Are we both being greedy?

[KinkyKat 25]

Hello Everyone

 

I have come here in hopes that we can get some direction or advice and I will attempt to make this to the point.

 

History:

 

*Met through group sex and casual sex (just us two) and

* Both have had multiple sex partners in our past, and both have had lots of group sex (separate as single people.)

*I ,while still single had sex with him (mfmm ) and as time went on We became great friends and lovers for over 7 yrs. now.

*Both of us like to have the excitement of new experiences sexually, Although we just can't come to the agreement of how.

*I enjoy mfm or mmf , he enjoys fmf or mff.

*I really do not much of any desire to be with him and another woman.

*He says that if I give to him what he wants first fmf , then I can have my mfm with him second.

 

He is firm that when we first met (didn't know each other outside the bedroom) that I have aready had my mfm with him and now 7 yrs later I owe it to him to participate in a fmf with him.

He says that I am not going to 'get' what I want until he gets his first basically.

He make comments like its never going to happen and that you ony live once and what am I waiting for and why don't I set it up(fmf)

He says that I do not have the confidence to attract a woman and all I can attract is butchy woman , not a hot one cause I am so insecure.

 

ok

 

So to sum it up I feel that I am being made to feel that I owe it to him and that our swinging adventures will never be a shared experience, cause I feel that I would be taking one for the team.

 

Are we both being greedy?

We do want each other to have fun!

 

I suggested that we meet a couple first or maybe we should swing separately or just a big group

 

I know we should just forget about it, because we both have different views.

 

Thanks for listening and if anyone has been in a simular circumstances and worked it out,I will share it with him to read too.

 

bye for now,

 

kk

[flkeyscouple 21]

I don't think anyone should ever 'take one for the team'. Have you considered finding a couple and the four of you can do a bunch of arrangements? FMF, MFM, MFFM, etc. However, if we were the couple you'd want to be with and we knew the situation, we wouldn't want to be involved - too much drama for us.

 

Good luck.

 

Sarah

[Gladiola4u 16]

I don't think anyone should ever 'take one for the team'. Have you considered finding a couple and the four of you can do a bunch of arrangements? FMF, MFM, MFFM, etc. However, if we were the couple you'd want to be with and we knew the situation, we wouldn't want to be involved - too much drama for us.

 

Good luck.

 

Sarah

 

Dito

[daisy girl 34]

Sounds like he is trying to manipulate you into doing something you don't feel comfortable doing.

[sexyshelby 19]

Dito to all above.

 

You need to have a serious talk with him about this situation. It seems to me that he is being childish and selfish, and maybe you are a little too? Do some thinking about what you both really want out of this relationship and decide what is the most important: sexual freedom or your relationship.

 

~SS

[knottyboi 15]

Personally, he sounds like a dick. Why should he go "first" anyway? Maybe he should get his FMF with two other women and you should get your MFM with two other men, especially if neither one of you want the arrangement the other is desiring.

 

Also, as a person who thinks butches are hot, that's damned insulting that he says you are too insecure to actually attract hot women. In my experience, it takes a lot more self-confidence to actually go after those butch women (and all butch women aren't the stereotypical mullet and flannel-wearing rednecks!) than straight-looking feminine Barbies.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

... I feel that I am being made to feel that I owe it to him and that our swinging adventures will never be a shared experience, cause I feel that I would be taking one for the team.

 

 

That about sums it up. You have already answered your own question.

[prettylady 221]

(and all butch women aren't the stereotypical mullet and flannel-wearing rednecks!) than straight-looking feminine Barbies.

 

 

I resemble that remark.

 

Although flannel is my material of choice on a cold winters night, I don't walk around looking like a Lumberjack.

I am a self concious female, tiny, cute, wide eyed, innocent. But I can kick the Sh** out of anyone who gets in the ring with me.

Don't fret my friend, there are butchy women who are beautiful.

But that is completly irrelevent here.

Your confidence is not going to improve with your man telling you crap like that.

Something is going to give here and that is not good. Someone is going to do something they are going to regret and girlfriend it is looking like it is going to be you.

take it from me, regrets suck. I have plenty(the whole ex husband beating you down until you think you are good for nothing kinda thing).

Stand your ground now because if you give into his desires with out fulfilling yours then he "owns" your ass.

Keep in mind there is always a little give and take in a relationship, but this does not feel like one of those times.

I like the idea of a couple swing, then everyone can have what they want that very day.

No harm no foul.

Your friend,

Prettylady

[KinkyKat 25]

Hello,

 

Thank you everyone for your replies, you have helped me to re-think and also acknowledge that I did answer my own question!

I am lacking confidence in my own judgement and decisions cause yes ,too dramatic for me too and gets stressful as well. I just thought I'd put my senerio out there to get perspective.

 

I know that our 'relationship' will more than likely not be able to enjoy the fun of swinging together or apart and still be committed to each other.

 

Actually the way that I have been treated in our attempts and conversations does not lead to me to feel warm & fuzzy. I attempted to have several woman join us but really my heart wasn't in it cause I was feeling pressured to 'pick-op and felt that that was only for his benefit.and therefore they probably picked up on it.

 

Actually I did enjoy doing some kissing and flirting with those few women, but then he wasn't too pleased that they were not 'hot' and they were more interested in just me. See I must be mixed up cause I would be into being with a woman alone before sharing with him cause I think I may be critisized.

 

I do feel guilty that I am being greedy, and it does require 'give & take' even though I heard that you must give first ,it doesn't apply to 'us'

[sexcupid 809]

Maybe I'm just evil, but I would be of the mind to tell him to f*ck off. *lmao*

 

Seriously though, if you have tried to set up the scenario he wants and is not happy with the women you have picked then maybe he needs to pick. Of course, he basically insulted you by saying you aren't confident enough/hot enough to pick up someone he thinks is hot...well, I would then still be inclined to respond the same way as the beginning of this message.

 

You should be made to feel like you "owe" someone something. My SO and I have had that conversation a few times. If you are willing to do something for me (ie: MMF or MMMMMMMMF ) I do not want to be made to feel like after it's over with, that I now "owe" you the same experience.

 

You all might be better playing separately, if at all.

 

Good luck!

 

Maria

[catslaughing 45]

/honest opinion on

I think you should tell him to go to hell. if he objects, tell him to FOAD.

/honest opinion off

[Cpl2share 147]

A mans opinion here:

 

Tell him to F*** himself. We all are a bit greedy when it comes to life, but he is stepping over the line. I love Mrs. Cpl. and would not consider giving her this type of "ultimatum". If it were truly about the two of you (as swinging is suppose to be) then he would be willing to share the enjoyment. I think that he is just being possesive and does not deserve a woman who is as open as you appear to be.

[ANGEDKY(mr) 100]

You sound like you're beat down on the inside.........

[ohash01 20]

To be completely honest with you, I see only 2 truly good and safe options here:

 

1) Forget the swinging...either forever...or until he grows the hell up. Which - could be never. Whenever he brings it up, you just need to say "no way, jose! We're done for now." And be sure he knows that he has stressed you out to the point of not wanting to swing anymore.

 

2) Forget HIM. Move on.

 

From what you said, he seems to be a very controlling individual. What if he switches from just being controlling about the swinging to trying to be controlling about everything?

 

Being with another woman can be absolutely wonderful...but ONLY if you're into that. If you're not, then don't do it. Not for him. You'll only feel like crap afterwards.

[sereneiders 263]

I don't feel I have enough grounds to provide advice here... moreover, that most of the swingers who started as a vanilla couple whose relatiohsip evolved into swinging have so few in common with a relationship where both parties meet engaging in grupal recreational sex (thus, both know each other may have the right to turn swinging into a requirement for the relationship to work, as opposed as what happens when you start as a vanilla couple where such a requirement would be an off topic), as to be able to extrapolate our experiences.

 

But...

 

Personally, he sounds like a dick. Why should he go "first" anyway?

 

I agree. "He sounds like a dick", however, what we have here is the way the OP makes him sound, and we're not hearing both bells here. The point is, if he were sounding like a dick so often, then... why hey have a 7 years old relationship togheter?

 

It doesn't seems to me that a relationship where both were entitled to have sex with others from the scratch would allow any of them to impose restrictions on those meetings, nor to act too childish wich each other, as to "ask to go first", unless there were something else in the background we're not being aware of.

 

So, the question Why should he go "first" anyway? remains, but it is a genuine one, perhaps from someone who one way or another is feeling he already took one -or many- for the team and is stepping over the brake to set up a limit (so, the OP could be looking for an argument to overcome this limit?).

 

So, KinkyKat, why do you think he's asking to go "first" anyway?

[Tybee Swing 286]

Hi KinkyKat,

 

What kind of a relationship do you have with this man? It wasn't clear. Is it mostly a booty call, longterm fuck buddy relationship, more than anything else? Or, are you both in love, are you really committed to each other, are you planning a life together? Do you have a bond that runs deep on other levels outside of sex?

 

If you wonder these things yourself, it might be time to re-evaluate the whole thing and ask yourself if you're really all that compatible. The reason I suggest this is because of his selfishness and the way he is demanding sexual things from you that you don't want. True love doesn't include ultimatums or "twisting your arm" to get his way. He would want your happiness.

 

Actually the way that I have been treated in our attempts and conversations does not lead to me to feel warm & fuzzy. I attempted to have several woman join us but really my heart wasn't in it cause I was feeling pressured to 'pick-op and felt that that was only for his benefit.and therefore they probably picked up on it.

 

I'll bet they did. They not only picked up on the fact that you weren't into it, but also on the fact that he's a pushy bastard who was pressuring you into something you didn't want to do.

 

See I must be mixed up cause I would be into being with a woman alone before sharing with him cause I think I may be critisized.

 

It sounds like you're on pins and needles with this man. If I was expecting to be criticized after giving him an FMF, I'd be reluctant, too. Anybody would. Don't be mixed up...I don't think you are confused. I think you're clear on what's going on here. Just give yourself permission to think about all of this. You deserve to be treated well. We all do.

 

Many women wait around for years for a man like this to magically start loving, respecting and valuing them. If he hasn't treated you the way you want after 7 years, maybe it's time to re-think this whole 'relationship'?

 

Hugs and best wishes to you.

[KinkyKat 25]

Hello

kinda long...

 

I wanted to repond by saying that I did talk to my partner of 7 yrs. and told him of me posting on this board and welcomed him to read what I have written or to post his own response, and that maybe that we would even open up the communication between he and I on how to both be able to move on and be on the same page so we both are turned on.

 

He says that I was a swinger before I met him (I say thats not swinging I was single woman having group fun) and he the same! He just happened to be included in the group of men I was having fun (sex) with at that time. he was having group sex with women too.so who cares?

I didn't even know him,(gee that sounds good eh?) he was Just a participant in a group sex senerio with me and others on a few occassions.

 

It wasn't like "ok KinkyKat, I'll participate in this session with you and other men, but hey I expect in return that you return the favor with a group of females! I woud have told him "I'll pass "cause I was a free agent and so is he and that he could have easily been with himself and group of woman instead .So why the heck was he participating with other men to have sex with a woman if he didn't want to (we didn't even know one another! Everyone was there and having fun , no one was taking one for the team! (not once did the other men who I was having group sex with ever ask me to "return the favor. Didn't need to, cause they knew they could anytime FREELY go participate with a group of women rather then being with me and other men.

Like it wasn't an issue, just fun.

 

So we actually believe it or not we started to date(nice diners, being romantic) but no committment. Then he asked for a committment, that if we wanted to have sex with others that the other would be there or it just woudn't be happening. So Me being single for so long (just dedicated to my family and my carreer) I wasn't egar to be committed relationship, but as time went by and spending everyday together talking and getting to know one another I found a good friend and I was well not exactly single anymore. He met my family and we got intamate on a emotional level, he was my lover & friend.

Thats when this all came out when he knew that I was attached to him that he got REALLY demanding and started to pressure me to have sex with him and groups of women or woman. Using the 'well I did it for you! '

The thing is he DIDN"T do it for ME!!!!

He didn't even KNOW me!!!! He was participating of his own free will!

 

So he thinks he should go FIRST.

 

I suggested that he has his fantasys and I have mine and what TURNs us on is different senerios, but there is probably a way that we could have excitement and enjoy them AND still be together fullfied.

So thats why I came to the board. Two people together, each wanting something different when it come to what turns us ON besides being Hot for each other.

 

I sucked his you know what with another woman before, Wow, no big deal, but it did not turn me on,(but sucking it with another man, that would be WOW but only for me )and I do not know how to put this but this other woman who was clearly not his type but hey he organized it (remember HOT woman only) it is so confusing.

 

So going out to gay/esbian/open minded bars, me and this women started kissing at the bar (he picked her out and asked me to approach her, but she then turned to me and said I am not into couples after our flirting) He was not happy (even throgh he picked her out from the crowd!) Then I was just being my friendly self and other women wanted to talk to me, and that happens, and I got critisized on more than one occassion for only being able to attract sorry, butchy women and that I am insecure and not able to attract hot women

He says "that ANY woman can go out and get a bunch of men to f--- her, Men will do that, they don't care, BUT it takes an espesically Hot man to attract group of women" and in that way he is more 'special' than me!

So.....

today I said to him that I am interested in finding excitement with him with something that we are Both equally motivated to do, there HAS to be something other than all or nothing, like a couple ,where he can have his fun with other woman and I could have a different experience too with the other half of couple and then we both coud be having fun, but he still insists that he be FIRST!! (fmf or ffm)

 

Yes we have Both have had lots of free group sex, but have not been that free with one another. We probably shoud have known this was going to be an issue. It wasn't like we got together under 'normal' dating environment.

We were both swingers (his label) now with limits, and from going from doing whatever turned you on TO do what turns me on and I am not open to exploring what coud turn us Both on.

Therefore , swingers turned vanella, its the reverse and It may be harder to communicate then if you started being in relationship and then introduced swinging to each other and exporing new frontier together.

I do want him to be fullfilled ,me too, but I do not like this titfortat thinking.

 

He said "oh that board is for the women thinking that they rule the way it going to be." "And you are going to listen to what other people say"

I told him to read the post and repond . I told him that some people swing and it destroys their relationship,and that this group here swings and have the experience of swinging TOGETHER where EVERYONE is happy so this board would be expert, and it is different then being single and "swinging" I don't see how it could be compared.

 

"I'm first, you owe me," this is crazy.

 

I hope I made sense, I just don't know what to do, cause I like to be naughty and so does he and it would be exciting to be naughty together.

 

I thank you for reading this if you got this far. Yes everything is dramatic, but having free sex wasn't when I participated in it.

 

ps. ( he reminds me of his prior longterm reationship where he said lead to him cheating cause she wasn't open to swinging. I just said to him today, well how did you approach her on it, the same way you approaching me now? Where I want to be with you and another women, but no other males are allowed? I said no wonder she wasn't open to 'it')

 

bye for now,

 

kinkykat

[KinkyKat 25]

hello

 

I just thought I would update.

Through LOTS more talk,

the one who goes 'first' has been resolved

 

We were being very tit-for-tat with one another, very emotional and dramatic.

Sereneiders - mysef & he now understands the "me first" mindset is not in the best interest for US, and it was holding us back from additional fun times & pleasure.

 

We cannot compare our single swinger days to swingers activities in our future, it is NOT the same thing. We know, its how we met!

 

So...

We have both come to a great conculusion and we are both looking forward to and excited, both of us would like, be turned on to sharing US with another US for FUN.

 

We were both being stubborn and a bit childish in our way of thinking.

We have discussed this and are Both open to adventure(s) Together!!

Yipee, Finally!

It kinda like a couple who were swinging together and then stop for a while (7 yrs ) ony the compete opposite. Its not that I've won ,it like now we have Both won. Cause now when we are out or just open to the Same adventure it makes it sooo much more fun to imagine!

Finally .. these talks have done so much for US .I am truly amazed and excited (the process of coming to the same page has been good for us aas a couple.

 

Who would have thought that two singles who were driven for swinger sex proir to becoming a pair would have these issues. Totally backwards. But now its like we Are moving forward and We are both very horny about our joint decision And feel closer too.

 

I do love him very much, and this strain of refraining from this type of excitement has been finally conculded. Resolving this issue has done something wonderful in our communication and respect for each other.

 

bye for now,

KinkyKat

[Swing*8701 887]

Sex should never be a debt, even if agreed upon at the time.--Susan.

[subtoMistressT 22]

Kinky Kat, good job. Glad to hear you talked it out. That is the only way to make it work in this scene.

[montresor 19]

He says that I do not have the confidence to attract a woman and all I can attract is butchy woman , not a hot one cause I am so insecure.

 

A little late in the thread with this thought, and maybe beside the point just a bit, but I just read the posts. There's always so much to read here! (Julie -- ever do a general word count on the site?)

 

My playpal is a plus-sized butchy woman, big, bountiful and very horny, comfortable with all combinations of gender one-on-one or in groups of varying sizes. She constantly has women hitting on her ranging from butch like her to cute and petite to drop-dead-gorgeous model types. Satisfies those she chooses to be with beyond their expectations too. One could do worse than to put herself in the hands of a skilled, passionate butch gal!

 

Just for the fashion record, she doesn't wear the plaid lumberjack shirts and Timberland work boots, she's more like a goth butch, short curly black hair, black T-shirt, black jeans, black Doc Martens, and a couple of intriguing piercings that are revealed when the clothes come off...