When they think "NO" means "Just push harder"

[knottyboi 15]

I'm having a bad emotional reaction to a terrible swinging experience I had several days ago and I need some advice on how to get over it. I apologize for the long post...

 

I had gone to a hotel party (my first one) and I was having a blast. I knew several people there, everyone was super friendly, it was going great. I was invited back to the hotel room of a couple I knew, along with several other couples and two single guys. I'm married but I play as a single female since my partner doesn't play. So, I'd say there were eleven of us.

 

All of us invited were invited because of the expectation that we were all a little freaky, we all liked each other, and there wouldn't be any problems mixin'n'matchin'. And it's true, I liked everyone there, though I didn't know the two single men. So I was fine with having fun with all parties, especially as I had already swung with a few of them.

 

Now, problems for me developed when, as soon as the clothes came off, the couples started swapping, leaving me out cold with the two men I didn't know. They seemed fine, but they quickly became EXTREMELY pushy. There was no friendly foreplay, or asking me what I like, or anything like that. It was like they had paid an entrance fee and, dammit, they were going to get some no matter what.

 

I was a little drunk, so I wasn't as forceful as I normally would be, but I *did* say NO several times, as well as saying, "I'm sorry, but I'm not comfortable with this, I don't want to, no thanks." But it was like every time I turned around, a dick was in my face. I got up and went to the bathroom just to get some breathing space, and as soon as I came out, one of them tried to convince me to fuck him against the bathroom door. I said, no, and walked away.

 

I finally went over to the bed and squished in with two of the couples, who were more than happy for me to do so. I bent over and started going down on one man, when all of a sudden, I felt a dick trying to enter me. WHAT??

 

I whipped around to see the other single guy nonchalantly trying to fuck me, with NO condom on (despite my earlier stating that I don't fuck without them), and he acted like I was ridiculous when I became furious. I had very clearly told him I wasn't interested three times before that.

 

At that point, everyone else realized the problems I was having, and the two single guys were made to leave, and my night significantly improved. But I can't get it out of my mind and it's making me sick to my stomach. I feel like I was almost raped and that pisses me off to no end. I gave this man no suggestion that I wanted to do it with him, I was very clear in saying no, and he was going to do it anyway.

 

What's worse is that I am white-looking and the two men were black. Apparently (out of my hearing) they were bitching that I wouldn't fuck them because they were black, and this was insane because this group of people was very evenly divided between black people and white people, and I had had sex with two of those other black people on a previous occasion. I am NOT racist, and the color of your skin is pretty much on the bottom of my list of preferences that I have.

 

I'm so tired of the view that as a single young bisexual woman, I've got it made. When, in fact, it's extremely stressful, and I get so much pressure, and so many couples and single men act like it's almost an obligation for me to do it with them if many other people are already matched up. It's like I'm an object. The 'unicorn' syndrome sucks real bad for me, since it doesn't matter who I am as a person, I'm just a walking bisexual vagina here to fulfill fantasies. ARGH!

 

I'm sorry for the hatefulness of this, I just can't get over that night and I need help on how to get over it. For those that have had this sort of thing happen to them, how do you cope? I obviously can't explain it to vanillas, since they would simply say that I shouldn't have been doing that sort of thing in the first place.

[SouthBond 18]

You are obviously extremely stressed. You need a vacation from the swinging game. In fact you may need to take a totally new direction.

[Cpl2share 147]

We disagree with southbound, but we are all entitled to our opinions. We feell for you. It is unfortunate that this happened to you, but you do know that not all swinging ends up this way. Mrs. Cpl has been treated in a very similar manner and she is NOT a unicorn. It does happen that some men are just pigs (we have run into two women who acted the same way toward both of us though) and should be excluded from breathing air, but that isn't allowed. Just like with everything else about swinging, sometimes you get the peach and sometimes you get the pit. You did right and should continue to do what you enjoy.

[knottyboi 15]

Southbound, I'd hate to have this keep me from swinging, that's why I wanted to get advice on how to get past it. I really enjoy swinging and have had all positive experiences up until now, and I go to the club about every other week. I don't really want to take a vacation, I want to learn how to not let this affect my future swinging experiences.

 

Cpl2share - you're right. I should be grateful that for the past six months all I've had is the peach! Maybe that's why this is affecting me so strongly. Up until now, it's all been happy and rainbows and sparkles.

[tribbles 490]

For me to get past things, I have to understand what it is that bothers me.

 

Could it be that if you were more intoxicated, they might have gotten away with doing more? It is that you didn't assert yourself and tell the couples what was going on right away?

 

I don't see you as having been in danger of being raped...other than by you not stopping if you had been too drunk to catch them at the entry point. All you ever had to do was make enough of a scene to get help from others in the room. You made the choice to not get that help right away. You did learn that as soon as others knew there was a problem, they jumped in and helped you. Next time, speak up faster!

 

All of us invited were invited because of the expectation that we were all a little freaky, we all liked each other, and there wouldn't be any problems mixin'n'matchin'.

 

I gave this man no suggestion that I wanted to do it with him

 

I've been in wild one room/one bed everyone ok with touching and licking. No one stops to ask "what do you like?" right away, and no one stops to even ask "may I touch you?"...we are all in one room, all in a go for it attitude and if someone does something I don't want, I say "stop, please don't". If someone didn't listen then, I'd get loud so others would get them away from me.

 

It's possible, that these men have been in that kinda situation before and therefore, thought they didn't need to do more than offer up a stiff penis. Then it's not that they are jerks but that they misread the way the party was going. I have a tendency to ask or at least look for permission when I go to touch someone but we have been in orgies where a female we don't know, jumps on my hubby's stiffy and starts riding it. We don't know her name, she didn't put a condom on him...he was hard and she wanted to ride. We were shocked at first but learned, if we let ourselves go to a group party like that, that's part of what we are accepting. Yes, there was a time he lifted a lady off. Now we know when we are with that kinda group. If we don't wanna play, we don't go in the room with them.

 

(Yeah, we have played with a wild crowd a few times )

 

The guys were wrong to push, but you were wrong not to speak up, loudly, faster. IMHO.

[TNT 1,155]

You didn't do anything wrong...the single men however did. No means No.

 

The only thing I see that you could have done differently was to have immediately, after saying no and neither of them accepting your no, gone directly to the couple who invited you to the room and explained to them you were having problems with another guest.

 

Any host/hostess worth their salt will handle any problem a guest is having.

 

My suggestion to you is when you go to a place by yourself, make sure you have someone you know that you can go to in these type of situations that will help you handle it...be it the host/hostess and/or someone else you trust.

 

You said that your night improved once the single men were made to leave so just chalk this up to a learning experience and continue to have fun.

 

 

Teresa

[Swing*8701 887]

Susan here-- You've had an extreme experience where you felt violated and were. These are strong emotional experiences, whether they're sexual in nature or not. And justifiably, some people, don't get over them quickly.

 

Years ago, in college, Ed went to a night of avante garde performances. It was typical college stuff. Then, a blind guitar player performed folk music, who was a woman. out of the crowd came two men how started to abuse her. Eddie immediately came to her defense while the crowd watched. It was part of the act. The woman expected noone to come to her aid and demonstrate how violence against women goes unchallenged. Well, she was wrong about that. Security was called and the evening ended. Eddie was really upset, as was everyone there, when it turned out to be 'art'. It took him a long time to get over it because the emotions of the moment were so strong. I think you'll be the same way. Now, it didn't mean we didn't go out any more. He was just ticked off at the person who had the audacity to try something like that.

 

While he won't let the experience effect his life, the emotions of anger, dare I say rage, over it, took time to pass. It's normal.

[Tybee Swing 286]

I had gone to a hotel party (my first one)...

 

...they quickly became EXTREMELY pushy. There was no friendly foreplay, or asking me what I like, or anything like that. It was like they had paid an entrance fee and, dammit, they were going to get some no matter what...

 

...I bent over and started going down on one man, when all of a sudden, I felt a dick trying to enter me. WHAT??

 

I whipped around to see the other single guy nonchalantly trying to fuck me, with NO condom on (despite my earlier stating that I don't fuck without them), and he acted like I was ridiculous when I became furious. I had very clearly told him I wasn't interested three times before that...

 

It's like I'm an object...

 

Hi knottyboi,

 

My first huge hotel event had both good and bad elements to it. Among the bad elements, there were moments when I felt like an object. There were moments I was disrespected. I relate to the feelings.

 

At a certain house party on another occasion, I experienced an extremely pushy man whom I'd already had to say "no" to several times and/or remove his hand from me, and he still later came up behind me when I was bent over and tried to mess with me. I'm married and was with my husband; he was married and was with his wife. I had the same anger and feelings of being dissed and violated that you have. (Unfortunately, it's not always just the single guys, and the victims of this kind of treatment aren't always the single ladies.)

 

I sympathize and empathize. You have a right to feel this way.

 

I've learned that it wasn't my fault, but that I do need to be much more forceful when necessary after the first polite "no" is being ignored. From now on, the second "no" is going to be loud and in his face, alerting others if necessary. Wish it didn't have to be this way, but sometimes it just is.

 

For those that have had this sort of thing happen to them, how do you cope?

 

I allow myself to feel what I'm feeling, including feeling scared after the fact, and angry. I process it and give it a little time. Then, I decide what I can and will do differently next time, so that I'm more in control. It may include considering that certain types of events or certain scenarios may not be for me. I also think about the good times that were had and the great people I met, so that I don't overly focus on the few creeps out there who ruined the evening. The good people outweigh the bad.

 

Hugs to you!!

[ShellyM 0]

I agree with the other posters girl, they were wrong. Sometimes things just get out of hand, alcohol numbs the brain and people do dumb things. But drunk or not, no means no. There is no "well you are a swinger, you were there to have sex" card. No absolutely means just that, NO. I would take a bit to relax and regather your thoughts. Do you know them? It may help to at least send them an email letting them know that in your mind what they did was basically on the verge of sexual assault. The first time you say NO is the only time you should have to say it. Yes, unfortunately it happens. People do dumb things. Last weekend we were at a house party, and a gent swims up to me and asks if he can touch me. Dummy me, I'm thinking touch means my breasts or something like that....well, he reaches down and sticks 2 fingers in me. I was not amused. I didn't show out, but I let him know that I did not think that was what he meant lol. My point is, know that you did nothing wrong. Swinger or not, house party or not, that is your body and you have every right to determine who does what to YOU.

Best of luck, keep your chin up and know that those creaps are the vast minority...99% of the men would never imagine doing such a thing to a woman.

Shell

[LOL_OMG 130]

I don't see you as having been in danger of being raped...other than by you not stopping if you had been too drunk to catch them at the entry point. All you ever had to do was make enough of a scene to get help from others in the room. You made the choice to not get that help right away. You did learn that as soon as others knew there was a problem, they jumped in and helped you. Next time, speak up faster!

I disagree here. She made it clear to these guys she wasn't interested, and then one of them sticks a cock in her? Without a condom? I'm thinking at some level that WAS rape.

 

 

Knotty you're probably feeling similar feelings to those of a rape victim I would guess. Maybe guilt from - did I do or say enough? Maybe anger from why didn't he take no for an answer, or why didn't anyone else intercede? I would say do a little google searching on the subject and you might find out at least why you are feeling what you are.

 

Mrs

[tribbles 490]

I felt a dick trying to enter me. WHAT??

 

I whipped around to see the other single guy nonchalantly trying to fuck me, with NO condom on (despite my earlier stating that I don't fuck without them)

 

I disagree here. She made it clear to these guys she wasn't interested, and then one of them sticks a cock in her? Without a condom? I'm thinking at some level that WAS rape.

 

The way I read it, the cock did NOT get in.

 

I kinda suspect this is another of those situations where too many participants had a tad too much to drink to pay attention to each other like they need to.

[StacyCat 30]

I was in a room with a few swingers. I was sitting on the dresser, and one guy was trying to get my pants off, while I didnt want them to come off. He pulled me off the dresser, bringing the dresser, lamp and TV down with us.

 

Rather than doing anything about it, the "hostess" invited him over to fuck her, saying that I was mean for doing that! WTF!

 

Basically, being a single female means watching out for yourself, and knowing who you can go to. In this situation, after the guys were obviously not getting the hint, I would have gone to the host/hostess, and explained the situation. Also, if you are comfortable with some of the couples, talk with one or two of them, and ask them to keep and eye on you, make sure this type of thing doesnt happen.

[The Fuse 1,012]

Alcohol or no alcohol, play situation or not, people who have never played with each other before have seriously got to make sure that sexual advances are welcome. These two guys clearly felt entitled, which is exactly the wrong attitude.

 

knottiboi, please don't take any blame on yourself. You said no, you meant no. In the future, you might avoid these things happening by simply saying "not interested" in a more forceful way, one that leaves no doubt even to a guy whose dick is speaking to him loudly in a primal language.

 

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It was a sexually charged situation where the guys might have had some reasonable expectation of play with someone, since the hostess invited them in. But trying to enter you from behind while you were otherwise occupied, and without your prior permission, is attempted rape. They did not respect you. If anything, the first time you have sex with a new playmate, they ought to be making damn sure you really want it, not trying to slip it in.

 

Have you talked with your hostess about this? Hindsight is 20-20, but perhaps she should have checked with you before invited two single guys you'd never been with.

[Alura 2,774]

I don't see any reason why you needed to be more assertive, Knottyboi. Once you said, "No!" there should have been no repeat request.

 

I wonder what might have happened had one of the single men approached another man and asked if he were interested in fucking him... Let's assume the gentleman, like you, said, "No" and the single guy had tried later to enter him anally while he was going down on a woman. I suspect violence would have ensued.

 

You were the victim of sexual prejudice, nothing less. You definitely came close to being raped. You have no reason to blame yourself. You have every reason to remain angry for some time for being treated like a whore and worse.

 

Mr. Alura

[Jeok 3]

You weren't to blame. Consider the source. "Bad" now means "Good" in the new bastardization of the language. "Whore," "Slut," "Cunt," "Bitch," "Rape," "Screw, "Fuck. etc., are supposedly the new "Terms Of Endearment" according to so called Music and their corresponding videos. It's time we all stand & protest having such viscious trash portrayed in popular culture to demean women: Swinger, Vanilla, Black, White, or Other. IMHO Jeok

[intuition897 2,179]

Who in the fuck let the jerk-offs in? And who referred them?? Knotty, I think they would've gotten a polite brush off, maybe two, from me, and if they further persisted, they get their dicks stepped on. I think they wouldn't have left the party without knowing EXACTLY what the problem was, because I'd be real clear about it. They'd have no doubt.

 

I haven't been single in over 13 years and never swung before that, so I can't say I know how you feel. But I can guess. We haven't run into assholes quite that bad yet, but it's SOBs like these that make the lifestyle as inaccessible to single men as it is. No condom no less?! Holy freaking shit.

 

It's this sort of ignorance and lack of respect for swinging that makes me want to get out and advocate for the lifestyle; it won't get any better until people understand what is is and is not about! I know it's a pointless endeavour, but what can I say? I'm an idealist.

[ShellyM 0]

I agree with past posts. You cannot use alcohol as an excuse. We are adults, and drunk or not we make decisions.....sometimes BAD ones, but they are decisions that we are responsible for. There is no way you can justify what these 2 men did, its as simple as that. There is just no excuse for ever putting your hands on a person's body when you have been told no. She said no, there should have been no mis-understanding. Just my 2 cents.

Shell

[knottyboi 15]

I can't tell you all how much your support means to me. I was feeling like a "bad swinger" because I didn't just go with it, and I coudn't understand why I was feeling so terrible about myself. I *did* tell them both twice I wasn't interested and I said "no" very clearly. I didn't beat around the bush about it. So that's why it was even worse when one of them came a hair's breath from going inside me - it was such a surprise and so very unwelcome. The hostess did end up apologizing to me later because she knew all of us but not them, they had been vouched for by other friends of hers that didn't end up coming to the room.

 

It was hard to hear that some of you think that it pretty much was to be expected, that that is what group sex is about, but I can't believe that. I've been in a few groups before and it was always very respectful, always with each person either asking out loud if it was okay, or approaching each other in a slow way to give a person a chance to say no. I've never been made to feel like a whore.

 

I appreciate your kind words and it's helped that one man that was there wrote me and said that he was unhappy with what had happened but that he thinks I handled it really well, and this all has made me feel so much better.

[tribbles 490]

I'm curious...with what you have learned/thought since it happened, would YOU do anything different if it happened again someday?

 

You don't have to answer, I just tend to work to learn how I would change things if they happen again. Knowing that, helps me feel more comfy...in life, not just swinging.

 

Glad you are feeling better.

[LOL_OMG 130]

I too was surprised to see some of the nonchalant comments that this was in some way to be expected. If a situation like this is ever deemed okay generally, it's time for me to quit swinging.

 

Something you could have done differently: Maybe grabbed him by the balls and started to twist, then when he said "NO" you could have said "what? what was that word?"

 

Mrs

[The Fuse 1,012]

I've been in a few groups before and it was always very respectful, always with each person either asking out loud if it was okay, or approaching each other in a slow way to give a person a chance to say no.

This is the way it should be.

 

Those guys were wrong, they disrespected you, and it wasn't your fault. You could do the "should'a, would'a, could'a" thing as much as you want, and it wouldn't change what they did or how wrong it was.

 

I've never been in your situation, but my gut tells me it may take a while for you to feel completely better about what happened to you, and you should feel fine taking your time with your feelings. Some people might brush it off, but please listen to what your inner voice tells you in this regard.

 

Being "a good swinger" means always respecting those around you.

[tribbles 490]

We have been throwing parties in -removed- for the past month and a

half every weekend so why should this Saturday be any different?

IT WONT BE!

This sat June 23, we will be right back in the same spot in -removed-

doin what we do best and that is GETTIN FREAKY!

This may well be the last time we have access to this particular house

so ya better not miss this!!!

 

just to make it interesting, we are gunna make it a PUSSY EATIN PARTY

 

ladies if u like ta get your puccie ate or have that salad tossed, BE

THERE!!!

 

LADIES DON'T NECESSARILY HAFTA BE BUT.... Guys, if ur not a pussy

eater Then stay ya ass at home!!

this party is going to be ATTENDED BY GUYS ( and girls) who have an

unquenchable predilection for eatin pussy!

the rules are simply

 

LADIES IF U SEE SUM ONE WHO U WANT TO EAT YOUR PUSSY, DONT EVEN BOTHER

ASKIN!

SIMPLY LEAD HIM TO

A BED, COUCH, CHAIR, WHATEVER, AND PUT IT N HIS FACE. GET YA PUSSY

LICKED TILL U BUST AND MOVE ON THE THE NEXT PUSSY LICKER

NO RECPROCATION NECESSARY! OF COURSE IF YOU WANNA GET YA GROOVE ON, BY

ALL MEANS, FEEL FREE. but make him lick it if he wants ta stick it!!!!

 

AS ALWAYS THERE WILL BE A GANG BANG ROOM FEATURING THE LOVELY, FREAKY

~name removed~ FOR THE LADIES WHO JUST CANT GET ENOUGH BIG DICK

 

I'm just gonna say this is the invite for a party coming this Sat not too far from me.

 

Which is why, I want you all to understand that while what the guys did with the OP was wrong ...they may not 'get it' until someone explains it. It depends on their prior experience.

 

Telling others when someone is not hearing a NO is an important thing to do. Get help. At a party no one is on their own and alone.

 

You can say this party 'is not swinging' but in case you missed it, there seems to be more than one way to describe swinging. It may not be what you think is swinging but what if it is to someone you meet at a small party and are in a room with before you find out they think different from you......

 

We have been caught off guard more than once....and learned our own limits and how to enforce them. No one should ever feel bad keeping to their own limits no matter what it takes to make themselves heard.

 

At a party like that above, if you didn't know what it is like from the invite (and at least they are very blunt, not all are), then saying no and if necessary leaving the party, is the right thing to do.

[BiKyCouplefor2 30]

Knottyboi,

 

Sorry to hear that you were put into a situation where people were not respectful. When single guys act like that it is a wonder that any of them get any interaction!. My wife and I are from the Louisville area and would love the opportunity to chat with you if you were interested......

 

M&C

[nice_cpl_n_bama 24]

The way I read it, the cock did NOT get in.

OK, ATTEMPTED rape if you want to split hairs, a slightly less serious felony.

I'm sorry you had such a bad time. I don't mind it when someone tries to define the scope of a no. Does this "no" mean "no, I don't want you to touch me there, but anywhere else is ok" or does this no mean "no, I'd rather jam my hand in the garbage disposal than be touched by you."

On the other hand if someone just won't take no for an answer it's time to toss them out. The time for those bums to have been tossed was when you had to hide in the bathroom to get away. That was the moment for the bums rush.

I (the male half) have been in a group play room and have penetrated women without asking in words, but I always touched first and made sure she knew I was there and what I intended to do so she had the chance to object. It's just politeness.

I'm sorry that simple politeness is beyond some people.

[Ruff 105]

I've not only attended huge hotel parties I've been part of the security at many and the OP's experience is not as rare as U'd think. Sone guys come to parties expecting to fuck and any words to the contrary fall on deaf ears. I've had a woman basically RUN across a mansion's 2nd floor and squeeze between me and the wall while gripping my arm as tightly as she could to get away from a guy and to stop other guys from groping her. Like the OP's (and another poster's) example(s) many times the guys who do this are FRIENDS of the host/hostess so they feel they can get away with anything. What she did or didnt drink, said or didn't say has absolutely no bearing on what happened, guys who feel they are owed pussy act accordingly regardless if it's a private room or the main playroom @ the party. When fellaz act like this it's called "thirsty" and it's not an endearing descriptive term.

[blackcreme2003 15]

I'm married but I play as a single female since my partner doesn't play.

Question....Does your partner knows what had happen to you?

[OnHArry 23]

I can really sympathise with you Knottiboi, my wife had two bad experiences, in a month and she won't do anything now except one boyfriend she has.

 

I of course am left out in the cold, (poor me) but seriously, the first time you said no should have been more than adequate, I would never dream of forcing myself on someone who did not want me, for whatever reason.

 

You were right no one deserves to be treated that way and as one poster observed, well several actually, these guys were obviously not swingers, but seemed to assume that because they were at a swinger party that any woman they wanted would fall down at their feet and spread her legs, NOT.

 

I hope you do cope and go on to have more fun, but I also know from my wife's experience it really weighs you down. Take care and have fun.

[katcouple 15]

As far as I'm concerned, no means no...period. These guys should have respected that and moved on, IMHO.

[venom526 0]

On 6/18/2007 at 3:11 PM, SouthBond said:

You are obviously extremely stressed. You need a vacation from the swinging game. In fact you may need to take a totally new direction.

You are probably a rapist if you agree with those actions, you are sick

[MidwestHoneys 358]

2 hours ago, venom526 said:

You are probably a rapist if you agree with those actions, you are sick

15 year old post. 

[hlgcpl4fun 79]

Sabrina hosted many house parties for a couple of years. We hosted monthly "couples" parties, and a BBC or ABC( All about The Cock) parties every two or three months. At one of our ABC parties we had one of our regulars bring two friends who he vouched for. They got extremely aggressive with three of the wives who where there for a good time and eere regulars. One of the husbands came and got me. They got froggy with me, but i an a pretty big guy and I can be even more aggressive.  I ended up grabbing one, the two husbands grabbed the other and they were shown the door. It really put the ladies at ease to know that at least at our parties, no really means NO.