Should I continue to bring up wanting to swing or drop it?

[SoCalCPL 15]

I (33yrs old) love my wife (36 yrs old) like I never thought I could love another person. We have been married for three years and together for a bit over four. I have had some experience in the lifestyle prior to her, she however has not. I am completely able to disassociate between sex and love. She believes the two are one in the same.

 

While our sex life is good, there is not a lot of variety. She is by no means a prude in that we watch porn together and play with toys, but that’s about as crazy as it gets. (the porn and toys are at my request) After some time I finally worked up the courage to ask her about swinging. Her response was not “Hell no, never bring it up again” but she wasn’t thrilled about it either. She has several issues with jealousy that I do not which certainly adds to her hesitance.

 

I have learned a great deal about not pushing this issue. I truly appreciate those forum members who go out of their way to pass on their advice to those in need. I realize the consensus for those of you “in the know” is that this is something that I should drop and allow her to bring up in her own time. While this sounds great in theory, I am afraid I may be missing the point to some extent. At this point she has told me that she isn’t ruling it out for the future, but that she is currently just not interested. She has asked that I not bring it up again and that if she becomes interested she will bring it to me. At the risk of sounding inconsiderate, am I expected to now stand by for the next six months, six years, sixty years and hope that she will someday be ready to explore this? Assume she never brings it up, how do I avoid building up resentment and feeling that she has disregarded something that is of obvious interest to me?

 

Prior to being married a “deal breaker” for her was kids. She wanted them, I didn't. According to her, her "clock was ticking"... I could certainly not have gotten away with an “I’m not ruling it out, but don’t ask about it again and I’ll bring it up to you if I’m ever ready.” This was an issue that was important for her and out of respect for our relationship I agreed to have a child. I now couldn’t be happier that we have our two year old and have embraced my decision whole heartedly. In other words, I took a chance and am thankful I did. I guess a blunt way to ask this is; why, when an issue is important to her am I expected to “shit or get off the pot” but when the situation is reversed she should just get back to me if she feels like it? While these situations appear completely different, the theme is common. I took a chance, at her request, and made a decision that will affect the rest of my life. I am simply asking her to take a chance as well and give this a try. Not give it a try in the “lets jump in the sack with the next couple we see on the street” sense, but rather research this lifestyle together in good faith (not just say you’ll look into it and never think about it again). Talk with me about it, go to a club with me and see what it’s about. Meet other like minded couples for drinks and ask questions. In essence, do the level of research you would prior to making any big decision in life.

 

Bottom line, is this something I should continue to bring up, or should I drop it, repress my desires and risk building resentment? Oh, for the record, I am not AT ALL interested in this lifestyle without her. She has offered for me to do what I want on my own… that is simply not an option for me. We are either in it together, or not at all.

 

Thanks,

Matt

[crazycatz 17]

In my opinion, there are two issues here 1) an ok sex life and 2) the desire to swing on your part. These two things need to be addressed separately. I mean, if you had a good sex life with your wife would you still want to swing? You can work on the first issue independent of the second. And, I think if you work on your sex life together, introducing new things and fantasy enactments into the bedroom your wife just might get more sexually confident and eventually interested in swinging. She likely senses your dissatisfaction with your sex life and the issue of swinging is only heightening that.

So, my advice would be to first work on spicing up sex just between you and your wife and then see where that takes you.

[SoCalCPL 15]

Thanks for the reply, and for reading the long post...just wanted to clear this up a bit so more advice may be offered. Our sex life is "good", great really as I said in the original post. I just mentioned there isn't alot of variety. Does this change any advice you may give?

 

Regards

[tribbles 490]

I'd say either go to a club, like Allure or FA or even a Plush Party and do NOT play with anyone but each other for as long as it takes for her to change her mind, if she ever does.

 

OR if you and she want to talk to lots of others only....there are two meet and greets in the area at bars where there is NO playing.

 

Let her know about the resent you already see building that you put in your post.

[crazycatz 17]

No it doesn't really. You can get variety in your sex life without having to introduce swinging.

[cplnuswing 4,712]

You didn't elaborate on how you brought it up. If she interpreted or sensed that your true motivation is to "benefit" you, then her answer isn't surprising. Not trying to imply that is your true motivation, but perhaps she took it that way. Or, did you present it as something you can experience together, which is much more positive? Going to a club would be a good start.

 

You haven't been married long, and that is working against you. For most couples, it takes a good many years to build up the sort of communication skills and trust in each other that swinging requires. Maturity, both as individuals and as a couple, is also a factor.

 

Not sure the "I took a big chance for her, so she should do this for me" applies here. Before you were married, she was clear what the conditions were, and you choose to accept them. From what you have said, you did not present your conditions before making it official and getting married. Now, you want to change the rules in a way that much of society says strikes deep at the heart of the marriage itself. Obviously, not everybody feels that way, or else we wouldn't be here. All that is really relevant though is what you and her think about the subject, and until you are both on the same page, not going to happen, or at least not in a positive way.

 

Let it slide. Maybe gently extend some feelers every now and then to see if she wants to bring up the topic, if not, let it slide again. Her mind isn't likely to change anytime soon. When she's ready, if she ever is, she will let you know.

[ownerspet 506]

I agree with cplnuswing... but to add... it is difficult for me to see you agreeing to have a kid to swinging, even though both are major things in life.... it is easier for most to accept having a kid than it is to go against something society seems to have tried to brainwash us into thinking is bad... (so no one gets the wrong message, I don't think swinging is bad, I just think society unfortunately has certain expectations of people)

 

So you may want let it go, but if one really grows to resent his or her wife or husband over the disagreement on the decision to swing to the point where it impacts his or her life, they should really consider do they love their mates to begin with. I know we could make the argument that they should listen to us, but in reality you have to be patient on an issue that goes against the norms that have been installed in most of us by society.

 

Maybe if you get the chance to bring it up, maybe you should focus on the benefits for her. I'm not saying you will move forward, neglecting yourself. But present it as something for her, and for the both of you.

 

that's my piece.....

[ShellyM 0]

Original poster, I think you are a very nice person. I love how you start out by saying that you love your wife.

 

You have to know from jump that swinging simply is NOT for everyone. One of my best friends is baffled by the fact that Jay and I are able to do this; to her sex and love are ONE and cannot ever be separated. She also has territorial issues which are just normal for her...I don't say jealousy. She just sees sex and love as one entity. It just trips her OUT when Jay and I talk about house parties or how we played with so and so...she shakes her head and told me once that she just cannot fathom how we have the ability to talk about sex with other people in such a cut and dry manner. This simply may be something that she is not into, and that is okay.

 

How important it is to you is something that I just don't know what to say. I agree, there are 2 people in every relationship. I honestly do not know what to tell you in regards to you in regards to swinging. I know one thing: It sounds like you have a wonderful family. You have what sounds like a wonderful, loving wife and a fantastic child. I would really, really, really think about whether or not recreational sex with strangers is worth giving that up or putting it in jeopardy. Lord knows Jay and I have our hurdles in swinging lol...but our sex life at home is fantastic. OUR sex life is fantastic.

 

I think personally that you should talk with your wife; maybe leave the baby at Grandma's and go out for a romantic weekend. Go to the swing club IF she is okay with that just to be in the sexual environment; buy her some sexy lingerie. You HAVE to work on your own sex life or I'm telling you it won't work. Swinging is never to be used as a patch. If your sex life at home is not where you want it to be swinging will not help, I'm telling you. Does it rev up a sex life? Yep. When we have fun in swinging its wilder than normal. However, I would work on your sex life at home. A lot of women just need some patience and love; once she feels sexual and confident she will come around. Anyways, I apologize for rambling. Please think about everything you would be losing before you start beginning to contemplate giving anything up for swinging.

[BradAndJanet 70]

SoCalCPL said:

...am I expected to now stand by for the next six months, six years, sixty years and hope that she will someday be ready to explore this? ...

 

Yep.

 

If you value your relationship, that is.

 

Also, and I mean this in a friendly way, go back and read what you wrote. I understand the quid-pro-quo you're looking for, but your analogy is superficial. The two situations are not really alike and carry with them whole different sets of risks and rewards.

 

You can't let yourself become bitter. Not everyone swings. Is it really more important than her?

[SoCalCPL 15]

Brad-

You make a good point. I can see that my comparison does sound superficial at best. I suppose I was, and continue to try to convince myself that since I took such a chance with her, she should be willing to take a chance on something I want. Bad choice on my part.

 

Thank you all for your input, my wife is the most important thing to me. As much as I would like to play in the lifestyle, it isn't as important as my family. I will follow the suggestions left here and maybe one day she will be ready. She has suggested recently that we go to a strip club...maybe a step in the right direction??? ?

 

Thanks Again

[ShellyM 0]

SoCalCPL said:

She has suggested recently that we go to a strip club...maybe a step in the right direction??? ?

 

Matt, if nothing else strip clubs are a BLAST lol!! What fun! If nothing else get a sitter for the kids, go to the strip club. Let her take the lead; I would not ask for a lap dance lol. Maybe jokingly say you'd like to get HER a lap dance and see if she laughs or says no. Get a feel of what she is thinking. I think it is a good sign...its a sign that she is thinking sexually and that is great for YOUR relationship. Its wonderful to hear that she and your child are your top priority. They are what lasts. Swinging is a hobby; it comes and goes. Family is always there. I think you should get her all sexied up. Be all over her all night long; SHE is the finest, most sexy woman in the place. Trust me, she'll notice the looks the other men give her....and I think it will turn her on. Make her feel like the queen she is. Have fun. Go home or to the hotel and have sex like animals. That's what its all about anyways, enhancing YOUR relationship. Even if she were to say yes to swinging, at the end of the day its about firing up YOUR sex life...so if strip clubs do that for you than go ON with your bad selves......tell me how it goes cause I need to take Jay to one soon too lol. Have fun and the best of luck. Good decision.

[des1re06 200]

Even better is a dual "private" lap dance (if the club has those rooms).

 

Definately let her take the lead, and if she's okay with strip clubs, go for it.

 

That's how we started (on our honeymoon)!

 

Mrs. D

[iapr 24]

This is one "how do I get my wife to swing?" that I think has some merit and I think your outlook and issues are realistic and fair.

 

First off I do agree with you that her statement of don't mention it again unless I bring it up" is a bit unfair especially since she said that she isn't ruling it out. In a healthy relationship everything should be open for discussion and I think your children analogy is fair.

 

If she had said that she thinks it is amoral and that it offends her sensabilities and that noone should ever do it, then yes I would say to drop it. But since she did leave a bit of an open door and admitted that hesitancy is based on jealousy and in separating love and sex, that does leave you a little wiggle room.

 

If she says she can not separate love and sex that is fair enough very few women truly can. What I would advise is to refine your approach a little bit. My wife was VERY much the same as yours and what worked for us is my approach was not to try and have her separate love and sex and to try and have us have cold unfeeling sex with strangers but rather approached it from the perspective as that it would be OUR sexual experience as a COUPLE and that even though it may involve contact with other people, it was in fact US that were MAKING LOVE as a COUPLE and that we were just getting some extra stimulation and excitement from other people.

 

In other words we do not separate love and sex at all. We have a very loving and sexual relationship with each other we just sometimes bring in other people to provide to extra stimulation and exictement into our sexual experience and we do the same for others people's sex lives and everyone comes away happy and smiling.

 

Yes any time you try and tell a normal heathy female to have recreational sex or sex without feelings with a stranger you are going to run into a brick wall. If on the other hand you approach it from the aspect of that it is part of your sexual dynamic as a couple and that it is in fact a very powerfull and intense and intimate erotic experience (WHICH IT IS!!) and that it feeds into your intimacy as a couple, then you may have a fighting chance.

 

This even addresses to the jealousy aspect somewhat because if you are doing something TOGETHER AS A COUPLE for the common benifit of the maritial relationship and sex life then there shouldn't be any reason for either of you to be jealous. If you are just looking at it as fucking other people just to fuck other people then yes, there is good cause for jealousy.

 

I know this was a long and wordy post and much of it is more philosophical than nuts and bolts but the philosophy is that swinging is something that a couple does together as a couple as part of their maritial sexual dynamic. That is something that a normal female and wife may buy off on. Where as "having sex with others" and "separating love and sex" just for "variety" is just fucking and that is not something that is part of the female sexual nomenclature. The nuts and bolts of that come into play in how you present the package and the words you choose in how to describe it.

[ShellyM 0]

des1re06 said:

Even better is a dual "private" lap dance (if the club has those rooms).

 

Seriously, I didn't know they do that!!! I'm so duhhhhh sometimes. Now I HAVE to take Jay to the strip club in Austin!

[des1re06 200]

I didn't know they do that!!!

 

Yes, just ask for their rate list. Duals can be quite expensive. A "dual couch dance" should be around $150. A VIP room can go up to $1000 (depending on the club). Even more if you include more than 1 dancer.

 

Just thought you should know.

 

Mrs. D

[midnightplayer 135]

Well, you have a problem Cal, and that is if your marriage is sexually marginal, it won't get better. I have been married 37 years and love my wife, but our sex was always just good, not great. As Time went on two things entered the picture, Parent Illnesses, her mothers death and menopause. Then her fathers aging and the need to become the parent. I and our sex life became unimportant to her. She just stopped being intimate. Sex is in the dark, no toys, no oral, lasts 18-22 minutes and it is over, leaving me wondering is that all that is left. You must address this issue right now, and not let it linger for years and years, it will only get worse and eventually lead to divorce and pain. Every man deserves a satisfying sex life not just a good one. If she is not interested now she will only regress as time goes on. Good luck

[ShellyM 0]

des1re06 said:

Yes, just ask for their rate list. Duals can be quite expensive.

 

Damn, I was thinking more on the lines of $40.

 

LOL. I'll have one of our friends give him a lap dance next weekend at the club lol. If Jay is giving any woman $1000 cash it's going to be M E. And the Gap, and Papaya and Juicy Couture. LOL.

[Chicup 41]

First comparing having kids to swinging is marginal in terms of 'well I did this for you' comparisons.

 

We are swingers, we have kids, its comparing apples to mountain ranges.

 

Now that being said, you weren't quite clear on how you dropped your swinging bombshell. I can't say for sure, but if I just said 'hey lets be swingers' without any earlier 'prep work' I doubt it would have worked.

 

If I were you I'd drop swinging persay out of the conversation all together. Work on her fantasies, talk about them, open her up to possibilities. As her if she would like a threesome with another guy, ask her what turns her on, and do so at the right moment. Not after shes fed the kid and is doing the dishes but when shes at her maximum horny point, while shes about to have an orgasm etc.

 

Swinging IS scary for a lot of people to think about, most people have a ton of hang ups. For women they tend to be 'no one will find me attractive' or 'will he fall in love with someone else'. The first can be overcome once you go to your first party, but the second you need to have solved before you swing. She needs to trust you 100% and know that isn't an issue.

 

Make it something for HER and you have a chance. Make it something YOU want to do and she will be constantly thinking 'why'.

 

I'll note here that even for those who say they want to see their wives with another man, if you present that wrong its still for YOU not her. She needs to want to be with another man first, and in fact my guess some women would find that weird if their husbands brought that up out of the blue. Its so anti-standard male thought that even if it sounds fun she would naturally feel something was wrong.

[ShellyM 0]

Swinging IS scary for a lot of people to think about, most people have a ton of hang ups. For women they tend to be 'no one will find me attractive' or 'will he fall in love with someone else'. The first can be overcome once you go to your first party, but the second you need to have solved before you swing. She needs to trust you 100% and know that isn't an issue.

 

Make it something for HER and you have a chance. Make it something YOU want to do and she will be constantly thinking 'why'.

 

I'll note here that even for those who say they want to see their wives with another man, if you present that wrong its still for YOU not her. She needs to want to be with another man first, and in fact my guess some women would find that weird if their husbands brought that up out of the blue. Its so anti-standard male thought that even if it sounds fun she would naturally feel something was wrong.

 

Outstanding points! And all true. For us swinging was something that I brought up vs. Jay so I honestly cannot say that I was wondering why. But I have talked with lots of ladies who were contemplating this and yes, it is a concern I think....they wonder if their hubby wants to do this because they aren't "taking care of things at home" right or why is she not enough...its very important that both partners be compatible and are on the same page with this. Otherwise what happens is you end up with a very upset wife or husband for that matter. I think we've all been at the club or a house party and seen a couple where one was not ready. Its not pretty.

 

And yes I agree, its out of the blue and "un-natural" so to speak for a husband to say that it turns him on to think about his wife being with another man. I know for me it is, I love thinking about Jay being pleasured with other women. But it can freak someone out hearing such a thing out of the blue LOL. I did this to Jay in regards to bdsm....completely out of the blue I decide to release this random thought I had been pondering like during lunch or something. Completely inappropriate, I dropped a bomb. I can't even remember what it was, it was like "I'd like you to tie me up" or some crazy shit LOL. And then when he was completely shocked (and this was after we were experienced swingers lol, so I can imagine how a vanilla person would react) and blown away I was like whats the problem...well DUHHHHHH you don't just drop bombs like that. LOL. But I do dumb shit sometimes....after we talked about it we laughed and I apologized for just letting out a random thought. So yeah, planning is best when bringing up such subjects.

[Tybee Swing 286]

SoCalCPL said:

While our sex life is good, there is not a lot of variety.

 

Hi Matt,

 

It sounds like some boredom has crept in, and you're looking to get things hotter with your wife. There are ways to do this without swinging. In fact, you probably need to think of this whole thing as a gradual process. Try not to be so goal-oriented (getting her to swing), and enjoy the process of improving your own sex life together.

 

Here is a thread called "How to Bring the Lust Back"

 

Read the suggestions given here by lots of board members. What I wrote to this guy, I would also write to you.

 

SoCalCPL said:

We have been married for three years and together for a bit over four. I have had some experience in the lifestyle prior to her, she however has not. I am completely able to disassociate between sex and love. She believes the two are one in the same.

 

Does your wife know about your prior swinging experience? If so, when did she learn it? Did she know all about it before you were married?

[SoCalCPL 15]

First of all, thank you all for your thoughtful advice. I appreciate the time people in this forum take to lend a hand to others. That said I will try and address some of the points I left unanswered or unclear.

First,

Quote

 

“Well, you have a problem Cal, and that is if your marriage is sexually marginal”

The sex is not “marginal”

 

…certainly didn’t mean to make it sound like that. The sex is great. It simply lacks a lot of the variance I prefer. As I said we watch porn together, play with toys, get in the hot tub naked a few times a month with a glass of wine, etc. but that’s as far as it goes.

 

Next, “…

Quote

comparing having kids to swinging is marginal in terms of 'well I did this for you' comparisons. We are swingers; we have kids, its comparing apples to mountain ranges. Now that being said, you weren't quite clear on how you dropped your swinging bombshell. I can't say for sure, but if I just said 'hey lets be swingers' without any earlier 'prep work' I doubt it would have worked.”

 

I wasn’t making a comparison between having kids and swinging. That was, in hindsight, a poor example. I have since realized that my decision to have a child was one I made with no expectation of getting some sort of a benefit on the back end of the deal. I made the choice and don’t regret it. My only point was the “…don’t bring it up to me; I’ll bring it up to you when I feel like it” is not exactly acceptable. On such a major decision I think it is boarder line disrespectful to expect your partner to circle in the holding pattern until the other is ready to talk; I don't believe it would have been acceptable to her if I had taken that approach to my decision to have a child. Shouldn't this be a two way dialog until a decision is made one way or the other? Why is discussing it deemed by her as “pressure” and how can I continue a dialog without her thinking I am pressuring her into it. How it came up was when we were closing our shades for bed one night (our bedroom is upstairs) we saw the neighbors and some of their friends playing in their hot tub.

 

Finally,

Quote

“Does your wife know about your prior swinging experience? If so, when did she learn it? Did she know all about it before you were married?”

 

Prior to being married, my wife new that I had a fairly experienced sex life (in comparison to hers). She was aware that as a single guy I had participated in threesomes both FMF and MFM. She did not know that I participated in the lifestyle while I was married to my first wife. This wasn’t something I kept a secret, it just didn’t come up. We weren’t active in the lifestyle, just played with another couple (same room full swap) on a coupe of occasions; no big deal. As stated earlier, we saw some others participating in it and she was turned on and that’s how it came up that I had done that with my ex-wife. Since then, during sex she is fine with talking about others, both men and women, playing with us. She loves talking about it during sex and gets very turned on by it. She enjoys watching movies such as “Party of Sex”, “Orgy Sex Parties”, and Devin Lane’s “Swingers.” In fact since we have started this sort of thing we have had the best sex of our marriage. Problem is she will go so far as to even bring it up herself in bed, but after she doesn’t want to talk about it. She says it’s only a fantasy and shouldn't be carried out. I, being a thick headed male, can’t understand why you wouldn’t want to live out a fantasy so long as it isn’t illegal and no one is getting hurt.

 

OK thanks again to all for your input. This has been very valuable information and is much appreciated.

[tribbles 490]

Problem is she will go so far as to even bring it up herself in bed, but after she doesn’t want to talk about it. She says it’s only a fantasy and shouldn't be carried out. I, being a thick headed male, can’t understand why you wouldn’t want to live out a fantasy so long as it isn’t illegal and no one is getting hurt.

 

Then you are still talking about it? Just in bed right now....seems that is a place many do a lot of the talking.

 

I agree you should be able to talk about it. Even if you never do it.

 

But I'd also like to point out where you think no one can get hurt, she may think it can hurt. Not just emotionally, which is a big issue but physically.

 

Study just HPV and tell me if your wife gets it, this was a risk free experiment she tried out with you.....And condoms are not 100% with HPV. Nor with HSV.

This is not a risk free, no way to get hurt, lifestyle.

[sexcupid 809]

1. imagination, esp. when extravagant and unrestrained.

2. the forming of mental images, esp. wondrous or strange fancies; imaginative conceptualizing.

3. a mental image, esp. when unreal or fantastic; vision: a nightmare fantasy.

4. Psychology. an imagined or conjured up sequence fulfilling a psychological need; daydream.

5. a hallucination.

6. a supposition based on no solid foundation; visionary idea; illusion

 

 

Here are but a few of the definitions of fantasy (there was a whole page more at dictionary.com...but didn't want to copy the whole page). If she is engaging in talk during sex, then maybe the fantasy is enough. You state that she was aware that your experience before your marriage was greater than hers and that she was pretty specific about wanting to get married and start a family. Maybe she is just totally in the zone on the 'wife/mother' mindset that she can't quite break out of that mold yet. She is the mother of a young child, and for some women that is their primary focus and identity for a while.

 

You state your general sex life isn't suffering, just lacking a certain amount of variety. By your own admission you weren't overly active in the lifestyle with your previous wife and had a bit of 'sowing wild oats' time with your 3somes and what not as a single male. Similar to my comments in another thread, maybe she isn't comfortable bringing up specifics regarding swinging b/c what she might be comfortable doing at this point...she might not feel is 'wild' enough for your expectation. What if she is comfortable with same room sex (not that I think you don't know what I mean, but I want to specify what I mean: being you and your wife having sex in the same room/bed as another couple with nothing but watching going on or soft swap only)?

 

I think it is a good sign that she is communicating with you somewhat. But here's the deal...maybe your wife is like I am. You bring a topic up, and it takes me a while to mull it over...turn over different scenarios in my mind, get comfortable with an idea and from there accept or reject it. Sometimes I might bring it back up in conversation, but not really 'hash it out'...but maybe still trying to get comfortable with the idea or gain another perspective from you. Sometimes this process takes a while...

 

However, as you put it 'being a thick headed male' (but this goes both ways too)...sometimes either take silence, or no overt objection as an 'ok, this is a good idea'...or on the flip side, if she is this kind of thinker, that may be where the '..don't bring this up, I will when I'm ready' is coming from.

 

Good luck

 

Maria

[NYCTeamOfOne 15]

We are kind of in similar situation except I am trying to avoid getting myself in your situation where she may say "don't bring it up".

 

IMO women say it for two reasons.

 

1) She is grossed out by it. I barely mentioned it to my ex-fwb that I think it'd be hot if I can see her kissing a girl and she freaked out and say I only want some bi-sexual slut and never want to see me again. She goes to church every weekend so I should have known..but then again she was my fwb

 

2) She feels pressure. Perhaps you can mention it in a none serious, joking kind of way.

 

just my $.02

[sexcupid 809]

1) She is grossed out by it. I barely mentioned it to my ex-fwb that I think it'd be hot if I can see her kissing a girl and she freaked out and say I only want some bi-sexual slut and never want to see me again. She goes to church every weekend so I should have known..but then again she was my fwb

 

Just because she likes nsa sex doesn't mean that a female is open to a bi encounter (no matter how tame). Going to church has little to do with it, what if she would have told you that she wanted to see you kiss another guy?

 

Not all women have latent bi or lesbian tendencies...might want to make sure before you mention certain things...lol

 

 

Maria

[Chicup 41]

Just because she likes nsa sex doesn't mean that a female is open to a bi encounter (no matter how tame). Going to church has little to do with it, what if she would have told you that she wanted to see you kiss another guy?

 

Personally I'd never kiss another guy just because a woman wanted me to, but I'd not freak out about it either.

 

Even a woman I know who is VERY straight and grossed out by the thought of GG play is able to joke about how her husband would love it without going psycho about it.