The single guy discrimination....

[rhodeyguy07 15]

I'd just like to toss this out there for thought...

 

Noticed time and time again there are significant issues with single guys and how they are viewed by many couples.

 

They are often treated rudely, bashed and otherwise counted out.

 

Now thats not to say that single guys haven't earned that kind of treatment, because honestly a great deal of them don't understand the lifestyle, haven't been in it and think that being single is a great way to get into it, or they are just plain rude jerks. Hence, you see zillions of couples profiles various places like yahoo 360 or whatever that say no single guys, as do most of the moderated swingers groups.

 

However, I saw a nice, well worded post from a single guy, who was hoping to meet a single woman that was already into the lifestyle. This was on some local swinger board that I quit after I read the responses... anyways, he was polite, and was just hoping to stir some interest with some of the single women that are part of that group.

 

One couple posts "what an ass". That about sums up the typical responses from many couples.

 

I find that response to be close minded, rude and uncalled for. The guy was polite, not inappropriate and a gentleman about it. I thought swingers were all about being OPEN MINDED, but not always so when it comes to the single guy.

 

Furthermore, all of the couples out there that swing, have you always been a couple? Nope! At one point, you were both single. You may not have swung then, but you were also single. So what happens if tomorrow you split up with your significant other and now all of a sudden your the dreaded SINGLE GUY?

 

So I just wanted to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

 

Also about me. I have been to a couple swingers parties and one of them I went with someone i had just met that night. We didn't click really, but the party was fun, i was a perfect gentleman and the next day, during breakfast I was told by the owners that I could come back *ANY* time i wanted to as a single guy. All it takes is being a gentleman, not forcing yourself on anyone and just be relaxed and have fun.

 

Oh and yea I'm single now, but I am in no big rush to go to a swingers party as a single guy, in fact, I probably wouldn't WANT to go as a single guy, cause the whole idea is actually the fun of you AND your partner experiencing more fun together but with more people involved.

 

Thanks in advance for your opinions...

[VegasLee 1,486]

Humans can be jerks. It does not take being a single guy to be a jerk, there are many single women and couples that are also jerks.

 

It is a people thing. Some people know how to treat others and many people do not.

 

There are many couples that do not want to party with single guys. Simple, guys, stay away from those couples. There are also couples that love to party with single guys, guys, use some class and manners and contact those people.

 

We have found in hosting at a very busy club that over the long period we have had more trouble with single women and couples then we have had with the single men.

 

Most people would think it would be the other way around but people think that because many couples and others will be happy to talk about "single guys" being an ass. Very seldom do we see a thread here about couples or single women being a problem even though the numbers prove out over time they are the problem. They seem to lack in manners more times then single men do. What a single women does and gets away with a single man will be nailed to a cross for doing the same thing.

 

Your thread is one that is brought up many, many times in these forums. You will get some answer here but you might want to just do a search and see the 100's of answers to this same question that have been made over the years.

 

Never let pixels on the Internet guide you in your quest for having fun in this lifestyle. Stick by your principles and manners and have fun.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Rhodeyguy,

 

I'll agree, we have had more problems with couples when attending clubs. And I think that is because the single guys are on their best behavior. The reactions in real life are different than what you will find on the Internet. On the Internet the jerks of all types come out of the woodwork because they can hide behind their keyboard. That is why you will find a lot of people putting "no single guys" in their profiles. I took that out of our profile, because I just blocked single guys from seeing our profile. The jerk couples I block on a case by case basis.

[iapr 24]

I am at times a single male basher but I am also not afraid to bash single women or couples too so since my bashes aren't discriminatory my thoughts may or may not have some merit.

 

Vegas Lee is correct in that this question is asked ad nauseum on every forum every day so what is it that you are wanting to hear differently today?

 

Perhaps if you could specify down your questions to a root question that is on your mind today I could address that a little more specifically.

 

Untill then I'll address a few things you stated in your post. As for the post that the single guy made looking single chicks that is just going to happen and it is part of the landscape. Let's face all single guys and a ton of married guys want to have some cheap and easy sex now and then (they called it free love back in the hippy era) If you are male and have a pulse all the single gals and all the couple know you are looking for a hook up. You can talk about friendship and "helping couples fulfill their fantasies" and blah blah blah but at the end of the day you want to get your tank drained. That's fair enough I do too as part of a couple and quite frankly so does my wife now and then. Where the single guy opens himself up for ridicule is that he is stating the obvious and it is a no win situation for him. If says he's horny and is looking for a quick and cheap hook up he is accused of being a boar and not understanding the lifestyle. If he says that he is looking for friendship or comaradarie (sp?) he is accused of being a manipulator and schmoozer. IT is no-win no matter what he says. In the case you mentioned (was it really you you are talking about?) he may have been polite and he may have been genuine but people are always going to ridicule a single guy because even my grandmother assumes that any guy will be looking for some quick and easy trim.

 

Another point you made was that we were all single at one time. That is also true, I did not settle down and get married untill I was in my early 30s and I definately did not live the life of a monk. However I did not think of myself as a swinger or as any kind of stud or ladies man either. The thought of being with a couple in an MFM situation was actually rather repugnant for me back then. Oh sure I would have fucked someones wife if they had sent her over to my place for some action but I had no interest in any kind of "swinging" situation.

 

My issue with a lot of the single males that write to us is that they have the same mentality. They seem to think that my wife is some kind of sex pot or whore and that I am some kind of limp dick that can't please her and so she should come over to their bachelor pad in the middle of the night so he can show her what a "real man" is like. Well that "real man" can't even fathom the thought of trying to get an erection if there is another naked man in the room so what is the point?

 

We have had guys write us and I have called their bluff. I said fine lets get together here's how it's gonna be. We will meet in a public place all three of us, we will chat and get to know each other. Maybe do some dancing and partying and then at the end of the evening if she is attracted to you and is comfortable with you and I am comfortable with you the three of us will chip in for a room and we will have a MFM. You'll only do what she says you can do and if at any time either she or I say the party is over the party is over. You can have sex with her but I will be having sex with her too at the same time and even though I am laser beam straight our elbows may brush against her and if she wants to blow us at the same time our dicks may even brush against each other. At the end of the encounter if you want to get together again you will have to go through me and if you try and contact her or get together without my knowledge you will be pounded into the ground untill the chinese are digging you up in the rice paddy.

 

Do you know how many people have even written back? Not one. notta, zilch, zero.

 

Now before you think I am a total ass I will say that we usually meet people at the clubs. There are single guys that are legit there and if I was to say that to one of them their reply would be "do you want to meet at 6 or at 7?" and they wouldnt' even bat an eye.

 

If you are what you say you are and you are accepted at a club, take that as an extreme compliment and go to the club. If you are not disfigured or deformed. Have a dick that works and are respectfull and courtious and most importantly "get it" you will be successful. If you don't "get it" you will spin your wheels and get no where and end up like 98% of the other single guys that think that a swingers site is a gateway to oversexed, ammoral, loose women that will drop their drawers for any troll that comes along

[rhodeyguy07 15]

I appreciate your response, it is honest and true. I just posted the other day cause I saw this guy being honest and polite and some jerk couple stepping all over him. I guess i just wanted to defend the guy but I didn't want to do it in that forum, so I posted here, I guess to make myself feel better.

 

Thanks though.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

rhodeyguy07 said:

I appreciate your response, it is honest and true. I just posted the other day cause I saw this guy being honest and polite and some jerk couple stepping all over him. I guess i just wanted to defend the guy but I didn't want to do it in that forum, so I posted here, I guess to make myself feel better.

 

I have to admit when I first read your post earlier in the week my first thought was "was this guy YOU?" (the guy being bashed that is?). Maybe it was maybe it wasn't. If it wasn't you I have to ask why you did not stand up for him maybe you could have said something in a better way than he did. I'm guessing the only answer to this is that you were afraid you would then be bashed.

 

There are plenty of couples who just flat out are not interested in single males and because of that combined with what others mentioned about how on the internet every crazy can hide behind a keyboard and they don't hesitate to show just how retarded they can be, well that simly equals said couples being very clear that they don't like single males. Yes, they lump you all into one big pile. But it's only because it becomes easier that way. I can assure you that those same couples if they met a nice well-spoken non-pushy single guy out and about they would be just as friendly to him in return, even though they were not interested in him sexually.

 

I have encountered rude and pushy single males both online and in clubs. But, I've also encountered rude and pushy COUPLES in both places. And what I find rude and pushy others may not have a problem with and vice-versa. At our local social there was a guy there at one of the first parties we attended that I found very pushy, however it seemed that most of the other ladies just fawned all over him (my guess is because he had a "sexy" accent - I don't particularly find accents sexy so I see right through that).

 

Around here we actually like well-spoken single guys and wish we had more of them. We have a very small handful. The other thing I would really love to see here is more activity from singles in general that went beyond that 1 new thread a week complaining about how single males aren't accepted. Really, if that's all single males have to bring to the table and all they can talk about then what's the point. We've heard it all before. And if we are a little short with our responses on such threads it's probably because we are tired of repeating ourselves.

 

[lovenestduo 74]

iapr said:

We have had guys write us and I have called their bluff. I said fine lets get together here's how it's gonna be. We will meet in a public place all three of us, we will chat and get to know each other. Maybe do some dancing and partying and then at the end of the evening if she is attracted to you and is comfortable with you and I am comfortable with you the three of us will chip in for a room and we will have a MFM. You'll only do what she says you can do and if at any time either she or I say the party is over the party is over. You can have sex with her but I will be having sex with her too at the same time and even though I am laser beam straight our elbows may brush against her and if she wants to blow us at the same time our dicks may even brush against each other. At the end of the encounter if you want to get together again you will have to go through me and if you try and contact her or get together without my knowledge you will be pounded into the ground until the Chinese are digging you up in the rice paddy.

 

Do you know how many people have even written back? Not one. nada, zilch, zero.

 

Now tell us how you REALLY feel.

 

If I got a response that was that hostile I wouldn't write back either. I'd be scared that if I did something, like leave my socks on, you'd beat the crap out of me. Or "boxers are a deal breaker, get out of our room". Anybody that would write back after being treated like something stuck to the bottom of your shoe would have to be completely desperate.

 

iapr said:

Now before you think I am a total ass I will say that we usually meet people at the clubs. There are single guys that are legit there and if I was to say that to one of them their reply would be "do you want to meet at 6 or at 7?" and they wouldn't' even bat an eye.

 

If you spoke to people the same way you wrote that I'd have to say "if it walks like a duck...". If I was in that situation and be spoken to like that my reply would be more like "do you want to meet out in the parking lot?"

 

It seems you could save time and feelings by just saying "f*** off and die" to singles instead. They would get the point and know what kind of person you are in just four words.

 

We are couples only and state that in our ad. We still get singles messaging us. Most get deleted, but depending on the wording, some get blocked or a polite reply. When we did play with singles they were treated as equals. Unless someone is getting hurt there is no need for hostility.

[iapr 24]

lovenestduo said:

Now tell us how you REALLY feel.

 

If I got a response that was that hostile I wouldn't write back either. I'd be scared that if I did something, like leave my socks on, you'd beat the crap out of me. Or "boxers are a deal breaker, get out of our room". Anybody that would write back after being treated like something stuck to the bottom of your shoe would have to be completely desperate.

 

If you spoke to people the same way you wrote that I'd have to say "if it walks like a duck...". If I was in that situation and be spoken to like that my reply would be more like "do you want to meet out in the parking lot?"

 

It seems you could save time and feelings by just saying "f*** off and die" to singles instead. They would get the point and know what kind of person you are in just four words.

 

We are couples only and state that in our ad. We still get singles messaging us. Most get deleted, but depending on the wording, some get blocked or a polite reply. When we did play with singles they were treated as equals. Unless someone is getting hurt there is no need for hostility.

 

You are quite correct in what you are saying and in fact I am surprised it has taken someone this long to point that out.

 

The truth is I did not write it in that manner at all and just stated what we would like to do in a normal conversational manner. I just simply said we would like to go out and socialize and dance etc and if things did become sexual that it would be a MFM focused on her pleasure. I was not at all confrontational or "in your face" with them. The point I was making above was that they wanted her to just show up at their house in the middle of the night and to have everything on their terms. When I stated (in a normal and courteous manner) what we were interested in, they wanted nothing to do with us. In a way you could say that it was them that rejected us and not us rejecting them.

 

We are actually very nice people and we have a great circle of friends. I intentionally wrote the above post in a raw manner to make a point and that point is very valid.

 

We do know several legit single guys from the clubs and they would definitely say that we are nice folks and we always treat them with dignity and respect. I made special mention of the guys at the clubs because many of them are legit and are decent and respectful people. They realize that women in the lifestyle are not sluts and nymphomaniacs that will drop their drawers indiscriminately. They realize that sometimes the interest and chemistry is there and that many times it is not.

 

If a legit single male is genuinely interested in a couple he will understand and accommodate the terms and conditions for which they will function under and won't have a problem with it.

 

I don't have a problem with legit single guys at all and they don't have a problem with me. I just think that 95% of the single males on the websites are really nothing more than wannabe prostitution johns that are just too cheap to cough up the $ to get a crack whore to crawl into their car. I don't have the slightest problem with a normal respectful guy socializing with us at a club like normal adults. What I do have a problem with is some scurv wanting my wife to come to their place by herself in the middle of the night or in the middle of the afternoon while his wife is out of the house.

 

I'll be glad to treat a man like a gentleman if he treats my wife like a lady and not some free whore. There is a whole world of difference between the two.

[Alura 2,774]

We have no interest in single men. That's why we don't write to them or answer their PMs when we get them. It's not that we're prejudiced against them; they just don't fill our needs.

 

I've used this parallel before, but imagine, if you will, that a person (male or female) were to show up at a Porsche Club's driving event saying, "I don't have a Porsche, but I'm really interested in them, and would love to drive yours. It's such a beauty! I'm a really good driver! I can make your car do things you have never been able to do!"

 

"Whaddaya mean,'No.' You're not fair to non-owners of Porsches! You must be a bigot!"

 

No thank you, Sir. We're interested in couples.

[Vjklander 138]

We've had lots of good times with SMs, but don't tend to follow through with whiners.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

Alura said:

We have no interest in single men. That's why we don't write to them or answer their PMs when we get them. It's not that we're prejudiced against them; they just don't fill our needs.

 

I've used this parallel before, but imagine, if you will, that a person (male or female) were to show up at a Porsche Club's driving event saying, "I don't have a Porsche, but I'm really interested in them, and would love to drive yours. It's such a beauty! I'm a really good driver! I can make your car do things you have never been able to do!"

 

"Whaddaya mean,'No.' You're not fair to non-owners of Porsches! You must be a bigot!"

 

No thank you, Sir. We're interested in couples.

 

 

Oh, Mr. Alura, I am ABSOLUTELY stealing that analogy! That is perfect. Although in our case, it'd be more of a Buick driving event.

 

I feel for single guys, I really do. But we swing to give and take. What am I, the hubby, going to get when I bring some horny guy into our bed. A "time out" while I watch him have sex with my wife? We want fun for the two of us; that means someone we can BOTH play with.

 

You know, a lot of couples with bisexual men welcome single guys. That means both members of the couple have someone to play with. So if single guys really, really want to swing, there is an opportunity.

 

I think if singles are looking for a relationship, they should seek one out the hard way, like many of us did. It takes work. Then comes sex (followed by more work, by the way!). In many cases (not all, of course) I think getting in bed with some "freaky swingers" is seen as an "easy" way to get some sex.

 

Here's what it seems like. "I want to get laid. I'll just fuck some weird guy's wife who gets off on that shit. I can skip the hard parts. I mean, I'll let him do stuff like running out at 3 a.m. for Mylanta because she doesn't feel well or sitting through a 2 1/2 hour wedding ceremony for her niece who he's never even met. I'll just get laid and leave."

 

Nice.

[rpu3 630]

I feel for single guys, I really do. But we swing to give and take. What am I, the hubby, going to get when I bring some horny guy into our bed. A "time out" while I watch him have sex with my wife? We want fun for the two of us; that means someone we can BOTH play with.

 

To each their own. Some people enjoy single men and/or single women, others only want to play with other couples. Perhaps there wouldn't be such a cry about discrimination from the single men if the 95% of the whining single men understood that not everyone is looking for a single guy and that we all come with our own set of biases, expectations and requirements. Not everyone wants to play with me or with us, and I'm not out here crying discrimination against red heads/blondes (depending on the month) who are quiet and overly picky, etc.

 

I think if singles are looking for a relationship, they should seek one out the hard way, like many of us did. It takes work. Then comes sex (followed by more work, by the way!). In many cases (not all, of course) I think getting in bed with some "freaky swingers" is seen as an "easy" way to get some sex.

 

And this is where I see the legitimate single man feeling a bit put upon, and I even feel a bit sorry for them.

 

Who says that single guys are looking for relationships? Why are we assigning this motive to them?

 

This is the one arena that allows for NSA sex. I sincerely doubt this is a single man's first choice place to go shopping for a relationship. Hell, we, as a couple, aren't going out to the club to find a new relationship. We are going to get our freak on, be it with singles, couples, or just with each other.

 

Why is it okay for us, as a couple, to go out with the intent to get laid, but not for single men? We all know the score in this activity and bring it on no matter what your relationship status is, as long as no one is lying in their pursuit to have some fun. I just will never get why that people/couples make assumptions about single men and their motives. We are all looking for alternative sex. Somehow, a single man can get all sorts of motives and negativity attached to them for pursuing the same thing I, as part of a couple, am.

 

Single men do have a part or role in the lifestyle, for some of us couples. Perhaps not for all, obviously, but for some of us. As such, it gets a bit tiresome to see the bashing. Yes, some single men suck. And not in a good way. But as I've said in other threads, I personally have had more issues with couples and a single woman being rude, pushy, offensive and any other form of jerk than I have had with single men as a group.

 

Here's what it seems like. "I want to get laid. I'll just fuck some weird guy's wife who gets off on that shit. I can skip the hard parts. I mean, I'll let him do stuff like running out at 3 a.m. for Mylanta because she doesn't feel well or sitting through a 2 1/2 hour wedding ceremony for her niece who he's never even met. I'll just get laid and leave."

 

Nice.

 

And if a single guy wanted to be there for the hard parts, he'd then be accused of trying to cowboy off the guy's wife, or wanting her to cheat with him, or trying to make a permanent threesome arrangement, or wanting a relationship. My spouse signed on for the scut work of marriage, as did I. If we are playing with a single male, we are doing it because it's fun sex, not because we want an extra set of hands with the normal marital work. Seems like a win-win if the average single male is looking for some fun and we are looking for some fun.

 

Single men, good or bad, just aren't going to catch a break from some. Nice.

[crazycatz 17]

And this is EXACTLY why most of us talk about single males the way we do! Look at this 'lovely' post in my thread asking for advice on a recent threesome I had:

Quote

 

Registered User

 

Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 1

Location: Gulf Breeze FL

Status: Single Male

Bensonc hasn't quite let us get to know them yet.

 

Default Re: Being the Single Bi-Fem in a threesome

If if I can help you out in anyway anyway let me know I would be interested in MFF gathering and I have never done it before so it would be my first maybe you can help me with being nervous

 

 

[Chicup 41]

rpu3 said:

Why is it okay for us, as a couple, to go out with the intent to get laid, but not for single men? We all know the score in this activity and bring it on no matter what your relationship status is, as long as no one is lying in their pursuit to have some fun. I just will never get why that people/couples make assumptions about single men and their motives. We are all looking for alternative sex. Somehow, a single man can get all sorts of motives and negativity attached to them for pursuing the same thing I, as part of a couple, am.

 

Easy because I always wonder whats 'wrong' with a guy who is single for years, has no wife or girl friend or otherwise, and yet is chasing tail at swingers clubs. To ME something ain't right there. If I were so interested in swinging I'd find a woman who is open to it again and go from there, I wouldn't be 'that guy' at the club trying to convince some couple to let me score with his wife. Most single males on line and even at the clubs are in fact losers and are just having their money taken by the websites and clubs but even the 'good' ones makes me wonder how different they must be in the head from me.

 

Being we are talking about my wife, mother of my children, love of my life, someone I'd take a bullet for, you better believe that anything that seems 'odd' is going to make me rather cautious.

 

To use Alura's analogy but take it a step further for the 'good' males. What kind of guy has the money for a Porsche, loves to drive them, has nothing else to spend his money on, and yet only wants to drive other people's? To me, that says 'odd'.

 

Quote

Single men do have a part or role in the lifestyle, for some of us couples. Perhaps not for all, obviously, but for some of us. As such, it gets a bit tiresome to see the bashing.

 

Why do you care? Are you afraid single males will stop trying to swing?

 

Quote

Yes, some single men suck. And not in a good way. But as I've said in other threads, I personally have had more issues with couples and a single woman being rude, pushy, offensive and any other form of jerk than I have had with single men as a group.

 

I agree with this and we avoid single women at clubs even more than the single men (whole different set of problems there). Now we never had a problem with a single male besides the standard online bullshit but then again we don't' play with single males, nor do we unicorn hunt.

 

Quote

And if a single guy wanted to be there for the hard parts, he'd then be accused of trying to cowboy off the guy's wife, or wanting her to cheat with him, or trying to make a permanent threesome arrangement, or wanting a relationship. My spouse signed on for the scut work of marriage, as did I. If we are playing with a single male, we are doing it because it's fun sex, not because we want an extra set of hands with the normal marital work. Seems like a win-win if the average single male is looking for some fun and we are looking for some fun.

 

I think you misinterpreted it. Its not 'why doesn't the single male help out around my house' its 'why does this guy who doesn't have this level of commitment with anyone think he should be able to get laid for 'free' by showing up at a swing club' I don't really agree from this angle myself but its part of the whole single males risk nothing vrs a husband angle.

 

Quote

Single men, good or bad, just aren't going to catch a break from some. Nice.

 

In my view they are VERY lucky to be there and shouldn't worry who doesn't like them. I get to be the 'single' male for some friends of ours quite regularly and thats how I think about it, I'm very lucky to be there.

[rpu3 630]

Why do you care? Are you afraid single males will stop trying to swing?

 

"Care" and "afraid"... kind of loaded words for me. I care to the extent that it's my opinion, so I'll just throw it out there like everyone else is. And afraid isn't really a word I'd use to describe why I expressed my point of view. If single men dropped out of swinging altogether, I'd be/we'd be just fine. Fear has nothing to do with it; I'm just not a big fan of global generalizations and the oft-prevailing mentality that single men are just the resident whipping persons for swingers and I can bother to say something about it, with the caveat, as usual, that YMMV (and usually does).

[TNT 1,155]

Easy because I always wonder whats 'wrong' with a guy who is single for years, has no wife or girl friend or otherwise, and yet is chasing tail at swingers clubs. To ME something aint right there.

 

To you something isn't right or there's something wrong with the man.

 

Where it is written that a man (or a woman) HAS to get married/be married or have a girlfriend/boyfriend to be happy and well adjusted? Being married or having a girlfriend/boyfriend does not make you a better or more adjusted person than someone who is single. I just don't understand what's so wrong with someone choosing to remain single and wanting to have an adventurous sex life that includes group sex.

 

Yes, single men (and women) probably can and do have an easier time getting laid in the vanilla world but...if their kink/preference/whatever you want to call it leans toward group sex where do they go in the vanilla world to find that? To me, it seems that swinging is the perfect answer for those who like being single but enjoy group sex.

 

Single men have always been apart of swinging, they always will be.

 

For couples: If you don't want to play with them...simple, don't. If they contact you off an ad site/IM/e-mail...simple, ignore them. If they approach you at a club/social/house party...simple, say no thank you we don't play with single men.

 

For single men: Read the couple's profile, if they don't play with singles...don't contact them. If you approach a couple at a club/social/house party...ask politely if they play with singles and if they don't, say thank you and move on.

 

There are people who are single who are jerks and there are people who are part of a couple who are jerks...martial status is not a determining factor in that equation.

 

 

Teresa

[Chicup 41]

TNT said:

To you something isn't right or there's something wrong with the man.

 

Where it is written that a man (or a woman) HAS to get married/be married or have a girlfriend/boyfriend to be happy and well adjusted? Being married or having a girlfriend/boyfriend does not make you a better or more adjusted person than someone who is single. I just don't understand what's so wrong with someone choosing to remain single and wanting to have an adventurous sex life that includes group sex.

 

It's pretty much against the nature of our species so when I see it I have to wonder why. The older you get the odder it gets. I happen to know a few men in their 30's like this (minus the swinging part as far as I know) and the only one without psychological issues that make them unattractive for marriage (as in they are single by others choice) is the one who views women as play things and nothing more.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Chicup said:

Easy because I always wonder whats 'wrong' with a guy who is single for years, has no wife or girl friend or otherwise, and yet is chasing tail at swingers clubs.

 

2 reasons...

 

1. They don't want a relationship. They enjoy NSA sex (specifically group sex) and don't want a relationship, maybe they've been married and divorced (or widowed) and just aren't ready to jump back into a relationships again.

 

2. Maybe they do want a relationship with a woman but as of yet have not been lucky enough to find one who is open to swinging and in the meantime why should they not swing as a single male and be enjoyed by the many couples who DO want to swing with single males.

 

 

Quote

Why do you care? Are you afraid single males will stop trying to swing?

Because I get tired of seeing anyone get bashed over and over again, or anytime that people overgeneralize and entire group of people into one subset. Just because you don't care to swing with single males doesn't mean that you need to constantly bash them as a whole. Why do you feel the need to bash them? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore them altogether? It seems like it would be a lot less stressful.

 

 

Quote

In my view they are VERY lucky to be there and shouldn't worry who doesn't like them. I get to be the 'single' male for some friends of ours quite regularly and that's how I think about it, I'm very lucky to be there.

 

The good single males who understand the swinging lifestyle do exactly that and they typically have a good time for it.

 

Once again it goes back to the difference between the anonymous single guys who have no understanding of swinging and no intention to ever do anything but annoy people online creating a bad situation for the single guys who really understand swinging.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

And this is where I see the legitimate single man feeling a bit put upon, and I even feel a bit sorry for them.

 

Who says that single guys are looking for relationships? Why are we assigning this motive to them?

 

This is the one arena that allows for NSA sex. I sincerely doubt this is a single man's first choice place to go shopping for a relationship. Hell, we, as a couple, aren't going out to the club to find a new relationship. We are going to get our freak on, be it with singles, couples, or just with each other.

 

Why is it okay for us, as a couple, to go out with the intent to get laid, but not for single men?

Single men, good or bad, just aren't going to catch a break from some. Nice.

 

I should cool down, and remember that as insulted as I was by your sanctimonious reply, perhaps single guys who want to swing would be insulted by what I had written.

 

Obviously I don't think single guys hope to swing with the intent of meeting a potential bride or going a'courtin' for a gal. That makes very little sense. And since you seem to want to take this from a general discussion (about the SM's who had contacted us) to a personal one, I should say it's foolish of you to interpret what I said in the opposite way.

 

It seems like the single guys we've communicated with (so far, at least) are not just looking for NSA sex, they are desperate for any sort of sex. That makes it seem to me as if they want to take the easy way out; "I haven't gotten laid lately, and I don't have a girl, so I'll use yours."

 

The OP may be a great guy. Maybe if we met him at a vanilla party, my wife would be dragging him into a room. I like her to have fun; she's my best friend, and seeing her have fun is fun for me. But when we go online, searching, we are searching for someone both of us can have fun with.

 

The OP wanted to know why SMs in general were being shut out. Maybe he feels that knowlege could help him in some way. I didn't think to ignore him, but instead to tell him why we ourselves don't indulge. And what my honest and emotional perceptions on the subject are, that is to say, how I view it. Don't throw that back in my face.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

TNT said:

Being married or having a girlfriend/boyfriend does not make you a better or more adjusted person than someone who is single. I just don't understand what's so wrong with someone choosing to remain single and wanting to have an adventurous sex life that includes group sex.

 

Yes, single men (and women) probably can and do have an easier time getting laid in the vanilla world but...if their kink/preference/whatever you want to call it leans toward group sex where do they go in the vanilla world to find that? To me, it seems that swinging is the perfect answer for those who like being single but enjoy group sex.

 

There's nothing wrong with being single (we all started out that way) or with enjoying group sex (don't we all?). I think what Chicup was saying was that there's something about single males that only want to have sex with other men's wives that's freaky. If that's true, I understand where he's coming from because I feel the same way.

 

I got this from the internet -

 

"Among many mammalian species, the dominant male, or alpha male, is the only one supposed to breed and have sexual intercourse. Lower-ranking males can occasionally sneak in and themselves gain access to females. But it's a forbidden act, and will likely be punished severely by the dominant male, if it comes to his attention."

 

Maybe that's why so many husbands feel the way they do about single males in the lifestyle, they consider single males as "sneakers" of "lower ranking" and so they drive them out. I haven't heard of any being punished severely, except on internet message boards.

 

I would probably be ok with an MFM in certain circumstances, but not with a guy who was looking for one, if that makes any sense.

[NumbskullsX2 24]

JustAskJulie said:

2 reasons...

 

1. They don't want a relationship. They enjoy NSA sex (specifically group sex) and don't want a relationship, maybe they've been married and divorced (or widowed) and just aren't ready to jump back into a relationships again.

Most of our single friends aren't swingers but that doesn't keep them from having as much (or as little) sex as they want. The guys we know who aren't having as much sex as they want wouldn't do any better in a swing club. The women I know could obviously get sex, but I don't think NSA sex is what they're looking for. (if it is, I know some biker bars...)

 

I was pretty wild as a teenager, but if I were ever single again, I wouldn't go near this lifestyle unless it was with somebody I was in a relationship with.

[rpu3 630]

I should cool down, and remember that as insulted as I was by your sanctimonious reply, perhaps single guys who want to swing would be insulted by what I had written.

 

Obviously I don't think single guys hope to swing with the intent of meeting a potential bride or going a'courtin' for a gal. That makes very little sense. And since you seem to want to take this from a general discussion (about the SM's who had contacted us) to a personal one, I should say it's foolish of you to interpret what I said in the opposite way.

 

It seems like the single guys we've communicated with (so far, at least) are not just looking for NSA sex, they are desperate for any sort of sex. That makes it seem to me as if they want to take the easy way out; "I haven't gotten laid lately, and I don't have a girl, so I'll use yours."

 

The OP may be a great guy. Maybe if we met him at a vanilla party, my wife would be dragging him into a room. I like her to have fun; she's my best friend, and seeing her have fun is fun for me. But when we go online, searching, we are searching for someone both of us can have fun with.

 

The OP wanted to know why SMs in general were being shut out. Maybe he feels that knowlege could help him in some way. I didn't think to ignore him, but instead to tell him why we ourselves don't indulge. And what my honest and emotional perceptions on the subject are, that is to say, how I view it. Don't throw that back in my face.

 

It's a public board. As such, you have the right to express your opinion and to put it out there as you see fit. I, in turn, have the same right.

 

It's not sanctimonious, nor is it throwing it in your face if I disagree with you, or use YOUR words as a basis of a post. I have the same right that you take for yourself and as you so eloquently said to say "...what my honest and emotional perceptions on the subject are, that is to say, how I view it. "

 

Clearly, my viewpoint and interpretation regarding the various postings and about single men differs from yours. Sanctimonious or not, or however else you'd like to classify it (which is also your right, and also one I can differ with), I can and will put what I think out there.

 

Single, coupled, swinger, vanilla: not everyone gets what we do and why we do it, we have differing opinions and we all have the capability to be a jerk. Single male status has nothing to do with that and never will and I'll continue to say that as it makes sense to do so.

[TwoLittleBirds 23]

^ That is true. The same thing I asked for myself (let me say what I feel) is what I was knocking you for; sorry I was being hypocritical when it came to respecting your same right. ^

[lovinher 505]

I've used this parallel before, but imagine, if you will, that a person (male or female) were to show up at a Porsche Club's driving event saying, "I don't have a Porsche, but I'm really interested in them, and would love to drive yours. It's such a beauty! I'm a really good driver! I can make your car do things you have never been able to do!"

 

"Whaddaya mean,'No.' You're not fair to non-owners of Porsches! You must be a bigot

 

 

You might have a shot at riding my wife if I can ride yours, but you will never ride by bike ...unless I can ride yours.

 

There will always be swinging as long as there are couples, and there will still be swinging if there were no singles. In other words, without couples, singles would have to find another single or become a couple if they wanted to get laid, or just stay single. Without couples, what would singles call it? It's not swinging without couples, and without couples, singles cannot be swingers.

 

Got it?

 

Here's to equal rights for people who want to drive their neighbor's Porsch.

 

[VegasLee 1,486]

lovinher said:

Without couples, what would singles call it? It's not swinging without couples, and without couples, singles cannot be swingers.

 

Got it?

 

When swinging "started" it was defined as "Recreational sex between consenting adults." Thus, "Swinging Singles"

 

Until the "lifestyle" came along there was no definition that included couples.

 

Swinging was doing just fine without it being defined as something for "couples" for many years thank you....

 

I got it!

[Chicup 41]

VegasLee said:

When swinging "started" it was defined as "Recreational sex between consenting adults." Thus, "Swinging Singles"

 

Until the "lifestyle" came along there was no definition that included couples.

 

Swinging was doing just fine without it being defined as something for "couples" for many years thank you....

 

I got it!

 

And here I thought couples swinging started back in the 50's.

 

Key parties, wife swapping, whatever, it has been around as a couples activity as well.

 

A swingers party as you define sounds more like well, a party with singles.

[lovinher 505]

When swinging "started" it was defined as "Recreational sex between consenting adults." Thus, "Swinging Singles"

 

Until the "lifestyle" came along there was no definition that included couples.

 

Swinging was doing just fine without it being defined as something for "couples" for many years thank you....

 

I got it!

 

Noooooo, I don't think you did. I was trying to be a bit confusing, not a smart ass (that time). I guess it worked.

 

Ok, so it wasn't funny.

 

So what would the "lifestyle" be called without couples?

Can you call it swinging without couples?

What would the lifestyle be called without singles?

Can you call it swinging without singles?

What would you call a group of singles fucking other singles who are essentially strangers? What would that activity be called?

 

I have no problem with singles at all. What I do have a problem with is an attitude of entitlement.

 

I don't claim to know anywhere near as much as you Lee. I am just stating my opinion as part of a couple, as are you. But my questions are valid.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

NumbskullsX2 said:

There's nothing wrong with being single (we all started out that way) or with enjoying group sex (don't we all?). I think what Chicup was saying was that there's something about single males that only want to have sex with other men's wives that's freaky.

 

The emphasis to "only" is ours.

 

What makes you assume that these single men look upon other men's wives as their only source of sex? In addition to their lifestyle activities, most of the swinging single men we know also date. Regardless, we can understand the appeal of swinging with couples because it's a pure source of NSA sex for single men. The "are-we-dating-or-not" question always seems to loom over heterosexual relationships in the vanilla world, so NSA sex is much harder to obtain in that world.

[TNT 1,155]

Alura said:

I've used this parallel before, but imagine, if you will, that a person (male or female) were to show up at a Porsche Club's driving event saying, "I don't have a Porsche, but I'm really interested in them, and would love to drive yours. It's such a beauty! I'm a really good driver! I can make your car do things you have never been able to do!"

 

"Whaddaya mean,'No.' You're not fair to non-owners of Porsches! You must be a bigot!"

 

No thank you, Sir. We're interested in couples.

 

Mr. Alura

 

But I, sir, am competing in the 24 Hours of Daytona. I will need a relief driver and we will need to work together like a finely tuned team, sliding in and out of the drivers seat to keep running hard. The one not driving will be responsible for support duties such as keeping the engine lubricated.

 

Ted

[NumbskullsX2 24]

TNT said:

But I, sir, am competing in the 24 Hours of Daytona. I will need a relief driver and we will need to work together like a finely tuned team, sliding in and out of the drivers seat to keep running hard. The one not driving will be responsible for support duties such as keeping the engine lubricated.

 

If your name is Fittipaldi, Ernhardt, or Andretti, and you arrived at the track by helicopter, you'll probably find a ride. If your name is "Durwood G. Assblaster" and you arrived by city bus, you probably wasted your fare.

 

I might let Hurley Heywood lap my Porsche (if I still had one) but we'd make sure he was wearing a driving suit.

[TNT 1,155]

Then again, depending on the quality of your ride you might be lucky to get Dick Trickle in it.

[jojochawda 45]

I'd like to chip in my two coins in this topic.

 

I am a single guy and i love to swing. Not because I can't get a girl, I am fat, can't get it up, or am there to steal your wife. NO, not at all.

I assure you, I can get girls, I am fit to a degree, and love my hard-on.

 

BUT WHY THIS LIFESTYLE.

 

Because I love group sex more then plain vanilla, and I have been slapped many a times, asking a girl if we could get into a threesome. I do it, because that's where my kink lies. so while i am still searching for a lady, who could entertain this idea,

 

I am single.

 

Other couples may hate this, and some don't. it doesn't effect me one bit because, I am not desperate. I don't want your wife as my own, all I desire is to fulfill my desires when opportunity knocks. (period).

[VegasLee 1,486]

jojochawda said:

all I desire is to fulfill my desires when opportunity knocks. (period).

 

Petty much the same reason 99.9% of couples are in this Lifestyle. Nothing wrong with that!