Are single men really worthless?

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

A dime per dozen. This has been the value placed on single men repeatedly.

 

Are single men really worthless?

 

Aren't we all just people? I am apparently the pendulem of swingers. Having lost my mate to death after 10 years of swinging I was shocked at the way I was treated.

 

She died suddenly. Suddenly I was an outcast in the very society that we had embraced.

 

I am sure that divorced single men have gone through the same process.

 

I don't harbor any ill feelings whatsoever though because we were the same way as a couple. When the mate left the package deal was different. We showed no sympathy toward the single guy that lost his wife. Now he was just a horny single guy. Little did I know I would be there soon.

 

At first I was very angry though. When I managed to find a female I was again welcomed with open arms to the clubs that I frequented.

 

That is the way of the world though. The knockout rate will get you if you let it.

 

It appears that I am single again. I wish to publicly have my name changed to Flori_DAMAN and if Julie will let me do it then I will appreciate it.

 

I know that Julie does not like to have name changes because it can confuse people. However considering that I have changed status and states and I have posted for a long time I think it would be appropriate, but its ok if not.

 

I would also like to offer assistance to both single guys and married couples that like single guys.

 

I am prepared to do a topic within this board that addresses the plight of both single males in the lifestyle and couples that seek single males.

 

If my name continues to be michigancouple then thats OK.

 

I don't want to change policies, but I do want to create a system that makes it less risky and more comfortable to engage with single men in my little tiny way.

 

First of all I would like to really get to the nuts and bolts of single males.

 

Personally I am not going to be swinging for quite some time unless I get really lucky, which I don't see happening.

 

I would very much like to offer an exchange of feelings concerning single men and couples seeking them in the lifestyle.

 

Do to the disparaging remarks so often heard, (i.e. a dime a dozen), about single males I think the quality, (which is reconizably most are married screwballs and single guys that can't get any), of true lifestyle single males should be recognized.

 

I would like to be a spokesperson so to speak within this board to both defend the true lifestyle single male and the true couple seeking them.

 

A good single man in the lifestyle is not worth a dime per dozen. He is worth some very good times.

 

They are though truly hard to find.

 

You can't really hope to go to the bar or the next superbowl party to just have someone fuck your wife and think its safe.

 

My feelings are that a good single male that should be considered has qualities beyond the average single male that is just looking to dump a load.

 

He may have experience in the lifestyle or just be genuinely intrigued by it.

 

He may be a good looking man with lots of charisma or he may be an average guy with no desire to have a long lasting commitment due to his status.

 

Maybe he is in between relationships and just wants to share himself.

 

They are agreeably easier to find than the elusive single female but how do you know what he is up to?

 

Is there any way to screen this guy?

 

I believe so.

 

I have preached on safety of meeting single males for a very long time. You should never meet without making him realize that he is indeed the lower status until you meet and verify his reality.

 

You should take extreme caution. No holds barred. Don't meet him at your house or in a non-public place....blah blah blah.

 

Some of the issues I hope to address are:

 

How do you deal with single men at swingers clubs, (which I personally feel is the safest place).

 

How do you screen single men online?

 

How do you meet single men in the real world and know that the reprucussions of the meeting won't cause problems?

 

What do you really want in a single male?

 

And for you single guys:

 

Why do you want to swing?

 

Do you realize the impact you may have if you do something that is out of bounds?

 

Many things that are totally acceptable with couples are not acceptable with single males.

 

If you have the mindset that you are among the "dime a dozen" guys then you will have desperation written all over your face.

 

Single guys are horribly trod upon in the lifestyle.

 

Guys that call themselves swingers and are just looking for a piece of ass are the reason. Most (around 95% in my feeling), are married or just looking to get there rocks off. They have no clue to the swingers mindset.

 

I hope to somehow seperate single men that have no clue to the reality of the lifestyle.

 

I will post some polls that deal with what single men and couples that seek them really think.

 

If you are a single man that is just looking to cheat behind her back then don't respond.

 

If you are a couple that feel single males have no place in the lifestyle then don't respond. Because you don't have any interest in single lifestyle males anyhow.

 

I would like to hear from both single males and couples that truly seek them.

 

I would like advice on how to design the polls.

 

I would also like to know if and why you consider that being "a dime a dozen" could be construed as insulting.

 

John

[Alura 2,775]

I'm confused, John. Have you and Tam broken up or are you just living separately until you have a bank full of dollars?

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Our last few conversations tilt toward the split up. I haven't been broadcasting our twists and turns but its not looking good right now.

 

She moved and changed her phone number. That was the main reason I couldn't talk about it much. There are people on this board that know her. I wanted to keep her privacy.

 

We have the same feelings for each other we always did but there are massive wedges between us that neither of us seem capable of budging. Its not about the dollars though, its about priorities and family. Both of us have priorities and family in mind but neither of us agree on these very important issues. I will note that swinging had nothing to do with the likely demise of our relationship though. Actually it was a big gob of glue that we still talk about. Yes, we still talk almost daily but that won't last for long.

 

Thanks for asking Mr. Alura. John.

[Alura 2,775]

Sorry to hear it, John. We'll keep hoping for positive Karma to step in and rescue the situation. It's always sad to see this happen when love still seems to be involved. Regardless of where it all leads, we wish the best to both of you.

[OhioCouple 41]

Wow John,

 

You addressed a kazillion things in one post. Now everybody knows how long winded and inquisitive that I am, so I promise to keep this short.

 

First off, Big Hugs.

 

I'll only address this question at first. If you were shunned by the clubs that you normally attended when married and swinging, were the patrons the same (meaning regulars) or are you talking about attending different clubs where you didn't know anyone? If they were the same ones that knew you before you suddenly became single and shunned you, then you have just given me another good reason for why I don't care for Clubs and prefer to get to know others on an outside level.

 

Lori

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Thanks Lori and a big ole hug to you too!

 

This phenonenom is one which is very common in practically aspects of society. It took me quite a bit of time and therapy to understand it. People in general fear death. When someone, especially a younger person dies suddenly at a young age it is a threat to their own own sense of mortality. We all fear death, that is a part of survival. If you think you don't then see if your heart beats fast next time a truck almost hits you.

 

Swinging as well as non-swinging friends and even relatives seemed very uneasy around me for years. This leads to a deeper sense of isolation and remorse. Having spoken with many other young widowed people (in fact Tam is one herself), this is a common reaction across the board. So, Iguess I shouldn't point at swingers more than anyone else, or clubs for that matter.

 

She died 9 years ago tomorrow btw. We had a really rough winter that year and people drove from all over the state to attend her funeral. Many of my relatives just couldn't understand how we knew so many couples from all over. Looking back it was actually amusing watching them address our relatives questions about how we knew them.....everyone had a pre-planned answer and some of them were remarkably witty,,,lol. I am sure some of my cousins were bewildered though.

 

But after the funeral the phone stopped ringing and it slowly sank in how much life would change.

 

The only thing I really don't like about clubs is that I personally don't do real well with crowds. The cliques are a thing of life that I think is a bit over analyzed. Even bowling leagues form cliques. It is a natural thing to do. It takes so much time to get to know and trust someone that once you know a few regulars you tend to naturally stick with them and leave it up to the others to tend to the newbies. So, ultimately until a couple has a familiar face they may feel like they are shunned. However the couples that were new and approached us or others in a friendly way soon became a member of the dreaded clique anyhow if they were not pushy or what not.

 

Well, I got windy again, but Lori, if you go to a club just expect to find people there. Don't expect them to be any different than other groups of people. You will like some, not care for some, some will be nice and some jerks...hope that helps...John.

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

I would also like to know if and why you consider that being "a dime a dozen" could be construed as insulting.

I don't like to think of any breathing species as a dime a dozen. To me it sounds cheapening and discounting existence. There is a big difference though between a cheater and a single, be it male or female.

 

I at one time wanted to include a single male in our intimate life but now, due to the influx of cheating married men of late, I have backed WAY off from that. I can't help it though. Cheating people just disgust me and I have no tolerance for it.

 

I will only address this board. I do believe that there are quite a few singles on here that are not cheating and understand what swinging is all about. This is my opinion only, but I think those true *swingles* need to step up to the plate and police the male sector. You, John, with your experience on both sides of the fence are one. Perhaps you can help turn this around for the true singles and how others view them.

 

Most of my life my friends have been males. I wasn't a play with your dolly kind of girl, rather the kid that was putting together the next neighborhood football or baseball game and I would get down and dirty with them. In my adult life I gravitated toward men as friends and have had very few female friends. I have an abundance of male friends (never thought about them in swinging terms as I didn't know what it was then) of which some are still single and probably some of the best friends I have to date.

 

During my single years, we would be each others dates to weddings etc. but there was no pawing attempt for sexual action, nor was I treated as an easy target. So I know there are good, respectfull men out there. The problem is finding them and I don't think frequenting bars, clubs or online is the way to do so. I now think, for swinging purposes that one must find a single male who they meet in a real life environment and are respectfull towards women.

 

John thanks for answering my first question. I know all to well how people seem to drop off the face of the earth after a tragedy. I have been guilty of it myself, so your response made perfect sense.

 

Lori

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I will only address this board. I do believe that there are quite a few singles on here that are not cheating and understand what swinging is all about. This is my opinion only, but I think those true *swingles* need to step up to the plate and police the male sector.

 

I agree Lori. We do have some great single guys around here. The problem is that the ones who aren't necessarily tend to be the more outspoken. And the few that are, don't speak up nearly enough. I think that perhaps the few good ones are scared to speak up for fear of being slammed simply for being a single male regardless. But I think that if they would speak up more often and share their views that the couples here would see which ones really are worth their salt (and worth a lot more than a dime a dozen - at least a dime a piece ).

[curious24 17]

Being a single male I think that this is a great idea. Although, I do feel like we are a dime a dozen... that is if you want to deal with all the pricks out there.. from what I have seen and read it seems to me that finding a respectful single male is just as hard if not harder than finding a single lady in the lifestyle. Just look at all the screening you have to do for a single male. IMO it's almost the same for all those single ladies out there who are just "bots" or scams to try and get you to go to their web site and sign up etc. Those are getting to be really good now a days and they are coming up with new ideas to "fake" you out.

 

at any rate... it would be nice to find a site where single males are screened for the couples before hand like at some swinger clubs. then couples or whomever could feel fairly comfortable that they knew what they were getting.

 

anyway thanks for the great thread here

[bootsie 15]

This is my first and with luck not my last post here.

 

Let me begin by saying that I am a single male that would be classified as a "cheater". I have been married to my wife for over 32 years now and love her dearly. For the first 15 years of our marriage sex was great and we had a lot of fun and although we never found anyone to swing with we discussed it from time to time and she was open to try it.

 

Unfortunately, in 1984, out of the blue she became a Jehovah's Witness (against my will) after having someone else's child (she doesn't know that I found out), but I decided to stay with her and our three children anyway. I stayed true to her until 1999, when i decided to see some other women to see if sex could be fun again for me. (I am not going to get into the details of our sex life, other than to say it is way more satisfying for her than it is for me.)

 

My extramarital activity has NEVER been at the cost of fullfilling her emotional or sexual needs. I have dated a number of women, married, widowed, and single. We have had very good relationships up to the point where the sex began to create emotional bonds. Although we would start with the idea of just getting together for an evening of great sex, it always wound up with me hurting them because despite what they said they were looking for a lot more, and I was not willing to leave my wife. That was not what I was looking for, so I don't look in those areas anymore.

 

The swinger "lifestyle" advertises no strings recreational sex between friends, which is what I was hoping to find, so I decided to try that route, but after answering numerous ads and corresponding with several couples I found that there is indeed a barrier to entry for single men who are not an Adonis with the cock of a racehorse. Things nearly always end when I tell them I am married. Would I be better off lying about my marital status?

 

I can understand the attitude as it relates to some of the more obnoxious "studs" who may be out there, but is it necessary to tar all single men with that broad brush? What exactly is wrong with a single male sharing some good times with a couple if everyone is open to being friends??? Is there no room at all in the "lifestyle" for a decent single male who may be in a sexually unfullfilling marriage? It seems the "dime a dozen" attitude leads to a lot of closed minds among you folk.

[OhioCouple 41]

Bootsie,

 

This is not meant to flame you, but you are not a *single male* as you choose to describe yourself. You are a married male trying to be in the swinging world, *married people* swing together in a way that is comfortable for them be it either separate rooms, same rooms, what ever. It is a joint effort.

 

Yes, I would call you a cheater. How can you *date* people when you are a married male? Dating is what *singles* do, not what a married person does. Married people *meet* with like minded singles or couples, they do not date.

 

If emotional ties were happening then I would say that you connected with lonely depressed females or if a female within a couple became that attracted to you she was unhappy in the marriage anyway. This is not what swingers are or do. It is an enhancement to our lives and not one where an emotional commitment in the sense of love enters into the equation. You were not swinging in any sense that I know of and have learned over the last year about how TRUE swingers feel and interact.

 

Perhaps I am just really slow or mis-informed, but I didn't know that swingers advertised. I never even knew the word existed until about 18 months ago. Now I am 42 years old and have read everything I can get my hands on since I was three. I can't believe that I would have missed an advertisement of such because I read the porn mags too.

 

Regardless of the situation with your wife, you are correct, there is indeed a barrier that will keep you out of most of the swingers bedroom. A true single has a hard enough time because there are too many married men out there trying to present themselves as a single, when indeed they are cheating on their spouses. Any way you look at it bootsie, you are cheating on not only your wife but you are cheating yourself out of a more fullfilling life If you don't have the gumption to leave an unsatisfying marriage.

 

If you begin to lie to others that you are not married, trust me, the consequences would not be pretty. Swingers are all about trust and honesty not only amongst themselves but with each other. Lie, get caught and suffer a fate worse than having your face being placed on a billboard in a busy intersection.

 

Go for prostitutes, pay the price and not drag us or any unsuspecting female down with you please. This way you won't have to lie and you won't have to worry about emotional commitment.

 

Lori

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by curious24

IMO it's almost the same for all those single ladies out there who are just "bots" or scams to try and get you to go to their web site and sign up etc. Those are getting to be really good now a days and they are coming up with new ideas to "fake" you out.

You bring up a very valid point here. We have run across quite a few of these scams. They present themselves as a single woman, lure you in with what you want to hear and then forward you to their web page. Always a paying one of course. It all goes back to using your head and being cautious when dealing with ads or online connections.

 

Lori

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

I just don't know where to begin with Bottsie's post. I will try to cut through my interpretation to the best of my ability but can't possibly begin to organize all of the obvious contradictions.

 

First of all, the president of the US got caught cheating not so long ago, a good number of our idols, from moviestars to sports stars cheat ( recently one was jailed for setting up the murder of his wife...damn i cant think of his name now). Anyone familiar with famous people and scandals could write books on it and I am sure many have been written on this subject.

 

The local pastor may cheat too. You know people at work and people in your church or local PTA that cheat.

 

It is not my place to sit in judgement of anyone that cheats. I cannot say whether their reasons are justified or not.

 

However one thing I can do is use the real definition of cheating. It has recently been quoted elsewhere on this board but I will post it again.

 

Main Entry: 1cheat

Pronunciation: 'chEt

Date: 1590

transitive senses

1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice

3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting

intransitive senses

1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)

2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on

 

 

It is very important to use correct terminology. To sum Bootsie's comments it sounds like this:

 

I am an honest single male that is married and has sex with people without my wifes consent but don't cheat. Now I want to have sex with swingers but they don't want to have sex with me because I am an honest, married, cheating, single guy. Should I lie to them too?

 

It would seem to me that you are twisting and contorting quite a few terms here designed to simply fool people.

 

Cheating has gone on since Adam and Eve. Swinging just isn't cheating. If you have sex with someone without your S/O's knowledge it will always be considered cheating.

 

Swingers just happen to despise cheating. So my advice would be to back off of swingers instead of trying to confuse them. You should have noticed by now that swingers aren't easily confused anyhow. How much time have you wasted so far? Now you are going to lie your way in if you haven't already?

 

This post truly demonstrates the consistent need for swingers to use good screening methods or just choose to swing with couples. If you tend to believe anything anyone says to you and don't want to end up with a married, cheating, single, honest guy then I would suggest you stick with couples only. Of course some of them are pairs of cheaters also. After a while you can spot both single married guys and cheating couples pretty quickly. They just act different. A zebra cant hide his stripes or change them to spots at will.

 

Anyone that rolls this many total contradictions into one post seems incapable of the truth and I am sure anyone with half a mind (let alone two), would have no problems seeing through it under any circumstances.

 

Question for other single guys: How do you assure couples that you are in fact single? And couples are you using basic screening methods? It's really not that hard to do.

 

Married cheating single honest guys are in fact a dime a dozen. Crossing the line with your s/o is your business and the business of whomever would indulge with you knowing the real thruth, but when you bring another couple into it through deception then you bring it to another level. A disgusting level. The level of the type that the majority of swingers totally abhor and always have and due to the nature of swinging always will.

 

Thanks curious24 btw. Your comments are well accepted. Lori and Julie you are always right on target.

 

This type of discussion tends to flush the single, cheating, honest married guys out because if everyone including the real single guy agrees then its a real threat to those that would scam. Let it be known that cheaters won't be tolerated in the lifestyle.

 

John.

[OhioCouple 41]

LOL about the newest label in the swinging world:

 

Married cheating single honest guys are in fact a dime a dozen.

 

Let's add though:

 

True single honest swinging guys are diamonds in the rough.

 

 

Great post John.

 

Lori

[bootsie 15]

Ohio couple et al,

 

Got the message. Bye...

 

bootsie

[TeamSoBe 36]

Originally posted by bootsie

Got the message. Bye...

 

Anybody want to start a pool on how long before the next cheating husband shows up to whine about how we all shut him out?

 

The open nature of this board encourages anonymous and transient posters and that's one of the best things about this community. It also makes us vunerable to cheating husbands who want to lead a secret life with no credit card billing records to give them up. Bootsie won't be the last.

 

Back to the original conversation though: John, we're one of those couples that truly enjoys MMF with single guys. I personally prefer nailing girls, but watching my wife get boned by a male friend is a pretty close second. We haven't come up with any way to screen "single" swinger guys to make sure that they really are single or to make sure that they aren't psychos, so we just don't go there. Attraction to a guy is much more about his personality than his looks, so it's really hard to spot an attraction when you're dealing with online photos and profiles anyway. It's easy to weed out all of the guys that post photos of their dicks, but how do you spot the one or two guys that you might actually get along with out of the masses of guys left over that are smart enough not to post photos of their dicks in their ads?

 

We are of the opinion that for us it's just not possible. We meet our single guys in person through friends, and we only get naked with them after we are totally certain that we fully understand whatever ties they might have to whatever women are in their lives. That normally means that we won't do anything with any guy unless we're really truly friends. We need to know where they live, know some of their friends, know a little bit about them, that kind of thing. The sex is much better with friends anyway, and since we know more about them we're more assured that nothing bizarre is going to happen during or after a threesome. The number of attractive single guys that we make friends with is relatively small, and the number of them who are fully eligible as group sex partners is even smaller, so after four years of our basically endless search we have only had a total of about three guys, we're working on one or two new prospects right now. It's a long and slow process though, and it does not start out online because there just isn't a way to ensure safety and honesty that way.

 

Some day I'm going to learn to edit my posts so that I get the point more quickly, 95% of the readers of this board have already skipped this post without seeing my point. My point is that considering how few truly worthy truly single guys there are out there, the real ones are extremely valuable. Certainly not a dime a dozen. I will very seriously say that it's harder to find a good single guy than it is to get a single bisexual girl. A couple can snare an adventurous bisexual girl by wandering into any strip club anywhere, but locating a guy that you trust to screw your wife, that's hard. Guys that run around trying to market themselves as eligible single guys though, those guys are a dime a dozen.

 

John, I'm sorry to hear about your wife. Both of them actually, but especially the first. My life is so wrapped up in my wife's life that I have no clue what I would do if she died suddenly like that, it's horrifying to think about.

[DragonsLair 26]

Are single men a dime a dozen? No, not the true single guy. Only the cheaters posing as single guys. And it is unfair to the good, true single guys to see single guys bashed so much in this forum. Unfortunately it seems that there's much more experience with cheaters or pushy, obnoxious single guys than with the good ones here.

 

To those of you who aren't pushy, obnoxious, or cheaters, keep your chin up. There are couples out there looking for you. It just may take a while for them to find you. Stay the way you are. You are the diamond among the cubic zirconia, to take an idea from Lori.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

 

Quote

Originally posted by TeamSoBe

Anybody want to start a pool on how long before the next cheating husband shows up to whine about how we all shut him out?

We haven't come up with any way to screen "single" swinger guys

We are of the opinion that for us it's just not possible.

John, I'm sorry to hear about your wife. Both of them actually, but especially the first. My life is so wrapped up in my wife's life that I have no clue what I would do if she died suddenly like that, it's horrifying to think about.

 

What a refreshing post. Whew. I am glad that we are getting back to the point.

 

OK, for the pool I'll throw twenty cents in that it takes less than a week for another single, honest, married cheater to try and defend himself by telling some hard luck story that would completely diffuse swingers current attitude.

 

Perhaps his wife has a rare form of a highly contagious skin eating virus, she has gonorrhea, and syphilis because of her recent prostitution escapades (she never told me), and her last tooth is decaying. They were married happily and dearly and she won the lotto. He is using the winnings to start a home for abused children and wives: if he leaves her the abused kids and poor housewives have to go back to the monsters that beat them. His only option is swingers that will give him a break...but those damn swingers.....they just won't take exception.

 

Anyhow, as far as screening goes...there is no cut and dried method. I am sure though that if you two are comfortable with meeting friends thats cool. Personally I never went down that road. We always met people from a different area and people outside of our circle of influence. Sometimes freinds or co-workers, etc. change. If you have any type of disagreement then it can make for messy uncomfortable scenes. It never happened to me but I tend to dwell on these type of things for some reason so I never have it a chance.

 

Swinging clubs are of course an alternative. You need to trust the club and use common sense there also. The odds are probably just as slim as friends or online though. Many marriedsinglecheatinghonest guys hang out there too. HMM...MSCH....we can be like the poly's and come up with all kinds of initials...ok MSCH's .

 

It doesn't really matter how you meet someone though. The same rules still apply. Get his phone number, home not cell....call him there....never take a work number or pager.

 

Of course meeting him first, (in a very public place), would be a suggestion. Most guys, though not all, will probably hesitate to give you ALL that information unless he met you also. You need to have lots of conversation before meeting him too...judge him on voice inflection and mannerisms, but be wary that some people are good actors on the phone or online. The first meeting is to tell if the chemistry from the preliminary correspondence and phone calls are accurate.

 

By the time you have gotten this far most of the MSCH guys are weeded out.

 

After the first meeting if you like the guy then get his phone number, address etc.

 

There are a lot of single guys that are totally undesirable and think the net is there magic wand. They figure that if they can only impress you with there charisma and carefully worded e-mails, it won't matter that they smell like a garbage can and don't consider the ability to hold a real conversation, or manners to be of any great importance. So, the first meeting can be disapointing but is very necessary.

 

The "chemistry" part of this pertains to meeting couples too. How many times have you met the "perfect" couple online then the first meeting is a nightmare? Or it never takes place.

 

Swinging clubs existed long before the net and they continue to be the alternative to mail and phone. I remember those seedy magazines that we used. WOW where did they go. I would buy one with a bottle of wine, a pack of zig zags, a pickle loaf, and a Penthouse, thinking the clerk wouldn't notice the MIDWEST SWINGERS magazine..LOL. They were never anything but obvious.

 

Well I got a bit wordy but this beats arguing about shit and thanks for the kind words. John.

[OhioCouple 41]

Let's talk about the damage that the Married Single Cheating Husbands can do. (Hence forth known as MSCH).

 

I wasn't going to relay this here on the board, but there are a few that know about it anyway so what the hell and I am ready to spew it out, which will probably give everyone an understanding of why I SO DETEST MSCH's.

 

During my single years, meaning I was not married, I committed myself to a relationship with a man that I though was *SINGLE*. The guy was good, and I mean REAL GOOD at deception that is.

 

For three years we spent a lot of time together, looked into purchasing a home, vacationed together and had our kids all together for outings. (His kids were much older than mine though.) He treated me like a queen and I fell in love with him. I mean thoroughly totally in love.

 

My world came crashing down one afternoon when his wife....yes his WIFE, THE ONE HE PROMISED TO LOVE HONOR AND CHERISH FOR ALL OF THEIR LIVES, walked into my place of employment with tears in her eyes and the most hurtful look I had ever seen on anyone's face. This woman had more class that day than I think I could have ever have at any point in my lifetime. She took me aside and politely asked me to stop seeing her husband. I was aghast. I had absolutely no clue whatsoever that he was a MSCH. The look on her face will be forever etched in my memories. I was devastated in more ways than one.

 

Needless to say that relationship ended RIGHT THEN AND THERE at that moment on that day. I refused to return the numerous phone calls and haven't seen the man since.

 

His wife gave me all the information that I needed to know in order to believe his lies and deceit on that afternoon. I admire her for her class and how she handled the situation as I don't know that I could have done the same in her shoes. I could have easily been a part of a nasty situation, but I think she saw the devastation and hurt in my eyes too. Not only did his deception hurt his own family, it hurt my entire family. My kids never understood the sudden departure and it is not something I will talk with them about. It is an embarrassment to me for having been so NAIVE.

 

Enough said. If ya wanna fuck around, get a divorce and do it legally.

 

Lori

[TeamSoBe 36]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

I am sure though that if you two are comfortable with meeting friends thats cool. ... We always met people from a different area and people outside of our circle of influence. Sometimes freinds or co-workers, etc. change.

 

We made an intentional decision to move to an area where we can live pretty much right out in the open. South Beach is basically one giant swing club, and we enjoy not having to make a big distinction between our swinger friends and our vertical friends. Most of our vertical friends have a vague impression of how we spend our Saturday nights. That makes meeting single guys in real life much simpler. It also eliminates a lot of the fear of exposure that you have when you get with non-swinger friends.

 

This post won't be very useful for swinging couples who require discretion and who are looking for MFM threesomes. I just wanted to clarify why we prefer to hunt in our friend base. If we went to a swing club then we would find plenty of "single" guys who aren't likely to expose us as swingers, but we don't care about that. We're more concerned about making sure that we're with single guys who actually are single, and who are worthy for some reason other than a simple willingness to fuck. We get that by meeting real people through real friends, not by meeting lone guys at swing clubs.

 

We won't get with single guys in swing clubs. We still have yet to make it to a swing club because our 'normal' nightclubs here are so interesting, but when we eventually do we aren't going anywhere near the single guys there. We have heard many creepy stories of horny married cheaters who head for swing clubs without telling their spouses where they are. The "single" guys with defects more serious than just being married are even less likely to brag about their swing club adventures, which is the really scary part.

[hoopsxx 15]

I've read with interest most of the responses and will read them again, because I want to learn about the perceptions formed of single guys of varying classifications defined by lifestyle couples. Are they really any different than the classifications defined by nonlifestyle couples?

 

I am a single guy in a LTR with a partner who does not want to participate in the lifestyle. We have different values and viewpoints on how one should conduct their life... from being of different backgrounds (she - white Midwestern middle class, me- black urban East Coast middle class) to how we will handle our disabilities as we grow old.

 

So, I'm here to learn about the perceptions and to make sure that I conduct my self in a manner that allows couples to look at me as an individual that will lend credit to the lifestyle as a single person.

 

Thanks for letting me have a say.

[curious24 17]

Quote

Originally posted by TeamSoBe

This post won't be very useful for swinging couples who require discretion and who are looking for MFM threesomes.

you mean to tell me there are couples like this? Wow... I've never found any and that's what I'm looking for! doh!

[curious24 17]

Originally posted by OhioCouple

You bring up a very valid point here. We have run across quite a few of these scams. They present themselves as a single woman, lure you in with what you want to hear and then forward you to their web page. Always a paying one of course. It all goes back to using your head and being cautious when dealing with ads or online connections.

 

Lori

isn't it annoying?

 

BOT tho...

 

what about women who say they are single but are married MSCW i guess you could say.. granted there probably isn't as many as men but i would guess to think that there were some.. are they just as rejected as the guy is in the lifestyle?

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by hoopsxx

I am a single guy in a LTR with a partner who does not want to particpate in the lifestyle.

Hoops,

Ya know I like you as a person, but in all honesty if you are in an LTR then you are cheating if you are playing the swingles game behind her back. I really dislike saying this.....but if your LTR partner doesn't want to participate, then you shouldn't either, no matter your differences or cultural upbringings.

 

Lori

[OhioCouple 41]

Quote

Originally posted by curious24

what about women who say they are single but are married MSCW i guess you could say.. granted there probably isn't as many as men but i would guess to think that there were some.. are they just as rejected as the guy is in the lifestyle?

I am not discounting the fact that there are many, many women out there that are married and cheating on their husbands. I know they are out there. I have seen the dance in person. Women just don't have to advertise it. They are, in my eyes, are just as low as the MSCH.

 

And yes there are MANY of them out there. MSCW that is. I can't really speak for lifestyle swingers, but I can speak for how these type of women are looked at in the *normal* environment and that is just a free piece of ass, nothing else.

[TeamSoBe 36]

Originally posted by hoopsxx

I am a single guy in a LTR with a partner who does not want to particpate in the lifestyle. ... [excuse] ... [excuse] ... [excuse] ... that allows couples to look at me as an individual that will lend credit to the lifestyle as a single person.

 

Holy SMOKES people! I was going to bet on "an hour" when we started the pool on how long it would take for another one to show up, but I was just being sarcastic. I didn't think that it would really happen in an hour. Wow. Somebody owes Lori a quarter, her 72 hour bet was the closest.

 

It's just amazing how many women there are out there who have no idea what their husbands are doing when they sneak into the den to surf the Internet at night.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Teamsobe

 

I am amazed. I wasn't sure if I was seeing things or not. No one seemed to recognize that post.

 

It is making me lose my grip. Am I the only single male true swinger that ever existed? C'mon guys. There are hundreds of trolls that swim this site and don't say shit. Just a few REAL sinlgle males would encourage me. We have heard all the stories about the dreaded single male. Lets have some of you single males that are taking a beating step up and defend yourself.

 

John (the celibate swinger).

[hoopsxx 15]

In response to the thread of this topic...

 

Those in the lifestyle, like those not in the lifestyle will see and hear only a little of what is said and make an assumption... then you will have those that see and ask to understand and then make their predetermined response... then you'll have a very few that will see, ask to understand, and listen to what is said before making an evaluated thoughtout response... guess which one is the hardest to do...

[ATAK 15]

Lets have some of you single males that are taking a beating step up and defend yourself.

 

I'm not sure if this is in defense of my decision to be a part of the lifestyle or not, but I thought I'd put my 2 cents in.

 

I have mentioned previously that I was in the lifestyle several years ago and enjoyed the company of the many friends I had then. I have since been in a LTR with a woman (for the past 6-7) years) and we parted ways about 4-5 months ago. We labored over issues for the past year to year and a half.

 

I found that almost immediately I was able to get back into the dating scene as a vertical single male without any problem whatsoever, which surprised me slightly since I've never really had all that much luck with the ladies as a younger man. My decision to re-enter the lifestyle comes not from a need to get laid, but more for a yearning to make lasting friendships with people like I knew when I lived in Florida. The sex simply adds to the thrill of being in their company and being so relaxed and comfortable with people who think like I do.

 

I used to dance competitively years ago and found that there was a marked difference between dancing with someone you've had sex with and someone you haven't. The comfort level you feel with someone you've had sex with is much higher than with someone who you might be afraid to touch in a certain way or not. That closeness you feel to an individual or couple doesn't allow you the freedom to grab your friend's wife's ass anytime you feel like it, but it does give you a sense of closeness that if you do accidentally brush someone's boob or ass it's not that big a deal. You can wink about it and go on....

 

Every situation is different with everyone you know, but deep down people know the difference between right and wrong, you know when you've stepped over the line with someone after you've had time to get to know them.

 

Making friends in the lifestyle is not about getting a "free piece of ass". I can get a piece of ass just by going to work (DJ-ing). Being in the lifestyle for me means making friendships with people who are open-minded about relationships. That's the cake.....and occasionally, you get to lick the icing...

[ATAK 15]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie

We do have some great single guys around here. The problem is that the ones who aren't necessarily tend to be the more outspoken. And the few that are, don't speak up nearly enough. I think that perhaps the few good ones are scared to speak up for fear of being slammed simply for being a single male regardless. But I think that if they would speak up more often and share their views that the couples here would see which ones really are worth their salt (and worth a lot more than a dime a dozen

 

Herein lies the problem....It's a Catch 22. How are couples to know which ones are the bad apples that are outspoken and the "diamonds in the rough" that are just now speaking out?

 

Some may think that because I'm new and I happen to post alot that I'm one of the annoying obnoxious guys that only want a "free piece of ass"(I before E thing fixed in this post) On the other hand, some may read my thoughts and decide that I'm one of the "diamonds". How are people to know the difference? Even the simplest slimeballs know to say the right thing at the right time if it gets them what they want...

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by ATAK

How are people to know the difference? Even the simplest slimeballs know to say the right thing at the right time if it gets them what they want...

In my experience over the last year or so, the *chingles* (aka cheating single married men) expose themselves without fail. Some are readily transparent and others are can cover it up longer until a topic reaches something that they just can't keep themselves out of and they step all over their own feet.

 

Personally, after all we have learned this past year, we would never seek out a single from a club or online ads. I have been told that you are better off to look in your own backyard (for lack of better terms) than seeking to do so in a club or through ads.

 

As a woman who has the desire to have a *traditional* MFM and even though my husband has agreed to this, it will not happen until they not only pass my husbands idea of what he thinks is a good person to welcome into our relationship, but they have my criteria to pass also. Mine comes from all of the reading I have done and watching the quote supposedly *nice single guys* bury themselve in a few short months, exposing themselves as married men.

 

As much as I used to desire to play in an MFM, that has totally waned. It is going to take one heck of a special man to ever spark that fantasy again. One that I am sure is not just out for cheap thrills and a piece on the side. They can get a prostitue for that, I'll not be theirs.

 

So, in answer to your question...one ever really knows, but I think that the more that people get to know you as an individual and discover your true intents, the true single males can do well in this lifestyle and have so much more than those that are out there cheating have ever had. Not to mention you may even meet upon a swinging single woman and become a couple.

 

Lori

[ATAK 15]

Quote

Not to mention you may even meet upon a swinging single woman and become a couple.

That is also a factor in my decision to be in the lifestyle, although it's not the driving force. But I'd really like to meet a lady with same interests.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Originally posted by ATAK

Herein lies the problem....It's a Catch 22. How are couples to know which ones are the bad apples that are outspoken and the "diamonds in the rough" that are just now speaking out?

 

Some may think that because I'm new and I happen to post alot that I'm one of the annoying obnoxious guys that only want a "free piece of ass"(I before E thing fixed in this post) On the other hand, some may read my thoughts and decide that I'm one of the "diamonds". How are people to know the difference? Even the simplest slimeballs know to say the right thing at the right time if it gets them what they want...

 

It's not a catch-22 really. What it comes down to is that it's not about whether or not you speak, but what you say when you do. As Lori said, the bad apples tend to expose themselves rather quickly.

[hoopsxx 15]

The most recent responses on this subject have been very thoughtful, thought provoking and seem to come from the heart. The care put forth shows it is more than physical attraction that makes any encounter pleasant for all involved, eliminating the dime a dozen stigma.

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by BostonDLT

....that applies to all aspects of our lives, imho. Anytime we allow people to see who we are, how we feel about a variety of topics, and what our intentions are...we get closer to our goals.

You have hit the hammer on the head.

 

We judge all of our relationships swinging and non on the individual as a whole.

 

Something that is really odd is that the only people we really question are those that give us reason to. Phonies are so laughingly transparent. Being the good guys that we are, we will give them every opportunity to convince us otherwise just in case they might be part of the minute scale of people that are exceedingly backwards. I can honestly say, we haven't been proved wrong yet in either environment.

 

Mrs. O

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

I can't say that I can see why a single guy would ever get involved in the lifestyle.

 

It is so pointless.

 

All you have hope to do is have a meaningless intense sexually charged, orgasmic, fluid filled, oh i see now.

[jamesdean 15]

Hi Everyone,

 

This is my first post here so I shall begin by giving a synopsis of who I am , why I swing, and issues I have encountered. I am 41, hold a advanced degree, am considered above average in looks.

 

I entered the "lifestyle" after being laid up(I wish like that :-P) after a car accident in 1998 for 3 yrs. As recently as last week, have had spinal surgery(6th one) and I just didn't believe I was ready/able for a lasting relationship.

 

My experiences in swinging with couples has been nothing but great. I am respectful, aware of other's desires, and of course highly sexual. The best part about swinging to me is the almost universal acceptance of people as they are without the usual mainstream judgments.

The stereotype of the "dime a dozen single guy" infuriated me initially but I have come to realize that issue arises out ignorance. Singles ignore the fact regardless of what we/I may say, some people have that thought permanently etched in their heads. I'll give you an analogy. "DO you like anchovies?" "Hell no!""Have you ever tried them?" "Well no, but I don't like them anyway." That's the mentality many couples have towards us singles. They have never tried to open themselves up to meet with any of us. Even if that's not their preference, I suggest meeting a few of us at parties or just out and about. Heck maybe you could play matchmaker and help those of us who may want to be in a relationship meet the lady of our dreams.! :-0

 

Folks I have endured in the last 5 yrs more pain, more hours of introspective thoughts on life, more self -doubt than I ever, ever thought one could endure. I have come to realize my life is no more difficult, easy,unfair than almost everyone I ever meet, anywhere. We all have stories, challenges, desires to tell,overcome or achieve.

 

I have had great fun in this lifestyle because I am an open book to those I develop friendships, playtimes with. It literally has been a saving grace for me and has filled a physical as well as an emotional need for me. Discount those who "label" you, and chalk it up to ignorance. Ignorance is different than stupidity. Ignorance is devoid of fact/understanding. Stupidity to me is having facts/understanding and hurtfully spewing ill feelings/thoughts.

 

Anyway to end move on if you meet someone who does not fill a need/desire for you here. Understand they are a living being too with feelings. Give ALL the INITIAL benefit of the doubt because you may be unaware of the reason why one is single. Whether it be circumstance or by choice(even if it's temporary)

 

In search of my life partner now,

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

You have addressed many issues Dean.

 

Welcome aboard. One thing that I will suggest though. People that have no interest in meeting a single guy never will. It is not the guy, it is just that they don't prefer one. That is OK cuz some couples seek them.

 

Don't focus on trying to convince couples that "if they only met the right one" cuz it doesn't matter. They are not interested and they have every right not to be.

 

But as a single swinger you seem to have lots of consideration for the lifestyle and respect for people that you may run into, obviously many, so keep going at it.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

Welcome aboard. One thing that I will suggest though. People that have no interest in meeting a single guy never will. It is not the guy, it is just that they don't prefer one. That is OK cuz some couples seek them.

 

Don't focus on trying to convince couples that "if they only met the right one" cuz it doesn't matter. They are not interested and they have every right not to be.

 

But as a single swinger you seem to have lots of consideration for the lifestyle and respect for people that you may run into, obviously many, so keep going at it.

 

Great point John (as usual). The argument that if you only gave single guys a chance sounds to me an awful lot like...

"Well, of you course you aren't bi, you never tried it."

 

If I'm not interested in trying something that doesn't mean I need to try it to prove that I won't like it. It has nothing to do with not liking it but with the fact that I have no desire to find out if I will or not.

 

All that said, we do play with single guys and yes single guys in and of themselves are a dime a dozen. But a good single guy that's worth swinging with, well he's worth his weight in gold... but it takes digging through a whole lot of dimes to find him.

[BradAndJanet 70]

Quote

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

Welcome aboard. One thing that I will suggest though. People that have no interest in meeting a single guy never will. It is not the guy, it is just that they don't prefer one. That is OK cuz some couples seek them.

 

Don't focus on trying to convince couples that "if they only met the right one" cuz it doesn't matter. They are not interested and they have every right not to be.

 

But as a single swinger you seem to have lots of consideration for the lifestyle and respect for people that you may run into, obviously many, so keep going at it.

I will say one thing. Because of our first experience we have been reluctant to try another single guy, although finding another man for J to play with is our primary motivation. But, you, ATAK, curious24 and other single males here (I'm sorry if I missed somebody!) have made us start to consider looking through that pile of "dimes" again. Thanks.

[wereinheat 15]

I think couples should be candid and tell the single guys what they actually like and dislike about the approaches. I have some suggestions if any singles care to hear. I was single not long ago then got married and became Hot2trot. Let me know guys if you are interested. If not I will keep my opinions to myself.

[jamesdean 15]

Sorry about my post earlier if anyone thought I was trying to encourage ANYONE to meeting a single guy if that's not their desire. I was talking to those people who ARE looking to meet single males. I don't like when people insist I must do anything, so to finalize my thoughts on this I shall again say. Sorry if anyone gleaned that from my earlier post. As far as anyone who wishes to chat and heck who knows what will come of it, I am open to start a dialogue. I've enjoyed reading the comments and I thank all those that write for sharing. I know, I know, sounds a bit wimpy but it gives me comfort knowing there is a whole world of people with a similar lifestyle.

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

Quote

Originally posted by jamesdean

Sorry about my post earlier if anyone thought I was trying to encourage ANYONE to meeting a single guy if that's not their desire. I was talking to those people who ARE looking to meet single males. I don't like when people insist I must do anything, so to finalize my thoughts on this I shall again say. Sorry if anyone gleaned that from my earlier post. As far as anyone who wishes to chat and heck who knows what will come of it, I am open to start a dialogue. I've enjoyed reading the comments and I thank all those that write for sharing. I know, I know, sounds a bit wimpy but it gives me comfort knowing there is a whole world of people with a similar lifestyle. 

 

No need to apologize but your comments are appreciated. We all have ideas that change as times do. Our own times included. Swinging has taken on a new dimension thanks to Julie's swingersboard and many people including yours truly have reconsidered many things.

 

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

[curiousagain 326]

So much to say about so many things but I will try to keep it as short as possible. I certainly don't think I can speak for all single males and while my experience is probably limited in comparison to many of you, I would like to express my humble opinion on a few things.

 

First of all thanks for asking that couples not interested in single males respond to any of this. Those who express a distate for wine shouldn't be judges at a wine contest. And, not everybody likes licorice, but those that do like it a lot.

 

As for me, I have been on swing internet sites for about 9 months now and have met a lot of different people. In couples and single females, I have made some friends and met some people I don't want to meet again. I have had my invitations accepted and asked back, and I have been turned down. I have accepted invitations and turned others down. As my profile says "Nothing personal". I know not everyone is that way but I don't want to get naked and have sex with people I don't like as a person and trust. Sue me

 

Some couples want a single male once in a while and some on a regular basis. Some only play with a single male because the female is jealous of another female. Some husbands enjoy MFM because like me they are voyeuristic and exhibitionistic and are not jealous. Some do it because it takes a two to one ratio to do a DP. Some just enjoy seeing their wife have a great time without jealousy issues. Some couples enjoy both types of threesomes but have found that single females tend to get emotional issues more quickly and more often than single men, hence some females of a couple having jealousy issues.

 

While I think about it, I was married to a serial cheater for many years. I have turned down couples when I found out one or both were married but not to the other half of the "couple". I don't judge you but I don't want to be an accessory either. If you are having sex with others with your spouses knowledge and consent, you are not a cheater. If you are having sex with others without and probably against your spouses knowledge and consent you are a cheater. That's all I have to say about that.

 

Am I here for the sex? In a word YES!! But, not just sex. Any single male that a couple considers for a threesome is going to be attractive, poised, intelligent, and personable enough to get plenty of one on one action in "real life". Most of the sex I have is one on one sex with non swinging single females I meet elsewhere. But, I am here for the same reasons the couples are, relatively strings free, safe, recreational sex usually of a voyeuristic/exhibitionistic nature, and time with like minded individuals who don't judge us by a different set of values than the ones we live by. When I leave a couples house after an evening of sex, conversation, and assorted good times, I don't have to think about how long to wait before calling or "how has this changed our relationship" etc. They will call me when they want to play again, simple as that. Perfect example here, a female friend I have sex with when she wants to, told me recently that sex with me was great but she wasn't in love with me and she was having guilt problems because she was having great sex with someone she didn't love. I can't imagine a swinger telling me that. So, now I can't have sex with her without feeling guilty for making her feel guilty, sheeeesh. She took something that had been very pleasurable and made it a drama laden psychoanalyzed activity. No wonder single men flock to these sites and the clubs.

 

I am not in a threesome to steal a wife, show someone how to do it, prove anything, or be a stunt cock, (or is that stunk cock?), I am there to enjoy the same things the couples are there for. If I ever find a single female I fall in love with, I hope she is into swinging. If she isn't I will live with it. If she is, I will remember being a single male in the lifestyle and not judge people as bad just because they are a single male. Will I "share" my wife, I hope so as I would enjoy seeing her doing the same things I have seen other wives do and I would be just as accepting.

 

I apologize if I have rambled.

Play safe, it's a big world out there.

[butterfly29 15]

I think that there are more single guys trying to get into the lifestyle that are not as honest. At the club we frequent, there is a gentleman that had a female companion for many years, and she moved away. He is still welcome at this club. However, he has not behaved as appropriately as one should.....

[Menos50 15]

Wow, pretty hard core here... Traditionally, any married person who has sex with another who isn't their spouse is cheating, whether they have permission, or are in the presence of their spouse, so now let's talk about the degree of cheating.

 

Is a man who otherwise loves and cherishes their spouse , but who is unfulfilled in their sex life, and who goes out side of the marriage for that fulillment a less moral person? Some whould say yes, but most of the population would say that both are equally at fault.

 

What we should really be addressing is that some sincere bond of trust needs to be established for the single male to be allowed into the sex play of the couple. And that a significant component of that must be that the non spousal male must understand his place in the relationship...primarily that he is there for the purpose of bringing heightened pleasure to the couples sex play. If he is there for any other purpose on his part, then he is in the wrong.

 

This is presupposing that the couple is evenly balanced in their sexual need and desire and that they are truly swinging for their mutual enjoyment which is rarely the case. For just as most couples have varying sex drives, and are frequently doing this for their spouse's desires, isn't this fact is surely carried over into the swinging lifestyle as well. There are too many permutations in married relationships to go into here, but they are all alive and well in the "swinging" communtiy as well. So to say that the "evil cheating" single male is a bad commodity is only a relative designation, but one with which he is gored most gleefully by these other moral relativists called "swinging couples".

 

So I therefore suggest that we back off the mud slinging and rather discuss the true difficulty in interpersonal relationships on such intimate levels that include ones sexuality.

 

If single males are relegated to a dark corner from which the elite swinging couple sometimes lowers themselves to select from, then there can never be a fair and balanced quality of relationship because it is prejudged that he is of lesser status. And who of reasonable self worth would set himself within this framework? Wouldn't they truely then be men that no one would reasonably want to be with, in an intimate setting?

 

It's so very hard to have it both ways in this worldly existence we lead.

 

So look down your nose at single males of what ever declination, but aren't you also failing to see yourselves with retrospect?

[Paphian 16]

Wow, pretty hard core here... Traditionally, any married person who has sex with another who isn't their spouse is cheating, whether they have permission, or are in the presence of their spouse, so now let's talk about the degree of cheating.

 

Um... huh? Cheating is usually defined as having a sexual (or even simply a deep emotional) relationship with another without the knowledge and agreement of one's spouse. Where'd ya come up with this other idea?

 

Is a man who otherwise loves and cherishes their spouse , but who is unfulfilled in their sex life, and who goes out side of the marriage for that fulillment a less moral person? Some whould say yes, but most of the population would say that both are equally at fault.

 

Less moral? Yes. As I've said before on this board, it's the lying and disrespect that's the real issue. Most of what population?

 

What we should really be addressing is that some sincere bond of trust needs to be established for the single male to be allowed into the sex play of the couple. And that a significant component of that must be that the non spousal male must understand his place in the relationship...primarily that he is there for the purpose of bringing heightened pleasure to the couples sex play. If he is there for any other purpose on his part, then he is in the wrong.

 

It's addressed all the time, successfully, within the context of the single male truly being what he is representing himself as being: single. Not married-and-cheating.

 

This is presupposing that the couple is evenly balanced in their sexual need and desire and that they are truly swinging for their mutual enjoyment which is rarely the case.

 

Not at all rare in my experience, either as a swinging couple in the past or as a swinging single male, now.

 

For just as most couples have varying sex drives, and are frequently doing this for their spouse's desires, isn't this fact is surely carried over into the swinging lifestyle as well.

 

It's not the "drive level" that's at issue. It's the approach to sex as something other than exclusive to a marriage. If one member of a couple is consistently "taking one for the team", in the sense that one person has no desire to swing and is doing it only to try and preserve the relationship, then I can pretty much guarantee you that that couple will not long be swinging.

 

There are too many permutations in married relationships to go into here, but they are all alive and well in the "swinging" communtiy as well. So to say that the "evil cheating" single male is a bad commodity is only a relative designation, but one with which he is gored most gleefully by these other moral relativists called "swinging couples".

 

You've been sliding your definition of a "single male" all over the place, and assuming that most swingers also do the same. Life does not imitate your mind (it imitates mine, but that's not relevant to this discussion... ). For most of us, singles and couples, a "single male" or "single female" is exactly what one would think: a person not currently married or in any other relationship with another, and who is therefore free to participate. Anyone participating without the knowledge and consent of a spouse (or any other partner having an expectation of exclusivity) is not "single"; they're cheating.

 

There's no moral relativism here, as you contend. The majority of swingers of all sorts expect that those who are going to swing with them are either: 1) truly single and therefore free to consent or 2) participating as a mutually consenting partnership of some sort. The only "moral relativism" I see here is in your implied idea that anyone having sex with anyone else outside of the typical one-on-one situation has already violated some idea of yours about what "morally pure" sex is all about, and therefore, should have no compunction about violating any other moral or ethical "standard". Frankly, in my experience (and apparently in that of many other participants here) many swingers have a clearly defined moral standard: they simply require "informed consent" for anyone that they will swing with, and anyone who is a party potentially effected by it (as in a spouse who may choose not to swing). I've known couples where only one of the two participated: and where a telephone call or face-to-face discussion with the party who did not swing (in order to confirm their consent and agreement) was no problem whatsoever. The important point is that all affected are freely choosing what transpires.

 

 

So I therefore suggest that we back off the mud slinging and rather discuss the true difficulty in interpersonal relationships on such intimate levels that include ones sexuality.

 

If single males are relegated to a dark corner from which the elite swinging couple sometimes lowers themselves to select from, then there can never be a fair and balanced quality of relationship because it is prejudged that he is of lesser status. And who of reasonable self worth would set himself within this framework? Wouldn't they truely then be men that no one would reasonably want to be with, in an intimate setting?

 

It's so very hard to have it both ways in this worldly existence we lead.

 

So look down your nose at single males of what ever declination, but aren't you also failing to see yourselves with retrospect?

 

There's damn little mudslinging here at any single who represents himself or herself truthfully and doesn't otherwise act like an ass. As a married person of either gender that represents as "single" is not representing truthfully, most all the contentions you raise here are, quite simply, moot. It's quite obvious that the majority of people who regularly participate here see themselves very clearly, both on a day-to-day basis as well as retrospectively, and quite clearly and consistently explain their viewpoint.

[Spoomonkey 421]

I'll just Dito Paphian on this one...

 

However, I'll add this: Cheat - To violate rules deliberately, as in a game.

 

We are playing within the boundaries of the rules that we, as a couple, have agreed on. We are NOT cheating according to any definition of the word. It is not simply a matter of degrees...

 

Your lack of understanding on this simple word put the rest of your post in the context of "this guy just doesn't get it."

[cumhungrycouple 15]

Surely a divorced/separated etc single male swinger is far more attractive as a single male to couples than a guy new or just been the single male?

 

He will be more sensitive, understanding and relaxed swinging with a couple(s). We wouldn't go for "normal single guys" who had no or little experience. surely clubs should differentiate between those that have long time experience and new inexperienced single swingers!

 

and for single female swingers surely a guy that has done it before is more suitable than a newbie???

 

it's a harsh old world

[macissmart 15]

John - my first step in here - I agree with what you say - take my situation mid fifties, married for 29 years - she was never really very excited about sex, seemed to enjoy it but was never really "hey, lets go do it kind of girl. A little adventurous but not real. I will say no cheating but maybe I just wasn't the best husband, now see things I could have done better, Kids say "Dad, best thing that happened you really deserve someone better. My thoughts were the best thing to do would be to get involved in and around the lifestyle feeling somewhere there is a gal who for various reasons is going to leave her husband, and/or sad to say people die. If I meet a gal through this venue we would have a much better approach and understanding about sex and have a great start as a new couple. So I would like to go to a club and just get to know people but all this stigma of "Single Males" has me a little wary. Thanks,

 

 

John.