Is swinging morally acceptable?

[sweet_tna 680]

Is swinging morally acceptable? Who am I to decide this for anyone but myself? And to what part(s) of swinging is this judgement to be applied? Everyone plays differently, so what may work for Mr. Sweet and me may not work for Intuition, Spoo, or the OP.

 

Of course, Mr. Sweet and I would not choose to swing if we were morally opposed to it. Our basic credo in all things is the ole' "Do unto others as you would have done to you." We strive to treat others with respect. And in regard to swinging (specifically), we do our best to please our playmates.

 

For me, if you try to live up to what you believe (which hopefully involves respecting others), it's all good.

[billanderin 18]

My wife and I still consider ourselves Christians - we believe that Jesus is the son of God and the most perfect man. We believed that we are saved by faith and the sacrifice of our Lord and saviour. Our family worships in our church (Catholic) every Sunday. We believe in mutual respect within a Christian marriage. We have been swinging over 10 years and see no moral issues with it. Sex between us has gotten much better and intense in the years we have been swinging. It has made us better and more sensitive to one anothers needs. I beleive some of Pauls epistles are a bit off base regarding sex (not to mention women!) and I believe Jesus himself would have had a much more liberal view of a swinging lifestyle.

[Zedd 30]

adds new meaning to "swing" low sweet chariot, cumming for to take me home..........

[JandKinBoise 856]

One thing I have noticed is that swingers do tend to have some strong feelings on religion. My opinion, shared by many, is "whatever gets you through the day" I tried being a born again christian way back in the 80s. Never had I dealt with so much guilt. I couldnt deal with being such a hypocrite so I bagged it. I should have gone your route and just decided that Jesus was probably misunderstood and would be fine with my lifestyle. I mean really...with the dozens of religions, many way different from others, not to mention the many versions of Christianity, people must be adjusting their beliefs to fit their lifestyle.

[Alura 2,773]

When the Roman Emperor Constantine (306 - 337 AD; not a believer until he was on his death bed) decided (for political reasons) that Christianity was to be the State Religion of the Roman Empire he ordered the Council of Nicaea (325 AD) to compile the Bible from existing writings. He was not above imposing exile (a Roman punishment just this side of the death sentence) on anyone who disagreed with his choice of those writings which were to be included in the Bible.

 

Probably because the writings of Saul of Tarsus ("Saint Paul") were closer to encompassing Roman cultural beliefs of the time, they were included. The Gnostic gospels, The Gospel of Thomas and The Gospel of Mary Magdalene, both of which showed a decidedly different perspective of Jesus of Nazareth's teachings, were not. (Roman history verifies Jesus' existance and his death by crucifixion, a Roman punishment usually reserved for inciting insurgency. Had he been executed by the Jews for false teachings, he would have been stoned to death.)

 

The Gnostic gospels were discovered buried in Nag Hammadi, Egypt, circa 1846, but first came to light in Cairo in 1896. Mary Magdelene is known to have fled to Egypt immediately after Jesus' crucifixion. It is not known whether she buried the writings or an exile from the Council of Nicaea did so.

 

Jesus spoke little about sex and nothing about homosexuality. It is quite likely that he was married to Mary Magdelene. The few single men who existed were shunned by Jewish society as "incomplete" and were not allowed to speak in the temples. Jesus spoke there often. He was known to kiss Mary Magdelene on the lips. Some believe they produced a son, Judah.

 

Saul of Tarsus, a misogynist, railed against sex. Some historians believe he was ugly, perhaps a hunch-backed dwarf, not the type of man after whom women lusted. He believed that God was super pissed off that his only son had been crucified and would surely destroy the world any minute now. Anything that distracted one from attaining salvation, including sex, was not to be indulged.

 

Saul of Tarsus never met Jesus; Mary Magdalene loved him. Who is more believable?

[Chicup 41]

Being I don't find my morality in religious texts, I am always amazed that this is an issue.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Atheist pokes his head in.....

 

....wonders why people attempt to find approval in ancient words which have been translated and retranslated to a point where you can't be sure of anything subtle...

 

....goes back to being a godless and happy person.

 

I think religion is one of those things that some people grew up with and it's hard to de-tangle one's self from what they grew up with. If they give up on it, people start to feel lost and confused about who they are, what life is, how much of what they thought they knew is no longer true...it can be frightening to be in a position of doubt.

 

I think it also speaks to how important it is for each and every one of us to feel validated. As children, we want to be validated by our parents. When we grow up and find out that they are humans, just like us, and fallible then we reach out to another Parent(s) who is not fallible and want to gain His/Her approval. For those who are atheist or agnostic, then perhaps they have grown beyond desiring validation or they find it within their peers.

 

I have yet to come to my own conclusions in regards to the OP and hope to do so and respond accordingly in the future.

[Chicup 41]

I think religion is one of those things that some people grew up with and it's hard to de-tangle one's self from what they grew up with. If they give up on it, people start to feel lost and confused about who they are, what life is, how much of what they thought they knew is no longer true...it can be frightening to be in a position of doubt.

 

I think it also speaks to how important it is for each and every one of us to feel validated. As children, we want to be validated by our parents. When we grow up and find out that they are humans, just like us, and fallible then we reach out to another Parent(s) who is not fallible and want to gain His/Her approval. For those who are atheist or agnostic, then perhaps they have grown beyond desiring validation or they find it within their peers.

 

I have yet to come to my own conclusions in regards to the OP and hope to do so and respond accordingly in the future.

 

From my perspective, if someone needs a book to know its bad to kill people or the like, I really don't want to hang around that person. Now I don't think this is the case, their have been studies to show that much of what we call morality is innate, and part of being a social animal. The problem lies in the things like sex, or diet, or dress, which are also covered in said texts.

 

As Alura pointed out, there is reason to believe the Bible is for lack of a better term "corrupted".

 

I know what my wife and I do in swinging is not hurting anyone, and I'm not exactly worried about my immortal soul being tied to those activities. It makes me sad for those who can't separate this and are homosexual or living with a abusive spouse (though the various Churches seem MUCH more open to divorce these days than they used to be).

[Fundamental Law 2,882]

Responding to the title question of the thread:

 

Yes.

[intuition897 2,179]

It's amazing how much my beliefs have changed since my first post on this thread. I have lost patience entirely with semantics and my eyes glaze over when someone attempts to draw me into an argument over needlepoint-fine details that distract from the real issues and problems.

 

Yes, I still believe there is a God, because I want to. I just don't believe in God the way I've been taught to. A life lived without hope, a life lived where I am left to believe that my species is the pinnacle of intelligence in our known universe, that the buck stops here, is...well...crushing, actually. In the absence of proof either way, we get to choose what we want to believe, so I'd prefer to believe in something that makes my life more functional and meaningful. Just because. The multiple-life theory has its merits, too.

 

Is swinging morally acceptable? It sure is, and here's why: it's morally acceptable to me, and that's all I need to know. Each person just needs to be concerned with their own soul. That's it. If you believe it's morally objectionable, then don't do it. You can be concerned for my soul if you like, and you can tell me so, but beyond that, it's my responsibility...so you can relax. I think swinging is gratifying, enriching, and a soul-expanding practice, one that has enhanced my marriage tremendously. For me, it is a very positive and uplifting thing. And if I'm wrong and have to face a judgment day for my decisions, so be it. I'm a big girl and I'll gladly take my lumps; I have made the best decisions possible using the woefully incomplete set of data I was given. And if I'm going to be unfairly penalized for not making perfect decisions, for making mistakes and not being given the opportunity to learn from them or rectify them, then I'll walk myself down the fucking plank and do a 10-point swan dive into the bloody lake of fire unassisted. I refuse to follow any god whose virtues could be outshone by my own... 'cause that ain't saying much for Him.

[Wornsilver 219]

While some would say this is an unlikely place to find confessions of faith and erudite discussions of theology, I have been fascinated and charmed...and once again amazed at the wisdom, general acceptance of views and the polite demeanor of this set of writers. It is especially amazing when you look at the typical chaff on the internet.

 

As an aside, I am thinking of founding some sort of twelve-step program for those of us who need to stop reading comments on the internet.

 

Yup, I read the whole thread. Top to bottom. Took me two sittings, but it was worth it. I have expressed my amazement at the decorum of this group before, but it is good.

 

The discussion of morality immediately turned to religion because that is what is most likely our personal original source of such guidance. But the conclusion seems to be that the determination of morality on each issue should be determined by the individual using all the resources available, not just one doctrine. I would submit that some people have the mental energy to make such judgments, and others do not. For some, it is just easier to accept what is given to us by some authority, like representatives of a religion.

 

For my own path, I have chosen one that tries to respect the teaching of the great religions, but I just can't participate. The shocking revelation that piety is so often overruled by less admirable human qualities, like hypocrisy and greed, hit me so hard as a young man that I have never recovered. Marx was pretty right, but Tammy Faye and her ilk? Not so much.

 

I am old now, nearly 70, but my "inside" feels like it is 40 and I'm amazed at the old guy looking back at me from the mirror. My swinging days are probably over, not at all from some morality determination but for the same reasons that my major league pitching career is over (it actually never started). My wife is as sexy as can be, but she thinks we are too old to swing. I suspect she is right in this culture that glorifies youth and lacks respect for "elders", but that 40-year old inside me holds out hope. We have never had any issues with the morality business, though, since we are absolutely committed to each other in a way I could never have imagined, and in a way that is likely not known to some who are preaching and was especially absent from the writing of Paul.

 

To Intuition upon her discovery that her beliefs have changed--get used to it. We change a lot, and those first comments were seven years ago? And ten years since you joined? Thanks so much for your articulate comments. To the other posters, what a wonderful discussion. Special kudos to Spoo for the Google Map illustration of perspective. Thanks to Chris and Amelia for the best avatar on the web. Thanks to Alura for wisdom dispensed over many years. And to singleagain for the start. A gathering of you folks could be one of the best ever--scintillating conversation and amazing sex. Wow.

 

Keep it up.

[intuition897 2,179]

While some would say this is an unlikely place to find confessions of faith and erudite discussions of theology, I have been fascinated and charmed...and once again amazed at the wisdom, general acceptance of views and the polite demeanor of this set of writers. It is especially amazing when you look at the typical chaff on the internet.

 

Well...not always dainty-mouthed, but I guess we know our manners. I'm almost embarrassed to tell people how fond I am of some of the members of this board, whom I wouldn't know to see in real life. I know their avatars and I know their minds. I would like to think that SB board members are among the privileged few who get to see the real me, or at least the me I strive to be. I see that in others here, too. Swingersboard is an unlikely place to find such camaraderie, but maybe that itself is a testament to the characters of those who choose to venture down this rabbit hole.

 

The discussion of morality immediately turned to religion because that is what is most likely our personal original source of such guidance. But the conclusion seems to be that the determination of morality on each issue should be determined by the individual using all the resources available, not just one doctrine. I would submit that some people have the mental energy to make such judgments, and others do not. For some, it is just easier to accept what is given to us by some authority, like representatives of a religion.

 

I personally find it more exhausting to try to make myself conform to something through blind faith. I don't know how anyone can do it and sleep at night.

 

I don't know if we really can have a discussion about morality and swinging without involving religion because it seems to be mainly religious conventions that forbid it. Even those who are decidedly atheist will submit to the institution of marriage. Even a marriage at the court house presided over by a justice of the peace comes wrapped in the same shaped box...it's just got a different label on it. Monogamy is the default, but no one really questions it. They just assume it's the only way to do things, and the best way. Non-monogamy is taboo, and the culture that created this taboo was sculpted by a chisel and a bible. (You know, for thumping the chisel.)

 

For my own path, I have chosen one that tries to respect the teaching of the great religions, but I just can't participate. The shocking revelation that piety is so often overruled by less admirable human qualities, like hypocrisy and greed, hit me so hard as a young man that I have never recovered. Marx was pretty right, but Tammy Faye and her ilk? Not so much.

 

As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ. But I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

 

I am old now, nearly 70, but my "inside" feels like it is 40 and I'm amazed at the old guy looking back at me from the mirror.

 

You're singing my song. I'm 39, feel 59 most days, and look in the mirror and wonder why I don't look like 29.

 

We have never had any issues with the morality business, though, since we are absolutely committed to each other in a way I could never have imagined, and in a way that is likely not known to some who are preaching and was especially absent from the writing of Paul.

 

This is the part that most people misunderstand. They make all kinds of assumptions about what sex with other people "means" to a marriage. For us, it means absolutely nothing. Because I'd like to think we have something that a bodily function - a simple animal instinct - can't corrupt. And I'd like to think that swingers (the ones who understand swinging, that is) have a better understanding of what makes a real marriage. And that commitment to monogamous sex is a pretty shabby yardstick to use to gauge the success of your relationship.

 

To Intuition upon her discovery that her beliefs have changed--get used to it. We change a lot, and those first comments were seven years ago? And ten years since you joined?

 

*sigh* Yup, just seem to keep peeling that onion, one layer of skin at a time.

 

A gathering of you folks could be one of the best ever--scintillating conversation and amazing sex. Wow.

 

Keep it up.

 

LOL, I guess we need to organize a Swingersboard hotel/resort/cruiseship take-over or something for a giant convention.