Activities with cheating men. Thoughts?

[LetsParty 17]

Hi All!

 

I haven’t posted here in a while, but we just met a couple last night, who had a slightly different take on the Lifestyle, and I was curious about your thoughts.

 

They do some “cheat and greets” now and again. They may meet a couple and each go out alone with the other’s spouse. Or she may meet another guy, have some fun, and come home and tell the husband, etc. Him, too, on occasion.

 

That’s all fine and dandy – hotwife… whatever it’s called.

 

But here is where it gets a bit bizarre:

 

The “hot wife” often sleeps with married men who are cheating on their own wives. These are also men in her everyday, vanilla world. A colleague from the same company; trainer from the gym; old friend; business networking group, etc.

 

All these guys are married and cheating.

 

My partner and I are never ones to judge others. We always believed the more open people are with sex, the Lifestyle, open-marriages, fetishes, honesty, etc. etc. the better.

 

We’ve always said that the Lifestyle is not just about sex. Sex is the result of honesty, communication, open-mindedness, etc. I know you all understand, but the average vanilla may not.

 

The woman kept telling us, “It’s not MY sin!”; “I’M not lying!”; “That’s the GUY’s problem!”… And the husband kinda laughed at it.

 

I dunno.

 

Are we turning old-fashioned and prude?

 

Or is there really just something “unlifestyle-esque” about doing it with these cheating men from the community. It’s not that we looked at this woman and “lost respect” for her… but, Hmmm… as open-minded as we are, these people have WIVES sitting at home, thinking their husbands are at business meetings.

 

What do you think?

 

I understand that not all lifestylers have occasional separate activities, and to each his or her own. I’m not one to judge and say whether or not that enhances or detracts from a marriage. It’s going off with married, cheating men that kinda make my partner and I look at each other and go “gulp.”

 

I am so curious to hear your opinions!

[Spoomonkey 421]

LetsParty said:

My partner and I are never ones to judge others.

 

This debate has been had before - and I think where the problem always comes up is right here... If you have a problem with cheaters in the lifestyle, you are supposedly "judging" them.

 

I have a couple of problems with that.

 

1. How is that "judging"? Isn't it simply being intellectually honest about what is going on? To "judge" is to say that it is wrong - which is hard to say. If you've never been in a bad marriage, it is not easy to relate to people who are. I have sympathy for people who are in loveless marriages - but, still, cheating is cheating - whether they do it out of desperation or maliciousness.

 

2. Whether it is wrong for them - a thing it is tough to know without knowing their situation - it IS wrong for us. That is not judgment - that is discernment. We are responsible for what is right and wrong for us as a couple. I don't know or understand the problems that would lead a person to cheat - I just know I don't want those problems brought into - or brushed against - my marriage.

 

LetsParty said:

The woman kept telling us, “It’s not MY sin!”; “I’M not lying!”; “That’s the GUY’s problem!”… And the husband kinda laughed at it.

 

It’s not that we looked at this woman and “lost respect” for her… but, Hmmm… as open-minded as we are, these people have WIVES sitting at home, thinking their husbands are at business meetings.

 

Her only "sin" is potentially being a home wrecker...

 

Yes - there is a wife sitting at home - maybe children. Being an accomplice, she is giving these men the opportunity to hurt a lot of people in their life. No - it probably won't ever bite her in the ass, but what a selfish bitch...

 

But - let's look at her from an angle of "potential playmate".

 

She does not care what consequences her playmates might face. "That's the GUY's problem". If she is that callous towards them, it would stand to reason that she could be that callous with you. I would trust a person like this about as much as I would trust a scorpion sitting on my chest...

 

Swinging is better with people who actually give a shit about the lives they come in intimate contact with.

[Guest MrsVan]

Wow! What a selfish lady (using nice terms here ) MrVan and I have ran into couples who are comfortable going on "seperate dates" in the lifestyle and I guess for us as long as they are in agreement of what is going on, then that is okay. However, the people that we know that do this are usually going on seperate dates with the same couple...So for this wife to have sex with men who she knows either in or out of the lifestyle whose wives do not know of this, is wrong. And as Spoo said, she is a homewrecker..And I hate homewreckers. She obviously does not care for anything other than getting her booty call answered. Therefore, if she does not have the respect for the people she is playing with then I do not think I would want to be involved with such a person. I want to know that the people we play with care about the relationship that is there, the marriage that I have with my husband and respect that. Granted these men who are doing this without their wives knowing are doing this to themselves, but I do not understand her concept....

 

I would think this is a way they participate in the lifestyle but I think she has taken it a step further as far as "cheating."

 

I look forward to hearing what everyone else has to say.

 

MrsVan

[The Fuse 1,012]

In my opinion, many people who play the "don't be judgmental" card are really saying that they want carte blanche to do whatever they want, no matter the consequences for someone else, and not be thought of badly for doing it.

 

The whole "judge not, lest thee be judged" thing needs to be looked at critically. Yes, it needs to be judged.

 

Accusing someone of being judgmental tends to produce a knee-jerk reaction, like accusing them of doing something "politically incorrect"... I like to think about whether things are correct, rather than politically correct.

 

If we didn't ever judge peoples' actions, anyone could do nasty things to others and not suffer peoples' disdain. If we always judged peoples' actions, we'd never get anything done and our lives would be poisoned by constant sniping.

 

The answer is that there is a middle ground, a line to be drawn. Everyone must find that line for themselves. What criteria do we use? There are many. My favorite is the Golden Rule. More generally, do my actions have negative consequences for someone else?

 

Is it bad that I have a house that's way too big for two people? Is it bad that I take long showers and use lots of heat and water? Is it bad that we use fresh water and chemicals for our lawn? "Yes" is the answer to all three of those questions and others. My actions have indirect consequences for others. But I draw the line somewhere past those actions on the "wrong" scale. They are wrong, but I don't change them. Others may judge me for them.

 

Your friends are well aware that their actions enable someone to do things which will have bad consequences for them... worse if the wronged wives find out. Just because the husbands' actions are worse than your friends' actions doesn't mean they get off the hook. Because of what your friends do, bad things can happen. Bad enough that they are on the wrong side of the line.

 

I don't see anything wrong with "judging" their actions... in fact, not doing so is abdicating responsibility, which is what they themselves are doing. They are asking you to throw in with them, to validate them, by not caring about the consequences of their actions to others.

 

Why do people fall for this? Seriously, why do they?

 

No one has to tell your friends they're going to Hell or anything... just that what they are doing can hurt others. I'm not a Christian, but I do believe you can love someone and still dislike some things that they do. Sometimes we turn a blind eye. Sometimes we shouldn't.

[des1re06 200]

Having had men contact me on the internet and ask if we can play because their wives don't want sex, I always respond that if their wife calls me and gives permission, it's okay. They tend to move on after that. Otherwise, I would never knowingly play with a married man who was cheating.

 

To me, there's a big difference between consenting adults playing together (ie. swinging) and cheating.

 

 

Mrs. D

[VegasLee 1,486]

You not wanting to play with a cheating husband is not judging them at all.

 

Just because someone else does something does not mean it is for you or that you want to do it.

 

Laura and I do not knowingly play with cheating husbands but we have found out later about someone being a cheating husband that we did play with. If he wants to be a cheating husband that is his business but it does not mean we desire to be involved. Same as we are not into BDSM, not our thing but we don't judge those that are into it.

 

You stated this Lifestyle is about honesty. To us that means honesty by and for all involved and whether the cheating husband knows it or not his wife he is cheating on is involved. Goes for the ladies also. We see "married" women show up at the club without their husbands. Some have said he is not into this so she goes it alone without telling him. Personally, we don't go there.

[LetsParty 17]

So far, I am glad to see so many people share our view about getting involved (playing) with dishonest/lying/cheating men. My wife is still sleeping (LOL!) but I am looking forward to showing her these, and further, responses.

 

I think I should have stayed away from the "to judge or not to judge" theme. I am glad the thread isn't drifting too far, though! I think the word "judge" is a bit harsh.

 

I just wonder if anyone else were to approach a couple in a bar/club/online, and the woman said, "Oh, yeah, we have fun doing our own thing, too, sometimes. As a matter of fact, my last three adventures have all been with cheating, married men, in the community!"

 

...is there anyone here who would “look unfavorably at such a woman or couple”?

 

THAT is a better way to phrase it, rather than using the “J” word!

 

It's funny, because I am totally okay when I meet Lifestylers; bisexuals; homosexuals; people living in sin; poly couples... but there is just something that makes us go, "yikes!" when a woman is playing with a partner who has a wife and kids at home.

 

Looking forward to more thoughts!

[Spoomonkey 421]

LetsParty said:

...is there anyone here who would “look unfavorably at such a woman or couple”?

 

To each their own, but I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her (if she were tied to an upright piano and had just eaten a meal of lead beans...)

 

If she doesn't care about the marriage and problems of a cheating man, why would she care about mine?

[NakedInSeattle 159]

I'm not "judging" - I'm just stating a fact. Swinging, if it be a crime, is a victimless one. Cheating, on the other hand, does have victims - spouses, children, and the saddest victim, trust. We won't be a party to that. No way, no how.

[Tybee Swing 286]

They may meet a couple and each go out alone with the other’s spouse. Or she may meet another guy, have some fun, and come home and tell the husband, etc. Him, too, on occasion.

 

Up to this point, this wouldn't bother us about them (open marriage).

 

The “hot wife” often sleeps with married men who are cheating on their own wives. These are also men in her everyday, vanilla world. A colleague from the same company; trainer from the gym; old friend; business networking group, etc.

....

The woman kept telling us, “It’s not MY sin!”; “I’M not lying!”; “That’s the GUY’s problem!”… And the husband kinda laughed at it.

 

Are we turning old-fashioned and prude?

 

If you're a prude, then so are we. People with no compassion at all for the lied-to, cheated-on spouse (and probably also kids) sitting home alone, while hubby/daddy's out taking care of "business", just leave my blood running cold.

 

It’s not that we looked at this woman and “lost respect” for her… but, Hmmm… as open-minded as we are, these people have WIVES sitting at home, thinking their husbands are at business meetings.

 

What do you think? ... I am so curious to hear your opinions!

 

I'd have lost respect for her. I don't even know her, or her husband who just laughs about it, and I already have.

[meandher2go 17]

we have had a few cheaters (men and women) and our thought on it is, we cant or wont change anyones mind, so why bother trying. we dont police other peoples lives. we are NOT the marraige police. If we find a cheater who happens to float our boats, we feel they are a match, we meet with them and see where it goes.

 

it might not be right, but its how we feel.

[Irishsakura 17]

Cheating spouses are a TOTAL turn off for me. I'm a single female in this lifestyle for one reason and that involves sex with BOTH wife and husband. I can understand scheduling conflicts but if there is anything that turns me off the most is that I am participating in an act of deception.

 

Nothing turns me on more (well, there is one other thing) then for a loving married couple willing to share part of themselves with me and allow me to feed on their nectar. I don't mean to get corny but talk about tasting the sweet juices of love!

 

Cheating is such a mean thing to do. And I HATE meanies!

 

Actions like this causes nothing but destruction and I seriously don't understand how sex could be pleasurable knowing that.

[LetsParty 17]

Wow!

 

So far the score is about 9 to 1 in favor of kickin' that homewreckin' lifestyler to the curb!

 

LOL!

 

Great thread so far. Thanks everyone!...

[spectraschain 21]

If we find a cheater who happens to float our boats, we feel they are a match, we meet with them and see where it goes.

We concur. Unpopular as it may be.

 

We have long since surrendered any moral highground pertaining to the judgement of others........and would ask the same in return.

[Spoomonkey 421]

meandher2go said:

we are NOT the marriage police.

 

You police your own marriage, right?

 

Why allow potential drama into your own marriage?

 

Seems a little silly - maybe even irresponsible - to me...

[lovinher 505]

A cheating spouse who doesnt repect the rules of their own marriage will not respect the rules of your marriage. The trust just could not be there for me.

[flkeyscouple 21]

A cheating spouse who doesn't respect the rules of their own marriage will not respect the rules of your marriage. The trust just could not be there for me.

Very well said, lovinher! This sums up our feelings about cheating spouses in swing situations!

[spectraschain 21]

.....turns out we're the irresponsibles.

 

Still, we believe we'll leave the "policing" of others to the "clergy" here.

 

We simply do not have the where-with-all...........

[bill&sabrina 22]

Spoomonkey said:

You police your own marriage, right?

 

Why allow potential drama into your own marriage?

 

Seems a little silly - maybe even irresponsible - to me...

 

And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?

[Mr. Truelove 81]

bill&sabrina said:

And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?

Not in mine.

[Rvrtas 15]

The Fuse said:

I don't see anything wrong with "judging" their actions... in fact, not doing so is abdicating responsibility, which is what they themselves are doing. They are asking you to throw in with them, to validate them, by not caring about the consequences of their actions to others.

 

Why do people fall for this? Seriously, why do they?

 

We could not agree more. Mrs. Fuse has hit the nail squarely on the head. We are the first to admit we "judge" often. When we meet a couple, don't feel the connection and decline to play, we can't call that anything other than "judgement". We make no apologies for this.

 

We have no tolerance for cheaters. If we chose to play with someone so dismissive of the feelings of a cheating partner's spouse, we would indeed be abdicating responsibility. If some feel that is politically incorrect, let the PC Police come chase us down; far better that than wrestling with our own conscience.

[cutecouple39 15]

no one seems as if they are being judgemental...everyone is voicing there own oppinions here. My wife and I inparticular would not swing with a married man or married woman without there spouses knowledge. Thats just our opinion its alot like I prefer Pepsi and you prefer Coke... whatever floats your boat. It may work for some couples but not for us we know where that feeling of someone could be cheating on me can lead its not a pretty site.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Thank you, Rvrtas.

 

I feel a little badly for having gone off in the "judging" direction, after the OP's statement that they weren't looking for that... so now I'll just say "No, we don't do that". We've been approached a few times by cheating husbands and the answer is always no.

[intuition897 2,179]

And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?

 

Hell no. Just a badly needed dose of reality. Drama implies something based on the imaginary. Acting. Fictitious bullshit. Cheating is ALL about lying and fiction and the imagined. Swinging is non-fiction. It makes you face reality; cheating allows you to lie to yourself and to others.

 

Lots of great insights in this thread!! Spoo, Mrs. Fuse, NakedInSeattle... your sentiments are right on target! I'm all for sexual liberty, too, but cheating is not about sex. I have no problem with having sex with these same cheaters...if they weren't lying to and hurting someone they supposedly hold dear. It's like watching someone pull the wings off flies and not saying anything about it. Just because it's not your wings getting plucked or not you doing the plucking doesn't make you blameless. If you see abuse and condone it, it's the same - in my mind - as doing it yourself. Would you walk past someone beating a dog with a stick? I doubt it. To me, playing with a cheater is like handing them the stick to emotionally beat their spouse with. We just can't do it. We REQUIRE honesty...otherwise the chemistry just isn't there. Cheating just kills an erection.

[cutecouple39 15]

bill&sabrina said:

And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?

 

Swinging introduces a lot of things into our marriage but certainly not Drama.

[spectraschain 21]

kinda new to this

Yeah, but he's cute as a button...

[Tybee Swing 286]

Would you walk past someone beating a dog with a stick? I doubt it. To me, playing with a cheater is like handing them the stick to emotionally beat their spouse with. We just can't do it. We REQUIRE honesty...otherwise the chemistry just isn't there.

 

We couldn't agree more. This is precisely how we feel.

 

In our case, Mr. Tybee has been cheated on in a past marriage. We could no more be a partner in causing someone else's pain (which is all too close to home, especially for Mr. Tybee) than we could stand to cheat on each other.

[cutecouple39 15]

Yeah, but he's cute as a button...

 

I might be cute but his wife is cuter

[flkeyscouple 21]

And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?

No, it doesn't! Not in the least! Cheating is drama. Swinging is honesty! HUGE difference!!

[bill&sabrina 22]

No, it doesn't! Not in the least! Cheating is drama. Swinging is honesty! HUGE difference!!

 

Jesus fucking christ. Exclamation points and yelling? Is that really needed? My mistake for thinking my point would be figured out. I'm pleased as punch for those of you that haven't encountered drama, but the odds are good you will have to deal with it as a swinger. This board is full of posts about drama being forced on people, but those people must be lying. Swingers are all honest, and don't bring any drama with them. What was I thinking for suggesting that a lifestyle where you have sex with someone other than your partner, could lead to unwanted drama. I guess I was stupid to suggest that.

[spectraschain 21]

Swingers are all honest, and don't bring any drama with them.

We find it rather ironic that people here hold this "lifestyle" beyond contestation.

 

As if to say, "we swing honestly, therefore we are."

[spectraschain 21]

"we swing honestly, therefore we are."

Let us expound on this for a moment....

 

On second thought, let's not....this is best left to a new thread. Please, you here that fear not to be judged by the same yardstick you judge others by, feel free to participate.

 

Forthcoming.......

[tribbles 490]

If someone tells us they are married (and cheating) before we meet, we don't meet.

 

More than once at a club, after we play, we find single guys are married or a couple is married but not to each other.

 

And who knows how often that happens but they never admit it?

 

We work to avoid playing with cheaters but we are sure it happens.

[Mr. Truelove 81]

bill&sabrina said:

Jesus fucking christ. Exclamation points and yelling? Is that really needed? My mistake for thinking my point would be figured out. I'm pleased as punch for those of you that haven't encountered drama, but the odds are good you will have to deal with it as a swinger. This board is full of posts about drama being forced on people, but those people must be lying. Swingers are all honest, and don't bring any drama with them. What was I thinking for suggesting that a lifestyle where you have sex with someone other than your partner, could lead to unwanted drama. I guess I was stupid to suggest that.

 

I think what people are saying is that bringing swinging into their marriage didn't bring drama into their relationship. Between spouses. From this post of yours, you seem to be referring to that when swinging with other couples, sometimes there is some sort of drama in the relationship between couples. (or singles even)

 

I think this is actually an agreement. Yes, by being swingers you open yourself up to the possibility you will run across couples (or singles) that create drama. However, I think most people try to minimize that risk. After all, like most profiles read, "We don't want drama!" So by not playing with cheaters this is a step in that direction.

 

It would seem to me that a person that is cheating on his wife, likely will treat you with the same lack of respect. In fact, I go so far as to say that when we are out with another couple, I look for signs of affection to show me how secure they are. Because that security, that love for each other, is exactly the sign that shows me there likely won't be any of this drama. It was even brought up in a thread by TNT: Do You Touch?

 

When you swing with a cheater there is also a opportunity for the spouse to find out he/she was cheating and retaliate at you. That's some drama I certainly would never want to be in.

 

I think that your original post of "And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?" was a statement provoking exactly the type of response that you received.

[havefuninsun 122]

I'm a firm believer that what goes around, comes around. Karma is a funny, funny thing. Therefore, while I understand why someone might cheat, and what draws people to think that the grass is greener on the other side, I don't know of anyone who has crossed that line that didn't pay the price for it. And most can't say it was worth it. It's called drama -- and at the end of the day, they wished they didn't have to deal with all that drama.

 

With all that said, do we want any part of that? No we don't. This is about fun and adventure, not about hurt and lawsuits. And I assure you; if you want your swing life to be very private, and you pick your partners by their trustworthiness (as well as other attributes), adding a wild card to the mix completely nixes all that safe planning.

 

So for those who don't mind playing with cheating spouses, that's your decision. For those who find playing with cheaters a bad thing, that's (our) decision as well.

[spectraschain 21]

adding a wild card to the mix

What sound advice.....nothing the least bit "wild" about the activities associated with the theme of this board........

 

When do you stop to look over your shoulder...seriously?

[intuition897 2,179]

What sound advice.....nothing the least bit "wild" about the activities associated with the theme of this board........

 

When do you stop to look over your shoulder...seriously?

 

I'd be curious to know just what your opinion of swinging actually is? Do you consider it to be wrong, immoral and unnatural or something? Because we don't. We being Mr. intuition and I; I can't speak for anyone else. Wild? Yes, I suppose it is an activity that pushes the envelope, but I feel that anything less than 100% is less than living to our full potential. So we do what makes us feel fully alive. Swinging does this for us. NOTHING we have ever done before it or since compares to its intensity or vitality enhancing effect on us or our relationship. Cheating just doesn't fit into our philosophy. Yes, we're idealists, but we don't apologize for it. Without idealists, Man would be screwed. No hope = screwed.

 

I dunno. For us, bottom line is that swinging is moral, and cheating is not. Sex has nothing to do with it.

[spectraschain 21]

Quote

Do you consider it to be wrong, immoral and unnatural

Not at all. "or something" would be my stand.

Quote

NOTHING we have ever done before it or since compares to its intensity or vitality enhancing effect on us or our relationship.

Nothing? This is a "religious" experience for you? Is this "the one thing" that you searched for far & wide for through life's journey? The regard that this "lifestyle" is held in by those here is borderline fanatical.

 

Quote

Cheating just doesn't fit into our philosophy.

This argument no longer encompasses "cheating". It's morphed into a question of whether or not this truly is "the only one way to live". You tell me. Am I missing some greater calling that only swinging can deliver? And must I play "according to Hoyle" to derive the full benefit? I recall the words honesty, trustworthiness, judgement... scattered throughout this thread...

 

Here we thought it was about sex.

 

intuition, we've sparred in the past on this very same piece of ground, and I appreciate your insights. I play the devil's advocate, because one can break a leg when falling from a tall horse...

[tribbles 490]

Here we thought it was about sex.

 

Actually, for many of us, it's not about sex.

 

It's about the activities, that can be sexual, and how they enhance our relationship.

[intuition897 2,179]

Nothing? This is a "religious" experience for you? Is this "the one thing" that you searched for far & wide for through life's journey? The regard that this "lifestyle" is held in by those here is borderline fanatical.

I'm not sure what you want me to say here. Religious experience? Extramarital sex? No, not quite. But the things within my relationship with Mr. intuition that swinging highlights or punctuates have been something like a religious experience, yes. It's not the sex that I'm extolling the virtues of. It's the opportunities that it affords our relationship that I love.

 

This argument no longer encompases "cheating". It's morphed into a question of whether or not this truly is "the only one way to live". You tell me. Am I missing some greater calling that only swinging can deliver? And must I play "according to Hoyle" to derive the full benefit? I recall the words honesty, trustworthiness, judgement... scattered thoughout this thread...

You talk as though you weren't a swinger. Is this the case? All I know is that FOR ME/US, I wouldn't live any other way. Anything else would simply not feel as honest or natural. You can play however you want and it's nothing to me. Just because I have an opinion about it doesn't mean you have to listen to me. And vice versa.

 

Here we thought it was about sex.

Depends on who you ask. If you ask me, it's about putting sex in its place and not allowing the tail to wag the dog anymore. It's about purposely de-idolizing sex and using it responsibly to improve our lives and relationships.

 

intuition, we've sparred in the past on this very same piece of ground, and I appreciate your insights. I play the devil's advocate, because one can break a leg when falling from a tall horse...

Meh...keeps things interesting.

[Chicup 42]

This topic brings up bad memories for me of a certain 'hot wife' thread we had a while back.

 

I'll just put my thoughts down in a nut shell.

 

1. Do I think its ethically wrong to swing with cheaters? Yes.

 

2. Do I feel I'm being a marriage police in thinking this? No, I'm not arresting you just stating my opinion.

 

3. Do I really care about it? No. Its not something I would be comfortable doing on more than one level, but in a swinging sense the guy (or woman) had already made up their mind to cheat, the only question is who will accommodate them. I'm much less forgiving of the 'hot wifers' due to the seduction aspect of a guy who wasn't really looking for it. This is a guy who may get caught up in the seduction only to feel guilty about it for the rest of his life, or worse ruin someones marriage and drastically alter their future. Its preying on someones weakness.

[WesternSwing 504]

What sound advice.....nothing the least bit "wild" about the activities associated with the theme of this board........

 

When do you stop to look over your shoulder...seriously?

Well, this got way off tangent, now didn't it?

 

I think what havefuninsun meant by:

With all that said, do we want any part of that? No we don't. This is about fun and adventure, not about hurt and lawsuits. And I assure you; if you want your swing life to be very private, and you pick your partners by their trustworthiness (as well as other attributes), adding a wild card to the mix completely nixes all that safe planning.

had nothing to do with whether or not our activities are views as "wild" by some, but rather someone using us to cheat on their spouse adds an element into swinging that we can't control... the hurt and or jealous spouse that could cause at the least drama for us. This drama could range anywhere from a simple angry phone call to physical, emotional, or financial harm to us.

 

The term "wild card" was used to describe an uncontrollable variable, not a specific life activity.

 

I'm sure you saw this too, and as you say are just playing the devil's advocate with your above face-value statement.

 

Mr. WS

[spectraschain 21]

Just because I have an opinion about it doesn't mean you have to listen to me.

I like to listen to you...as do others here...your opinion is valuable to me.

 

Sure, I rattle a few chains now & again, but you will find my targets are the insightful, opinionated, somewhat excitable participants.

 

Thank you, ma'am, for indulging me from time to time...if in fact you care to tell me to go f**k myself, I understand and will do as told...

[havefuninsun 122]

Well, this got way off tangent, now didn't it?

 

I think what havefuninsun meant by: had nothing to do with whether or not our activities are views as "wild" by some, but rather someone using us to cheat on their spouse adds an element into swinging that we can't control... the hurt and or jealous spouse that could cause at the least drama for us. This drama could range anywhere from a simple angry phone call to physical, emotional, or financial harm to us.

 

The term "wild card" was used to describe an uncontrollable variable, not a specific life activity.

 

I'm sure you saw this too, and as you say are just playing the devil's advocate with your above face-value statement.

 

Mr. WS

 

Thanks, WS -- that is what I meant.

 

Our activities are risky. That is a fact. It is MORE risky if we are playing with someone who's spouse doesn't know what is going on. THAT person hasn't given their blessings, they're not in part of the trusted group.

 

You're right; just because I *think* you're trustworthy doesn't mean you are. The hurt spouse I can guarantee isn't trustworthy; why would they be? What do they have to lose?

 

The non-knowing spouse is a wild card -- I don't know how they will behave with the knowledge of playing. I'm not willing to take that risk.

[clutch 28]

Currently, we're monogamous with another couple, so this isn't an issue.

 

However, I would never promote a relationship with a cheating husband or wife for practical reasons.

 

The first and greatest being the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States--namely the fact that U.S. Citizens have the right to bear arms. Fortunately, back in the day, we never had that middle of the night phone call with a shrieking spouse accusing us of a-whoring with his wife or husband with a lot of associated physical threats.

 

We did hear stories of others who had received such phone calls and vowed that they'd be more careful about who they shared a bed with.

 

We have had, back in the day, threesomes with married men or women who were in open relationships--ie their spouse would drop them off and kiss them goodbye for their "date." It wasn't for us, though. Our personal preference is couple/couple.

 

As far as actually, personally judging someone for cheating, I kind of lean toward "Let him without sin cast the first stone." Whether someone cheats or not is his/her business. I won't hate or condemn them for that. I just won't be the one they cheat with--again, because I value my life and health.

[bill&sabrina 22]

Mr. Truelove said:

I think that your original post of "And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?" was a statement provoking exactly the type of response that you received.

 

Yes a few people can say loud and proud swinging hasn't caused any problems for them. Its sad though, that the point is ignored.

[Mr. Truelove 81]

bill&sabrina said:

Yes a few people can say loud and proud swinging hasn't caused any problems for them. Its sad though, that the point is ignored.

 

Please explain then. What is this point that is being ignored? I tried to read as much as possible into your short retort, but apparently I missed it.

[flkeyscouple 21]

Please explain then. What is this point that is being ignored? I tried to read as much as possible into your short retort, but apparently I missed it.

I, too, am confused. I can honestly say loud and proud swinging hasn't caused any problems for them because swinging HASN'T caused ANY problems for us. So.. what is your point "Its sad though, that the point is ignored." I don't understand that comment. Can you explain??

 

Mrs. FLKeys

[iapr 24]

Hi All!

 

I haven’t posted here in a while, but we just met a couple last night, who had a slightly different take on the Lifestyle, and I was curious about your thoughts.

 

They do some “cheat and greets” now and again. They may meet a couple and each go out alone with the other’s spouse. Or she may meet another guy, have some fun, and come home and tell the husband, etc. Him, too, on occasion.

 

That’s all fine and dandy – hotwife… whatever it’s called.

 

But here is where it gets a bit bizarre:

 

The “hot wife” often sleeps with married men who are cheating on their own wives. These are also men in her everyday, vanilla world. A colleague from the same company; trainer from the gym; old friend; business networking group, etc.

 

All these guys are married and cheating.

 

My partner and I are never ones to judge others. We always believed the more open people are with sex, the Lifestyle, open-marriages, fetishes, honesty, etc. etc. the better.

 

We’ve always said that the Lifestyle is not just about sex. Sex is the result of honesty, communication, open-mindedness, etc. I know you all understand, but the average vanilla may not.

 

The woman kept telling us, “It’s not MY sin!”; “I’M not lying!”; “That’s the GUY’s problem!”… And the husband kinda laughed at it.

 

I dunno.

 

Are we turning old-fashioned and prude?

 

Or is there really just something “unlifestyle-esque” about doing it with these cheating men from the community. It’s not that we looked at this woman and “lost respect” for her… but, Hmmm… as open-minded as we are, these people have WIVES sitting at home, thinking their husbands are at business meetings.

 

What do you think?

 

I understand that not all lifestylers have occasional separate activities, and to each his or her own. I’m not one to judge and say whether or not that enhances or detracts from a marriage. It’s going off with married, cheating men that kinda make my partner and I look at each other and go “gulp.”

 

I am so curious to hear your opinions!

 

 

I have not read the other 4 pages of responses so this is just addressing my views on the OP. My humble opinion is you are correct and that this is very unlifestyle-esque and that at best gives swinging a very bad name. This is the type of thing that vanillas fear from swingers is that we will be screwing their partners behind their back. IMHO this is ammoral, unethical and just downright slutty. Call me judgemental all you want this is just plain adultery and cheating and homewrecking and it is being done by someone who calls herself(it'sself) a swinger.

 

I agree with you that so much of the lifestyle is about the openness and honesty and being open minded to others preferences etc. I don't see where any of that comes into play when you are fucking someone behind their partners back. That is just fucking.

 

I am also pretty appalled that she would just laugh off that it is not "her sin", I agree that the guys sticking it into her are the ones that have the obligation to their spouse but is she so desparate for sex and attention and approval that she is willing to ruin other peoples marriages and have innocent children being bounced from one parent to the next every weekend just so she can get some cock which she can get whenever she wants anyway?

 

If you are old fashioned and prude, I am right there with you and hope that many of the other folks on here are too.

[lovinher 505]

I haven't read all four pages either. I don't need to because this is easy. There is no explanation or excuse that changes my take on this. In my opinion the people playing with cheaters (men or women) are just as _____________ as the cheater. To me it says something about their character and ethics.