Over Reaction???

[sndman 15]

I like to cut to the chase so my question to the board is: Am I over reacting?

 

Please read below to understand why I’m asking the question and if I’m being an ass then lets call it that way…  Wouldn’t be the first time…

 

My wife and I discussed swinging for a couple of years, more fantasy than anything but actually started swinging about a year ago. The couple we swing with have been close friends for about two years.

 

Anyways, we started out slow with soft-swapping but moved quickly to hard. During the first few nights I found myself jealous and called a stop the swapping friendship. As a group we discussed what was going on and I and the other husband also met to discuss. What was bugging me was his continuous lusting after my wife. Even during general social situations. All things being new he didn’t realize it was that obvious and said he would keep it in check. My wife and I also discussed the situation and agreed to some ground rules. Mainly that nothing happens with out discussing it first and it would be agreed to by both couples.

 

This summer we went on vacation, we both have boys the same age, and had a good time. Once the kids were down in the other adjoining room the adults were able to play. During the vacation I noticed how often the guy was not walking with his wife and son but always between me and my family. I discussed it with my wife one night and she thought I was just getting jealous again. Maybe, but I asked her to just be observant over the next couple of days and she doesn’t see let me know. After the first day she noticed and it was not just me being jealous.

 

This past Halloween things went south. We were enjoying the evening dancing and having a few drinks, as I said they are close friends and we have the same circle of friends. So, I’m chatting with another couple and my wife excuses herself for a bio-break. No problem. I then notice the other guy head downstairs. After a few moments, 5 minutes or so, jealousy starts to kick in. I head downstairs and my concerns are realized. I head around the corner and see them in an embrace and kissing. So I’m a little pissed at this point. So my thoughts are what have they been doing and what would they have done?

 

So yes, I was jealous for the fact my wife didn’t want to sneak downstairs with me when I asked her earlier but also I feel they both let me down. When we first started swinging I became jealous and I talked to both of them and they both assured me I had nothing to worry about. It’s not the kissing that pissed me off but its that I had a suspicion that I could not trust my wife and friend.

 

Needless to say we are ending the swapping friendship. It took me a couple of days to talk to my wife about how I was feeling and she is apologetic. I’m having beers with my friend when they return from vacation. I believe the overall friendship will survive. Now the other wife believes I over reacted and I’ve blown the situation out of proportion. Now you know why I’ve asked the question: Am I over reacting?

[Spoomonkey 421]

sndman said:

Am I over reacting?

 

Nope...

 

I actually think you may be under-reacting.

 

For us, marriage is first and there is nothing worth jeopardizing what we have together. So, honestly, I'd end the friendship period. And then I would work on rebuilding the trust factor with your wife.

 

As is always the case with these stories, we are only getting a part of the story - but based on what you have written, I'd be damned if I'd trust him with my wife again - or my wife with him again for that matter. I doubt, if he and she are willing to sneak around and suck face in the basement at a Halloween party, that they are really going to go "straight" just because you put the kibosh on "sanctioned" play time...

[Lovethenights 35]

You're not over-reacting. His refusal to honor your stated boundaries indicates he's not a good lifestyle play partner for you and your wife. Furthermore, your wife's role in this situation needs opened up, as she's either being a passive helpless pawn to this man's attentions (truly pitiful) or she's complicitous and enjoys his attentions and sexual ministrations. How much fun you're having with his wife may enter into the picture, but not without the continuation of any relationship with the couple posing a threat to your marriage.

[Reef99 30]

I agree with all of the above. Sorry you had to go through this.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

I'm going to have to agree totally with spoomonkey. we have learned though that sometimes other couples are just different than us. dosent make them wrong or us wright just different. we were involved with a couple that to be honest, the husband placed Mrs.fun above his own wife.and yes had some ways of over stepping our boundaries.actually Mrs fun saw it first and i was being a little naive i guess.as it turned out they were not to happy with each other and used each other to find better sex than they were having at home. they were honest with each other to a point. but we felt used in a way. as for the kissing while you were not around Mrs.fun has had that happen and felt pretty uncomfortable about it. but it does happen. even to a point that when we have sex with a couple they seem to want to overlook our (we only play together rules). an example, while visiting a couple we have played with and i wasn't there they push the "lets have a 3 some" Mrs.fun stands to our rules that we only play together, but on the other hand i can see the temptation while I'm not there. but none the less they stepped on me in a way. i found it strange i guess that they wouldn't have just called me or something and just been up front instead of placing Mrs.fun on the spot. we moved on. we cant say they are wrong just different than what we look for.

[JTcamp05 9]

You are jealous cause they were kissing when you were not there..... hmmmmm but it is ok if you were there, cause you have to be in control!!

 

Your wife did this willingly.... so why is the problem all about this guy, your frustration as I see lands on your wife.....

 

You have known this couple for a long time, spending vacations together, yet you worry about kissing..... I don't get it...... maybe you are not cut out for this activity, nothing wrong with that...

[fun4Ds 1,098]

JTcamp05 said:

You are jealous cause they were kissing when you were not there..... hmmmmm but it is ok if you were there, cause you have to be in control!!

 

Your wife did this willingly.... so why is the problem all about this guy, your frustration as I see lands on your wife.....

 

You have known this couple for a long time, spending vacations together, yet you worry about kissing..... I don't get it...... maybe you are not cut out for this activity, nothing wrong with that...

 

would you have the same response if it were the wife who started this thread?

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

The couple we swing with have been close friends for about two years.

 

Anyways, we started out slow with soft-swapping but moved quickly to hard. During the first few nights I found myself jealous and called a stop the swapping friendship...What was bugging me was his continuous lusting after my wife. Even during general social situations. All things being new he didn’t realize it was that obvious and said he would keep it in check.

From the start you found yourself jealous. From reading your complete post I think you are a jealous man by nature and jealousy will continue to be a problem for you if you continue to swing with anyone.

 

 

My wife and I also discussed the situation and agreed to some ground rules. Mainly that nothing happens with out discussing it first and it would be agreed to by both couples.

This is a vague statement in this story. "Nothing happens" seems later explained to mean "no kissing if I'm not watching you" because this is the event that you mentioned in your post that seemed to push you to the breaking point.

 

We were enjoying the evening dancing and having a few drinks, as I said they are close friends and we have the same circle of friends. So, I’m chatting with another couple and my wife excuses herself for a bio-break. No problem. I then notice the other guy head downstairs. After a few moments, 5 minutes or so, jealousy starts to kick in. I head downstairs and my concerns are realized. I head around the corner and see them in an embrace and kissing. So I’m a little pissed at this point. So my thoughts are what have they been doing and what would they have done?

Were you at a swinger club? I think what environment you were in is important to know. Was everyone you were socializing with swingers?

 

When Mr LM and I have been to swinger clubs or out socializing with swinger friends we often get separated and may find ourselves smooching for a minute with one of our sexy friends or playmates. We both love spontaneous moments when someone gives us a kiss. I can't imagine stopping a guy from kissing me - who I wanted to be kissed by - and saying "Wait! My husband has to approve this first and watch you kiss me! I'll be right back!"

 

Maybe your rule "nothing happens without discussing it first" is much too all encompassing. Maybe it is your attempt to be in control of everything all the time, and if you think that is possible to do, I think you will forever be frustrated and jealous.

 

I don't have your wife's or your buddy's input in all this. Maybe they're just having fun and not trying to put anything over you. Maybe your buddy acts like a drooling dog when he's around your wife and he shows no class...but your wife enjoys his attention anyway. Since their enjoyment of each other is bugging you then it's time to break the play off. But I think at this point you'll have a hard time cooling things down with your longtime friend. He'll probably still feel "lust" for your wife. And that word "lust" is again too vague a reference for me, since I don't know what that means to you I can only say that, as a swinger, I like the word myself.

 

Maybe I'll add more later. But I have to head out the door.

 

LM

[WesternSwing 504]

I think Spoo called it the way it is and said it very succinctly. You need to end the friendship all together and work on your relationship with your wife. Either they are developing a real, loving relationship together, they are both caught-up in the newness of being appreciated by someone other than their spouse (which can be real high), or they simply do not understand, recognize or care about boundaries you've set-up as a couple and a foursome.

 

Mr. WS

[lovinher 505]

Unless all their freinds are swingers, let's not forget this was not a swinger party. I'm with Spoo. Just because we may be swingers doesn't mean we would go sneaking around kissing past or present play partners whenever our spouse isn't around. They had a rule, regardless of how petty some might think it to be and that rule was ignored in a deceptive way. I think you sensed something and your senses were right.

 

Why would somebody risk being caught by other guests at a party with vanilla friends? I don't put all of this on just the guy. Unless the guy grabbed her and smashed his face into her's she is just a guilty.

 

Whatever, the trust is gone and it's time put the brakes on until you both are on the same page.

Not everybody is an "anything goes" swinger.

 

Quote

would you have the same response if it were the wife who started this thread?

 

Good question and I think we all know the answer.

[Spoomonkey 421]

LikeMinds321 said:

Maybe your rule "nothing happens without discussing it first" is much too all encompassing.

 

I agree. It may be, but I am not sure that is the point. The point is it was their rule, it had been discussed and apparently readdressed a time or two. His wife and the other husband understood it, apparently acknowledged it and then broke it.

 

The lifestyle is all about re-visiting rules and changing them as you evolve in the lifestyle. I know a lot of our old "sacred" rules are getting seriously revised lately because of who we are as a couple and who our friends have proven to be. We have found that our rules, ultimately, were not about a mistrust of each other, but a mistrust of the people we might run in to. Now - we have friends we trust, which makes us more open to a lot of ideas.

 

That said - if Mrs Spoo had simply taken it upon herself to play out of bounds - after we had both clearly established the boundaries, there'd be at the very least a long discussion and perhaps some damaged trust.

 

In this case, the wife and the friend stepped over a line that - based on what has been posted - was very clearly drawn in the sand.

[des1re06 200]

I've tried looking at this from both sides of the issue, his and hers. I'm going to answer from a woman's perspective.

 

First, these are long-time playmates, not new to you or her.

 

Questions I asked myself, if I were you:

 

Did you have a firm rule, even if at a house party that we do nothing without the other there watching?

 

See this is hard for me because we're not actually having a conversation and can't get both sides.

 

We've been swinging for a year, and I have no issues if hubby kisses someone else, or even goes off in another room and has sex, if we're at a party with our regular playmates. We do our own thing at parties, and I'm not shackled to his side. You felt jealous when she was gone just 5 minutes??

 

So, I guess I would need to hear both sides of the issue before I could let you know about the overacting. I'm sensing a bit of jealousy/control issues. From a woman's perspective, I really dislike being controlled.

 

My only advice: Step back and talk about what's bothering you with your wife. I don't think we would end a good relationship with another couple over this though.

 

Mrs. D

[bdrcc1 15]

I don't care who my wife kisses and the same for her. But I think this is a trust thing and must be delt with.

[Spoomonkey 421]

des1re06 said:

From a woman's perspective, I really dislike being controlled.

 

I don't think it is about control, it is about respect.

 

Over the few years we have been in swinging we have gone from having a long list of rigid rules (all discussed and agreed upon) to having one simple rule: respect. I know what would hurt my wife, and I choose not to do that. Conversely, Mrs Spoo knows what would hurt me - we talk about everything - and she chooses not to do it.

 

Could she go up to a room with a man she really wanted to be with? Of course, she could - regardless of what I might have to say about it. I don't own her or control her. However, it would hurt me and damage our relationship. So she doesn't do that. She respects me and values what we have.

 

I agree, we are not having a conversation with all the sides involved and that makes whatever advice we might give very one-sided. But we can't fill in the blanks. The basic question is - did they establish the boundaries? Yes, based on what the OP wrote. Did the wife and the husband cross them? Yes - again based on what is written.

 

To me, that shows a fundamental lack of respect for the OP and his wishes, desires, feelings and comfort zones. And as we all know - in the lifestyle you have to run at the pace of the slower partner.

[lovinher 505]

Did you have a firm rule, even if at a house party that we do nothing without the other there watching?

 

My wife and I also discussed the situation and agreed to some ground rules. Mainly that nothing happens with out discussing it first and it would be agreed to by both couples.

That answers that.

 

We've been swinging for a year, and I have no issues if hubby kisses someone else, or even goes off in another room and has sex, if we're at a party with our regular playmates. We do our own thing at parties, and I'm not shackled to his side.

Not everybody feels the same.

 

I'm sensing a bit of jealousy/control issues. From a woman's perspective, I really dislike being controlled.

 

So having a problem with a broken rule is a control issue?

Also how many times has it been said that some jealousy is normal to a point? We don't play alone, I won't allow it, I forbid it. Neither would my wife. Is that a control issue? As I said, not everybody is comfortable with an anything goes lifstyle. If that is what some agree to then great. I certainly have no problem with that. There is a middle ground for some between monogomy and playing with anybody whenever you feel like it. There is also a middle ground between having no rules and book of them.

No matter how much you, me or anybody else thinks a rule is too restrictive, it is still their rule that they agreed on.

 

If the OP had posted that he was the one who snuck off to a quiet place to swap spit with a regular play partner or anybody else for that matter, he would be slammed for doing it.

 

From a woman's perspective, I really dislike being controlled.

From a man's point of view, if my buddy and my wife jumped at the chance to do some extra activities knowing full well there was already an issue that we talked about, shit would hit the fan. I really dislike being deceived.

 

Maybe it is just an infatuation because of the newness. That does not excuse going behind your spouses back, your freinds back and pulling something like this. So if it is just that, an infatuation, he should ignore this and act as if nothing has happened?

I'd be looking for another freind. Remember, they talked about, all agreed, they did it anyway. It would be hard to trust my freind again and my trust in my wife would be damaged. Not because of the kiss as much as the fact that an agreed boundry was ignored, blatently and secretive.

 

I wonder where this would go if they had not been caught.

I also wonder if there is more to the story.

[graygo98 148]

Boy, red flags down all over the field on that play. In no particular order of importance:

 

• You are a jealous guy, and that is such a negative emotion that if you can't come to terms with it your marriage is at risk. Compounding it by swinging is like smoking while pumping gas.
   
  
• Your wife seems to be a bit thoughtless, at the least. And yes, disrespectful.
   
  
• Your judgement in playmates is terrible. The other guy was a train wreck waiting to happen and yet you hesitated for even a second to pull the plug becasue you didn't want to lose the "friendship"?
   
  
• That you valued a friendship like this when it was harming your most important relationship tells me you need to work on your priorities.
  

 

Forget swinging and whether or not you "over reacted". You got work to do.

[WesternSwing 504]

You felt jealous when she was gone just 5 minutes??

 

So, I guess I would need to hear both sides of the issue before I could let you know about the overacting. I'm sensing a bit of jealousy/control issues. From a woman's perspective, I really dislike being controlled.

Ah, the jealous bring down the curse they fear most upon their own heads. More more you try to control, the more the controlled wants away from you and your control. Very good angle on the situation here, des.

[tjomc 25]

My wife and I also discussed the situation and agreed to some ground rules. Mainly that nothing happens with out discussing it first and it would be agreed both couples.

 

Did the same conversation and rules get talked over with the other husband? If not he could not understand that he was crossing the line. Your wife may not have thought a kiss was anything more than a kiss.

 

My advice to you is step back and clear your head, you can't have any viable conversation with your friend let alone your wife if you are on the verge of a melt down.

 

If you don't keep a cool head you might just destroy two families yours and theirs, Its not worth it i assure you, These are people who are inportant to you and your wife talk them out don't make accusations that may be totally unfounded.

 

They may not know that you feel betrayed.

 

Talk it out with your wife first, then as a group if you decide that its over than figure out where that takes you, but ouly after you have the truth on the table

 

You have to deal with your insecurity problems and soon.

[havefuninsun 122]

The bottom line is, you have felt uneasy about the benefits part of this relationship for a while now. If it's founded, if you're overreacting, if your jealous, if your wife was disrespecting you ... whatever. It is what it is, and you are doing the right thing by not playing with these folks anymore.

 

I can nit-pick the post ... like, are you asking if by getting pissed off at the two of them is overreacting ... but, I think you've felt uneasy about this guy for a very long time. So it's hard make a comment on one particular instance. I think you're making a judgment call because of a HOST of instances in your past. This seems like the last straw.

 

Everyone plays different. As long as everyone understands the rules (and by everyone, I mean Mr. Fun and I). If we went to a party and the rule was "anything goes but intercourse without the other one there," then finding him kissing someone else wouldn't bother me. But if that wasn't explained before hand, I would be irritated, to say the least.

 

Go with your gut. Find some different folks to play with. It's about variety, right? Time to taste some new fruit ...

 

 

Good luck!

[sweet_tna 680]

For me, the situation comes down to these two components: Knowledge and Consent.

 

Knowledge: Did OP's wife and the buddy KNOW the rules? IMO, they did.

Did OP KNOW what the intent was behind the wife and buddy's actions (an innocent kiss or a prelude to more)? IMO, he did not.

 

Consent: Did OP CONSENT to any kissing/play between wife and buddy at this party? IMO, he did not. He had established his jealousy issues (right or wrong) with his wife and had spoken to the buddy to reestablish the rules.

 

And there you have it. This may be oversimplifying things, but without the viewpoint of the wife and buddy, it's the closest I can come to answering OP's question. And I feel that what Mr. Sweet and I might do is irrelevant here.

 

~Mrs. Sweet =)

[rpu3 630]

We've been swinging for a year, and I have no issues if hubby kisses someone else, or even goes off in another room and has sex, if we're at a party with our regular playmates. We do our own thing at parties, and I'm not shackled to his side. You felt jealous when she was gone just 5 minutes??

 

So, I guess I would need to hear both sides of the issue before I could let you know about the overacting. I'm sensing a bit of jealousy/control issues. From a woman's perspective, I really dislike being controlled.

 

I am a control freak in way too many areas of my life, but heaven forbid if you try to control me. Nor are we chained to each other's sides in regular life or in our alternative life. We are pretty independent.

 

However, I don't think having established rules or standards of behavior in this situation, or in any alternative sex situation equals control. The fact that each of us can do the alternative our own as wanted (as an example) doesn't mean that we intentionally violate the agreement we had arrived at to make all involved parties comfortable. To do so is to just make it readily apparent that we don't respect the other. It isn't control, or ownership or being allowed to do something, but more a matter of respect for how we decided to conduct our alternative life.

 

If a tight set of rules was their agreement, and it was broken, then I can't see how he's supposed to be thrilled or understanding about it, and it doesn't necessarily equal a control issue. I'm more curious as to why he ignored his gut feeling about this for so long. If the OP had been uneasy for so long, perhaps the OP should have gotten to the bottom of his gut reaction a while ago.

 

As to the OP's actual question - are you overreacting? I don't think so, and it sounds like you are taking a reasonable approach to it as to discussing it with your wife. If ending the swinging relationship is necessary, I hope your wife is on board with your decision. It doesn't really matter what the other couple thinks of your reaction or decision.

 

Good luck, and hope to hear more answers to some of the questions posted here and what happens in the end.

[fun4Ds 1,098]

sndman, we hope you return with more input. as you can see people are different. not wright or wrong in the lifestyle or relationships but different.

 

our questions would be

 

1. how does your wife feel about this?

 

2. how long has the other couple been in the swinging lifestyle?

 

there is something to be said for experience here. as in anything, you learn something every day.

[ShellyM 0]

I like to cut to the chase so my question to the board is: Am I over reacting?

 

Please read below to understand why I’m asking the question and if I’m being an ass then lets call it that way…  Wouldn’t be the first time…

 

My wife and I discussed swinging for a couple of years, more fantasy than anything but actually started swinging about a year ago. The couple we swing with have been close friends for about two years.

 

Anyways, we started out slow with soft-swapping but moved quickly to hard. During the first few nights I found myself jealous and called a stop the swapping friendship. As a group we discussed what was going on and I and the other husband also met to discuss. What was bugging me was his continuous lusting after my wife. Even during general social situations. All things being new he didn’t realize it was that obvious and said he would keep it in check. My wife and I also discussed the situation and agreed to some ground rules. Mainly that nothing happens with out discussing it first and it would be agreed to by both couples.

 

This summer we went on vacation, we both have boys the same age, and had a good time. Once the kids were down in the other adjoining room the adults were able to play. During the vacation I noticed how often the guy was not walking with his wife and son but always between me and my family. I discussed it with my wife one night and she thought I was just getting jealous again. Maybe, but I asked her to just be observant over the next couple of days and she doesn’t see let me know. After the first day she noticed and it was not just me being jealous.

 

This past Halloween things went south. We were enjoying the evening dancing and having a few drinks, as I said they are close friends and we have the same circle of friends. So, I’m chatting with another couple and my wife excuses herself for a bio-break. No problem. I then notice the other guy head downstairs. After a few moments, 5 minutes or so, jealousy starts to kick in. I head downstairs and my concerns are realized. I head around the corner and see them in an embrace and kissing. So I’m a little pissed at this point. So my thoughts are what have they been doing and what would they have done?

 

So yes, I was jealous for the fact my wife didn’t want to sneak downstairs with me when I asked her earlier but also I feel they both let me down. When we first started swinging I became jealous and I talked to both of them and they both assured me I had nothing to worry about. It’s not the kissing that pissed me off but its that I had a suspicion that I could not trust my wife and friend.

 

Needless to say we are ending the swapping friendship. It took me a couple of days to talk to my wife about how I was feeling and she is apologetic. I’m having beers with my friend when they return from vacation. I believe the overall friendship will survive. Now the other wife believes I over reacted and I’ve blown the situation out of proportion. Now you know why I’ve asked the question: Am I over reacting?

 

In truth, I'd be hurt and pissed. Now, have I done dumb shit that got my ass into trouble like your wife? Yes. Mix lust and alcohol and you do dumb shit. However, your question is was your being upset justified. My answer is yes, I would have been ticked off too.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

If you knew these people for 2 years, and had done full-swap with them, and were at the same party, I'm not sure that your wife would have immediately thought that this might not be something she should be doing. I think that potentially this situation was not on the up-and-up, at least Mr. Playmate's intentions, but I'm not so sure that total disrespect is what this was or that your wife had some sinister plan to sneak off with the other guy.

 

Of course, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether we all think you over-reacted. None of us are married to you, so it makes the most since to talk to your wife. I wouldn't work to save the friendship with the other couple though, as you have some jealousy issues concerning Mr. Playmate, you think that he was trying to make the move on your wife and the other wife thinks you've over-reacted. It sounds like to me that the two of you need to take a step bac from swinging for a while. You aren't doing anybody any favors by playing while you have these unresolved boundary and jealousy issues.

 

Pepper

[WeMayTryIt 120]

Ah, the jealous bring down the curse they fear most upon their own heads. More more you try to control, the more the controlled wants away from you and your control. Very good angle on the situation here, des.

It's been said several times that jealousy is, at the root, insecurity. Insecurity in a relationship can come from two places that I can think of: 1) Our own inner demons that need to be exorcised; 2) The historic actions of the other person in the relationship. If one's spouse had a history of cheating, would there be good reason for insecurity? Of course there would. I'm not saying the OP's wife has a history of cheating, but it seems, at least to some degree, there could be valid reasons for the insecurity. The above comment about jealousy implies (in a somewhat condescending tone) that this is more of the inner-demon flavor, which may not be the case. Which ever flavor it is, I personally would resolve it before any further swinging occurred.

[ShellyM 0]

I think this other husband gave enough valid reasons for insecurity. I know with women, we get a "feel" of the other person, a vibe you can say. It is NOT insecurity, I can just get a vibe when I think the other wife or husband is up to some shady shit. Does that make me jealous? No. We had this recently. The young woman's husband is a mess. I am NOT playing with her husband. She wanted to play with Jay, but instead of coming to me and asking me with respect every time I would go to the bathroom she was on him. And he confirmed this: every time you leave the room she is here, then when you walk in she will go over there. So I simply gave her the universal "you'd better back the F*** up" look. Simple and easy. She got the message, I got drunk and laid and the night ended fabulously. Did that make me jealous or insecure? No, it made me mad. I can relate to this guy, and I think most of us can. Unfortunately tacky, selfish people make their way into our club sometimes lol. I think the hubby had every justification to be upset. Now I think the wife owed him an apology....she KNEW how he was feeling and so was smoochie smooching in a dark corner with this guy? Wrong answer. Again, we have all made mistakes. But I think this hubby is owed an apology. Then forget it, move forward and keep having fun.

[Guest screaminggood]

Well said, ShellyM. I think the other lesson to learn is that we must always pay attention to our own emotions and trust our intuition. This couple should have stopped playing with the other couple a long, long time ago...after the first, or at most the second time he felt uncomfortable about the situation.

 

We need to remember (oh, it's Friday, maybe you can be reminded tonight) that we're animals....all those emotions are safety mechanisms. When we feel uncomfortable, it's because there's a predator nearby. Unless we're in the mood to be eaten, it's time for the prey to move away.

[Cerberus 16]

we ask permission first for any alone time for anything or we give each other open permission for the night.

 

I better communication is the best thing.

[Girl 15]

We arc still fairly new to all of this and so as I have followed this post some questions have come to mind...

 

If you are at a swingers club for the evening and dancing and having a good night, do you need permission from the SO of the person you are dancing with if things progress to kissing and petting - in the open - if the persons spouse is aware you are "hanging" out together?

[Cpl2share 147]

Girl: That question is completely different, and as others have said: Each couple makes their own rules. There is no universal right or wrong answer to your question.

 

As for the original post: NO you are not over reacting. Regardless of whether you had felt jealousy previously, this situation is not good. If you and your wife had established boundaries regarding playing together and she crossed the line you are right to be upset. If this was in a non-swinging situation it was very much over the line. What if it had been the neighbor, pastor, school principal instead of you that found them? Even were it a swinging situation, you had established the boundaries. By you statement, he followed her downstairs. This shows clear intent, on his part at least, to be sneaky. As for us: We have similar rules. We only "play" with the knowledge of the other. Would I have a problem with Mrs. Cpl playing with another guy? Nope, not as long as I was aware of it. However, if she was doing it behind my back there would be serious issues. The reverse is true also; There are times she would just as soon I went to someone else for playtime, and I would probably do so, but never without her knowledge. Simple respect. Regardless of whether I have had sex with someone else or not, I would consider it cheating NOT swinging to play without her knowledge.

[Girl 15]

Girl: That question is completely different, and as others have said: Each couple makes their own rules. There is no universal right or wrong answer to your question.

 

The reason that I ask this in this thread (acknowledged that a new thread should/could be started) is because of the postings regarding asking before playing - I do suspect that I may have confused posts so I will cross post this as a new post.

[ShellyM 0]

Girl said:

We arc still fairly new to all of this and so as I have followed this post some questions have come to mind...

 

If you are at a swingers club for the evening and dancing and having a good night, do you need permission from the SO of the person you are dancing with if things progress to kissing and petting - in the open - if the persons spouse is aware you are "hanging" out together?

 

You do not necessarily need permission, it is more about going with the flow. If you know this couple, and it is all flowing well....she is into her/him, she is into her/him, all clicking....well heck, have fun. But if you don't know this couple I would not just go up to a hubby and start feeling him up while we were dancing. To me that is disrespectful.

[Spoomonkey 421]

ShellyM said:

You do not necessarily need permission

 

Unless, of course, you and your husband agree before hand that this will be the M.O.

[ShellyM 0]

Spoomonkey said:

Unless, of course, you and your husband agree before hand that this will be the M.O.

 

True that, you are absolutely right

[sndman 15]

Hey all thanks for the feedback. There are two sides to every story and when swinging ther may be more. I will forward this thread to my friend and have my wife read it. Not so that I say 'told you I wasn't over reacting' but to open the line of communication. At least that is my true intention. We are all new to this and when doing something new you somettimes get hurt.

 

I want to learn from it and in the end I may find the life style may not fit.

 

our questions would be

 

1. how does your wife feel about this?

 

2. how long has the other couple been in the swinging lifestyle?

 

there is something to be said for experience here. as in anything, you learn something every day.

 

1/ After I was able to discuss the situation she did state there was an attachment with the friend.

 

2/ We started together. They have had one other meeting, get to know you/introduction setting, but nothing developed.

 

 

If you are at a swingers club for the evening and dancing and having a good night, do you need permission

 

This was not a swingers bar. This was a vanilla party with other friends.

 

If you knew these people for 2 years, and had done full-swap with them, and were at the same party, I'm not sure that your wife would have immediately thought that this might not be something she should be doing. I think that potentially this situation was not on the up-and-up, at least Mr. Playmate's intentions, but I'm not so sure that total disrespect is what this was or that your wife had some sinister plan to sneak off with the other guy.

 

Disagree only because this was the second time the situation occured. The first time was with Ms. fun.... When we started down this path as couples and between my wife and I, we all agreed to NOT play without first discussing. We didn't want there to be any issues and thought this would be a good basis to begin. Ms. Fun and my wife made out during an overnight girls-night out without discussing it. Yes, I was upset. My wife and I discussed it and said flat out nothing would go on with out first talking.

 

I'm more curious as to why he ignored his gut feeling about this for so long.

Because I actually do trust my wife. I've trusted her when she goes to concerts with other guy friends or been out all night at star watching parties and I've not been around.

[rpu3 630]

Because I actually do trust my wife. I've trusted her when she goes to concerts with other guy friends or been out all night at star watching parties and I've not been around.

 

Thanks for answering - but, does your gut tell you something different when she's out with her male friends at concerts, etc., versus how you've felt about this swinging male? I ask because I'm more a believer in my gut instinct or reaction. It's rarely wrong, as I've found out every time I've ignored it.

 

Thanks for providing more information and good luck in getting through your situation.

[LikeMinds321 1,527]

Wow! This thread has really developed since I posted a couple days ago at the start of the thread.

 

After initially reading the OP, I had posted in reply thinking that they were all at a swinging gathering, even though it wasn't made clear. I presumed that since sndman had brought up other times they had all been together, which seemed to be focused on swinging, that the Halloween event was a swinging party.

 

When I read a post by someone who admits to having jealousy issues, yet has been playing with the same couple for a year with whom he has these issues, I think jealousy may be clouding that person's perspective. I also wonder how much they know about swinging. WesternSwing posted on jealousy here in another thread, and I think he made some great points.

 

If you set up rules, clear rules, then they should not be broken. How clear you made your rules to your wife and buddy was unclear to me. If they knew kissing was considered breaking the rules, yes, you have good reason to be upset. However, you confused me when you said it wasn't the kissing that bothered you. Maybe they didn't think kissing was breaking a rule since you shared with us that it didn't bother you, they might have thought that too.

 

When I first read your OP, I wondered: What do these four people know about swinging? How much educating and reading did they do before they took their friendship to the level of sharing sex?

 

Getting sexually involved with friends is one of the riskiest things you can do, it's been said many times in threads on the Swingers Board. I think you could all benefit from spending time here and reading about swinging. I hope all of you will.

 

LM

[sndman 15]

Hey all, just wanted to close this out with positive closure. The wife and I have had very good discussions over the last couple of weeks and have also agreed to not swing with friends in the future. To much sexual tension when you see each other every day and the friend can't control his own urges.

 

But hey live and learn and one thing for sure is that we both communicate a lot more now. Its reasuring to know your with the one and you can talk things thru.

[lovinher 505]

To much sexual tension when you see each other every day and the friend can't control his own urges.

 

Interesting comment. You sure this guy is your friend?

Good to see it all worked out.

[prettylady 221]

I read a comment earlier and it has me stumped.

 

Did your wife kiss him at a swinger club, or house party, or non swinging situation

 

Not sure how the comment went, guess I should have gone back to double check.

 

My problem is, why should a rule change just because your at a club. If the rule is people must be ok'ed, then people must be ok'ed. I don't give a flying rat's whoha where we are.

 

Rules are made to be broken, but as a couple not as an individual just because it didn't suit the time and place.

 

If we were at a club and Dog and I were separated, and I happened upon him kissing a girl I never met, or one that I said I had an issue with your damn right I am going to be pissed. A rule is a rule no matter where you are.

 

Now I am still green behind the ears and my idea of this rule is going to change, I know that, but I still stand that a rule made together is a rule broken TOGETHER.

[prettylady 221]

Oh, I just thought of something else. Keeping on my drama queen crown which I just earned from my last post.

 

The rule is "Go at the pace of the slowest person"....unless your at a swinger club?

 

VERY good chance I misunderstood the comments here, I do that sometimes.

 

But it just didn't sit right with me.

 

Please feel free to correct me

 

[10thBadger 25]

On 11/7/2007 at 9:48 PM, sndman said:

I like to cut to the chase so my question to the board is: Am I over reacting?

 

Please read below to understand why I’m asking the question and if I’m being an ass then lets call it that way…  Wouldn’t be the first time…

 

My wife and I discussed swinging for a couple of years, more fantasy than anything but actually started swinging about a year ago. The couple we swing with have been close friends for about two years.

 

Anyways, we started out slow with soft-swapping but moved quickly to hard. During the first few nights I found myself jealous and called a stop the swapping friendship. As a group we discussed what was going on and I and the other husband also met to discuss. What was bugging me was his continuous lusting after my wife. Even during general social situations. All things being new he didn’t realize it was that obvious and said he would keep it in check. My wife and I also discussed the situation and agreed to some ground rules. Mainly that nothing happens with out discussing it first and it would be agreed to by both couples.

 

This summer we went on vacation, we both have boys the same age, and had a good time. Once the kids were down in the other adjoining room the adults were able to play. During the vacation I noticed how often the guy was not walking with his wife and son but always between me and my family. I discussed it with my wife one night and she thought I was just getting jealous again. Maybe, but I asked her to just be observant over the next couple of days and she doesn’t see let me know. After the first day she noticed and it was not just me being jealous.

 

This past Halloween things went south. We were enjoying the evening dancing and having a few drinks, as I said they are close friends and we have the same circle of friends. So, I’m chatting with another couple and my wife excuses herself for a bio-break. No problem. I then notice the other guy head downstairs. After a few moments, 5 minutes or so, jealousy starts to kick in. I head downstairs and my concerns are realized. I head around the corner and see them in an embrace and kissing. So I’m a little pissed at this point. So my thoughts are what have they been doing and what would they have done?

 

So yes, I was jealous for the fact my wife didn’t want to sneak downstairs with me when I asked her earlier but also I feel they both let me down. When we first started swinging I became jealous and I talked to both of them and they both assured me I had nothing to worry about. It’s not the kissing that pissed me off but its that I had a suspicion that I could not trust my wife and friend.

 

Needless to say we are ending the swapping friendship. It took me a couple of days to talk to my wife about how I was feeling and she is apologetic. I’m having beers with my friend when they return from vacation. I believe the overall friendship will survive. Now the other wife believes I over reacted and I’ve blown the situation out of proportion. Now you know why I’ve asked the question: Am I over reacting?

You have more control than I could ever have 🙂 in your situation, and I saw them in a Embrace, I would’ve walked right behind him and slap the hell out of the back of his neck. And then look at my wife and say what the hell is wrong with you at that very moment. There’s no way I would’ve been able to wait a couple of days so like I said you have much more restraint than I do. I would not trust either one of them and like you said you don’t know what they have been doing since they have been lying to you. As for the other wife taking there side, she could kiss your ass on a sweaty day. But that dude would not be my friend anymore. And my wife would have to be much more than apologetic for her actions after I have warned her about his actions but now it is that it is both of the actions together. What makes it worse is what you said before when you asked her to go downstairs with you and she said no but then she had no problem sneaking downstairs with him and making out. 
 

I am just shocked and not sure what to say about the actions but at the same time I hope that you get this under control but like I said I am more nuclear then you are and maybe it is better that you are much calmer than I. But I don’t think I would be able to look that dude in the face and not to see distrust.

[10thBadger 25]

On 11/9/2007 at 6:58 PM, ShellyM said:

 

You do not necessarily need permission, it is more about going with the flow. If you know this couple, and it is all flowing well....she is into her/him, she is into her/him, all clicking....well heck, have fun. But if you don't know this couple I would not just go up to a hubby and start feeling him up while we were dancing. To me that is disrespectful.

It was at a Halloween party that was vanilla with many other people that are not swingers. She excused her self to go to the bathroom and he followed her. Come on, and he already expressed that he was having problems with the other husband having crazy feelings for his wife as he is found downstairs in a vanilla party making out with him. Like the other poster said, what is the pastor or the kids or other family members would’ve came downstairs and saw them making out. That is a simply crazy

[10thBadger 25]

On 11/17/2007 at 10:47 AM, sndman said:

Hey all, just wanted to close this out with positive closure. The wife and I have had very good discussions over the last couple of weeks and have also agreed to not swing with friends in the future. To much sexual tension when you see each other every day and the friend can't control his own urges.

 

But hey live and learn and one thing for sure is that we both communicate a lot more now. Its reasuring to know your with the one and you can talk things thru.

Dude I would not let her off the hook that easy but like I said you are a better man than I am or you are super controlled. Because I would not have been able to keep my wits about me if I saw my wife go to the bathroom and then her playmate following her downstairs to the bathroom and a vanilla party. And then cut them kissing downstairs. Somebody would’ve had to look different after I was done slapping the shit out of somebody. I would’ve been furious, You get more self-control and then you waited a couple of days to talk to your wife about it. They had a big conversation right now with me if somebody holding their eye. 
 

I’m glad you worked everything out.