a selfish husband contemplating divorce

[texmo 16]

I joined this community today because I am looking for some anonymous advice, and I'm sure you will be able to help me.

 

My wife and I have been married for 6 years, and knew each other for 8 months before we got married. We used to be religious Christian conservatives, and we met and married each other while attending a private faith-based university that we were both attending. Life was innocent back then. We followed the expectations of our religious community, one that stresses the importance of family values. She was 8 months pregnant with our first child on our first anniversary. We had a second child about a year ago. Since that child was born, we have both had an "awakening" of sorts, and we have abandoned our faith.

 

This was exhilirating, because it opened a new world of possibilities for us. Among those possibilities was the idea that we could have sex with other people, and there was no God or church to judge us for it. I understand that many people in the lifestyle remain religious and God-fearing people, but our circumstances and thought processes are different now. We have now been swinging for about 7 months, and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought we would continue in the lifestyle indefinitely, but now my wife wants to quit.

 

I've read most of the threads on this board dealing with a spouse that wants to quit (usually the wife) and have read the advice given. I understand that swinging is a partnership, and that if one person in the partnership wants to quit, then that's the end of the discussion. Marriage means devoting yourself to your spouse.

 

The problem that I am facing is that I no longer embrace monogamous relationships like I did when I still maintained my religious faith. I now feel like I am a man of the world, and I want to experience everything that the world has to offer. I have realized that my wife does not wish to join me on such a journey. I want to experience a variety of women and get to know a variety of people. I don't think that I can be happy if I remain with my wife. I don't understand her. I am contemplating divorce.

 

What advice can you folks give me on this? I can understand if your first reaction is, "Hey, this guy is abandoning his wife and family just so he can get his rocks off!" but its a lot more complicated than that. It's more about wanting to experience life, and realizing that I can't do that with my spouse.

[Alura 2,775]

Texmo wrote:

 

I don't understand her.

 

In my opinion, Texmo, your first goal should be to understand your wife. Whether that would require a series of deep conversations or counseling is a choice y'all must make.

 

Has your wife reverted to religion? What, exactly, is the reason she wants to stop playing?

 

Yes, to divorce your wife and traumatize your kids just because she wants to quit playing seems to be pretty selfish to me. Are there, perhaps, other reasons that make you believe you can no longer be happy with her?

 

There is a lot more to learn here, by you in order to choose the right course of action and by the members of this board before we can give sage advice.

 

Alura

[2chase3 25]

Just to give you a piece of advice from experience, once you feel you have exhausted every avenue of reconcilation. Step back and seek another angle.

 

Giving your religious background I know the exact same feeling, you feel like life is wasting away and you are missing out, What crazy stories are you going to tell your grand childern right? But honestly Fate, Religous belief or Charma, which ever you believe has a twisted way of turning around and Biting you square on the ass.

 

I got so tired of hearing that one liner "The grass isnt always greener" one. But guess what, there is some serious truth in that catch phrase. Take a step back and look at the things you enjoy in your life at the moment. How many will no longer be there or the ones you might have taken for granted. You dont truly miss them till they are gone.

 

Now I dont know your whole situation, as there could be other issues which might come into play ,where your former partner is not a equal balance and the best alternative is divorce. But if you are basically baseing your divorce on the idea your wife is no longer interested in swinging. Yes sir, you are selfish and you better grab on to the decent things in your life before they are taken from you.

[sigh35 20]

I smell pre-mature mid-life crisis;) Starting today, take one year of your life (not that long in the grand scheme of things) and focus on what you do have and not on what you think you are missing out on. I have lived in the same small town for all my 35 years, I have never lived anywhere else and have only traveled to two neighboring states. I hate that! But I would not throw away my family to embark on a more adventurous life. If you were diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, and given one year to live, would you want to spend that year having meaningless recreational sex or with those that truly love you? Think about it. Swinger sex is an activity not a purpose.

[texmo 16]

Has your wife reverted to religion? What, exactly, is the reason she wants to stop playing?

Alura

 

No, she hasn't. Her reasons are still unclear to me. From what I can gather, it's that she doesn't feel close to me anymore, and she doesn't want to "take one for the team." I don't expect her to.

 

Yes, to divorce your wife and traumatize your kids just because she wants to quit playing seems to be pretty selfish to me. Are there, perhaps, other reasons that make you believe you can no longer be happy with her?

 

This is more of an early mid-life crisis, as sigh35 said. That's absolutely what it is, and I could have said that in the first place. This means that it has less to do with swinging than a desire to experience more.

[texmo 16]

Giving your religious background I know the exact same feeling, you feel like life is wasting away and you are missing out, What crazy stories are you going to tell your grand childern right? But honestly Fate, Religous belief or Charma, which ever you believe has a twisted way of turning around and Biting you square on the ass

 

I am a bitter anti-religious person now because of this. It will take some time to heal.

 

I got so tired of hearing that one liner "The grass isnt always greener" one. But guess what, there is some serious truth in that catch phrase. Take a step back and look at the things you enjoy in your life at the moment. How many will no longer be there or the ones you might have taken for granted. You dont truly miss them till they are gone.

 

That sounds like a classic Cinderella rock song from the 80's. I suspect that you're right.

 

Now I dont know your whole situation, as there could be other issues which might come into play ,where your former partner is not a equal balance and the best alternative is divorce.

 

She was unequal from the beginning. I married her for the wrong reasons, reasons that were dictated by my religious upbringing. I couldn't have sex before marriage, and I was horny. As I was considering marrying her, red flags were going off in my head, but I ignored those red flags and took the plunge.

 

We approached swinging because both of us wanted to experience more. I think one thing that could have happened is that once she experienced it, and realized for herself that there wasn't much to it, she decided that she no longer wanted to do it. She is done playing around, but I have only just begun.

[BiloxiCouple 695]

Marriage counselling.

[Genie 15]

Been there, done that !! Your sexual urges won't go away just because you try to ignore them. Sex is not everything in life, but it's always a part of life....you can't ignore it.

I'm sorry I don't have the answer for you. Marrying for the wrong reason is a bitch!

It's so much more complicated when you have kids. It takes years for other people to understand our reasons for doing what we do. Wish I could have been of some help...

Genie

[Alura 2,775]

Texmo wrote:

 

I am a bitter anti-religious person now because of this. It will take some time to heal.

 

It could be worse. You could be a dedicated student at Oral Roberts University right now. Talk about having the rug pulled from under you...

 

Seriously, I still believe you need to explore your problems with your wife before breaking your family. I spent fifteen years single after my divorce (no children) before I learned to communicate and met my wife. The disappointments were many and varied during that time of my life. Sex was not regular by any means!

 

Is there any chance you could get your wife to join us in this discussion? How does she feel about being a single mother? How do you feel about another man raising your children using your money?

 

Mr. Alura

[texmo 16]

I'm sorry I don't have the answer for you. Marrying for the wrong reason is a bitch!

It's so much more complicated when you have kids. It takes years for other people to understand our reasons for doing what we do. Wish I could have been of some help...

 

It helps to know that I'm not the only one. Thanks Genie.

 

Is there any chance you could get your wife to join us in this discussion? How does she feel about being a single mother? How do you feel about another man raising your children using your money?

 

She claims that she won't under any circumstances marry another person for as long as she lives. I tend to believe her, although she could definitely change her tone when she feels lonely. As for myself, I am not interested in completely abandoning my children. I would probably share the child-rearing responsibility with her, as she does not ever wish to be a single mother. I am more concerned about my love life (and sex life) than the situation with my kids.

[sigh35 20]

:wtf3:I'm sorry:bricks:

[texmo 16]

:wtf3:I'm sorry:bricks:

 

Let me clarify. I didn't mean that my love life is more important than my kids. What I meant was that I am having trouble coping with my love life situation, and that my troubles have nothing to do with my kids. I love my kids.

[celtic239 297]

texmo - I can only give you the following advice. Life is NOT always about being content and happy. When people get married and have children you sacrifice many if not all of your"wants" in life. What I like about people that I have met in the lifestyle is that they are the most down to earth and honest people I have ever met. The lifestyle is about 'recreational' sex, not love nor committment. You may have friends in the lifestyle but that relationship will never be able to replace that between a father who is always home to help the kids with the homework or take the trash out for the spouse.

[texmo 16]

You may have friends in the lifestyle but that relationship will never be able to replace that between a father who is always home to help the kids with the homework or take the trash out for the spouse.

 

celtic, I am with you here. I understand what is at stake. I have thought about my situation and analyzed it from every angle. I have thought about the consequences of leaving my spouse and the impact it would have on my two children. My wife and I have had lots of recreational sex over the last 7 months, and it was never intended to replace the relationship between my wife and me. It's just that the lifestyle had some unintended consequences. It has awakened in me a desire for more.

 

I spoke with my wife tonight. She told me a lot of things that were painful for me to hear. She feels like her efforts to create a family life--supporting me when I was in school, ravaging her body by having two children, cooking, cleaning, ironing my shirts, etc., she feels like it was all a waste. She is regretting the life she has had with me. And who could blame her? I am not trying to make excuses for myself.. I am just being real. This is a shitty situation.

 

Anyway, I appreciate the responses that I have gotten so far on this thread. All great reminders and important things to consider.

[TheDeal 117]

I think first off; you need to take a moment and look inside and ask yourself if you are in love and really wanting to make things work. Have you already decided (in your heart) that you no longer wish to be with your wife? Are you longing to be free and feel nothing other than feelings for your kids? My point is, if you have made this choice in your heart; then no advice from anyone will change that. EVERYONE deserves to have the absolute BEST from there spouse or SO! I know I love my wife stronger than I ever thought I could. Everything I do is for her. She is my best friend. We all need and deserve that. Your wife does and so do you. If you are really still in love with her and the feelings are mutual, then you will find away to understand her, and she you.

 

I will say that open sex is pretty freaking scary to the person who doesn't not want that. I do believe it to be a relationship milestone. I also believe that when one wants to and the other does not, somebody obviously has to let go of what they want. That is a death nail or rather can be. People are people, and one thing that's hard to do is shut off your wants or dreams.

 

I did NOT want to do this when my wife suggested it. I was scared as shit! She said we did not have to do it and that she would let it go. I knew however, from that moment I would always feel I was holding her back. I made the choice to find a way to let go of my fears and go through this with her. It worked, for me. We are stronger and have a fantastic set of playmates. It ended up being a compromise as we are playing with our best friends, but we did find away through it. AND, I would never have done this if I had not loved my wife sooooo much.

 

ooops, sorry for the rant.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Texmo,

 

All things go through cycles, and it is the same with relationships. Thus the term, “The seven year itch.” I’m not a councilor or anything like that, I’m just a guy that has been there, done that, and made my fair share of mistakes.

 

Before you do anything rash, you need to take out your soul and look at it. And that takes time. And you need to talk extensively with your wife, which it sounds like you can do. You are lucky, I could not communicate with my ex-wife.

 

Your comment from your wife above is understandable, and very true! She did sacrifice a lot in becoming a wife and mother, both physically and emotionally. And her feelings may have more to do with your situation than you realize.

 

Right now you feel like a kid in a candy store. The swing lifestyle is exciting and you see all of these possibilities in front of you. But you need to keep in mind that the lifestyle is best enjoyed with a partner you love that you can share it with. Swinging as a single male sucks! So even if you decide to pursue this alone, trust me, it will not be what you envision.

 

Put all options back on the table and go back to your wife and talk. And talk again. And you have to listen to her. And I mean really listen to her, and if you don’t understand what she just said, ask her for more information.

 

And above all things, you have to understand that as much as she hates the changes to her body from bearing children, those changes are a badge of honor and make her the beautiful more mature woman that she is. If you truly see her in that light, she will feel better about herself and you just might find that you have the best of everything with a happy wife.

 

But believe me if you do all of the things I suggest, it will be hard. I know, we are going through a cycle ourselves. But anything worth having is worth working hard for.

[Tybee Swing 286]

We have now been swinging for about 7 months, and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought we would continue in the lifestyle indefinitely, but now my wife wants to quit.

 

I've read most of the threads on this board dealing with a spouse that wants to quit (usually the wife) and have read the advice given. I understand that swinging is a partnership, and that if one person in the partnership wants to quit, then that's the end of the discussion. Marriage means devoting yourself to your spouse.

 

The problem that I am facing is that I no longer embrace monogamous relationships like I did when I still maintained my religious faith. I now feel like I am a man of the world, and I want to experience everything that the world has to offer. I have realized that my wife does not wish to join me on such a journey. I want to experience a variety of women and get to know a variety of people. I don't think that I can be happy if I remain with my wife. I don't understand her. I am contemplating divorce.

 

What advice can you folks give me on this?

 

First of all, consider the fact that your lives have had a series of very dramatic changes in a relatively short period of time. You both went from very religious (with all of the extensive support & security of church community) to becoming parents, to turning 180 degrees and becoming swingers. You have ONLY been swinging for a few months - you're still a novice - and yet this new life experiment has become so important to you that you will leave your wife and kids over it. Slow down. Take a breath. THINK.

 

As a woman - if I were in your wife's shoes, I would have picked up intuitively that the swinging experiment/adventure was becoming more important to you than she was. Now that you are seeking divorce to pursue it, she knows that it's true. Swinging means more to you than a life with her, since you're willing to divorce her over this. Women are very intuitive creatures. If I sensed that swinging was becoming more important to my husband than I was, I'd pull back and would want to quit, too.

 

Since you can toss her aside so easily now over this, after she bore your children, supported you through school, etc....she knows that you are not (and probably never really were) the life partner and love of her life that she thought you were. The reason she says she won't marry again....she's completely heart-broken. She only wanted to marry one man, the love of her life, and devote herself to him. She wanted life partnership and wanted to raise your children together, as a family. You just took that dream away from her.

 

Swinging is a "hobby" that a couple enjoys together, not unlike any number of other hobbies a couple might pursue. How many couples lose each other over the pursuit of a hobby? It only happens when one is so obsessed with the hobby that it becomes the most important thing in his life. Put yourself in her shoes....how would YOU feel to be left behind over this?

 

Maybe this will help you to understand her.

[Darkblue 55]

 

I spoke with my wife tonight. She told me a lot of things that were painful for me to hear. She feels like her efforts to create a family life--supporting me when I was in school, ravaging her body by having two children, cooking, cleaning, ironing my shirts, etc., she feels like it was all a waste. She is regretting the life she has had with me. And who could blame her? I am not trying to make excuses for myself.. I am just being real. This is a shitty situation.

QUOTE]

 

To be honest after reading your post´s on this it looks very much like neither of you love each other and by your own admitence you got marriage for the wrong reasons, well if i were you two i would stop now and seperate before you both end up being bitter towards the other and then the kids will suffer..

Hope it all works out for you all

Steve

[ShellyM 0]

Texmo,

The first thing you have GOT to realize is this: The grass ALWAYS seems greener on the other side, and almost always turns brown when you get there. You have got to sit and remember what you will be giving up if you follow through with divorce. For a few one night stands you will be losing your wife and life as you know it. Of course you will not lose your children, you will always be their Father...but it will not be the same. Divorce is simply not something that you are to do without thinking and contemplating and thinking some more. I understand that you feel like you want to get out there and learn more about the world. However, your wife is not into this, and that is her right to feel this way. Swinging is NOT for everyone. What you have to ask yourself is if it is worth it. I cannot answer this question for you. I think you need marital counseling absolutely immediately. Yesterday immediately. The LAST thing you need is a lover. Best of luck to you in your endeavors.

[ShellyM 0]

ravaging her body by having two children

 

Dammit it pisses me off when I hear women say this. I have a friend who's ex wife told him that she will never forgive him for getting her pregnant (TWICE) because the c-sections "mutilated" her body.

Number 1, I think we all know HOW we make babies. If you don't know that sex makes babies you need to go to health class.

It just annoys me when women say this. Do not get pregnant if you don't want everything that having babies brings. Just my opinion, I'll get off my soapbox now.

[daisy girl 34]

You have opened up a new world of possibilities and trying to learn how to deal with this. Get counseling. Be open and honest. YOu both have to have your needs met.

[sexcupid 809]

Dammit it pisses me off when I hear women say this. I have a friend who's ex wife told him that she will never forgive him for getting her pregnant (TWICE) because the c-sections "mutilated" her body.

Number 1, I think we all know HOW we make babies. If you don't know that sex makes babies you need to go to health class.

It just annoys me when women say this. Do not get pregnant if you don't want everything that having babies brings. Just my opinion, I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

Shelly: In defense of the OP's wife...obviously she's not here to defend herself or tell us the exact wording that she used when airing HER list of grievances while talking to him. She may have been trying to make him understand that she too has made sacrifices during their relationship (among them bearing their children) and that maybe in light of the things that she has done or given up for him that he needs to be willing to do the same.

 

For my own experience, did having children 'ruin' my body? You pit what you gain against what you lose (or perceive to lose)...2 healthy, beautiful babies, bigger boobs...great! Strech marks, weight gain, etc. Eh, no so great. Would I ever tell my ex-husband that he ruined me because we had children? Or would I ever tell them that? Oh hell no...I knew what the potential consequences were when we had sex, so I hold no one else accountable except myself. The only problem I have is men who view women as damaged goods once they've had children...that is another rant.

 

Now to the OP:

 

I agree that the grass is always greener. And yes, as a matter of fact, your wife would be a single mother. Will she be the one with primary care tasks? Living with, cooking for, cleaning up, taking care of the children with no spouse or SO to assist. That is the definition of a single parent. And your wife may say that she will never marry again. Honey, those are famous last words. Once the pain and hurt have passed and she starts living life again...well, never say never. Besides if that were the case, no one would ever have more children after experiencing the pain of childbirth (epidural or no), you 'forget' how painful an experience truly was the longer time passes.

 

Would I say you are a selfish ass? Eh, probably. Have we all felt like we have missed opportunities and experiences in our lives? Most likely.

 

I agree with others, go to a counselor. Try to find a certified sex therapist that does couples therapy. They are more likely to at least be 'lifestyle friendly'....ie: not immediately jump to the conclusion that swinging is the primary problem in the relationship.

 

While it is an exciting time of discovery, and lots of fun....my SO puts it best, 'playing is just icing on the cake.' If you start viewing the icing as the cake...then that is a problem. I agree with Tybee, your wife may have suspected that the playtime was more important than her...but now she has her proof. Sometimes it really does help to try to see things from that person's point of view. How would you feel if you were on the receiving end?

 

Do you seriously not remember what is was like being a single guy? It's not like you will suddenly be awash with nubile women beating down your door and begging you for sex. As previously stated, swinging as a single guy has got to suck. Please see all the threads here about that topic.

 

Good luck, you totally need it.

 

Maria:kissface:

[jojodom 15]

People change, just don't run off without exploring your options first.

 

My wife left me after being together for 4 years, she suddenly discovered that she was a lesbian. I to married for wrong reasons and know how life can twist and turn. I am a single father now and have no regrets.

 

You married young and naive also. A lot has changed so don't change again till it has all settled in.

 

If logically look at it all and lay all your cards on the table and decide that this is the rite choice to leave, I am behind you 100 PERCENT. If all you and your wife will do is be miserable then you kids are going to be miserable.

 

Profesional studies show that kids are better off with seperated parents that get along that parents that live together and hate each other.

 

Cheers

 

Jo

[texmo 16]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful words.

 

I want to be clear that I do not have any illusions of getting more sex by being a single male. I understand clearly what I would be giving up by leaving my wife.

 

This isn't about sex. It's about happiness. I don't know if I love my wife the way that I should.

 

I appreciate the suggestions that I go see a counselor. At this point, I am not interested in couples counseling. I think I need to see someone by myself so I can first digest why I am feeling the way I do.

[TheDeal 117]

I think I need to see someone by myself so I can first digest why I am feeling the way I do.

 

I think that's a great idea. I am all about including your wife, but you need to know what you feel and to understand that before you throw out too many possibilities to her.

 

Keep her in the know, just not dragging behind you.

[sexcupid 809]

I appreciate the suggestions that I go see a counselor. At this point, I am not interested in couples counseling. I think I need to see someone by myself so I can first digest why I am feeling the way I do.

 

Regardless of whether it is a single or couples session, I would still look for a certified sex therapist for the reason I mentioned previously.

 

It would probably do you and your wife good to have a few sessions (separately as well as together, sometimes it helps to have a mediator so 'discussions' don't escalate).

 

You mention happiness...were you happy with your wife, relationship, life BEFORE you started swinging? Do try not to let your current state of 'unhappiness' cloud the answer to that question.

[intuition897 2,179]

The only thing we can be sure of in this life is confusion. Well that, death and taxes. Mr. intuition and I got married young, him 24 and me 20. It was one of them there "shotgun" weddings. Yeah, I had a bun in the oven, so we had to hurry up before I couldn't fit into a pretty dress. We spent a goodly number of years not really knowing one another, not knowing how to communicate and what's more, being afraid to communicate. We became resentful of one another and wondered if the pregnancy was the only reason we got married in the first place. Oh, did I mention I came from a devout Christian upbringing? Anyway, we wasted a lot of one another's time and our own. We were on the verge of divorce and to be honest, I just didn't care anymore. I was just tired of being lonely and so was he. After a big blow-up, we decided that,yes, we actually did still want to be with one another. So we totally re-vamped our marriage to be exactly what we wanted it to be. My religious beliefs also got a refreshing overhaul and I finally have peace. My faith no longer detracts from my life, but enhances it.

 

I know you have strong feelings about religiosity (as do I) but that's not really the point here. I guess I'm just saying that what you might deem an irreparable failure of a marriage may actually be something worth saving. Don't give up too quickly on a thing just because it is convenient to do so, or because your emotions are telling you to at the time. Sometimes we need to give our emotions a "time-out" so that we can think things through thoroughly and strive to see the bigger picture.

 

If you ask me, it just sounds like two people who are striving to find happiness, and they're disappointed with how life hasn't lived up to their expectations. And now they're looking everywhere but at one another to "get happy". I found happiness when I looked beside me and saw another miserable human being standing there. It sparked a deep desire to nurture and comfort him. To protect him and help him. I guess that's called love. I just want that sadness to go away and for him to be happy. If you can do this with your own wife, and you have a desire to know her better, don't walk away without expressing this to her. If you see her misery and unhappiness - see her like the child she was many years ago - and still have no desire to be with her, it's only fair to be honest with her.

[texmo 16]

You mention happiness...were you happy with your wife, relationship, life BEFORE you started swinging? Do try not to let your current state of 'unhappiness' cloud the answer to that question.

 

A fair question. We've had both happy and unhappy times. The swinging contributed to our current situation, but it was already there before. As I mentioned earlier, I married her for the wrong reasons. Now I'm trying to figure out whether that even matters.

 

I found happiness when I looked beside me and saw another miserable human being standing there. It sparked a deep desire to nurture and comfort him. To protect him and help him. I guess that's called love.

 

This is an important observation, I think. I've certainly felt deep and overwhelming compassion for her at times. I love her in that sense. I don't feel any romantic love for her, and having felt it before with other women from my past, I know how romantic love feels. As I said above, I'm trying to figure out if any of this matters. I suspect that it does.

[sexcupid 809]

A fair question. We've had both happy and unhappy times. The swinging contributed to our current situation, but it was already there before. As I mentioned earlier, I married her for the wrong reasons. Now I'm trying to figure out whether that even matters.

 

 

 

This is an important observation, I think. I've certainly felt deep and overwhelming compassion for her at times. I love her in that sense. I don't feel any romantic love for her, and having felt it before with other women from my past, I know how romantic love feels. As I said above, I'm trying to figure out if any of this matters. I suspect that it does.

 

The notion of 'romantic' love is a relatively new fangled convention in the human species (say since the middle ages or so). And the fizz of new love wears off after usually about 18 months-2 years (scientifically speaking just about long enough to shag like bunnies and make a baby)....that is we may be so clouded by happiness/hormones, that we are less critical of our partners during that time.

 

All couples have happy and unhappy times, that is 'normal' so to speak...so if you are looking for a neverending cycle of bliss, then you will never be happy in a long term relationship.

 

I am one of those people that got married for the 'wrong' reasons...we went to the JP and got hitched because he didn't want me having the baby and not be married. I, having a hormone addled brain at that time, thought that'll be great! And for the rest of the marriage I was left wondering if that was the only reason he ever wanted to get married. I was 20, he was 28.

 

Now, you seem to have gotten married just to be able to have sex? This may be a little too personal...but did you have any experience before? Not intercourse, but there are lots of things to experiment with and get experience without penetration. Some of the most experienced people I knew in high school and college were 'technically virgins' because they hadn't had intercourse, because the their religion/upbringing told them that intercourse was for after marriage.

[onecrazydiamond 15]

Maybe I can shed some light on how your wife probably feels. I see you have a couple of small children. Right now they are probably at the stage where they are just taking everything out of her and swinging right now is just one more "JOB" that is layed on her plate. My husband and I have been down that road. We're together 15 years and we reached a point where all it seemed that my husband wanted was to be selfish. I did everything around the house, I took care of the kids, I went to work. He basically just slept, went out the door to go to work, ate and repeated everything the next day. So the sex thing to me became just another "JOB" that I was "stuck " doing everyday. And no I am not some frigid, stiff bitch. I was a swinger from age 19 on. (I'm 43) I absolutely love good nasty sex everyway you can imagine. But when selfishness rears it's ugly head in one partner, you can bet the other partner is gonna retaliate in the one area that they know they can hit the other partner the most, ussually sex. My advise to you is get back to your roots. Focus on your family and forget being selfish, make a personal sacrifice for one year, make your kids and wife your #1 priority and you will see a major turnaround in both your life and hers and your kids. If after one year you don't see a change and you truely want more. Get a divorce, that way you won't hurt anyone. I hope you all work it out, if not at least you tried.

[sweet_tna 680]

My advice, in a word? Counseling.

 

In several words? You both (as individuals) have some serious stuff to work through before you can figure out what's best for you as a couple. In the meantime, you have those kids to consider. Best of luck to you both.

 

~Mrs. Sweet

[msa223 91]

Texmo,

 

I will add my two cents for what it is worth. 1) I think if you didn't have kids, this situation would be much simpler. If you truly know in your heart that you married the wrong person, it wouldn't be that much of an issue to separate. 2) Kids are a big complicating factor. I personally think it is just that much worse for your kids to grow up with divorced parents than with two parents at home. Obviously, if the parents at home are truly miserable, that isn't great for the kids either.

 

Enough of the general stuff. I know the general consensus around here is that if your spouse isn't interested, than there is no more discussion. I personally disagree with that. It is very important to you to live a more adventurous life including swinging. I think it is reasonable for your wife to compromise somewhat to your desires. Marriage should be a two way street and I assume she has a vested interest in trying to make your marriage work as well. As you already stated, you don't want her to "take one for the team" but maybe there are some other things you both can agree to do that might make you happier that she would be comfortable doing. I'm not just talking about swinging and sex. Travel is always fun. What other "life passing you by" activities are you interested in doing? As to the swinging, perhaps you can go to a club and enjoy the atmosphere and relationships without your wife feeling that she is "taking one for the team." How about a vacation to Hedo or Desires?

 

I personally don't think that you can be expected to totally bury your desires for the sake of your marriage and kids. That is just a formula for unhappiness. On the other hand, it may work out if your wife is willing to compromise somewhat that you can satisfy your desires 80% and your wife will still be happy.

 

Personally, if I knew something would make my wife happy, I am always willing to give it a try. Being together is always pretty good no matter what the venue. For example, I had a girlfriend who loved the opera. Not my particular cup of tea but I went with her. In the context of a night out with my girlfriend, it wasn't so terrible.

 

Talk to your wife and tell her your feelings. Ask her if she would be willing to make some compromises to satisfy your "mid-life crises" needs and assure her you won't make her do anything she is totally uncomfortable doing.

 

As far as the "grass is always greener", I guarantee you, you won't find another person who wants exactly everything that you want. If you find someone who wants to make you happy and who you want to make happy and you are willing to get 80% of the way there, I think you will be lucky.

[cubnamy1995 124]

Hey guys! I saw the thread and couldn't help getting in the middle of it. For the record, this is the amy of cubnamy. Most women typically go for the jugular and pounce on "selfish". Not me.

Look, it seems to me that you didn't come here seeking advice, you came for validation or someone to guilt you into do the exact opposite of what your heart has already said. You, yourself, said you can honestly not see ever being happy with your wife. Yeah, it sucks, but that doesn't make it the wrong thing to feel. Every person changes, and sometimes, you don't change in the same way as your partner. You got married young to have sex. Did you even see yourself happy with her then? I'm not saying you didn't try or that you don't care. It's obvious you do or this would not be a hard decision for you at all. But, the fact remains you are not happy.

People can say sacrifice all they want to make it work, but I feel true sacrifice of one's own heart is simply too high a price to pay. If you have truly looked into your heart and realize this woman is not the woman you live your life for and most importantly with, then staying will not be of value to anyone, especially the kids.

In the words of that "Dr. Something" we all love to hate, kids would much rather be from a broken home that be in one. Do you or your wife want your children to grow up and think this is the way marriage is supposed to be? Or, do you want them to love and be loved more than anything else in the world? Let's be honest, they would be much better at handling life with parents who's connection was solely to raise their children well, even from different addresses that children whose parents spend 90% of their time pretending to love each other and the other 10% bitching because they don't. (90+10=100% meaning no time for kiddies at all).

The fact remains, no matter what you decide, you need to put your children first. IF you sit down with the wife, discuss everything. Go over every scenario and decide between the two of you want kind of family you want, whether it be together til death do you part or in different houses as allies in raising the best children possible. And let's be honest, this isn't really about swinging at all. Sex is never enough to cause this kind of turmoil in your soul. You are really wanting more to life in every aspect than you are getting now. Maybe your wife can help obtain that with you. Maybe she doesn't even want too. You have to talk to her and see where you both stand. You owe it to yourself, and yes, to her. For her "sacrifices" of being a mom, she at least deserves to be treated with respect and not left being the one you settled for because you felt guilty.

[ShellyM 0]

I think it is reasonable for your wife to compromise somewhat to your desires. Marriage should be a two way street and I assume she has a vested interest in trying to make your marriage work as well. As you already stated, you don't want her to "take one for the team" but maybe there are some other things you both can agree to do that might make you happier that she would be comfortable doing.

 

I personally don't think that you can be expected to totally bury your desires for the sake of your marriage and kids. That is just a formula for unhappiness. On the other hand, it may work out if your wife is willing to compromise somewhat that you can satisfy your desires 80% and your wife will still be happy.

 

You know, this is interesting. I cannot remember if it was on here or on sls, but there was a thread where we discussed this. I argued back and forth on this issue in regards to does one partner have the right to cut sex off from their partner even when they know the other partner has needs. No, I personally do NOT think they do. Now. It does sound though like this wife is not being manipulative or spiteful. I DO know some spouses that use sex as a bartering tool...buy me this and you'll get some, piss me off and you won't. That is W R O N G. I read the original post and it sounds like this poor lady is suffering from possible post partum issues, possibly her menstrual cycle and hormones are giving her hell after "re-setting" themself after having been pregnant (mine went insane after I weaned my 5 year old), or just plain she is exhausted and drained from having a baby and a young child. Trust ME, its rough. You get through the day and it can be annoying to have a horny husband rubbing against you....you think "want to help me? Wash clothes or make dinner!" So yes, I agree that one partner never has the right to meticulously cut off sex. But I think if he can find out what is going on that will do wonders. Even just going to dinner, just the 2 of them. JMO.

[texmo 16]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. This thread has definitely helped me process what is going on in my life.

 

We have stopped swinging for now, and I suppose that's how it's going to be for some time. I understand the "grass is always greener" argument, but I see little value in it because it assumes that I am being naive about the possibilities that exist outside of my current life. I know that there is more out there than what I have. I am an unhappy man because my needs are not being met.

 

Am I being selfish? Perhaps, but I think selfishness can be a virtue under the appropriate circumstances. Did I get married to have sex? That was only part of it. There was a religious aspect to it. Those of you that have never been indoctrinated into an ultraconservative religious mindset can't really understand this. Although this is in the past now, it's still important for me to understand how I got to this point in my life.

 

I'm not sure if this thread even belongs on a swinger board, because there is so much more to my story than the swinging. But you folks have been very helpful and, once again, I appreciate the comments.

[Tybee Swing 286]

I know that there is more out there than what I have. I am an unhappy man because my needs are not being met.

 

Texmo, I'm just very curious - what are the needs that are not being met? Swinging aside, that is.

 

Those of you that have never been indoctrinated into an ultraconservative religious mindset can't really understand this.

 

You would be surprised how many of us on this board understand all too well.

[Alura 2,775]

Texmo wrote:

 

I know that there is more out there than what I have.

 

There can also be less, Texmo. Here's the wisdom of Kris Kristofferson:

 

"Sunday Morning Coming Down"

words and music by Kris Kristofferson

 

Well I woke up Sunday morning,

With no way to hold my head that didn't hurt.

And the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad,

So I had one more for dessert.

Then I fumbled through my closet for my clothes,

And found my cleanest dirty shirt.

An' I shaved my face and combed my hair,

An' stumbled down the stairs to meet the day.

 

I'd smoked my brain the night before,

On cigarettes and songs I'd been pickin'.

But I lit my first and watched a small kid,

Cussin' at a can that he was kicking.

Then I crossed the empty street,

'n caught the Sunday smell of someone fryin' chicken.

And it took me back to somethin',

That I'd lost somehow, somewhere along the way.

 

On the Sunday morning sidewalk,

Wishing, Lord, that I was stoned.

'Cos there's something in a Sunday,

Makes a body feel alone.

And there's nothin' short of dyin',

Half as lonesome as the sound,

On the sleepin' city sidewalks:

Sunday mornin' comin' down.

 

In the park I saw a daddy,

With a laughin' little girl who he was swingin'.

And I stopped beside a Sunday school,

And listened to the song they were singin'.

Then I headed back for home,

And somewhere far away a lonely bell was ringin'.

And it echoed through the canyons,

Like the disappearing dreams of yesterday.

 

On the Sunday morning sidewalk,

Wishing, Lord, that I was stoned.

'Cos there's something in a Sunday,

Makes a body feel alone.

And there's nothin' short of dyin',

Half as lonesome as the sound,

On the sleepin' city sidewalks:

Sunday mornin' comin' down.

[texmo 16]

Texmo, I'm just very curious - what are the needs that are not being met? Swinging aside, that is.

 

There are physical, intellectual, and emotional needs that she cannot provide for me. We were both aware of this incompatibility before I asked for her hand in marriage. In fact, we had a discussion about it the same week we got engaged. For reasons that are no longer relevant or important to either of us now, I bit the bullet and asked her to marry me anyway. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time. It was a mistake. Neither of us could have predicted this.

 

Our relationship was better than ever when we started swinging. It has soured recently, mostly because of me.

[l_amante1 15]

Swinger sex is an activity not a purpose.

Spoken like someone who is happily and securely in the lifestyle. Swinger sex is part of a lifestyle and lifestyles are how we choose to express who we are inside. Unfortunately, not everyone gets to live the lifestyle that represents who they truly are. Just look at politicians for the most visible example of this.

 

Let me tell you my experience and you take from it what you will.

 

We've been married for 24 years. I have always been attracted to other women and they to me. I've always wanted to enter the lifestyle, however I knew my wife wasn't ready as she comes from a foreign culture where women marry and stay monogamous with their husband while tolerating him playing around. The idea we could both play was unimaginable and I think she really hoped I wouldn't cheat either. I didn't, despite the opportunities and extreme temptation.

 

But time changes everyone somewhat and I recently tried to get my wife interested in the lifestyle. We met another couple, we went to a couple of parties, all after talking about it for a few months. She gave me the impression she was going to be open minded about it, even bought several sexy dresses to wear to the parties. Then when we got there, she clams up and starts referring to the other people there in unflattering terms. I was embarrassed and annoyed. We came very close to calling it quits.

 

We had some more serious conversation. Here is what I learned. My wife is less and less enthusiastic about sex in general. Near as I can recall, she never initiated sex. For her sex is something a woman does for her man and not for herself and only when "in love". To her sex is always tied to feelings of love, very private and usually quiet. Does she enjoy sex, oh yeah. But with a teenager in the house it's very sedate because she worries about being heard. When we're home alone she cums hard & audibly and until about 10 years ago, often.

 

The change in her ability to reach orgasm is another thing that lead me to think she might find the lifestyle enjoyable. It takes a lot of energy on my part to make her cum now. More than I can sustain every time we have sex. I thought having the opportunity to play with other men would provide her with a more stimulating experience. But the very thought of other men desiring sex with her seems to make her retch. I swear she got so upset talking about it with me one night she almost barfed then and there. I just don't understand that at all.

 

Over the 24 years we've been together she has always known I appreciate the sight of a beautiful woman and do so with desire. And yet seeing me openly desire another woman in a setting where I may actually have the chance to act on that desire makes her feel that I will stop loving her and hook up with this other woman. As I said, to her sex=love. I grew up in a climate where sex was simply for fun. While "making love" involves sex, sex doesn't necessary involve love. She would rather I cheat behind her back like her father, uncles, and sisters husbands then see me be open about my desires. She refuses to believe my feelings for her can remain unchanged if I play with another. Actually I'm a bit offended by this because it implies my emotions are dictated by my dick.

 

As for the thought of separating, the problem here is we have to many things tying us together. Family, property, limited financial resources to support separate lives, and as I mentioned, 24 years together. Also, I'm still very much "in love" with her. I can't imagine being apart form her nor do I desire to. Yet staying together means continuing to suppress who I am. My wife wants to wait a few more years till our kid graduates high school before we seriously talk about divorce. I don't want to break up our family either.

 

Also I don't want to look for a new relationship at that point of my life. I don't know how old you are, but I've turned that corner toward the home stretch, it's way in the distance, maybe 20+ years left, but I see the tape. I simply don't want to finish the race leaving so many things undone. I accept I will not do many of the things I've desired, but some things are still within my abilities for some time yet. I look way younger than I am and can still attract and satisfy desirable women even if certain sexual positions are no longer possible for me to achieve. In time that will end too.

 

She may be happy being home all the time doing nothing, I need a life, one where I don't have to hide my true nature. I've tried to involve her in many different things. The lifestyle is only the latest and I waited until I exhausted all other interests I am still capable of enjoying with her. She just doesn't want to do anything I want to do. She says "go out, do what you want." She even threw in "just don't bring any women home with you."

 

So here I sit, writing about a choice I am unprepared to make while seeing parties go on and others enjoying life. What to do? My gut says listen to my wife and get a girlfriend to party with, but my brain, and my fathers bitter divorce, says "don't do it, she'll only use it to screw you in court". What does my heart say? Two things. First that she will not screw me in court because she is sincere about letting me have a playmate, and second, that my life is still better than that of 2/3 the population of the planet who struggle in squalor just to survive so I should stop being such a spoiled shit. But I'm dying a little bit everyday that I am not being myself. How wonderful it would be to step in front of a speeding bus right now.

 

Like I said, take from this what you will. Good luck in your search for answers. But I doubt you'll find them here. They will only be found inside yourself. Meanwhile, anyone have a bus schedule?

[Vjklander 138]

It is hard for me to relate because we fell in love at first sight and have been together ever since, despite the best efforts of family and the United States government to break us up. Swinging, like just about everything else, is secondary to our relationship. If I had to choose between her and sex, sex would go. Obviously, we don't know a fraction of the full story, but, from my perspective, I can suggest that maybe you could do other non-sexual 'new things' that would satisfy your need for speed as it were, without her being threatened. Sky-diving is a heck of a rush. Almost as good as sex. Scuba diving, roller coasters. etc. I know my learning some BDSM techniques to use on my wife were extremely erotic and satisfying for both of us. Sex is sex, and I honestly have never had better sex than sex with my wife. Then again, she is about as adventurous as I am ...

[texmo 16]

Like I said, take from this what you will. Good luck in your search for answers. But I doubt you'll find them here. They will only be found inside yourself.

 

 

l_amante1, this was probably the most helpful response for me on this thread. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective.

 

I am 31 years old and have two small children under the age of 5. I definitely am going through this personal crisis at an earlier age than the stereotype, but I have several friends my age who are going through similar things. I suspect that we will be getting a divorce relatively soon. Mostly because we're still young, and don't feel like we're in the "home stretch" like you do.

 

Nevertheless, your words were authentic and I appreciate your ability to put your wife's needs ahead of your own for so many years.

[SamuiCouple 70]

I would never recommend putting another's needs ahead of your own totally, for the long term. It will never work. Eventually it will catch up with you. You have one life, your needs need to be met as well. Well, most of them.

 

I have been through pretty much the same situation as you. I do not regret the road I followed, even though it cost others and myself quite a high price. I did what I had to do in order to have a life as opposed to an existence, which I believe is everyone's right.

 

I did whatever I could, putting in a lot of effort, to try and mitigate the hurt I was causing to my family as far as possible, without giving up my right to a life.

 

I cannot recommend anything. Only you can figure out what is right for you. All I can offer is my best wishes, it is a tough road you face, either way.

[Tybee Swing 286]

But time changes everyone somewhat and I recently tried to get my wife interested in the lifestyle. We met another couple, we went to a couple of parties, all after talking about it for a few months. She gave me the impression she was going to be open minded about it, even bought several sexy dresses to wear to the parties. Then when we got there, she clams up and starts referring to the other people there in unflattering terms. I was embarrassed and annoyed. We came very close to calling it quits.

 

Your wife did much more than most would in her shoes. She tried. She did that for your sake, you know - she is not interested in swinging for herself. Rather than valuing the fact that she stepped far out of her comfort zone to get the slut clothes and try going to the swinger parties, you were ready to "call it quits" with your wife just because she was uncomfortable at her first sex party.

 

I swing (I'm the one who suggested it), but if my husband was as wound up about swinging as you are, and if my husband put swinging above me, I would not swing.

 

You feel caged in, and you want to be free to be yourself. However, do you let your wife be herself? You kept referring to the different culture that she comes from, the different values. She is who she is. You don't respect her - you want her to turn into somebody else and reinvent herself, "or else". Nobody has the right to pressure someone else into being who they are not.

[l_amante1 15]

Your wife did much more than most would in her shoes. She tried. She did that for your sake, you know - she is not interested in swinging for herself. Rather than valuing the fact that she stepped far out of her comfort zone to get the slut clothes and try going to the swinger parties, you were ready to "call it quits" with your wife just because she was uncomfortable at her first sex party.

 

I swing (I'm the one who suggested it), but if my husband was as wound up about swinging as you are, and if my husband put swinging above me, I would not swing.

 

You feel caged in, and you want to be free to be yourself. However, do you let your wife be herself? You kept referring to the different culture that she comes from, the different values. She is who she is. You don't respect her - you want her to turn into somebody else and reinvent herself, "or else". Nobody has the right to pressure someone else into being who they are not.

 

Many messages can be pulled apart and dissected for meaning. I am sure in one as long as the one I wrote there are many such places for this. However, sometimes you have to look at the whole to get the full context and meaning of what is being said. Tybee, you may want to read my original in it's entirety and re-evaluate what you see in it.

 

In response to your comments, I did not try to make my wife turn into someone she isn't, I asked her to look at expanding her horizons and experience with something she had not given any real thought to. Remember I said we talked about this for months prior to doing anything. Also remember I said I tried to expose her to many other things before we looked at this. None of which involved sex.

 

You seem to think I was the one to initiate the idea of "calling it quits". Actually she has been the one to bring up the "D" word in every instance. I finally agreed to think about such a thing as a result of seeing her raise my hopes by saying maybe next time on three occasions only to watch her become a total ass about it. Had she simply said she just can't see herself in this lifestyle; without the dramatics and very insulting comments about it; I would have just as quietly accepted it. It was her vehement display of total disrespect for an entire group of people and their lifestyle that was so ugly as to make me sick which lead to my consideration of divorce.

 

The last thing I'll respond to is your comment that I do not respect my wife. You are wrong! I did not force or pressure her to do anything she wasn't ready to do. I made it clear from the beginning and continuously throughout the experience that her feelings and happiness were paramount. If I had no respect for my wife, I would have simply played with every woman who showed interest in me at the parties and thought "the hell with her, if she doesn't want to play she could just sit there", I didn't. I stayed with her and played with no one waiting for her to either embrace the lifestyle, or at the least give it a full trial. Yes she tried, somewhat. She bought the dresses and went to the parties. I really appreciate that. For over 24 years I've demonstrated my love and respect for this woman. How dare you imply otherwise! But I wonder, if tomorrow your husband really did say he was done with the lifestyle, would you really give it up too? Talk is cheap, I know.

 

To everyone else, I simply posted my experience and perspective in the hope it may provide some benefit to another member. I did not intend to become the topic myself. This is Texmo's thread, lets keep that in mind and respond to him, not trash each others comments.

[Tybee Swing 286]

I'll answer you briefly:

 

I stayed with her and played with no one waiting for her to either embrace the lifestyle, or at the least give it a full trial. Yes she tried, somewhat. She bought the dresses and went to the parties.

 

Your choices are very limiting - (a) embrace swinging or (b) do it as a trial. What if a person knows in her heart that she does not want to swing? Most people know that they do not want this lifestyle (or hobby, whichever). They don't have to go all the way through with it as a trial to know this. In my opinion, your very limited two choices don't allow for her to "just say no". To not take a person at their word, trusting that they know themselves, is in my opinion disrespectful.

 

If I became very uncomfortable at a swing party and shared this with my husband, he'd respect me by guiding me to the nearest exit - he wouldn't get irritated with me or disappointed in me. In fact, we have exited a swing party or two under these circumstances. We always have each other's backs.

 

But I wonder, if tomorrow your husband really did say he was done with the lifestyle, would you really give it up too?

 

If he had said no before we did it the first time, I'd have been fine with that. If he wanted to stop now, about 2.5 years into our being swingers, I'd support that 100% and say goodbye to swinging forever. If I wanted or needed to stop, he would do the same for me. Why? Because our relationship is #1, no matter what. Swinging is just an activity to enhance our sexuality together, as a couple. It's not about all the other women in the world he can fuck. It's not about all the other men out there that I can fuck. It's about us.

 

The reason I'm very sure that we will both respect and honor our own relationship above swinging or not, is because this was the deal we made before we started. As we discussed everything, we agreed that regardless of the reason, if either of us was uncomfortable with any particular situation, environment, partners, or even with swinging as a whole, we would both exit the situation (or quit) with no questioning/nagging/cajoling, or regrets. Being in it for a bit of time now, we still feel exactly the same way about this as we did before we started.

 

I hope this clarifies our stance on swinging, and what it means (or what little it means) to us. There are many other couples in swinging who feel about this just as we do: our relationship #1 always, swinging very secondary.

[l_amante1 15]

This is my last post. Some people just don't understand how to be nice and supportive. They just have to show how wonderful they are and what a douche someone else is. I'll apologize now, I'm going to be harsh here.

 

I'll answer you briefly:

Your choices are very limiting - (a) embrace swinging or (b) do it as a trial.

What? Limiting? What the hell else is there? Try it or don't try it. Like or don't like it. She said she'd try. But simply going through the motions isn't really trying now is it? But for sake of argument (something you appear to love) we'll say she did try. She didn't like it. Now we don't go out. So just what the hell are you talking about? I will not repeat a third time what it was that got me upset as you simply appear to be incapable of understanding plain English.

 

 

The reason I'm very sure that we will both respect and honor our own relationship above swinging or not, is because this was the deal we made before we started. As we discussed everything, we agreed that regardless of the reason, if either of us was uncomfortable with any particular situation, environment, partners, or even with swinging as a whole, we would both exit the situation

Gee I wish I'd have thought of that. Wow you must be some kind of emotional genius or something! Such a thing would have never occurred to me. You guys actually talked about this before trying it? How incredibly stupid I must be. All I had to do was talk about it and we could have saved ourselves the trouble of actually meeting people and going out. What an insensitive jackass I must be. Oh, wait a minute, we did talk! But I guess I should have known my wife was going to lie to me time after time after time about wanting to really try swinging. Thank GOD I have you to set me straight!!!

 

There are many other couples in swinging who feel about this just as we do: our relationship #1 always, swinging very secondary.

Oh I see. You guys are perfect. Yet this is what I hear you saying, "We're in the club and you're not, nah nah na nah nah." Your worse than some kind of Holier Than Thou, Born Again Evangelical. How many years are you together? When you pass 24 come see me about how wonderful every little thing is. In the meantime don't preach to me, your not qualified.

[ShellyM 0]

Your wife did much more than most would in her shoes. She tried. She did that for your sake, you know - she is not interested in swinging for herself. Rather than valuing the fact that she stepped far out of her comfort zone to get the slut clothes and try going to the swinger parties, you were ready to "call it quits" with your wife just because she was uncomfortable at her first sex party.

 

I swing (I'm the one who suggested it), but if my husband was as wound up about swinging as you are, and if my husband put swinging above me, I would not swing.

 

You feel caged in, and you want to be free to be yourself. However, do you let your wife be herself? You kept referring to the different culture that she comes from, the different values. She is who she is. You don't respect her - you want her to turn into somebody else and reinvent herself, "or else". Nobody has the right to pressure someone else into being who they are not.

 

I absolutely agree. And we aren't 24 yet, are we? I'm holding at 22.

Don't worry T, I think your a genius.

[Alura 2,775]

We've been together 27 years, married 25, and we think L_amante1 is wrong.

 

Our marriage is more important to us than swinging will ever be. The idea of getting a divorce because one can't swing is ludicrous. The sad part is that, once divorced, swinging is even less likely. So is regular sex, unless one is willing to lower his expectations or has a lot of money.

 

Mr. Alura

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

What does my heart say? Two things. First that she will not screw me in court because she is sincere about letting me have a playmate, and second, that my life is still better than that of 2/3 the population of the planet who struggle in squalor just to survive so I should stop being such a spoiled shit. But I'm dying a little bit everyday that I am not being myself. How wonderful it would be to step in front of a speeding bus right now.

 

 

Listen to your heart and your wife. We are not our fathers or our mothers. And we can't always have exactly what we want but when we love each other most of the time we are willing to let the other have what they need or even feel they need.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Many messages can be pulled apart and dissected for meaning. I am sure in one as long as the one I wrote there are many such places for this. However, sometimes you have to look at the whole to get the full context and meaning of what is being said. Tybee, you may want to read my original in it's entirety and re-evaluate what you see in it.

 

In response to your comments, I did not try to make my wife turn into someone she isn't, I asked her to look at expanding her horizons and experience with something she had not given any real thought to. Remember I said we talked about this for months prior to doing anything. Also remember I said I tried to expose her to many other things before we looked at this. None of which involved sex.

 

 

I think that perhaps you misread Tybee. I don't think she said or implied that you tried or made your wife try to be someone she was not for you. What she said is that your wife did try to make herself be someone she was not for you. Often this is what people do for people that they love they TRY new things or TRY to be people or things that they are not in order to make someone else happy. Sometimes it works and they discover that they were not who they thought themselves to be, discovering new ways to live and new things to enjoy. Sometimes (as in your wife's case) it does not work and they only discover that they were trying to be something they could not be.

 

What Tybee said is very true. You do have very limited choices. You can either stick out and not be happy yourself because you are TRYING to be someone you are not for her. Or you can leave and go be who you are for yourself.

 

As someone else said, putting someone else's needs ahead of your own completely only works for a short time. In the end if you are not happy who you are or who you are trying to be then that destroys everything.