he is, and he wants his guest to feel good, too. And I'm sure she'd love it! But when he's kissed her on the cheek and bid her good night - thanks for coming to dinner, see you again soon! - and he then serves you dessert...you suddenly get it! With her, there was no communication. Nothing of importance was said with that act. But with you, you feel the love in his actions. And the unspoken message is: "I can't feel this way with any other woman but you." Wow. That is huge.

[wyandly 15]

You go Intiution!

I wish I could could explain it as well as you did, Intuition, but i cant at the moment, so I wont. All I can add is this: Trini, I've been together with my wife and insecure through much of it, and we are not swingers; we consider it optional and not for us, and yet we are still happy together... So I'm telling you from experience that what Intuit is saying is rock solid advice, and goes right to issues you have raised.

[trinigemini 15]

Intuit I dont get the feel that you are bitchy at all. And this forum has put a few things in perspective for meand given memuch to think about. You asked if he did the whole napkin thing with another woman If I feel it would diminsh the way I think he feels about me......and I have to say yes......I mean the things he does for me are not in themselves important.....but it is the reason behind why he does them that is. So for instance I know when he does the napkin thing its to make me feel special and cared for....so YES it for me it would diminish its meaning...(I told you I am getting crazy) If he does it for every woman that means he wants them all to feel special and cared for....so what makes me different from them? And getting emotionally attached to someone we swing with would probably be the worst thing he could possible do. ANd its a real concern cause he is super friendly to eveeryone....he even invited a photographer that came over just to take soem quick pics of him to come back and hang out sometime.....he makes connections to everyone and I tend to be more antisocial.....before him i was quite content to just be around my dog all day and never let anyone to far in.....I have friends dont get me wrong but I am not the clingy type...at least not usually....I dont call them as soon as I have a problem and start whining....I just have ALOT to get over before we even go near swinging....although neither of us are adverse to the idea of having sex with each other in front of other people.

[iapr 24]

Intuitions post did not go over my head....while in my current relationship I am scared of swinging it has not always been so...I have fuck buddies who I did not care were fucking other women. I can am fully capable of understanding intuition. While I agree with the post which say I should not do swinging right now I dont think that most of the advice I received is beyond me. And I definitly have to get over the whole monogamous thing but I agree that it will take time for me to trust my FH that he does love me and that the women he fucks ae just that ...fuck toys.....no more important to him than a dildo is to me. I have no intention and never did about having swinging friends.....it would be more just casual sex....no attachments no phone numbers exchanged.....nothing but sex and then goodbyes.

 

 

 

I sure did not mean to imply you were dumb or anything like that or that you are emotionally immature and incapable of understanding what people are trying to tell you. But I still believe the advice she was giving, while accurate and very well said, would be much better intended for someone who is in a state that is fundamentally more agreeable to a swinging lifestyle. In fact this post you made here proves my point even more (at least to me maybe not to some of the other posters)

 

When you say "I need to get over the monogamous thing..." for some reason just sets off alarms for me. I do not see monogamy as something that someone should have to "get over." It is totally normal and natural for a young woman to want to be in a stable monogamous relationship and for many people it is through monogamy that we develop the intimacy and trust that healthy and happy swinging needs in order to flourish.

 

If you have been with a spouse for 10-15-20 years in a monogamous relationship and they have never strayed and never given you cause to question their love for you or their devotion to the marriage then you have a good platform for which to explore nonmonogamy.

 

The reason I do not think you are in a state to fully assimilate some of the info you have been given is that you have repeated stated that you at times queston his love for you and your ability to accept a nonmonogamous relationship.

 

Some of the advice that some of the posters have been giving is valid and accurate but some of it has been oriented towards helping you accept how a nonmonogamous lifestyle can be achieved and enjoyed while I am approaching this from the standpoint of don't go there and don't even think about it.

 

Say what you want about having fuck buddies and disposable lovers (thats often a sign of some form of maladjustment in and of itself but thats another thread) but I believe in your heart of hearts you want a traditional one-on- one monogamous relationship, at least at this time. And I say go for it and pursue what you really want. If you want a man that will love you and only you and will express himself sexually with only you and you are the same with him, then that is where you should be spending your time and energies. There are literally billions of men throughout the world that want a traditional monogamous marriage.

 

Yes we all have sexual drives and insticts that makes us attracted to members of the opposite sex, but we also have the ability of conscious choice and the ability to make a rational decision to pursue the lifestyle that we truly desire. Just because we have instincts that make us desire fantasize about having multiple sex partners does not mean we have to act on those instincts and desires.

[trinigemini 15]

Iapr I agree with you. Monogamy is not something that needs getting over.....lots of people love it and want it.....my problem is that I never did....until now.....I also think that FH and I need to improve our relationship and that I need to learn to trust him before we even consider swinging...and you're right that it will take time....I also think Intuition is right and I am a love junkie....I grew up reading those crappy romance novels and as much as know real love is not really like that.....since this ismy first time in love....i think i need to figure out what it really entails. And i know some of you may be asking why get married if I dont trust him cause isnt love and tust go handin hand....the answer I will give is really very simple....in all my past realationships one man was never enough there was always something missing and I always needed someone else....there has also been no other man who I even considered for a minute spending the rest of my life with....with FH i envision a future and for the first tiime I don't have a back up plan or any planned ways out. There are no longer men waiting for me outside of my relationship....and that scares me and thrills me at the same time. And right now I am not willing to share him....although I may have to stick around on this board just because of the great relationship advice I've been given.

[intuition897 2,179]

If he does it for every woman that means he wants them all to feel special and cared for....so what makes me different from them?

I guess if you answer that, you'll have your answer.

 

I just have ALOT to get over before we even go near swinging....although neither of us are adverse to the idea of having sex with each other in front of other people.

Maybe if you're both totally comfortable with this scenario, it might be a good place to start. As long as you don't allow yourselves to move faster than you're ready to. It's not a race or anything.

 

I guess it's just a matter of whether or not you are happy with the status quo. I don't want to tell you that you need to change your mind about that. If monogamy makes you happy, then more power to you! It's just not right for Mr. intuition and me. If it were me in your position, it would be a real problem for me to try and get him to go against his nature and NOT be friendly with everyone...because even if he did curb his "friendliness" for my sake, the fact that he would be friendly and flirty and caring if it weren't for his promise would bother me. That potential is there. I just have no desire to "cage" him like that. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but I'm just saying that that is how the situation would be for me. But then again, Mr. intuition and I are quasi-poly, too. We are open to allowing one another to have other meaningful relationships as long as we don't allow those other relationships to interfere with what we've worked so hard to build between us. But neither of us has acted on that standing invitation because neither of us has any interest in expending that much energy elsewhere. I'd just rather focus all my devotion on THIS relationship.

[gatorvol64 216]

I am by no means as eloquent as Intuition and a lot of the advice she has given you is not limited to a relationship that involves swinging. It is just sound advice (as usual) for any couple to follow.

 

I can understand why this relationship is a little scary for you. It is so beyond the norm you have experienced. But then again that makes it exciting too. Imagining a future with one person and the places you both can go within that relationship is thrilling. I'll voluntarily tell you or anyone that when my husband and I first got married we were not ready for swinging, in fact, it took years. But, I think that even if we had been ready from the beginning, I wouldn't have wanted to swing to start with. Call me selfish if you like but, I wanted time alone with him. I still want some time alone with him. We just no longer have to worry about how the other will take comments we make or how the other will handle situations we find ourselves in. And if we do come across something we are unsure of, well then, we know the most important thing is to talk about it. Communication like this has not always been our way of handling things. I'm so extremely glad that it is now. That is one of the biggest factors in our ability to swing now.

 

I'm a friendly person, too. My husband can find something to talk to anyone about but, that isn't really the kind of friendly I am. Some think my friendly is just flirting. And a lot of it is...but not all of it is even remotely meant as flirting in my mind. My husband does special things for me, too. (We are lucky that our men do.) He also does things for others and some of them are the same things he does for me. The difference is the thought and feelings motivating the actions. If he holds a chair out for me and then for another woman at our table, the reasons aren't the same. He is showing her respect. He is showing me that also but included in that is the love he feels for me. Does the way he holds my chair appear different than the way he holds hers? Of course not. That is just the way my husband is. He loves women in general and respects them.

 

Now, to bring the swinging aspect in (I wanted you to be able to tell the difference). It is the same situation as above but this time the woman he holds the chair for is or will be a playmate. Are there any differences? I say yes. Not in the way the actions appear but in the thoughts behind them. For this woman you will have to add a certain degree of affection. Not the love he feels for me though. We aren't the type to play with someone we can't like in other situations. We may not be in another situation with them other than playing but we prefer that to maybe be a possibility. Make sense? And if that is the case you have to have some feeling for the person...at least what you would call liking them.

 

You have to decide what the difference is between him holding you chair out for you and him doing it for someone else. Not so that you can swing but, so that you can become secure in your relationship with him. I promise you, if he loves you as much as you say he does, there is a difference. When you figure it out, you'll be comfortable with him holding the chair of anyone.

 

Like I said, I can't begin to speak the way others on this board do but I hope its helped you a little.

 

Vol

[mfmyeahbaby 19]

I want my wife to read this

[flkeyscouple 21]

Intuition, Vol, and others have said so much in this thread. This has instantly become my favorite thread! Thanks!

 

I want to add two things. Vol mentioned that she and her husband weren't ready to swing when they first got married, and even if they had been she wanted some time alone for the two of them. I know everyone is different, but I truly believe that most marriages/relationships need that time Vol was talking about. My husband and I dated for three years and were married for almost five years before our first lifestyle experience. I am SURE we could have handled an experience or two when we were first together, but I think our marriage is STRONGER because we had the time to REALLY get to know and trust each other BEFORE we shared our sex life. When you, Trini, get married I hope you'll give yourself some time alone with your hubby to bond and create the trust that seems 'thin' now.

 

And secondly, you mentioned the scared feeling of not having someone waiting for you outside your current relationship. I know exactly what you mean. I was the same. In fact I had numerous affairs during my first marriage - probably many reasons but one was that I was scared of not having that security of another person 'ready' if needed. I know that might not make sense to everyone, but I think you, Trini, know what I mean. It is a false 'security' but in my mind at the time having a 'back up' person was SECURITY. Definitely a false security, I know now.

 

I ended up going to a therapist (Pyschiatrist - but I can't spell that word!!) and he helped me through my insecurities. Of course it was too late for my marriage - which was ok because I met my soul mate and married him!! My therapist listened and discussed my life for weeks on end before he mentioned my 'having to have a stand-by man'. It enlightened me. I had never put it in that perspective. Discussing it with him made me realize my 'addiction' to security - not necessarily 'men', but 'security'. I hope you'll take this into consideration, and possibly talk to a therapist.

 

It sounds like your fiance is leaving it all up to you - and swinging is something that you may do IN THE LONG RUN. It sounds like the swinging is something you would both enjoy once your relationship is sound and secure.

 

Good luck. I'm glad you plan to stick around! Happy New Year!!

 

Sarah

[trinigemini 15]

I just wanted to thank everyone again for all their help......FH and I will not be swinging anytime soon...we are going to give it some time.....I need to learn to trust him and know that he loves me....I also know I need to get a better handle on what that entails. FH is a wonderful man but I think I will lose him if I dont get my jealousy under control (not talking about just swinging here....have been going crazy everytime some woman calls him....he has alot of women friends...and while I dontget mad and yell at him he knows it bothers me greatly.....I just dont understand why they feel the need to call him with all their problems...he has very whiny friends) So in case I dont respond to anything else on the board(.....due to the fact that you guys have already helped me so much and I dont think there is anything else that I need to say as you all now know fears I have and I think everythings else that has been bothering me little about my relationship.....) I will still be reading and I will respond if needed. Now I just need to work on me and my insecurities and jealousy...I hate it that I'm so jealous.

 

Happy New Years

[WesternSwing 504]

Trinigemini, you've already taken the biggest step, right here. You've identified the issue so now you can move forward.

 

Remember, transformation is never easy, but in the end it's always worth it.

[WesternSwing 504]

gatorvol64 said:

I am by no means as eloquent as Intuition and a lot of the advice she has given you is not limited to a relationship that involves swinging. It is just sound advice (as usual) for any couple to follow.

You know, this is exactly the point in the grand scheme of things. People always ask "how do you do it?" and you try to explain to them the dynamics of our relationship, but they just don't get it. They are still too stuck on what the selfish aspects of love and they don't see the stuff right below the surface that really keeps a relationship together. They focus on material relationship things - including sex - more than the things that really count.

 

If many could understand what Mrs. WS and I understand, and learn what we've learned about each other and ourselves, without swinging, than I feel the divorce rate would be allot less.

[ownerspet 506]

Two Things: (I see here from a possible or potential newbie perspective)

 

1. Regardless with the female friends of his, you seem to be insecure if only slightly. You need to think long and hard on how to get past this regardless of your decision to swing. I'm fortunate to have the most encouraging girlfriend that also has more friends of the opposite sex than the same sex (it's nothing we talk about much, but it's something I'm confident in with my security).

2. It sounds as though some of the individuals here are right: You do have valid concerns about swinging that may make swinging not a necessarily a bad decision, but a non-ideal decision for your lifestyle.

 

Conclusion to my Post: Definitely work on and get past insecurities with him, because he will continue to have friends of the opposite sex. However, it doesn't mean that you have something to worry about. You should feel free to ask him as much as you want about his friendships. Furthermore, before swinging you need to get past these other issues, should you decide to get into swinging. These are things that you need to be open with him about, and he should be involved every step of the way, so that he doesn't assume he knows your expectations, and you dont assume that you know his expectations.

[Second of 2 22]

Now I just need to work on me and my insecurities and jealousy.

 

From all that I've read, I would have to say you are perfectly human. In other words, there's nothing wrong with you. (which is why you shouldn't hate yourself) You are exchanging one lifestyle for another, single to married. You have expectations, questions, fears, joy, hope, anticipation and a 1000 other emotions. The best advice I heard anyone give is, focus on one thing at time. Get the married part down first.

 

Best of luck to you,

[blueguitar 15]

WOW!! Thank you trinigemini for being so open to everyone about the issues you are dealing with right now. You are being so open and talkative with everyone on here, it sounds like you are well down the road of learning how to communicate your problems to people. Its scary to confront and talk about serious issues with your SO at first, when you are still learning to love and trust them (especially with the issues you have had in the past with relationships). However, you are practicing here, and all these posts moved me quite a bit, and I just wanted to give you a thumbs up and good luck wishes.

 

To everyone else, especially intuition... WOW. My SO and I haven't started swinging yet, in fact, we have just started talking about it, and reading what you have said felt so right. (my first post is at: Getting close to friends)

 

I read all of it out loud to my fiance, and he got all smiley and thought it was all very insightful. You have helped us too, in ways you may never know!!

 

Thank you!

[cubnamy1995 124]

I wanted to chime in and back up what was said previously about having that alone time. We had the opportunity to have an experience only two years into our marriage. Had we taken it, I now believe it would have been DISASTEROUS!!! But time does indeed help love grow and mature. Once the infatuation wears off, the companionship really gets strong. IMHO, you can't really swing without companionship. If you don't have that, then it becomes a competition where nobody wins.

 

My wife and I have had our ups and downs. We have stood in the middle of the house, kids sick, behind on all the bills and getting ready to lose it all. She cried on my shoulder while I ran my hand down her hair. That is the precise moment when you know.

 

Swinging can't destroy that for us. I've had sex with many beautiful women. So has my wife. She's fucked some guys that could pass for GQ models. But at the end of the day, she and I were the ones that stood in that living room until the sun came up, and the only strength we had to go on was what we got from each other. ANd I don't care if the whole world is against us. We stand together, and we have survived everything life has thrown at us. I am her soft place to fall, and she knows it. She is the one who picks me up when I'm down and nurses me back to life, and I know it. Nothing and no one can get between us on that. That is what love truly is all about to me.

 

Sex is what we do for fun, that and golf.

[intuition897 2,179]

cubnamy1995 said:

My wife and I have had our ups and downs. We have stood in the middle of the house, kids sick, behind on all the bills and getting ready to lose it all. She cried on my shoulder while I ran my hand down her hair. That is the precise moment when you know.

 

Swinging can't destroy that for us. I've had sex with many beautiful women. So has my wife. She's fucked some guys that could pass for GQ models. But at the end of the day, she and I were the ones that stood in that living room until the sun came up, and the only strength we had to go on was what we got from each other. AND I don't care if the whole world is against us. We stand together, and we have survived everything life has thrown at us. I am her soft place to fall, and she knows it. She is the one who picks me up when I'm down and nurses me back to life, and I know it. Nothing and no one can get between us on that. That is what love truly is all about to me.

 

Sex is what we do for fun, that and golf.

 

OMG, that was just beautiful. That got me a little misty reading it. Seriously, that's what it's all about. That, folks, is the 'good stuff'.

[flkeyscouple 21]

OMG, that was just beautiful. That got me a little misty reading it. Seriously, that's what it's all about. That, folks, is the 'good stuff'.

Me too! I'm home for lunch and have tears from your post cubnamy1995! That is a great explanation of 'the good stuff'!!

[lovemonkey#1 48]

trinigemini, have you considered going to couples counseling to discuss some of these issues that you're having? i'm not suggesting that you need to talk to a therapist about "swinging" per se, but it seems to me that you have some pretty major insecurities involving your SO which is leading to a lot of mistrust. i think that needs to be addressed first and foremost.

[cubnamy1995 124]

Thanks intuition and flkeyscouple, but I know I'm not the only one out there who feels that way. This lifestyle puts your relationship on steroids. For those who have the kind of relationship we do, it is an amazing experience. When my wife leads another woman by the hand into our bedroom where I am waiting, she is expressing her great love for me that she wants me to have the moon and the stars. While I have sex with the other woman, I make love to my wife, knowing that she does this for me. I bring home a man or woman (or both ) to her for her enjoyment, and relish every moment watching her because there is nothing more beautiful in my eyes than to see her in the throes of passion, knowing how happy she is. I like to make her happy.

 

If you have not reached that level in your relationship, with such complete trust and selflessness, you won't make it in this lifestyle. Even soft swap can cause problems if you're not on solid ground. I really admire trinigemini for being honest that she is not there yet. Good for you! True love is much to valuable to gamble on a recreational activity. Never say never, because you may get there some day. But take care of what is precious first. If you nurture your relationship now, then in the years to come, you can offer each other that ultimate gift with total love and without reservation.

 

What can I say? I love my wife. She is the greatest thing that ever happened to me, and as much as I love this lifestyle, I would quit in a heartbeat if she asked me to.

 

Sorry to ramble on so long. This just touched a very wonderful nerve that really gets my passion up. Thank you again for the nice compliments.

[Tybee Swing 286]

cubnamy, I ditto what the other ladies said....I loved your posts!

 

I feel exactly as you do about my marriage, what my husband means to me, and why we swing. Our relationship is the priority. Swinging is just something we share because we love pleasing each other and seeing each other experiencing pleasure. If swinging were even slightly detrimental to our relationship, or hurt either one of us in any way, we would both give it up in a heartbeat.

 

A deeply trusting relationship is built over time. I agree with all the sound advice given to the OP.

[deanncat 25]

These are a lot of question and i should say that we have not actually swung yet, but have talked about it a lot, and that is the key talk about it a lot. Don't be afraid to say what on your mind, after all it is just talking. I don't know quite how I will act when he kisses another women, but I do know that all the talking we have done and giggling about it will be helpful when the time comes, if we go all the way and decide to swing, and after the first time there is too much uncomfortable feeling with, we can say we did that and got a t-shirt. I guess my finally advice is you can't wear out talking it is actually better for you sex life and make it a fantasize out loud, a bunch of verbal talk during sex about swinging, helps you figure out how you might feel and fun. and in are 10years of marriage if and when we decide to swing I don't see it hurting are relationship at all, I see it as fun experience

[gatorvol64 216]

Cubnamy, that was great. We've been there. All hell has been going on around us and I've just leaned into him with my head on his chest and for that time it was all quiet. Afterwards, it had recharged me enough to make it through the next round. But, even though they were hard times, they are also some of my favorites. Thank you for the visual of a good memory.

 

Vol

[cubnamy1995 124]

Thanks again everyone. That's what I like about this lifestyle. Not that any of us are perfect, but I have found that most people in this thing have mature, stable, and loving relationships. I would love to see some data on what divorce rates among swingers are, and I'd be willing to bet it is lower than our vanilla counterparts. It's just nice to talk to a group of people who are where you are and love isn't a battlefield (to quote Pat Benetar).

 

Besides, how else and where else can I get my wife to wear all of those slutty clothes I buy her? facelick

 

Ladies, each and every one of you are beautiful, magnificent creatures that make this world more beautiful and smell better. Thank you to all that give us goofy bastards a reason to want to be better men. I treasure every moment I get to spend with you (and we hope to play with you all someday! )

And thanks for letting me temporarily hijack the thread. I'm going to shut up now.

 

[WesternSwing 504]

Thanks again everyone. That's what I like about this lifestyle. Not that any of us are perfect, but I have found that most people in this thing have mature, stable, and loving relationships. I would love to see some data on what divorce rates among swingers are, and I'd be willing to bet it is lower than our vanilla counterparts. It's just nice to talk to a group of people who are where you are and love isn't a battlefield (to quote Pat Benetar).

That is a figure I think we'd all love to have, but there just isn't anything I've found out there. The only thing close is in the Bellarmine University study on swingers done seven years ago only 2% reported their marriage as being worse after swinging. Something like 62% said it got better and 36% said it stayed the same. So from that I'd have to imagine the divorce rate amongst swingers is much less than the average. Of the divorces we've seen in the Lifestyle they have both been from issues stemming from things other than swinging. They were using swinging to "fix" those problems, and it didn't. Regardless of swinging they would be divorced anyway.

 

Mr. WS