Our teenager has found out about our lifestyle

[gatorvol64 216]

We aren't sure if we are asking advice or just venting but....

 

Our 15 year old son (3 months from 16) has figured us out. Our bedroom door wasn't locked one night and he walked in and saw us on the board. He always knocks....why not this time? And we have been going out more lately although the majority of it has just been the two of us.

 

So, to say he is having a problem with this is an understatement. We apparently aren't people he can respect now. We didn't deny it partly because it wouldn't have done any good. He wouldn't believe us. It could be so totally out there and he still wouldn't believe us. The 19 year old seems to care nothing about it. We have been going to dinner and things more because our children aren't home as much. The majority of the time, we don't even have plans to go anywhere but, when they are with friends, we aren't taking any time away from them to go out. Never thought it would be a problem for him. He threatens to tell everyone about this if we don't stay home all the time now.

 

I guess we should give you a little background info because I feel this attitude is a symptom of bigger things. His medical doctor and a friend's mom who has it herself feel he may be bi-polar. We want to get him tested but he is fighting it. He does not want to take any medication. Which in a way is ironic. He is on probation for stealing and taking triple C. He says that is why he doesn't want to take any.

 

Well, there is our concern. It helps to tell it to people who understand why we have done the things we have. Like many people he tells us it is wrong and we are not good examples. I think a major concern of his is that we will get a divorce. He said so and when I tried to discuss that in particular with him he didn't want to.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Gator and Vol

[2BeDeviled 15]

We have two sons, both (18 and 20) just out of the house. The youngest, who is ADHD would probably have a similar reaction, though to be truthful, I'm not sure he'd go public with it. My oldest likely would respond with a hearty "AHA!" and just laugh. Our boys are everything to us, and we would be struggling with such a circumstance. How to explain that your activities are not leading to divorce will obviously depend on what you've taught him about relationships to this point. We have been quite adamant in the past about fidelity between couples, so that comment was not meant as criticism, implied or otherwise. We easily could have wound up in the same boat. In fact, I'm not sure I'd want either of the boys to know about our proposed activities at this time. Our flirtation with the lifestyle did not commence until our youngest left for FSU (sorry ... OK! OK! the oldest is in fact a GATOR) ...realistically, his departure from our home was in some way, a catalyst for this and a few other "newfound" interests.

 

We stand ready to listen and offer what limited wisdom we can.

Mr and Mrs BeDeviled

[Chicup 41]

I can't say I have an answer for you, I don't, but I can say that there is a world of difference between 15 and 19.

 

I remember seeing "Real People" I think when I was about 14. It was a piece with a nude male model for an art class with all the innuendo etc you would expect from a prime time fluff show.

 

Anyways it REALLY bothered me, I mean how could this guy just get naked like that? It was just wrong. It bugged me so much I went for a walk outside so I didn't have to see the rest of the piece and it was still bothering me.

 

Why I remember this I dont' know, but I do know I'd never have had the same reaction at 19.

 

At that age you can't even picture your parents having sex together, the thoughts of them doing some crazy group sex orgy thing would most likely blow most kids minds.

 

To take it from another angle, I play a lot of online games. These days its not like when I started and most people playing were over 18 as now everyone has a home internet connection. As soon as someone says a 'your mother is so' or 'I did it to your mom' or whatever joke, you KNOW they are between 14-16. They just seem to focus on their mothers at this age. Its one thing to have another kid tell you 'I did your mom' its another to know someone else could be any Saturday night.

 

I wouldn't focus so much on some possible bi-polar issue and just think of it as a kid issue.

[clutch 28]

This is a 2 cent version--I'd consider seeking some familial counseling--maybe with someone new.

 

I feel for you... everyone takes things differently. I know my parents swung with at least one other couple, and my mom had a lot of extra-marital sex... I never walked in on them, but I could have. They didn't particularly try to hide it.

 

My friend's parents swung downstairs after all the kids went upstairs to bed. I was spending the night, and we snuck down and watched them, and crept back up to bed without getting caught. (We didn't actually see them fucking, but they were kissing and fondling with the neighbor couple.

 

Another friend I had had parents who were outta-the-closet swingers; my friend and his two sisters were well aware of what was happening.

 

Our parents, at the time, were all WWII vets, had seen a lot, done a lot, and fucked a lot while overseas. They were made of a little bit harder stuff than our generation. While they tried to be discreet--for the kid's sakes, they really didn't give a flying frick to whether or not we knew their sex lives or whether or not we approved of it.

 

We were the kids; they provided for us; loved us the best they could, and, as my mom used to say, hoped we stayed out of jail til we were 21.

 

To be honest, I don't know that these parental swinging or non-marital events had that much drastic affect on any of us. I believe we all just kind of took it as normal because that's what we were used to. And our parents expected us to act normally and civilized.

 

As far as you guys not being someone he could respect??? That sounds a lot more like him being a 16 year old than anything else. Explain to him you could give him a million different things about yourself that he couldn't respect.

 

Have you ever told him why you swing? How it helps you enjoy each other more--maybe the variety of menu from day-to-day analogy. (Maybe, or maybe not, play the immature/inexperienced card--you don't have enough life experience. What if someday you woke up and realized we were right??)

 

All of this is to say, I do not like the fact that your son threatens you.

 

It sounds like he's deeply unhappy. Explain that he, himself, has done, and will do things that make you unhappy and/or mad, but you still love him regardless.

 

Also, point out that you, too, are human. You've done things in the past that made him mad or unhappy, and he might as well face it, he can expect that in the future. But that doesn't mean you love him any less. That sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, and move on instead of making an issue about it.

 

Explain that your marriage is fine and that he needs to accept that. End of the story.

 

Then, maybe ignore him a little--as in giving him a little space to work out what the reality is. As my mom would have said, "Let him put that in his pipe and smoke it."

 

If he continues to threaten you, just raise one eyebrow and say, "Some cultures would regard you to be a man, now, son. So you just go on and do what you gotta do." If he starts telling people, so be it. (Scandal lasts from 2 to 6 months; after that, though the fact remains the same, everyone just kind of gets bored gossiping over it and just moves on.) Bottom line, if your son did tell someone, you really could weather it. Not fun, but possible. (Not to minimize it, but if you watch the growth of SLS in your area, swinging really is coming out of the closet in an exponential way.)

 

Bottom line, let him know you love him and never let him see you flinch. And again, it sounds far more like 16 year old behavior than "caught-my-parent's-swinging" behavior.

 

Also, in case I totally missed the boat, and did nothing but lay on a crock on your painful situation, (which I am quite capable of doing) you might check out the familial counseling route).

 

Best of luck and peace

[Tybee Swing 286]

Hi Gator and Vol, I'm sorry for your dilemma. It's been a big concern of mine, too (we still have one at home).

 

I think that most 15-year-olds (soon to be 16) would take it pretty hard. Try to remember yourself at 15, and picturing your mother with a bunch of strange men. Know what I mean? It's just a bit of a shock to him. Did this just happen very recently?

 

Even though he's telling you he doesn't want to listen, keep talking. When he objects, use statements like this: "When your mother and I catch you at something, and you want to explain your side, we give you that chance. You need to give us the same consideration."

 

(With my teenager, I've always had to use this kind of statement to make her see the light and be fair about it. Empathy doesn't come naturally to most teenagers. But when I say something like this, she gets it, and we can talk. They do understand fair play - that's why they're always saying, "that's not fair!" )

 

When you finally have him listening, explain (like you did here) that most of the time you are going out, it's just the two of you. It's normal and natural that as kids get older and are doing their own thing, the parents have more time for each other and for reconnecting, like they did before kids.

 

His forbidding you to go out or else he'll tell on you: blackmail and threats. That needs to be nipped in the bud. Again, turn the tables on him. "Son, when you were in trouble for ____, or when you did _____ (something he wouldn't want his peers to know about), we didn't tell you to stay home or else we'd tell everybody you know. We would never threaten or blackmail you that way, and you owe us the same respect. This is a family matter for us to work out between us."

 

When you feel like he's listening to you and is communicating, give him a chance to express his feelings. He might be confused. Most kids even at his age, have their parents on a pedestal and have a certain image of them. It's natural for him to have some feelings. If he feels like he's being heard, it might diffuse a lot of this for him.

 

Some of his feelings might be based on what little he knows or has heard about swinging, which might be nothing like what you two really do. What I'd do on the swinging topic in your shoes, is not start explaining what swinging is to you (possible overload of info at this time). Instead, after he's calm and rational and you all are communicating (and acknowledging his feelings), ask him if he has any questions for you about swinging. Answer his questions in honest yet subtle ways. The honest answers are probably a lot more palatable for him than the image he might have in his mind of what swinging is.

 

He might not be ready for all of this at once, though. It might be a series of talks. It could be an opportunity to help him learn to accept people for who they are, to be a better communicator, how to have open, honest and rational conversations instead of using threats, and a lot of other valuable life lessons.

 

I think a major concern of his is that we will get a divorce. He said so and when I tried to discuss that in particular with him he didn't want to.

 

When he's ready to hear it, tell him how strong and loving your marriage is. Like most people, he probably thinks that swinging is about disrespect and not loving your partner enough to want to keep them all to yourself. Even adults have a hard time with this one. So, with patience and reassurance, tell him how much in love you both are, and how honest and open your marriage is. Not as if swinging is "the way the truth and the light", but just focusing on the fact that you are very happy with each other and in love, and nothing will change that. Like most people, he might think that swinging is akin to cheating. If you pick up on that vibe, you might need to have that talk, too.

 

It must be really tough for you guys. Please let us know how it goes!

[Spoomonkey 421]

We don't have kids at home (mine live with their mom quite a distance away and Mrs Spoo's is grown) so we haven't had to deal with this. When my boys come for the summer, everything in the house is sterilized and hidden...

 

But that is so easy to do for a few weeks at a time.

 

I am sorry you guys are facing it and have no idea what to advise or how I would handle it. I mean, I would talk to them if they found out - but how that would go, I couldn't even imagine. Would they calmly accept it? Be genuinely and acceptingly curious? Would they freak and blow out pilot lights? Who knows.

 

I can't even imagine how full time parents handle it.

 

But - maybe in the end this will lead you guys to help him face an issue (Bipolar) and bring you all closer. At least, I am crossing my fingers for that very thing!

 

Spoomonkey

[TNT 1,155]

My view on things may be totally off from others on this but I'll give it anyway.

 

Who is the parent and who is the child here?

 

Our 15 year old son (3 months from 16) has figured us out. Our bedroom door wasn't locked one night and he walked in and saw us on the board.

 

Our kids have caught us on different ADULT sites...we've always just clicked the screen down and when they have asked what we were looking at the answer has always been ...Adult stuff and none of your business.

 

There is no reason whatsoever that you and your wife are not entitled to go out whenever and where ever you want to...in fact, it's very, very important for parents to take that alone time. As long as you are not neglecting your children, enjoy your time out anyway you want.

 

He threatens to tell everyone about this if we don't stay home all the time now.

 

Ummm, yeah, right... :rollseyes He would probably be too embarrassed to actually carry out that threat. Kids say they're going to do a lot of things that they really have no intentions of ever doing. It's their way of getting you to feel less than adequate. If you honestly don't feel like you have or are doing anything wrong stand by your convictions and just look at him and say "go ahead". I bet it will make him stop in his tracks and think a bit.

 

I guess we should give you a little background info because I feel this attitude is a symptom of bigger things. His medical doctor and a friend's mom who has it herself feel he may be bi-polar. We want to get him tested but he is fighting it. He does not want to take any medication.

 

Again I ask...who is the child and who is the parent? It's your responsibility to make sure that he is healthy and taken care of ...he doesn't get a choice in this. You want him tested, you get him tested. He's not 18 yet and therefore is not of an age to make his own medical decisions.

 

I do not in anyway want to make light of what you are going through...been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

 

Our oldest, who has always been our problem child, threw the fact that because her dad and I are swingers we therefore knew nothing of what marriage was about in my face one day...it hurts, but in her case that's exactly what she meant to do. She was hurting and having problems in her own marriage and didn't want to listen to the truths her mother was telling her...she knew exactly how to hurt me and used it. Unfortunately for her, even though it did hurt, I didn't let her see that it did. I stood by what I believed and calmly told her if she wanted to discuss her dad and I she was welcome to but she was going to have to act like the adult she was suppose to be first (she was 22 at the time). She later came back and apologized and her and I have been closer ever since.

 

Stand your ground. Love your children, protect them to the best of your ability, give them the guidance they need when needed but don't let them run all over you.

 

Teresa

[gatorvol64 216]

Gosh, thank you all so much. It is nice to see that the way we want to handle this is some of the things you all suggested.

 

First, I should have said that yes, this is recent. Thursday he told his friend's Mom in front of Gator. Not a problem for us in that. He felt safe enough in that environment to do so and this couple has had their own "wild times". He and Gator really push each others buttons (the way the oldest and I have done in the past). So, he did think he would get back at Gator by calling his dad. Well, that didn't go the way he wanted either. And also not a problem for us. I personally do not think he will tell anyone else (these are people he knew wouldn't take it any further) because he wouldn't want his friends to know that about us and deep down he loves his parents.

 

We'll get him to the doctor. That is our responsibility. We'll also deal with the demands for us to stay home. We are the adults and parents here. Though I'll tell you that my #1 priority right now is to reassure him that we are not headed for a divorce. After thinking about this some more I have realized that he had this fear even before this. I can't imagine why. But who understands the workings of a teenage mind. I thought we had always showed him how much we mean to each other. I've even told him that he is lucky to have parents that want to spend time with each other. How many of his friends have parents that are still married?

 

When things calm down, with all of us, I'll point out that we may have disappointed him but I doubt it will be the last time. We are human just the way he is. And I'll tell him that the bottom line is that it really isn't any of his business. That didn't go over well the first time I told him but, that is just how it is. I've told him that when he is 18 he can do what ever he wants and it really won't be any of my business either.

 

And yes, I know some of what he says is just to hurt us. Most of what he says is just to hurt us. I remember wanting to do that myself as a teenager. Yesterday was our worst day but today is somewhat better. I may be in the middle but see effort on all sides.

 

Seeing as how the oldest doesn't have a problem at all with anything (says it is our business) I've asked him to stay out of things completely. He said ok. So, during all this I see my oldest actually growing up and that is great ( I thought it wasn't ever going to happen).

 

So, my strategy if you can call it that and I hope works.

Let things cool off a day to two

Reassure that no matter what his parents will be staying together

Get him to a doctor

Address the issue of him trying to "ground" his parents

 

We really thank all of you for your advice and just plain caring.

 

Vol

[atlas 15]

I'm gonna chime in here with another "I have no experience with this" reply. I was a rough child that played chicken with my parents quite a bit. I think you're stuck in a bit of a position on this one. You either call his bluff or you live under his power. I don't think the later is an option. It's an unfortunate position to be in, but it happens, especially with children. The risks were acknowledged when you entered into a lifestyle that the majority of society does not approve.

 

You may be tempted to counter with a threat. However, don't make threats your not prepared to execute or you're back under his power. In addition, this can get you into an "eye for an eye" makes the world go blind if one of you doesn't let it go(he does something, you do something, he does something, etc.). More so, gaging a threat that'll really impact him without doing undo damage can be really difficult. It's a luxury he has that you do not.

 

In reality, I think you may simply be outed and get ready for damage control. Can you really trust he'll keep your secret anyway? Call his bluff and end it. Give him a "I'm a big person and can handle myself. Do what you have to do." However, I personally don't have anything to lose by being outed, other than some annoying explanations, so I'm really talking out of my ass.

 

I look forward to the day when my daughter starts playing chicken with me. It's messy and destructive, but teaches you something about the person and what they're made of. I grew a lot during that time. I think my relationship with my parents became much better when they stopped fighting me and didn't get too worked up about my decisions. Things got bad around 15, and they gave up around 17.

[gatorvol64 216]

Oh, yes, I forgot to tell you that he still wants to keep the double date he and his girlfriend have with his parents for Wednesday night. And he does have his own money to pay for her dinner. We've never done this before but, I'm sure we'll have a good time.

 

Vol

[prettylady 221]

It is good to have a plan. Stick to it, it sounds like a good one.

My parents had trouble with my brother (not swinging issues, just teenager stuff). We had the cops at our door for, oh I don't know, the hundredth time that week. This officer was older and like TNT said, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. He told my Dad, until he makes it clear to my brother who is who in this relationship, my brother is going to continue to be an SOB. So as much as it hurt my parents, the took the hard stance. Big brother was no longer "protected" by my parents. He soon started to smarten up.

The line between parent and child can become blurry at times. You just need to redraw that line.

Listen to me talking like an old pro. I should mention that my kids are still just babes (8&9 yrs old). I am talking from memories that happened a long time ago. Times as well as kids change.

Suggest perhaps the next time your son wants to go out that he should stay home as well. I mean since you have to stay home to protect his feelings, don't you deserve the same kindness.

Please don't take this as disrespect because I have the up most respect for you both. But, Both my sisters are Bi-polar and I have ADD my parents never used that as a reason to let us get away with poor respect towards them. It is not a crutch, it is a part of life. You deal with the issue and keep moving forward in life. My one sisters son has ADHD and is also a divorced mother. IMHO, I think with the guilt of the divorce and the stress of dealing with a son with ADHD she let things slide and now my nephew almost seems lost and my sister is at her ropes end.

So stick to your plan and get your son help right away, not about the swinging thing, but about other issues in his life. This may seem like the big issue now, but perhaps it was the ticket to finding the bigger picture.

Best wishes

Your rambling friend,

Prettylady

[gatorvol64 216]

Suggest perhaps the next time your son wants to go out that he should stay home as well. I mean since you have to stay home to protect his feelings, don't you deserve the same kindness.

I did that. So, I did good, huh?

 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to leave the impression that we were going to let the bi-polar be an excuse. Our oldest has ADHD and we've dealt with that. We've already had the run-in with the police. When they arrested him, they told us they could only keep him 8 hours but we could get him sooner. We made them keep him the whole 8 hours and since the officers are friends of ours they made it as bad a they could. Bright lights, cold cell by himself, and no blanket. And his friend that he was arrested with got to leave earlier than he did. We told them not to take it easy on him. But it was hard to see him put him in handcuffs.

 

Just because your children are young does not mean you can't have good advice and I appreciate your effort to help us out. Sharing your experiences was a great help. Thank you very much. I really respect the way you are with your children. Raising my children are the only thing I felt I am not a success at (well, of the things that really count).

 

Vol

[Mr. Truelove 81]

When they arrested him, they told us they could only keep him 8 hours but we could get him sooner. We made them keep him the whole 8 hours and since the officers are friends of ours they made it as bad a they could. Bright lights, cold cell by himself, and no blanket. And his friend that he was arrested with got to leave earlier than he did. We told them not to take it easy on him. But it was hard to see him put him in handcuffs.

 

Vol

 

 

I think that is great! I got into trouble when I was younger, and it seemed my parents always let me off the hook. Well, I kept doing it until one day it came with some stiff consequences.

 

Good for you to take such a bold stance.

 

Mr. Truelove

[LFM2 1,482]

I too think you've done good.

 

I didn't respond to this any sooner as Mr. LFM hadn't read the thread nor had I told him about until we were both washing dishes this morning. Our son who is also 16 was in his room putting together his new Wii and knew we had the utmost privacy. (that boy eats, lives and dreams of gaming!)

 

I told him of your situation and what might we might do if our situation was the same? I told him that if our son, who I'm sure already knows of our "adult" web-sites, ever made a threat against us that he would tell grandma (who'd have a stroke!) then I guess I'd have to say "Go for it!" because we're not compromising. Those are terrorist tactics in our eyes. Either you do this for me or I'm gonna tell so-and-so that you guys sleep around. Whatever. Just remember we know where you sleep.

 

I'm not sure if I've mentioned this, but I work in juvenile corrections. I work in a level IV setting where we get the juvenile murderers, sex offenders, gun toting burglars, robbers and other various crimes. The level of manipulation is unreal and if I can deal with 150 of them there, I can deal with one at home.

 

Sounds like you're already on the fast track and seriously I have the utmost respect for you guys. You're gonna do well, and I want to add that I never wanna be in your shoes.

[prettylady 221]

You love them, they love you.

sounds like a success story to me.

Your friend,

Prettylady

[gatorvol64 216]

I'm not sure if I've mentioned this, but I work in juvenile corrections. I work in a level IV setting where we get the juvenile murderers, sex offenders, gun toting burglars, robbers and other various crimes. The level of manipulation is unreal and if I can deal with 150 of them there, I can deal with one at home.

After they had him in the patrol car they came back in to talk with us. It was sad to hear we were lucky this was all he had done. Lucky were their exact words. That is just a sad state this world is in.

 

Vol

[gatorvol64 216]

Just to let you all know what is going on...

 

We had a very good doctor's appointment today. Adjusting some meds and we all came away with things we can do to improve the situation. Not reacting to what he says during an episode will help. He came away with thoughts on not being able to control everything and that some things are just life and you have to do. Why does it help a teenager to hear those kind of things from someone other than his parents? Doesn't bother me...I just want him to understand some things before he gets to the age it took me.

 

But we've made a good start here.

 

Thanks, Vol

[flkeyscouple 21]

Great Vol, I'm glad to hear it! I thought of you many times during the last two days and wondered how I'd handle the same situation. I'm glad (knock on wood) that I don't have to find out!

 

Sarah

[LFM2 1,482]

Gator and Vol, I'm so glad to hear this as well. I've been thinking of you guys and hoping that things will smooth out.

[clutch 28]

Just to let you all know what is going on...

 

Why does it help a teenager to hear those kind of things from someone other than his parents?

 

l

 

This is definitely join-the-club stuff. It's genetically encoded into all teens.

[Shegomer 15]

Teresa

Ummm, yeah, right... He would probably be too embarrassed to actually carry out that threat. Kids say they're going to do a lot of things that they really have no intentions of ever doing. It's their way of getting you to feel less than adequate. If you honestly don't feel like you have or are doing anything wrong stand by your convictions and just look at him and say "go ahead". I bet it will make him stop in his tracks and think a bit.

 

I agree with TNT on this one. I really doubt he will tell anyone. He will face as much ridicule and such as you would.

 

I have 2 children one 16 one almost 19. Although our "swinging" is much different than most (we are in a poly relationship) My 16 year old knows about the four of us. She just came right our and asked one day last summer. the four of us have been together for almost 4 years and we dont really hide how we feel about each other around the kids. Our spice have 2 very small kids one 7 and one 9 so they have been around our relationship since they can remember. I dont know if my daughter is just odd or what hehehe, but she was not only 'not shocked' or freaked out...she thought it was cool. Now I dont know if she'd have been as 'cool' with it if we were dating or seeing more people, but we have raised her with the 'parents are the boss' attitude and she has alot of gay or bi friends at her school so I think she is just so open minded about things that she just didnt think it odd or gross.

 

I think you might have a long road ahead of you trying to make him understand. Not really sure just what the right answer would be to help you. But I do think you wont have much to worry about as far as him telling your secret. And you might even tell him that he will be ridiculed as much if not more than you. Place the threat, SO TO SPEAK, back on him.

 

Shegomer

[intuition897 2,179]

Well. A few thoughts...

 

First of all, we've had to start confronting this early: our 12 year old asked me point-blank, "Mom, what's a swinger?" *PANIC! PANIC! PANIC!* So I had the deer in the headlights moment every parent dreads. So, I told her the truth. What else could I do?! I told her that swingers were people who were non-monogamous. Well what did that mean? It meant that they were married but they were okay with having sex with other people too. When I described my reply to Mr. intuition, he raised an eyebrow. I guess I can't blame him, but really! What would he have said? I hate the idea of lying. I did lie, however, and told her that the friends I had made here on SB were very nice people and I enjoyed chatting with them...but her Dad and I were not swingers. I just enjoyed talking with them. She noticed that I'm always on something called Swingersboard, although I'm careful to scroll away from the nudie ads and have told my kids that the content is too mature for them. They have so far respected this (to my knowledge). I'm hoping that we can adopt a don't-ask-don't-tell policy with our kids, where we expect them to respect our relationship boundary and understand that certain things are private between married people. This is one of them.

 

I did tell her that we were not swingers, and asked her to please not mention it (my cyber-wanderings) to anyone. For example, it would be very unkind of her to mention this to Grandma because it would cause her to worry that her Dad and I were into this sort of thing. And there was no reason whatsoever for Grandma to worry about such silly things...or her either.

 

I hope she doesn't get an attack of adolescent drama-queen-itis and decide she's going to "punish" me by outing us to Grandma. If she gets to that point, I'll be sure to take a more aggressive stance and give her something to think about.

 

GatorVol, I think if it was me in your situation, I'd probably want to firmly stand my ground. My marriage existed before our kids did, and while we'd each give our lives for our kids, and I'd want Mr. intuition to choose their lives over mine if it came down to a choice, our marriage is the foundation that our family is built on... not the kids. It doesn't make them unimportant. It just means that they aren't the foundation. That being said, I don't feel badly telling them that Mr. and I will do what is right FOR US when it comes to our marriage, and that no one - not even our kids - is going to tell us what is and is not allowed between us as a married couple.

 

It's a tough situation, though, and I really feel for you. We haven't contributed to our kids' views of what marriage is supposed to mean beyond being an example, yet they are both already environmentally conditioned thanks to the world outside to believe that monogamy is the one true norm. I told my 10 year old about King Solomon today, and how he was the richest king who ever lived. I said, in those days, it was normal for men to marry multiple women. In fact, King Solomon had over 700 wives. He commented that that must've been tough; each woman squawking at him that he had cheated on her 699 times! God, I love kids! They just say the damnedest things. Anyway, although I corrected him and let him know that in those days, this was considered normal, and they weren't jealous, I was amazed at how efficiently and insidiously our kids are conditioned to believe the monogamy hype. Well-meaning people preach it at them from the time they pop out of the womb. I didn't have to lift a finger!

 

You mentioned that you're going to take your son to a doctor; maybe I'm being paranoid, but I wonder if you should maybe make yourself aware of your doctor's open-mindedness. No doubt this'll all come out in the wash and who knows? If your doc happens to be a fanatic of some sort, he or she may try saying, "Of course your kid's screwed up! How could he not be? You're swingers after all!" I just know that a lot of the "experts" you hear from on news reports, etc., will not hesitate to tell you what kind of disaster swinging is for your marrige. So apparently they're not above jumping to conclusions. It's just a thought.

[Mrs Spoomonkey 118]

Just to let you all know what is going on...

 

We had a very good doctor's appointment today. Adjusting some meds and we all came away with things we can do to improve the situation. Not reacting to what he says during an episode will help. He came away with thoughts on not being able to control everything and that some things are just life and you have to do. Why does it help a teenager to hear those kind of things from someone other than his parents? Doesn't bother me...I just want him to understand some things before he gets to the age it took me.

 

But we've made a good start here.

 

Thanks, Vol

 

Well I am coming in late, found out about this from another thread and talked with Spoo about it. I skimmed the thread and from your last post it does sound like you've done some right things and are heading in a good direction. I commend your strength through all this...it can be a parents nightmare. Also, a big pat on the back for leaving him in jail the whole 8 hours. I wish my mom had done that more with my brother (4 years older then me) because she has now spent her life catering to him. It takes more strength to leave them there then to rescue them all the time.

 

Your in our thoughts. Keep us posted on the progress.

 

Mrs Spoomonkey

[gatorvol64 216]

You mentioned that you're going to take your son to a doctor; maybe I'm being paranoid, but I wonder if you should maybe make yourself aware of your doctor's open-mindedness. No doubt this'll all come out in the wash and who knows? If your doc happens to be a fanatic of some sort, he or she may try saying, "Of course your kid's screwed up! How could he not be? You're swingers after all!" I just know that a lot of the "experts" you hear from on news reports, etc., will not hesitate to tell you what kind of disaster swinging is for your marrige. So apparently they're not above jumping to conclusions. It's just a thought.

Our doctor is very cool. Is really good for our son. He isn't what a "normal" doctor looks and he himself has done many of the same things as our son when he was young. He will not freak out. Our son is able to talk with him and the counselor he has. The counseling is part of his probation and we couldn't have found a better one for him than the one he got through the court system. She is what we would have looked for ourselves and if she or our son feels he still needs counseling after his probation is complete we'll do our best to ensure she is the one that continues with him.

 

We've had a couple of excellent days. Went on a "double date" with him and his girlfriend to night. Already had it planned. We all four (especially the 3 of us) had a great time. I'm sure the adjusted meds help him but, I actually can see the effort he is giving on his side. I know tomorrow could be totally different but I have to be optimistic about where he is headed. Stress and worrying just makes me unpleasant (the nice word) to be around. If I could just understand why he worries about us so much it would help. When we are away from him he'll often call and see if we are ok and tell us to be careful. Now, that just isn't normal for a teenager.

 

Thanks so much,

Vol and Gator

[gatorvol64 216]

Your in our thoughts. Keep us posted on the progress.

 

Mrs Spoomonkey

That is what we need and we appreciate everyone. I'll admit we were very upset when this first happened and we just turned to everyone here. It is nice to be able to do that. And I'll tell you that seeking your advice isn't a normal thing for the female half here. Things are my business and no one else's. So, yes, I work on control issues I have.

 

Vol

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

My first thought is that this sounds like a plea for attention. It may seem like you don't take anytime away from him to swing and you may not, but maybe he does need more time and attention from you specifically to him. Perhaps more of these "double dates" would be a good idea and more one on one time, so that he knows he is important.

 

I don't have kids but I've noticed something from families I've watched around me over the years. Often parents think that if they just leave the kids alone and give them waht they want they will be happy (and I'm not saying you have done this). What kids really want is for their parents to really take an interest in them and what they are doing, to specifically make time to be with them.

 

I don't think you have much to worry about on being outed from what you've said but I also think that if you keep the double date and even go so far as to ask him if he'd like to make that a regular (weekly or bi-weekly) thing with you guys you might find that you develop a whole new level of relationship with him.

 

As for the bi-polar issue I, personally, have serious issues with teens being labeled as bi-polar. They are teenagers! We were all bi-polar when we were teenagers, the last thing they need is to be put on medication so that they end up avoiding the issues and emotions they are dealing with and never really learn how to handle them or life without medication.

[gatorvol64 216]

My first thought is that this sounds like a plea for attention. It may seem like you don't take anytime away from him to swing and you may not, but maybe he does need more time and attention from you specifically to him. Perhaps more of these "double dates" would be a good idea and more one on one time, so that he knows he is important.

You are right about him liking attention. He always has wanted more than his older brother and we are aware of that. We try to take time with him as a couple and individually too. I say try because it seems harder to do now. He wants to spend more time with his friends. Our youngest is a free-spirit (gets a little of that from me I guess) and has interests that aren't the norm in this town. This is a redneck community and he definitely isn't that. He is usually ok with being different and we've always taken up for his right to be an individual. And if any of you know anything about a small southern community, you'll understand what even, we as his parents, have had to deal with.

 

I can deal with being outed if it happens although I know it won't be pleasant. I faced that as part of the package when we decided to swing. But, I don't think he will be the one that does this. My children are actually the two I thought might understand one day. A day when they were both adults. Seeing as he is still the person we know him to be, I think he'll get there eventually. But at almost 16 his life is confusing enough without this.

As for the bi-polar issue I, personally, have serious issues with teens being labeled as bi-polar. They are teenagers! We were all bi-polar when we were teenagers, the last thing they need is to be put on medication so that they end up avoiding the issues and emotions they are dealing with and never really learn how to handle them or life without medication.

I would normally have a tendency to agree with you. However, some things are genetic and both sides of his family has some history of at least depression and add. ADD medications don't agree with him (side effects) but, depression med seems to be working. He will tell you that he feels better using it. It isn't a large dose. And we worried about him taking it to start with. He still has to learn how to handle things in his life. I remember being his age and having the mood swings. However, these didn't go away for me after my teenage years. Actually they became worse.

 

I'm sorry that I can't seem to post in short answers. Everything that has been suggested has been great. Granted we are aware of some of these but we have revisited them and tried to determine if we are still keeping them in mind. Others have been new and we have talked about those too. I'm not sure you can know how much this has meant to us.

 

Vol

[SW_MS_CPL 15]

Gator and Vol. We wish you good luck and continued sucess. It sounds like the things you are doing are well thought out, and making progress. As parents of a soon to be 11 year old, we hope we handle these kind of situations half as well as you have.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

depression med seems to be working. He will tell you that he feels better using it. It isn't a large dose. And we worried about him taking it to start with. He still has to learn how to handle things in his life. I remember being his age and having the mood swings. However, these didn't go away for me after my teenage years. Actually they became worse.

 

 

One thing that I discovered in my short time with depression meds is that they can cause bi-polar behaviour. So if there is a worry of that I would have to wonder and examine whether he is really bi-polar or if the depression medication is just making him that way.

[gatorvol64 216]

Thanks, Julie. We'll be sure to watch that and talk to the doctor.

 

Gator had a good day with him. They were going to the store and out of the blue he started talking to Gator. (We had decided to give him a few days to think things through.) Our son told Gator that he had been thinking about things and it was wrong for him (our son) to expect us to stay home and for him to try and tell us we couldn't go places. He doesn't understand and still doesn't believe it is right. He strongly emphasized he just worries about us being safe in all things we do. Whether that is drinking, swinging, or whatever.

 

Vol

[OshawaPair 15]

Just to let you all know what is going on...

 

We had a very good doctor's appointment today. Adjusting some meds and we all came away with things we can do to improve the situation. Not reacting to what he says during an episode will help. He came away with thoughts on not being able to control everything and that some things are just life and you have to do. Why does it help a teenager to hear those kind of things from someone other than his parents? Doesn't bother me...I just want him to understand some things before he gets to the age it took me.

 

But we've made a good start here.

 

Thanks, Vol

 

Hi we're new to the site and our kids are still very young (9 and 4), but I felt I had to add some personal experiences to flesh out the bi-polar issue.

 

When I was around 8 years old my parents noticed some severe personality and mood swings and took me to a psychiatrist (I'm 38 now). Back in those days the didn't believe that kids could have bi-polar so the dr just palmed it off as me acting out for attention. Ten years later I was back to a different shrink for the same problems and he said I had 'anxiety issues' and some depression. Last spring I had a nervous break down in my office and was advised to seek psychiatric care.

 

Finally after 30 years I was correctly diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Now with medication and the loving support of my wife and family I'm making progress towards as normal a life as I can acheive.

 

I can understand your son's angst and fears of an impending divorce. When in a depressive phase I see calamity everywhere and feel like the whole world is out to get me. When elevated I can either be 'extremely' happy/manic or angry/manic, and be the life of the party or the worst s.o.b. in the universe. With your love support and understanding your son can and will improve as long as he keeps taking the meds. My wife and kids are happier and so am I, and my family has noticed a dramatic change in me as well.

 

Just be honest with your son and remember "you're the parents", tell him that what you do behind closed doors is your business not his. It's also your right and resposibility to yourselves to take care of yourselves and be happy doing what you enjoy.

 

I know one day we're going to be where you are today and I hope I remember my own advice lol!

 

I'm so glad you've gotten him the help he needs now, no one should have to deal with this condition for 30 years without help like I did

 

Warmest Regards,

 

Joe (& Kat), OshawaPair

[gatorvol64 216]

When elevated I can either be 'extremely' happy/manic or angry/manic, and be the life of the party or the worst s.o.b. in the universe.

That sounds just like his episodes.

 

Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I'm very happy for you and your family. I've been researching and, if I'm understanding things correctly, it can be a struggle to get the meds just right.

 

Vol

[gatorvol64 216]

I just thought I'd share that he has reasoned this out in his mind. Apparently, Gator and I are having a mid-life crisis and didn't know it. Which is fine, at that age I'd probably have thought the same thing about my parents.

[flkeyscouple 21]

Hey Vol,

How is it going - now a few weeks later? Are you still communicating? and how's that mid-life crisis going??

 

I think about this situation often - two of our boys are living VERY close to us these days, and although they are older (25 & 28) and I expect they'd be 'ok' with it, I still wonder how it would go if they figured our lifestyle out.

 

Last night one of our boys stopped over unexpectedly and needed to use the computer. I was in a panic that I'd left the board up and on the screen as he grabbed for the computer. I said something, quite sharply I think, and he stopped. I said 'I think I'm in the middle of ordering a book - let me finish'.... I closed my browser and handed him the laptop. Whew... and actually I HADN'T left the board on the screen - but I was worried. I actually use Firefox and tell the kids to use Safari - that way the bookmarks and history don't give me away.

 

I looked up this thread again this AM to reread the situations and suggestions. I'll do another search and read other threads. It's amazing how calming it is to read the suggestions and support that this board gives! What a great support system we have here!!

 

So Vol - how about an update??

 

Sarah

[gatorvol64 216]

Things are going better. Mostly just normal teenage stuff. He goes back to the doctor Monday. Sessions with his counselor are going ok. Well, she wants him to take 15 minutes a day for himself...meditate...that'll give him a chance to think on all kinds of things. Just can't get him to really do it. You can take the phone, computer and tv away for a time but you can't physically make him meditate. At least I don't know how. He doesn't even mention swinging anymore.

 

Oh, the mid-life crisis is going well....may just decide to keep it.

 

Vol

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

I used to be 15. Yes, he may have a genuine problem with your lifestyle (what kid isn't embarrassed by their parents!) but could it be this is something he is holding over your head as a way to manipulate you? Maybe even as a guilt trip?

 

I'm sorry this happened to you. I think you've gotten some good advice from the parents above. I know when I was 15, I never imagined my parents as sexual beings who had a life outside of the home. So this may come as a double shock to the boy. I'm glad things are improving.

 

 

I wish I had some great advice, but I just have empathy. I hope your home life gets better and better, and that your son gets treatment, which can be a lifesaver for him. Bipolar is an illness, just like diabetes or heart disease, and it needs to be treated.

 

I do, however, have advice on "forcing" someone to meditate for 15 minutes. I know it's supposed to be his time, but this might be the next best thing, it's what I do with my loved-one who has Bipolar: I take 15 minutes WITH her, and say, "OK, let's work on our meditation skills. Let's sit. Now, we close our eyes. First, we're going to focus on our breathing..." and then go into the exercises you've been given (or ask the therapist for some of the exercises.) No, this isn't the ideal way to do it, but it's better than not doing it at all.

 

Mr. Bird

[gatorvol64 216]

Thanks you, Mr. Bird. We'll see how that works.

 

Vol

[sereneiders 263]

Gator and Vol, I am not a parent myself, so I cannot put myself in your shoes. However, I was 15 like anyone else around, and I had my own problems with my parents.

 

Now that things seems to settle down, I'd like to bring your attention to some other aspect. IF he figured you two out, meaning what's swinging about, that you have and HAD sex with other people, he could be having a pretty big storm of ideas inside his mind.

 

When we're kids we're the world's bellybutton, we're the center of the universe, and as we grow older, (luckily) we figure out there are things that aren't "about us". So, I was trying to think of this from this perspective... what could be happening in your kids head? After all, he have no experiences to correlate with yours, but a void to fill up with his own fantasies and nightmares.

 

Now, I'll be raw here with the sort of things that he could be thinking.

 

He could think... "for how long did they swing? From before they had me? Did they used condoms 15 years ago? Someone else could be my biological father, right? If so, and if they KNOW... wouldn't my father hate me? If he have a doubt... how can he love me?" or perhaps he could be following another line of toughts, you know, most kids trend to blame themselves for his parents divorse, so, he could be going like "are they doing this to avoid divorcing? they may be really liking to be with other people because they hate themselves, and this is the only way they had to be able to stand this situation, just to keep resembling a nice family because they still have kids at home, i.e... me, and once I grow up, they would be free to split... if so, isn't my mom behaving like a whore because of ME?"

 

I appologize if I am being harsh about this, but I can EASILY figure out those toughts inside a 15 yeards old mind, moreover if he's already a troubled kid, and should he have those sort of toughts, it would be really hard for him to express his fears.

 

I agree with the others when they say "you're the parents, he's your son, you make the rules and he have to addapt", but... should he were having toughts like those, it'd be late to try this "normal" approach.

 

We often advice here that, in order to succesfully swing, we need to talk, talk and talk. This is to build up the understanding of the ways the swinging activities could affect our emotions in order to preserve our feelings. Now, you're facing a kid who WAS FORCED (it wasn't HIS choice) to deal with his own feelings when knowing or figuring out his parent's activities when swinging, and IMO, you cannot let him deal with this emotional rush alone... moreover when being a kid who's still learning on figuring out how to deal with his own "regular" emotions.

 

So, I guess now it is late to play the role of "we're your parents, we know it better, you will when you grow up, and period"... now it is time to extend the TALK, TALK and TALK to include your soon.

 

Of course, you wouldn't tell him any detail about the sex, the same way any kid knows their parents have sex (well, some kids disbelief they have sex at all), and they can be reasured by their parents about this, without having to disclose what they actually does in bed.

 

But you should disclose to him your beliefs about love, about (lack of) selfinesh, about all the process leading you to engage in swinging, tell him you had a lot of fears and that you put your relationship under the miscroscope before taking any risk, and how swinging affected every one of you and the relationship. Allow him to ask questions and disclose his own thoughts. Pay attention to his words, because anything from what we say is a mere coincidence or being said by chance, even when we may not know why we choose our words. Take the same care you took when talking about this togheter when you explored the whole swinging idea.

 

Give him the chance to think and express his oppinions as an adult, being respectfull about his word's value, and avoiding any "medical" excuse for his oppinions and behavior. If something hurts you, then dig in deeper, why he want's to hurt you? (or, in other words, what's he protecting himself from? because the attack is the better defense when you don't know any other way to protect yourself).

 

We have this thing about the "legal age" as an idealistic boundary, but along history, it didn't existed the adolescence, kids grew up into adults from one day to the next. Adolescense is a modern thing comming from the fact that kids had enough time to think and fill their own time in the everyday growing gap between childhood and adultness. But everywhere, all around the world, a lot of kids face something pushing them to become adults, at any age... 15, 12, 10... life isn't polite, and wheter you like it or not, I strongly believe your son is preciselly there, at this point... against your will, he was forced to be there, and insisting to treat him like a kid may not help him to become an adult.

 

Moreover, I believe you may be surprised if you give him a chance to grow up.

 

I know, this isn't as easy to do as to advice, and it is very likely that in order to do it, doing it in front of a professional able to moderate the talking, would be a good idea.

 

Whether you talk with him or not, he's the owner of his thoughts, he wont leave any void unfilled, and it is preferible to help him fill those voids with facts you can provide to him, than allow him to fill them with his fears (or allow a professional to help fill them up in a way biased with his own prejudices).

[Mr. Truelove 81]

Very good points sereneiders. I really agree with everything you said.

 

Mr. Truelove