Erectile dysfunction has led to a fear of being left out

[VanHlebar 187]

Ok...time for me to put myself out there yet again on here to see if I can get some help from the collective.

 

As I have posted here a few times, I seem to have some issues at times with the little guy wanting to be ready to play at times. MrsVan and I have been in the lifestyle now for almost a year and we have had our fair share of experiences and I would have to say that we are both very comfortable in the lifestyle. Our very first experience I have already posted about here on the site, but let's just say that it was extremely bad and ended with even MrsVan and I not being able to make love for a couple of weeks as I had some serious issues.

 

Well, lately this has been occuring more frequently with a particular couple and I think I may have figured out what might be my problem. I have discussed this a little bit with some other friends, but in every scenario, I have a very serious fear of being left out. I don't mind watching if I choose to sit back and watch, but being forced to watch because I am being left out is just plain not good. MrsVan is aware of this fear and we both do our best to keep this from happening and usually talk about this before and after a playdate. I think this fear of being left out might be what causes my issues. I have a tendency to worry about being left out so much that I really expect it to happen, and we all know the old saying that if you worry about something long enough it will happen.

 

Case in point is this couple that we met back just before Thanksgiving. This is a great couple that we both really are attracted to and they are local. Sounds silly, but this has been a huge issue for us as we just haven't had any luck finding any good couples local. There is great chemistry between the husband and MrsVan and between MrsVan and the wife. I get along fine with the husband and I am really attracted to the wife. And there is the rub, she doesn't seem to be very sexually attracted to me. When it was just a threesome with her husband, her and me things were great and there was alot of sexual energy between us. Whenever it's the four of us, none. She doesn't give back anything to me at all. No oral, no touching and the only kissing is if I am the one to initiate it. After our latest playdate I had a discussion with MrsVan on the way home and I decided it was time to just ask it straight out. So I have sent an email to the couple and plainly asked if there was a sexual issue between the wife and myself. I explained that we are all adults and in this for enjoyment and if there is an issue just speak up. No big deal we just all move on and call it quits. The ball is now in their court and we will see how they respond.

 

The issue that I have now is that after two fairly rough experiences like this, where I am being sort of left out on the sidelines, how do you get beyond that? I truely am starting to believe that my issues may stem from my fear of putting myself out there and then being left on the sidelines. MrsVan does a wonderful job of attempting to direct attention back towards me during play dates, but when you put yourself out there for a playmate and nothing is returned, it is rough. Anyone been through anything like this before? How did you handle it?

 

Sorry for such a long post folks but I needed to get it all down while I was thinking about it.

 

-Van

[jon&roberta 18]

I probably don't know what I'm talking about - but here goes.

 

If 3-somes are Ok - but 4-somes are not. Maybe she has issues with her husband enjoying sex with your wife. She may want only him and you to enjoy her - but doesn't like the idea of her husband enjoying Mrs Van.

[ohash01 20]

Hmmm...I didn't get a chance to go to the meet-up, but from what everyone said, you're wonderful, so I don't think it's that you're not "putting yourself out there". Perhaps the other female is just one of those partners that likes getting ALL the attention and can do without giving any? If that's the case, no wonder you're feeling a little insecure. I know during my first couple experiences I had serious concentration issues and I just wasn't able to reciprocate because it was like I'd been blasted onto another plan of reality and I was just floating there feelin' fine. I'm not sure how involved with females MrsVan is, but does this lady reciprocate with her?

 

Asking them was probably a good idea. This way it will let you know whether you want to continue with this couple or move on. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's SO hard to get 4 people to agree on something. Good luck!

[iapr 24]

There is probably nothing ongoing that is wrong with you or anyone else, you most likely just did not have a 4-way click with that couple and that is extremely common. It is VERY hard to get 4 people to all have the same level of attraction, chemistry and interest at the same time. If you have had some good 3-ways with this couple consider yourself lucky and just appreciate that and don't dwell on the 4-way encounter falling short.

 

If they come back with an answer to your question fine, but the chances are they won't respond with any meanfull information and if they don't just let it go. After all if you are asking "why didn't fully participate in having sex with me?" you are essentially saying that you did not enjoy the experience (which you didn't) so even though you are trying to constructively improve the situation, it will put them on the defensive and most likely come off as whining and complaining that she isn't putting out right.

 

The good news is if you keep getting out there and keep a good attitude it will happen periodically. 4-way clicks are hard to come by but when they do happen (and the definately do occur they more than make up for the near misses.

 

You are correct in that the more you worry about something happening the more likely it is to occur. There is an old saying that says, "your focus becomes your reality." And that means that wherever you direct your energy and your concentration that will be the microenvirnment you create for yourself. If you tell yourself that everyone will ignore you and leave you out of the mix you will give off bad vibes and everyone will leave you out. Where as if you focus on being pleasant and sociable and being friendly to everyone people will want to be around you and you will reap the benifits.

 

Give yourself permission to fail and accept that you will not click with every but do not focus on those people but rather focus on the successes.

[VanHlebar 187]

Thanks folks for the comments. To answer a few questions. First MrsVan and the other lady have incredible chemistry and yes the other lady does reciprocate with MrsVan and quite a bit and quite well.

 

This couple is a soft swap couple which we have all talked about after we all tried a full swap and it just didn't work as the other wife wasn't ready. We didn't have any issues with them after that encounter and we have talked with both the husband and wife a lot to make sure that they were ok afterwards.

 

The reason why I asked her if there was an issue between the two of us is that when all the clothes are on, there is great chemistry and alot of flirting with between us. All of us seem to get along just fine when we are all dressed, but once the clothes fall off, she changes into someone that seems to only want to receive unless it she is giving to MrsVan. As I said before, the ball is in their court. I do realize that my question will most likely put them on the defensive, but I don't agree that by asking it that I am stating that she isn't putting out right. There isn't any right or wrong, just different preferences and I am only attempting to find out what hers/theirs are. If that is how they prefer to play, then that's ok, nothing wrong with it, just not what MrsVan and I are looking for and we can all just agree to move on.

 

Thanks again folks.

 

-Van

[flkeyscouple 21]

I'm thinking about you having the fear of being left out - much more than the problem with this specific woman.

 

My thought is that maybe you should do a few more FMF's on a regular basis. You would be the center of attention and the more this happens the less you'd THINK about being left out. I'm sure that MrsVan is great about turning the attention back to you while with other couples, but in an FMF it wouldn't be a question - you WOULD be the center of attention. Now, I'm not suggesting not doing the FMFM or soft/full swaps - just sprinkle in a few more FMF's.

 

Of course in a perfect world the FMF's are plentiful. I'm hoping you already have an elusive unicorn to call on!!

 

I'd say 'good luck' but I know you don't need it. Everything will work out just fine.

 

Sarah

[iapr 24]

I'm thinking about you having the fear of being left out - much more than the problem with this specific woman.

 

My thought is that maybe you should do a few more FMF's on a regular basis. You would be the center of attention and the more this happens the less you'd THINK about being left out. I'm sure that MrsVan is great about turning the attention back to you while with other couples, but in an FMF it wouldn't be a question - you WOULD be the center of attention. Now, I'm not suggesting not doing the FMFM or soft/full swaps - just sprinkle in a few more FMF's.

 

Of course in a perfect world the FMF's are plentiful. I'm hoping you already have an elusive unicorn to call on!!

 

I'd say 'good luck' but I know you don't need it. Everything will work out just fine.

 

Sarah

 

 

 

I think I should do a few more FMFs too . Just like we should all win the lottery too and get some of these Christmas bills taken care of. Here's the problem, an FMF certainly is not the answer to a fear of getting left out because so many gals out there are more interested in couples as a way to be with other chicks and not necessarily the guy. That being the case it would be a huge ego blow to get into an FMF situation and still be the one out in the cold.

 

No I still think they need to do some more shopping around and find a true full swap couple out there. This couple just isn't doing it for him and while he is being bummed about that and writing to us for advice, somewhere out there is a couple that is more interested in full swap than in F/F play.

 

Mr Van you are internalizing the issue and looking at it as if there is something wrong with you and it is something for you to fix. It isn't that, I am sure you are fine and there is nothing wrong with you and there isn't anything to be fixed. It is just part of the dynamics of the relationship you and your wife have with this particular couple. To me it just sounds like they (or at least she) is primarily interested in F/F play and not so much about full swap. Trouble is YOU are the one coming up on the short end of the stick and so you are the one with the legitimate grevience with the deal and I think you are well within your right to pursue grazing in other pastures. There is no good guy and no bad guy here it is just not working out well for you and that is very common. Just keep looking, they are out there.

[freebird 15]

I think you have done the right thing by putting the question bluntly to the other couple. The golden rule is that if things don't work out, just move on. No point in getting stuck and feeling bad.

The very size of your post and the feeling u r able to convey through it shows that ur a reasonable sort of guy. So better luck next time..Just remember this "keep moving"

[NCcuriouscpl 15]

To answer a few questions. First MrsVan and the other lady have incredible chemistry and yes the other lady does reciprocate with MrsVan and quite a bit and quite well.

 

This couple is a soft swap couple which we have all talked about after we all tried a full swap and it just didn't work as the other wife wasn't ready. We didn't have any issues with them after that encounter and we have talked with both the husband and wife a lot to make sure that they were ok afterwards.

 

The reason why I asked her if there was an issue between the two of us is that when all the clothes are on, there is great chemistry and alot of flirting with between us. All of us seem to get along just fine when we are all dressed, but once the clothes fall off, she changes into someone that seems to only want to receive unless it she is giving to MrsVan.

-Van

 

From what you've said so far about the 'other wife'......it sounds like she has some 'issues' with playing with males other than her 'hubby' to me. Remember originally she 'wasn't ready'. Sounds like she still isn't 'ready'. She may never be 'ready'.

 

We have 'played' with a couple that my hubby has similar problems with the 'other wife'. She's fine with me, she's fine with her hubby or when we are all playing together.........but when it comes to 'two on two', things change. With her, it seems to be an 'attention' issue.....she doesn't like her husbands attention going to me, she wants it all. We've quit playing with this couple because there seem to be too many 'games' being played.

 

Of course you want to see what their reply is before you make a decision to move forward. But if it were me, I would suggest it regardless. The situation is causing problems for you personally, and it doesn't sound like you have done anything that could have caused it.

 

I like the FMF idea, and I think you should give it a try! After having a 'play time that wasn't productive' sometimes a boost to the ego is helpful!

 

Keep us posted on how it goes!!

[livnlovinlife 15]

Ok...time for me to put myself out there yet again on here to see if I can get some help from the collective.

 

As I have posted here a few times, I seem to have some issues at times with the little guy wanting to be ready to play at times. MrsVan and I have been in the lifestyle now for almost a year and we have had our fair share of experiences and I would have to say that we are both very comfortable in the lifestyle. Our very first experience I have already posted about here on the site, but let's just say that it was extremely bad and ended with even MrsVan and I not being able to make love for a couple of weeks as I had some serious issues.

 

Well, lately this has been occuring more frequently with a particular couple and I think I may have figured out what might be my problem. I have discussed this a little bit with some other friends, but in every scenario, I have a very serious fear of being left out. I don't mind watching if I choose to sit back and watch, but being forced to watch because I am being left out is just plain not good. MrsVan is aware of this fear and we both do our best to keep this from happening and usually talk about this before and after a playdate. I think this fear of being left out might be what causes my issues. I have a tendency to worry about being left out so much that I really expect it to happen, and we all know the old saying that if you worry about something long enough it will happen.

 

Case in point is this couple that we met back just before Thanksgiving. This is a great couple that we both really are attracted to and they are local. Sounds silly, but this has been a huge issue for us as we just haven't had any luck finding any good couples local. There is great chemistry between the husband and MrsVan and between MrsVan and the wife. I get along fine with the husband and I am really attracted to the wife. And there is the rub, she doesn't seem to be very sexually attracted to me. When it was just a threesome with her husband, her and me things were great and there was alot of sexual energy between us. Whenever it's the four of us, none. She doesn't give back anything to me at all. No oral, no touching and the only kissing is if I am the one to initiate it. After our latest playdate I had a discussion with MrsVan on the way home and I decided it was time to just ask it straight out. So I have sent an email to the couple and plainly asked if there was a sexual issue between the wife and myself. I explained that we are all adults and in this for enjoyment and if there is an issue just speak up. No big deal we just all move on and call it quits. The ball is now in their court and we will see how they respond.

 

The issue that I have now is that after two fairly rough experiences like this, where I am being sort of left out on the sidelines, how do you get beyond that? I truely am starting to believe that my issues may stem from my fear of putting myself out there and then being left on the sidelines. MrsVan does a wonderful job of attempting to direct attention back towards me during play dates, but when you put yourself out there for a playmate and nothing is returned, it is rough. Anyone been through anything like this before? How did you handle it?

 

Sorry for such a long post folks but I needed to get it all down while I was thinking about it.

 

-Van

 

Hi Van,

 

My thought is that the woman might be submissive with men. She might be dom or sub with women, but with men she might be too shy to start anything, and needs and wants the man to be in control.

 

I know for me, especially when it is the first time with a couple, I like for the man to be in control. I can be dom or sub, but don't always want to be the one in control.

 

She might be self conscious herself and gets a sort of stage fright when the clothes come off and she is expected to perform with another man.

 

Something that I have come to realize just today that also might have something to do with it, is kissing.

 

I find for myself that kissing is an emotional act. It seems to be the one thing in a relationship that can bring people even closer because of the passion involved

I don't want to kiss men other than my boyfriend now. I have only realized this today, and have been swinging for about a month. I knew I had some issue with the kissing but couldn't put my finger on what it was. I don't want to get attached to any other man besides my boyfriend. I don't want there to be any more emotions other than friendship and a fun time having sex and enjoying each other. Kissing can mess that up and stir up more things than you want to feel towards someone that isn't your husband, finance', boyfriend, partner, etc.

 

This might just be something that she feels also..

 

She also might sense your fear and it makes her not feel as comfortable with you. Do you have any worried expressions on your face? Are you relaxed and smiling? I know it is hard for me to feel attraction to someone's personality if they are unsure about themselves or so worried about it all that they can't be themselves and act naturally around others very well.

 

I am not saying that any of these things are true. They are just ideas of what (might) be going on. I sure hope you and your wife find what you are looking for and can resolve the situation with the couple you had become friends with.

 

Erin

[Larry & Michell 15]

I would not like that situation at all. I think its rude on their part. There have been couples Michelle and I have played with in group environments where we both played with the Mrs. but Michelle did not really want to play with the husband. But that was in group situations, and he was getting plenty from others. When we had the chance to play with them alone, we politely avoided it because even though we both would have loved to play with the Mrs., Michelle was not going to play with the husband. It just seems so obviously rude to not reciprocate. We're all curious what their response will be, but barring an enthusiastic response on their part, I think you and MrsVan should say adios to them.

 

My novice advice would be to keep looking for a couple you both click with, and until then you and MrsVan just concentrate on each other.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

...She doesn't give back anything to me at all. No oral, no touching and the only kissing is if I am the one to initiate it.

 

-Van

Van ~

 

She doesn't give you oral, she doesn't touch you, since they're a soft swap couple that means no intercourse, and she has only kissed you when you initiate? My gawd man, why the heck are you putting up with this? It sounds like she only wants oral from you (am I right) and then she's off to play with Mrs Van and her hubby. You're getting the short end of this whole deal.

 

I'm curious, what does the other hubby do with Mrs Van and what does Mrs Van do with him?

 

The problem with finding a "great" couple who is also "local" is that you start talking yourself into trying to make it work even though the signs all say "DEAD END." You so badly want it to work that you try overlook the obvious things that aren't working for all of you - and in your case - you start wondering if you're the problem.

 

I don't think you're the problem at all. And I think you did the right thing by writing them about how you feel. BTW, have they responded since you wrote? Please update us.

 

You didn't say if you met this couple through an ad site, or how much you learned about each other's style of play, boundaries, etc. before you got together. Was this clearly apparent before you began playing? This could be a clue to the less than fulfilling experiences you've had; you may be meeting people who aren't prepared to share themselves like you and Mrs Van want to share yourselves with others.

 

LM

[VanHlebar 187]

Sorry folks for leaving this thread hanging and not posting back. I will try to answer some of the questions and comments.

 

The wife has responded back to my email and to be honest I was quite surprised by her response. Again I figured that we would get not response or they would respond very defensively, which I would have understood. What did happen is that she apologized for leaving me out and that she did not realize she was doing it and that she was very sorry that she hurt me in any way. She indicated that she hasn't really had a couple where she was sexually attracted to both the husband and the wife and that she thinks she just gets carried away with playing with MrsVan.

 

MrsVan does play with the husband and the other wife. She does perform oral on both during play dates as they both do back to MrsVan. There doesn't seem to be any issues there at all.

 

We did meet this couple through an ad site and at first they thought they might be a full swap couple. After our attempt at full swap with them one evening, they have since talked about it and they have changed their style of play to soft swap only. They discussed that with us and at the time MrsVan and I were ok with it for now.

 

We have not met this couple again yet for another play date, but MrsVan and I have talked alot about them since our last date and we have decided that we will give it one more try. If the same thing happens again then we are going to have to politely end the relationship, at least from a playing stand point.

 

So thanks everyone for the comments, they are greatly appreciated. Now for those suggesting "a few" FMFs, I couldn't agree more! I really think that would definately help me out with my fear of being left out. So...anyone want to help us out with that then.

 

-Van

[Guest MrsVan]

Well everyone, we have an update to this thread and thought we would share it with you all. After the emails that MrVan sent to the wife, they contacted us last week and wanted us to come over to their house. We IM'd alot during the week prior and seemed excited about it.

 

We showed up at their house and just hung out listening to music and having some drinks. Then as the evening progressed we headed to the bedroom. Things seemed to be going really well (again they are a soft swap couple) MrVan went down on her and her husband attempted to go down on me but then us couples wound up with our SO. While MrVan and I were in a 69 position and the other couple was playing all of the sudden the husband said that they needed to stop as she was crying. She would not tell us what was wrong or if we did something to upset her. So we got dressed and felt it was best for us to leave.

 

Here is where my frustration comes in.....We went out to the living room to get our stuff together and the husband followed to blow out the candles throughout the house. We proceeded to the door with our things while talking to him and MrVan unlocked the door. We turn around and the husband disappeared, the wife remained in the bedroom not saying goodbye. We basically let ourselves out of their home and neither of them said goodbye. I felt this to be very rude and at this point I am done with this couple.

 

MrVan and I both feel there is too much drama there with them and that it seems that the husband wants to be in the lifestyle but maybe the wife really doesn't want to be.

 

We have not heard anything back from this couple no email and they have not been on IM so I think they are done as well which at this point does not bother me in the least. I do not like dealing with rude people and I guess we found out their true colors.

 

MrsVan

[iapr 24]

WOW. That gives me the creeps just reading it. I am sorry you had such a frustrating and awfull experience. Just keep in mind there are many healthy and happy couples that would be happy to hang out with you so do not let this particular experience get you down too much. And definately do not waste any more bandwidth on them.

[clutch 28]

I think you have done the right thing by putting the question bluntly to the other couple. The golden rule is that if things don't work out, just move on. No point in getting stuck and feeling bad.

The very size of your post and the feeling u r able to convey through it shows that ur a reasonable sort of guy. So better luck next time..Just remember this "keep moving"

 

 

I agree with freebird.... The statistics heavily favor you finding a couple out there that is an ideal match for you guys....without a whole lot of difficulty.

 

And you sound like a very nice guy, BUT even if you're the nicest guy in the world, the need for balance and equality outweighs your sacrificing so that the other three can have fun. In the long run (and often short run) it ain't gonna work if it ain't balanced in everyone's sight. (I'm not talking about couples who want and go after 3 somes--they know what they're about).

 

I'm strictly refering to couples who swing.

 

To quote the old song: "If it don't come easy...you'd better let it go..."

[Guest MrsVan]

And you sound like a very nice guy, BUT even if you're the nicest guy in the world, the need for balance and equality outweighs your sacrificing so that the other three can have fun. In the long run (and often short run) it ain't gonna work if it ain't balanced in everyone's sight. (I'm not talking about couples who want and go after 3 somes--they know what they're about).

 

I am a little confused about your above statement?? But why should MrVan give some balance so the rest of us can have fun? If MrVan is not having a good time, then I as the wife am not having a good time. This lifestyle is for the both of us and it seems that with your comment you were being a little harsh on MrVan and not the other couple. MrVan should not ever have to sacrifice things for others enjoyment, period....And if that is your idea of fun then so be it, but it is not ours.

 

We have given up on this couple as hard as it has been. We are not going to contact them as we wanted to see if they would contact us but we have not heard from them so guess they are feeling the same way. So as for your comment of "if it dont come easy...then let it go.." we let them go.

 

MrsVan

[Spoomonkey 421]

MrsVan said:

If MrVan is not having a good time, then I as the wife am not having a good time.

 

I agree with MrsVan. You are suggesting taking one for the team - not that he is playing with someone outside of his strike zone, but that he is playing with someone that - for one reason or the other, things just don't click.

 

In the words of Van Wilder's Dad, "Sometimes you have to realize a bad investment and cut your losses... Write that down."

 

There is a limit to how much you can or should try with a couple. If the chemistry isn't working and everyone isn't enjoying themselves, it is best to step away. Preferable to part as friends if possible, but definitely best to give up the sexual side of the relationship.

[VanHlebar 187]

I think you guys may have misunderstood his comments or maybe I am. I took them to mean that if it isn't balanced with all four of us (me not having any fun) then we should let it go and move on. I didn't get the vibe of him saying I needed to do it for them...but maybe I am the one missing something here..besides the playtime.

 

-Van

[clutch 28]

I think you guys may have misunderstood his comments or maybe I am. I took them to mean that if it isn't balanced with all four of us (me not having any fun) then we should let it go and move on. I didn't get the vibe of him saying I needed to do it for them...but maybe I am the one missing something here..besides the playtime.

 

-Van

 

You understood me correctly... I can come off a little convoluted sometimes...especially if I don't proof my writing or put enough paragraphs in.

[NandTfromCA 84]

Sorry to hear that you two were treated like that. Whatever is going on with them is unfortunate but clearly they have a very low self-awareness at best and are really selfish at worst.

 

You two are good looking and seem like really nice people so I have to think there are a ton of other potential matches for you in Cinci.

 

T

 

PS. I don’t blame you for having performance anxiety if you are feeling left out. It’s already been said that EVERYONE should be included (or at least clear expectations need to be set from the beginning about who will be included).