Could my wife be bi?

[ebarz 15]

First I would like to say my wife and I have been married for nearly 18 years, have 5 wonderful kids and a successful business. In all that time she has never been all that big on sex. She has put on negligee twice for me in 18 years. She is very beautiful, somewhat self-conscious.

 

She knows how important sex and the release it provides to me is, so she does try to meet my needs but more like it is her responsibility than her desire, her chores. I seriously only want her to be fulfilled. I can only think of one time, when I think she may have had orgasm - orally. We have only been sexual with each other, so its kinda the blind leading the blind. Although we have discussed this many times, she insists she's not gay.

 

One time many years ago she did say "I don't know maybe I'm gay or something" She is very "old school" and conservative when it comes to sex. I bought her a vibrator once, hoping that she would use it, even in private by herself to learn about herself, never did. In my younger days I would cope by just not going to bed until I was exhausted, so I could sleep. Although that may be why our business is now successful

 

I guess I'm just wondering if any other women or men have ever been in this situation, if so what would you suggest?? I love her I just wish she could...

[cuzzeyesaidso 31]

So where does the bi part come in again?

[ebarz 15]

well I guess I just wondering if her lack of interest couldn't be long term denial??

[hudsoncouple 15]

Maybe she is gay, but most likely is simply low sex drive. This is very common and if she wants to enjoy sex it is very easily treated. The understanding is that sex drive is controlled by testosterone levels (androgens) in both females and males. Females with low sex drive usually have very low testosterone levels, which can be increased with supplements. However, she should really talk to her MD if she wants to start supplements because it has some risks. There are also natural ways to increase testosterone production, the most common of which is sports! It seems that physical activity has shown to increase testosterone production in both males and females. So you don't only get fit... you get more horny too :-) A win win situation! Cheers, T.

[good times 991]

It wasn't that many years ago when the vast majority of women were exactly the way your wife is. I doubt if she is gay, you say she is very "old School", sounds to me like you are right. While she could go to the doctor and get a pill or try some other ways to increase her libido, that will only work if she wants to. If she just isn't interested in sex, their is nothing that I know of that anyone can do about it. Even though women are much more sexually liberated than they were in the recent past, I still know many women in the vanilla world who have very little interest in sex, and the married ones often look at it as a duty they perform for their husband to ensure marital harmony, rather than something they do for their pleasure. That being said, it also isn't uncommon for a womans libido to increase as she gets older.

[daisy girl 34]

actually...your wife seems like a lot of my vanilla friends. Many of them see themselves as "mothers" instead of "sexy divas who happen to have children." She should definitely go to a doctor and have her hormone levels checked. You both may also want to consider counseling so that you are more communicative with each other about your needs.

 

Does your wife think there is a problem?? Many of my vanilla friends don't see it as a problem...just life. Good luck.

[ebarz 15]

thank you, this is a very interesting site. And don't forget to tell your husbands just how fortunate they are!! lucky bastards !!

[Tybee Swing 286]

First I would like to say my wife and I have been married for nearly 18 years, have 5 wonderful kids and a scussesful business. In all that time she has never been all that big on sex. She has put on neglage twice for me in 18 years. She is very beatiful, somewhat self concious. She knows how important sex and the release it provides to me is, so she does try to meet my needs but more like its her responseiblity than her desire, her chores.

 

Hi ebarz, welcome to this board.

 

Your wife sounds like a very normal, typical American woman to me. Five kids (okay, this is much harder than normal), a business, a home to run, probably tons of activities with all those kids....she's probably exhausted. I would be. You're in a very normal, very typical situation. When life is so demanding, sex often falls to last place on the priority list, and there's only just so many hours in the day.

 

I can only think of one time, when I think she may have had orgasim-- orally.

 

Orgasm by oral or manual stimulation alone is normal. Statistics show that only a small percentage of women really orgasm by penetration without clitoral stimulation added. Since this is the one way she's had an orgasm, try focusing more on that. Hone your skills, tune into her and learn what works. Watch her reactions as you try different oral techniques. Sit down with her and ask her what she would really like, sexually. If she says taking more time, massages, etc...don't roll your eyes. For a woman, these things can really make the difference. Much more foreplay will usually do it for most women.

 

Women need to de-stress and unwind in order to even feel horny, let alone have an orgasm. She needs to be able to drop her worries and stresses of the day. This may take some time, including a ritual of relaxation. This is why soaking in a bath, sharing massages, etc are so helpful to so many women to be ready for quality sex.

 

Although we have disscussed this many times, she insists she's not gay.

 

I'm surprised you jump to the gay conclusion. Since you've discussed this with her so many times, it sounds like you've been harping on it. Back off of the gay thing. Instead of trying to find out what's "wrong" with her, find out what's right. Compliments with women go a long way. Tell her she's sexy and beautiful. You've said it before and she should know it by now? It doesn't work that way with women. We need to hear it from you. Don't forget lots of kisses and hugs, and tenderness even during non-sexual times (especially then). Make her feel appreciated. This is how it works with women.

 

Help to make her life easier. In the evening, tell her to go relax, take a bath, unwind while you do the dishes and get the kids ready for bed, pack their lunches for tomorrow (or whatever). A relaxed woman who is being supported that way is likely to have a chance to recharge her batteries and get herself in the mood for sex. If you don't know what you can do to help her relax and just help her in general, ask her. Don't make that conversation about sex, just ask her, "Honey, what can I do to help out around here and make your life easier?"

 

I guess I'm just wondering if any other women or men have ever been in this situation, if so what would you suggest??

 

A biggie....get her out of the house. When is the last time you took her on a real date, just the two of you? Tell her to buy herself something pretty to wear, you're taking her out to dinner. Make all the plans yourself - get a reservation, have a plan. Women love a man with a plan. If you haven't done this in a long time, start here. Get in the habit of treating her like your girlfriend, and see what happens! (Note - swinger husbands tend to treat their wives like their hot girlfriends, even in everyday life. at least mine does. ) Then, graduate to taking weekends away from the kids, the business, everything. Yeah, yeah....you have to get babysitters and make a lot of arrangements to get away, we know. Don't make excuses. If you want to improve your connection and your sex life, just do it. Nothing will stoke a woman's passion like some romantic time away from it all with just you.

 

With all the demands on women, being a mom and everything else, it's easy to forget how to be "just" a woman (like she was before all those kids and responsibilities), and how to be in touch with her passion and sexuality. You can help her by being supportive, romantic, and loving. You can do this. It might take some time, because it may be out of the norm of your routine for the past 18 years of marriage, but you can make changes. Good luck!

[intuition897 2,179]

Great observations and advice above. Especially Tybee.

 

I know you're anxious to "fix" this problem for her, but really, she's the only one who can. Each of us is responsible for their own sexual pleasure. All you can do is make her aware that you are available to her for support 24/7, that you are concerned about her happiness, and that you love her exactly the way she is...even the parts that she hides from you. And then you have to do just that when she tells you about the skeletons in her closet.

 

Everyone has a raw and somewhat ugly side to themselves. At least that's what we think of it before someone else accepts and loves it for what it is: real. You've known this woman for over 18 years. You have a life together, and all sorts of good things in it. You love her and you are connected to her. To HER; not to all the things she can do for you or give to you or add to your life. To her. She's more to you than what she can do for you.

 

It could be that she's harboring some bi-sexual curiosities; a very large number of women do (like, nearly all of them). It doesn't necessarily mean that she's truly bisexual or lesbian. If she enjoys sex with you at all, if she gets anything out of it, and she wants a partnership with you, that would make her bisexual at the most...not lesbian. I thought I might've been bisexual, so we tried that out. Turns out I'm not. Playing with women is...okay...but it's not something I crave. I just can't figure out what the hell makes them tick. I'll stick to what I know: men. The only way to find out is to not be afraid to ask the question. If you're both ready to know the answer, go ahead and start out with fantasy "what ifs". DO NOT jump into it by inviting another woman to bed with you. You just can't do that until you understand yourselves better first. The what-ifs can be discussed over coffee some morning after the kids have gone to school or Grandma's house, or maybe as pillow talk (before, during or after sex). You know one another, so you'll know best when discussion like this would work best. I know you'll say, "Yeah, like never!" But if you realize that it's a question that won't go away and it's imperitive that you ask it, you'll find a time and a way to screw up the courage to just blurt it out.

 

These kinds of discussions are down and dirty. Scary. Because you're uncovering things about one another's true feelings and it can be quite shocking. It's definitely a break from the norm, where these "uncomfortable truths" have been politely smoothed over for one another's sakes. No one wants to inconvenience or disturb their spouse with unpleasant things about one's self. It might make him or her not love us anymore. But what we've found is that, if you love one another, then even your most hidden angry feelings, even resentment, exists because of miscommunication and misunderstanding. If love is there, then neither of you truly wants to cause the other pain. When the hurt party expresses their pain and the reason for it, we feel horrible for having made them feel that way! And then we explain what it was that they misunderstood, and our true feelings for them, and suddenly miraculous changes start to happen. Love heals, man!

 

Who knows? Maybe your wife IS gay? I seriously doubt it, but for the sake of argument, let's say she is. Do you still love her? What do you want to do? Answer all the really big bad questions in your own head, and then approach her.

 

I hope my rambling has helped somewhat.

[iapr 24]

I don't think gay or bi has a thing to do with this situation at all. In my younger days I did seriously date a closet lesbian for a few years before she faced up to herself and "came out" and she was absolutely nothing like you describe. She was very sexually responsive and an enthusiastic lover but in the end she decided it was women that tripped her trigger and who she wanted to be with.

 

Intuition and tybee make some great advice and insights as always. While I certainly do wish you the best and hope you are both able to find satisfaction I do not see this as a swinger issue but rather a personal, maritial and sexual issue that would best be delt with through professional maritial and sexual therapy.

[ebarz 15]

I appricate all comments, this is so cool to be able to talk to total strangers about something so personal. I agree on many suggestions as a matter of fact I feel I have been doing most of those things since day one. I do feel that our communcation has suffered, mainly because I feel we have had this sex conversation many times but with little change, or little effort to change so why keep beating a dead horse. I have made many sacrifices to try to make her life easier, when our childern were born I took on more or less a third job so that she could be a stay at home mom. I probably give her five massages to every one she gives me, I help her in any way I can, with little return of appriciation sexual or otherwise. We never fight about anything, not spending, not child care, work responsibiltys, families, only this issue. I know that I am starting to feel a sence of resentment toward her. This issue is not new, I recall feeling shorted even on our honeymoon, before the kids and all the stresses that we put on ourselves. She does get horney, about once a month for about two hours! then back to the same familuer dry spell, witch is very hard for me to adjust to. I don't know what I'm asking for, maybe just letting off steam. sorry, and again thank you.

[Tybee Swing 286]

ebarz,

 

I'm more convinced than ever that you're in a very common situation. I used to frequent a lot of sex/marriage/relationship boards. I was even the community leader of one of them. On those boards, I heard your story from men over and over.

 

It's very common these days for women during their motherhood years to get completely caught up in mothering, placing the children above all. It's become more the norm than not - becoming "super moms". It's an exhausting task, and with five, I'm sure it saps all of her energy. Is it right? In my opinion, no. I feel that a family is mom and dad first, and children are an extension of that union. Children need lots of love, time and attention, but what about the parents? Often, the woman forgets to take care of herself being a martyr for those kids, and the man gets left by the wayside. It becomes all about the kids.

 

Have you thought about going to counseling? Sometimes a wife who is very entrenched in a mindset like yours is, who thinks that of course the children come first and that sex isn't all that important, believes she is right. Most other women she is in contact with, all the other super moms, feel the same way. You can convince her otherwise by letting her know that this is very serious for you. You are not happy, you're not getting your needs met. I'm not suggesting using threats, like saying you'll leave or look outside the marriage for comfort. But sometimes a woman needs a wakeup call to realize that this is serious. I highly suggest that you go to a counselor on your own first, and explain just what you've told us here - what your needs are and what your situation is. Let her know that you're going to counseling on your own. *Zing* - she'll snap out of her denial quickly and know this is for real. Upon your counselor's advice, invite her to join you in sessions. It's time for your wife to hear from a pro that "super-mommy" can kill a marriage.

[Tybee Swing 286]

In my younger days I would cope by just not going to bed untill I was exhausted, so I could sleep.

 

Ebarz, I'll bet that your wife doesn't know quite how hard all this has been on you all of these years. I'll bet she doesn't realize that you literally had to make yourself exhausted just so you could fall asleep. Most women don't know these things instinctively about men, you have to tell us. I would tell her all of this in a real heart-to-heart and see if you can't get through.

[intuition897 2,179]

Granted we're only hearing one side of this story, but so far it sounds like you're trying, and she's not. Her "cry for help" extends about as far as waiting for her knight in shining armour to come and rescue her from whatever unhappiness she's feeling. Almost like her silence and reluctance to communicate her problems is supposed to mean something to you.

 

I agree with Tybee: if you are seriously unhappy with what your wife has been offering you, let her know! It's not only fair to do so, it's your responsibility. I don't know if formal counselling is needed yet at this point, but a wake up call for her might be good.

[Cpl2share 147]

I can NOT stress this enough: Leave the sex alone for a while. That sounds very backwards, but what I mean is this: I doubt that your wife is stupid. If she is at all in the normal range of intelligence (sp?) she will see right through you. Concentrate on making her feel valuable and sexy not just sexual. If she feels that you find her attractive and desirable, not just that you are being nice and talking to her to get more sex, you will eventually get what you want too. The important thing is to build her up as a person not as a sex toy. In my experience (yep been right where you are, even had the doc test her testosterone, it was "normal") when I quit trying to get laid more, I did! Not only that, but my wife really "blossomed" sexually.

[prettylady 221]

Help to make her life easier. In the evening, tell her to go relax, take a bath, unwind while you do the dishes and get the kids ready for bed, pack their lunches for tomorrow (or whatever). A relaxed woman who is being supported that way is likely to have a chance to recharge her batteries and get herself in the mood for sex. If you don't know what you can do to help her relax and just help her in general, ask her. Don't make that conversation about sex, just ask her, "Honey, what can I do to help out around here and make your life easier?"

 

I can not agree with this point more.

I was an under appreciated wife. I did it all, kids, meals, cleaning, working full time. He worked, played baseball, hockey, golf, stag and doe parties. So I guess ya our lives were equally busy.

But when I met Dog it was....well weird. The first time he came over for dinner I prepared dinner and he stood in the kitchen the entire time chatting with me, not watching tv. Then after dinner HE cleared the table and washed the dishes while I prepared deserts. It has been the same ever since. I LOVE when he holds me from behind when we do up the dishes together. I love the fact that the tv and computer does not get turned on unless everything is cleared up and we are both ready to watch tv(or what ever is happening that evening).

Little things like this will have an effect. It may not be mind blowing sex right away, but it could be the appreciation, that will lead to tenderness, that will lead to making love, that will then lead to mind blowing sex.

**Making love and mind blowing sex are on even par with me in the "What makes a good marriage great" department. I would guess and "old school" girl may have issues with the mind blowing sex part, but be all in for making love.

 

I am also on board with the "get over the gay thing" issue. My sex life while married was.....good lord I have no words to discribe the level of ICK factor. I was tired and he was an ass.

I am not suggesting you are an ass, just that there are other factors that determine sex drive besides orientation.

 

If you have read more then one advice thread or post then my next point is just a repeat of great advice given by fantastic people. Communication is key.

I had no communication in my marriage, then Dog came around and after a few months I can talk about anything with him. I started with letters and emails to get my thoughts across to Dog because I was uncomfortable putting into words. It was a slow progression from NO communication to open communication, but if you both want to be truly happy it is a road well worth taking.

Best wishes to you both

Your friend,

Prettylady

[prettylady 221]

Sorry for the double post, but I just had one more thought

If your wife is not gay, or is gay and not ready to admit it to herself yet. Then pushing the issue or even bringing it up could be putting any chance for you to be getting any in the near future completely gone. If she is "old school" the thought that she maybe or you think she is, might be upsetting or even disturbing to her.

Inside the lifestyle bi sexuality is accepted as quite norm. Us "strait" girls are the exception. But outside of the lifestyle bisexuality is a "sick little fantasy" that strait guys have about women. That is very likely how she see's bi sexuality. When Dog and I first started in the lifestyle I had a NO BI clause with Dog. I soon learnt that just because the woman is bi does not mean anything more then she likes to have sex with both sexes. I am now comfortable with bi sexuality, but it took sometime. I would freeze up and get sulky when ever Dog said anything remotly suggestive about bi sexualy to me. You know what sulky girlfriend leads to....yep, a cold shower and a hand cramp.

If she is bi, let her figure that out for herself in her own time. When she is ready be supportive and loving. If she isn't bi, then drop it.

Your friend,

Prettlady

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Another thing to consider is that you may have never been sexually compatible.

 

What was sex like between you two before you got married? Since you mention "feeling shorted" on your honeymoon and there never has been a history of great sex, I've got to wonder if you didn't give enough importance to being matched well sexwise.

 

After 18 years she's got to be in the habit of handling sex the same old way. And as others have said, if she's not interested in changing that, she won't.

 

I think wondering if she's bi or a lesbian is pointless, when the real problem is her lack of interest in sex and what to do about it.

 

Maybe there is something about you and how you are sexually that isn't appealing to her. She would have a difficult time admitting this to you, but it is another angle to consider.

 

LM

[The Fuse 1,012]

I agree on many suggestions as a matter of fact I feel I have been doing most of those things since day one.

As many posters have suggested, has she had her hormone levels checked? If she just doesn't have a normal level of sex-drive-inducing hormones, it might not matter too much how many dishes you do.

 

And I wouldn't just ask her normal ob-gyn, unless he or she has a reputation of helping women with sex-related problems. Many doctors still tell women "It's all in your head", even in this day and age. Pisses me off to no end.

[ebarz 15]

Thanks to all who took the time to reply, Intuition you are correct, that is only one side of the story. I would have to admit that I am probably over driven, sexually. I need it often... How much is normal?? I'm sure that varys greatly , I know it does between the two of us. My problem is if I quietly wait for her to come around it will literaly happens once or twice a month! I need it once or five times a week! And it seems that if I take matters into my own (hands) it only adds to my fustration. Is that normal?? When I try to come on to my wife, and get turned down once, twice, three times.... I just feel like --- fine keeeeep it.. I'm not good at begging, to any one.. I tend to get kinda grumppy and down right hard to live with. Its either that way, or she gives it-machanically just to keep the peace but no feeling and that isn't hardly worth it either. I will try some of the suggestions. I'm tempted to tell her about this web page and let her read it but I don't know if that would be hurtful? I love this woman, and I do find her attrative and desirable. Any suggestion on how to curb my sexual appitite?? Short of casteration!!! Thanks, I wish everywhere was as laid back and cool as this forum.

[intuition897 2,179]

I'm all for honesty, ebarz, and within our own relationship, it's the only way. In your situation, Mr. intuition would be hurt if I didn't disclose what I had been doing or saying on a website. He'd be hurt if I tried to hide it from him. But I don't know your wife. I'd suggest bringing her to the forum because it would be useful to hear her side of the story. We're a relatively harmless bunch, and we just like to help. But that may be irrelevant. She may be pissed that you're discussing your problems with complete strangers. I think the things you've said about her show nothing but concern for her, for yourself and for your relationship. You're frustrated, sure. But it sounds like you're not finding her easy to approach about it. Maybe it would help her to register her own username and give her side of things. It would be nice to get to know her.

[The Fuse 1,012]

I feel for you, ebarz. I have a close friend in your situation. Seeing him frustrated frustrates me in turn. Like you, he loves his wife very much. I hope that together, you and she can work it out so that everyone is happy enough.

 

Best of luck, stick around, and we hope to hear from your wife too, if you think she would like reading here. Intuition had a good point that she may not like you discussing your problems with strangers. Of course, none of us know you...so hopefully that would help.

[DBL D 120]

Hey ebatz,

 

I must admit, I haven't read all the posts but I have read your first and last ones. Has the subject changed? LOL

 

About whether your wife is gay...I sure hope not. That leaves you out completely sexually. Rather it seems as though you are relating to one thing she said and hoping like hell it's the reason for the lack of sex between you two.

 

What she needs is a hot single, or married, girlfriend that can show her that sex is fun again.

 

Try to develop her fantasies. My wife expressed that she'd had interest in being with ladies as well as sometimes other men. I have never said she had to be bi. Never told her she had to do anything. I tell her that I want what she wants, and that is to be satisfied with your life when it is all said and done. No regrets kind of thinking. Time passes so quickly.

 

Just let her know that you love her, (no matter what the outcome is), but that you would like to really have a nice long talk with her about sex with yourself and then maybe talk about sex with others.

 

Hope you can get back on the right track.

 

Male D

[ShyMama 15]

Oh my goodness!!! You can stop reading now!! This was the most perfect, well thought out, accurate, compassionate and thorough post I think I've ever read on any board ever! I don't think anyone can say it any better or more clearly than this. Thank you Tybee Swing! Ebarz, I know I'm like a year late, but I just read it tonight. I hope you took her advixe and by now your relationship is well on track to sexual (and mentl emotional and spiritual) greatness that is as fabulously satisfying to your wife as it is to you.

[hmr 25]

In a lot of ways I could have written your post myself. My wife was not interested in sex, very "old school" even dressed like the proverbial "school marm" . Then the kids got a little older and she hit 40. All of a sudden she wanted to live her life for herself more.

The change was incredible. We are now swingers for about 8 years. Although she still does not masterbate, per say, she will use vibrators, or even the shower head, things i could never imagine her to do. While she once was the "wallflower" at a party, sitting by herself , talking to no one who did not talk to her first, now she will be the middle of a party.It is truely wonderful. Let things progress as she needs, do not force things on her and I'm sure the curiosity will lead furthur.