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mackie44

The swinging industry needs to be less homophobic to men

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The swinging industry has always prided itself on being open-minded. Indeed, one of the catch-cries of the industry has been "freedom". However, I'm seriously starting to wonder whether this is actually true. The amount of discrimination that many swing clubs show towards the male-male interaction is quite shocking. This isn't true open-mindedness.

 

I'm not saying that individual swingers should do things or accept things in their own lives that they don't want to. I'm simply suggesting that swing clubs should not be banning the male-male interaction. I would also say that many of the clubs are skating on thin legal ice in relation to this.

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These are private clubs, if you don't like the rules don't join. Even if you could force clubs to let men play with each other, you can't force people to attend places they don't want to. I would love to play with men at the clubs, but not at the expense of running off playmates.

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I guess some may look at it as an "industry", especially if one is reducing catering to swingers simply as a commercial transaction, but I hardly believe to those that swing that it is an "industry". The word "industry" by nature denotes a business.

 

That said, I've never seen where a club has a posted "No Male-Male" rule, however depending on the mindset of some of the patrons, this activity may or may not be totally accepted.

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As for legal, can anyone tell me how the free single female/charge for single males is going thru the courts? I heard that it was discrimination and one club out here already went couples only because of the legal issues.

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I had not heard of a club going to couples only because of legal issues. Would be interested in more information about that one since I write about those issues and follow them up.

 

As far as Swingers being open minded I will agree to an extent about most swingers being very closed minded when it comes to Bi men. I have seen it a great deal even though in the last two to three years more Bi men are coming out.

 

Here in Vegas it is allowed but due to how most people in the Lifestyle are we suggest that it be taken to the private rooms and that all entering that room be aware. Surprises cause problems and no one wants problems.

 

Many times people in this lifestyle will put something down because it is not something they want to be involved in. Does not make sense to me but it is true. See it all the time. Everyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes.

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Our club has a clearly stated "no male of male" rule.

 

Considering the patronage of our club, that is probably a good thing. I don't think there would really be a problem with two men interacting in a play situation behind closed doors, but I am aware of people being kicked out of the club for breaking that rule within the common view.

 

I am all for sexual freedom, but frankly, many folks within the swinging world simply don't want to see two men have sex. It would be "anti-erotic" and take away from their experience.

 

Clubs make rules to benefit their target audience. Just like designated smoking areas or different fees for singles. Bisexual activity is less accepted at a club because it is less on an interest for most people within swinging.

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I'm sure there are ladies out there who are turned off by G-G play at clubs. If the club they attend is the only one near to them they have to put up with it. I'm sure there was a time when it wasn't as accepted as it is. Why has it become OK? Because the men say it is. Why isn't M-M play accepted? Because the men (and some women) are uncomfortable with it. Until we as people grow to the point where we can accept other people's POV, this will be an issue.

 

Why does everything have to be majority rules? Because we are basically close-minded.

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Why does everything have to be majority rules?

 

Because it is the majority who pays the bills ;)

 

And very few club owners are into it for the social statement.

 

Your example is a perfect one - there are some women who are turned off by it, but I would venture that it is not a majority of women who are turned off by it. But, let two men dance together and make out under the sleazy tickling glow of the dance floor disco ball and a majority of club patrons (at our club, at least) would be turned off by it.

 

Why is this?

 

Who knows... Maybe that is a job for psychologists...

 

But it is what it is - and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

 

Now me personally? We worked a large gay party a few months ago and there was plenty of men who got pretty friendly. It didn't bother me one bit. It wasn't a turn on, as I think is very clear from my other postings around here, but it didn't bother me. Then again - I have a lot of gay friends and am not the least bit insecure in my sexuality.

 

But - my personal comfort levels aside - I would think very few club owners would take a "why should the majority rule" mentality... That'd be suicide for most clubs.

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I'm not "pushing" for society to change. I understand profit motivation.

 

I'm just one of those people who feel we can all be more tolerant than most of us really are. I'm just kinda intolerant of intolerance

 

Other than that, this could be similar to how swingers used to have to get together...from the silent, dark places. Keep the M-M to private parties where everyone knows what the "theme" is until public acceptance changes.

 

On another point, I think that is the point of 70's shows...to show that some of these things aren't new. Sorta makes it more acceptable in some ways.

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Male sexuality can be just as fluid as female sexuality. It's just that men aren't as comfortable in theirs because of the social forces that shape their upbringing. There's a huge double standard in the swinging world hierarchy in that male bisexuality is looked down upon but female bisexuality is glamorized. I think it's got something to do with propping up the straight guy fantasy.

 

It would be great to see a swinging world where true freedom exists, not this half-freedom that currently exists. Individuals should be able to interact with whomever they want to so long as there is mutual consent and respect for each other.

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As they say on the TV commercial (sort of).

 

"Start your own club!"

 

Really! It's not like buying a railroad.

 

Put together a business plan. Figure out how many customers you will have, what sort of fixed and variable costs there will be, how much you have to charge and go for it! Start-up costs are not going to be prohibitive. See about an SBA loan.

 

Run it just the way you think a club should be run. Make up your own "rules".

 

If there are many other individuals who share your interests you will at least break even and may even be able to cut back on your day job.

 

Good luck!

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Tolerant doesn't mean you like something it means you tolerate it.

 

We go to clubs for OUR enjoyment, not as a social statement. We are tolerant of MM activities, they can do what they want, but we don't want to see it, we do not enjoy it and it is a turn-off for us which takes away from our enjoyment. The same thing applies to bdsm involving pain or watersports or whatever. Do what you want, but if you are doing it around us we are going to leave.

 

Apparently we are not alone in this and clubs are more willing to keep couples like us there than cater to those into bi-male activities.

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It would be great to see a swinging world where true freedom exists, not this half-freedom that currently exists.

 

If there are couples out there who would prefer not to be around MM activity, wouldn't allowing MM activity be another form of "half-freedom"? The idea of "true freedom" is only possible when people respect others. A part of that respect is allowing people their comfort zones.

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I don't really have an Opinion on this subject I kind of feel like to each their own. Ok maybe I have a slight opinion, I wouldn't be "offended" if there were MM activity going on around me Yes it would be distracting but not offensive. I think for those who would be offended or caught off guard and a bit uneasy should truly look at the Lifestyle they are getting into. Swing is a Lifestyle for all who are mature enough to handle it. We here on the board try not to judge those with "odd" fetish's right? So who are we to judge men whom chose to be with men? Maybe it might make it easier if the clubs had a specific area like the fetish rooms, then you don't have to just "happen" upon sites you chose to not witness.

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I don't think there is a night at the club that I don't see something I would rather not see. Just the way it is. There is 100's of people there enjoying their self and doing what works for them.

 

I just don't stare at the things I don't want to see and I never let what other people are doing effect my mood or my fun. I won't give them that kind of power over me.

 

If they are breaking the rules I am going to put a stop to it, that is my job but if they are just having fun doing their own thing more power to them. I am there to have fun, they are there to have fun. We all do different things to have fun.

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You know, it is kind of funny to me when I see this topic of discussion because I have been to both types of clubs, those that forbid M/M play and those that allow it. We have a local club that is a gay bar but once a month has a swingers party. M/M contact is not forbidden or even discouraged at this club, and since their regular patrons (gays) are also there on the swing party nights, I am pretty sure their are some people there that wouldn't mind seeing it. Yet, even though we have been attending their monthly parties for over a year and it is an on-premise club with no private play rooms, I have never seen any bi-males engaging in M/M activities. During that same time I have seen many women engaging in F/F play and lots of F/M play, but never any guys playing. What this leads me to believe is that their just isn't very much demand for it, even though I know several couples that the males are Bi and singles bi-males that attend this party.

 

So, this only seems to me to be a problem because some people take offense, and see it as a narrow minded double standard, that the management of some clubs, in their efforts to give their clientele what they want, refuse to allow M/M activity, not because their is so many bi-males clamoring to have M/M play at the clubs. If our experience is any indication though, this topic is a moot point, because my guess is that you would see very little M/M play even if it were allowed at all the clubs.

 

Funny thing is, the clubs that don't allow M/M activity may have a good point based on our experience. The reason I say that is because well over half of the swingers I know refuse to go to the local club that allows M/M activity, but I have never once heard of anyone that refused to go to a club because they didn't allow it. Fact is, were I to manage a swingers club, I would probably take an approach similar to what VegasLee's club does, I probably wouldn't forbid it, but on the off chance anyone wanted to do it, I would direct them to take it behind closed doors. Because, like it or not, if our experience is any indication, most swingers find M/M activity offensive, and as the manager of a club I wouldn't see the point in alienating half my potential patrons.

 

The idea that swingers are any more open minded than the rest of the population is a total myth, in my opinion.

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It takes a huge risk to start your own business and I don't blame any owner that does everything legally possible he/she could to make sure the business succeeds. I don't see that as being narrow minded, I see it as an attempt to get as many customers as possible.

 

So where would the restrictions on play stop and who determines what they are? You could let gay men play at your club but what about other forms of sexual play that not too many people want to see? Unless you let everybody do whatever they want, somebody will call them narrow minded. I agree that swingers are no more open minded than the rest of the world. That would include those that think anything goes.

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I think the lifestyle is just at a point in the evolution of sexual freedom. Let's use me for an example. ::P:

 

When it was brought up to me, I was scared, but did my research. We went to a club where I never removed my hand from Dog's arm. I buried my head in his chest when the women only dance was going on. F/F was not my thing and I was freaked out by it. :eek: More research, more questions then a meet up. Where I danced and flirted (did not play yet). Then another club, but this time I took part in the ladies only dance. Still in a vanilla context. Then my first swing. YA!!! Then, the idea of well if a woman wanted to touch me maybe I might be ok with it....maybe. :o

 

I still have a long way to go before I am 100% comfortable with my place with in the lifestyle. But I am evolving as a person.

 

The same with the lifestyle. Not that long ago it was a horrible thought to swap wives. Masturbation??? WTF good girls don't do that. Bisexual relations between women, ah hell no!! Even where we stand on bisexual men is changing at a rapid pace.

 

I say 10-15 years, and the lifestyle will eventually open up more to M/M play.

 

I am not saying that because I have seen changes in the lifestyle. I am after all still very much a newbie. But I can see what is happening in the world as a whole and I do believe the people with in the lifestyle are more accepting of accepting changes.

 

If I, a good girl who never masturbated :nono: :rollseyes and believed that you only kiss your one true love for the rest of your life can change into a sex craved, fantasy seeking, on again off again bicurious maybe not so much individual. Then why can't we, as a whole, change into a maybe M/M is ok group?

 

I don't personally want to see M/M play or have Dog take part in it. But if I get to fulfill my fantasies who am I to ask others not to?

 

**I am not suggesting any of you are saying that M/M play should not take place at all** Just covering my ass.

 

I am losing my train wreck of a thought here so I will sign off now and hope I got my point across with some effectiveness.

 

Damn I wish I could express myself as well as you guys do. :o

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One thing I need to be clear on is the word 'offensive'.

 

We don't find MM activity offensive, we are not offended.

 

We are turned off by it though, it is a not sexy thing to us.

 

Seeing a man teabagging another man in a play room would be a turn-off for us and we would not be in the mood anymore. It is just 'icky', and there are straight activities that would fall in the same category.

 

I think most clubs that 'don't allow it' are only making sure it is not on the dance floor or the hot tubs, I doubt anyone cares what happens in the private rooms.

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CuriousinOregon,

 

Thanks for your opinion. I think you're one of these truly open-minded people that I was referring to.

 

Let individuals decide for themselves what they want to do in a swing club without a rule from above that bans one form of homosexual activity but not another.

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The idea that swingers are any more open minded than the rest of the population is a total myth, in my opinion.

 

QFT. The main reason I don't read this board as much as I used to.

 

I had this same argument with Spoo and some others over a year ago with much the same result. Basically their desires trump those of the people who would want a more open atmosphere, because the more open atmosphere is 'icky'.

 

To the OP: you won't change anyone's mind here, move along.

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I had this same argument with Spoo and some others over a year ago with much the same result. Basically their desires trump those of the people who would want a more open atmosphere, because the more open atmosphere is 'icky'.

 

Interesting...

 

Especially since I stated in this thread only what our club rules are and not what my opinion is. Frankly, what I have seen has never bothered me (men making out and dancing together). If they were to go into a room, it wouldn't matter to me one bit. But that doesn't change the general perception and comfort zones of swingers in general.

 

But the OP was talking about the "industry" of swinging. And as an industry, clubs have rules.

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QFT. The main reason I don't read this board as much as I used to.

 

I had this same argument with Spoo and some others over a year ago with much the same result. Basically their desires trump those of the people who would want a more open atmosphere, because the more open atmosphere is 'icky'.

 

To the OP: you won't change anyone's mind here, move along.

 

How open would you like there?

 

Maybe some testicle torture in the foyer?

 

Golden showers on the lawn?

 

We all have our ick factor.

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BTW, anyone who thinks they haven't been with a bi male who is in hiding, do what we did. We changed our profile to both bi for awhile to see what we would learn.

 

Yeah, we had been with quite a few bi males and didn't know it. :lol: We learned more of why they hide it and we became more open to the idea that bi males are in the lifestyle.

 

Like with everyone else, we just have to communicate what we don't want and what we do want. If they cross a line, like with anyone else, we have to speak up.

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I don't mind rules being present in a swing club. In fact, the whole of society needs rules. But when the rules in a swing club are designed to promote the bisexual double standard, the rule becomes inconsistent. At that point, it also becomes discriminatory.

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But when the rules in a swing club are designed to promote the bisexual double standard, the rule becomes inconsistent.

 

A double standard by definition IS inconsistent. But my question is - what exactly would the ideal club look like to you? How would "bi-male" activity occur at this club? What would the atmosphere be like?

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Well, there is the way it ought to be, and then there is the way it is.

 

The problem arises when your idea of the way it ought to be is different then the majority's idea of the way it ought to be.

 

More importantly, from a club owner's standpoint, he doesn't give two hoots about what is right or wrong or discriminatory, what he cares about, if he is to be successful, is the bottom line. The way it is today is that the majority of that club owners potential customers find M/M activity icky, repulsive, or nasty. So in the interest of enhancing his bottom line he has a rule against it or one that keeps it behind closed doors. It may not seem fair to you, but it is the way it is.

 

The fact is, real life is not fair, non-discriminatory, and open minded, people just aren't wired that way. And while one likes to think they are open minded and accepting of everyone's lifestyle, in reality it is like Chicup said, everyone draws the line somewhere, and that includes everyone here.

 

For the record, I have no problem with M/M play, as long as it doesn't involve me.

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I personally live by a couple very simple ideas in my life that keeps my life simple and easy.

 

1. If I don't like the way a person runs their business or party, I don't go there.

 

2. If I am not the one that owns the business or running the party I don't have the right to tell the person that does own it or is running it how to run their business or party.

 

Many years ago we got tired of the "after parties" at the convention every year. There where many suites holding parties every night but all were the same. Way too many people stuffed in a suite fully clothed getting drunk and nothing else was going on. Instead of bitching about it the next year and for the last seven years we held our own suite parties. We let in a comfortable amount of people, had a free open bar but we had one rule, NO CLOTHES ALLOWED in the suite. That changed the whole thing. No one was required to have sex but everyone did because of the way it was set up and different then all the rest of the parties. Yes, some people complained, they did not want to take their clothes off. They wanted to stand in the middle of 100 naked people and drink my free drinks. I just advised them there was many other suites that fit their needs perfectly and please go to those or follow our rules. We kept it simple.

 

All businesses/parties can not be everything to everyone. You either have to find the ones that work for you or hold your own. That is not just in this lifestyle but life in general. It's easy to complain about things not being the way you want them and it takes a bit more effort to find the things that work for you. If you want life to work for you then you have to make the effort.

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VegasLee just about summed it up and it couldn't be said any better than that.

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I don't mind rules being present in a swing club. In fact, the whole of society needs rules. But when the rules in a swing club are designed to promote the bisexual double standard, the rule becomes inconsistent. At that point, it also becomes discriminatory.

 

For those of you reading this that might not be aware of this:

 

One contributing reason as to why many organizations are "couples only" is that there have been lawsuits that claimed discrimination based on sex. In some cases that I have heard about, single females were allowed in to clubs but single males were not. So, some people have sued clubs based on sexual discrimination, so I'm sure some organizations are fearful to let singles in regardless of sexual preference.

 

In regards to swing clubs, I completely agree with many of you that have posted. The owners should be allowed to run their private clubs in a way that is profitable and I would hope that would mean classy but from my experience that is not always the case. To each his own. What I might consider a great club might seem to others like a waste of time.

 

Allie's father is gay and he goes on a lot of fun and exciting trips with other like minded people. He could never take us on one of these trips because the trips are part of an organization that excludes straight people. So, when I hear bi-men lamenting the fact that a lot of swinger clubs do not allow them entrance, I think to myself...Well, why not start your own club that caters to that group? If it is in such high demand, what is holding you back?

 

Mackie44, please do not take offense, you probably will anyway but if you heard me say this over a beer it might sound less offensive: There is no such thing as a "bisexual double standard". Comparing male bisexuality to female bisexuality is like comparing apples to oranges. The two are as different as men and women. Lumping them together won't help your cause, it only makes you sound disrespectful.

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There is no such thing as a "bisexual double standard". Comparing male bisexuality to female bisexuality is like comparing apples to oranges. The two are as different as men and women. Lumping them together won't help your cause, it only makes you sound disrespectful.

 

I've seen them lumped together on other message boards. They ARE in many people's minds, two sides of the same coin.

 

Course, I've also seen male bisexuality compared to beastiality. So go figure. :confused:

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There is no such thing as a "bisexual double standard". Comparing male bisexuality to female bisexuality is like comparing apples to oranges. The two are as different as men and women. Lumping them together won't help your cause, it only makes you sound disrespectful.

 

 

John,

 

I've seen them lumped together on other message boards. They ARE in many people minds, two sides of the same coin.

 

Course, I've also seen male bisexuality compared to beastiality. So go figure. :confused:

 

I would agree with Tribble's view the act of bisexuality is the same act for both sexes. The general definition is defined as individuals having sex with the same sex as well as sex with the opposite sex. How this is different between the sexes eludes me.

 

I would also agree there is a double standard in the Lifestyle concerning bisexuality.

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How this is different between the sexes eludes me.

 

Since picture posting is not working right now, imagine two pairs of stick figures. One set has penises, one set does not...

 

:D

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Since picture posting is not working right now, imagine two pairs of stick figures. One set has penises, one set does not...

 

:D

 

Guess you've never witness strap-on action then?

 

Touching, kissing, licking, eating, inserting are actions I've seen both sexes do. They look the same to me.

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Guess you've never witness strap-on action then?

 

You're serious...

 

I mean - you really see "strap on sex" between women as exactly the same as sex between men?

 

Touching, kissing, licking, eating, inserting are actions I've seen both sexes do. They look the same to me.

 

I remember a class in middle school where they showed us pictures of a man and a woman naked. Even at that tender young age, I was able to see the difference.

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You're serious...

 

I mean - you really see "strap on sex" between women as exactly the same as sex between men?

 

How is the act different? Mechanically it is the same. Someone is being penetrated in both cases. Be it vaginal or anal.

 

I remember a class in middle school where they showed us pictures of a man and a woman naked. Even at that tender young age, I was able to see the difference.

 

Are you implying that women look better having sex with each other because they're feminine looking? What of the women who are more masculine in build? From your posts you've mentioned you have gay friends are all of them burly type men? Aren't some of them feminine in build? There are many men in the lifestyle who shave everything off like women and some of them are of slight build and look more androgynous than masculine.

 

I think Chicup hit it on the nail with his "icky factor" and it's true for many two men making out is not sexually appealing. I personally don't find it appealing however I don't find two women making out appealing either. But I'm honest enough with myself to concede the act is the same...same sex is same sex no matter how you slice it. I will also concede there’s a double standard when it comes to bisexuality be it right or wrong. IMHO

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Are you implying that women look better having sex with each other because they're feminine looking?

Well, Duh! That would be the general consensus yes. ;)

How is the act different? Mechanically it is the same. Someone is being penetrated in both cases. Be it vaginal or anal.

Because one is a vagina and one is an.....asshole.

What of the women who are more masculine in build? From your posts you've mentioned you have gay friends are all of them burly type men? Aren't some of them feminine in build? There are many men in the lifestyle who shave everything off like women and some of them are of slight build and look more androgynous than masculine.

They still have a penis. I don't get it.

I think Chiccup hit it on the nail with his "icky factor" and it's true for many two men making out is not sexually appealing. I personally don't find it appealing however I don't find two women making out appealing either.

Even still, many women and the majority of men do find it appealing.

But I'm honest enough with myself to concede the act is the same . . . same sex is same sex no matter how you slice it.

The act is the same, the perception for many, probably even most, is not.

I will also concede there’s a double standard when it comes to bisexuality be it right or wrong. IMHO

Yes there is. It may be wrong but it is what it is.

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It's nice to see some real discussion going here, but honestly why do people always bring out "if you don't like it, start your own club".

 

I don't like the high price of gas, but I'm not going to build my own refinery.

 

I don't like the way the country is being run, but I'm not going to try to become President to change that.

 

I'm still allowed to explain my opinion on why things like this should be different, without having to be the one to solve the issue. ;)

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There are millions of men in this world that think having sex with a women is Icky... there is millions of women that think the same about having sex with men.

 

Swingers or straight people don't have the lock on thinking things are icky.

 

lovinher hit on something. It is all in the "perception" for everyone.

 

No one has to start a club to find what they want. There is a club and many parties that fit the needs of just about everyone. You just have to look around until you find the one that works for you. At the same time no one should expect a club to change to suit their needs either.

 

Hashing this out on a message board is pretty easy since most people here don't know who you are. Standing at a public meeting and talking about rights for all and having things thrown at you is a bit more exciting though. :eek: Some look at this as an argument when it is nothing more then everyone giving input about what works for them. We are all different and that is what makes this a great world and Lifestyle. :cool:

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In my opinion, is male and female bisexual activity the same? Yes, in reality it is still bisexual play, regardless of the equipment involved.

 

Is it perceived as different by the masses? Yes.

 

Is this right? In my opinion, no.

 

In my opinion is there a double standard? Yes, but it's social conditioning and nothing else. People have been taught over generations that MM is icky and FF is not. Even in polygamy, MFFFF cool, FMMM not. It hasn't always been this way and it didn't change overnight, in fact this "social norm" has only been present in the last 1% of homo sapien's existence. Most sexologists and anthropologists believe that humans and most past societies were bisexual in nature, and at the time this was the "social norm" because in their learned opinion this is the way humans are hardwired. How with think to day about bisexuality is conditioned.

 

You see this double standard applied to everything sexual in nature. Guys think (and many women too) that two women together are cool, two men are not. You read non-swinger forums or questions about threesomes and it's always the same (especially to men), FMF is good, MFM is bad. I think many men are insecure about being naked in a room with other men or other men having sex with a woman they are having sex with (whether present or past). Why? I think because they feel they are being "measured-up" physically or in sexual prowess by the other woman or man. He's afraid he may not be as large as the other guy, or maybe the woman will prefer the other man to him, etc.

 

I think many swingers have seen it, the male who has performance issues when swinging, whether it be a married male in the same room with his wife and the other man, or a single guy joining a couple for a threesome. Many times you get the same male in a separate room with a woman along and all systems are "go". Simply being naked around another man makes them uncomfortable.

 

Why are they uncomfortable? Simply social conditioning over time. Throughout history it wasn't always like this, but it is now. Is it going to change? Maybe, but it took thousands of years to get the way it is now, and it will take several generations down the road to change it back. Plus, it's a lot easier to condition someone than to un-condition them. It's like training a dog (which is pure conditioning), it's easier to prevent a certain conditioning than it is to change a set-in conditioning. Once it's there it is hard to undo.

 

Do I hope it will change? Yes, very much so. Everyone should have the right to be who they are. Do they? In reality, no. The opinionated majority will always trump the ideal of the individual and it takes a very brave individual to go against the grain. It sucks, but it is the truth. To affect even minor change takes time, and you change the thinking of the young and the old ideals eventually die-out. For instance, women have had the right to vote in the U.S. for over 70 years now, but are they still considered "equal" in the eyes of men? Unfortunately no. There is still a huge gender gap in many things in our society, and most of the are not for the better. Is this changing? Yes, slowly but surely each generation being born is is thinking a little different. In the meantime, those that do go against the grain will in time be "pioneers", but at the time they are considered heretics.

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How is the act different? Mechanically it is the same. Someone is being penetrated in both cases. Be it vaginal or anal.

 

Except for the painfully obvious fact that when two men have sex, there isn't a vagina involved... And when two women have sex, there isn't a penis involved. Sure - those couples can toss in a sex toy or three, but it is still two men or two women.

 

Are you implying that the only difference between a man and a woman can be remedied with a rubber dong? Does a woman not have a different sexual energy from a man? Is the difference between the sexes solely physical?

 

When Mrs Spoo has sex with another woman, a rare thing, she wants that experience to be different than having sex with a man - otherwise, why bother?

 

Are you implying that women look better having sex with each other because they're feminine looking?

 

To me personally, yes. Absolutely. I have a preference for watching two women have sex and have no desire to watch two men have sex. But that is me - not everyone. Just as I prefer Diet Coke over regular Coke. It is a preference.

 

What of the women who are more masculine in build?

 

Again - is "build" the only difference between man and woman?

 

From your posts you've mentioned you have gay friends are all of them burly type men? Aren't some of them feminine in build? There are many men in the lifestyle who shave everything off like women and some of them are of slight build and look more androgynous than masculine.

 

My gay friends run the gamut from very masculine to convincing cross dresser. In fact, I have a few male straight friends who'd look pretty good in make up and dress. But again, there is more difference between a man and a woman than just their "build". I am fairly sure you understand, so I am not at all sure what point you are trying to make.

 

The question is, if one of my extremely feminine built gay friends wanted to have sex, I wouldn't. Do you want to know why? Because they are a man. According to your sexual economy though, it would be the mechanical equivalent of having sex with Mrs Spoo. And I tend to think that you are mistaken in this assertion.

 

I think Chicup hit it on the nail with his "icky factor" and it's true for many two men making out is not sexually appealing. I personally don't find it appealing however I don't find two women making out appealing either. But I'm honest enough with myself to concede the act is the same . . . same sex is same sex no matter how you slice it. I will also concede there’s a double standard when it comes to bisexuality be it right or wrong. IMHO

 

For the record (once again) I personally have no problem with bisexual men. I wouldn't be (and haven't been) bothered by two men making out or dancing together. I tend to think that sexual energy is a good thing.

 

Would I want to watch them have sex? No. Preference.

 

But if two men went into a room together at my club, I wouldn't be the one to tell the ownership. Frankly, I'd be cool with it. But if someone else saw them in my club, they'd very likely be kicked out. I am scratching my head over how that makes me the villain in this thread, but I have broad shoulders :D

 

I disagree that there is a double standard simply because I do not see the acts as equal. But whether there is or not, the culture is what it is and more swingers are going to be uncomfortable with male bisexuality than female. We can argue about it, debate it over and over until we come to some virtual consensus - but it is what it is.

 

Someone on here said that they changed their profile to "bi" as an experiment (a brilliant one, I think. Very interesting. Though I'd love to know how people reacted when they were made aware that it was just a test.) to see how many men listed as "straight" were actually "bi."

 

They said they were surprised...

 

Why do they present themselves as straight? Maybe if they were less ashamed of their sexuality - and more upfront - the culture would begin to shift. Maybe the problem isn't us straight guys. Maybe it is all of the closeted bi-guys.

 

As I have learned from my gay friends - it takes a lot of courage to come out. But coming out is the first step to social acceptance. Just a thought...

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Club Taboo in Corona has a gay/bi/les/alternative nite on Thursdays

 

 

I think there is a club in Pennsylvania which is as open to all regardless of sexual preference. I can't remember it, but I did find it intriguing as to a club making such pains to accommodate to all who are into the lifestyle ethos.

 

Very good topic! One I have always wondered about not because I'm gay or anything but seeing patterns and attitudes regarding male/male intimacy.

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Spoon,

 

I never implied you were a villain so I'm not sure where that came from.

 

I've seen this as constructive debate nothing more.

 

We all bring our take on life to the table and each view is valid.

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The swingers board wouldn't be the swingers board without a pointless bi-male thread and the same people posting what we posted before on other threads (yes I'm one of the guilty ones).

 

Is it a double standard? YES!! Girls can kiss girls and guys can't kiss guys. Replace kiss with any sexual act, same thing.

 

Do I care? NO!! Sure is not fair that your bisexual husband would get kicked out of a club for rubbing another guys cock on the dance floor, while women can basically do anything to another woman in a swing club and get an audience if she likes.

 

There is a reason why one gets cheers and the other gets uncomfortable silence from most. Most straight men don't like to see MM sex, and if they do, guess what, they ain't straight. Most straight women don't either for some reason (yes there are exceptions). Most swinging females are bi to some degree or at least are not turned off by it. Those that are turned off by it are in the minority and often have a hard time in swinging. Most swinging males are straight, maybe its less then let on because of the double standard, but its not like 80% of the men are bi and being repressed by a 20% minority.

Now not everyone is into everything but it goes deeper.

 

Its not like its neutral to a lot of us, and let me use a non-sexual example. Neither my wife or I smoke, never have, never will. Its pretty nasty to us. The clubs we have been to have all had smoking and non smoking areas. If the clubs didn't have non-smoking areas and was very smoke filled we would not return to that club. I don't think anyone would fault us for that choice and being 'close minded'.

 

Now lets take 2 guys going at it in public in a club. This isn't like passing up a vegetable you don't like at a buffet. They are there in the open and its hard not to see whats going on without 'averting your eyes'. To me and my wife, and many others we know in swinging, this is a turn off. We are no longer feeling free and sexy but grossed out. Its not fair, its a double standard, blah blah, but that's just how our brains are wired sexually.

 

I don't CARE if two guys have sex, I would still like them as people if they were friends, and yes even I have gay friends, BUT I don't want to see it when I'm in the mood to get Mr. Happy some play time.

 

If a club had MM sex going on in the open, we would not return to that club because the club would no longer be serving the purpose for which we would want to attend. This of course makes us, to some, closed minded, homophobic, blah blah blah, and that's quite frankly asinine.

 

Maybe in the future clubs will have 'smoking rooms' where bisexual males and their partners can play together and that would be fine with me.(it would also never work for another reason, but I don't have time to get into that one.)

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I never implied you were a villain so I'm not sure where that came from.

 

I am basing this on a separate communication about this thread, but not in this thread. I apologize for the confusion :o

 

The person who sent it did so privately (which I highly respect) and I suppose I was feeling a bit persecuted. That is where that came from. I am sorry if I swept you into that frustration.

 

Spoomonkey

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How is the act different? Mechanically it is the same. Someone is being penetrated in both cases. Be it vaginal or anal.

This is a silly thing to say. That means they're about as much the same as taking a shower and jumping in a pool. Someone gets wet in both cases, right? But they are not the same, and they don't provoke the same reactions.

 

Just because man-on-man and woman-on-woman are both same-sex activities does not make them equivalent in the eyes of an audience! And most likely not to the participants either. I've had sex with a few women, and I feel sure the experience is nothing like a man having sex with another man, no matter what equipment is used or what orifices are involved.

 

Sorry to be harsh, but... I can't be as diplomatic as Spoomonkey.

 

Are you implying that women look better having sex with each other because they're feminine looking? What of the women who are more masculine in build? From your posts you've mentioned you have gay friends are all of them burly type men? Aren't some of them feminine in build? There are many men in the lifestyle who shave everything off like women and some of them are of slight build and look more androgynous than masculine.

Again, dude... they're still men. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Vive la difference!

 

Yes, peoples' double standards about same sex activity are not "fair". The two things elicit different reactions, rightly or wrongly.

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This is a silly thing to say. That means they're about as much the same as taking a shower and jumping in a pool. Someone gets wet in both cases, right? But they are not the same, and they don't provoke the same reactions.

 

Just because man-on-man and woman-on-woman are both same-sex activities does not make them equivalent in the eyes of an audience! And most likely not to the participants either. I've had sex with a few women, and I feel sure the experience is nothing like a man having sex with another man, no matter what equipment is used or what orifices are involved.

 

Sorry to be harsh, but... I can't be as diplomatic as Spoomonkey.

 

 

Again, dude... they're still men. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Vive la difference!

 

Yes, peoples' double standards about same sex activity are not "fair". The two things elicit different reactions, rightly or wrongly.

 

Pardon my ignorance but me being a mechanical engineer and applying engineering principles while observing the act they look the same to me. Be it man on man or woman with strap-on on woman. Guess I wasted a lot of money on that M.E. degree? :headbang:

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Pardon my ignorance but me being a mechanical engineer and applying engineering principles while observing the act they look the same to me. Be it man on man or woman with strap-on on woman. Guess I wasted a lot of money on that M.E. degree? head bang

Coincidentally, I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering as well... and a Master's Degree in it. :D

 

Honey, this is sex we're talking about. I suppose everyone approaches it differently, but I prefer to leave "engineering principles" in the office and far away from my sex life. There are emotions, excitement, evocative sights...not engineering, though there might be a few mechanical challenges here and there :lol: .

 

What I'm trying to get at is that we are not just talking about pistons and cylinders...we're talking about the people who are attached. Lots of factors influence how people feel witnessing sex acts, and most of those factors are about the whole participants rather than their slippery parts.

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      "Of course, darling," he smiled and added. "Come back when you are ready!" She laughed and left the room.

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      Each girl selected a mate and sidled up to him as bodies entwined and hands were everywhere. The scene changed from relaxed, easy caresses to hot passion. John was having trouble getting hard again so soon after the last session. One of the two guys noticed and put his head in his lap, sucking gently on his cock. The girls watched with rapt interest. John froze for a second. This had never happened before. Then he relaxed as he thought to himself Wendy does this to me all the time. I go down on her. She won't mind, so what's the problem? John laid back and started enjoying a new experience.

      Wendy walked naked through the large room towards the lady's bathroom, passing groups and couples in all types of contortions. One threesome had a man on all fours, the girl on his back legs wrapped around the guy on top as he fucked vigorously. Her head was bobbing about like a broken rag doll. The whimpers coming from her showed she was in fuck heaven. Wendy passed them and smiled. She could not believe how many different positions were being displayed.

      In the bathroom, a girl was sitting on the side where the washbasins were, legs wide open, washing out the fluids that had been pumped into her. She licked her fingers and said, "Yummy, don't you just love that salty taste? I just got too full after a big gangbang. I had eight inside me, one after the other. Some of the greedy buggers came back for seconds and thirds." Wendy asked, "How long did you do it for?" The girl said, "About an hour and a half. I am a bit sore now and need a rest to recover after coming so many times."

      Wendy left the bathroom and wandered down a corridor from the large room. She heard sounds from a room; she stopped and looked in through the open door. Nine men were around this one girl who was being fucked from behind by one with another in her mouth, and a few were by her head. She had a cock in each hand, and the others were masturbating around her. The guy in her pussy speeded up and pulled out, rubbing himself furiously. He spurted all over her bottom. Another took his place and speared her without ceremony pushing in and out of her sweet little pussy. He inserted a finger up her bottom, and she wriggled and cried out, "Fuck my arse as well!"

      The men pulled out and rolled her over. One climbed underneath. She sat on his cock and lay on his chest. Another pulled her cheeks apart, stretching her anus slightly open. He rubbed semen that had seeped from her pussy around her dark hole to ease his passage and penetrated her slowly. The other guys were in her mouth, between her breasts, anywhere they could get.

      Wendy watched the action, fascinated. This was what she had dreamed of in every fantasy. One of the guys with nowhere to fuck noticed her standing by the door and came over and said, "Join us, lovely. We would love to satisfy your desires and fuck you senseless."

      Wendy entered the room as if in a dream; her fantasy had finally come true. Three guys remained with the girl. The other six moved over to Wendy. She lay on her back, waiting for it to happen. A man's body leaned over her, his cock hard and erect, probing her face as he bent over her and probed her cunt with his tongue. She grasped that beautiful cock and sucked it to absolute hardness. Hands over her breasts, tongues in ears and around her neck, hands now everywhere. Her body had become one large erogenous zone. The tongue in her pussy was replaced with a very large cock which started slowly and stepped up as the rhythm became one for both.

      For the next hour, Wendy felt cocks in all her parts, fluids being pumped and splashed. Each orgasm she experienced lifted her higher and higher until she lapsed into oblivion and was gently laid to rest, covered in semen and a little sore from the multiple entries. One vague recollection towards the end was of two cocks inside her pussy together, stretching her and giving her a final massive orgasm. Wendy drifted on the edge of exhaustion, languishing in the euphoria of her greatest fantasy, a gangbang. She lay there with semen dripping from her pussy, running down the crease between her legs. She fingered her anus softly, rubbing in the slippery cream to ease the soreness. She felt wonderful.

      After half an hour, she got up and returned to the room where she had left John. She passed Mistral, Tim, Greg, and Susan on the way, heading upstairs. As they passed her, they smiled at her sticky legs and body, and one said, "You sure have had some fun, huh, Wendy?"

      She arrived at the room and stepped inside. John was entwined with another girl, and a guy gently probed him while the girl tried to get him hard again. Wendy watched her man and smiled to herself. "Now he knows what it feels like to be fucked up the arse. Once used to the stretching, it is yummy."

      Wendy called him, "Honey, will you shower and sauna with me? I need to clean up a bit?"

      "OK, babe, let's get showered and find where Tim and Mistral are," John replied. "They did promise us a special time together, but I haven't seen them tonight."

      Mistral took John to one side the next day at work and said, "I know you both enjoyed your first swinging party; sorry we never got together. Would you both like to join Susan, Greg, Tim, and me the weekend after next at our place for just a casual dinner and some fun?"

      "Sure, we would not miss it!" John quickly replied. Mistral said, "Greg told me he saw Wendy walking past him in stockings and suspenders. He said she has a fabulous body, her cunt dripping down her legs, and he wants to fuck her after dinner. You can have Susan and me together if you fancy. It will be a hot night!" With a wide grin, John quickly shot back, "How about six all together in the sauna then?"
       
    • By Mistral Wind
      My husband, Tim, met a new prospective client the other day, and an hour appointment went on for another three hours. Then Tim returned to the office glowing with excitement. "Hey, Mistral, the new clients want the Full Monty and more from us!"
       
      A few days later, I met Greg and Susan and found we had an immediate relationship with them both. Glen is a "go-getter" who has enormous energy and vision. He had just acquired three more companies and ran a group of four on a wide area network that needed our services. The questions flowed thick and fast at the meeting: "Can you do xxx for us? What about these services? How about getting the VPN up?" A gem of all clients had been discovered by accident through a conversation with a friend who put us together.
       
      Greg is a tall, dark, very fit 45-year-old with boundless energy and a very sharp, intelligent mind with a wacky sense of humor. Susan is a Nicole Kidman look-alike, red blonde hair, 5'2", pert small breasts with really pink nipples, and the greatest tight little butt I have ever seen. Her hair was shoulder-length curly and shone like spun red gold. Some women you meet and like from day one. We liked the same food and wine and laughed about some of her office's young, horny, and frustrated studs.
       
      Within three weeks of working almost every day with them both, a very positive relationship had started between us. I began to feel that Susan might be bi. She often sat close, and when we were going through my graphic designs, she would sometimes run her hand down my arm or touch my face gently when asking her searching questions. Her being a client, I was always careful not to respond in a sexual way just in case I had misread her. As the working days passed, the banter became more friendly and frank.
       
      After a few dinners and lunches, we were invited to their place for a relaxing weekend after getting most of the projects specified and starting to build. Their income was high, so we expected a nice place when we drove up. It was spectacular!
       
      Greg had said, "Well, it's a small mansion, built about 1795, Robert Adam style." Greg's idea of small contained seven bedrooms, a covered heated pool with a Sauna and Jacuzzi, and the garden had the cutest little Japanese Bonsai tree garden with a beautiful love seat.
       
      When we arrived Friday late afternoon, we just had time to briefly chill out with them doing "the tour." We were shown many large elegant rooms alongside some small intimate settings that would suit a pair of lovers. We met Jonathon, Greg's 21-year-old son, who had just finished University and would take a year off to explore the world. Jon is into falconry in a big way and owns three Harris Hawks: Brody, Bandit, Blackthorn, and a Peregrine Falcon called Blade. I spent an hour chatting with Jon about his birds. I quickly realized the Harris Hawks were an intelligent community-minded group that would work together to hunt their prey.
       
      Later that evening, Jon left to go to London for the weekend to be with his girl. When he left, he kissed Susan (stepmother), and to my eye, it lingered just a little too long. I raised my eyebrow, and she frankly stated, "Well, he is beautiful and half of my husband, so why not enjoy a younger version as well? Greg is pretty relaxed about it."
       
      The air took on a sexual tension that made me feel a little uneasy as we made it a policy not to play with clients, and this has an overtone that could get difficult. Susan and I chilled out before dinner with a swim in the pool and a sauna to finish off. She dropped her bikini on the floor and sat naked in front of me, completely relaxed. Her legs rested on the opposite seat, slightly open, revealing a beautiful smooth snatch. Susan caught me looking and made a show of 'accidentally' allowing her legs to open even more. Watching her outer lips peel stickily apart, I was tempted to reach out and touch but remembered Tim's words: "Don't play with clients!" Susan seemed to sense my conundrum but seemed willing to let things ride where they were...for now.
       
      Dinner passed pleasantly with a couple of bottles of red French Merlot. We all chatted intimately, getting close and closer together. Greg announced an early start as Tim was invited to hunt with Blade the Peregrine while we girls chilled out and enjoyed the morning. About midday, Greg and Tim returned empty-handed Greg said, "We are taking the hawks out. Several wild rabbits are around, which would be great for dinner tonight; grilled rabbit with bacon and garlic is yummy!"
       
      Later the "hunters" returned with three rabbits for the table and a couple for the Harris Hawks. Tim was in awe of the birds and said: "Babe, you should see them hunt together. They would make great Marines. They are intelligent, work well together, and the kills are lightning-fast. No rabbit suffered."
       
      "Time for a shower and a rest before we set up tonight," Tim suggested. So we slipped upstairs to our room and showered together. The shower was only big enough to get both inside and had a flexible pipe with a variable spray head. The naughty schoolboy in Tim surfaced, and he turned the shower onto pulse and started to work my breasts and nipples with the jet. I slid my soapy hands down onto his cock and worked it hard. Tim moved the shower between my legs, and I opened up for him. The jet started to bombard my clit. This was too much too quick, and I said, "Pack it up. That hurts."
       
      Tim settled down onto his knees and softly kissed her better. She responded quickly, and I pushed his face deeper into my crotch. The outer lips were gently opened, and his tongue probed for the inner lips teasing around my clit. I got impatient and rocked my hips into his face forcing his tongue onto my clit, demanding his attention. My legs spread apart of their own accord, and a hand crept around, caressing my bottom and making the cleft tingle with anticipation. As my pussy heated up and the waves started to build, that other hand was around my anus, caressing and probing the pink rosebud.
       
      As the first waves started to run through my body, a finger tickled and slid inside my arse. The orgasm exploding inside me was made more magnificent by the probing finger. The finger working deep in my bowel was enough to hit my "G" spot from the other passage. As I came down from the first shudders, the jet spray added its contribution, and I nearly passed out with pleasure. That brought on a multiple, and it kept coming and coming until I slumped against him.
       
      Tim dried me off, picked me up, and gently laid me on the bed. He dried himself and leaned over me. His cock was still hard. I lazily reached up, pulled him into my mouth, and sucked and sucked, working around the helmet just under the rim. He did not take long as he wanted a cum as much as the sucking. It exploded into my mouth, and I slurped it down, leaving about half on my tongue. Tim collapsed on the bed beside me, and we kissed, sharing the salty fluid he had deposited. "You minx! You are supposed to swallow that!" teased Tim. I shot back: "You know it turns you on tasting semen, so stop complaining."
       
      We both drifted into a deep sleep for a couple of hours. The house is very warm, so I put on a floaty dress and a white silk thong with a diamante glitter buckle at the back when I dressed. Tim smiled and said, "Babe, that does show off your bottom beautifully. I am enjoying their company. Susan has a great mind and body. What do you think of Greg?"
       
      Dodging his question, I asked my own. "Would you want to be inside Susan's pussy?" I asked, "Does she have fuckability?"
       
      "Oh yes, and more. But remember, this is not a swinging party; these are clients. We must be careful; a wrong move could mess things up big time."
       
      "Susan sort of hit on me in the sauna by 'accidentally' showing me her pussy," I admitted. "It's smooth and beautiful, and I could tell she was very wet."
       
      "Interesting," Tim said, "but it doesn't change the fact they are clients. Let's enjoy dinner. Come on; it must be time to go on down." I could tell, though, that my admission had hit home with Tim, and his stomach wouldn't be the only thing on his mind at dinner.
       
      The rabbit was fabulous, and we slowly munched our way through the various courses. Coffee and brandy followed, and we retreated into a smaller intimate family room with sofas, large seats, scattered cushions on the floor, and a big fireplace with a bright fire in the grate. Susan found a DVD, "Eyes Wide Shut," with Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise. Tim commented, "You look just like her, Susan."
       
      "She is a fine woman," Susan agreed. "I wish I had her bottom and her breasts. Watch the first scenes, and you get to see all of her. She is beautiful!"
       
      The film was remarkable, and we all watched it enthralled during the sex party scene in the large country house. The men in masks and long dark cloaks, women in cloaks, and other women wearing just about nothing. Couples fucking all over the furniture, and one girl was being done resting on the back of another man. A girl in the corner was being fucked doggy on a coffee table. I started to get wet. The film was deep, and the sex was great, although never construed as a porn film, much too delicate for that category. My pussy was alive, so I couldn't wait to get Tim back upstairs later. The movie finished, and Susan said, "That was the hot scene at the party. Wouldn't you love to join in and be one of them!"
       
      A careful silence was followed by Tim and me, which gained the retort from Susan. "You are swingers, aren't you? Otherwise, you would have said something about not sharing your wife!" I giggled, and Tim finally uncomfortably said: "Well, it takes all kinds of people with different attitudes to sex to make the world go around."
       
      Susan got up and walked out of the room. After a few minutes, she returned with a small basket of condoms and a collection of exciting toys. Susan smiled at me and said, "Mistral, let's give the boys a show. Then I will fuck Tim to a standstill as long as you are OK about it and want Greg!"
       
      "OK. I want to fuck Greg as much as he wants me. Same for you and Tim," was my husky reply. Suddenly, all the rules had gone out the window. Susan smiled and shrugged off her long dress, sliding it down to the floor, and she had nothing underneath. I got up and selected a toy from the basket, a rabbit dildo. I stepped out of my dress and knelt in front of Susan. She opened up her legs, and I switched on the vibrator, slid a finger inside a very wet slippery pussy, and pressed the toy to her clit.
       
      "My, we have been thinking rude thoughts this evening, hmmm?" I chided her. Susan said, "Well, the DVD certainly opened up the conversation. I tried to interest you in the sauna, and I saw the fuck-me look in your eyes but then got ignored. How come?"
       
      I ignored the question. "Get on the cushions. I want to open you right up and explore," I commanded. I worked slowly down Susan's body, tonguing every crevice. At the same time, the vibrator was held against her pussy without really trying to get inside. She rolled over onto her back, pulled me on top, slid off my thong, and peeled apart the lips of a very wet Mistral pussy. She arched her back to get her head between my legs, then slowly worked her tongue around my clit, just missing the most sensitive part: teasing, teasing! My head was between her legs sucking hard on her cunt, the vibrator discarded alongside us.
       
      Susan tasted and smelt divine, a cunt to die for, and we gently and slowly worked each other to a beautiful girly climax. I slid her clit between my lips and sucked gently, giving it all the attention it could take. Her bottom started to thrash about, and a muffled cry came from her as she exploded and released a dribble of pussy juice onto my face. Strong hands lifted us apart, and Greg sat me down on his lap, legs facing him. He kissed me gently, opened my mouth with his tongue, and started to probe my soul with his penetrating tongue. When those two had shed their clothes, I don't know!
       
      What I wanted was getting harder under my thigh and starting to poke up between my legs. My hand reached down and stroked the elegant cock, trying so hard to get inside me. Greg put on a condom and was ready for me. A thrust up then down onto it, and he was inside. I could not wait and would not wait. My hips thrust madly at him, exploring his cock and filling myself with pleasure. It must have only taken me 30 seconds to hit the first orgasm, and Greg was getting faster and faster until he exploded.
       
      We kissed and looked over at Tim and Susan. They were in a 69 with Susan sucking Tim hard and working her two fingers inside his anus. His balls tightened, and he emptied himself inside her mouth. She got up, came over, and kissed me deeply, sharing the contents of her mouth with me. Susan returned to Tim and started gently sucking him back to hardness again. Greg was working my bottom with his tongue, firm strokes working into the most private and sensitive area a woman has. I pulled him up and kissed him deeply, and again he shared the semen from Susan's mouth.
       
      Greg smiled and said, "OK, we all shared Tim. Would he enjoy sucking me?" I was a little unsure how Tim would react. Susan said, "He can't talk right now since his mouth is full of my pussy."
       
      Greg lifted me off him and walked over to the other two, kissed Susan, and then leaned over and lightly bit Tim's nipple, who, for a straight guy, relaxed and did nothing. Greg slowly worked down his body and started to get near his groin. Susan got up and thrust her pussy back into his face. Tim hungrily lapped at her while Greg took Tim's cock into his mouth.
       
      Tim started to push his hips at Greg, who was working the sensitive spots on his cock with expert reverence. I had never seen Tim with a man before, and it fascinated me to see how he responded to a man's attention. Tim gently pulled Greg around so they were 69 together and opened his mouth to get Greg's cock down his throat.
       
      Susan had slid behind me and worked one of the toys into my pussy. A little finger was up my arse, and the big rabbit worked magic inside me. I watched, fascinated, while the two men ground their cocks into each other's mouths, sucking and mouth fucking together. I could reach Greg's anus from where I was crouching, and I slid a finger inside, feeling for his prostate. I found the firm nut I was after and massaged it, bringing him to a rapid spunk explosion. When he started, I worked the prostate harder, milking the orgasm to its absolute. Tim was greedily swallowing all that Greg could deliver. Tim's hips began to shudder as he succumbed to Greg's tongue and spurted his load down his throat.
       
      The guys then got up and came over and kissed us. Greg pushed a quantity of spunk down my throat while Tim probed Susan's mouth. For the rest of the night, we moved upstairs to a large bedroom with a king-sized double that could sleep six without trouble. We swapped, we fucked, we cuddled and rested, then swapped, fucked, and cuddled some more, eventually falling asleep around 5 a.m.
       
      I awoke around 7:00, needing a drink. As no one else was around, I walked naked downstairs to get some orange juice. Halfway down the stairs, Jon appeared with a smile and a naked girlfriend beside him. "Hello, we returned late last night and realized you guys were having fun."
       
      Penny, Jon's girlfriend, said, "Come into this room. We had a camera in the large bedroom and watched you all together. What a turn-on!"
       
      I followed them in with dread, not knowing what to expect. Jon said, "Don't look so worried. We enjoyed the performance and wanted to share some of it with you."
       
      As I looked at the display, the threesome on the screen was waking up, and Susan was fondling both men. Penny said, "I often watch Greg and Susan's swinging parties here, and we fuck like bunnies while we watch. I enjoyed a threesome with Jon and his stepmother. What was Greg like? I haven't had him yet?" I just stood there, mouth open in shock, unable to speak.
       
      Jon pushed me gently onto the bed and started caressing my body while Penny approached the other side. Jon gently sucked my nipples while Penny's tongue delicately explored my womanhood. "We want to fuck you properly, Mistral, but I know your pussy must be sore from last night, so we'll stick with our tongues this time, OK?"
       
      After a few minutes of light sex, Penny said, "We better slip away quietly as we are not supposed to be here. Are you two coming to next weekend's party?" The feeling of this beautiful young feminine creature's tongue still fresh on my mind, I shot back, "You bet. If we are invited."
       
      "Oh, I expect you shall be," Penny smiled. She gazed into my eyes, dropped her hand between her legs, and worked a finger deep into herself. "Until next time...," she said, trailing her finger, wet with her secretions and Jon's cum, stickily across my cheek before resting it on my lips. An invitation which I readily obliged by opening my mouth. Her long finger worked around my tongue, gifting me the taste of her and her lover.
       
      I slipped upstairs and joined the frolicking three on the bed for more and more of what my body desired. Eventually, we fell asleep again and woke around 3 p.m. feeling completely satisfied and sexually drained. A shower and a good cleanup refreshed my body and spirit. Tim and I were due to leave soon, and Susan came to me and said, "You must come to our next weekend party. Please say yes. If you like, bring some friends that will enjoy what you two have this weekend. There is so much more I want to do with you and Tim. We have had a fantastic time."

      On the way home, Tim said solemnly: "You realize that the weekend could have gone dreadfully wrong if it was a trap. We were caught out, well nearly!"

      The following weekend swinger party is another edition of this story…
    • By NerdsAreFun
      Some stats on the swinging world.  Interesting that a slim majority (50.2%) of men now identify as bi.  65.8% in the 18-39 age group.  I think the days of that being a closeted thing in the swinger world are coming to an end.  Also surprised me that 80.5% were soft swap only.
      https://swingershelp.com/swinger-survey-results-2022/
       
       
      And they also provide a list of most popular swinging sites in various cities.
      https://swingershelp.com/popular-swinging-dating-sites/
    • By Erotics
      I'm as straight as an arrow and never even looked at another man in a sexual way. We play as a couple and have had regular 3somes (mfm) which she thoroughly enjoy. The focus is always on her, giving her pleasure and making sure she is having fun.
       
      Recently we were in a 3some with this gent and while we were playing (foreplay) he asked me whether I have ever been touched by or touch another man myself. The answer was no.
       
      He then dared me to touch him, which I then proceeded to do. Funny enough, it was not so weird as I thought it would be and although it felt strange, at the same time it felt familiar.
       
      I then proceeded to keep his dick in my hand and point it towards her mouth while she was blowing him. He did the same with me while she was blowing me later.
       
      Suddenly it was not strange anymore and I even guided his cock into her pussy later on. It all felt so natural in the situation. Fun was had by all 3 of us and it did not gross me out or even the wife.
       
      We (me and wife) had a discussion afterwards and she said she found it actually very kinky and she would like to see me in a male-male experience. Ever since it has been playing in my head and I don't know what to think.
       
      Touching is one thing, but actually going down on someone is something totally different (or is it not?)
       
      Although I still don't look at men in a sexual way, I found myself thinking about this a lot. A part of me says don't do it, you don't find men sexually attractive, but a part of my tell me to not to knock it and try it at least once and then make up my mind.
       
      The wife said that she became bisexual by also experimenting and only later become attracted to females as she became accustomed to the situation.
       
      Do you think I should proceed and experiment?
       
      I don't think I have the guts to take a cock in my mouth and suck it, but a part of me tells me I have the guts and should go ahead. I know it would be big visual turn-on for the wife and I would do anything to turn her on...just not sure about sucking a cock to turn her on. LOL
       
      To be honest, I'm very nervous.
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