Open Marriage: How to word it in ads

[swyngtyme 16]

Okay, here's the thing. I'm looking for help in figuring out a good way to word my situation in profiles and/or contact e-mails, or even in conversation.

 

See, I'm married. I make no bones about it, I wear my wedding ring even to swingers clubs. My wife and I have an open relationship, though I guess you can't really call us swingers, because we only play separately. She hates the club scene, has absolutely no interest in threesomes or couple-swapping or anything. She only plays with old friends--she has one old boyfriend she's recently reconnected with, and they've had a good time, and there are a couple other men she's talking to to see if she wants to move further. I'm totally okay with this, I send her out the door with a smile, putting the condoms in her hand and wishing her a good time, even eager to hear about it (when she's ready) when she comes home.

 

Additionally, we have a young son, just turning two. He's an extremely intense little boy, who can go from happy to screaming enough to rattle the windows in two seconds. He gets violent, and he's very big for his age (think two year old in a four year old's body), so he's got the strength to do some damage. In other words, we can't get a sitter, so one of us needs to be with him at all times. I'm a stay at home dad right now for a reason.

 

These two factors mean that, here I am in the swingers community, hoping for a few playmates and new experiences of my own, but looking by myself. Worst of all, I see and understand the problems many couples have with "single" guys who are actually married but cheating, so many people will automatically suspect that I am lying. I try to help this by pointing out that my wife is totally behind my search, and if anyone has interest in me, they can meet her to confirm my story before anything happens between us.

 

But I'm looking for a good way to word all of this, some way that hopefully comes across honest, genuine, perhaps even a little funny, but above all--how can I word it so it seems neither creepy nor like a bad line?

 

So far, struggling as I've been, the best I've come up with usually comes out something like this: "I'm married, but my wife and I play separately. I know that sounds like a cheater's line, but you can meet my wife to confirm."

 

If I were a different sort of person, I'd just leave the ring at home and say I'm single. But that's not me, that's not who I am. What's more, with the kind of intimacy involved in what I'm hoping to eventually find, there's just no room for any dishonesty or falseness in that kind of thing. If you start out with any, it will (and deserves to) fall apart long before you get to any good result.

 

 

Anyway, that's my situation. Can you help me put it well for profiles and conversations? Thanks for any help.

[harsh 15]

Well, this could be very very stupid, OR very very innovative...... But if I were you, I would have my wife write my profile. She may be able dispell the inherent skepticism from a feminine point of view. The hope would be that she could also provide a testimonial on your behalf , thus riding you of the need to talk yourself up on the profile.

 

A tag line like "My Husband is a man for all seasons". As the married male of a couple, I couldn't guarantee I would contact you, but I would certainly give it a read.

 

For what it's worth.......

[racewalker 15]

my marriage is the same the wife has a boyfriend and is happy with the both of us. she has encourged me to be open and seek others. she is not interested swing life but is very intersted in the poly-life .

She is not a sexual person but I am only with the right people. she encourges my sexual side by telling me to go for it. and exlpore there is some great people who swing.I wish I could get going and meet some new friends and see what happens

[ShellyM 0]

OP, the problem that you are going to find is this: Most married men playing alone are in reality cheating husbands. So you will find that there is a stigma out there against men who play without their wives, even with their permission. Jay and I have each other's permission to do this as well (although its saved for rare treats and we do not allow it to become common or habit)...but even when I get on cam and talk with ladies they shy away. Sorry to say it, but you just cannot trust anyone out here and I don't blame them. So I think this will be your main issue in finding playmates. I agree with letting your wife write the profile. One thing our friend did was this: SLS allows you to do a video intro. His wife got on and did a recording saying who she is and yes, she is consenting to him playing alone. Again however, that could be his sister for all we know LOL (although they are honest people). I think m&gs may be a good bet for you.

Best of luck,

Shelly

[swyngtyme 16]

Shelly: What's "m&gs"? Yeah, video is not a bad idea, where available. My wife and I both appearing and her talking about our arrangement, and even showing a picture from our wedding so people know she's really my wife? ;-)

 

Harsh: That is an interesting thought, and actually one that occured to me while I was writing that post. I wonder, though, if it wouldn't just look like a silly gimmick? However, I suppose, if it's a gimmick that gets someone to read through the whole listing instead of skimming and moving on, that might be worth it.

 

I guess I just have to face the fact that, no matter what I do, it may simply never be enough for most people. Time to write the best profile I can come up with and all but forget about it--be patient and sit and wait.

[graygo98 148]

I think that a truly suspicious person would doubt even a video intro with both of you in it. After all, Churchill used doubles all the time. In reality though, any online ad --- single guy/woman who isn't, couple that are married, but not to each other --- is a bit of a crap shoot until you meet. You write well, appear sensitive to others and how they might perceive you.... you are streets ahead of a lot of the single guys that post ads.

 

I think the approaches suggested above will further improve your odds to about as good as it gets. In fact, there is a person in your position from SW Ontario on AFF now. He makes full disclosure and from his testimonials seems to have made out ok. So, it can work. In fact, once you drive by the initial suspicion, someone in an honest open relationship is probably going to be a much better bet than some guy who is primarily looking for an LTR but will take any no-strings-attached sex he can get in the meantime. Much more likely to "get" the lifestyle mindset.

 

I think Shelly meant "meet and greets", swinger get-togethers in your area. As someone who is just starting out, your best bet would probably be a club. Although most don't allow single guys, some do. But it won't be like shooting fish in a barrel... there is a lot of competition and most of it is ruining it for the few "good" guys.

[swyngtyme 16]

Yeah, I've tried the club thing a few times. Even got special permission last Saturday to be solo on a couples only night. Never felt so much like a leper in my whole life. On the nights when singles are allowed, there are too many of us. On that night when we normally wouldn't be, the people who go on couples only nights do so partly because they don't want to deal with singles, so I'm even more of an outsider.

 

Frankly, with the odds as they are, although the clubs make a personal impression easier, the number of times on average that I'd have to go to the clubs and spend the night bored and lonely for it to work out even once--I just can't afford that kind of coin.

[swyngtyme 16]

Oh, and about meet & greets--except clubs, people around here don't seem to do that. The BDSM community is very active, and the do meet-ups they call "munches"--in a public restaurant, low-pressure, ways to get to know people to maybe invite them to parties, or just to see each other socially. Within casual driving distance, I could go to at least four regular monthly ones. But I can't find that the swingers community does any such thing, at least around here.

[Alura 2,774]

Since your wife has a regular boyfriend, why not find yourself a regular girlfriend? Perhaps one who's interested in swinging?

 

Of course, there are some couples who won't play unless their playcouple is legally married (to each other) but some will. Such an arrangement wouldn't solve your problems but might ease them a bit. It would certainly lower the admission cost at clubs.

 

Don't mislead anyone by pretending to be married. Once again, honesty is the most important requirement in swinging (in my opinion).

 

Alura

[swyngtyme 16]

Yes, a regular--that's actually what I'm trying to find.

 

I hope you're not suggesting above that I'm pretending to be married. It would be rather hard to follow up on my promise to let people meet my wife, and have her tell them herself that I'm allowed to go and play. If they think it's a friend I've coerced into saying that, I'll let them look at our wedding photos! :-)

[Alura 2,774]

It looks like you've got that situation well in hand. Good luck, and let us know how it goes, Swyngtyme. No, I never thought you might be single and pretending to be married.

 

On how to meet SO II: I shared this idea in a similar hread some time ago, so please forgive me if I again repeat myself again.

 

About a century ago I had some married friends who had met through a video dating service. A seeker would do a video tape in which he told of his hopes and interests in a new partner. You could also view the tapes the other sex had made.

 

My suggestion is to join one of these services if they will agree that you can say anything you want (that's legal, of course) on your video. Talk of the usual things such as education, career, etc., but also say "In my next relationship, I want to be involved with my SO in the Swingers Lifestyle. We can discuss details over dinner."

 

You may not reap many inquiries but the ones you get will be good ones. You only need one.

 

Who knows? Might work!

 

Alura

[swyngtyme 16]

I've taken a new stab at writing my profile for a couple of sites, part of which addresses my unique situation. I re-wrote it several times to shorten it, and realized in the end, partly from the helpful replies in this thread, that (when it comes to words on the screen) there's only so much I can do--they'll either believe me, or not believe me, or perhaps reserve judgement and give me the chance to prove it--but a whole lot of explaining won't make it any better than just laying it out simply. Let me know what you think of this new profile. I've used only two simple sentences of it to describe my situation.

 

*****

Here I sit, trying to write my profile in some way that will let me stand out from the crowd, without sticking out like a sore thumb. Is that even possible?

 

I'm in an open marriage, but my wife and I only play separately, at her choice. My wife can and will vouch for my honesty on this. I'll consider solo females or couples (I've never had a threesome yet, but maybe we can teach each other some new things), but no cheaters--I won't be a part of that. I'm hoping to eventually find someone for a "friends with benefits" situation, but the first step isn't the benefits, it's the friends.

 

Okay, let's be honest--this is a swinger site, we're all here looking for sex. But there's *so* much more to it than that. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you that I'm going to be the best you've ever had, or that I can offer something no one else can, or that I'm hung like a mule or anything like that. Rather, I will try to convince you that I'm a nice, safe, sane guy, who just wants a little adventure, with everyone's pleasure in mind. My wife says that I have a great butt and nice big, strong hands, but that's her opinion--maybe you won't agree, so I won't even try to sell myself on that. I'll just hope that an honest and decently-written profile catches your attention, and that you might want to find out more--then maybe you can decide those things for yourself.

*****

 

What do you think?

[racewalker 15]

I agree with swingtime its hard . you try to be honest with people but everyone has distrust (which maybe founded inmost cases) but what about us who tell the truth aout our lifestyle.

[Tybee Swing 286]

*****

Here I sit, trying to write my profile in some way that will let me stand out from the crowd, without sticking out like a sore thumb. Is that even possible?

 

I'm in an open marriage, but my wife and I only play separately, at her choice. My wife can and will vouch for my honesty on this. I'll consider solo females or couples (I've never had a threesome yet, but maybe we can teach each other some new things), but no cheaters--I won't be a part of that. I'm hoping to eventually find someone for a "friends with benefits" situation, but the first step isn't the benefits, it's the friends.

 

Okay, let's be honest--this is a swinger site, we're all here looking for sex. But there's *so* much more to it than that. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you that I'm going to be the best you've ever had, or that I can offer something no one else can, or that I'm hung like a mule or anything like that. Rather, I will try to convince you that I'm a nice, safe, sane guy, who just wants a little adventure, with everyone's pleasure in mind. My wife says that I have a great butt and nice big, strong hands, but that's her opinion--maybe you won't agree, so I won't even try to sell myself on that. I'll just hope that an honest and decently-written profile catches your attention, and that you might want to find out more--then maybe you can decide those things for yourself.

*****

 

What do you think?

 

I like it, but I'd add just a bit more to make it really clear. As a woman, I think this extra bit would be something I'd need and want to know. Here it is, with my insertion in bold:

 

*****

Here I sit, trying to write my profile in some way that will let me stand out from the crowd, without sticking out like a sore thumb. Is that even possible?

 

I'm in an open marriage, but my wife and I only play separately, at her choice. My wife and I are very close, loving, and honest with each other. She has her own special "friends with benefits" relationships, which I support. Likewise, she is supportive of me. My wife can and will vouch for my honesty on this. I'll consider solo females or couples (I've never had a threesome yet, but maybe we can teach each other some new things), but no cheaters--I won't be a part of that. I'm hoping to eventually find someone for a "friends with benefits" situation, but the first step isn't the benefits, it's the friends.

 

Okay, let's be honest--this is a swinger site, we're all here looking for sex. But there's *so* much more to it than that. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you that I'm going to be the best you've ever had, or that I can offer something no one else can, or that I'm hung like a mule or anything like that. Rather, I will try to convince you that I'm a nice, safe, sane guy, who just wants a little adventure, with everyone's pleasure in mind. My wife says that I have a great butt and nice big, strong hands, but that's her opinion--maybe you won't agree, so I won't even try to sell myself on that. I'll just hope that an honest and decently-written profile catches your attention, and that you might want to find out more--then maybe you can decide those things for yourself.

*****

 

Why I added that....I would need and want to know that this is a close, loving couple who have their act together and are very supportive of each other. You didn't really say much of anything about your relationship with your wife, and how that is....but if it's strong and loving and supportive, I would share that fact. What I added also clarifies that your wife is already "getting hers", so she's not being left behind or left out. Honest, caring people don't want to imagine her home alone, feeling isolated and abandoned (like a cheater's wife).

[swyngtyme 16]

For one of my ads, that's fine, and I understand why it's good. For another place that I tried to put this up, it was already more than 150 characters too much, and I had to cut it down--there's no room for more.

 

Doesn't it already say that we play separately, therefore saying that she does play? Perhaps I can acheive the same effect with just a couple more words, like saying that my loving wife and I only play separately, each with our own playmates, at her choice, which I support.

[Tybee Swing 286]

Doesn't it already say that we play separately, therefore saying that she does play?

 

Not necessarily as clearly as most would want to hear it. It could be just the method or style that you've agreed on, not necessarily what's already taking place. It doesn't let people know that she's already actively and happily engaged in playing with her own friend(s).

 

The thing that you'll have to overcome is the suspicion that you're just another married guy out there trying to get laid. You're working to ease people's suspicions that you're either cheating, or leaving a woman sitting home alone who doesn't want to play or swing, but just "lets" you get some on the side so you won't divorce her. These are thoughts that occur to people looking at ads like yours, which is why it's important to clearly share these facts: you're a team and you're in this together, happily...she's totally on board with it. You're honest and open with each other about it.

 

good luck.

[graygo98 148]

I think you have done a great job. Sincerity and intelligence are very attractive.

 

The only small point: are you looking for a single fem to swing with? A couple for an MFM? All of the above? When we read ads we are looking for someone who wants what we want. We are not looking to to be an item on some guy's shopping list. If it takes separate ads to achieve different ends, so be it.

 

Now obviously you need some pics. For a single guy looking to hook up with a couple, a clear and friendly looking face pic really stands out. It also backstops your real message.... that you are an above-board guy with nothing to hide. Pics that show you doing normal things that reflect your interests... canoeing, hiking, whatever .... are also a real joy after the 40th picture of some guy wanking off.

[swyngtyme 16]

Hi, Tybee. I see your point, and I agree. I'll still have to do it in half a dozen words or less, though--I really think that all my previous attemtps belabour the point so much that it might end up seeming *more* like I've got something to hide.

 

Thanks, Graygo. Yes, all my ads have a picture of me, face included. I haven't got a variety to use yet, so that's the only one. I'm always the one behind the camera, os I haven't much lying around, and as for deliberately posing one or two, I can't think of what to create. Sure, activities--what if I don't do anything like those things? A picture of me reading, watching a movie or playing Scrabble just isn't going to impress. ;-) But yes, I don't intend to have any naked pics on my ads. Perhaps if someone asks for one, after having provided one of their own, but then I have to figure out what to take for that, too. I don't think I close-up of my junk is the right idea--I've seen so many say that it's a turn off, or that "we've seen all that, they don't look so much different from each other", plus it kind of creeps me out. I think showing off my butt in a full-body shot when the time comes might be a better idea, but I *still* have to figure out how to pose that well.

 

And yeah, I'm looking for either a solo female or a couple to play with. I didn't want to get too far into specifics in this particular piece of text because, a) many of the places I'll be posting the ad, you already specify those things in another place, so you don't need to type them into your ad, and b) I'm hoping that this text will just catch the interest, and then someone can find out more. In many places there's a second section somewhere for further details, where I can get down to brass tacks. This is intended to be just the teaser.

[swyngtyme 16]

Hey Tybee, how about this:

 

"I'm in an open marriage, but my wife and I only play separately, at her choice (she already has her own playmates). My wife can and will vouch for my honesty on this."

[NumbskullsX2 24]

This whole thing wold be too crazy and too complicated for us. There are a milion single men out there, why should we take the time and go through all the drama of figuring out whether your wife allows you to play or not?

 

Also, you said your wife is seeing her old boyfriend. Isn't that breaking one of the cardinal rules of swinging? (emotional attachments?)

[Spoomonkey 421]

This whole thing wold be too crazy and too complicated for us. There are a milion single men out there, why should we take the time and go through all the drama of figuring out whether your wife allows you to play or not?

 

I completely agree with this. It would seem to me that going through the extra steps necessary just wouldn't be worth the trouble. It is trouble enough getting to know people without the extra hoop or two.

 

That said, I would guess that you can work through it. There are likely couples that won't care - or that will be more than willing to have an extra dinner on the way to getting to know you both.

 

Also, you said your wife is seeing her old boyfriend. Isn't that breaking one of the cardinal rules of swinging? (emotional attachments?)

 

While this is one of our cardinal rules, I think that swinging in general doesn't really have cardinal rules. I mean, we've seen all sorts of arrangements in the lifestyle so far - and comfort zones that are for more relaxed than ours. I guess if they can make it work - more power to them.

 

Spoomonkey

[swyngtyme 16]

This whole thing wold be too crazy and too complicated for us. There are a milion single men out there, why should we take the time and go through all the drama of figuring out whether your wife allows you to play or not?

 

So don't. Maybe there are others who won't find it such a chore to meet someone before they fuck their husband.

 

Also, you said your wife is seeing her old boyfriend. Isn't that breaking one of the cardinal rules of swinging? (emotional attachments?)

 

Based on the people I've met and the things I've read, I'd say that the only cardinal rule of swinging is to respect everyone's rules, and this particular way of playing is one of ours. Perhaps when you say "emotional attachments" you mean :falling in love." That's a very different thing. I consider "emotional attachments" to include caring about one another, and I'd hope to have that with anyone I chose to swing with. Swinging is not, by definition, anonymous or random sex, is it? You're allowed to give a damn about someone before you fall into bed with them?

 

You run your swinging based on your rules (and the rules of those you're with), we'll run ours based on our rules (and the rules of those we're with). Thanks for the input.

[LOL_OMG 130]

Also, you said your wife is seeing her old boyfriend. Isn't that breaking one of the cardinal rules of swinging? (emotional attachments?)

 

Let me say this, there are no Cardinal rules in swinging. There are certain standards that most couples tend to abide by, but even then individual couples tastes can differ to the point some think others are totally nutz. Back in the 70's the 'Cardinal Rule' of swinging was fuck the first person that moves, the eighties and aids changed that. We have good friends in the lifestyle that have girlfriends and boyfriends and appear to still be in love. That type of 'swinging' is not for myself or the Missus and we do not play with them but, it's still considered swinging and if they are happy then God bless em.

 

Mr.

[graygo98 148]

Too complicated? I don't know. The complications in the MFM world (certainly from what has appeared on this board) seem to arise from guys that don't have a clue about any other sort of relationship than the one they imagined Mom and Dad had.

 

From this Board (and more than a few emails) a single guy who understands that sex and love within a marriage can be separated and sex enjoyed for its own sake, without it meaning that the wife is longing for something "extra" is not all that common. Our OP would get that in spades. Seems a lot simpler, really, than responding to an ad from Mr. "9inch Wonder."

 

As far as "cardinal rules".... we missed that book. And from what we have seen its pretty much in every one's own mind. In this case, what his SO feels toward another is their concern, certainly not mine.

[Alura 2,774]

Several posts ago I wrote:

 

Don't mislead anyone by pretending to be married.

 

To which Swyngtyme replied:

 

I hope you're not suggesting above that I'm pretending to be married.

 

Sorry about being so unclear, Swyngtyme. I meant that if you find a "girlfriend" to swing with, don't pretend to be married to her when you seek other couples. That seems to be a common mistake such couples make.

 

Alura

[swyngtyme 16]

I see what you mean now, Alura. No, I wouldn't do that, either. Even beyond the fact that it's just not who am I to prevaricate like that, once I've gone through so much hassle due to telling the truth about the rest of this, why would I start lying at that point?

 

Yes, hassle. Not from you, Alura; I don't mean this paragraph as a personal response, but generally around the lifestyle community as I've experienced it so far. I used to find it mystifying and confounding that the general public, just because they understood it better, had more sympathy for sleeping with someone not your spouse without their knowedge than they had for sleeping with someone not your spouse with their knowledge and approval--they had more of a problem with swinging than with cheating. But now, I'm discovering another problem. It almost seems like some people, if they were looking for a man to add for a threesome, they'd rather choose a guy billed as single, even though they suspect him of being a cheater, than choose a guy billed as married but not cheating and with no secrets. It's almost like some don't care if he's actually cheating, they only care whether they can say "but he *said* he was single" if something goes wrong. *That* I totally don't understand.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

So don't. Maybe there are others who won't find it such a chore to meet someone before they fuck their husband.

 

 

 

Based on the people I've met and the things I've read, I'd say that the only cardinal rule of swinging is to respect everyone's rules, and this particular way of playing is one of ours. Perhaps when you say "emotional attachments" you mean :falling in love." That's a very different thing. I consider "emotional attachments" to include caring about one another, and I'd hope to have that with anyone I chose to swing with. Swinging is not, by definition, anonymous or random sex, is it? You're allowed to give a damn about someone before you fall into bed with them?

 

You run your swinging based on your rules (and the rules of those you're with), we'll run ours based on our rules (and the rules of those we're with). Thanks for the input.

I didn't say that meeting people was a chore. What I said was that meeting a guy who says that his wife says this but he says that, but we don't know what she says because we're not meeting her we're meeting him and she's not available anyway because she's out with one of her other boyfriends and we don't know if she's really his wife anyway or just somebody pretending to be his wife and bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla.

 

Too much drama!

 

Yes we all play by our own rules and we do prefer to be friends with the people we play with, but if somebody (esp a single male) told us he wanted to have a emotional attachment w/me I'm pretty sure my husband would cancell his ticket before we even met. If he didn't, I would, becasue of the unneccssary drama!

 

Sorry but you asked the question i'm just giving you my answers, that's all.

[swyngtyme 16]

I didn't say that meeting people was a chore. What I said was that meeting a guy who says that his wife says this but he says that,

 

Huh? She and I say the same thing.

 

but we don't know what she says because we're not meeting her we're meeting him

 

No, you'd be meeting both of us, that's what I'm talking about.

 

and she's not available anyway because she's out with one of her other boyfriends

 

Well, not available for swinging, no--because that's the way she's chosen to operate in our open marriage. But she is available to talk to, because she'd be sitting right there in front of you at this first meeting.

 

and we don't know if she's really his wife anyway or just somebody pretending to be his wife and bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla.

 

Well, how about these wedding photos I've brought along to the coffee shop (please don't spill on them)?

 

Too much drama!

 

Yes we all play by our own rules and we do prefer to be friends with the people we play with, but if somebody (esp a single male) told us he wanted to have a emotional attachment w/me I'm pretty sure my husband would cancell his ticket before we even met. If he didn't, I would, becasue of the unneccssary drama!

 

Friends, that's all I'm talking about when I mean an attachment. Rather than random, anonymous sex, I'd be looking to have a situation where we know something about each other, care about each other's feelings and well-being, where we're less than boyfriend/girlfriend but far more than strangers who happen to be in the same bed.

 

I should hope your husband would veto that setup, and I would too. That's becoming ployamory, which is not what I'm looking for nor what my wife has.

 

Sorry but you asked the question i'm just giving you my answers, that's all.

 

Right you are, and thank you for giving them. I'm just rather surprised by some of them, that's all.

 

I just think that, if one is the sort to pick someone out from an ad and want to meet them for a coffee on a separate occasion to see them face-to-face before falling between the sheets, then picking someone out from and ad and meeting them for a coffee on a separate occasion to see them face-to-face, and his wife is there to tell you that it really is okay with her that he plays without her, and oh look, here's our wedding photos in case you think I'm just a friend who owes him a favour--that doesn't seem to me like a whole lot of extra hassle or drama. It's just one more cup of coffee sitting on the table.

 

Contrast that with the extra drama of picking someone out from an ad who says he's single, but one suspects maybe he's lying, but because he said so one just decides to believe him; get coffee, hit it off, get together another time to swing and *then* meet his wife, irate and throwing things when she catches him cheating.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

I'd be looking to have a situation where we know something about each other, care about each other's feelings and well-being, where we're less than boyfriend/girlfriend but far more than strangers who happen to be in the same bed.

But aren't those the things that makes a person a boyfriend/girlfriend? If there not, then what does?

 

Also, in your first post, you said you wanted to have an intimate relationship with whoever you meet. Sorry, but that crosses the line! I woldn't want my husband having an intimate relationship with any of our playmates, and I'm sure he wouldn't want me having one, either.

 

I'm sorry, but as my husband says, "this dog just don't hunt"

[Alura 2,774]

I tried hard to give the proverbial married-man-playing-alone the benefit of the doubt but have to admit we agree with you Numbskulls. We want our playmates to be married to each other. Not just for the lack of drama but the extra possibilities. With a lone man (or woman) there is only one possible threesome. With another couple who are willing to take turns (with the left-out person watching or not) there are four. Each person gets to participate in both an MFM and an FMf.

 

Since suitable couples are easier to find, why settle for less?

 

Alura

[socolais 696]

 

Since suitable couples are easier to find, why settle for less?

 

Alura

 

This is an interesting thread and I think there never will be "an answer". When we look at the situation from a combinatorics perspective, the "settling for less" shows up clearly. But that distinction is inconsistent with the apparent demand for the single-bi-female. A single male has a difficult sale, convincing the couple that he's worth the extra effort. What makes one playmate more fun than another? Motivation.

 

I think the core issue has two adverse energy streams - the abundant supply of single males, and the morality of aiding a cheater. We can wade through the streams or walk across the bridge. The problem is overcome by effective salesmanship and followthrough. I think if I were facing this situation as a husband that plays alone, I would appreciate testimonials and word of mouth advertising on my behalf. I think I'd start by finding a local recurring house party with sympathetic hosts. Offer to contribute toward the hosting effort in exchange for validating my status and recommending my services. I think that would be an effective start.

[swyngtyme 16]

Not an intimate relationship... just exactly how do you fuck someone without being intimate?

 

I'm a little tired of the lessons in semantics. I have relationships of one kind or another with my mother, my wife, my son, my friend, and at times in the past, my girlfriend and my friend with whom I sometimes had sex.

 

It is this last which I seek. She and I cared about each other in that we were friends who knew each other pretty well, and either would be upset to hear the other one was unhappy or having a run of bad luck or whatever, and both would do their best not to upset, betray, or otherwise hurt the other. But we were not in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, because we were not exclusive and were not in love.

 

Is this finally clear enough? For that matter, is this really any different from what any of the rest of you seek, except that some seek only the sex with no friendship connection?

[harsh 15]

Swyngtyme: If you have SLS at your disposal, do a search for CoachFun.

 

He's in a similar (not identical) situation as yours where he's allow to play as a single, but also plays as a couple. By his profile, it looks like he's in a dry spell, but his certifications indicate some success, including a cert from his wife. For whatever it's worth.

 

Maybe it was said somewhere on here before, but there are many different variations to the lifestyle that could equal the number of participants in the lifestyle. If it was easy, you wouldn't have come here for advice. But I don't view your situation as a distinct impossibility. We would give your profile an honest look. I just don't have that slam dunk piece of advice to put it over the top for you other than to encourage you and wish you the best of luck!

[Tom4Fun 15]

Not an intimate relationship... just exactly how do you fuck someone without being intimate?

 

I'm a little tired of the lessons in semantics. I have relationships of one kind or another with my mother, my wife, my son, my friend, and at times in the past, my girlfriend and my friend with whom I sometimes had sex.

 

It is this last which I seek. She and I cared about each other in that we were friends who knew each other pretty well, and either would be upset to hear the other one was unhappy or having a run of bad luck or whatever, and both would do their best not to upset, betray, or otherwise hurt the other. But we were not in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, because we were not exclusive and were not in love.

 

Is this finally clear enough? For that matter, is this really any different from what any of the rest of you seek, except that some seek only the sex with no friendship connection?

 

Why wouldn't "love" have any of the components you clearly indicate here?

[swyngtyme 16]

Harsh and Socolais, thanks very much.

 

Tom: Yes, love includes those things. But it includes much more, as well.

[OnHArry 23]

Swyngtyme, I know how you feel. I am in Southern Ontario as well and a married guy playing alone is a real tough sell. My wife and I use to swing but she had a couple of bad experiences last fall, and now plays with one guy and one guy only, with whom she has a high level of comfort, excepting me of course.

 

So I figure hey I know what the couples are thinking when they read ads, and so full disclosure is in order. HAH

 

One couple who said that they actually do swing with singles no problem, responded to me with, "contact us when your wife wants couples again." I suspect however like you suprmised they have probably swung with allegedly single guys who were cheaters, I know my wife and I did and figured it out after the fact.

 

I have tried dating sites and SLS, there is little out there that will even consider us. My wife has volunteered to meet with other couples to put their minds at rest and no takers. I don't have the answer but if it comes up I will let you know. Just like in high school the assholes got the girls and the honest genuine guys do without. Sorry for the rant but this is very frustrating.

[swyngtyme 16]

I hear you, ONHArry.

 

Things may be beginning to look up for me. It turns out that a couple my wife and I are friends with but haven't seen for a couple of years are swingers. They don't really do it any more due to finding too many undesireable people, but aren't closed ot the idea of an occasional foray with friends. I've talked to her about this but not him yet, just because of the way the conversation went, but I'm going to talk to him about it before proceeding in any way. I'm not her type apparently, but she's "not saying no"--considering that I wanted her from the first time I saw her, that's more than I could have hoped for.

 

But more importantly, they were regulars at a club nearby and know the owners, as well as many other swingers. She says that once I broach the subject with him, he'd certainly be willing to introduce me around--that's going to make a BIG difference.

 

Additionally, I have had one positive response to my ads. She's single, recently separated from her boyfriend with whom she swung. Unfortunately, she lives much too far away from me, but she'll be much nearer this coming weekend, and we're going to get together for coffee.

 

Have I posted the latest version of my ads, my latest thoughts on how best to word all this? Using some of the tips I've seen around here for single guy profiles, and the knowledge that there's only so much I can do to convince people that I'm telling the truth, I've deiceded to keep the explanations to a minimum in the profile, and if they're willing to talk to me, I can explain more. Have a look:

 

*********

Here I sit, trying to write my profile in some way that will let me stand out from the crowd, without sticking out like a sore thumb. Is that even possible?

 

I'm in an open marriage, but my wife and I only play separately, at her choice (she already has her own playmates). My wife can and will vouch for my honesty on this. I'll consider solo females or couples (I've never had a threesome yet, but maybe we can teach each other some new things), but no cheaters--I won't be a part of that. I'm hoping to eventually find someone for a "friends with benefits" situation, but the first step isn't the benefits, it's the friends.

 

Okay, let's be honest--this is a swinger site, we're all here looking for sex. But there's *so* much more to it than that. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you that I'm going to be the best you've ever had, or that I can offer something no one else can, or that I'm hung like a mule or anything like that. Rather, I will try to convince you that I'm a nice, safe, sane guy, who just wants a little adventure, with everyone's pleasure in mind. My wife says that I have a great butt and nice big, strong hands, but that's her opinion--maybe you won't agree, so I won't even try to sell myself on that. I'll just hope that an honest and decently-written profile catches your attention, and that you might want to find out more--then maybe you can decide those things for yourself.

*********

 

What do you think?